Anna

i hadn't ever thought of that as a problem to watch out for, but hopefully i will remember this to avoid future issues. Or ME I meant as well, lol. I just realized I made it sound like I was saying you can't comment on posts addressed to me. You should know me better than that Well then, lets blame @TrueTomHarley. Why is he even asking these questions. I think I know why, apparently we are reaching the "lets be silly and post memes and ad hominuuuuums" stage in the discussion... It's funny reading your posts with no capitalization on the I. I don't know if I can take you seriously. It's like trying to listen to someone delivering a somber speech with spinach stuck between their teeth.

Sure. I didn't even see that comment. But the post you commented on was addressed to me. Of course I'm not saying you can't comment on posts addressed to other people, but I was just wondering why you had to mention that, since we are supposed to be discussing topics and ideas rather than people and their motives and levels of competence. That's all. But sometimes I guess those things are inseparable.

I already had that figured out, as might have others. But I don't think it's fair you state it.

You know that do you?

Ok, but I don't think that really answered my question. Just because someone says they will tell you what the Bible REALLY says doesn't guarantee they are telling you the truth does it.

So what convinced you it was the Truth?

If you don't mind me asking, how? I spent YEARS of my life searching for the truth in other religions. So what was the KEY that finally helped you to find the Truth?

It's funny, but our love and zeal can get misplaced without accurate knowledge! As you know, there are many persons of other religions who have love and zeal but not according to what we say is accurate knowledge. If you don't mind me asking, how?

I think what you mean is that we should not allow head knowledge to override our emotional attachment to Jehovah?

My FEELINGS are - you are wrong. Most know how we get there but have more to do with their time than spend days in front of their computers in forums like this trying to score points for themselves..... because this is not edifying to anyone but the persons who think they can discredit the slave... it is not purely an academic exercise - do not be fooled!.. Hmmmm......I beg to differ. How about we both ask a number of friends a simple question at the KH this Sunday or in a field service group: "do you know how to explain why we believe 1914 and 607?" In any case, it looks like you are trying to evade the question by implying that understanding how we come to 1914 (and 607) requires too much time and that one has better things to do (which actually confirms what I said, that most don't really know) and also you are detracting from the question by implying that those who do this, are really just trying to discredit the Slave and score points for themselves on a discussion forum. I can't say anything about what was said under another heading, but I do know that the question that arose a number of times was if WT accepts 537, then why does it not accept 587, if both dates are verifiable by the same astronomical/historical l sources. I am not here to score points either, (and if anyone is, well then they are to be pitied because what real value does collecting points from complete strangers who have no impact on your real, outside the internet, life have?). I am not trying to prove the Slave are deceivers, but how would you explain to someone what I posted earlier but you never commented on. It was in answer to your comment: " Faith is important - but Jehovah knew that us simple folks - we always need small steps to look forward to and he lovingly gave it to us.... and what is more.. the proof of the pudding is the eating....... world events since 1914 has proven that it is a 'reality'...... We will soon be seeing the last prophecies regarding Babylon the great, the call to peace and security...and the 8th king in action.... as a matter of fact - religions seem to be riding the beast as we speak...." And my reply was: "BUT that does not mean the dates and numbers and lengths of periods we simple folks put together are always correct are they? What has happened to the millions that were not supposed to die? (they did). What has happened to the generation that was not supposed to pass away? (they have, practically) What has happened to the children that were not supposed to even finish school in this system? (they did, and they have children of their own). What has happened to the world that can't get any worse? (it did, and still might)". Religions seem to be riding the beast as we speak, but there have been many signs before that, that actually turned out NOT to be the sign To be fair, this topic here "607 B.C.E. - Is it Biblically Supported" really does call for secular,/scholarly knowledge because it is an academic subject. No matter how noble feelings are, they still have no impact on whether something is true or false. And I cannot somehow connect a date with love for Jehovah, especially if there is a possibility that the date could be completely erroneous. I think those people have been paying attention to the signs on the ground. Probably since they first learned about them. Indeed, the Amaharets. And it is a consolation to me that even if we are totally wrong about Christ's enthronement in 1914 and it takes another 2000 years for Armageddon to come, surely Jehovah will look upon us that we, the Amaharets, did our best to follow in the footsteps of Christ, by preaching the Kingdom and by living our life in harmony with God's moral standards. Surely Jehovah will recognize that the majority of Christ's sheep are unable to verify or understand everything the Bible, or what the Slave presents, like the Beoreans were able to. I can't imagine a missionary in Peru being overly concerned about Neo Babylonian chronology. Surely it is sufficient that these ones have verified the fundamental truths. And those who desire and are able to delve deeper into the academic side of this particular issue, and in all honesty find discrepancies with 607, surely they will not be disqualified? Thankfully, Jehovah is the reader of hearts. However, if those who have taken upon themselves the responsibility to disseminate spiritual food to the Amaharets, and they feed falsehood, they will be judged severely, for obvious reasons. So really, we have nothing to be worried about. For the Amaharets and those "academics/scholars" who are pure in heart and motive it's a win win situation isnÂ’t it? Â

Yes I do, but you do realize not everyone has the opportunity to study chronology for themselves, I mean really study. Not only that, but going to original sources for this kind of research is not really encouraged by the Slave. Of course we both know that Gerard does not support 607. I assume you are not mentioning that aspect because that would only confirm what I said before; Witnesses are judged by whether they believe in 607 or not. The fact is he WAS a witness at one time but as you say, his present status is uncertain. But why are we doubting his Witness status in the first place? Why does the fact that he does not support 607 automatically change his status from being a brother to maybe not being a brother?

Well, that could be another alternative. But it doesn't make any difference to those who will keep on doing God's will no matter what.

I agree with a lot of your sentiments, but I find this statement of yours really strange. I believe you may not have meant to write it this way. We only find out about Jehovah through the Bible (and creation). We can make idols out of what he has created, but to make an idol out of his inspired word? How would that be possible? Without his word we wouldn't even know his will would we? We love Jehovah by loving his word surely. There are many scriptures that show approval of people loving his laws. Can we say we love his laws more than we love him? Wouldn't you say the two are intrinsically tied together.

Will someone post page 208?

That could be a good "Question from readers". Why don't you send it in?

I just can't bring myself to understand this to mean that they are attempting to copyright the Bible. I mean when they say they are the exclusive source of spiritual food, who do you think they are talking to? Surely not people in general? Do you think that Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Catholics etc. view our publications and the website as true spiritual food? So aren't they logically just talking to Jehovah's Witnesses? And it's nothing new when they say the Slave is the source the of true spiritual food. We wouldn't go to a Catholic website (for example) for spiritual food would we? So they are saying to Witnesses that only those websites and apps they cite in the article are the real and official ones, and that if you want spiritual food, those are the real and official sources of it. Not some Joe Witness who has set up his own, and plastered it with jw.org logos and Caleb and Sophia images, which he shouldn't have because they are copyrighted, for the very reason to prevent people like him from doing what he did and inadvertently causing gullible Witnesses to assume his website came straight from Bethel. Funny. People can discuss whatever they like, as long as they don't misquote the org. But there is such a thing as "fair use" as well https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html

Also, I like the new system at our midweek meeting for "sample conversations" which will now be formatted to systematically develop one Bible thought at a time, from the initial call trough to the first and second return visit. Except Br. Lett. He loves selfies with the friends. I can attest to that as he was present at one of our circuit assemblies and my friend took one with him. There was a whole long line waiting to do the same thing. Ironically it was after one of those talks about Idol worship, or something like that. As we passed our friends, my husband and I said to each other loudly so they would hear "see those Idol worshipers". It's OK, they know us well and laughed. We like to rib people.

But you know it’s no excuse to say “the devil made me!" (made me do something bad). So even though the whole world is under the influence of the devil, people can still chose to do the right thing . But to analyze the statement you made; people want peace, but the problem is they want it on their terms. This is where the devil's influence comes into play. Do you think that such traits as pride, nationalism, racism, lack of self control etc. contribute to actual peace? Those are the devil's traits and the world is saturated with them. There will be no peace as long as people refuse to clothe themselves with “a Christ like personality”. We can take the concept of “free will” into the realms of philosophy, and it gets very complicated. I believe common sense triumphs over philosophy any day, in that it’s actually useful and practical! I am just talking about the good old classic free will, where I decide to do something regardless of whether I was deceived or guilted (or whatever) into it. In my opinion, one has accepted the true concept of free will when one also accepts the consequences of it, and quits blaming deception, guilt, cognitive dissonance, imperfection or “whatever” for making a particular decision. Although you meant Peter (as @Melinda Mills pointed out) the apostle Paul did lament the effects of imperfection in Romans 7:15-21. However, he was not just washing his hands off the whole problem and blaming imperfection for his decisions if they were wrong, what he was doing was acknowledging that it was a frequent battle to do the right thing, and he pointed out that one can win that battle with God's help. Peter denied Jesus 3 times. No one made him do it. He was not under Satan's influence. It was his own weakness, and fear of man, his imperfection, just like what Paul mentions, that caused him to fail for a few moments. It was still his choice at that moment though and I don't recall him putting the blame on anyone or anything else for that choice.

The only problem with those is when used in the wrong setting they are distracting and take away from the real issue. It's annoying when the messenger is attacked, instead of the message.

How many worldly people do this? No, I actually meant friends in the truth. I understand, but maybe you did not read my other post to you* where I mention that I haven't seen you presenting any valid counter arguments which could convince an unbiased observer to side with your explanation. What I said was that your arguments would not stand up in trial.  It's like the opposition is talking about apples and you are talking about oranges. The opposition is talking about dates (not the fruit ) and numbers, and you are talking about feelings and motives and evidence on the ground.... How is that? As far as I know, probably more than 90% of the friends (Jehovah's Witnesses) do not understand 1914, or to be more specific, do not understand how we arrive at 1914, and don't even try. Yes. Us simple folks need numbers. Numbers are nice. People like numbers and dates. They help to tangibly anchor ideas or situations in the stream of time. Without dates it's just not the same. Try reading a biography or a report without them. And of course not to mention the fact that dates are essential for establishing time periods in history and a billion other things. Jehovah is the arbiter of time, and is the great timekeeper. BUT that does not mean the dates and numbers and lengths of periods we simple folks put together are always correct are they? What has happened to the millions that were not supposed to die? (they did). What has happened to the generation that was not supposed to pass away? (they have, practically) What has happened to the children that were not supposed to even finish school in this system? (they did, and they have children of their own). What has happened to the world that can't get any worse? (it did, and still might) As you say, the proof is in the pudding. So that is why, when the rubber hits the road, we need to have faith in Jehovah, not man. (*I wish the posts were numbered so that they could be easily referenced @admin @The Librarian)

Well Ann, I've got news for you No one on earth can make anyone do something that they donÂ’t want to do. This has been proved throughout history, when even under duress, and with the threat of death, people have stood their ground. As you know, only Jehovah can make people do what he wants, but he has only done so on extremely rare occasions under specific circumstances. He created us with a free will and wants us to use that free will. We are completely free to make choices in our lives. But the problem lies in people having a hard time accepting consequences.Â

Sounds like a fun group!

Or the knees did not measure up to the required standard of quality for female legs, and so had to be covered up.

Yes, the skirts on the right have been photo-shopped to go over he knees of the sisters. I suppose some brothers were getting....ummmm...a little..... excited..... at seeing knees?