TrueTomHarley

I have never heard of this fellow. What’s with him? I read once in Look Magazine (if you know of it, please please please cite the issue) that Covington was unique in that he could “sass” the Supreme Court Justices and get away with it. Did Moyle argue any before the Supreme Court?

I don’t like the present series of tracts, but that does not mean that they are no good. I am very far from being typical. Nobody on this forum that claims to be a Witness is typical. I’m just carrying on some because I would love to see the ministry more fruitful that what it seems to me to be. I and many others here write more in a day that most people write in a month. So I can hardly expect the tracts to cater to me. The last CO cited figures from somewhere that the average youngster today spends 7 minutes with print (as opposed to 10 hours or so on some form of screen time) Going simple is obviously the way to go. The fact that I do not like it does not mean that it is not just the ticket for reaching the majority. Education is usually a last-place priority in today’s world. 1/6 of the world’s population cannot read. Most people barely know that these persons exist, and count them as nothing. Watchtower produces simplified versions of material already written simple so as to reach them. I defend the use of (vastly) simplified writing, even as I do not personally like it. “They can learn to read a few grade levels beneath them, if they are not too full of themselves,” is a line I put somewhere. I’ve learned to work around what is unpalatable to me, telling the high-brow people to consider this or that bit of writing as an outline, nothing more. Or telling them to not worry about whether this or that in the Bible is literal, but instead to take it as a metaphor and see if they can discern the underlying meaning of it. Mathematicians do something similar all the time: assume that this or that condition is true just to see where that assumption leads them. If it proves fruitful, then they come back and reconsider any initial objection to it. Just after 911, when people were unusually subdued, I grabbed that tract ‘Who Really Rules the World’ and had several good discussions with it. I’ve always liked Luke 4 for its clear explanation of Jesus declining Satan’s offer of gov’t control but acquiescing that it lay in his power to make the offer. Yes. There is a place for tracts. Everyone here beefs about everything under the sun, so I have joined in on what is our main mission—the ministry. I probably shouldn’t. It really is true that ‘bad association spoils useful habits.’ I’ll put it all on this thread and then do my best to zip it. The Bible is not a template for democracy, with every Tom Dick and Harry telling HQ how it ought to be.

Even Jesus used an expression for dogs, softening it to “little dogs”—puppies. That’s probably what I had in mind.

Having dispensed with the second part of this, let me go to the first. I did not say that you were mentally ill. I have said that any mental health professional would say that the type of thinking that you were displaying at the moment (most typically “all or nothing” thinking) is unhealthy. That is not the same thing. You also have to realize that I do not regard mentally ill as a pejorative label, and more than I would regard diabetic as one.

I gave an upvote here, and everyone knows that I am stingy with them. I don’t think I have ever given a downvote. My upvote is conditional. I am assuming that little bit of Latin does not translate into “TrueTom is a fink.”

Yes. When I signed on many years ago. They didn’t sneak up out of nowhere. Their role was known to me and everyone else from Day 1. That is why you are not a Witness. Everything is exactly as it should be. Given how you feel, you have done exactly as you should. Yes. Every Witness takes about a year to do that, studying and trying things on for size. Throughout, they are in their familiar home environment and routine. Perhaps 5% of their time is spent in unfamiliar surroundings. College is far more “manipulative” than anything with a Witness connection. Students are typically separated 24/7 from their former stabilizing routine, environment, and family—a classic tool of those who would brainwash. Plus, if you study with Jehovah’s Witnesses, you know full well that you are going off the grid—the very opposite of what brainwashers do. Going to college, on the other hand, is no more controversial than seeking good healthcare. You keep playing this as though it were your trump card, the coup de grace—as though it was something meant to be hidden. They are very open about it. They have called it “tacking.” As you say, they have called it “new light.” Don’t you think that means there used to be “old light?” Not usually. Maybe never. I said that your last bit of reasoning was infantile. I said that because it was. I didn’t say you were. Not totally, no. No one here, to my knowledge, is calling for anyone’s execution. It is what they stand for that is the target. Everyone knows that. Not everything that you say is silly. I have acknowledged that some points you have raised are valid. Not always to your face, because you are such a pit bull. But I have put them in other writings.

“but, to you who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.” 2 Thess 1:7-8 I’m not one to pound verses like this to death, but there is something to be said for not misrepresenting scripture, particularly when you claim to own it, presume to explain it for everyone else’s benefit, and quote it more than everyone else here combined.

In the spirit of full disclosure: I wanted my online name to be just Tom Harley, but I found that it was already taken on various platforms. So I thought of RealTomHarley, but I didn’t want to be confused with Trump. So I settled on TrueTomHarley. It has a certain ring to it that squares with us referring to the faith as “the truth,” but I did not choose it for that reason.

This is so silly. It is so infantile. Every project needs leadership. Once you grant persons that leadership, you refrain from undercutting them at every step. Why in the world should that be so hard to understand? You don’t set 15 rows back and swipe at the bus driver, “you missed that turn, you could have avoided that pothole, you hit the brakes too hard, why didn’t you know there was a roadblock ahead?” You know that the roads are poorly maintained, that the route is unfamiliar, and that the weather is terrible.” There are any number of things I am not crazy about with regard to the theocratic organization. If you read with any sort of critical skills you would know that. That does not mean that when I appear on a forum where the majority seek its destruction and level one attack on it after another, I will say “you know, you’ve raise a good point there.”

The suggestion to lead with a scripture is not something original on my part. From time to time it has been suggested by the theocratic organization. I have run with it as a staple more than is usually emphasized, but the idea is not mine. I mean, how can it be going off on one’s own tangent by leading with a scripture? If one finds that it works well. one tends to do it more and more, and that has been the case with me. Similarly, the working with the video ‘Would You Like Good News’? which leads to the ‘Good News From God’ table of contents & the invitation to the householder to choose any one he/she likes was not my idea at all. That came from the circuit overseer on his last visit. I was at almost every meeting for field service and he worked to make us all familiar with how videos could be used. Not once did he mention the current CLAM presentation of ‘Where are the Dead?’ Was he going off on his own tangent & thinking he knew better than God’s organization? No, he is just showing that there are a lot of ways to present the good news and he was putting emphasis on a method that works well. Q: Recently I went out with one of our elders and was a little disappointed when he was only delivering tracts. He was not trying to initiate conversation at all. Q2: Different ones will often fall back on old habits, even bad ones (and even Elders). Q2, I am going to be very very bold here and suggest that if he is merely offering tracts and making no effort to start conversations it is because he finds the suggested presentations cumbersome and awkward, and he would benefit by trying the scripture-first or the video one. I mean, he is an elder. He wants to be seen taking the lead. Everyone varies the pace and settings vary, as does one’s mood on any given day. Yet limiting one’s ministry to offering tracts with no effort to converse is faithful, but it is not taking the lead, and unless I am very mistaken, his conscience is letting him hear about it (unless he has switched into auto-pilot, turning it off.) One disadvantage of some of the CLAM presentations is that they require getting one’s head around. They require preparation. One advantage of the scripture-first or the Would You Like to Hear Good News presentation is that they do not—to just read a verse with a sentence or two as to why you chose it is not hard. We all know the experience of working with a new presentation and the first householder or two becomes a lab rat while we work the bugs out. The problem is gone with scripture or video first. Q3: I also try to talk about something that is interesting to any person, to cite a scripture and direct the person to our website at the end of the presentation Yes. Whatever works. By all means give the suggested presentations a try, even a workout if you like, but don’t feel that they must be adhered to in order to be following Jehovah’s direction.

Around here it is my way or the HWHY, John. Get used to it. The Librarian (that old hen) like me better than you.

Like cultured people fleeing a fart in the concert hall, they can’t get it out of their Bibles quick enough.

Hmmm. Is the lesson here to run like mad when the nurse comes with meds because they may be made in China... or to run like double-mad because they may not? FD: I am not a fan of too many meds, having had not so good experiences: https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2017/04/should-pharma-be-expected-to-cut-its-own-throat.html

It may be just as well. The same people who carry on about chemical & pharmaceutical & food pollution also carry on about 5G, far more intense than 4G, and impossible to get away from. Watch those Chinese to see if they light up.

I hear this so often from businesses themselves, not just the government, that I accept it as true. That doesn’t mean that, having done so, they might not use whatever intellectual property they have hijacked to build upon. I also think it will be a difficult point to negotiate away. If what I know about communism is true, there is no private intellectual property, nor private property of any sort. The property of one person is in theory the property of all.

I do respect that for the sake of showing guts. I really do. I would appreciate it if you would go by James. Or, just tell me if you insist upon Tom and I will go to James. I am really curious. Can it really be, with you being so open and all, that you have triggered no sanctions in the congregation? You never let on that you have, one time relating a current field service experience when you were packing a gun and the sisters commented how they should fell safe. As deliberately as offensive, accusatory, and outrageous as you are—have you truly never heard about it? As an experiment, I am going to quote a Bible passage that was recently cited on our weekly program. See if you can spot the words I have cleverly substituted (look very hard). Looking intently at the Sanʹhe·drin Paul said: “Men, brothers, I have behaved before God with a perfectly clear conscience down to this day.” At this the high priest An·a·niʹas ordered those standing by him to strike him on the mouth. Then Paul said to him: “God is going to strike you, you whitewashed wall. Do you at one and the same time sit to judge me in accord with the Law and, transgressing the Law, command me to be struck?” Those standing by said: “Are you reviling the high priest of God?” And Paul said: “You lying son of a b***h! I’ll revile you if I want, you odious fool! Your mother’s midwife probably slapped her instead of you!!!” There. Did you catch it? Honestly, why don’t you be more like Paul actually was?

Not everyone does. The notion of living a happy life (see above photo) does not strike many as being such a bad thing. There are many people who do not have it at all and it is not necessarily clear to all where it is to be found, or even if it is to be found. Some will be curious as to what is our formula for it. They may or may not cotton to what they read but it can hardly be a horrendous thing to offer it for their examination.

It is what a congregation is apt to do if they want to participate in cart witnessing but there is little foot traffic anywhere in their assigned territory. They always opt for foot traffic whenever it is available. I think it is being phased out due to exactly the concerns you mentioned. It always did strike me as a little silly and not too effective.

Perhaps it is appropriate here. When you single-mindedly hone in on one and one thing only, time and time and time again, and you ignore much greater examples of that evil in any other place, I think it becomes an appropriate possibility to float. That does not mean that there is any shame in it, necessarily, any more than in any other type of health woe—unless you actively aggravate it, like the fellow with bad arteries who stuffs himself full of chips.

“My territory is part of a large metro area and is apathetic and unintested. Middle class suburb that has achieved the American dream.” Karen, you never know. Recently my wife and friend approached people at the service station. Her friend’s first contact was dismissive. So was my wife’s first contact. But the second person her friend spoke with said, “I think you must have been sent to me.” He spoke of his 16-year-old daughter who is trying to help a friend and it is starting to take a toll on her. “Well, we do have a website that offers a lot of practical help and...” my wife’s friend began and showed the magazine online Is Life Worth Living, which greatly interested the man. It turned out that my wife had a paper copy (they were working separately) and the friend sent her niece (they were a threesome) back to see if the fellow wanted it. (He did) “I know how hard it is to be 16,” the 16-year old niece said. The day prior my wife was making return visits with another sister who didn’t have any so my wife was pulling out all the stops. Being right in the area, she stopped in where a once seemingly interested woman had told her not to return because the boyfriend was opposed. “Maybe the creepy boyfriend has moved out,” my wife said. She spoke with the woman who answered the door, and got a puzzled expression on her face, and my wife realized that both of them had moved out and this was someone new. So she explained what she had been doing and the woman told her that her husband’s friend had just taken his life. This, too, made the magazine Is Life Worth Living? just the right food at the right time. These experiences are many. Don’t assume that the fancy suburbs are immune to them. They are not. The facades just hide the problems inside. Do what you are doing, friendly as can be. If it is safe, work alone from time to time, with a companion just within sight, or even all by yourself—it helps you think of your ministry and nothing else. Don’t worry about English being your second language. If anyone puts you down for not being polished, agree with them. It is ordinary people that make up the congregations. It always has been. “For you behold his calling of you, brothers,” the apostle wrote at 1 Corinthians 1:26, “that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth.” Say to whoever you must: “It would be nice to have sent someone smoother, but they are not available, so you are stuck with me.” What does Srecko or Jack have to offer on these matters? What might they reply? That there are agencies? That there are anti-depressants? People routinely fall through the cracks of sieve-like agencies, and they do not necessarily help long term (and sometimes even short) even when they are firing on all cylinders. What people need is a fresh way of thinking to help them cope, and a source of power greater than themselves. They may or may not grab hold of what we offer, but it is certainly well to offer it. The JW year text for the present year is Isaiah 41:10: “Do not be anxious, for I am your God.” The year text of the greater world? So far as I can tell, it is “S**t happens. Maybe we can hold someone accountable and make them take responsibility.” I like ours better. Last year it was “S**t happens. Maybe we can vote out these current turkeys and vote in a new crop of politicians who will fix things.” I forget what the JW one was for last year, but I do remember that I liked it better.

“As it is, it is the most common thing in the world to hear of this or that perpetrator picked up who already went though the system that you think is so foolproof—he was already on the sex offender registry, living just down the street and nobody knew it.“ The Economist Magazine tells of one proposed law in Georgia that said no convicted child abuser could live within 1000 yards of a school. It was discarded when someone with a compass did some work and determined that it meant they couldn’t live anywhere.

“An example” is not a tidal wave. And JWI says he knows of...what...three or four? (Billy is choking on his coffee right now) Also hardly a tidal wave. In an ever-replenishing group currently at 8 million, you are going to find many examples of anything. You think in such absolutes, John. You cannot do that with people. Any mental health professional will tell you that it only makes trouble for you. You hone in like a laser on any report of CSA among JWs and publicly say that you care not a whit when it is reported anywhere else. How balanced is that? What is your interest here? When the world you have chosen gets a handle on CSA, then come screaming at everyone here. As it is, it is the most common thing in the world to hear of this or that perpetrator picked up who already went though the system that you think is so foolproof—he was already on the sex offender registry, living just down the street and nobody knew it. Meanwhile, nearly ALL of the attention given to CSA in the greater world is about punishing after the fact. Little is about prevention. Consider that the JW worldwide convention in 2017 gathered every member in the world to spell out detailed scenarios in which CSA might occur, so that parents, the obvious first line of defense, might be vigilant. NOBODY else has done that. I do allow that a ‘culture’ should change in which some, although free to report CSA, declined to do it. I agree with JWI that the May Wt goes a long way in clarifying that. I have allowed here that the ones so zealous to “keep the congregation clean” have in some respects made the situation worse: https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/04/lessons-to-be-learned-re-child-sexual-abuse.html

It hasn’t stopped any accusations of the rank and file and allegations that elders are trying to “cover it up” has it? If they are not hesitant to accuse of cover-up, why not accuse them of doing it, which is juicier? No, John, you are reaching for straws, trying to manufacture a “reality” that does not exist. Why do we hear nothing about bestiality of members, or of elders? Hmm? What sort of shenanigans is that? Possibly because it doesn’t happen. Duh

You, too, like John, appear to be in search of a “true” anointed one. You have found her, right here on the WorldwideMediaNews. And you didn’t even have to search.

Accusations against elders are very rare—the rotter in San Diego being a notable exception, as is brought out in the following post. https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/02/the-reproach-of-child-sexual-abuse-falls-on-the-abu.html