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Witness

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  1. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?   
    “Then the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders of the people assembled at the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas, 4 and plotted to take Jesus by trickery and kill Him.”  Matt 26:3,4
    Apokteinō – “kill”
    ἀποκτείνω apokteínō, ap-ok-ti'-no; from G575 and κτείνω kteínō (to slay); to kill outright; figuratively, to destroy:—put to death, kill, slay.
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    “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.”  John 8:44
    Anthrōpoktonos – “murderer”
    ἀνθρωποκτόνος anthrōpoktónos, anth-ro-pok-ton'-os; from G444 and κτείνω kteínō(to kill); a manslayer:—murderer. Compare G5406.
    G5406  φονεύς phoneús, fon-yooce'; from G5408; a murderer (always of criminal (or at least intentional) homicide; which G443 does not necessarily imply; while G4607 is a special term for a public bandit):—murderer.
    Sounds like premeditated murder.
    “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you  have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death”  Act 2:22,23 
    Anaireō – “put to death”
    - ἀναιρέω anairéō, an-ahee-reh'-o; from G303 and (the active of) G138; to take up, i.e. adopt; by implication, to take away (violently), i.e. abolish, murder:—put to death, kill, slay, take away, take up.
     
    But we remember:
     “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”  John 10:17,18
     
     
     
  2. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in GRAND JURY INVESTIGATORS ARE 'DEAD SERIOUS'   
    Yes, I do. 🙂 
    I understand that the only organization which the Father approves of, is the one built on Christ, the chief cornerstone.  Isa 43:10,21; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; Heb 11:10; Rev 21:23; 22:5; Acts 7:48; Rom 8:9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 4:4
    I understand that Jesus began ruling in the first century and that the symbolic “thousand years” is over, and the Great Tribulation/Armageddon is here.  Ps 110:1,2; 1 Cor 15;24-28
    I understand that the WT is Satan's end time masterpiece, used to deceive the "remaining ones of the woman's seed". Gen 3:15; Dan 11:10; Rev 12:17,15; Matt 24:24; Acts 20:29; Col 2:8; Rev 13:10; 20:7-9
    I understand that the elder body is the “man of lawlessness” sitting in the Temple of God, “where it does not belong”.  Mark 13:14; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2; 1 Pet 2:5; Eph 2:21; 2 Cor 6:16; 1 Cor 3:16,17
    I understand that Jesus Christ, and the anointed as a “new creation” will “inherit the earth” as Abraham’s offspring, along with all of God’s children.  Gen 28:13,14; Ps 2:8; Col 1:16; Rom 4:13; Gal 3:16
    I understand the anointed “144,000” are both human and spirit. 2 Cor 5:17; 1 Cor 15:44; 1 Pet 1:23; John 3:5; 1 Cor 15:50; Rev 21:17
    I understand that every JW who truly desires to worship God in spirit and truth, should LEAVE the organization behind, including one’s “garment”/identity and “possessions”/teachings.  Matt 24:15-18; Luke 17:31-37; Rev 18:4-8
     
    Do you believe that the gift of "truth” from the Father and Christ, includes false and failed teachings? 
    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."  James 1:17
    It is interesting that this scripture uses the phrase, "shifting shadows."  Darkness is always darkness.  Teachings that were never truth to begin with, can never be viewed as "light". "New light" is none other than a shifting shadow.  
     
    https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2018/01/armageddon.html
     
     
     
  3. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?   
    Just some comparisons for anyone interested:
    1 Sam 17:8-10
    Goliath stood and shouted to the ranks of Israel, “Why do you come out and line up for battle? Am I not a Philistine, and are you not the servants of Saul? Choose a man and have him come down to me. 9 If he is able to fight and kill me, we will become your subjects; but if I overcome him and kill him, you will become our subjects and serve us.” 10 Then the Philistine said, “This day I defy the armies of Israel! Give me a man and let us fight each other.”
    Nakah – “kill”
    נָכָה nâkâh, naw-kaw'; a primitive root; to strike (lightly or severely, literally or figuratively):—beat, cast forth, clap, give (wounds), × go forward, × indeed, kill, make (slaughter), murderer, punish, slaughter, slay(-er, -ing), smite(-r, -ing), strike, be stricken, (give) stripes, × surely, wound.
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    “They kill the widow and the resident alien and murder the fatherless.” Ps 94:6
    Harag – “kill”
    ג hârag, haw-rag'; a primitive root; to smite with deadly intent:—destroy, out of hand, kill, murder(-er), put to (death), make (slaughter), slay(-er), × surely.
    Ratsach – “murder”
    רָצַח râtsach, raw-tsakh'; a primitive root; properly, to dash in pieces, i.e. kill (a human being), especially to murder:—put to death, kill, (man-) slay(-er), murder(-er).
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     Hurriedly he called to his armor-bearer, “Draw your sword and kill me, so that they can’t say, ‘A woman killed him.’” So his servant ran him through, and he died.  Judges 9:54
    Muwth – “kill”
    מוּת mûwth, mooth; a primitive root; to die (literally or figuratively); causatively, to kill:—× at all, × crying, (be) dead (body, man, one), (put to, worthy of) death, destroy(-er), (cause to, be like to, must) die, kill, necro(-mancer), × must needs, slay, × surely, × very suddenly, × in (no) wise.
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    “You desire and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and wage war. You do not have because you do not ask.”  James 4:2
    Phoneuō - “murder”
    φονεύω phoneúō, fon-yoo'-o; from G5406; to be a murderer (of):—kill, do murder, slay.
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    “Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city,”  Matt 23:34
    Apokteinō – “kill”
     †ἀποκτείνω apokteínō, ap-ok-ti'-no; from G575 and κτείνω kteínō (to slay); to kill outright; figuratively, to destroy:—put to death, kill, slay.
     
  4. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?   
    Just some comparisons for anyone interested:
    1 Sam 17:8-10
    Goliath stood and shouted to the ranks of Israel, “Why do you come out and line up for battle? Am I not a Philistine, and are you not the servants of Saul? Choose a man and have him come down to me. 9 If he is able to fight and kill me, we will become your subjects; but if I overcome him and kill him, you will become our subjects and serve us.” 10 Then the Philistine said, “This day I defy the armies of Israel! Give me a man and let us fight each other.”
    Nakah – “kill”
    נָכָה nâkâh, naw-kaw'; a primitive root; to strike (lightly or severely, literally or figuratively):—beat, cast forth, clap, give (wounds), × go forward, × indeed, kill, make (slaughter), murderer, punish, slaughter, slay(-er, -ing), smite(-r, -ing), strike, be stricken, (give) stripes, × surely, wound.
    ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
    “They kill the widow and the resident alien and murder the fatherless.” Ps 94:6
    Harag – “kill”
    ג hârag, haw-rag'; a primitive root; to smite with deadly intent:—destroy, out of hand, kill, murder(-er), put to (death), make (slaughter), slay(-er), × surely.
    Ratsach – “murder”
    רָצַח râtsach, raw-tsakh'; a primitive root; properly, to dash in pieces, i.e. kill (a human being), especially to murder:—put to death, kill, (man-) slay(-er), murder(-er).
    ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
     Hurriedly he called to his armor-bearer, “Draw your sword and kill me, so that they can’t say, ‘A woman killed him.’” So his servant ran him through, and he died.  Judges 9:54
    Muwth – “kill”
    מוּת mûwth, mooth; a primitive root; to die (literally or figuratively); causatively, to kill:—× at all, × crying, (be) dead (body, man, one), (put to, worthy of) death, destroy(-er), (cause to, be like to, must) die, kill, necro(-mancer), × must needs, slay, × surely, × very suddenly, × in (no) wise.
    ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` 
    “You desire and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and wage war. You do not have because you do not ask.”  James 4:2
    Phoneuō - “murder”
    φονεύω phoneúō, fon-yoo'-o; from G5406; to be a murderer (of):—kill, do murder, slay.
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    “Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city,”  Matt 23:34
    Apokteinō – “kill”
     †ἀποκτείνω apokteínō, ap-ok-ti'-no; from G575 and κτείνω kteínō (to slay); to kill outright; figuratively, to destroy:—put to death, kill, slay.
     
  5. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in GRAND JURY INVESTIGATORS ARE 'DEAD SERIOUS'   
    It’s so hard for me to just give short sentences as answers.  The entire Bible prophesy is coming to a head. I realize now how little I knew of the anointed role while in the WT.  They are spoon fed lies about themselves, and only enough to not question what they should be doing.   
    We see what happens in organizations, how they are influenced by the world of Satan, and men with their additional rules and regulations.   If we were meant to have an earthly visible organization, then Jesus would have begun establishing it when he was on earth.  ( Ps 127:1a) As the WT has done, each material building is taught as “God’s house”, which I believe is idolatry.   When I read the account Stephen gave before he was stoned to death (Acts 7:44-53), it’s clear to me that Stephen was trying to get across the acceptance of Christ as the new Temple built with living stones, and God’s dwelling/house.  (John 2:19-22; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22)   In his speech, he mentioned the tabernacle in the wilderness where God’s Spirit dwelled, and the temple Solomon built. He then quoted Isa 66:1,2 saying to the Jews how “stiff-necked” they were, for rejecting the chief cornerstone of the new temple/foundation in Christ and the apostles.  This was the temple, house of God, that He meant would be built, when speaking to David so many years before.  (2 Sam 7:1-16)
      When Jesus said we will worship in the spirit and the truth, I believe he didn’t mean through any earthly organization/temple/solid entity. (John 4:21) True believers of Christ realized this.  True anointed “living stones” who carried truth in their heart by the Spirit, that Christ sent over the last 2,000 years, would have taught the same.  (John 13:20; 14:15-17)  The WT organization was formed when there was a remarkable surge of what some consider to be a spiritual enlightenment – a “second great awakening”.  Mormonism, Baptists, Methodism, Seventh Day Adventist, Bible Students/Watchtower, all had their beginning around the same time.  Do any of the them have complete truth?  And why was it at generally the same time period, that there was there such an influx of religions beliefs?  Who was behind the establishment of so many paths diverging from the “sincerity and the purity of devotion to Christ”? (Lexham 2 Cor 11:3)  I believe it is Satan’s doing. (2 Pet 2:1-3)
    The only “organization” that God approves is the “administration” within the anointed Body. (1 Cor chapt 12; Eph 1:3-11)  You seem to be keenly aware of this Body and the circumstances they face in the organization.  In the last days, the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed”/anointed are deceived by Satan’s ruse . (Rev 12:17; 2 Thess 2:1-4,8-12;Rev 13:4; Amos 3:5)  “Deceived” is a primary word that the organization fails to tell the anointed ones, or that they even notice. As most JWs believe, how can anyone be deceived if they are safe in the WT? (1 Thess 5:1-5)  However, we see the lies in the organization where the remaining anointed reside. Lies are deception that lead one down the wrong road. Who can deny that?  Only faithful JWs do. (2 Cor 4:1-6)    We also see that there is basic truth that led them in. It would be teachings of truth, that an anointed would recognize through the Holy Spirit poured into their heart. (Rom 5:5; 1 John 2:27)   Once in, it is very difficult to get out without losing everything.  All of this was prophesied to occur in the last days.  (Matt 24:24; Col 2:8; Rev 2:20; 13:10) It is a spiritual captivity that “tramples” down the anointed. (Matt 24:15,16; Mark 13:14; Rev 11:1-3)   When rejecting lies, turning to Christ, we are persecuted by our own spiritual “brothers and sisters” and family for doing so.  (Luke 12:53; Matt 5:10,11)
    Daniel called the fourth beast that God’s people under covenant must face, as “different”. (Dan 7:19) I said that one of the Beasts of Rev 13 is a false prophet, the GB, (Rev 13:11), and the “Wild Beast” is the organization. (Rev 13:1) (Watchtower calls it "Satan's organization")  I also used Rev 12:17 above, which states that the “dragon” “makes war” with the remaining ones.  Notice what all of them accomplish together:
     13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
    The “kings of the earth” are Jesus’ kings/priests.  Rev 1:5; 5:9,10   They are gathered in the WT….for the great day of God Almighty = Armageddon! (Luke 22:31; Rev 2:10)  Armageddon is based on DECEIT that comes out of the mouths of the “dragon” and the two Beasts - the GB, and the organization it directs. (Luke 21:8; Rev 13:12) The battle is being fought now, the exposure of truth against the teachings of lies; and it involves the anointed “kings of the earth”, and those with them.  
    That is the summation of Armageddon, fought in the “valley of decision” (Joel 3:14); kings of the earth who transgressed their covenant in Christ, battle against faithful kings of the earth who return to Christ in repentance for their idolatry and believing lies. (Eph 5:11-14) The battle ensues by what comes out of each anointed one’s mouth – truth or lies.    All whose lives have been touched by the WT, make the decision -  the choice to go with, which results in each one’s judgment before Christ.  (Matt 7:21-23)  More than ever before, we see an exodus from the organization for various reasons, selfish ones, or the pursuit of truth.  Jesus does not disappoint those who are sincere about finding truth.  (Matt 22:1-14)  
    The WT utilizes “signs and wonders” that are hard for the average JW to perceive as deception.  (2 Thess 2:9)  Yet, it is the deception – the ruse - against the anointed in the last days. (Rev 13:13,14, 5,7)   The Watchtower has twisted the timing of events to mislead the anointed and those with them.  The symbolic “thousand year” reign of Christ has ended. 
    Rev 20:7-10 speaks again of the “gathering” of the saints for the “battle”, the same battle we see in Rev 16:13,14.  Gog/Magog ARE the Beasts. 
    So, Satan has been let loose from the abyss to deceive the last of the anointed before the Kingdom arrives.  This deception or power is “different” – the gradual development of an organization that causes destruction.  It becomes more apparent with each passing day.  Even the world can see its destructive force; but its reason behind its purpose is only understood by those who discern the “trampling” down of the anointed – the “Gentile” elder body as the “disgusting thing standing in the temple of God.  (Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3)
    Judgment day began when Jesus came to earth. (Luke 12:51; John 3:18) Each person is judged during their lifetime, according to their choices, not during a thousand years after Armageddon.    Armageddon is the culmination of judgment against the remaining ones and those with them.  God judges the world, Jesus Christ and his foundation “stones” judge the anointed and those in the organization – his kings of the earth, and the nations with them.  (1 Cor 5:13; 1 Pet 4:17; Eph 2:19,20) Jesus’ words about the Great Tribulation experienced because of the two beasts, correlates with Daniel’s use of “different” – “For at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not happened from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will happen.  And unless those days had been shortened, no human being would be saved.  But for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened.”  (Matt 24:21,22)  You are feeling this “different” tribulation or sifting, and you are caught in the middle of this battle of truth against lies.  The Great Tribulation is a result of Armageddon. 
    So, Satan doesn’t want to lose his kingdom.  His “different” plan during these last days is to deceive the anointed into idolatry to an organization, and the dual, powerful “trampling” rule of men over them.  (Matt 24:48-51; Rev 9:1-6; 8:10,11; 9)
     
    I believe Satan is the Destroyer.  What he does now or who he destroys before “death” is destroyed waits to be seen.  Yes, the earth will be cleansed of evil.  When he is gone, so is wickedness. (Isa 33:1; 1 Cor 15:24-26; Rev 21:1-4)
     
    I believe in a family of the children of God - the seed of Abraham.   There are the “firstfruits” “born” to spirit life now, with a job to do. (Rom 8:16,17; James 1:18) For the faithful refined anointed ones, they will be Christ’s Bride, fulfilling the “New Covenant” as a new creation – both spirit and human. (Matt 25:1-13; 2 Cor 5:17; Gal 4:26)  Children will be “born” from this union, this fulfilled promise of life. (John 13:20; Rev 22:17;  Those children make up the rest of the children of God, “born” in spirit. (John 6:63)  At that time, the “144,000” priesthood will serve God, Jesus and the future children on the earth. (Rom 8:14; Rev 22:2)  The early priesthood assigned by God was to teach the people of Israel God’s laws.  (Mal 2:7) The heavenly priesthood will do the same, and whatever else they are assigned to do as they serve Christ on the earth, and in heaven. Who knows what God will ask of His future children in the Kingdom.  But for now, he is refining his priests to serve in the spiritual Temple built with the faithful “144,000” (1 Pet 2:5,9)    It will be accomplished by the time the organization goes down. (Zech 4:7; Rev 18:21; 8:8; Dan 2:34; 7:26,27)
    Jesus was the first of Abraham’s promised seed to inherit the earth:
     Now Jacob went out from Beersheba and went toward Haran. 11 So he came to a certain place and stayed there all night, because the sun had set. And he took one of the stones of that place and put it at his head, and he lay down in that place to sleep. 12 Then he dreamed, and behold, a ladder was set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.
    13 And behold, the Lord stood above it and said: “I am the Lord God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and your descendants.
    4 Also your descendants shall be as the dust of the earth; you shall spread abroad to the west and the east, to the north and the south; and in you and in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed. 15 Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have spoken to you.”
    16 Then Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, “Surely the Lord is in this place, and I did not know it.” 17 And he was afraid and said, “How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven!”  Gen 28:10-17
    John 1:51 - He then added, “Very truly I tell you, you will see ‘heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on’ the Son of Man.”
    Angels are messengers, (see the Greek meaning for “angel”), priests are messengers. Mal 2:7  Jesus shares his inheritance of the earth with the “144,000”/anointed/angel messengers.  They won’t be stuck in heaven as the WT portrays it,  but will be both on earth and in heaven.  As “children of a promise” they will inherit the earth.  Rom 9:8; Gal 4:28
    The  vision in Genesis was to Jacob – generally, to Israel.  During the last days, an “Elijah” comes to restore “Jacob” OUTSIDE of the organization.  It is happening now. (Nah 2:2; Isa 49:6; Mal 3:1-4; 4:5; Mark 9:12; Rev 11:3)
    We are at another point where a “voice” is calling, “Prepare the way of the Lord in the wilderness; make a straight highway for our God in the desert.”  Isa 40:3
    Isa 44:24-28; Isa 2:1-5
    I work with other anointed and those not anointed, spreading truth to "Israel", those "nations" residing with them, as well as those "leaving the (apostate) city".  Matt 22:8-10
    "When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."  Matt 10:23
    Rev 18:4-8
    Thus says the Lord,
    The Holy One of Israel, and his Maker:
    “Ask Me of things to come concerning My sons;
    And concerning the work of My hands, you command Me.
     I have made the earth,
    And created man on it.
    I—My hands—stretched out the heavens,
    And all their host I have commanded.
    I have raised him up in righteousness,
    And I will direct all his ways;("make all his ways straight")
    He shall build My city
    And let My exiles go free,
    Not for price nor reward,”
    Says the Lord of hosts.  Isa 45:11-13
    "Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.  Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God."  Rev 21:1-3
    That is, the only true "organization" that God approves. 
     
     
     
     
     
  6. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?   
    What does the term "loyal to jehovah" entail?
  7. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?   
    God adopted Israel as His people. (Ezek chapter 16)   He trained them, gave them commandments that were to be practiced among them. For any foreigner who joined them, He demanded that they be protected, even if His own people turned wicked.  (Deut 27:19; Ps 146:9)  As far back as Abel, were faithful ones whose hearts were inclined to listen to God.  Mankind in general lived debauched lives, murdering one another, were steeped in idolatry, even sacrificing their children to Baal.   God knows each heart’s intentions, and He knows those who desire to be loyal to Him. (1 Kings 8:39; 1 Sam 16:7; Prov 21:2; 2 Chron 16:9)    All mankind, since the beginning, have free will to choose our path in this physical life – one of life/light, or one of death/darkness. (Deut 30:19; 1 John 1:5; 2:8)  When God’s people fought against the nations, can we be assured that any whose hearts were disposed to know God, wouldn’t be protected from losing their life? (Deut 21:1-9)   And if an innocent one was killed during battle, wouldn’t they be remembered in the resurrection to eternal life?   Abraham was worried about those in Sodom and Gomorrah, unsure that the innocent, righteous ones would be saved; and he was assured that they would, yet only Lot and family were found worthy of being saved.   Gen 18:16-32
    It seems to me that the circumstances of murder among God’s people was His priority, since He gave them guidelines that they regularly transgressed.    Once Jesus came, murder among his people was still the focus in the Bible.  Today, God’s “Israel” and those with them, are judged by Jesus' teachings.  For anyone on the earth who desires to serve God and Christ in righteousness, I personally feel comfort in leaving their judgment to the one who knows their heart’s intentions.  If the faithful innocent are murdered, the murderer will pay.  The innocent will receive eternal life. 
    The act of shedding another’s blood, even among those nations who fought against Israel, was not taken lightly by God. To David, He said:
    but the word of the Lord came to me, saying, ‘You have shed much blood and have made great wars; you shall not build a house for My name, because you have shed much blood on the earth in My sight.  1 Chron 22:8 (Num 35:33,34)
    Among his people, Jesus said:
    3 “Snakes! Brood of vipers! How can you escape being condemned to hell? (“Gehenna”)  34 This is why I am sending you prophets, sages, and scribes. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 So all the righteous blood shed on the earth will be charged to you, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all these things will come on this generation.”   Matt 23:33-36
    The apostle John made it clear that hating one’s brother was compared to murder. 
    “In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.  1 John 3:10-12
    13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.”  1 John 3:13-15
    The world John was speaking of was the world that he removed himself from – the Pharisaical system of belief.  They hated Christ and those who followed him.  They are, according to these scriptures, murderers. 
    “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.”  John 15:18-19 
    It wasn’t the entire world of mankind that hated Jesus, it was the Jewish system of his day. 
    Under today’s “Pharisaical” arrangement, who commits spiritual murder?  The GB and those who carry it out.  (John 16:2,3; Rev 13:15; 11:3,7) They are just as responsible for shedding “spiritual” blood through their act of disfellowshipping, as the Pharisees were for shedding physical blood of those who followed Christ.
    Along with disfellowshipping/”killing” on the basis of “sins not leading to death”, it is downplayed among JWs, that the organization fully rejects those who reject their lies.  It is downplayed, that those who realize they need to obey Christ rather than men, are considered “wicked”.    (1 John 5:16,17) 
    “But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. 12 Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 13 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.”  Mark 13:11-13
    Watchtower 1961 Jul 15 p.420
    "Jesus encouraged his followers to love their enemies, but God's Word also says to "hate what is bad." When a person persists in a way of badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of his make-up, then in order to hate what is bad a Christian must hate the person with whom the badness is inseparably linked." 
    Wow.  They’ve gone beyond the words of Christ.  Jesus didn’t just “encourage” it, he commanded his followers to love their enemies.  Matt 5:43,44; Matt 7:26,27
    Luke 21:12,17 put it this way...
    "But before all this, they will seize you and persecute you. They will hand you over to synagogues and put you in prison (Luke21:24; Rev.13:10,7; Col.2:8), and you will be brought before kings (Rev.9:7) and governors ("Governing Body" Mark10:42-45), and all on account of my name...Everyone will hate you because of me." (1John4:20; 2:11) (John13:34-35; Matt.25:37-40,41-46) (Matt.24:11-13)
    I would be more concerned with the murderous intentions of the organization, that obviously “makes war” with God’s people who reject their “Jewish” system.  God does consider warfare, murder.   
    “Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. Rev 13:1  
    “It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.”  Rev 13:7
    “Keep on the Watch” p. 16,17  - “Does your worship truly unite you with fellow worshipers of all nations, all races, all languages? 
    Rev 18:24 - And in her (Rev 13:11; 17:5) was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.”
     
     https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/01/symbolic-death-by-means-of-world.html
     
     
     
  8. Thanks
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Hundreds of child abuse payments held up   
    https://www.nationalredress.gov.au/support/explore
    i am receiving newsletter about this issue, and as we see JWorg has no intention to join.
     
     
    Institutions named in the Royal Commission that have not yet joined the Scheme* Intending to join Date expecting to join (calendar year) Hunter Aboriginal Children’s Services (HACS)     Interchange Shoalhaven     Jehovah’s Witnesses     Presbyterian Church NSW & ACT Intending to join First quarter of 2020 Presbyterian Church TAS     Presbyterian Church VIC Intending to join First quarter of 2020 Presbyterian Church WA     RG Dance Pty Ltd     Satyanada Yoga Ashram     Seventh-Day Adventist Intending to join First quarter of 2020
  9. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Hundreds of child abuse payments held up   
    You play the same old record but you have no proof at all. 
    Tom you do not know who has or is committing the abuse in JW Org. 
    1. Because it is hidden in congregations around the Earth
    2. Because the GB / Lawyers are still hiding that 23 year American JW Database. 
    So how can you know Tom ?
    You just make it up as you go along, and most times it's just to promote your own books. 
    Very selfish Tom. 
     
  10. Thanks
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Ex - Elder's view on Child Sexual Abuse in JW Org.   
    It seems it will never ever go away.
    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/jehovahs-witnesses-sexual-abuse-wales-17700382
     
    Ex-Jehovah's Witness elder describes how he was abused by fellow worshipper as a boy
    John Viney was a church elder when his own daughter revealed she had been assaulted by her uncle. Now the 67-year-old has described how he himself was systematically abused for five years.
     
  11. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in GRAND JURY INVESTIGATORS ARE 'DEAD SERIOUS'   
    It’s so hard for me to just give short sentences as answers.  The entire Bible prophesy is coming to a head. I realize now how little I knew of the anointed role while in the WT.  They are spoon fed lies about themselves, and only enough to not question what they should be doing.   
    We see what happens in organizations, how they are influenced by the world of Satan, and men with their additional rules and regulations.   If we were meant to have an earthly visible organization, then Jesus would have begun establishing it when he was on earth.  ( Ps 127:1a) As the WT has done, each material building is taught as “God’s house”, which I believe is idolatry.   When I read the account Stephen gave before he was stoned to death (Acts 7:44-53), it’s clear to me that Stephen was trying to get across the acceptance of Christ as the new Temple built with living stones, and God’s dwelling/house.  (John 2:19-22; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22)   In his speech, he mentioned the tabernacle in the wilderness where God’s Spirit dwelled, and the temple Solomon built. He then quoted Isa 66:1,2 saying to the Jews how “stiff-necked” they were, for rejecting the chief cornerstone of the new temple/foundation in Christ and the apostles.  This was the temple, house of God, that He meant would be built, when speaking to David so many years before.  (2 Sam 7:1-16)
      When Jesus said we will worship in the spirit and the truth, I believe he didn’t mean through any earthly organization/temple/solid entity. (John 4:21) True believers of Christ realized this.  True anointed “living stones” who carried truth in their heart by the Spirit, that Christ sent over the last 2,000 years, would have taught the same.  (John 13:20; 14:15-17)  The WT organization was formed when there was a remarkable surge of what some consider to be a spiritual enlightenment – a “second great awakening”.  Mormonism, Baptists, Methodism, Seventh Day Adventist, Bible Students/Watchtower, all had their beginning around the same time.  Do any of the them have complete truth?  And why was it at generally the same time period, that there was there such an influx of religions beliefs?  Who was behind the establishment of so many paths diverging from the “sincerity and the purity of devotion to Christ”? (Lexham 2 Cor 11:3)  I believe it is Satan’s doing. (2 Pet 2:1-3)
    The only “organization” that God approves is the “administration” within the anointed Body. (1 Cor chapt 12; Eph 1:3-11)  You seem to be keenly aware of this Body and the circumstances they face in the organization.  In the last days, the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed”/anointed are deceived by Satan’s ruse . (Rev 12:17; 2 Thess 2:1-4,8-12;Rev 13:4; Amos 3:5)  “Deceived” is a primary word that the organization fails to tell the anointed ones, or that they even notice. As most JWs believe, how can anyone be deceived if they are safe in the WT? (1 Thess 5:1-5)  However, we see the lies in the organization where the remaining anointed reside. Lies are deception that lead one down the wrong road. Who can deny that?  Only faithful JWs do. (2 Cor 4:1-6)    We also see that there is basic truth that led them in. It would be teachings of truth, that an anointed would recognize through the Holy Spirit poured into their heart. (Rom 5:5; 1 John 2:27)   Once in, it is very difficult to get out without losing everything.  All of this was prophesied to occur in the last days.  (Matt 24:24; Col 2:8; Rev 2:20; 13:10) It is a spiritual captivity that “tramples” down the anointed. (Matt 24:15,16; Mark 13:14; Rev 11:1-3)   When rejecting lies, turning to Christ, we are persecuted by our own spiritual “brothers and sisters” and family for doing so.  (Luke 12:53; Matt 5:10,11)
    Daniel called the fourth beast that God’s people under covenant must face, as “different”. (Dan 7:19) I said that one of the Beasts of Rev 13 is a false prophet, the GB, (Rev 13:11), and the “Wild Beast” is the organization. (Rev 13:1) (Watchtower calls it "Satan's organization")  I also used Rev 12:17 above, which states that the “dragon” “makes war” with the remaining ones.  Notice what all of them accomplish together:
     13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
    The “kings of the earth” are Jesus’ kings/priests.  Rev 1:5; 5:9,10   They are gathered in the WT….for the great day of God Almighty = Armageddon! (Luke 22:31; Rev 2:10)  Armageddon is based on DECEIT that comes out of the mouths of the “dragon” and the two Beasts - the GB, and the organization it directs. (Luke 21:8; Rev 13:12) The battle is being fought now, the exposure of truth against the teachings of lies; and it involves the anointed “kings of the earth”, and those with them.  
    That is the summation of Armageddon, fought in the “valley of decision” (Joel 3:14); kings of the earth who transgressed their covenant in Christ, battle against faithful kings of the earth who return to Christ in repentance for their idolatry and believing lies. (Eph 5:11-14) The battle ensues by what comes out of each anointed one’s mouth – truth or lies.    All whose lives have been touched by the WT, make the decision -  the choice to go with, which results in each one’s judgment before Christ.  (Matt 7:21-23)  More than ever before, we see an exodus from the organization for various reasons, selfish ones, or the pursuit of truth.  Jesus does not disappoint those who are sincere about finding truth.  (Matt 22:1-14)  
    The WT utilizes “signs and wonders” that are hard for the average JW to perceive as deception.  (2 Thess 2:9)  Yet, it is the deception – the ruse - against the anointed in the last days. (Rev 13:13,14, 5,7)   The Watchtower has twisted the timing of events to mislead the anointed and those with them.  The symbolic “thousand year” reign of Christ has ended. 
    Rev 20:7-10 speaks again of the “gathering” of the saints for the “battle”, the same battle we see in Rev 16:13,14.  Gog/Magog ARE the Beasts. 
    So, Satan has been let loose from the abyss to deceive the last of the anointed before the Kingdom arrives.  This deception or power is “different” – the gradual development of an organization that causes destruction.  It becomes more apparent with each passing day.  Even the world can see its destructive force; but its reason behind its purpose is only understood by those who discern the “trampling” down of the anointed – the “Gentile” elder body as the “disgusting thing standing in the temple of God.  (Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3)
    Judgment day began when Jesus came to earth. (Luke 12:51; John 3:18) Each person is judged during their lifetime, according to their choices, not during a thousand years after Armageddon.    Armageddon is the culmination of judgment against the remaining ones and those with them.  God judges the world, Jesus Christ and his foundation “stones” judge the anointed and those in the organization – his kings of the earth, and the nations with them.  (1 Cor 5:13; 1 Pet 4:17; Eph 2:19,20) Jesus’ words about the Great Tribulation experienced because of the two beasts, correlates with Daniel’s use of “different” – “For at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not happened from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will happen.  And unless those days had been shortened, no human being would be saved.  But for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened.”  (Matt 24:21,22)  You are feeling this “different” tribulation or sifting, and you are caught in the middle of this battle of truth against lies.  The Great Tribulation is a result of Armageddon. 
    So, Satan doesn’t want to lose his kingdom.  His “different” plan during these last days is to deceive the anointed into idolatry to an organization, and the dual, powerful “trampling” rule of men over them.  (Matt 24:48-51; Rev 9:1-6; 8:10,11; 9)
     
    I believe Satan is the Destroyer.  What he does now or who he destroys before “death” is destroyed waits to be seen.  Yes, the earth will be cleansed of evil.  When he is gone, so is wickedness. (Isa 33:1; 1 Cor 15:24-26; Rev 21:1-4)
     
    I believe in a family of the children of God - the seed of Abraham.   There are the “firstfruits” “born” to spirit life now, with a job to do. (Rom 8:16,17; James 1:18) For the faithful refined anointed ones, they will be Christ’s Bride, fulfilling the “New Covenant” as a new creation – both spirit and human. (Matt 25:1-13; 2 Cor 5:17; Gal 4:26)  Children will be “born” from this union, this fulfilled promise of life. (John 13:20; Rev 22:17;  Those children make up the rest of the children of God, “born” in spirit. (John 6:63)  At that time, the “144,000” priesthood will serve God, Jesus and the future children on the earth. (Rom 8:14; Rev 22:2)  The early priesthood assigned by God was to teach the people of Israel God’s laws.  (Mal 2:7) The heavenly priesthood will do the same, and whatever else they are assigned to do as they serve Christ on the earth, and in heaven. Who knows what God will ask of His future children in the Kingdom.  But for now, he is refining his priests to serve in the spiritual Temple built with the faithful “144,000” (1 Pet 2:5,9)    It will be accomplished by the time the organization goes down. (Zech 4:7; Rev 18:21; 8:8; Dan 2:34; 7:26,27)
    Jesus was the first of Abraham’s promised seed to inherit the earth:
     Now Jacob went out from Beersheba and went toward Haran. 11 So he came to a certain place and stayed there all night, because the sun had set. And he took one of the stones of that place and put it at his head, and he lay down in that place to sleep. 12 Then he dreamed, and behold, a ladder was set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.
    13 And behold, the Lord stood above it and said: “I am the Lord God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and your descendants.
    4 Also your descendants shall be as the dust of the earth; you shall spread abroad to the west and the east, to the north and the south; and in you and in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed. 15 Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have spoken to you.”
    16 Then Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, “Surely the Lord is in this place, and I did not know it.” 17 And he was afraid and said, “How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven!”  Gen 28:10-17
    John 1:51 - He then added, “Very truly I tell you, you will see ‘heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on’ the Son of Man.”
    Angels are messengers, (see the Greek meaning for “angel”), priests are messengers. Mal 2:7  Jesus shares his inheritance of the earth with the “144,000”/anointed/angel messengers.  They won’t be stuck in heaven as the WT portrays it,  but will be both on earth and in heaven.  As “children of a promise” they will inherit the earth.  Rom 9:8; Gal 4:28
    The  vision in Genesis was to Jacob – generally, to Israel.  During the last days, an “Elijah” comes to restore “Jacob” OUTSIDE of the organization.  It is happening now. (Nah 2:2; Isa 49:6; Mal 3:1-4; 4:5; Mark 9:12; Rev 11:3)
    We are at another point where a “voice” is calling, “Prepare the way of the Lord in the wilderness; make a straight highway for our God in the desert.”  Isa 40:3
    Isa 44:24-28; Isa 2:1-5
    I work with other anointed and those not anointed, spreading truth to "Israel", those "nations" residing with them, as well as those "leaving the (apostate) city".  Matt 22:8-10
    "When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."  Matt 10:23
    Rev 18:4-8
    Thus says the Lord,
    The Holy One of Israel, and his Maker:
    “Ask Me of things to come concerning My sons;
    And concerning the work of My hands, you command Me.
     I have made the earth,
    And created man on it.
    I—My hands—stretched out the heavens,
    And all their host I have commanded.
    I have raised him up in righteousness,
    And I will direct all his ways;("make all his ways straight")
    He shall build My city
    And let My exiles go free,
    Not for price nor reward,”
    Says the Lord of hosts.  Isa 45:11-13
    "Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.  Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God."  Rev 21:1-3
    That is, the only true "organization" that God approves. 
     
     
     
     
     
  12. Like
    Witness reacted to Shiwiii in GRAND JURY INVESTIGATORS ARE 'DEAD SERIOUS'   
    ok, I'm not @Witness, but I'll answer you from my perspective. 
    NO, not an organization like we know it today. Not a man made organization, but rather a group of like minded people who fear God and follow what He instructs, not just based on the parts of the Bible they want, but all of it.
    One doesn't need to be formed, its already in place. It isn't labeled by anyone but Him. He knows who is chosen and who still need to come in.
    yup
    not like the wt teaches. Those who have died before us are with Him. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. The earthly part is the part where in Revelation (ch 21) it talks about the throne of God coming down out of heaven and His dwelling will be with men here on Earth. Remember the part about the new Jerusalem coming down? 
    Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. ...
     
    yup, see above
    by fellowship and observation. 
    no, God will................... through them. You will know if God is behind it, because it will not waver nor will you have doubts about their actions or interpretations. 
     
    Yes. 
    Yes, we will be judged as individuals and it is only by the faith in Jesus and acceptance of His sacrifice for each and every one of us, will we be allowed into the Kingdom. 
    United, yes but not in a man defined structure of an organization. We will serve God as individuals within the group. 
     
    I can see what you are saying, but that isn't what the Bible tells us as to why. Doesn't the Bible tell us that the Gospel needs to be spread and then....
    Matt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
     
    There isn't a religion nor a "true" religion, it's a way of life.......God's way of life. 
     
     
     
    These are all just my point of view based on what I know. If its wrong, well thank goodness that I try and keep my faith in Jesus and what He has done for me. He is the only way to the New Jerusalem. 
     
     
  13. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in GRAND JURY INVESTIGATORS ARE 'DEAD SERIOUS'   
    Grand jury investigators are ‘dead serious’ about revealing sexual abuse cover-ups among Jehovah’s Witnesses
    by David Gambacorta, Updated: February 14, 2020- 5:00 AM           TIM TAI / FILE PHOTOGRAPH Brian Chase listened carefully from his Tucson, Ariz., home last July as an investigator from the Pennsylvania Attorney General’s Office introduced himself over the phone.
    After some idle chitchat, the investigator asked: Was Chase familiar with the office’s 2018 grand jury report, which showed that priests had sexually abused thousands of children at six Roman Catholic dioceses in Pennsylvania?
    “Just what was in the papers,” Chase responded, “and what I saw on Facebook.”
    The investigator explained that the AG’s office was now working on a similar state inquiry, this time focused on the Jehovah’s Witnesses. But the agency was unsure of the scope of sexual abuse within the often-misunderstood religion, which was founded in Pittsburgh in the 1870s.
    Chase, 52, had been raised a Jehovah’s Witness in Corry, a small town in Erie County. In the 1980s, when he was a teenager, Chase said he was drugged and raped by a man who belonged to his congregation. Decades would pass before Chase understood that their stories were common within Witness communities across the country, but rarely reported to police.
    “The scope,” Chase told the AG’s office official, “is pretty big.”
    The existence of a Pennsylvania grand jury investigation into the Witnesses’s handling of child sex abuse cases — the first of its kind in the country — was only disclosed a week ago, in a story by USA Today, which was met with a no comment from Attorney General Josh Shapiro.
    But The Inquirer this week interviewed five ex-Witnesses who have already testified for the grand jury, including Chase, and their recollections paint a portrait of an investigation focused on shattering the wall of silence that has long surrounded the religion’s reclusive leaders, and unearthing secretly-maintained records about suspected pedophiles.
    Investigators have traveled to several states as part of the grand jury probe, and recorded testimony from former elders — the Witnesses’s equivalent of parish priests — as well as abuse survivors.
    “I can tell you firsthand, I’ve been up to the grand jury a couple of times now, and I’m testifying next week,” said Jeffrey Fritz, a Philadelphia attorney who represents Chase and his wife, as well as several other ex-Witnesses.
    “They are dead serious about going after [the Witnesses’ leaders] in any way they can, similar to the Catholic Church.”
    TIM TAI / FILE PHOTOGRAPH Jeffrey Fritz, an attorney with the Center City-based law firm Soloff & Zervanos, represents multiple ex-Jehovah's Witnesses who have testified in front of a Pennsylvania grand jury within the last year. Such a declaration would have seemed unthinkable for much of the past two decades, which saw a muted law enforcement response to ex-Witnesses who described in the pages of court documents horrific sexual assaults they suffered as minors, and the religion’s ongoing efforts to hide their accounts from the public.
    Sarah Brooks is another of Fritz’s clients; when she alerted her parents in the early 2000s to the fact that she was being abused as a teenager by a family friend and a relative, she was publicly shamed by an elder at her York County kingdom hall, and then shunned by other Witnesses. She twice reported the assaults to police, and her abusers were ultimately arrested in 2013, and pleaded guilty to corruption of a minor.
    Brooks, now 32, testified before the grand jury in Harrisburg last year.
    Investigators asked her to explain the Witnesses’s inner hierarchy, the system of elders and overseers who ultimately take direction from members of a small governing body whose orders must be closely followed by the religion’s 8 million followers, which number more than 7,000 in Philadelphia.
    At least three grand jury witnesses said investigators want to question governing body members, who work out of the organization’s sprawling headquarters in Tuxedo Park, N.Y., where they relocated several years ago, after selling their former Brooklyn headquarters for more than $1 billion to a real estate company run at the time by Jared Kushner, President President Trump’s son-in-law.
    “I am completely ecstatic," Brooks said. "It’s all I can do to not skip everywhere. I just feel like after all of the numerous people I’ve gone to, I finally have gotten to a point in my life where someone is listening.”
          JESSICA GRIFFIN / FILE PHOTOGRAPH Sarah Brooks testified before the grand jury about the sexual abuse she suffered as a teenager in Pennsylvania at the hands of a family friend and a relative. She first shared her story with The Inquirer in 2018. Martin Haugh, a former Witness elder whose 4-year-old daughter was molested inside a Red Lion, York County, kingdom hall in 2005, was so relieved to have testified before the grand jury that he recently tweeted a photo of the subpoena he received beforehand.
    “They are so close to you, the jurors,” he said. “When I was talking to the investigator about what happened to my daughter, one [juror] dropped his pencil. I heard a couple of gasps.”
    Haugh’s daughter had been abused by an adopted relative, John Logan Haugh, who was finally arrested in 2018, after another elder read an Inquirer investigation that detailed the case, and then shared the man’s whereabouts with police.
    Martin Haugh, 42, said investigators were particularly interested in discussing how elders compile child abuse records, and the direction they receive from the religion’s lawyers.
    “We need the FBI to break down their doors,” he said.
    Mark O’Donnell, a former Witness who has twice testified in front of the grand jury, told The Inquirer he spoke last year to an elder who had been alerted to an instance of three children who were being sexually abused by their father.
    The elder told O’Donnell, 52, he had contacted the Witnesses’s legal department, which advised that he shouldn’t share the information with police. The same department later instructed the man to destroy handwritten notes he had taken about the conversation.
      “He became so distraught that he resigned,” said O’Donnell, who has spent years collecting and publishing documents about abuse cases that the Witnesses never reported to police.
    Pennsylvania investigators traveled to meet that former elder in Missouri, and later flew him to Harrisburg to testify.
    O’Donnell’s second appearance in front of the grand jury centered on Witness documents, some of which date back to the 1980s, that have been leaked by whistleblowers, and show how Witness leaders instructed their underlings to stymie law enforcement inquiries and withhold information about suspected pedophiles from unsuspecting congregations.
    The religion has faced increased scrutiny in recent years, from a 2018 episode of an A & E series, “Cults and Extreme Belief," to a story in The Atlantic last year that focused on O’Donnell’s efforts, and a recent Oxygen documentary, “The Witnesses,” which highlights ongoing reporting from Trey Bundy, a reporter at Reveal, from The Center for Investigative Reporting.
    For years, many ex-Witnesses had little choice but to grapple with their trauma silently. Survivors eventually began forming communities on social media — Reddit, YouTube, Facebook — and hoped that the religion’s leaders would be held accountable, either in a news story or a courtroom, for enabling abusers.
    Meanwhile, in Arizona, Brian Chase can still trace the fallout from the rape he survived. He was reprimanded by Witness elders who learned that he had been abused, and then kicked out of his house by his parents, who mistakenly believed he was abusing drugs. He was shunned by those closest to him, and had to muddle through a period of homelessness and years of heartache and confusion.
    He now works with nonprofits that advocate for legislation to benefit and protect abuse victims, a tangible way of healing and helping others who have had to dig out of their own personal hells.
    Traveling 2,000 miles back to Pennsylvania, to testify for the grand jury, offered another chance to make a difference.
      “I felt relief, and that I was doing a good thing,” he said. “I want to do whatever I can to prevent this from happening to other people."
     
    https://www.inquirer.com/news/jehovahs-witnesses-sex-abuse-cover-up-pennsylvania-grand-jury-investigation-20200214.html?fbclid=IwAR105_Hq8SAFFbKWBjx21fAJ06YTENpMTtKS24teDsjxxMSt1so1HSb7Btc
     
           
  14. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in GRAND JURY INVESTIGATORS ARE 'DEAD SERIOUS'   
    Grand jury investigators are ‘dead serious’ about revealing sexual abuse cover-ups among Jehovah’s Witnesses
    by David Gambacorta, Updated: February 14, 2020- 5:00 AM           TIM TAI / FILE PHOTOGRAPH Brian Chase listened carefully from his Tucson, Ariz., home last July as an investigator from the Pennsylvania Attorney General’s Office introduced himself over the phone.
    After some idle chitchat, the investigator asked: Was Chase familiar with the office’s 2018 grand jury report, which showed that priests had sexually abused thousands of children at six Roman Catholic dioceses in Pennsylvania?
    “Just what was in the papers,” Chase responded, “and what I saw on Facebook.”
    The investigator explained that the AG’s office was now working on a similar state inquiry, this time focused on the Jehovah’s Witnesses. But the agency was unsure of the scope of sexual abuse within the often-misunderstood religion, which was founded in Pittsburgh in the 1870s.
    Chase, 52, had been raised a Jehovah’s Witness in Corry, a small town in Erie County. In the 1980s, when he was a teenager, Chase said he was drugged and raped by a man who belonged to his congregation. Decades would pass before Chase understood that their stories were common within Witness communities across the country, but rarely reported to police.
    “The scope,” Chase told the AG’s office official, “is pretty big.”
    The existence of a Pennsylvania grand jury investigation into the Witnesses’s handling of child sex abuse cases — the first of its kind in the country — was only disclosed a week ago, in a story by USA Today, which was met with a no comment from Attorney General Josh Shapiro.
    But The Inquirer this week interviewed five ex-Witnesses who have already testified for the grand jury, including Chase, and their recollections paint a portrait of an investigation focused on shattering the wall of silence that has long surrounded the religion’s reclusive leaders, and unearthing secretly-maintained records about suspected pedophiles.
    Investigators have traveled to several states as part of the grand jury probe, and recorded testimony from former elders — the Witnesses’s equivalent of parish priests — as well as abuse survivors.
    “I can tell you firsthand, I’ve been up to the grand jury a couple of times now, and I’m testifying next week,” said Jeffrey Fritz, a Philadelphia attorney who represents Chase and his wife, as well as several other ex-Witnesses.
    “They are dead serious about going after [the Witnesses’ leaders] in any way they can, similar to the Catholic Church.”
    TIM TAI / FILE PHOTOGRAPH Jeffrey Fritz, an attorney with the Center City-based law firm Soloff & Zervanos, represents multiple ex-Jehovah's Witnesses who have testified in front of a Pennsylvania grand jury within the last year. Such a declaration would have seemed unthinkable for much of the past two decades, which saw a muted law enforcement response to ex-Witnesses who described in the pages of court documents horrific sexual assaults they suffered as minors, and the religion’s ongoing efforts to hide their accounts from the public.
    Sarah Brooks is another of Fritz’s clients; when she alerted her parents in the early 2000s to the fact that she was being abused as a teenager by a family friend and a relative, she was publicly shamed by an elder at her York County kingdom hall, and then shunned by other Witnesses. She twice reported the assaults to police, and her abusers were ultimately arrested in 2013, and pleaded guilty to corruption of a minor.
    Brooks, now 32, testified before the grand jury in Harrisburg last year.
    Investigators asked her to explain the Witnesses’s inner hierarchy, the system of elders and overseers who ultimately take direction from members of a small governing body whose orders must be closely followed by the religion’s 8 million followers, which number more than 7,000 in Philadelphia.
    At least three grand jury witnesses said investigators want to question governing body members, who work out of the organization’s sprawling headquarters in Tuxedo Park, N.Y., where they relocated several years ago, after selling their former Brooklyn headquarters for more than $1 billion to a real estate company run at the time by Jared Kushner, President President Trump’s son-in-law.
    “I am completely ecstatic," Brooks said. "It’s all I can do to not skip everywhere. I just feel like after all of the numerous people I’ve gone to, I finally have gotten to a point in my life where someone is listening.”
          JESSICA GRIFFIN / FILE PHOTOGRAPH Sarah Brooks testified before the grand jury about the sexual abuse she suffered as a teenager in Pennsylvania at the hands of a family friend and a relative. She first shared her story with The Inquirer in 2018. Martin Haugh, a former Witness elder whose 4-year-old daughter was molested inside a Red Lion, York County, kingdom hall in 2005, was so relieved to have testified before the grand jury that he recently tweeted a photo of the subpoena he received beforehand.
    “They are so close to you, the jurors,” he said. “When I was talking to the investigator about what happened to my daughter, one [juror] dropped his pencil. I heard a couple of gasps.”
    Haugh’s daughter had been abused by an adopted relative, John Logan Haugh, who was finally arrested in 2018, after another elder read an Inquirer investigation that detailed the case, and then shared the man’s whereabouts with police.
    Martin Haugh, 42, said investigators were particularly interested in discussing how elders compile child abuse records, and the direction they receive from the religion’s lawyers.
    “We need the FBI to break down their doors,” he said.
    Mark O’Donnell, a former Witness who has twice testified in front of the grand jury, told The Inquirer he spoke last year to an elder who had been alerted to an instance of three children who were being sexually abused by their father.
    The elder told O’Donnell, 52, he had contacted the Witnesses’s legal department, which advised that he shouldn’t share the information with police. The same department later instructed the man to destroy handwritten notes he had taken about the conversation.
      “He became so distraught that he resigned,” said O’Donnell, who has spent years collecting and publishing documents about abuse cases that the Witnesses never reported to police.
    Pennsylvania investigators traveled to meet that former elder in Missouri, and later flew him to Harrisburg to testify.
    O’Donnell’s second appearance in front of the grand jury centered on Witness documents, some of which date back to the 1980s, that have been leaked by whistleblowers, and show how Witness leaders instructed their underlings to stymie law enforcement inquiries and withhold information about suspected pedophiles from unsuspecting congregations.
    The religion has faced increased scrutiny in recent years, from a 2018 episode of an A & E series, “Cults and Extreme Belief," to a story in The Atlantic last year that focused on O’Donnell’s efforts, and a recent Oxygen documentary, “The Witnesses,” which highlights ongoing reporting from Trey Bundy, a reporter at Reveal, from The Center for Investigative Reporting.
    For years, many ex-Witnesses had little choice but to grapple with their trauma silently. Survivors eventually began forming communities on social media — Reddit, YouTube, Facebook — and hoped that the religion’s leaders would be held accountable, either in a news story or a courtroom, for enabling abusers.
    Meanwhile, in Arizona, Brian Chase can still trace the fallout from the rape he survived. He was reprimanded by Witness elders who learned that he had been abused, and then kicked out of his house by his parents, who mistakenly believed he was abusing drugs. He was shunned by those closest to him, and had to muddle through a period of homelessness and years of heartache and confusion.
    He now works with nonprofits that advocate for legislation to benefit and protect abuse victims, a tangible way of healing and helping others who have had to dig out of their own personal hells.
    Traveling 2,000 miles back to Pennsylvania, to testify for the grand jury, offered another chance to make a difference.
      “I felt relief, and that I was doing a good thing,” he said. “I want to do whatever I can to prevent this from happening to other people."
     
    https://www.inquirer.com/news/jehovahs-witnesses-sex-abuse-cover-up-pennsylvania-grand-jury-investigation-20200214.html?fbclid=IwAR105_Hq8SAFFbKWBjx21fAJ06YTENpMTtKS24teDsjxxMSt1so1HSb7Btc
     
           
  15. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Oxygen Video is NOT About What JWs Will Want to Say   
    The world is watching the Watchtower's antics, in the grotesque sense of the word.  
     
  16. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in We are not only spokesperson for God - Geoffrey Jackson   
    Maybe he's actually being truthful.  The GB have a writing department.  The February 2020 broadcast was hosted by Gagus Glockentin, "Helper to the Publishing Committee".  He was serving up spiritual food for the month of February.  
    Perhaps it really would be "presumptuous" to believe all spiritual 'food' and refreshing spiritual 'drink' comes from the minds of the GB when they have many people writing and researching information for them, to be approved every Wednesday when the GB gather (I'm guessing). If the GB admit they are not inspired, they are no different than the elder body.  Holy Spirit somehow appointed the elders though, and somehow directs uninspired anointed ones.  Sounds to me like they are all in the same boat of Spokespeople.   The GB have so many responsibilities running a corporation and fighting off victims of child abuse, how can they manage it all anyway?
    But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards.   Matt 24:48,49
    The spiritual contributions from anointed "Israel" are rejected for the contributions of "drunkards" -  symbolically, not only drunk on the deceptive teachings/"wine" of "Israel's" harlots to begin with,  but on the power and position it affords them.  Rev 18:3   After all, they have the authority from the GB to "beat" down the servants of God's spiritual House  Eph 2:20-22; Rev 13:1,2,7,11,12,15
    "Woe to that wreath, the pride of Ephraim’s drunkards,  (Ephraim - Israel)
        to the fading flower, his glorious beauty,
    set on the head of a fertile valley—
        to that city, the pride of those laid low by wine!
    2 See, the Lord has one who is powerful and strong.
        Like a hailstorm and a destructive wind,
    like a driving rain and a flooding downpour,
        he will throw it forcefully to the ground.
    3 That wreath, the pride of Ephraim’s drunkards,
        will be trampled underfoot.
    4 That fading flower, his glorious beauty,
        set on the head of a fertile valley,
    will be like figs ripe before harvest—
        as soon as people see them and take them in hand,
        they swallow them."  Isa 28:1-4
     
     
     
     
  17. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    As we see, it is very well known in JWorg , who can be that "someone" who are "entitled" to show error or give spiritual application, direction and clarification. That is GB.
    So, please. G. Jackson showed only "art of conversation" with ARC. But because video of his (or any of GB members and WT lawyers depositions and documentations)  will never be revealed on JW TV, it is very clear who want to have last word in conversation and not want to put words on day light for every JW member to see, to hear. 
  18. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in We are not only spokesperson for God - Geoffrey Jackson   
    When GB member Geoffrey Jackson made "clarification" about this question: "Do you see yourselves as Jehovah God's Spokespeople on Earth??
    with answer:
    "Aaa, that I think would seem to be quite presumptuous to say that we are the only Spokesperson that God is using."
    ....questions arise: 
    What other individuals or groups Mr. Jackson had in mind that are also used by this same God to fulfill His will here on Earth? 
    Are they inside WT Society and JWorg, as some illegal FDS GB Body, and are part of Plan B?
    Or perhaps this "spokesperson"  is/are in some other religion, institution or are completely outside of any group and organization?
    What do you think about it, JW people or anyone else?!
     
     
     
  19. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Jehovah's Witnesses Public club. Why ?   
    One characteristic of OCD:  "Compulsions are the individuals attempt to suppress such thoughts or impulses or to neutralize them with some other thought or action"
    …or personality.   For Tom, all of those people are a state of mind. 
  20. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in "The Witnesses"   
    Comment:
    Victims are told to keep silent, so as not to bring reproach on Jehovah's name. Since we have learned, who it really is that is described by the Hebrew meaning of that name (Satan)... (“Je”-“hovah” – “a god”, “a ruin, disaster”)  isn't it true, that bringing these crimes into the light... would indeed put the blame where it belongs?
    Honest disclosure, would expose the deeds going on in the darkness, under the umbrella of that name.

    But when it comes to the genuine and holy One in heaven.... how is it possible for genuine justice, to bring reproach on His genuine name? How can the ousting and punishment of the wicked, cast God in an unfavorable light... when He Himself commands that the unrepentant wicked, be ousted and punished? God wants us to be holy, as He is holy (1Pet.1:16). God wants us to be separate from such sins, remove the wicked, and provide justice and comfort to victims.
    God's justice does not bring reproach on the true God. The leaders and shepherds who pervert justice, is what we see now bringing reproach upon this organization.

    When it is said that the sins and crimes of the wicked, bring reproach to God... we are in essence, ascribing that wickedness to God. We may as well be teaching that God is the one that sinned, and so we have to hide His misdeed, for Him.
    God has never asked his people to lie for his sake... to hide wickedness in order to protect his fragile reputation! It is Satan who wants his position behind-the-scene, to remain disguised and veiled. He does not want the fruitage of his dominion, to be recognized.

    God is a lover of justice (Isa.61:8)
    John3: "19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."
    1John1: "5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin."

    How crooked and twisted, the tongues of these people are! They are the generation of Leviathan."
    Pearl Doxsey

    https://pearl-leviathan.blogspot.com
  21. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in "The Witnesses"   
    It is too bad that those without tv cannot see the two presentations, since even the first youtube link is now gone.  I will try to finish watching  "Part 2" @JJJ-AUSTRALIA , using your link.  Thank you.
    This is a comment by someone who watched both presentations.
     
    "I Watched "The Witnesses" on the Oxygen Channel this past weekend. I thought after 35 years as a "Jehovah's Witness" that I knew how bad the shielding of pedophiles was within the organization. How wrong I was. The depth of this crime is extremely disturbing. Not reporting. Destroying evidence. This program , although it only shows the tip of the iceberg, paints a very disturbing picture indeed. As a "witness' we were encouraged to obey the laws of the land. Don't speed while driving and obey all traffic laws. Don't cheat on your taxes. Don't even steal a pencil or paper from your job. Jesus aptly described this Watchtower Organization when he said "They strain out the gnat, but they gulp down the camel" ( Matthew 23:. 4 "You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. 25 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.")
    Yes the Watchtower indeed tries to exhibit a squeaky clean image, with a form of Godly devotion, but they prove false to it's power.
    How does trying to keep the organization "clean" by reporting child rapist pedophiles to the police bring reproach on God and the organization? Does it not seem to you that the pedophile who rapes the child is the one bringing the reproach?
    If Adultery is wrong and other unclean practices are wrong, then certainly rape of a child is a much worse crime. It is a crime that according to Deuteronomy 22:25 is equal to murder.
    (25... if the man encounters a..young.woman in the open country, and he overpowers her and rapes her, only the man who has done this must die. 26 Do nothing to the young woman, because she has committed no sin worthy of death. This case is just like one in which a man attacks his neighbor and murders him.) (TWO WITNESSES WERE NOT NEEDED)
    Yes these hypocrites strain out the "unclean gnat" but gulp down an entire "unclean camel"
    If someone broke into their Kingdom Hall and stole a photo copier, the elders would call the police without a moment’s hesitation. They would not ask the organization's legal department for directions. For something so petty as that these hypocrites call the police, but not for the rape of a child?
    Even if they are not mandated reporters of child sex abuse, there certainly is no law that prohibits the reporting of child sex abuse and rape....and yet the Watchtower chooses to not report the crime and even to destroy incriminating evidence that exposes the depth of their depravity. Do they think that God is unable to see this? Their day of reckoning is approaching."  Obadiah Doxsey
    I can't remember Trey Bundy's words exactly, but he said he had never seen an organization keep such a meticulously, huge file system not only on wrongdoings, but on each person the minute they become a JW. This includes children and their spiritual milestones growing up. As far as wrongdoings, it struck me how sick and contrary that is according to the scriptures. If we are repentant for any sin, God says - “I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isa 43:25
    What the organization has done, is disfellowshipped VICTIMS of another's wrongdoings. They call the victim the sinner!  They have disfellowshipped pedophiles, only to reinstate them at a later point to do more harm - more destruction.  
    Deut 27:19 - “Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow.”
    Here is another person's reaction to the comment above:
     
    "In reading these comments this morning it caused me to want to review their book ' Learn from the great teacher ', a book they published in 2003 aimed at children, remembering they had a chapter discussing child molestation. The chapter is titled 'How was Jesus protected', it parallels Jesus and his family fleeing to Egypt to escape the wrath of King Harod with child molestation. Go figure. Interestingly, a paragraph on page 170 reads, 'So just as Jesus needed protection,you also need to be protected from grownups-and even from other children- who may try to have sex with you. Usually, these people will pretend to be your friends. They may even offer you something if you promise not to tell others about what they want to do with you. But these people are selfish, like satan and his demons,and they only want pleasure for themselves. '

    Isn't this exactly what their policies promote? If you don't tell, you can keep your family, social network , free from the public 'molestation ' that will follow if you do expose this crime?
    Page 6, paragraph 3, reads,' Heartbreaking things can and do happen when children do not receive help until it's to late.' This documentary it a testament to that very statement. How many have been destroyed, physically,emotionally, and spiritually by their selfish pleasure seeking as an organization?
    They blamed Dinah, in Genesis chpt.34 for getting raped every time I heard the recounting of the story at the meetings, they still victim blame." 
    If the organization truly practiced love, there would be no reason to hide and destroy documents.  There would be no victims who are destroyed. 
    Obadiah made the comment, "How does trying to keep the organization "clean" by reporting child rapist pedophiles to the police bring reproach on God and the organization? Does it not seem to you that the pedophile who rapes the child is the one bringing the reproach?"
    There is no loving soundness, no "rhyme or reason", to their methods. All I can see is Satan, his demons, and their lusts, steering the ship. I kept thinking of the fallen "sons of God" who took women for their wives, when listening to the horrid accounts given by the women in the program. Gen 6:1-5 The result? "The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 
    Committing child abuse is evil.  Harboring the abuser is evil.  Condemning the victim is evil.  Hiding the facts is evil.  Defending one's evil actions in the court system, is abhorrent.  There is NO love practiced in the organization.
    "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 IT DOES NOT DISHONOR OTHERS, IT IS NOT SELF-SEEKING, it is not easily angered, IT KEEPS NO RECORD OF WRONGS. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 IT ALWAYS PROTECTS, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." 1 Cor 13:4-7
     
     
     
     
     
  22. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    " Quote every single line of it, (the Shepherd the Flock book ) if you like, and it will simply show a people taking the lead who are determined to follow scripture in doing so. 
    What it shows is 'a people' (Elders ) taking orders from 8 men in America, of whom none are inspired of Holy Spirit. Therefore none of them truly understand the meanings of the scriptures at all. This is clearly shown by the Two Witness rule, by the no blood/ blood fractions rule, by the accusation of fornication toward brothers and sisters that are just friends. By the shunning rules, the false reasons for disfellowshipping, the list is never ending. 
    " so that if you actually kept up and immersed yourself in scripture and what had been published for the general congregation "
    Well if a person immersed themselves in scripture they would soon find how the GB and the JW Org misuse scripture to suit their own agenda. 'This Generation' comes to mind, and 'Superior Authorities' in the past.
    But if a person 'kept up' with 'what had been published for the general congregation', all they would get is more of the same falsehood, lies, mistakes, which the GB admit to. ( not inspired so may err ) . 
    So, trying to play the Shepherding book down doesn't cut it. It just proves you are a company man Tom. 
     
     
  23. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    I agree, again.
    But why would words that carry Moral and Ethical obligation for all (elders and rank and file members),  ... why there is a need for such selection about "spiritual food" for elders that is not allowed to be read by all other members ("Shepherd book" is what i have in mind at moment)? 
     
     
     
  24. Like
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in I Almost Wish That There Was More Public Kickback From WT Regarding CSA Charges   
    BUT all JWs are supposed to be equal. No clergy class or all clergy class .  All brothers. 
    No hierarchy. And it's supposed to be 'the truth'.  So why would you need hidden information ? 
    After all its not supposed to be an organisation of the world is it ? 
    But remember Tom the whole Elders book is available to read online so we know it is a 'smoking gun'. 
     
  25. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in "The Witnesses"   
    It is too bad that those without tv cannot see the two presentations, since even the first youtube link is now gone.  I will try to finish watching  "Part 2" @JJJ-AUSTRALIA , using your link.  Thank you.
    This is a comment by someone who watched both presentations.
     
    "I Watched "The Witnesses" on the Oxygen Channel this past weekend. I thought after 35 years as a "Jehovah's Witness" that I knew how bad the shielding of pedophiles was within the organization. How wrong I was. The depth of this crime is extremely disturbing. Not reporting. Destroying evidence. This program , although it only shows the tip of the iceberg, paints a very disturbing picture indeed. As a "witness' we were encouraged to obey the laws of the land. Don't speed while driving and obey all traffic laws. Don't cheat on your taxes. Don't even steal a pencil or paper from your job. Jesus aptly described this Watchtower Organization when he said "They strain out the gnat, but they gulp down the camel" ( Matthew 23:. 4 "You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. 25 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.")
    Yes the Watchtower indeed tries to exhibit a squeaky clean image, with a form of Godly devotion, but they prove false to it's power.
    How does trying to keep the organization "clean" by reporting child rapist pedophiles to the police bring reproach on God and the organization? Does it not seem to you that the pedophile who rapes the child is the one bringing the reproach?
    If Adultery is wrong and other unclean practices are wrong, then certainly rape of a child is a much worse crime. It is a crime that according to Deuteronomy 22:25 is equal to murder.
    (25... if the man encounters a..young.woman in the open country, and he overpowers her and rapes her, only the man who has done this must die. 26 Do nothing to the young woman, because she has committed no sin worthy of death. This case is just like one in which a man attacks his neighbor and murders him.) (TWO WITNESSES WERE NOT NEEDED)
    Yes these hypocrites strain out the "unclean gnat" but gulp down an entire "unclean camel"
    If someone broke into their Kingdom Hall and stole a photo copier, the elders would call the police without a moment’s hesitation. They would not ask the organization's legal department for directions. For something so petty as that these hypocrites call the police, but not for the rape of a child?
    Even if they are not mandated reporters of child sex abuse, there certainly is no law that prohibits the reporting of child sex abuse and rape....and yet the Watchtower chooses to not report the crime and even to destroy incriminating evidence that exposes the depth of their depravity. Do they think that God is unable to see this? Their day of reckoning is approaching."  Obadiah Doxsey
    I can't remember Trey Bundy's words exactly, but he said he had never seen an organization keep such a meticulously, huge file system not only on wrongdoings, but on each person the minute they become a JW. This includes children and their spiritual milestones growing up. As far as wrongdoings, it struck me how sick and contrary that is according to the scriptures. If we are repentant for any sin, God says - “I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isa 43:25
    What the organization has done, is disfellowshipped VICTIMS of another's wrongdoings. They call the victim the sinner!  They have disfellowshipped pedophiles, only to reinstate them at a later point to do more harm - more destruction.  
    Deut 27:19 - “Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow.”
    Here is another person's reaction to the comment above:
     
    "In reading these comments this morning it caused me to want to review their book ' Learn from the great teacher ', a book they published in 2003 aimed at children, remembering they had a chapter discussing child molestation. The chapter is titled 'How was Jesus protected', it parallels Jesus and his family fleeing to Egypt to escape the wrath of King Harod with child molestation. Go figure. Interestingly, a paragraph on page 170 reads, 'So just as Jesus needed protection,you also need to be protected from grownups-and even from other children- who may try to have sex with you. Usually, these people will pretend to be your friends. They may even offer you something if you promise not to tell others about what they want to do with you. But these people are selfish, like satan and his demons,and they only want pleasure for themselves. '

    Isn't this exactly what their policies promote? If you don't tell, you can keep your family, social network , free from the public 'molestation ' that will follow if you do expose this crime?
    Page 6, paragraph 3, reads,' Heartbreaking things can and do happen when children do not receive help until it's to late.' This documentary it a testament to that very statement. How many have been destroyed, physically,emotionally, and spiritually by their selfish pleasure seeking as an organization?
    They blamed Dinah, in Genesis chpt.34 for getting raped every time I heard the recounting of the story at the meetings, they still victim blame." 
    If the organization truly practiced love, there would be no reason to hide and destroy documents.  There would be no victims who are destroyed. 
    Obadiah made the comment, "How does trying to keep the organization "clean" by reporting child rapist pedophiles to the police bring reproach on God and the organization? Does it not seem to you that the pedophile who rapes the child is the one bringing the reproach?"
    There is no loving soundness, no "rhyme or reason", to their methods. All I can see is Satan, his demons, and their lusts, steering the ship. I kept thinking of the fallen "sons of God" who took women for their wives, when listening to the horrid accounts given by the women in the program. Gen 6:1-5 The result? "The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 
    Committing child abuse is evil.  Harboring the abuser is evil.  Condemning the victim is evil.  Hiding the facts is evil.  Defending one's evil actions in the court system, is abhorrent.  There is NO love practiced in the organization.
    "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 IT DOES NOT DISHONOR OTHERS, IT IS NOT SELF-SEEKING, it is not easily angered, IT KEEPS NO RECORD OF WRONGS. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 IT ALWAYS PROTECTS, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." 1 Cor 13:4-7
     
     
     
     
     
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