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Jesus.defender
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3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:
They do not believe in the cross because the original form of the word was Stauros, meaning a pole or a stake (tree sticking up perhaps), the cross was a very late addition into Christianity, and the clue of the whole pole/stake situation we can look at Maryas, of which predates Jesus.
Prove it.
The cross is despised by JWs as a pagan symbol. JWs think that Christ was nailed to a
straight upright pole called a stake, without a crossbeam. This is refuted by Thomas in
John 20:25 ‘Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails..’ Two nails here proves
a crossbar was used; one nail would mean a stake. Paul gloried in the Cross (Galatians
6:14).JWs deny that Jesus died on a cross, claiming that Jesus was nailed to a torture stake (an
upright pole without any cross beam).In their NWT they translate ‘cross’ as ‘torture stake’.
Definition: Cross in Greek is ‘stauros’ (4716) meaning ‘a Roman cross consisting of a
straight piece of wood erected in the earth, often with a transverse beam fastened across it’s
top and another piece nearer the bottom on which the crucified persons feet were nailed.’ (S.
Zodhiates, Complete NT Word Study, p.1308). They illustrate Christ’s death on a single pole
with his arms straight above his head with a single nail pinning his hands to a torture stake.Question: Did one nail fasten Jesus’ hands above his head, or did two nails hold his hands
to the opposite ends of a cross beam?Answer:
1) ‘But he (Thomas) said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails,
and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not
believe’. (John 20:25). Both the KJV and NWT have plural ‘nails’, one used for each
hand, totalling 2 nails.Ask: If Jesus was crucified on an upright stake, why does John 20:25 say that nails
(plural) were used, instead of a single nail?2) When Jesus spoke of Peter’s future crucifixion, He said that Peter’s hands would be
stretched forth (out) as crucified on a crossbeam and not above his head on a pole. ‘But when you grow old you will stretch out your hands . . .’ (John 21:18,19 NWT).Ask: From John 21:18,19 how can crucifixion be on an stake if the hands are outstretched?
3) Matthew 27:37 proves a cross crucifixion instead of a stake crucifixion:
‘And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE
JEWS’. If Jesus had died on a stake, it would have said, ‘over or above his hands’.Ask: If Jesus was crucified on an upright stake, why does Matthew 27:37 say that a sign
was placed above Jesus’ head instead of above Jesus’ hands?4) Early WT literature stated that Christ was crucified on a cross. Examples include:
Creation, p.265, 336; WT 1 Jan 1891 p.1277; ‘beginning with its issue of 15 Oct. 1931
the WT no longer bore the cross and crown symbol on its cover’ (1975 Yearbook, p.148).Ask: Does a true prophet of God change position on important topics like this?
5) The WT ignores the facts that:
a) the Greek word ‘stauros’ means a cross as well as a stake, and
b) Romans did execute prisoners on crosses: the horizontal bar was called the
‘patibulum’. Prisoners were made to carry the ‘patibulum’ to their place of execution’
(Seneca, De Vita Beata 19:3; Epistola 101:12; Tacitus, Historicae, Vol 4, p 3)6) WT claims that the cross was not used until after 312 AD as the sign of crucifixion, but
the cross has been discovered in excavations of Christian tombs much earlier than 312 AD. -
2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:
They deny Hell because Hell isn't the lake of Fire, in fact, even bible translation makes this point clear, example, Revelations 20:14
And death and hell [hades] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
So riddle me this? If Hell is the Lake of Fire, how can you cast Hell in Hell? See how silly that sounds? and Any man who knows God, can go to the Hebrew Old Testament and see for themselves in the Torah an the Laws, that God the Father is not a fan of Fire Torment, this practice was done by Molech Worshipers and Sorcerers who toss their sons and daughters into the burning fire - alive. God even stated such a thing would never cross his mind, so I ask you, you seem to get your giggles and delight out of eternal fire torment of people, ask yourself, if such a thing never crossed God's mind to begin with, why practice it? Of whom do you serve and to whom is your master? God the Father or Molech? You can't teach love with Fire Torment, playing with fire is bad.
HELL
In the New Testament, 162 passages speak about unrepentant people going to hell, and 70 of these were described by Jesus, as he warned people to avoid it.
When the unsaved die, they go immediately to hell. Later, at the end of Christ's 1,000 year reign on earth, the unsaved will leave hell, receive their resurrected bodies, go to the Great White Throne Judgment and will then be cast into the Lake of Fire, where they remain forever (Revelation 20:11-15).
I. FOUR BIBLE WORDS THAT DESCRIBE HELL:
1. GEHENNA1067 referred to the continually burning rubbish dump on the south west side of Jerusalem, known as the valley of the sons of Hinnom (or Tophet). Jesus used the word "Gehenna" to describe the place of everlasting punishment because hell is a place of filth and stink, a place of smoke and pain, a place of everlasting fire and suffering. This garbage dump was likened to hell. It is used as a name for the place of everlasting punishment of the lost. It occurs twelve times in the New Testament. It is the ultimate hell of fire. It is the same as the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:14,15).
Matthew 5:22 “whosoever shall say, “Thou fool”, shall be in danger of hell fire” (gehenna of the fire).
Matthew 5:29 “And if thy right eye offend thee ... and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell” (gehenna).
Matthew 5:30 “And if thy right hand offend thee ... and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell” (gehenna).
Matthew 10:28 “...fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (gehenna).Matthew 18:9 “And if thine eye offend thee, ... rather than having two eyes to be cast into
hell fire” (gehenna).
Matthew 23:15 “Pharisees, ... ye make him twofold more the child of hell (gehenna)
than yourselves.”
Matthew 23:33 “Ye serpents,... how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” (gehenna).
Mark 9:43 “And if thy hand offend thee, ... two hands to go into hell (gehenna), into the
fire that never shall be quenched.”
Mark 9:45 “And if thy foot offend thee, ... two feet to be cast into hell (gehenna), into the
fire that never shall be quenched.”
Mark 9:47 “And if thine eye offend thee, ... two eyes to be cast into hell fire” (gehenna of
fire).
Luke 12:5 “Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell” (gehenna).
James 3:6 “the tongue is ... set on fire of hell” (set on fire by gehenna).2. HADES86 is the intermediate state between death and the ultimate hell (gehenna), the Lake of Fire. It is where unsaved departed spirits reside. Luke 16:23. Hades never denotes the physical grave, nor is it the permanent region of the lost. Hades occurs 10 times in the New Testament, and Sheol, the Old Testament equivalent occurs 59 times. Hades is associated with privation, detention and just punishment of the unsaved dead.
Matthew 11:23 “Thou, Capernaum...shalt be brought down to hell” (hades).
Luke 10:15 Hades here expresses Capernaum's absolute overthrow, from pride to humiliation.
Matthew 16:18 “The gates of hell (hades) shall not prevail against it” (the churches’ attack). Luke 16:19-31 “And in hell (hades) he lifted up his eyes, being in torments931 (punishment)”v.23. Hades here has two compartments, close to each other, yet different.
Acts 2:27 “Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (hades).”
Acts 2:31 “That his (Christ's) soul was not left in hell (hades).”Christ here descended into the underworld of the departed (Ephesians 4:9,10), to take the believers in it (eg: thief on the cross) up to heaven. Believers now go to heaven at death, while unbelievers still go to hades at death, a place of punishment.
Revelation 1:18 “I (Christ) ... have the keys of hell (hades) and of death.”
Revelation 6:8 “a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and hell (hades) followed with him.” Hades here is personified as the temporary destiny of the unsaved.
Revelation 20:13 “death and hell (hades) delivered up the dead which were in them.” Revelation 20:14 “death and hell (hades) were cast into the lake of fire.”
Note: Fire is used 27 times in the New Testament to describe the after-death punishment
of unbelievers and of demons.
2 Thessalonians 1:8 “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and
obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Matthew 13:42, 50 “And shall cast them into a furnace of fire.”
Matthew 5:22; 18:9; Mark 9:43,45,47 “cast into fire unquenchable, hell fire.”
Isaiah 66:24 “... look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against
me, for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched.”
Mark9:44,46,48.
Isaiah 33:14 “Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire?
Who among us shall dwell with the everlasting burnings?”
Matthew 18:8 “Two hands or two feet be cast into everlasting fire.”
Matthew 25:41 “Depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil
and his angels.”
Jude 7 “Sodom and Gomorrha ... an example suffering the vengeance of
eternal fire.” (Literally: of fire eternal, the penalty undergoing).
Revelation 19:20 “Beast, .. false prophet, ... and them that worshipped his image.
These were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.”
Revelation 20:10 “the devil ... shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever” (for
the ages of the ages).
Revelation 20:14,15 and Rev. 21:8 “death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.”
Revelation 14:10,11 “tormented with fire and brimstone ... the smoke of their torment
ascends up for ever and ever (for ages of ages), and they have no rest
(respite) day nor night...”3. SHEOL7585 is hades of the Old Testament. In Hebrew, it means the depth, abyss, pit, world of the dead, underworld. It occurs 66 times in the Old Testament (grave 31 times, hell 30 times, pit 3 times). Though all Old Testament people went to the grave, the souls of some will receive punishment in sheol.
Numbers 16:30 “Korah, Dathan and Abiram went down into the pit.” Psalm 9:17 “The wicked shall be turned into hell (sheol).”
4. TARTARUS5020 is the deepest abyss of Hades; a place where evil angels are imprisoned in torment, awaiting judgment and everlasting punishment.2 Peter 2:4 is its only reference in the Bible.
“If God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (tartarus), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.”
II. WHAT IS HELL (GEHENNA and HADES) LIKE?
1. UNQUENCHABLE FIRE: “He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” Matthew 3:12. Hell “fire” is real “fire” because the same Greek word (pur) for fire is used for both. “It rained fire and brimstone...” Matthew 17:15 and Luke 17:29.
The rich man in hades said: “I am tormented in this flame.” Luke 16:24.
2. MEMORY AND REGRET. Abraham said to the rich man in hades “remember” in Luke 16:25. Lost people will remember their sins and the times that they rejected the Holy Spirit convicting them of their sins and their need for Jesus Christ to be their Saviour. They will remember how Christians told them the plan of salvation.
3. THIRST. The rich man in hell begged Abraham to “send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue” (Luke 16:24), yet this was refused. Imagine going without water for one day, let alone for eternity without water.
Jesus Christ offers in John 7:37, “If any man thirst, let him come unto me and drink.”4. SEPARATION. People in hell will experience a “great gulf” (Luke 16:26) between them and God. They took all the good things of life for granted when they were on earth. They will be forever separated from all the good gifts of God. Many unbelievers joke that “I won't be lonely in hell, as all my friends will be there.” Friendship means nothing under everlasting torment.
5. INJUSTICE AND FILTHINESS OF SIN are in hell. Revelation 22:11. “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy let him be filthy still.” No one likes people treating them unjustly, nor do people like being abused in a filthy manner. The unsaved will experience these conditions forever in hell.
6. HOPELESSNESS FOR ALL ETERNITY. Hell is the everlasting dwelling place of the unsaved. Sooner or later they will realise that they are in hell to stay there forever, with no escape. In Luke 16:26, Abraham told the rich man in hell: “They which would pass from here to you cannot; neither can they pass to us.”
7. STINK OF SULPHUR. “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone (sulphur); which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8.
8. EYESIGHT, HEARING, TOUCH, TASTE AND SMELL are senses that people possess in hell. The rich man in Luke 16:19-31 could “see” Abraham, “hear” his voice, “touch” the flames, desire to “taste” water, and “smell” the sulphur. Revelation 21:8.
9. THE DEVIL and DEMON ANGELS will accompany the Christ rejecters forever.
10. UNSATISFIED DESIRES. Both of the rich man's requests were denied in Luke 16:19-31. He requested a drop of water to cool his tongue, and for Lazarus to return to tell his five unsaved brothers how to be saved and avoid hell. Both requests were denied. How many times a day do you want something and get it? In hell, no one ever gets what they want.
11. PLACE OF WORMS. “Where their worm dieth not...” Mark 9:44,46,48.
Worm means maggot. If the maggots do not die, and the people own the maggots, then neither do the people die or get annihilated in hell.
12. TORMENT and PUNISHMENT. “In hell, he lift up his eyes being in torments.” Luke 16:23.
13. SHAME and HATRED. “Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Daniel 12:2. People suffering in hell will get a resurrection body. They will be judged, and sent to the lake of fire in shame at their sins. They will experience everlasting contempt, hating their situation forever.
14. DEGREES OF PUNISHMENT IN HELL. “It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgement, than for that city.” Mark 6:11.
Those who reject Christ most often, will receive greater punishment. Matthew 10:15.15. WEEPING, WAILING, GNASHING OF TEETH. “So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:12 and 13:49,50. People who today are arrogant, proud Christ-rejecters will be wailing and gnashing their teeth in hell.
16. HADES IS IN THE EARTH. Amos 9:2 “though they dig into hell ...”,
Isaiah 14:9 “hell from beneath”, Ephesians 4:9 “descended into lower parts of earth”, Numbers 16:33 “they went down alive into the pit”,
Psalm 63:9 “those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth.”17. HELL IS ORIGINALLY PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS
“Depart from me, ye cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.” Matthew 25:41.
How does one get to hell? By neglecting to receive Christ as Saviour. Hebrews 2:3 “How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation?” How does one avoid hell? By receiving Christ as their Saviour. John 1:12.Christians should work harder to rescue people from hell, and seek to build their church to better achieve this task, both at home and overseas.
Question 1: Does “hell” mean “grave” where good and bad must go?Answer: No, because in Luke 16:19-31 both men went to the grave, but the soul of Lazarus was comforted, and the soul of the rich man was tormented.
Question 2: How can a loving God send people to hell?Answer: People send themselves to hell by rejecting Christ. God is loving in sending Christ to die for our sins, but God is just in punishing sin.
III. JESUS' STORY OF THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS in Luke 16:19-31.
An unbelieving rich man who had abundant material possessions and food in this life, died and went to hell. A believing poor man named Lazarus who had nothing in this life but sickness and poverty, died and was carried by the angels into the comfort of paradise. The suffering rich man in hell made two requests of Abraham in paradise:
i) To send Lazarus to put one drop of water on his tongue to relieve his suffering.
The rich man, who refused to show mercy to Lazarus in need, now begged that Lazarus might show mercy to him in his need (v.24). The rich man declares the greatness of his torment saying: “I am in torment (agony) in this fire (or flame).” v.24.
Lesson: Material things have only temporary, not eternal value. Luke 16:25.Abraham responded by calling him “son”. This means that he was a son of Abraham by flesh, not by faith. The rich man trusted his wealth and his physical descent from Abraham for his salvation. Christ showed that neither reason was sufficient for salvation. At death, one's eternal destiny is settled. "Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed" (v.26). The rich man could remember his false confidence in wealth, and his wrong devotion to it. This story refutes "soul-sleep", because the rich man and Lazarus were conscious, one enjoying comfort, and the other suffering torment.
Note: Hades had two sections: paradise and hell punishment. Jesus emptied the paradise section when He rose from the dead and took the Old Testament believers’ souls to heaven. Eph. 4:8-10; John 20:17.
“Torment” is used four times and means sorrow and grief.
Abraham gave two reasons why Lazarus could not comfort the rich man:
a) The rich man had received his reward (Matthew 6:2,5,16), and he had left God out of his life.
b)The great gulf separated them.ii) To send Lazarus back to warn his five brothers. Luke 16:27-31.
The rich man did not say: “I'm glad my brothers will come here, we'll have a wonderful time together.”
People sometimes say: "I want to go to hell. All my friends will be there." Answer: There is no friendship in hell. Hell is a place of torment and loneliness.Lesson: People in hell have a concern for the lost, but they cannot do anything about it, BUT WE CAN! What are you doing?
v.29-31: Abraham said that the only thing that could prevent his five brothers from coming to hell was:
Hearing the Word of God, and responding to it by faith in Christ as Saviour.A man named Lazarus did come back from the dead, and some of the Pharisees wanted to kill him (John 11:43-57; 12:10).
God had spoken many times to the rich man while on earth:
1. God permitted him to have riches, but not attributing his riches to God’s goodness, he did not repent.
“The goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance.” Romans 2:4-5.
2. Lazarus would have witnessed to him, but his pride rejected Lazarus’ message.
3. Old Testament scriptures spoke to him.
4. Lazarus dying first, should have reminded him how he would also die. In hell he was still self-centred, praying for his comfort and for the safety of his family. He was not concerned about other lost sinners. C.S. Lewis says: “The safest road to hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts.”Lessons from the rich man and Lazarus:
1. The souls of men do not die with their bodies.
2. The souls of men are conscious after death, not asleep until resurrected.3. The righteous at death are taken immediately to a place of happiness and the wicked are sent to a place of misery and torment.
4. Wealth does not protect us from death.
5. We should not envy the rich, as riches can blind us to the reality of eternity.
6. We should seek a better inheritance than this life can give.
7. The sufferings of the wicked in hell will be indescribably great of torment, burning flame, and insatiable thirst, forever.8. Hell is a place of suffering beyond the grave. If not, this story has no meaning.
9. There will never be any escape from hell. The gulf is fixed.
10. God warns us to prepare for death through:
His Word.His Holy Spirit pleading with sinners. His servants.
His goodness leading us to repentance. Pleadings of friends.
Heaven.
If all that would not move sinners, then what would? He threatens hell.
11. God will give us nothing more to warn us. No dead man will return to tell us what he has seen. If he did, no one would believe him. If you will not hear Christ or the Bible, there is nothing you will hear. You will never be persuaded, and you will never escape the place of torment.
12. We see the amazing folly of those wanting to go to hell. They have been deceived.IV. THE IMPLICATIONS OF HELL FOR US TODAY
1. Soul winning is important. When people get angry at a preacher preaching on soul winning, they are doing the devil's work.
2. We need to become fishers of men. Matthew 4:19.
3. If we are busy pulling souls out of the fire, we will not waste our time fighting other Christians. We will seek to maintain unity in our church.
4. We see our Church as of great importance in rescuing people from hell. Rescuing people from hell is a major purpose of churches.
5. Hell focuses our attention on eternity, taking our attention off petty present things like latest worldly fashions which pale into insignificance in the light of lost people going to an eternal hell.
6. Hell makes us train workers to be soul winners.
7. It gives us a love for people to win to Christ and to train in the Bible.
8. It makes us use our time wisely so that all we do helps in some way to rescue people from hell.
9. Hell makes us mission minded so that we try to win lost people to Christ overseas. For example, Roman Catholics in Africa grew from 52 million in 1980 to 92 million in 1993.10. Hell and eternal judgment is the sixth principle of the Doctrine of Christ, so it must be emphasised in our doctrinal teaching. “the foundation of ……eternal judgment.” Hebrews 6:1,2.
11. Hell will give us a better testimony as Christians. If we sin, people will go to hell.
12. Hell will stop us backsliding because we will realise that our job is important to accomplish in rescuing people from hell. “For what shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and lose his own soul?” Mark 8:36. What is your answer to this question?Conclusion
Are you really saved?
Have you received Jesus Christ as your Saviour, trusting Him alone to save you, not your religion or your good works?
If you are saved, then what are you doing to tell people how Jesus Christ can save them from hell?
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2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:
JWs adhere to the teachings of Jesus, they do not believe Jesus is God for there is a clear distinction between God the Father (Yahweh/Jehovah) and Jesus, who is the Son of God. Is it hypocrisy if one, such as yourself, speak ill of another man who does the work of spreading the good news gospel, yet you do not adhere to command and commission? The answer is clear.
Clearly you do not have the Holy Spirit because of what you just posted breaks a very clear quality of what a Christian must profess, but you read the bible don't you? This should be very evident to you and we know what Jesus says about those who do not adhere to the law (Matthew 7:23), especially to someone such a s yourself who have no idea of what the Law of which every True Christians is bounded to.
They deny Hell because Hell isn't the lake of Fire, in fact, even bible translation makes this point clear, example, Revelations 20:14
And death and hell [hades] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
So riddle me this? If Hell is the Lake of Fire, how can you cast Hell in Hell? See how silly that sounds? and Any man who knows God, can go to the Hebrew Old Testament and see for themselves in the Torah an the Laws, that God the Father is not a fan of Fire Torment, this practice was done by Molech Worshipers and Sorcerers who toss their sons and daughters into the burning fire - alive. God even stated such a thing would never cross his mind, so I ask you, you seem to get your giggles and delight out of eternal fire torment of people, ask yourself, if such a thing never crossed God's mind to begin with, why practice it? Of whom do you serve and to whom is your master? God the Father or Molech? You can't teach love with Fire Torment, playing with fire is bad.
They do not believe in the cross because the original form of the word was Stauros, meaning a pole or a stake (tree sticking up perhaps), the cross was a very late addition into Christianity, and the clue of the whole pole/stake situation we can look at Maryas, of which predates Jesus.
Quote yet no explanation. A dog who barks but does not bite, is no dog at all. You also make a small misstep on your part here.
Jesus didn't create everything, nor did he come on his own, nor did he consider himself to be God or equal to him. Your explain is weak and your claim is flawed.
- Mormons do not preach the good news gospel, they believe they can be equal to God, they also believe God himself actually had intercourse with virgin Mary, they also only adhere to the book of Mormon and hold a strong view in polygamy and child marriage.
- JWs, are Restorationist, nuff said. Hardcore Bible pressed also, meaning stick to what the bible says, always.
- SDA believe in the Trinity, so technically, they are JWs who accept the Trinity. They also believe being part of the nation to fight for a cause.
Clearly you do not read the bible very much, unless you are here to troll, it can easily be seen.
Your picture show holds no foundation also. therefore, your spirit has been tested, 1 John 4:1.
You bring up a lot of ignorant statements trying to excuse your(?) religion.
Study the history of the watchtower. They have NO IDEA what the Bible teaches.
I prefer to address one topic per comment, so will address the Biblical Jesus topic here.
Please address one at a time for any further comments, please.
JW's DENY the Jesus of the Bible.
Just believing in someone named "Jesus" means nothing unless we are talking about the Jesus Christ of the Bible. The one, eternal, everlasting, uncreated God. The one who created ALL things. It is like if you know someone called "bob" and i know another person called "bob". Now, can we have a conversation about "bob" without defining WHO we are talking about? No.
The mormon, Jehovahs Witness, Seventh Day Adventist, UPCI, etc. "Jesus" is NOT the Jesus Christ of the Bible.
Ignore the word "trinity". its not important.
God is everlasting, eternal, without beginning or end. God is unchanging, infinite, omnipresence, omniscient , self-existent, self-sufficient, immaterial and omnipotent
There is only ONE God. God Himself says He knows of NO OTHER GOD and if He is all-knowing, He would know if there was any other Gods.
The Bible says that God the father is God.
The Bible says that Jesus is God. John 8:58, John 1:1, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8, Isaiah 44:6 ( crossreference Revelation 1:17 )
The Bible says that the Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3,4. Romans 8:11
The Bible also says there is ONE God. DEUTERONOMY 6:4, DEUTERONOMY 4:35,39, DEUTERONOMY 32:39, 2 SAMUEL 7:22, 1 KINGS 8:60, 2 KINGS 5:15 , 2 KINGS 19:15, NEHEMIAH 9:6, PSALM 18:31 ( Which also states Jesus is God ), PSALM 86:1, ISAIAH 37:16,20, ISAIAH 43:10,11, ISAIAH 44:6,8, ISAIAH 45:21, ISAIAH 46:9, HOSEA 13:4, MARK 12:29-34, ROMANS 3:30, 1 CORINTHIANS 8:4-6, 1 TIMOTHY 2:5.
Therefore, somehow, these three entities constitute the one, eternal, everlasting God.
We are not told HOW God is God, that is not important. God just tells us thats the way it is.Did Jesus really say He was God?
That’s exactly how Jesus’ original audience seemed to take it when He said, “I and the Father are one.” In fact, the Jews were ready to kill Him right there! Why? “Because you,” they said, “a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33).
On another occasion, He used the personal name of Israel’s God–the name revealed to Moses (Exodus 3:14)–to refer to Himself. And He even used the Torah for context, so no one would misunderstand Him: “Before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:58). This would be about wild as telling a Muslim, “I am your God, Allah.” Don’t try that in Saudi Arabia! It’s no wonder the Jews tried to stone Him to death. That was the exact penalty for blasphemy under the Jewish legal system. It was pretty clear to everyone there that He was saying, “I am Israel’s God.”
Why Jesus is God? The Apostle Thomas called Jesus God.John 20:27-29: 2. The Apostle Peter called Jesus God.2 Peter 1:1: 3.The Apostle John called Jesus God.John 1:1-3, 4.God the Father called Jesus God.Hebrews 1:8: 5. God the Father called Jesus God. 6.Isaiah the Prophet said the Messiah would be God.Isaiah 9:67. The Jews who crucified Jesus understood Him to be saying that He was equal with God.John 5:18: 8.Jesus called Himself "I AM", the Old Testament name for God (Exodus 3:14).John 8:58-59. 9.Jesus calls Himself "the Alpha and Omega," the title of Almighty God.Revelation 22:12-13. 10. Like God (Gen. 1:1) Jesus created.Colossians 1:16-1711. Like God, Jesus forgives sin.Mark 2:5-7, 10-11:12. Like God, Jesus gives eternal life.John 10:27-28: 13. Like God, Jesus received, receives and will receive worship.Matthew 14:32-33. 14. Jesus said that only God was good; and Jesus was good. John 10:11: "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep."John 10:11: "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep."Jesus was as good as they come. He was "sinless," "holy," "righteous," "innocent," "undefiled," and "separate from sinners." (Hebrews 7:26) That's pretty good! 15. Like God, Jesus can be present in more than one place at the same time.Matthew 18:20: 16. One of Jesus' titles is "God with us."Matthew 1:23. 17. Jesus' blood is called God's blood.Acts 20:28: 18. Jesus has the same nature as God.Hebrews 1:3a: 19. Jesus spoke as God.Jesus did not speak as one of God's prophets: "thus says the Lord," but as God: "I say to you."Matthew 5:27-29. 20. Like God (Psalm 136:3), Jesus is called the Lord of Lords and King of kings.Revelation 17:14. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. ( WHEN WAS GOD PIERCED? ). And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel (means God Among Us).
John 1:1 "Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος ", "En archē ēn ho Logos kai ho Logos ēn pros ton Theon kai Theos ēn ho Logos", "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word"John 1:14, "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."
John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." Crossreference with Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
John 10:33 "The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."
Collossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."
Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: "
Matthew 4:10 "Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." Crossreference with Matthew 2:2, Matthew 2:11, Matthew 28:9.
Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." Crossreference with Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he." and Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."
John 8:24 "eipon oun hymin hoti apothaneisthe en tais hamartiais hymōn ean gar mē pisteusēte hoti egō eimi apothaneisthe en tais hamartiais hymōn" - I said therefore to you that you will die in the sins of you if indeed not you believe that I am you will die in the sins of you
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Of course not.
CHRISTIANS will be saved.
Â
JW's DENY Jesus, DENY the Holy Spirit, DENY hell and DENY the cross.
Titus 3:5-7 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."Eph. 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Gal. 2:16 "a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus"Â
Acts 4:12. "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
Â
Just believing in someone named "Jesus" means nothing unless we are talking about the Jesus Christ of the Bible. The one, eternal, everlasting, uncreated God. The one who created ALL things. Â It is like if you know someone called "bob" and i know another person called "bob". Now, can we have a conversation about "bob" without defining WHO we are talking about? No.
The mormon, Jehovahs Witness, Seventh Day Adventist, UPCI, etc. Â "Jesus" is NOT the Jesus Christ of the Bible.
Â
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On 9/22/2016 at 9:51 PM, ThePraeceptor said:
There isn't any mistranslation of any name in John 8:24. You need to understand BASIC Greek grammar so as to not confuse personal pronouns (εγώ) and verbs (ειμί) with names.
Then show me WHO translated the NWT and what manuscript they used for this passage, please.
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In John 8:24 Jesus said "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
The dreadful unscholarly NWT mistranslates the name of Jehovah in this verse.
So, my question to Jehovahs Witnesses is "Do you believe Jesus is the I AM?".
Jesus also said "I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God."
So, JW's, are you born again?
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As always, it will be missing the gospel message.
Also, "return to Jehovah" would imply we were with Him before coming to earth, aka: mormon theology -
On 8/14/2016 at 2:23 PM, JaniceM said:
Yes, it is allowable. However, the issue was whether he is allowed by law as a registered sex offender of minor(s) to put himself in the position where he comes in contact with a minor child, which is often the case if he's going door to door visiting homes. In most jurisdictions, sex offenders cannot live within so many feet of a school or playground, etc. In some cases, children of sex offenders are taken out of the home so they will not come in contact with the sex offender(s) even if it's the parent(s). There is no room for a sex offender to work themselves into a trusting home where a parent would feel comfortable leaving a child alone with them or letting them take the child out of the home for any length of time.
As an example someone with an alcohol problem, cannot be around alcohol for it is too tempting and they can fall back into abusing it. We all have to remove ourselves from certain tempting situations or things that may stimulate us to commit sin.
So in theory he can never leave his house or walk down the street or go shopping, all of which could put him in the vicinity of children, right?
Plus, if that was me and a kid answered the door, i would take a few steps back and ask if their parents were home. If yes, i would ask for them, if no, i would thank them and walk away.
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so? are past sex offenders not allowed to be a JW, or a Christian?
Why film him? what crime was he committing?
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2 hours ago, SonOfcaleb said:
I'm not particularly concerned about what you think is true, or what your definition of truth is, as its patently obvious what this thread is about and the discussion you're attempting to goad. My position has been very clear and is based on facts. Yours conversely is based on tendentious reasoning that i've proven to be false, ergo lies. Now these aren't my words as you claim. The Reasoning Book under the aptly titled heading "False Prophets" says the following:-
These are the words of the governing body in black and white. As i've repeated numerous times this is a very easy position to understand. As we are not prophets your claim regarding "Watchtower false prophecies" is obviously false.
The Reasoning Book continues:-
All of this concurs with what i've said already in this thread.
1877 'The End Of This World; that is the end of the gospel and the beginning of the millennial age is nearer than most men suppose; indeed we have already entered the transition period, which is to be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation Dan. 12:3." (N.H. Barbour and C.T. Russell, Three Worlds, and the Harvest of This World, p. 17).
1879 "Christ came in the character of a Bridegroom in 1874.... at the beginning of the Gospel harvest." (Watchtower, Oct 1879, p. 4)
1880 "We need not here repeat the evidences that the "seventh trump" began its sounding A.D., 1840, and will continue until the end of the time of trouble, and the end of "The times of the Gentiles," A.D., 1914, and that it is the trouble of this "Great day," which is here symbolically called the voice of the Archangel when he begins the deliverance of fleshly Israel. "At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince (Archangel) which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation." Dan. xii. 1. Nor will we here, again present the conclusive Bible proof that our Lord came for his Bride in 1874, and has an unseen work as Reaper of the first-fruits of this Gospel Age. (Zion's Watchtower November, 1880 p. 1)
1886 "The outlook at the opening of the New Year has some very encouraging features. The outward evidences are that the marshaling of the hosts for the battle of the great day of God Almighty, is in progress while the skirmishing is commencing. … The time is come for Messiah to take the dominion of earth and to overthrow the oppressors and corrupters of the earth, (Rev. 19:15 and 11:17, 18) preparatory to the establishment of everlasting peace upon the only firm foundation of righteousness and truth." (Zion's Watchtower, January, 1886;Watchtower reprints I, p. 817)
1888 "In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove; Firstly, that at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, Thy Kingdom come, will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be set up, or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions." (The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)
1889 "Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty (Rev. 16:14) which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's word." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, The Time Is At Hand, 1889 Ed., p. 101. The 1915 Edition of this texts changed "A.D. 1914" to read 'A.D. 1915')
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11 hours ago, SonOfcaleb said:
Nothing wrong with my reading ability mon frere. I read your post and its quite transparent the 'debate' you're attempting to stir. You made the fallacious claim regarding these alledged Jehovahs Witnesses prophecies. So putting your hubris to one side and dealing with the facts il repeat what i said again as you didnt seem to understand it the first time. We are not prophets and have never made any prophecies. I think thats quite an easy sentence for most cognitive adults to understand. And not only that its fully supported by Gods own word in the Bible. You know of any prophets foretold or otherwise after Jesus time circa 1AD that were sent specifcally to the Nation of Israel. Nah me neither.....
" We are not prophets and have never made any prophecies. I think thats quite an easy sentence for most cognitive adults to understand. "
Just because you say something, does not make it true.
"So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? . . . This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197).
I think the above sentence/paragraph is an easy one for most cognitive adults to understand.
here are some more simple sentences that you should be able to understand:
‘The Nazis will destroy the British.’ (Fifth Column, p 15)
In subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God has already begun...And that the "battle of the great day of God almighty [revelation 16:14], which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of the earth's present rulership, is already commenced. [The 1915 edition of this book changed "A.D. 1914" to "A.D. 1915."] *from the book "The Time is at Hand; 1889
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1 hour ago, SonOfcaleb said:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prophecy
Simple Definition of prophecy
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: a statement that something will happen in the future
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: the power or ability to know what will happen in the future
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prophesy
Simple Definition of prophesy
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: to state that something will happen in the future
As per the defintion of each word above prophecy is not the result of prophesying. Prophecy comes from divine foreknowledge EG Jehovah God. Prophesy is a merely a describing word indicating a belief of something that will happen in the future. EG Not of divine foreknowledge.
I think this a bit of a stretch..Hyperbole if you will. The fundamental tenets of the Jehovahs Witnesses faith EG the principles that we live by which have been established since 1AD have been around for over 2000 years. There is no other Christian religion who adheres as strictly as we do to the teachings of Jesus and the early Christians of 1AD. In that respect we are without paralell among ALL Christian faiths in recorded history.
Even the early Christians spent many hours deliberating over doctrinal issues such as circumcision or blood. Some of these proved to be very serious issues that required guidance and further mediation/direction from the governing body in Jerusalem, Ac 15:6-29. Now if men annointed directly by Jesus such as Paul, and early Christians who were priviliged to be Apostles and Disciples of Jesus witnessing Jesus in the flesh along with his ressurection but argued over doctrine how much more so difficult a task is that for the current governing body who are 2000 years removed from those early Christians! Now i'm using this as an illustration to show the inherent fallbility of imperfect men. To expect an infallable understanding of the scriptures and thus all doctrine is unreasonable, as everything can't be known in perfect detail even with regular study. Either way you're only talking about nuanced changes in understanding.The fundamentals of our faith have not changed. In addition im sure you'll struggle to find other Christian faiths who have adjusted their understanding of scripture when most of them have an unwavering, unchallengeable dogma such as the Trinity, worship and veneration of 'Saints' or Papal infallability as examples.
hang on, lets stay on topic.
the topic is the watchtowers false prophecies.
we are not talking papal infallibility or what the early Christians did or did not do.
ADDRESS THE ISSUE.
In 1889, the WT said " we present PROOFS that the setting up of the kingdon of God has already begun...and that 'the battle of the great day of God almighty' (Revelation16:14),which will end in AD1914 with the complete overthrow of the earth's present rulership, is already commenced.". So, the WT presented "proofs". These "proofs" were wrong, so what credibility do they have to "proclaim" anything?
- HollyW and SonOfcaleb
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30 minutes ago, SonOfcaleb said:
The last prophet Jehovah sent was his son Jesus Christ. No prophets have existed on Earth since Jesus acension to Heaven.
I'm sure i could find the source of the content that you've copy/pasted but i think that would be a waste of my time as Jehovahs Witnesses have never prophesied anything. We are not prophets. So you probably want to change your subject heading....
Congratulations, you have been successfully brainwashed.
You obviously did NOT read the material. Strange, it is WATCHTOWER material.
Are you afraid of your own organisations' material?
"So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? ... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses. ... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. Thus this group of anointed followers of Jesus Christ, doing a work in Christendom paralleling Ezekiel's work among the Jews, were manifestly the modern-day Ezekiel, the "prophet" commissioned by Jehovah to declare the good news of God's Messianic kingdom and to give warning to Christendom." Watchtower 1972 Apr 1 pp.197-199 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them'
"commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah … commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah…" The Nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah" - How? pp.58,62
"… commission to speak as a "prophet" in His name…" Watchtower 1972 Mar 15 p.189
"The Watchtower is a magazine without equal in the earth …. This is not giving any credit to the magazine's publishers, but is due to the great Author of the Bible with it truths and prophecies, and who now interprets its prophecies." Watchtower 1943 Apr 15 p.127
"The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. God feeds his own people, and surely God uses those who love and serve him according to his own will. Those who oppose The Watchtower are not capable of discerning the truth that God is giving to the children of his organization, and this is the very strongest proof that such opposers are not of God's organization." Watchtower 1931 Nov 1 p.327
- HollyW and SonOfcaleb
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On 7/8/2016 at 1:37 AM, HollyW said:
It was said in answer to my question about baptism that a person should be willing to wait on the organization Jehovah is using. Why do you believe the WTS is the organization Jehovah is using?
Jehovah has NO organization on Earth. We cannot see this in the Bible at all.
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6,000 years from Adam ended in A.D. 1872. (Daily Heavenly Manna, inside cover page),6,000 years of human history ended in 1873.(The Time is at Hand, p.33),6,000 years of human history ended in 1972.(The Truth Shall Make You Free, p.152, 1943 edition),6,000 years of human history ended in 1975. (Awake!, October 8th, 1968, page 15).
1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?.. Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them," (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).
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BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS
Watchtower Teaching WT forbids blood transfusions because of Genesis 9:4 ‘But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat’.
The WT teaches that a blood transfusion is the same as eating blood, because it resembles intravenous feeding. This doctrine was invented in 1944.
Bible Teaching and Historical facts:
1) Thousands of JWs and their children have died because they followed this WT error.
QUESTION: Would you really allow your baby to die because of this WT instruction?2) Most JWs are unaware that their leaders have a history of making medical prohibitions,then later changing their minds to allow them. Examples include:
(i) Vaccinations were forbidden by the WT from 1931 to 1952. JWs had to refuse vaccinations because the WT taught that ‘vaccination is a direct violation of the everlasting covenant that God made’ (Golden Age, 4 Feb 1931, p 293).
Awake of 22 Aug 1965 admitted that vaccinations have caused a decrease in diseases(p.20)
QUESTION: How did the parents of children who died from not being vaccinated, feel when the WT reversed its view in 1952? How many of these children died needlessly?(ii) Organ transplants were allowed by the WT up to 1967, but were forbidden in 1967 saying that ‘organ transplants amounted to cannibalism and are not appropriate for Christians’ (WT, 15 Nov 1967, p 702-4, and Awake 8 June 1968, p 21). Hence all organ
transplants were forbidden for 13 years, during which time many JWs died needlessly.Then in 1980, the WT changed its mind to allow them saying that ‘organ transplants are not necessarily cannibalistic’ (WT, 15 March 1980, p 31).
(iii) Blood plasma and blood particles were forbidden to be used by JW haemophiliacs (Awake, 22 Feb 1975, p 30). Shortly after, the WT changed its mind to permit certain blood particles to be used, but failed to put it into print for 3 years until 15 June 1978, p
30 (WT). Only those haemophiliacs who phoned WT headquarters from 1975-78 discovered the change. Others were left to suffer and die.
QUESTION: How long before the WT changes its view on blood transfusions?QUESTION: Why does the WT keep changing its mind on medical issues?
QUESTION: Is it right for an infallible prophet of God organisation (such as the WT claims to be) to keep changing its mind.
(iv) In 1984, they allowed for a bone-marrow transplant. Bone marrow is the very source of blood. However, they would disfellowship you for receiving a bloodtransfusion.
3) In Genesis 9:4 the context is God forbidding the eating of animal blood (as pagans did), not the transfusion of human blood. A blood transfusion is not intravenous feeding, because the blood so given does not function as food. When one gives a transfusion, it is not a loss of life, but a transference of life from one person to another. It replenishes and saves a life.
QUESTION: Since blood is not taken in as food to digest, but as life sustaining fluid, is it not clear that transfusion is different from eating?
4) Leviticus 3:17 ‘You must not eat any fat or any blood at all.’ (NWT)
QUESTION: Why do WT leaders forbid blood transfusions but allow the eating of fat? Why not forbid both? The WT is not consistently interpreting the Bible. Leviticus 17:11,12: ‘For the life of the flesh is in the blood’. Blood transfusion does not function as food, but simply transfers life from one person to another as an act of mercy.Key: Leviticus 3:17 prohibits eating animal blood, not transfusing human blood.
QUESTION: Where is loss of salvation mentioned in Acts 15:9,11 for receiving a blood transfusion?
Key: Acts 15:28,29. A blood transfusion uses blood for the same purpose that God intended, (as a life-giving agent in the bloodstream). Drinking blood is not God’s intended purpose for
bloodConclusion: Even though JWs try to support blood transfusions with Scripture, their real reason for believing it is blind obedience to the WT. If the WT organisation lifted its ban on blood transfusions, JWs would freely accept them if needed.
For the WT to admit they were wrong would cause too great a stir in their ranks. Therefore any changes must be presented as ‘new light’ in order to make it appear that ‘Jehovah’ is making the changes, rather than a few men on the governing body.
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4 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:
I didn’t mention the NWT since you did such a good job of contradicting yourself as you normally do with it.
Think of a better one. This one is old school and cliché, even the experts don’t agree with you.
Jehovah’s Witnesses: Portrait of a contemporary religious movement Page 11-12
People who espouse world-renouncing creeds seldom have trouble-free lives, particularly if they are successful in recruiting others to their cause. The mass media thrive on stories of vulnerable individuals unable to escape from dangerous cult leaders who force their docile followers to obey their every command. Not surprisingly, this kind of sensationalism has distorted public perception of religious conversion. Although there is no doubt that some movements have involved their members in life-threatening activities (including suicide), these incidents are rare. But conversion need not affect life and limb to cause a public stir. When people deviate from convention, conformist onlookers are always at the ready with a fixed repertoire of explanations.
Over the years, tabloid newspapers (with the aid of anti-cult activists) have fueled public contempt for heterodox religion with scare stories of brainwashing and psychological manipulation. To suggest that individuals have been brainwashed is to strip them of their sanity. It is to infer that their actions are the result of some powerful external force over which they have no control. I am unwilling to accept the brainwashing thesis for several reasons. First, it is a metaphor that reduces the mental state of so-called victims to such an extent that it becomes
difficult either to hold them accountable for their actions or to take what they believe seriously. The day we allow this to happen will be a sad day for the social sciences. My second objection concerns empirical measurement. Unless the term can be clearly defined, it is impossible to use any kind of research instrument to test its validity; hence, there is little hope either of exposing those who allegedly employ this process and even less of exonerating them from blame. By far my biggest concern, however, is that the brainwashing metaphor can be used to undermine any political or religious ideology that happens to be unpopular. Stories of brainwashing serve much the same purpose in our culture as accusations of witchcraft in remote African villages. They are an effective means of undermining wayward beliefs and denying a voice to those who hold them. They may even be used to expel religious dissidents from secular communities. It is, perhaps, little wonder that millenarians retreat to the margins of society. Whether we like it or not, most of the available social scientific evidence suggests that, though their behavior may be anti-social, the majority of those who join millenarian movements are making an informed choice.If this research means anything, people who reject religious orthodoxy are doing little other than expressing their dissatisfaction with tradition. It does not mean that they are of a different species. For what it is worth, I too find millenarian evangelists unconvincing, but it is only by listening to what they have to say that we can achieve a better understanding of their way of life
and of how others come to view them with suspicion. For this, we need an appropriate methodology.. Buddy, when it comes to scripture, I’m the most independent thinker you’ll ever meet.
How about reading the article instead of reading it from some worthless websites?
Watchtower Jan 15, 1983 Article Title: Exposing the Devil’s Subtle Designs
Then apply 1 Corinthians 15:33: Context: The Order of Resurrection
33Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good character.”
undoubtedly, you’ll find you meet these criteria.
Watchtower Jan 15, 1983 Article Title: Armed for the Fight Against Wicked Spirits
Sub Article: Fight Against Independent Thinking
19 As we study the Bible we learn that Jehovah has always guided his servants in an organized way. And just as in the first century there was only one true Christian organization, so today Jehovah is using only one organization. (Ephesians 4:4, 5; Matthew 24:45-47) Yet there are some who point out that the organization has had to make adjustments before, and so they argue: “This shows that we have to make up our own mind on what to believe.” This is independent thinking. Why is it so dangerous?
20 Such thinking is an evidence of pride. And the Bible says: “Pride is before a crash, and a haughty spirit before stumbling.” (Proverbs 16:18) If we get to thinking that we know better than the organization, we should ask ourselves: “Where did we learn Bible truth in the first place? Would we know the way of the truth if it had not been for guidance from the organization? Really, can we get along without the direction of God’s organization?” No, we cannot!—Compare Acts 15:2, 28, 29; 16:4, 5.
21 When we consider the mighty spirit forces who are fighting against us, we must acknowledge that on our own we could not possibly win. Yet with God’s backing, and with the help and support of his organization—our worldwide association of brothers—we cannot lose. (Psalm 118:6-12; 1 Peter 5:9) However, we must never forget that we are in a spiritual war, and that wartime is no time to be relaxing, enjoying only leisure and the pleasures of life. Rather, it is the time for vigorous training, alertness and self-sacrifice. The enemy has been able to get some from among us to relax their guard, and these have become battle casualties. May this never happen to us! It will not if we keep on “the complete suit of armor from God” and “stand firm against the [crafty acts] of the Devil.”—Ephesians 6:11, 12.
So is this understanding derived from the WTS, or did the WTS take it from the Inspired word of God. (Scripture)
Learn to understand scripture!!!!!!!!!
What’s the Harm? Well, there you go, The Truth shall set you free from ignorance.
" I didn’t mention the NWT since you did such a good job of contradicting yourself as you normally do with it. "
Wow. Then I will quote it.
" And let all God's angels do obeisance to him"
So, we see the NWT contradicts ALL the versions you quoted.
You are a very rude person and not a good example of a JW.
you cut and paste from wt websites and are blinded to the truth.
The problem with this verse in the JW Bible is with the word "obeisance." In the Greek, the word is proskuneo. It means, worship: fall down and worship, kneel, bow low, obeisance. Obeisance means, "bending the head or body or knee as a sign of reverence or submission or shame." While it is certainly true that people would bow down before Jesus in the Bible, the English word "obeisance" does not carry sufficiently the act of worship due Him because of His divine nature. Since the Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus is God in flesh, they cannot have their Bible teach that Jesus was worshipped. Therefore, every single time that the word "proskuneo" is used in reference to Christ, it is translated as "obeisance" and never as worship. For proof of this, please see the CARM article The New World Translation and "Proskuneo" (worship) which has a chart of every occurrence of the Greek word and how the New World Translation renders it.
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2 hours ago, AllenSmith said:
For someone who knew nothing about translation as some people like to think so, the WTS translation is as with any other bible translation, accurate!!!!!!!!!!
People should STOP going to erred websites like FreeMinds, and JWfacts. Their perception of the WTS is based on ill-conceived notion of intelligence.
Parallel Verses
New International Version
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."
New Living Translation
And when he brought his supreme Son into the world, God said, "Let all of God's angels worship him."
English Standard Version
And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”
Berean Study Bible
And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all God's angels worship Him."
Berean Literal Bible
And again, when He brings the Firstborn into the world, He says: "And let all God's angels worship Him."
New American Standard Bible
And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, "AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM."
King James Bible
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
When He again brings His firstborn into the world, He says, And all God's angels must worship Him.
International Standard Version
And again, when he brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."
NET Bible
But when he again brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all the angels of God worship him!"
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Again, when he brings The Firstborn into the universe, he says, “All the Angels of God shall worship him.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation
When God was about to send his firstborn Son into the world, he said, "All of God's angels must worship him."
New American Standard 1977
And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says,
“AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM.”
Why didnt you quote the NWT in the parallel verses? The NWT does NOT agree with ANY of these translations.
" People should STOP going to erred websites like FreeMinds, and JWfacts. Their perception of the WTS is based on ill-conceived notion of intelligence. "
If you really believe that, congratulations, the watchtower has you successfully brainwashed.
I know you are not allowed to think for yourselves.
1983 "Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)
1983 "Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )
Now, if those "erred websites" quote OFFICIAL watchtower publications, whats the harm?
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2 hours ago, AllenSmith said:
For someone who knew nothing about translation as some people like to think so, the WTS translation is as with any other bible translation, accurate!!!!!!!!!!
People should STOP going to erred websites like FreeMinds, and JWfacts. Their perception of the WTS is based on ill-conceived notion of intelligence.
6318 προσκυνέω
• προσκυνέω (κυνέω ‘to kiss’) impf. προσεκύνουν; fut. προσκυνήσω; 1 aor. προσεκύνησα (trag., Hdt.+. Freq. used to designate the custom of prostrating oneself before persons and kissing their feet or the hem of their garment, the ground, etc.; the Persians did this in the presence of their deified king, and the Greeks before a divinity or someth. holy.) to express in attitude or gesture one’s complete dependence on or submission to a high authority figure, (fall down and) worship, do obeisance to, prostrate oneself before, do reverence to, welcome respectfully, in Attic Gk., and later (e.g. Appian, Mithrid. 104 §489), used w. the acc. (so Mt 4:10 and Lk 4:8 [Dt 6:13 v.l.]; J 4:22ab, 23b, 24a; Rv 9:20. —Gen 37:9; Ex 11:8; Judg 7:15 A; pseudepigr.; Philo; Jos., C. Ap. 1, 239, Ant. 2, 13; 7, 250; Just.; Tat.; Mel., P. 92, 690; Ath.); beside it the Koine uses the dat. (Phryn. p. 463 Lob.; JWittmann, Sprachl. Untersuchungen zu Cosmas Indicopl., diss. Munich 1913, 16; KWolf, Studien z. Sprache des Malalas II, diss. Munich 1912, 34; GKilpatrick in: Studies and Documents 29, ’67, 154-56; B-D-F §151, 2; Rob. 455; 476f), which the LXX (s. also JosAs; ApcMos 27:33) and our lit. prefer (s. also EpArist 135; Jos., Ant. 6, 55; Just., D. 30, 3; 78, 9; 88, 1.—Jos., Ant. 6, 154 πρ. τῷ θεῷ immediately after τὸν θεὸν πρ.). This reverence or worship is paid
a. to human beings, but by this act they are to be recognized as belonging to a superhuman realm (Appian, Mithrid. 104 §489: Pompey; Galen, Protr. 5 p. 12, 2ff ed. WJohn: Socrates, Homer, Hippocrates, Plato): to a king (so Hdt. et al.; cp. 2 Km 18:28; 24:20; 3 Km 1:16, 53. On proskynesis in the Hellenistic ruler cults s. LTaylor, JHS 47, 1927, 53ff, The Divinity of the Rom. Emperor ’31, esp. 256-66; against her WTarn, Alexander the Great II, ’50, 347-73) ὁ δοῦλος προσεκύνει αὐτῷ Mt 18:26 (of a female slave toward her κύριος PGiss 17, 11f=Mitt-Wilck, I/2, 481; s. Jos., Ant. 2, 11); to Peter by Cornelius Ac 10:25 (cp. Apollonius [c. 197 AD] in Eus., HE 5, 18, 6).—The church at Philadelphia προσκυνήσουσιν ἐνώπιον τῶν ποδῶν σου Rv 3:9 (on πρ. ἐνώπιόν τινος cp. Ps 21:28; 85:9; Is 66:23; TestAbr B 4 p. 108, 17 [Stone 64, 17]).—Jesus, who is rendered homage as Messianic king and helper: Mt 2:2, 8, 11.—8:2; 9:18; 14:33; 15:25; J 9:38.—Mt 20:20; GJs 20:4 (codd.); 21:1, 2 (codd.). A man possessed by an unclean spirit asks a favor of him Mk 5:6. Mock worship on the part of soldiers 15:19 (στέφανος 1). S. also bε below.
b. to transcendent beings (God: Aeschyl. et al.; X., An. 3, 2, 9; 13; Pla., Rep. 3, 398a; Polyb. 18, 37, 10; Plut., Pomp. 626 [14, 4]; Lucian, Pisc. 21 τῇ θεῷ; PGM 4, 649. Of various divinities in the ins [s. OGI II 700a index VIII; Sb 7911ff]; PFlor 332, 11 θεούς; LXX; Philo, Gig. 54 τὸν θεόν al.; Jos., Ant. 6, 154; 20, 164 al.; Theoph. Ant. 1, 11 [p. 82, 3]).
α. of deity in monotheistic cult (Christians, Judeans, Samaritans) κύριον τὸν θεόν σου προσκυνήσεις (Dt 6:13 v.l.) Mt 4:10; Lk 4:8. πρ. τῷ πατρί J 4:21, 23a; cp. 23b. τῷ θεῷ (Jos., Ant. 6, 55; 9, 267; cp. Orig., C. Cels. 5, 11, 38 [w. λατρεύειν]) Rv 19:4 (w. πίπτειν), 10b; 22:9. See Hb 1:6 (Dt 32:43 LXX). τῷ ζῶντι Rv 4:10. τῷ ποιήσαντι τὸν οὐρανόν 14:7. πεσὼν ἐπὶ πρόσωπον προσκυνήσει τῷ θεῷ he will fall down and worship God (cp. 2 Km 9:6 of obeisance before David) 1 Cor 14:25; cp. Rv 7:11; 11:16. ἐνώπιόν σου (s. the Ps. reff. in a above) 15:4. Abs. (SIG 1173, 2; PTebt 416, 7; LXX) J 4:20ab, 24ab; Ac 8:27. Used w. ἀναβαίνειν (UPZ 62, 33 [161 BC] ἐὰν ἀναβῶ κἀγὼ προσκυνῆσαι; Jos., Ant. 20, 164) J 12:20; Ac 24:11; cp. Rv 11:1. W. πίπτειν (s. Jos., Ant. 8, 119) Rv 5:14. προσεκύνησεν ἐπὶ τὸ ἄκρον τῆς ῥάβδου αὐτοῦ he bowed in worship (or prayed) over the head of his staff Hb 11:21 (Gen 47:31).
β. of image worship in polytheistic cult (LXX; Ar. 3, 2; Just.; Ath. 15, 1 τὰ ἀγάλματα) προσκυνεῖν τοῖς νεκροῖς θεοῖς 2 Cl 3:1 or λίθους καὶ ξύλα κτλ. 1:6 (cp. EpArist 135 … οἷς πρ.). See Ac 7:43; Dg 2:5. τὰ ὑφ᾽ ὑμῶν προσκυνούμενα the things that are worshiped by you 2:4. Abs., w. θύειν MPol 12:2.
γ. the devil and Satanic beings (the eschatological opponent Iren. 5, 28, 2) Mt 4:9; Lk 4:7 (on πρ. ἐνώπιον ἐμοῦ s. α above). τὰ δαιμόνια Rv 9:20. τῷ δράκοντι 13:4a; τῷ θηρίῳ 13:4b. τὸ θηρίον vss. 8 (αὐτόν), 12; 20:4. τῇ εἰκόνι (Da 3:5 al.) τοῦ θηρίου 13:15; cp. 16:2; 19:20. τὸ θηρίον καὶ τ. εἰκόνα αὐτοῦ 14:9, 11. See θηρίον 1b; also PTouilleux, L’Apocalypse et les cultes de Domitien et de Cybèle ’35.
δ. angels (TestAbr A 3 p. 79, 28 [Stone p. 6]) Rv 22:8; cp. 19:10a.
ε.The risen Lord is esp. the object of worship: Mt 28:9, 17; Lk 24:52 P75 et al. Likewise the exalted Christ MPol 17:3. See also a above, end.—Lit. s.v. προσεύχομαι, end; Bolkestein [δεισιδαιμονία, end] 23ff; JHorst, Proskynein: Z. Anbetung im Urchristentum nach ihrer religionsgesch. Eigenart ’32; Berthe MMarti, Proskynesis and adorare: Language 12, ’36, 272-82; BReicke, Some Reflections on Worship in the NT: TWManson mem. vol. ’59, 194-209.—B. 1469; Kl. Pauly IV 1189. New Docs 2, 68; 3, 77-78; 4, 61f. M-M. EDNT. TW. Sv.
Parallel Verses
New International Version
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."
New Living Translation
And when he brought his supreme Son into the world, God said, "Let all of God's angels worship him."
English Standard Version
And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”
Berean Study Bible
And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all God's angels worship Him."
Berean Literal Bible
And again, when He brings the Firstborn into the world, He says: "And let all God's angels worship Him."
New American Standard Bible
And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, "AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM."
King James Bible
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
When He again brings His firstborn into the world, He says, And all God's angels must worship Him.
International Standard Version
And again, when he brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."
NET Bible
But when he again brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all the angels of God worship him!"
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Again, when he brings The Firstborn into the universe, he says, “All the Angels of God shall worship him.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation
When God was about to send his firstborn Son into the world, he said, "All of God's angels must worship him."
New American Standard 1977
And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says,
“AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM.”
"
For someone who knew nothing about translation as some people like to think so, the WTS translation is as with any other bible translation, accurate!!!!!!!!!!
"
Really? who translated it?
Show me John 1:1 in all the other translations.
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11 hours ago, JW Insider said:
I don't know.
I only know of one person who would sometimes admit that he was on the committee to persons who would ask (Gangas), and one person who admitted it through a "wink and an nod" privately (Schroeder). Just being on the committee doesn't mean that they all translated, per se.
I am also acquainted with a John Albu (now deceased) through whom some excellent research books were made available. Albu appears not to have been involved with the original NWT, but with revisions, however. A non-JW named Steven Byington had also offered services and suggestions for translation revisions. Fred Franz also had a couple of non-JW, Jewish "rabbi" friends, one who came to visit him at Bethel, and the latter may have been a scholar in Hebrew.
If one looked carefully at the Bethel library in the 1970's, it was still obvious that there had been purchases of dozens of different Bible translations and Bible translation aids from the late 1940's through the early 1950's. I believe the process of translating involved a lot of research made "on the spot" and not so much from knowledge they brought to the table. I think that the biggest decisions were about how to translate words that could have multiple meanings, because the NWT had an idea that they could try to find the core word or phrase that could be used consistently. (Parousia can mean advent or presence and the NWT chose presence for all the occurrences. Theos can mean "G/god" or "divine" (in certain circumstances) and the NWT chose G/god for all the occurrences, even when referring to Satan or a stomach as a god. Proskuneo can mean "worship" or "crouching/bending the knee" or "kissing the master's hand" so a different kind of decision had to be made for this word depending on who was being "worshiped." (See Strong's #4352, or Thayer's Lexicon) It was not always possible to be perfectly consistent. (The 2013 revision gives up this idea of perfect consistency for simpler readability.)
Again, I don't know, but I expect that a committee went through each verse one by one and read the original literal translation from an Interlinear, looked up possible variant meanings of the original language words, looked to how it was translated in up to 20 or 30 different translations, and if any of those other translations had a questionable solution, they'd have to look up their lexicons to see if it was within the range of correct possibilities. When there was a range of meaning, they sided with a more consistent, and sometimes more literal rendering. There could be many variations, but discussions of the meanings of various Greek and Hebrew words that appear in the pages of the Watchtowers in the 1950's indicate to me that the process was something like that.
Wow, what a blind faith you have!
You are throwing out many red herrings, so lets stick to the topic.
You dont know who translated the NWT, so how do you know they knew what they were doing?
Were they Hebrew and Greek scholars? NO.
Did they know Hebrew and Greek? NO.
Did they pick and chose which passages to use from dozens of dubious documents and translations? YES.
Did they use a SPIRITISTS translation/book? YES.
Did they use ANTI-SEMITIC and ANTI-CHRISTIAN sources? YES
Again i present my statement.
The Watchtower Bible calls the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures one of the best translations to be found. But is it a translation or merely are gross distortions of the actual Greek and Hebrew manuscripts based on these men’s opinions. The FORWARD of the New World Translation in 1961 edition, on page 5 states, "It is a very responsible thing to translate the Holy Scriptures from their original languages, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, into modern speech ... The translators who have a fear and love of the divine Author of the Holy Scriptures feel especially a responsibility toward Him to transmit his thoughts and declarations as accurately as possible." Have their translators been responsible? Are they true to the original languages?
The men that comprised the Translation Committee were not even Greek scholars qualified to translate the Bible. These men were: N.H. Knorr, F. W. Franz the 4th President, A.D. Schroeder, G.D. Gangas and M. Henschel (write to Personal Freedom Outreach, P.O. Box 26062, St. Louis, Missouri 63136 for paper documentation). All met together in these translation sessions. The translation committee requested that the names of the translators remain secret even after their deaths (Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, p. 258).
Franz was asked in a courtroom in Scotland, "Why the secrecy?" he said, "Because the committee of translation wanted it to remain anonymous and not seek any glory or honour at the making of a translation, and having any names attached thereto." The attorney replied, "Writers of books and translators do not always get glory and honour for their efforts, do they?" (Pursuer's Proof of Douglas Walsh vs. The Right Honourable James Latham, M.P., P.C., Scottish Court of Sessions, p. 92 Nov. 1954).
In 1954, in a Scotland trial, Fred Franz, then head of the Watchtower Editorial Board, admitted that he himself was the one who had checked the accuracy of the translation and recommended its publication. (Douglas Walsh v. The Right Honorable James Latham Clyde, M.P., P.C., etc., Scotland, 1954, (1958 ed.).p.88.)
The following is from the trial transcript: -
(Q): Insofar as translation of the Bible itself is undertaken, are you responsible for that?
(A): I have been authorized to examine a translation and determine its accuracy and recommend its acceptance in the form in which it is submitted.
Later, Franz was asked about his own involvement in the translating(Douglas Walsh v. The Right Honorable James Latham
Clyde, M.P., P.C., etc., Scotland, 1954, (1958 ed.).p.92)
(Q) : Were you yourself responsible for the translation of the Old Testament?
( A ) : Again I cannot answer that question...
Here, under oath, Franz refused to confirm or deny he was the translator of the Hebrew text. Why wouldn't he say that he did not translate the Old Testament? The court also wondered "why" and asked (ibid)
(Q): Why the secrecy?
(A): Because the committee of translation wanted it to remain anonymous and not seek any glory or honour at the making of a translation, and having any names attached thereto.
Why is it the writers of the New Testament books identified their authorship by their names, we know they were not seeking honor.
The facts speak for themselves. The real reason would be that the translators could not be checked since they had no qualifications and anyone investigating this could not find anyone to assume responsibility for the translation. A shrewd plan indeed.
According to Raymond Franz, only Fred Franz had "sufficient knowledge of the Bible languages to attempt translation of this kind. He had studied Greek for two years in the University of Cincinnati but was only self taught In Hebrew." Raymond Franz, Crisis of Conscience (Atlanta: Commentary Press, 1983).
Not one of the men had ever studied Greek, and wouldn't know the difference between an alpha or a omega. Only three of the five had even finished high school. Of those three only one went on to College. His name was Fredrick Franz, the same man who became the President of the Jehovah's Witnesses. He did begin at the University of Cincinatti but only completed two years. He then dropped out of College after the first semester in 1913 because he believed what Russell told him, that Christ was returning in 1914. He does not have even the most basic college degree, and certainly does not possess a degree for advanced study of the Bible. In fact, outside of the Watchtower circle Franz is not recognized by anyone as a scholar.
As M. James Penton, a former Jehovah's Witness and historian, has written, "to all intents and purposes the New World Translation is the work of one man-Frederick Franz." M. James Penton, Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses (Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1985),
The men who make up the "translation committee" were self-appointed men lacking any adequate schooling or background in biblical languages unable to function as Bible Translators. Their purpose was not to translate the Scripture into a modern version of the Bible but to justify their theology to their people and have ammunition against Christianity as it is practiced today.
The New World Translation is a fabrication with no scholarship involved. It was specifically created to make the Bible agree their preconceived theology. It was made for their people to believe WT doctrine and uphold their false belief that Jesus is Michael the Archangel not God.
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WATCHTOWER FALSE PROPHECIES
1877 'The End Of This World; that is the end of the gospel and the beginning of the millennial age is nearer than most men suppose; indeed we have already entered the transition period, which is to be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation Dan. 12:3." (N.H. Barbour and C.T. Russell, Three Worlds, and the Harvest of This World, p. 17).
1879 "Christ came in the character of a Bridegroom in 1874.... at the beginning of the Gospel harvest." (Watchtower, Oct 1879, p. 4)
1880 "We need not here repeat the evidences that the "seventh trump" began its sounding A.D., 1840, and will continue until the end of the time of trouble, and the end of "The times of the Gentiles," A.D., 1914, and that it is the trouble of this "Great day," which is here symbolically called the voice of the Archangel when he begins the deliverance of fleshly Israel. "At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince (Archangel) which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation." Dan. xii. 1. Nor will we here, again present the conclusive Bible proof that our Lord came for his Bride in 1874, and has an unseen work as Reaper of the first-fruits of this Gospel Age. (Zion's Watchtower November, 1880 p. 1)
1886 "The outlook at the opening of the New Year has some very encouraging features. The outward evidences are that the marshaling of the hosts for the battle of the great day of God Almighty, is in progress while the skirmishing is commencing. … The time is come for Messiah to take the dominion of earth and to overthrow the oppressors and corrupters of the earth, (Rev. 19:15 and 11:17, 18) preparatory to the establishment of everlasting peace upon the only firm foundation of righteousness and truth." (Zion's Watchtower, January, 1886;Watchtower reprints I, p. 817)
1888 "In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove; Firstly, that at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, Thy Kingdom come, will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be set up, or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions." (The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)
1889 "Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty (Rev. 16:14) which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's word." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, The Time Is At Hand, 1889 Ed., p. 101. The 1915 Edition of this texts changed "A.D. 1914" to read 'A.D. 1915')
1889 "Here we furnish the evidence that from the creation of Adam to (but not including) A.D. 1873 was six thousand years. And though the Bible contains no direct statement that the seventh thousand will be the epoch of Christ's reign, the great Sabbath Day of restitution to the world, yet the venerable tradition is not without a reasonable foundation." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 39. 1889)
1889 "If, then, the seventh thousand-year period of earth's history be an epoch specially noted as the period of Christ's reign, we shall by showing that it began in 1873, be proving that we are already in it." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 40. 1889)
1889 "In the coming 26 years, all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved." (C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 98-99, 1889)
1889 "In this chapter we present the Bible evidence which indicates that six thousand years from the creation of Adam were complete with A.D. 1872; and hence that, since A.D. 1872 are chronologically entered upon the seventh thousand or the Millennium." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 33, 1889)
1889 "Remember that the forty years' Jewish Harvest ended October A.D. 69, and was followed by the complete overthrow of that nation; and that likewise the forty years of the Gospel age harvest will end October, 1914, and that likewise the overthrow of 'Christendom,' so-called, must be expected to immediately follow." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 245)
1894 "Seventeen years ago people said, concerning the time features presented in Millennial Dawn, They seem reasonable in many respects, but surely no such radical changes could occur between now and the close of 1914: if you had proved that they would come about in a century or two, it would seem much more probable. What changes have since occurred, and what velocity is gained daily? 'The old is quickly passing and the new is coming in.' Now, in view of recent labor troubles and threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They say that they do not see how present conditions can hold out so long under the strain. We see no reason for changing the figures-nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." (Zion's Watchtower, Can It Be Delayed until 1914? C. T. Russell July 15, 1894, Also in Watchtower Reprints, l894 p. 1677)
1894 "A few more years will wind up the present order of things, and then the chastened world will stand face to face with the actual conditions of the established Kingdom of God. And yet the course of the Church is to be finished within the space of time that intervenes." (Watchtower p. 56, 1894)
1894 "We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." (Watchtower July 15, 1894, p 266; p 1677 reprints)
1894 "We see no reason for changing the figures nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, Gods dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." (Watchtower, July 15, 1894, Reprints p. 1677)
1897 "...this measurement is 3416 inches, symbolizing 3416 years.... This calculation shows A.D. 1874 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble...." (Russell, Studies in the Scriptures: Thy Kingdom Come, Series III, p. 342, 1897 edition)Note: The 1916 edition changed to read: "We find it to be 3457 inches, symbolizing 3457 years.... Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1914 will be the beginning of the time of trouble...." (The measurement was the length of an interior passageway discovered inside the Pyramids. It has no reference in Scripture.)
1897 "Complete destruction of the 'powers that be' of 'this present evil worlds - political, financial, ecclesiastical - about the close of the Time of the Gentiles; October A.D. 1914." (C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, IV, p. 622, 1897)
1897 "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874, A.D....and the formal inauguration of his kingly office dates from April 1878, A.D." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol.4, p.621, 1897)
1897 "The distillery, the brewery, the saloon, the brothel, the pool-room, all time-killing and character-depraving business will be stopped; and their servants will be given something to do that will be beneficial to themselves and others. "Similarly, the building of war-vessels, the manufacture of munitions of war and defense will cease, and armies will be disbanded. The new Kingdom will have no need of these, but will have abundant power to execute summary justice in the punishment of evil doers... "The banking and brokerage business, and other like employment's, very useful under present conditions, will no longer have a place; for under the new conditions the human race will be required to treat each others as members of one family, and private capital and money to loan and to be needed will be things of the past. Landlords and renting agencies will find new employment also, because the new King will not recognize as valid patents and deeds now on record. "...namely, that with present conveniences, if the whole people were put to work systematically and wisely, not more than three hours labor for each individual would be necessary." (Studies, Vol. IV, pp. 633-635, 1897)
1902 "In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand, 1902 edition, p. 99)
1903 "When Uranus and Jupiter meet in the humane sign of Aquarius in 1914, the long-promised era will have made a fair start in the work of setting man free to work out his own salvation, and will insure the ultimate realization of dreams and ideals of all poets and sages in history." (Watchtower, May 1, 1903, p. 130-131; p3184 Reprints)
1904 "According to our expectations the stress of the great time of trouble will be on us soon, somewhere between 1910 and 1912, culminating with the end of the 'Times of the Gentiles,' October, 1914." (The New Creation, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 6, p. 579, 1904)
1908 "In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished at the end of A. D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1908 ed.; p. 99)
1908 "True, it is expecting great things to claim, as we do, that within the coming twenty-six years all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved" (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1908 ed.; p. 99)
1914 "Even if the time of our change should not come within ten years, what more should we ask? Are we not a blessed, happy people? Is not our God faithful? If anyone knows anything better, let him take it. If any of you ever find anything better, we hope you will tell us." (Watchtower, Dec 15, 1914, p. 376.)
1914 "Studying God's Word, we have measured the 2520 years, the seven symbolic times, from that year 606 B.C. and have found that it reached down to October 1914, as nearly as we were able to reckon. We did not say positively that this would be the year." (Watchtower, November 1, 1914, p. 325)
1914 "While it's possible that Armageddon may begin next Spring, yet this purely speculation to attempt to say just when. We see, however, that there are parallels between the close of the Jewish age and this Gospel age. These parallels seem to point to the year just before us part particularly the early months." (Watchtower Reprints, VI, Sept 1, 1914, p. 5527)
1914 "There is absolutely no ground for Bible students to question that the consummation of this Gospel age is now even at the door, and that it will end as the Scriptures foretell in a great time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation. We see the participants in this great crisis banding themselves together… The great crisis, the great clash, symbolically represented as a fire, that will consume the ecclesiastical heavens and the social earth, is very near." (Watchtower Reprints, VI, May 1, 1914, p. 5450)
1915 "The present great war in Europe is the beginning of the Armageddon of the Scriptures (Rev. 19:16-20). It will eventuate in the complete overthrow of all the systems of error which have so long oppressed the people of God and deluded the world. We believe the present war cannot last much longer until revolutions shall break out" (C.T. Russell, Pastor Russell's Sermons, p. 676, Sometime during World War I)
1915 Here we furnish the evidence that from the creation of Adam to A.D. 1873 was six thousand years. And though the Bible contains no direct statement that the seventh thousand will be the epoch of Christ's reign, the great Sabbath Day of restitution to the world, yet the venerable tradition is not without reasonable foundation. (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1915 ed.; p. 39)
1915 If, then, the seventh thousand-year period of earth's history be an epoch specially noted as the period of Christ's reign, we shall, by showing that it began in A.D. 1873, be proving that we are already in it. (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1915 ed.; p. 40)
1915 Firstly, that at that date [1914] the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, "Thy Kingdom come," will begin to assume control, and that it will then shortly be "set up," or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions. (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1915 ed.; p. 77)
1915 "In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the kingdom of God, will be accomplished near the end of A.D. 1915. (The Time Is At Hand, 1915 edition, p. 99)
1915 "Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1915, with the complete overthrow of the earth's present rulership, is already commenced." (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1915 ed.; p. 101)
1915 "As in the type that date - three and a half years after the death of Christ - marked the end of all special favor to the Jew and the beginning of favor to the Gentiles, so we recognize A.D. 1881 as marking the close of the 'high calling,' or invitation to the blessing peculiar to this age - to become joint-heirs with Christ and partakers of the divine nature." (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1915 ed.; p. 235)
1915 So it was in this harvest also up to A.D. 1878 the time prophecies and the fact of the Lord's presence, substantially as here presented, though less clearly, was our message. Since then the work has widened, and the view of other truths has become brighter and clearer; but the same fact and scriptures, teaching the same time and presence, stand unchallenged and incontrovertible. (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1915 ed.; p. 236)
1915 The Gentile Times prove that the present governments must all be overturned about the close of A.D. 1915; and Parallelism above shows that this period corresponds exactly with the year A.D. 70, which witnessed the completion of the downfall of the Jewish polity. (The Time Is At Hand, 1915 edition, p. 242)
1915 We are already living in the seventh millennium - since October 1872. (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1915 ed.; p. 363)
1915 The Battle of Armageddon, to which this war is leading, will be a great contest between right and wrong, and will signify the complete and everlasting overthrow of the wrong, and the permanent establishment of Messiah's righteous kingdom for the blessing of the world. … Our sympathies are broad enough to cover all engaged in the dreadful strife, as our hope is broad enough and deep enough to include all in the great blessings which our Master and his Millennial kingdom are about to bring to the world. (Watchtower Reprints, VI, April 1, 1915, p. 5659)
1915 To our understanding the general call to this joint heirship with our Redeemer as members of the New Creation of God, ceased in 1881. (The New Creation; 1899; 1915 ed.; p. 95)
1916 "The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873." (The Time Is At Hand, Foreword, p 2, 1916)
1916 We see no reason for doubting, therefore, that the Times of the Gentiles ended in October, 1914; and that a few more years will witness their utter collapse and the full establishment of God's kingdom in the hands of Messiah." (Watchtower Reprints, VI, Sept 1, 1916, p. 5950)
1917 'There will be no slip-up...Abraham should enter upon the actual possession of his promised inheritance in the year 1925' (Watchtower Oct. 15, 1917, p. 6157)
1917 The Spring of 1918 will bring upon Christendom a spasm of anguish greater even than that experienced in the Fall of 1914.... The travail that is coming is to be upon nominal Zion- "Christendom" … "Babylon"; and it will be a great and sore affliction - "A Time of Trouble such as was not since there was a nation." (The Finished Mystery p. 62 [stated to be the "Posthumous Work of Pastor Russell" on p. 2])
1917 'No doubt Satan believed the Millennial Kingdom was due to be set-up in 1915...Be that as it may, there is evidence that the establishment of the Kingdom in Palestine will probably be in 1925, ten years later than we once calculated.' (Studies In The Scriptures, Vol 7, The Finished Mystery, p. 128)
1917 Some interesting developments in connection with the setting up of the Kingdom may occur in 1920, six years after the great Time of Trouble began. It would not be strange if this were so, when we recall that after forty years wandering in the wilderness the Israelites came into possession of the land of Canaan after a further six years. As these matters are still future we can but wait to see. We anticipate that the "earthquake" will occur early in 1918, and that the "fire" will come in the fall of 1920. [The Finished Mystery, 1917, p. 178, Comments on Revelation 11:13. [The 1926 ed. reads: "and that the 'fire' will follow in due course."])
1917 "And the mountains were not found. Even the republics will disappear in the fall of 1920. And the mountains were not found. Every kingdom of earth will pass away, be swallowed up in anarchy." (The Finished Mystery, 1917 edition, p. 258)
1917 Pastor Russell's mission, in large part, was to advise Christendom of its impending end, in the time of world-wide trouble. It is the Divine judgment upon the nations. … There will be no chance of escaping from destruction, through the nations. … The trouble is due to the dawning of the Day of Christ, the Millennium. It is the Day of Vengeance, which began in the world war of 1914 and which will break like a furious morning storm in 1918." (The Finished Mystery, 1917, p. 404)
1917 "Until 1878 the nominal church had been in a sense God's sanctuary or temple; but He was from then on, culminating in 1918, to remove it with a stroke or plague of erroneous doctrines and deeds Divinely permitted. The Church was the strength of Christendom, that about which its life centered, and around which its institutions were built. It was the desire of the eyes of the people, that which all Christians loved. Nevertheless, God was to make manifest the profanation which ecclesiasticism had made of the Christian Church, and to cause the church organizations to become to Him as one dead, an unclean thing, not to be touched, or mourned. And the 'children of the church' shall perish by the sword of war, revolution and anarchy, and by the Sword of the Spirit be made to see that they have lost their hope of life on the spirit plane -- that 'the door is shut."' (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 7, 1917 p. 484.)
1917 Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by million, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of Christianity. (The Finished Mystery, 1917 edition, p. 485)
1917 As the fleshly-minded brothers from Christianity, siding with the radicals and revolutionaries, will rejoice at the inheritance of desolation that will be Christendom's after 1918, so will God do to the successful revolutionary movement; it shall be utterly desolated, "even all of it." Not one vestige of it shall survive the ravages of world-wide all embracing anarchy, in the fall of 1920. (Rev. II: 7-13) (The Finished Mystery, 1917, p. 542, [The 1926 ed. reads: "in the end of the time of trouble."])
1917 This vision of the prophet Ezekiel depicts the established theocratic Kingdom of God on earth, civil and religious, spiritual and earthly. . . . The Temple . . . is a type and symbol of "better things to come," after the wars, revolutions and anarchy of the period from 1914 to 1925 have passed. (The Finished Mystery, 1917, p. 569 [The 1926 ed. reads: "of the time of trouble have passed."])
1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89)
1920 '...we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected' (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, p. 88)
1920 '...we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected' (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, p. 88)
1920 "A simple calculation of these jubilees brings us to this important fact: Seventy jubilees of fifty years each would be a total of 3500 years. That period of time beginning 1575 before A.D. 1 of necessity would end in the fall of 1925, at which time the type ends and the great antitype must begin. What, then, should we expect to take palace? In the type there must be a full restoration; beginning of restoration of all things. The chief thing to be restored is the human race to life; and since other Scriptures definitely fix the fact that there will be a resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful ones of old, and that these will have the first favor, we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men and Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected and fully restored to perfect humanity and made the visible, legal representatives of the new order of things on earth. (Millions now living will never die, 1920 p 89-90)
1920 'Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old' (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, p. 89-90)
1920 "Based upon the argument heretofore set forth, then, that the old order of things, the old world, is ending and is therefore passing away, and that the new order is coming in, and that 1925 shall mark the resurrection of the faithful worthies of old and the beginning of reconstruction, it is reasonable to conclude that millions of people now on the earth will be still on the earth in 1925. Then, based upon the promises set forth in the divine Word, we must reach the positive and indisputable conclusion that millions now living will never die." (Millions Now Living Will Never Die. 1920 p. 97)
1921 "'The time of the end' embraces a period from 1799 A.D., as above indicated, to the time of the complete overthrow of Satan's empire and the establishment of the kingdom of the Messiah. The time of the Lord's second presence dates from 1874, as above stated. The latter period is within the first named, of course, and in the latter part of the period known as "the time of the end." (The Harp of God, 1921 p. 236)
1921 "In Biblical symbology a time means a year of twelve months of thirty days each, or 360 days. Each day is considered for a year... Here are mentioned, then, three and a half times of 360 prophetic days each, or a total of 1260 prophetic days, equal to 1260 years. The Prophet then was shown that 1260 years would mark the beginning of the time of the end of this beastly order. Twelve-hundred sixty years from A.D. 539 brings us to 1799 -- another proof that 1799 marks the beginning of the 'time of the end.' This also shows that it is from the date 539 A.D. that the other prophetic days of Daniel must be counted." … "The most important thing to which all the prophecies point and for which the apostles looked forward has been the second coming of the Lord. It is described by the Prophet as a blessed time. Daniel then says: 'Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.' (Daniel 12:12). The watchers here, without question are those who were instructed by the Lord to watch for his return. This date, therefore, when understood, would certainly fix the time when the Lord is due at his second appearing. Applying the same rule, then, of a day for a year, 1335 days after 539 A.D. brings us to A.D. 1874, at which time, according to Biblical chronology, the Lord's second presence is due. If this calculation is correct, from that time forward we ought to be able to find some evidences marking the Lord's presence."(Harp of God, 1921, pp. 229-230.)
1921 "The natural harvest was used by the Lord to illustrate his harvest of Christians. In the Jewish natural harvest it was customary to glean the field after the regular harvest was over. We should therefore expect to find a harvest period from 1878 to 1918, and thereafter for a time a gleaning work to be done, which we will indicate. The question now is, Do we find a period of harvest in the gospel age after 1874 which serves as a fulfillment of the prophecy of the Lord?" (Studies in the Scriptures, Volume 7 1921, p. 236.)
1921 "The same year, 1881, is prophetically marked as the time for the final withdrawal of favor from the churches, a favor which had begun to be withdrawn in 1878 - the year in which the clergy were cast off as representatives of the Divine Word, and when Pastor Russell began his work by the publication of 50,000 copies of Object and Manner of the Lord's Return. In 1878 the stewardship of the things of God, the teaching of Bible truths, was taken from the clergy, unfaithful to their age long stewardship, and given to Pastor Russell. In the interim, until 1881, the new steward was setting the things in order, getting the truths of the Bible in logical and Scriptural form for presentation, until the last great item of the Hebrew tabernacle types, was ready. Then, in 1881, he became God's watchman for all Christendom, and began his gigantic work of Witness." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 7, pp. 386-387 1921)
1921 "The Scriptures disclose a complete parallel concerning the Jewish and gospel ages. The parallel exists with reference to time as well as events. The Jewish age ended with a harvest, which harvest began with the ascension of our Lord in the year A.D. 33. By the term 'harvest' here used is meant the gathering of the remnant of the Jews to Christ. Jesus' statement plainly is that the gospel age will end with a harvest, during which time he would be present, directing the work of that harvest. In the earth three and a half years from the time of his consecration and baptism, Jesus was preparing the Jews for the harvest of that age. We should expect to find a parallel of this reference to the harvest of the gospel age, and we do find it. Counting three and a half years from 1874, the time of his presence, brings us to 1878. During the presence of the Lord from 1874 to 1878 he was making preparation for the harvest of the gospel age. The Jewish harvest covered a period of forty years, ending in A.D. 73. We should expect, then, the general harvest of the gospel age to end in 1918." (Harp of God, 1921, pp. 235-236, 1921)
1922 "The period must end in 1925. The type ending, the antitype must begin; and therefore 1925 is definitely fixed in the scriptures. every thinking person can see that a great climax is at hand. The Scriptures clearly indicate that the climax is the fall of Satan's empire and the full establishment of the Messianic kingdom. This climax being reached by 1925, and that marking the beginning of the fulfillment of the long promised blessings of life to the people, millions now living on earth will be living then and those who obey the righteous laws of the new arrangement will live forever. Therefore it can be confidently said at this time that millions now living will never die." (Golden Age, Jan. 4, 1922, p. 217)
1922 "The indisputable facts, therefore, show that the "time of the end" began in 1799; that the Lord's second presence began in 1874." (The Watchtower, March 1, 1922)
1922 "We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925. It was on this line of reckoning that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring line.... it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." (Watchtower, p. 150, May 15, 1922)
1922 "It is on the basis of such and so many correspondencies -- in accordance with the soundest laws known to science- that we affirm that, Scripturally, scientifically, and historically, present-truth chronology is correct beyond a doubt. Its reliability has been abundantly confirmed by the dates and events of 1874, 1914, and 1918. Present-truth chronology is a secure basis on which the consecrated child of God may endeavor to search out things to come." (Watchtower, June 15 1922)
1922 "This chronology is not of man, but of God. Being of divine origin and divinely corroborated, present-truth chronology stands in a class by itself, absolutely and unqualifiedly correct...." (Watchtower, July 15, 1922 p. 217)
1922 '1914 ended the Gentile Times...The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures...by then the great crisis will be reached and probably passed' (Watchtower Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262)
1923 '1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures...the Christian has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had (so far as the Scriptures reveal) upon which to base his faith in the coming deluge' (Watchtower April 1, 1923, p. 106)
1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." (Watchtower, p. 106, March 1, 1923)
1924 "No doubt many boys and girls who read this book will live to see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, and those other men of old come forth in the glory of their better resurrection, of perfect in mind and body. It will not take long for Christ to appoint them to their post of honor and authority as his earthly representatives. The world and all the present conveniences will seen strange to them at first, but they will soon become accustomed to the new methods. They may have some amusing experiences at first; for they never saw telephones, radios, automobiles, electric lights, aeroplanes, steam engines, and many other things so familiar to us. (The Way To Paradise, 1924, p. 226)
1924 "Surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of God that the Lord Jesus is present and has been since 1874." (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1924, p. 5)
1924 "The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914. (Watchtower 1924, p. 211)
1924 "We cannot be blamed for presenting from the Scriptures such evidence as they afford which leads us to believe that a certain event will take place at a given time. Some times the Lord has let His people looking for the right thing at the wrong time, and more frequently they have looked for the wrong things at the right time. But all the enemies of the cause of present truth in the earth are fervently hoping that the Bible students will not be so successful in 1925 in looking for the right thing at the right time as they were in 1914. if they are, however, it will be the other fellow that will have to do the explaining, and not we." (The Golden Age, Feb. 13, 1924, p. 314)
1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work." (Watchtower, Sept. 1925, p. 262)
1925 "The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything." (Watchtower 1925, p. 56)
1925 "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year." (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3)
1926 "Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything." (Watchtower 1926 p. 232.)
1927 The Scriptural proof is that the period of his presence and the day of God's preparation is a period from 1874 A.D. forward. The second coming of the Lord, therefore, began in 1874; and that date and the years 1914 and 1918 are specially marked dates with reference to his coming. (Creation; 1927; p. 289 early editions, p310 later editions)
1927 Prophecy can not be understood until it has been fulfilled or is in the course of fulfillment. From 1874 to 1914 the prophecy concerning the Lord's coming was being fulfilled and could be understood, and was understood, by those who were faithful to the Lord and who were watching the development of events, but not by others. (Creation; 1927; p. 290)
1927 "Napoleon began this Egyptian campaign in 1798, finished it, and then returned to France on October 1, 1799. The campaign is briefly , yet graphically described in the prophecy, verses 40-44; and its being completed in 1799 marks, according to the prophet's own words, the beginning of "the time of the end." (Creation; 1927; p. 293)
1927 "Twelve hundred and sixty years from 539 A.D. brings us to 1799, which is another proof that 1799 definitely marks the beginning of "the time of the end." this also shows that it is from the date 539 A.D. that the other prophetic days of Daniel must be counted." (Creation; 1927, p. 294)
1927 Applying the same rule then, of a day for a year, 1335 days after 539 A.D. brings us to 1874 A.D. at which time, according to Biblical chronology, the Lord's second presence was due. (Creation; 1927; p. 298)
1928 "The time of the Lord's second presence dates from 1874, as above stated." (The Harp of God p. 236, 1928 edition!)
1929 'If these prophesies have not been fulfilled, and if all possibility of fulfilment is past, then these prophets are proven false.' (Prophecy, 1929, p 22)
1929 Many of such had been looking for the Lord to come and take them to heaven, and had particularly fixed the year 1914 as when this should be done. The year 1914 was a marked date; but these had merely contemplated something to happen which did not come to pass. (Prophecy; 1929; 1,589,000 ed.; p. 89)
1929 "The Scriptural proof is that the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ began in 1874 A.D." (Prophecy, 1929, p. 65)
1929 "Both the grantor and the grantee are fully persuaded from the Bible testimony which is the word of Jehovah God and from extraneous evidence that God's Kingdom is now in the course of establishment and that it will result beneficially for the peoples of earth; that the governing power and authority will be invisible to men but that the kingdom of God will have visible representatives on the earth who will have charge of the affairs of the nations under supervision of the invisible ruler, Christ. That among those who will be thus the faithful representatives and visible governors of the world will be David, who was once King over Israel; and Gideon, and Barak, and Samson, and Jepthai, and Joseph, formerly ruler of Egypt, and Samuel the prophet and other faithful men named with approval in the Bible at Hebrews 11th. chapter." (Original legal deed to Beth Sarim, Rutherford, 1929)
1930 "But how will you identify King David or any of the other representatives from God?' Rutherford was asked. 'I thought all that out before I wrote the deed,' the judge replied with a twinkle in his gray eyes. 'I realized the possibility of some old codger turning up bright and early some morning and declaring he was David. The men whom I have designated to test the identity of these men are officers of my societies and have consecrated themselves to the Lord, they will be divinely authorized to know impostors from the real princes."' (The San Diego Sun, Saturday, March 15, 1930)
1930 Judge Joseph Frederick Rutherford 60, lives in a ten room Spanish mansion, No 4440 Braeburn Rd, San Diego, Calif. Last week he deeded No 4440 Braeburn Road, and adjacent two car garage and a pair of automobiles to King David, Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthae, Samuel and sundry other mighties of ancient Palestine. Positive is he that they are shortly to reappear on earth, Said he: 'I have purposely landscaped the place with palm and olive trees so that these princes of the universe will feel at home.. (Time Magazine, March 31, 1930)
1930 "The Watchtower, and its companion publications of the society, for forty years emphasized that fact that 1914 would witness the establishment of God's kingdom and the complete glorification of the church. During that period of forty years God's people on earth were carrying on a witness work, which work was foreshadowed by Elijah and John the Baptist. All of the Lord's people looked forward to 1914 with joyful expectation. When that time came and passed there was much disappointment, chagrin and mourning, and the Lord's people were greatly in reproach. They were ridiculed by the clergy and their allies in particular, and pointed to with scorn, because they had said so much about 1914, and what would come to pass, and their prophecies had not been fulfilled. (J. F. Rutherford, Light, Book 1, 1930, p. 194)
1930 "The great climax is at hand. The kings of earth now set themselves against his anointed Stone." (J. F. Rutherford, Light, II, 1930 p. 327)1931 "God's faithful people on earth emphasized the importance of the dates 1914 and 1918 and 1925. They had much to say about these dates and what would come to pass, but all they predicted did not come to pass." (J. F. Rutherford, Vindication, vol. 1, 1931, p. 146)
1931 "God's kingdom has begun to operate. His day of vengeance is here and Armageddon is at hand and certain to fall upon Christendom and that within an early date. God's judgment is upon Christendom and must shortly be executed." (J. F. Rutherford, Vindication, Vol. I, p. 147, 1931)
1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1914, 1918 and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time. Later the faithful learned that these dates were definitely fixed in the Scriptures; and they also learned to quit fixing dates for the future and predicting what would come to pass on a certain date, but to rely (and they do rely) upon the Word of God as to the events that must come to pass. (J. F. Rutherford, Vindication, 1931, p. 338-339)
1931 A gaunt unshaven tramp has been the lone claimant for the $75,000 Southern Californian mansion of David, king of Israel, since it was deeded to the Biblical character a year ago. This was revealed today by Judge James Rutherford, temporary owner of the luxuriantly furnished Spanish type mansion at 440 Braeburn Rd in the exclusive Kensington Heights district. In one of the oddest deeds ever recorded, Rutherford, president of the International Bible Students Association and the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, has placed in trust the magnificent estate for ancient kings and prophets of Israel. The slayer of Goliath and his companions may occupy the 10 room modern home with it's landscaped gardens and patio as soon as their credentials are approved by Rutherford and officials of his societies, divinely authorised to recognise them. One morning as I was going from the house to the garage, a queer looking creature approached me, tipped his dirty hat and cried 'Howdy Judge, I'm David'. 'Go and tell that to the winds', I told him and he left without arguing the matter. I could see at a glance that he was not David. He didn't look like I knew David would look.' Asked how he expected David and his distinguished brethren to look, Rutherford, without hesitation, opened his huge Bible and pointed to a verse which said that the Princes of the Universe would be risen from the dead 'as perfect men'. 'I interpret that to mean', the tall dignified Judge declared, 'that David, Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jepthae, Joseph and Samuel will be sent here to wrench the world from Satan's grasp, clothed in modern garb as we are, and able, with little effort, to speak our tongue.' Rutherford pictured the arrival of the biblical delegation perhaps in frock coats, high hats, canes and spats. At Beth Sarim (House of Princes) as Rutherford has named his mansion, David will find the most modern appliances that science has devised. When the distinguished guests walk up the circular stairway to the second floor, they will find a large office with red leather chairs and shiny flat topped desk with inverted lighting. Even French telephones await the touch of the princes. Opening a wide door, the native sons of Palestine will behold a large bathroom, resplendent in shiny black tile with needle shower and an amply filled medicine chest. What a thrill giant shouldered Samson, who wrecked a palace with his bare fists might find in the gold safety razor and strop! Rutherford built the second floor bedroom, which he temporarily occupies, large in order to accommodate several of the expected owners. With wide pane windows that look out on the purple Cuyamacas to the East and California's first mission to the north, the bedroom is almost severe in it's furnishings. The rulers of the universe will have simple tastes, the judge apparently believes, although the austere end tables sported gaily covered fiction magazines. Rutherford has imported some Koniach, Wasser from Cologne, Germany to freshen the princely faces after shaving. A black skull cap hangs over one of the bedposts. The coming of David and his companions will be the greatest news story of the ages, Rutherford predicted. 'I am not a publicity seeker,' Rutherford said with a twinkle in his kindly brown eyes, 'but I feel that the world should know about their arrival. It will be a great news story.' Word of his 'House of king David' has reached into every corner of the world, the judge stated. 'Everywhere I went people asked me about this place,' Rutherford said. 'In Chicago a millionaire manufacturer offered to build another house for David, but I declined the offer. 'Literally thousands have driven here to see this place,' Rutherford continued. 'Many have come to the door and my secretary has shown them about the place.' The patio with it's silver pool and olive and palm trees is gay with flowers. Down toward the canyon, paths have been landscaped to allow David and his friends to walk in meditation. Many of the fruits and trees, native to their Palestine, will greet the rulers when they arrive. In the two car garage next door stands a new, yellow 16 cylinder coupe which will be turned over to the rulers along with all the personal property on the place. 'Everything will be theirs, the house, the land, the furnishings and even the clothes if they need them,' Judge Rutherford said. 'What will I do? Oh, don't worry about me. I'll manage somehow.' the judge smiled. He had another 'Watch Tower' residence on Staten Island and practically an entire floor at Bethel. The seven famous men will not have long to rest at their San Deigo estate because they soon will lead the forces of the Lord to vanquish the minions of Satan at the battle of Armageddon, Rutherford believed. 'But they will win out. The Lord will punish the devil and will show that the preachers and the politicians have been giving the people false counsel,' Rutherford said confidently. Rutherford will sail May 9 for Europe where he will speak before conventions in Berlin, Paris and London. (San Deigo Sun Newspaper report, Jan. 9, 1931)
1935 "...the scriptural evidence and the physical facts strongly indicate that such witness work is now almost done; and when it is done the universal war will begin. Universal war is absolutely certain to come and that soon, and no power can stop it. ...during the few remaining months until the breaking of that universal cataclysm the powers that rule the nations of the earth will continue to make treaties and tell the people that by such means they will keep that world peace and bring about prosperity. (Universal War Near, 1935, p. 3, 26-27)
1938 "...mark the words of Jesus, which definitely seem to discourage the bearing of children immediately before or during Armageddon....It would therefore appear that there is no reasonable or scriptural injunction to bring children into the world immediately before Armageddon, where we now are." (Watchtower, Nov. 1, 1938, p. 324)
1938 "They had preached that in an early time God would overthrow "Christendom". Many had emphasized the year 1925 as the date, and then when that date did not materialize the date was moved up to 1932. Again, 1932 came and ''Christendom'' was not destroyed, and now it was discovered that "Christendom" would be spared for a while longer for the sake of the Jonadab class, and this made the proud "elective elder" crowd very mad." (Watchtower Feb. 15, 1938 p. 54)
1938 "Would it be scripturally proper for them to marry and begin to rear children? No, is the answer, which is supported by the scriptures....I will be far better to be unhampered and without burdens, that they may do the Lords will now, as the Lord commands, and also be without hindrance during Armageddon. … Those... who now contemplate marriage, it would seem, would do better if they wait a few years, until the fiery storm of Armageddon is gone." (Face the Facts, 1938, p. 46, 47, 50)
1938 As far back as 1880 The Watchtower pointed to A.D. 1914 as the date marking the end of the world, at which time great trouble would come upon the nations; but at that time it was not seen by God's people on earth that the trouble would be the battle of Jehovah against Satan's organization. For many years it was believed by them, and so stated in The Watchtower, that "the time of trouble" would be a terrific clash between the various elements of the earth, such as capital and labor. Not until 1925 was "the time of trouble" Scripturally understood." (Watchtower, p. 35, Feb. 1, 1938)
1939 "The abundance of Scriptural evidence, together with the physical facts that have come to pass showing the fulfillment of prophecy, conclusively proves that the time for the battle of the great day of God Almighty is very near and that in that battle all of God's enemies shall be destroyed and the earth cleared of wickedness." … "Likewise today, all the nations and peoples of earth are face to face with the greatest emergency. They are being warned as God commands, that the disaster of Armageddon is just ahead." (J. F. Rutherford, Salvation, 1939, p. 310, 361)
1939 At San Deigo, California, there is a small piece of land, on which, in the year 1929 there was built a house, which is called and known as Beth Sarim. The Hebrew words Beth Sarim mean 'House of the Princes'; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there are those on earth today who fully believe in God and Christ Jesus and in His Kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth. The title to Beth Sarim is vested in the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in trust, to be used by the president of the Society and his assistants for the present, and thereafter to be forever at the disposal of the aforementioned princes on the earth.... It stands there as a testimony to Jehovah's name; and when the princes do return, and some of them occupy the property, such will be a confirmation of the faith and hope that induced the building of Beth Sarim. (Salvation, 1939, p. 311)
1940 "The year 1940 is certain to be the most important year yet because Armageddon is very near. It behooves all who love righteousness to put forth every effort to advertise The Theocracy while the privileges are still open." (Informant, April, 1940, p. 1)
1940 The Kingdom is here, the King is enthroned. Armageddon is just ahead. The glorious reign of Christ that shall bring blessings to the world will immediately follow. Therefore the great climax has been reached. Tribulation has fallen upon those who stand by the Lord. (The Messenger, Sept. 1940, p. 6)
1940 The prophecies of Almighty God, the fulfillment of which now clearly appears from the physical facts, show that the end of religion has come and with its end the complete downfall of Satan's entire organization." (Religion, J. F. Rutherford, p. 336, 1940)
1940 The witness work for The Theocracy appears to be about done in most of the countries of "Christendom. ... Now the totalitarian rule has suppressed the Theocratic message, and it should be expected that when they quit fighting amongst themselves all the totalitarian rulers will turn their attention to the complete suppression of everything pertaining to the Theocratic Government. What, then, does it mean that the Theocratic Government is now suppressed in many nations? It means that the hour is rapidly approaching when the "sign" of Armageddon will be clearly revealed and all who are on the side of Jehovah will see and appreciate it.." (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1940, p. 265. [White, p. 335 quotes from the 1942 Yearbook (p. 29), completed by Rutherford just before his death: "The record as herewith published would, on the face of it, show that the Theocratic witness work on earth is about done."])
1941 "Armageddon is surely near, and during that time the Lord will clean off the earth everything that offends and is disagreeable. ... From now on we shall have our heart devotion fixed on The Theocracy, knowing that soon we shall journey forever together in the earth. Our hope is that within a few years our marriage may be consummated and, by the Lord's grace, we shall have sweet children that will be an honor to the Lord. We can well defer our marriage until lasting peace comes to the earth." (J. F. Rutherford, Children, 1941, p.366)
1941 "Receiving the gift, [Rutherford's book, Children] the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon." (Watchtower Sept. 15, 1941, p. 288)
1942 "Now, with Armageddon immediately before us, it is a matter of life or destruction. Those who would be of the Lord's other sheep that shall compose the great multitude of Armageddon survivors and live joyfully on earth forever must find the answer to a very personal question, and very important." (Watchtower, April 1, 1942, p. 139)
1942 "The New World Is At The Doors...The time is short. Those who do not inform themselves and who do not now choose the new world which Higher Powers shall establish will never live to enter into blessings and glories." (The New World, 1942, p. 10)
1942 "The Lord Jesus has now come to the temple for judgment, and the remnant of the members of 'his body' yet on earth he has gathered into the temple condition of perfect unity with himself (Malachi 3:1-3), and hence those faithful men of old may be expected back from the dead any day now. The Scriptures give good reason to believe that it shall be shortly before Armageddon breaks. In this expectation the house at San Diego, California, which house has been much publicized with malicious intent by the religious enemy, was built, in 1930, and named 'Beth Sarim,' meaning 'House of Princes.' It is now held in trust for the occupancy of those princes on their return. The most recent facts show that the religionists of this doomed world are gnashing their teeth because of the testimony which that 'House of Princes' hears to the new world. To those religionists and their allies the return of those faithful men of old to rule with judgment over the people shall not bring any pleasure. But to the people whom the angels sang about, 'men of good will,' it shall be an occasion for unbounded jubilation, and they shall rally to the side of those princely representatives of the kingdom of heaven." (The New World, pp. 104-105, 1942)
1942 Such activity in publishing God's kingdom and clearing his name of the Devil's reproaches by religion was mistakenly given a place secondary to the making of the bride of Christ class ready for the marriage with him in heaven, in 1914 as some thought. (The New World; 1942; 2,000,000 ed.; p. 273-274)
1942 Before the Lord's Messenger came to the temple and began interpreting God's will and teaching, the Job class had been darkening counsel by words without knowledge, it not then being due time for the disclosure of such knowledge. Some of the consecrated ones thought they must be taken home to heaven at a time certain in order to help God run the universe. (The New World; 1942; 2,000,000 ed.; p. 308)
1942 "The faithful acts of the men who were known as fathers in Israel are recounted in the eleventh chapter of Hebrews. Genesis 12:1-3; 28:13,14; Acts 7:2-5....These men will be the visible representatives of the Theocracy, which is the government created and built up by the almighty God as his capital organization and which shall rule the world. Further proof that these princes will shortly take office upon earth as perfect men is found in the prophecy of Daniel. But go thou thy way till the end be; for thou shalt rest and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. (Daniel 12:13) Daniel's lot is that of these princes. Proof is now submitted that we are now living at the end of the days, and we may expect to see Daniel and the other mentioned princes any day now!" (Consolation, April 27, 1942, p. 13, brackets in the original)
1943 "Man cannot by airplane or rockets or other means get above the air envelope which is about our earthly globe..."(The Truth Shall Make you Free, p. 285, 1943 edition)
1943 "The final war will come as a most sudden and complete surprise...Nevertheless, the appearing of the 'desolating abomination in the holy place' is an unerring proof that the unknown day and hour of the beginning of the final war is dangerously near." (The Truth Shall Make You Free, 1943, p. 341)
1944 [The establishment of the United Nations was seen] "as one of the most positive evidences that 'the kingdom of heaven is at hand' and that the end of the world arrangement is now near. Jesus foretold the setting up of that anti-Christ organization." (The Kingdom Is at Hand, 1944, p. 342)
1946 "the disaster of Armageddon, greater than that which befell Sodom and Gomorrah, is at the door." (Let God Be True, 1946, p. 194)
1951 "Under the guidance of God's spirit of freedom the magazine today known as the Watchtower but known back there as Zion's Watch Tower, began to be published in July, 1879. In the first year of its publication it pointed to the date 1914 as marked in the Bible." (What Has Religion Done For Mankind?; 1951; p. 308)
1953 "After almost six thousand years of human sorrow, suffering and death, at last permanent relief is near at hand and will be realized within this generation." (New Heavens And A New Earth; 1953; p. 7)
1955 "in the light of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy it is becoming clear that the war of Armageddon is nearing its breaking-out point." (You may survive Armageddon into God's new world, 1955, p 331)
1955 "The very fact that, as part of Jehovah's secret, no one today is able to find out how much time Adam and later Eve lived during the closing days of the sixth creative period, so no one can now determine when six thousand years of Jehovah's present rest day come to an end. Obviously, whatever amount of Adam's 930 years was lived before the beginning of that seventh-day rest of Jehovah, that unknown amount would have to be added to the 1976 date." (Watchtower, February 1, 1955, p. 95)
1961 Like Elijah of old, they became quite disconsolate, uncertain of life, thinking the end of existence and work was at hand. This was especially the case since the remnant was part of the virgin class espoused to Christ as his Bride and she failed to realize her hopes of being glorified to heavenly life with him both in 1914 and now in 1918. (Let Your Name Be Sanctified; 1961; p. 313)
1963 "Of what significance is this today? It means that by the fall of 1963 mankind has dwelt upon this earth 5,988 years. Does this mean, then, that by 1963 we had progressed 5,988 years into the 'day' on which Jehovah 'has been resting from all his work'? (Gen. 2:3) No, for the creation of Adam does not correspond with the beginning of Jehovah's rest day. Following Adam's creation, and still within the sixth creative day, Jehovah appears to have been forming further animal and bird creations. Also, he had Adam name the animals, which would take some time, and he proceeded to create Eve. (Gen. 2:18-22; see also NW, 1953 Ed., footnote on Vs. 19) Whatever time elapsed between Adam's creation and the end of the 'sixth day' must be subtracted from the 5,988 years in order to give the actual length of time from the beginning of the 'seventh day' until now. It does no good to use Bible chronology for speculating on dates that are still future in the stream of time." (All Scripture is inspired of God and Beneficial, 1963, page 286)
1966 "According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E Six thousand years of man's existence on earth will soon be up, yea within this generation. The rein of Christ...to run parallel with the 7th millennium ..." (Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, 1966, p. 29-30)
1966 "Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. 'The new book compels us to realise that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed,' said a conventioneer." (Watchtower 15/10/1966, p 629)
1966 "In this twentieth century an independent study has been carried on that does not blindly follow some traditional chronological calculations of Christendom, and the published timetable resulting from this independent study gives the date of man's creation as 4026 B.C.E. So six thousand years of man's existence on earth will soon be up, yes, within this generation." (Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, p29, 1966 [Note: 4026 BC to 1975AD = 6000 years])
1967 "Just think, 1975 marks the end of 6,000 years of human experience.....Will it be the time when God executes the wicked?....It very well could be, but we will have to wait to see.' (Watchtower, 1/5/1967, p 262)
1968 "The immediate future is certain to be filled with climatic events, for this old system is nearing its complete end. Within a few years at most the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to these last days will undergo fulfilment resulting in the liberation of surviving mankind into Christ's glorious 1000 year reign!" (Watchtower, 1/5/1968)
1968 Eight years from the Autumn of 1967 would bring us to the Autumn of 1975, fully 6,000 years into God's seventh day, his rest day. (Watchtower May 1, 1968 p. 271)
1968 "Why Are You Looking Forward To 1975?" … "What about all this talk concerning the year 1975? Lively discussions, some based on speculation, have burst into flame during recent months among serious students of the Bible. Their interest has been kindled by the belief that 1975 will mark the end of 6,000 years of human history since Adam's creation. The nearness of such an important date indeed fires the imagination and presents unlimited possibilities for discussion." (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p. 494)
1968 "'Adam Created At Close Of 'Sixth Day' Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man's existence coincides with the Sabbath-like thousand-year reign of Christ....It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.' (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p. 499)
1968 "More recently, the book entitled "Famine-1975!" [by W. & P. Paddock, 1967, pp. 52,55,61.] said concerning today's food shortages: "Hunger is rampant throughout country after country, continent after continent around the undeveloped belt of the tropics and subtropics. Today's crisis can move in only one direction - toward catastrophe. Today hungry nations; tomorrow starving nations." … "By 1975 civil disorder, anarchy, military dictatorships, runaway inflation, transportation breakdowns and chaotic unrest will be the order of the day in many of the hungry nations." (The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life, p 88-89, 1968)
1968 "1914 a marked year. Years in advance Bible Scholars realized that 1914 was to be a year of great significance. They expected great changes to take place, and the facts confirm that 1914 was, indeed, a marked year." (The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life; 1968; 40,000,000 ed.; p. 91)
1968 "The Bible speaks of the time in which we are living as the "last days" or the "time of the end." (2 Timothy 3:1; Daniel 11:40) The facts show that this is a limited period that has a definite beginning and a definite end. It began in 1914 when Jesus Christ was enthroned as king in the heavens. It will end when God destroys this present wicked system of things. … How soon will that be? God's own Son, Jesus Christ, gives the answer. After drawing attention to the many things that mark the period from 1914 onward as the "time of the end," Jesus said: "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur." (Matthew 24:34) Which generation did he mean? Jesus had just referred to persons who would "see all these things." "These things" are the events that have taken place since 1914 and those yet to occur down to the end of this wicked system. (Matthew 24:33) Persons born even as much as fifty years ago could not see "all these things." They came on the scene after the foretold events were already under way. But there are people still living who were alive in 1914 and saw what was happening then and who were old enough that they still remember those events. This generation is getting up in years now. A great number of them have already passed away in death. Yet Jesus very pointedly said: 'This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.' Some of them will still be alive to see the end of this wicked system. This means that only a short time is left before the end comes!" (Truth That Leads To Eternal Life, p. 94, 1968)1968 "Just think, brothers, there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of mans existence on earth is completed... The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those who are destroyed then. So, now more than ever, it is vital not to ignore that spirit of wanting to do more." (Kingdom Ministry, March 1968, p. 4 [note: 1968 + 90 months = 1975])
1968 "During world war 1, God's people expected it to lead directly into Armageddon, but Jehovah prevented such a climax at that time. We didn't succumb to such an expectation during world war II. (Kingdom Ministry, Jan. 1968, p. 5)---------------------
1877- THE END OF THIS WORLD...is nearer than most men suppose * from the book: "Three Worlds and the Harvest of this World" Jehova's Witnesses and Prophetic Speculation; 18771889- In subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God has already begun...And that the "battle of the great day of God almighty [revelation 16:14], which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of the earth's present rulership, is already commenced. [The 1915 edition of this book changed "A.D. 1914" to "A.D. 1915."] *from the book "The Time is at Hand; 1889
July 15th 1894- We see no reason for changing the futures- nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble.
1904- The stress of the great time of trouble will be on us soon, somewhere between 1910 and 1912- culminating in the end of the "Times of the Gentiles," October 1914. *from the book "The New Creation" 1904
May 1st, 1914- There is absolutely no ground for bible students to question that the consummation of this gospel age is now even at the door...The great crisis...that will consume the ecclesiastical heavens and the social earth is very near. *Watchtower reprints
When the 1914 events did not occur, they were rescheduled for 1918-1925
The book "The Finished Mystery" Armageddon was to begin "in the spring of 1918" There was to be "worldwide all-embracing anarchy" in the "fall of 1920." The 1917 edition asserts that Revelation 11:13 would be fulfilled "early in 1918" ["the earthquake"] and in the "fall of 1920" [the fire]. The 1926 edition is again altered.
The Watchtower- Sept 1st, 1922: "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the scriptures because it is fixed by the law of God to Israel..."
Watchtower- April 1st, 1923: "Our thought is that 1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures."
So what happened when 1925 arrived??
Watchtower- Jan 1st 1925: "With great expectation, Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have been confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. "
What happened at the end of 1925??
Watchtower- Sept 1925: "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated the thought that 1925 should see an end of the work, and therefore it would be needless for them to do no more."
**All of a sudden Satan, not "God" is the one prophesying.
1930- "The great climax is at hand"
1931- "God's kingdom has begun to operate. His day of vengeance is here and Armageddon is at hand."
1933- "The overwhelming testimony of the prophesy and of the supporting facts shows the cleansing of the sanctuary has been accomplished and this indicates that Armageddon draws nigh.
1939- "The battle of the great day of God almighty is very near"
There were 44 more predictions; 42 from the Watchtower, from May 1940- April 1943.
Sept 1, 1944- "Armageddon is near at hand."
1946- [After WWII] "The disaster of Armageddon...is at the door."
1950- "The March is on! Where? To the field of Armageddon for the 'war of the great day of God almighty.' "
1953- "Armageddon is so near at hand, it will strike the generation now living" *The year 1954 was thought by many Witnesses to be "The Year."
1955- "It has become clear that the war of Armageddon is near its breaking out point."
1958- "When will Armageddon be fought? Jehova the great time keeper has scheduled Armageddon to come at the close of the "time of the end." That time is near. How hear?...No man knows the date but we know it will be very soon. How do we know it will be very soon? Because the time left for the Devil, now that Christ has hurled the Devil down to earth, is called 'a short period of time' [revelation 12:12]
Awake! October 1968: Stated that "certain persons" had falsely predicted the end of the world, and what they lacked was "God's guidance."
*But now, supposedly, this false prophesying is over:
1971: They have "all the evidence" and that God is "guiding them." and "it is overwhelming." Now Armageddon will occur in 1975.
1972: "In the mind of the average Witness, there is no doubt that the 1975 date is correct."
1976 Watchtower: March 15th- "Reconciliation through God's mercy before Armageddon"
September 22nd- "a global disaster unparalleled in human history, is very near."
December 15th- "Hold on, the promise nears fulfillment"
1979 Watchtower: June 15th- "A day of reckoning at hand"
Oct 15th "Take courage, the millennium is at hand"
November 1st- "Christian neutrality as God's war approaches."
A psychiatrist remarked that there is a psychiatric hospital they refer to as "the watchtower" as it is full of so many Jehovah's Witnesses.
- SonOfcaleb and HollyW
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On 7/11/2016 at 5:22 PM, JWTheologian said:
The subject matter is what I was referring too, nothing else. It seems your definition of Jesus is therefore, as a prankster. Like the TV SHOW, Supernatural that gets a lot of input by Robert that is in real estate and has little knowledge other than being a witness once. The Watchtower doesn’t control my thoughts or understanding, God(Jehovah) does, the father of the heavenly Son, and the son of man. Two different people.
I understand what you think scripture means to you, however flawed. I was asked why I think Christendom isn’t following scripture by making disciples and baptizing them. Well, here’s a very good argument how far Christendom still needs to learn fundamental truth.
Very Text you mentioned, you have misinterpreted. So, who lied to you?
" I understand what you think scripture means to you, however flawed. "
I can say the same to you.
"Very Text you mentioned, you have misinterpreted. So, who lied to you?"
Nope, i have simply quoted it.
When we look at the history if the watchtowers false prophecies and ever-changing doctrine and teachings, i wouldnt trust them one bit.
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On 7/19/2016 at 3:20 PM, JWTheologian said:
Interesting. You seem to be contradicting yourself in so many levels. However, you are correct. JESUS is NOT GOD
I never said that. Show me where i did.
Why Jesus is God? The Apostle Thomas called Jesus God.John 20:27-29: 2. The Apostle Peter called Jesus God.2 Peter 1:1: 3.The Apostle John called Jesus God.John 1:1-3, 4.God the Father called Jesus God.Hebrews 1:8: 5. God the Father called Jesus God. 6.Isaiah the Prophet said the Messiah would be God.Isaiah 9:67. The Jews who crucified Jesus understood Him to be saying that He was equal with God.John 5:18: 8.Jesus called Himself "I AM", the Old Testament name for God (Exodus 3:14).John 8:58-59. 9.Jesus calls Himself "the Alpha and Omega," the title of Almighty God.Revelation 22:12-13. 10. Like God (Gen. 1:1) Jesus created.Colossians 1:16-1711. Like God, Jesus forgives sin.Mark 2:5-7, 10-11:12. Like God, Jesus gives eternal life.John 10:27-28: 13. Like God, Jesus received, receives and will receive worship.Matthew 14:32-33. 14. Jesus said that only God was good; and Jesus was good. John 10:11: "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep."John 10:11: "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep."Jesus was as good as they come. He was "sinless," "holy," "righteous," "innocent," "undefiled," and "separate from sinners." (Hebrews 7:26) That's pretty good! 15. Like God, Jesus can be present in more than one place at the same time.Matthew 18:20: 16. One of Jesus' titles is "God with us."Matthew 1:23. 17. Jesus' blood is called God's blood.Acts 20:28: 18. Jesus has the same nature as God.Hebrews 1:3a: 19. Jesus spoke as God.Jesus did not speak as one of God's prophets: "thus says the Lord," but as God: "I say to you."Matthew 5:27-29. 20. Like God (Psalm 136:3), Jesus is called the Lord of Lords and King of kings.Revelation 17:14. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. ( WHEN WAS GOD PIERCED? ). And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel (means God Among Us).
The trinity and it’s false theology.
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Posted
Your comment shows a vast ignorance of Scripture, my friend.
I think you have been brainwashed by a cult.
If you are a JW, that is not surprising since you are commanded NOT to think for yourself.
1983 "Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)
1983 "Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )
So, Jesus did not create everything?
You say God is a liar, then.
The Bible says " For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." Notice here Jesus is also before ALL things. ALL.
Also, we read "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
I can quote the Greek and Hebrew if you like. But, you won't listen to anything that does not come from the watchtower, right?