HollyW

Like an idiot I have been quoting scriptures from the bible to Ann and hoping that she would think about them.... to understand the invisible coming of Christ.... but from her responses I noticed that she has not put thought in them at all.  Now I understand why - it seems she does not really believe in the Bible as she is questioning the flood.  So to her the Bible is hocus-pocus.
I have recently been watching a lot of videos of ancient periods/cultures (because I have studied many books about the cultures which existed after the flood) and looking into archeology before the flood and the dating.
I recently watched a  few interesting videos on civilization.  There are many theories now about a culture that existed more than 10, 000 years ago (before the flood) which influenced the culture of the Sumerians (after the flood).  And many scientists are postulating that this culture had great influence on the post-flood ideas. For example the Nephilim influence as seen in the pantheon of half gods that were also human after the flood.
I also happened to stumble on a few good programs wherein different scientists depict an ice age and a world-wide flood after the ice age - when it melted suddenly.  This was very interesting to me because there is one video (for the life of me I cannot find it now to paste the link) has footage of animals that were swept together in large piles and the bones are visible - in different parts of the world. (There is also other evidences of a flood in many rock formations high up on mountains etc. etc.)  There no doubt was a flood as the stone formations prove -  and these animal bones are prehistoric animals - together with animals that we know today....  Now I do not believe everything I see on video - but it is very interesting that there are several scientists now postulating these theories of a flood - but they put the dates much father back than the Bible.
Now I happen to have a brother who is a brilliant scientist (analytical chemist) who researched new poison structures for many years (toxicologist).  He became one of JWs and eventually went to prison for his faith because he refused to kill people secretly for the government (All governments do bad things behind the scenes).
I have had some discussions with him on the dating of the planet and I wish you could be there because he refutes all the current tests as to the dates given by science. Similar - as in the science of archeology and the dating of civilizations - there is  a set timeline given by scientists (which were haphazardly put together in the 19th century) but are now followed by scientists and has become like a religion. Scientists who now dare to challenge these dates are ostracized from the scientific community - and if you are a scientist that believes in god - you are the worst of the worst.
Unfortunately, science is not the accurate science that they want us to believe - a lot of it is conjecture and cannot be proved - but it is accepted because there is a "consensus" amongst the learned.
So - I believe that this evidence of a flood goes back to the time of Noah and not to the dates the scientists are allocating to it.
There are also many good videos on youtube which show how they have refuted the dating of certain civilizations..... and rocks..... by the methods used today.  Scientists sent out the same rock samples to different university labs and most of the results came back putting the stones in widely different epochs!
JWs do not believe that the earth was created in literal 6 days because the Bible shows "all 6 days of creation is also called "a day" which indicates that it refers to a period of time. Read genesis.
I do not believe in evolution ..... they are regularly transplanting 'pig heart valves' into humans because the flesh of pigs  resemble our flesh closely - not that of apes.  So the scientific community has got that one wrong by a far shot.  I worked for my brother for a short while and can assure you I understand why Jehovah told the Jews not to eat pigs - they get infections very quickly - like humans. Sheep and other animals are a different kind of flesh and they do not get the same pernicious kind of infections.
Apart from this - the math does not equate.  The complexity of life makes each small little change in the human genome  - exponential. In fact one has to accept more miracles (exponentially) in evolution than the few mentioned in the Bible.  So,  many these exponential changes took place in what scientists call the "goldilocks age" .  This means that the environment had to be stable for a very long periods of time for these small incremental changes to happen for the better - and for the species to survive and adapt - it is  (like the name indicates) a fairy goldilocks story.
The bone record is scanty - and evolutionist know this and therefore there are more and more hoaxes being exposed - but they do not get much publicity these days.  There are very few fossil evidences of the various changes which took place in the evolution of all life into all the various branches of the tree of life.... and most of them consist of only a few bones and the rest is "beautiful drawings of how the scientists think they looked like". ....If these changes took place randomly - there are so many different  species - one should be able to see many fossils of ALL the various animals that did NOT survive the various stages - with the problems evident in the fossil.    It seems that wonderful organs appeared suddenly and functioned perfectly together with other organs in a remarkable way - more evidence of a creator I would say.
But while these complex organs were developing slowly over long periods of time.... it seems that the male and female organs suddenly developed in "one generation" for the species to "survive".   And to crown it all - if one studies the various forms of sexual organs (and there are many - believe me - the variations boggles the mind) then one finds that the various ones fit each other perfectly for the different species..... and these had to develop quickly and accurately for the species to survive.  The male and female developed separately but yet perfectly fitted - so the species could survive. .....
So the more I study and read about these things I am convinced of the " bias and superiority of many scientists" who put themselves above other humans and protect their cushy research jobs - and they like to look intellectual - like the Pharisees.  They have never learnt to think through all the aspects of evolution properly..... they are all like sheep following the mainstream. 
Each person must make up their mind about this but I urge people to make sure for themselves.  Think a little more about a few of the items I mentioned above. 
 
 

Isn't it more likely that just as lightning is visible from east to west, that Jesus' return WILL be visible and that's why we aren't to believe those who say, 'Look! Here is the Christ', or "There!' or 'He is in the wilderness.'  Because He will be visible to all, 'every eye will see Him.'

JWs are the only ones who make the claim. Everyone else on the planet doesn't. It's down to JWs to provide the evidence for their claim. Do you have evidence? Copying and pasting swathes of text from WT publications with the occasional assertion nestling within them (along the lines of 'it happened because faith') ISN'T EVIDENCE.
So Jesus was mistaken? You can calculate the time of his second presence ... kind of ... after the alleged event ... twice, because they miscalculated the first time ... but the second time is bang on ... honest.
Don't you properly read your own c&p quotes, Allen?
Doofus.
JWs believe it was a global flood, right? How did some ancient Australian aboriginal, sitting there with his kangaroo, witness the building of an ark on the other side of the world (which reminds me of another question but we won't go there now)? I don't even think the Egyptians got the memo since they were busy building their pyramids and stuff. Neither did the Chinese, who were apparently oblivious to what Noah was doing and were happily perfecting their exquisite pottery. The phrase in Matt. 24:39 that the NWT and rNWT render "took no note" is literally "not they knew" (check the Kingdom Interlinear) or "they knew not" and uses the same word (ginōskō) as is found in John 17:3, which the NWT rendered "taking in knowledge" but the rNWT now translates as "coming to know." Jesus is telling his disciples that, just like in Noah's day when people (all around the world, right?) didn't 'come to know' when the Flood would be - and Noah himself only got a week's notice (Gen. 7:1-10) - Jesus' second presence will also be unpredictable.

Thank you everyone – Holly, JWInsider, Melinda, and Eoin for your comments and for setting me aright as to the history of how Jesus is portrayed in the publications over the years.

There is no indication that Jesus tried to remove that crown of thorns. It remained on his head, and that served to highlight the issue at stake. No one was to be left in doubt.  w91 1/1 p. 9 “Look! The Man!

Today the misrepresentation of Jesus continues. Most people picture Jesus as a babe in a manger or as a tragic figure nailed to a cross, with his face distorted in agony under a crown of thorns. Christendom’s clergy have encouraged such views. ip-2 chap. 14 p. 198 par. 11

What contrasting comments, leaving a reader who does any research, somewhat confused, I would think.  So I ask, has the Watchtower now forgotten just how Christ was persecuted on our behalf?  Would it not be the priority to make known ALL that he suffered in bringing us the gift of life?   The chief priests balked at Pilate’s choice of words to be written and placed above the dying Jesus:

 And He, bearing His cross, went out to a place called the Place of a Skull, which is called in Hebrew, Golgotha,  where they crucified Him, and two others with Him, one on either side, and Jesus in the center.19 Now Pilate wrote a title and put it on the cross. And the writing was:

JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS.

Then many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.  Therefore the chief priests of the Jews said to Pilate, “Do not write, ‘The King of the Jews,’ but, ‘He said, “I am the King of the Jews.”’”   Pilate answered, “What I have written, I have written.”  John 19:17-22 NKJV

What else should be removed?  We know the symbolic meaning of this crown is a major sign of persecution put upon Christ, mentally, emotionally and spiritually - an oppression forced down onto him; and through such, we see his resulting reliance on the Father.  We can also see this through Paul’s words who suffered from a “thorn in the flesh”.  Interestingly, it is Christ who is speaking to him,

“And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.  And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.  Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.” 2 Cor 12:7-10

When looking at Christ’s example under such painful humiliation, we have a lesson to heed,

“My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.  But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.”  James 1:2-4

It is the thorn in the flesh that can makes us weak, if we allow it.  When learning to walk by spirit, and not by the sight of which we can behold with our eye (as one’s supposed salvation), we become unmovable when attacked by the prideful ridicule of others. The blessing of grace is sufficient for us.  Gal 5:16; Rom 8:14; Matt 26:41

 “above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.”  Eph 6:16

“But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.”  1 Thess 5:8

The persecution that Christ painfully bore in his weakness displayed the power of God upon his Son, and the crowning of his resulting glory. 

“But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.”  Heb 2:9

Each one us, in particular God’s anointed ones, must bear their own thorn in the flesh to magnify the power of Christ during the persecution the remnant experiences.  Rev 9 speaks of a swarm of stinging locust that comes upon God’s anointed ones prior to their being “sealed”.  Rev 9:1-11; 7:4

Although the Watchtower will say this locust swarm correlates with those in the “preaching work”, indeed it is a result of captivity to lies and the testing of one’s exclusive faith in God and Christ.  The “star” that releases these scorpion locusts is not Christ, since Christ would never “fall” from his heavenly position; but those anointed in Christ, very well could. 2 Pet 1:10

 “Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.”  Rev 2:10 (Luke 21:24; Col 2:8; Eph 6:12; Rev 13:10)


"Tails" "Stingers" "Scorpions"
 
 


 

 

 
 

As I said before, you have to first arrive/come to become present.
Imagine a roll call in a classroom.
The teacher calls, "Arauna?" No answer.
The teacher calls again. Nothing. "I'll note her down as absent ..."
A fellow student says, "Excuse me sir, Arauna is present. She's here." The teacher looks around then quizzically at her. The student continues, "She is present, it's just that she's not arrived at school yet."
Teacher and class go 

*** w14 2/15 p. 27 Questions From Readers ***
"Could the first-century Jews have calculated the time of the Messiah’s arrival on the basis of the prophecy of the 70 weeks recorded at Daniel 9:24-27? While that possibility cannot be ruled out, it cannot be confirmed. The fact is that there were many conflicting interpretations of the 70 weeks in Jesus’ day, and none come close to our present understanding."
The application of the '70 weeks' prophecy to Jesus was a later Christian interpretation - not a Jewish one.
The 1st century Christians believed Jesus was already ruling amidst his enemies in their day, from as soon as Jesus ascended to heaven and sat down at his Father's right hand. - Acts 2:34-37; Eph. 1:20, 21; Heb. 10:12, 13; Rev. 3:21.
A person has to 'arrive' or 'come' first in order to be 'present' or 'alongside.' One cannot be present without having first arrived.
Noah's contemporaries who were caught out by the Flood [literally] "did not know" when it would be, which is the whole point of Jesus likening those days to people not knowing the day and hour of Jesus' parousia.
 

LOL. All I'm saying, Arauna, is that you are prejudging and condemning the booklet without having read it.
For everyone's information, Walmart also sells exposés of the LDS church, Scientology, Catholicism and yes, Islam.

I guess this would come close:

And yet you haven't read the pamphlet. So you have no idea whether there is any truth or logic to what he argues or not.
Iirc, Campbell was moved eventually to write his pamphlets (there's another one I know about) after an encounter with a regular pioneer who made him think about and research his own evangelical beliefs. And don't forget he wrote this booklet in 1990. Some of his criticisms may be outdated as the Org has changed its mind on several doctrines since then. You never know, there may be a teaching or two Campbell and JWs agree on now! 

......Jesus said the world would hate his followers because of his name: Matthew 24:9 “Then people will deliver you up to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name."
Acts 4:18 With that they called them and charged them, nowhere to make any utterance or to teach upon the basis of the name of Jesus. 
Acts 5:27 So they brought them and stood them in the Sanhedrin hall. And the high priest questioned them 28 and said: “We positively ordered you not to keep teaching upon the basis of this name, and yet, look! You have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you are determined to bring the blood of this man upon us.” 
Acts 5:40 At this they gave heed to him, and they summoned the apostles, flogged them, and ordered them to stop speaking upon the basis of Jesus’ name, and let them go.
Remember, it was Jehovah's people, the Jews, who were the ones seeking to kill Jesus.  They provided the false witnesses against him, and they told the Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate, “His blood come upon us and upon our children.” 
 

As the Watchtower referenced above stated, "there were many conflicting interpretations of the 70 weeks in Jesus’ day, and none come close to our present understanding." The first chronological application of the 70 weeks to Jesus was made in the 3rd century CE by Julius Africanus.
There were other writings and chronological schemes apart from those in the book of Daniel that were fueling Jewish messianic expectations.
E.g. see the following articles:
http://www.livius.org/men-mh/messiah/messiah_14.html#Two_messiahs
http://www.livius.org/men-mh/messiah/messiah_15.html
Because ideas and interpretations varied so much, some Jews would have seen prophetic parallels with Jesus as a false messiah - especially when he made provocative statements that shook up the establishment. After all, Jesus wasn't the only 'messiah' knocking around at the time (cp. Acts 5:36, 37).
It's a matter of historical record that anyone can check for himself - not opinion.
In line with Holly's Scripture texts in the OP, which say Jesus' return cannot be calculated, the onus is on you as a JW defender to prove Christ did return and was enthroned in heaven in 1914. Go on. Give it your best shot.  

Hi Teresa, thanks for the reply.
It would appear then that you share Eoin Joyce's opinion that it really doesn't matter if the Gentile times ended in 1914 or not.  If it's wrong, your religious leaders will discover it and change what you believe about it.
What concerns me about 1914 is that the founder of your religion, Charles T. Russell, laid out seven events that would prove the scriptural accuracy of his predictions about 1914.  None of them occurred, so we know 1914 is not based on the Bible but on the opinions of men.  If it doesn't matter that they are wrong about 1914, does it matter that they[re wrong about other things, such as, say, the identity of the faithful slave?  They've been wrong about it three times already.  I mention this, not to change the subject, but just as a reminder of how closely tied it is to 1914 being the end of the Gentile times.
In my post above I listed several other teachings that would be wrong if the Gentile times did not end in 1914:
 
  Jesus did not become King in 1914, the Messianic kingdom was not born in 1914, the presence of Jesus did not begin in 1914, and no inspection took place between 1914 and 1919, therefore no appointment of a faithful slave took place in 1919.    
This also would affect the good news of the Kingdom that JWs are preaching---it's birth/establishment in heaven in 1914.  See, for instance, this remarkable claim on page 137 of the Proclaimers book:
 

If your opinion is not  that it really doesn't matter if the Gentile times ended in 1914 or not, could you clarify by stating clearly what your opinion is please.   
From what you've already posted, that is clearly what your opinion is.  
Isn't that why you said the Bible would still hold true even if 1914 doesn't, so it really doesn't matter if the Gentile times didn't end in 1914. 
Isn't that why you said you'd be sticking with the faithful ones in Hebrews 11 who  'received a favorable witness because of their faith', since to them, it really doesn't matter if the Gentile time didn't end in 1914.
Isn't that why you pointed out that "Jesus as Head of the Congregation is just as alert today as he was in the 1st Century", so it really doesn't matter if the Gentile times didn't end in 1914.
Isn't that why you said "Discussions and expectations about dates have presumably been going on one way or another ever since Jesus said he would return" so it really doesn't matter if the Gentile time didn't end in 1914.
And Isn't that why said "Jehovah's Witnesses continue to develop, grow, prosper, and seem to be successful in whatever they turn their hands to", so it really doesn't matter if the Gentile times didn't end in 1914.
Clearly that is what Teresa is saying, that she's ready and willing to adjust her thinking to brighter new spiritual light on this when it comes, so it really doesn't matter if the Gentile times didn't end in 1914.  

Your posts ARE expressing your personal opinions, Eoin.
And you're still saying the same thing you've been saying all along, i.e., it really doesn't matter if the Gentile times ended in 1914 or not.
By extension, then, it doesn't really matter to you if Jesus did not become King in 1914, the Messianic kingdom was not born in 1914, the presence of Jesus did not begin in 1914, and no inspection took place between 1914 and 1919, therefore no appointment of a faithful slave took place in 1919.
Someone once said that it was wise to examine not only what you personally believe but also what is taught by any church you may be associated with.  Of course this also may not really matter to you either. 
Perhaps in your next segment  you can explain why ships have lifeboats.

And your opinion that has been coming thru loud and clear in your posts is that it really doesn't matter if the Gentile times ended in 1914 or not.  If you have a different opinion than that, you should state it clearly instead of offering up analogies that end up saying the same thing your posts have been saying, to wit:  that it really doesn't matter if the Gentile times ended in 1914 or not.
It's your analogy, not mine, but it won't sail you away from the question in the OP.  

Baloney. His and his successor's conclusions about the timing of Jesus' presence was retrospective. His ideas about 1914's future relevance in Bible prophecy were wrong. His 'Divine Plan' chronological scheme was all but abandoned after his death, with Rutherford eventually only retaining the date 1914, spiritualizing what were supposed to have been physical events (i.e. the Gentile governments being crushed to smithereens in Dan. 2:44 style), and making some new ill-fated predictions of his own.

Arauna, the scriptures in my OP speak directly to the timing of Jesus' Second coming, or Presence:
Matthew 24:36-39 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. for the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.  For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Mark 13:32-37 "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come.  It is like a man away on a journey, who upon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge, assigning to each one his task, also commanded the doorkeeper to stay on the alert.  Therefore, be on the alert---for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning---in case he should come suddenly and find you asleep.  What I say to you I say to all, 'Be on the alert!'"
Acts 1:7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority.
I notice you've not commented on them yet.  Maybe you could do so now.

Your posts ARE expressing your personal opinions, Eoin.
And you're still saying the same thing you've been saying all along, i.e., it really doesn't matter if the Gentile times ended in 1914 or not.
By extension, then, it doesn't really matter to you if Jesus did not become King in 1914, the Messianic kingdom was not born in 1914, the presence of Jesus did not begin in 1914, and no inspection took place between 1914 and 1919, therefore no appointment of a faithful slave took place in 1919.
Someone once said that it was wise to examine not only what you personally believe but also what is taught by any church you may be associated with.  Of course this also may not really matter to you either. 
Perhaps in your next segment  you can explain why ships have lifeboats.

Your posts ARE expressing your personal opinions, Eoin.
And you're still saying the same thing you've been saying all along, i.e., it really doesn't matter if the Gentile times ended in 1914 or not.
By extension, then, it doesn't really matter to you if Jesus did not become King in 1914, the Messianic kingdom was not born in 1914, the presence of Jesus did not begin in 1914, and no inspection took place between 1914 and 1919, therefore no appointment of a faithful slave took place in 1919.
Someone once said that it was wise to examine not only what you personally believe but also what is taught by any church you may be associated with.  Of course this also may not really matter to you either. 
Perhaps in your next segment  you can explain why ships have lifeboats.

It's funny. I don't remember any of these phenomena mentioned in the Olivet discourse.
How do you know you will see it in your lifetime? The early Bible Students thought they would see it in their lifetimes as has each subsequent BS/JW generation after that. So how do you know that you and your generation will be the one?
And doesn't it bother anyone that the 'Gentiles' are still having their 'times' over 100 years after the' Gentile times' supposedly ended?
Really? Earthquakes, wars, pestilence, food shortages, persecution, evangelism and lawlessness have only occurred together in the 20th and 21st centuries?
But http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/westtech/x14thc.htm.
Define 'very short.'
Here are some different perspectives:
http://bigthink.com/the-evolution-of-enlightenment/the-world-is-getting-worse-and-other-lies
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/04/28/the-world-looks-like-its-getting-worse-heres-why-its-not/

Well, I'd be among the last one to tell you to keep clinging to an incorrect teaching such as the Gentile times ending in 1914, and it's good that you're open to changing your belief about it, even expecting to do so from the sounds of things.  That's the thing to do, isn't it, when a teaching you believed was based on the Bible turns out to be based instead on the speculations and expectations of men.
So, the Gentile times did not end in 1914, Jesus did not become King in 1914, the Messianic kingdom was not born in 1914, the presence of Jesus did not begin in 1914, and no inspection took place between 1914 and 1919, therefore no appointment of a faithful slave took place in 1919.
You can see the domino effect dropping 1914 would have, which might be why it hasn't been changed yet.

This holy priesthood is, of course, the Body of Christ made up of all anointed ones.  Both Acts 1:8 and Col. 1:23 show how each one is to use the power of Holy Spirit given them to preach the message of Jesus Christ, continuing in the faith of Jesus Christ, thus being “grounded and steadfast, not moved away from the gospel which you heard”, said the apostle Paul. 

Is this true in the organization?  Are they able to use their availability to the Holy Spirit and at the same time obey the GB?

“They (the anointed ones) know that Jehovah does not necessarily give anointed ones more holy spirit than he gives his other servants. And they do not feel that they can understand Bible truths more deeply than anyone else.” Wt 1/2016 

I would like to know what an anointed one thinks of this statement – a chosen one by God who received an anointing of Holy Spirit at a particular time; a physical and spiritual event unlike any other that this one has experienced.  The apostles felt it, all that were anointed at the time felt the power of Holy Spirit, and down through the ages.  Is it any different today?  No!  

 Mal 2:7 - “For the lips of a priest should keep knowledge,
And people should seek the law from his mouth;
For he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.

 “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.”  John 14:25,26

“For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God”  Col 1:9,10

What is different, is that an evil slave has decided to “beat” his fellow slaves, God’s chosen ones in Christ, by demanding silence through teaching only what is written, and demanding that changed doctrine be swallowed down without complaint. 

Why does this evil slave turn on his brothers?  Because he says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ What other group of anointed ones but the GB has continually changed the date of Christ’s coming?

He “begins to eat with drunkards”.  God explains:

But they also have erred through wine,
And through intoxicating drink are out of the way;
The priest and the prophet have erred through intoxicating drink,
They are swallowed up by wine,
They are out of the way through intoxicating drink;
They err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

For all tables are full of vomit and filth;
No place is clean. Isa 28:7,8

“In the past, we thought that the great tribulation began in 1914 when World War I started. We thought that Jehovah “cut short” those days in 1918 when the war ended so that the remaining anointed ones on earth could preach the good news to all nations. (Matthew 24:21, 22) After that preaching work would be completed, we expected that Satan’s world would be destroyed. So we thought that there were three parts to the great tribulation. It would begin in 1914, it would be interrupted in 1918, and it would finish at Armageddon.”  “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be” ws13 7/15 pp. 3-8 

Yet still, God’s chosen ones and all sheep must obey what is taught - what is thought as right in the space of time.

“Whom will he teach knowledge?
And whom will he make to understand the message?
Those just weaned from milk?
Those just drawn from the breasts?

 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little, That they might go and fall backward, and be broken
And snared and caught.”  Isa 28:9,10

What are we to obey, but God’s laws as outlined by Christ?

In the NKJV, this word for precept means - “command, ordinance, oracle (meaning dubious)”, while the Hebrew word translated precept in Ps 119:4 means “properly, appointed, i.e. a mandate (of God; plural only, collectively, for the Law):—commandment, precept, statute.”  Clearly, the GB burden the sheep with their own precepts instead of those from God’s, as erring ones of the past did also.

Ephraim is oppressed and broken in judgment,
Because he willingly walked by human precept.  Hos 5:11

Are such changed teachings evidence of the power of Holy Spirit within these men?  Are they grounded and steadfast in the gospel?  If they were, would there be any reason to rethink set dates surrounding a set belief in 1914, the supposed arrival of Christ?

“Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scornful men,
Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem, (New Jerusalem, spiritual “Jews”)
 Because you have said, “We have made a covenant with death,
And with Sheol we are in agreement.
When the overflowing scourge passes through,
It will not come to us,
For we have made lies our refuge,
And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves.”

 

 

 

 

 

This was a brief speculation made on another forum, but got me thinking about why it must be so.  In all pictures of Christ when dying, he is depicted in the Watchtower magazines without the crown of thorns. I believe I have not run across this in any other such drawn description of the time of Jesus' dying and death.  There appears to be no scriptural reason behind its removal.  What is the reason?

It's not just apostates and other opposers who would say that the destruction of Jerusalem was within a year or two of 587 BCE.
It's easily about 99% of everyone who has studied the currently available archaeology and the evidence. There is still no evidence that it could be anywhere near 607 BCE. The idea of 607 was promoted by some Adventists who influenced C.T.Russell to accept the date. Today only JWs and a few remaining Russellites and Adventists hold to a date near 607. In fact, over the years, even Adventists who have studied the evidence have had to become "apostates" to their original Adventist belief.
Also, there were at least 3 members of the Governing Body, at least one since 1974 and at least one since 1978 who also didn't believe that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607, and at least one who later admitted he had problems with that belief while writing the Aid Book article on chronology (admitting this in a book from around 1983 after being disfellowshipped.) There was at least one additional member of the GB who may or may not have believed in 607 but who didn't believe we were correct in saying that the generation had started counting in 1914. I worked for that same "one additional member" from 1977 to 1982. In 1980, he was able to get the two other members of the GB Chairman's committee to sign onto a proposal that would have moved the start of "that generation" from 1914 to 1957. That would have brought the total members of the GB who had in some way expressed doubts about 1914 from 4 to 6. There may have been others, but I have never heard that any others had said anything to anyone, if that were the case.
I knew the beliefs of two of these GB members personally, and learned of one other from his book after he was disfellowshipped. A very close friend and confidant told me of the beliefs of the 4th member. 
I have no idea what the current members of the Governing Body believe about 1914 and/or 607 BCE, but I do personally know one member of the current Writing Department who does not believe that either of those dates are related to Daniel's prophecy.
I know that the implication that it's "apostates and other opposers" actually comes from the link you provided where that same wording is used in the introduction. But I don't believe it is right, because it implies that even members of the Governing Body could be counted among these same apostates and opposers.
Also, I should add that those links you provided are full of false claims, false information, and specious reasoning. 
 

It was prepared soon after those 2011 articles came out - pretty much c&p'ed from my files. 
Absolutely. This is important, and very often missed/ignored by those JWs who try to find similar '70 years' interpretations among Bible scholars and classical historians: 'Such-a-body from [distant] century also counted 70 years from 607 or 606 BCE just like us, so there is scholarly support for our position.' But actually, 'such-a-body' thought 607/606 BCE was the beginning of Neb's reign - not the year of Jerusalem's destruction, so 'such-a-body' doesn't support the JW position. If memory serves, only those who have been associated with the Watchtower Society in some way count the '70 years' from Neb's 18th year and Jerusalem's destruction
Thanks for expanding on the copyist error problem too - very helpful.
Kurt  - the two links you provided ... well, certainly the first one (I'm less familiar with the second) ... contains much misinformation. If you or anyone wants to know why, please refer to this LINK.