35 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

The attitude portion is what He was speaking about in Matt23:15

Jesus wasn't speaking of (hell) in Matthew 23:15.....   the lake of fire is symbolism for everlasting destruction.  It's known as Gehenna and that is why the Greek calls it Gehenna.   Now, if you would like to provide a quote of scripture stating that he was actually speaking about (hell) the scripture would say so. I open to listen to it.  But this far you simply cite a verse you make the claim he was speaking about (hell) when he wasn't.  If the lake of fire is (hell) then it wouldn't be called Gehenna in the Greek.  Still waiting.......   Gehenna is the Greek name for the Valley of Hinnom, southwest of ancient Jerusalem. (Jer 7:31) It was prophetically spoken of as a place where dead bodies would be strewn. (Jer 7:32; 19:6) There is no evidence that animals or humans were thrown into Gehenna to be burned alive or tormented. So the place could not symbolize an invisible region where human souls are tormented eternally in literal fire. Rather, Gehenna was used by Jesus and his disciples to symbolize the eternal punishment of “second death,” that is, everlasting destruction, annihilation.—Re 20:14; Mt 5:22; 10:28.

God has One Name but many titles.  Allah is not God's Name but simply means God.  Therefore Allah is a title like God is a title.  Elohim another title meaning gods in the plural sense.  Adonai another title meaning Lord. 

https://jehovahwitnessqhub.wordpress.com/2017/07/11/who-would-want-to-hide-gods-name/

Isaiah 42:8 Darby Translation (DARBY)

⁸ I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Who would reject the Baptism in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ? The Answer may surprise you.  In fulfillment of prophecy Jesus stated, “And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14)

The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263:“The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century.”

“The Demonstratio Evangelica” by Eusebius: Eusebius was the Church historian and Bishop of Caesarea. On page 152 Eusebius quotes the early book of Matthew that he had in his library in Caesarea. According to this eyewitness of an unaltered Book of Matthew that could have been the original book or the first copy of the original of Matthew. Eusebius informs us of Jesus’ actual words to his disciples in the original text of Matthew 28:19: “With one word and voice He said to His disciples: “Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.” That “Name” is Jesus.

The Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, I, page 275:“It is often affirmed that the words in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost are not the ipsissima verba [exact words] of Jesus, but…a later liturgical addition.”

Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger: He makes this confession as to the origin of the chief Trinity text of Matthew 28:19. “The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came from the city of Rome.” — Joseph Ratzinger (pope Benedict XVI) Introduction to Christianity: 1968 edition, pp. 82, 83.

How did the Hebrew Book of Matthew 28:18-20 read? “Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.  Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations in MY Name,  teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” (Hebrew Matthew 28:18-20)

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Claiming Jesus spoke about Hell when the doctrine of hell was invented after the fact is simply an untruth.  Now if you claim you have such a scripture either put it up or please move on. I gave you plenty of opportunities.  Because you have been caught in a lie, you now refuse to quote a scripture knowing the scripture itself will expose your lies.  Still waiting Shiwiii

Like I already said, the only people that need convincing are unbelievers.... 

16 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Again, you keep repeating something that has NOTHING to do with the insertion of YHWH into the NEW Testament. The Dead Sea Scrolls are the OT. 

What part of this has anything to do with what we are talking about? Regardless of what  Hebrew, Greek or Latin words or letters  are for the name of God, it still is not found in any of the historical Greek manuscripts of the New Testament that we have today. 

 

That darn English, I curse you, you language of English people. There, now I made your statement have some sort of purpose. 

Ahhhhh! I get it now.  You don't believe in Jesus either?  https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament/

Ok...then support that doctrine you claim.  That Hell is in Hebrew or Greek.  Not what the English translations put in later.  Show us from the Greek then.  Show me one Greek Scripture that contains the word HELL in it.  Just one.  If you want to teach that God tortures people like religion lies about, then go ahead, you will not receive a reward....

You would have to lie to say that (HELL) is in scripture, when it isn't.  It's in man made translations, not the original writings my dear... 

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

Yet again, no supporting evidence to prove your claim

Now look, you've got yourself all worked up over a side topic and NO ONE said anything about the letter j. If you reread my post it is a name for a group of papers which the wt tries to use to support YHWH being inserted into the NT. 

The Dead Sea Scrolls proof that God's Name was used in the Greek Scriptures. It was the Hebrew Tetragrammaton which I already alluded to and provided proof.  YAWH is the Latinized version of the Hebrew Tetragrammaton.   You do realize that the Name 'Jesus' is absent from both the Hebrew and Greek Languages.  If you want curse the English Language then by all means stop using the English Language. 

30 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Yes. I understand it's a common belief, found in many of the modern commentaries. This particular verse has been suspected of textual tampering from the earliest years of textual study and criticism. The problem is that the kind of criticism that would allow us to claim that this particular verse has been tampered with comes along with a lot of "baggage" that would ask us to pick and choose which of hundreds of other verses and passages supposedly "evolved" over the first two or even three centuries after they were first written. We become selective about which passages we believe are correct and which were added or adjusted. We might end up cherry-picking our own favorite themes and doctrines that tickle our ears, and ignore important teachings we don't like.

Isn't that exactly what just happened?  I was a Catholic and Catholics reject the baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ. Furthermore, there is no events in the scriptures of a generic triad formula of three persons.  Changing the words of Christ and then inserting a pagan dogma of baptism does not promote salvation but the opposite.  

"one Lord, one faith, one baptism;" (Ephesians 4:5)   

Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

Acts 8:12 “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”

Acts 8:16 “For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”

Acts 10:48 “And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”

Acts 19:5 “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”

Acts 22:16 “And now why tarriest you? arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

Romans 6:3 “Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”

Galatians 3:27 “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

It goes against the principle set in the Mosaic law, eye for eye and tooth for tooth doesn't it?  You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’  However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you,  so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous.  For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing?  And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing?  You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:43-48)

4 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

In the appendix of that same book under "Jehovah", Mr. Beduhn states that there is no justification of inserting "Jehovah" in the New Testament. He even goes as far to state that the wt uses the J papers/letters inappropriately as support for their insertion, when the J papers are just another translation. 

I aware that there is no "J" In Hebrew or Greek.  So are you claiming there is No Jehovah, No Jesus, No Jews, No Jerusalem?  Should we remove the book of Jude from the Greek or remove the book of Job from the Hebrew??    Jesus is not in the Hebrew or Greek scriptures. Where do you think you will end up thinking this way.  Do you really think you will be rewarded??   There's no 'J' in the latin Language either.  But there is a 'J' in our language when other languages are transliterated. What are you going to do reject the english language?  

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

If you are arguing that the formula found in Matthew 28:18-20 was a later addition to the first century Bible, then I understand why you are bringing it up in the discussion of "hell." This could be appropriate especially if you are also arguing that ideas about "torment" were also added later. (Even though it is possible to understand these references without thinking of literal, conscious torment.)

Yes. Matthew 28:19 was altered by the Catholic Church as pagan doctrines were also introduced into God's Word.

 "The Catholic University of America in Washington, D. C. 1923, New Testament Studies Number 5:The Lord's Command To Baptize An Historical Critical Investigation. By Bernard Henry Cuneo page 27. “The passages in Acts and the Letters of St. Paul. These passages seem to point to the earliest form as baptism in the name of the Lord.” Also we find. “Is it possible to reconcile these facts with the belief that Christ commanded his disciples to baptize in the triune form? Had Christ given such a command, it is urged, the Apostolic Church would have followed him, and we should have some trace of this obedience in the New Testament. No such trace can be found. The only explanation of this silence, according to the anti-traditional view, is this the short christological (Jesus Name) formula was (the) original, and the longer triune formula was a later development.”

Jesus quoted scripture did he not?  In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service." (Luke 4:8) 

Here we see Jesus introduce a scripture to satan by stating 'It is written".  So what Scripture did Jesus Christ quote from the Old Testament?  And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the LORD, (Jehovah Deu 6:13;  Deu 10:20 ) thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Luke 4:8)

Notice the LORD in all capitals?  When Christendom removed God's name, they purposefully capitalized LORD.  Today even that was changed to Lord to lead the reader away from the truth into their dogma doctrines.

"Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as Jehovah, the God of thy fathers, hath promised unto thee, in a land flowing with milk and honey." (Deu 6:13 ASV)

"Thou shalt fear Jehovah thy God; him shalt thou serve; and to him shalt thou cleave, and by his name shalt thou swear." (deu 10:2) ASV)

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Now, back to the subject:  Hell is not in the Hebrew OR Greek Scriptures. Period.  It's a God dishonoring man made doctrine. 

Here's a list in the Greek scriptures that contained the Divine Name of God.  The ones  in red are from Jesus Christ quoting the Hebrew.  Therefore, to claim that Jesus misquoted the Hebrew Scripture and withheld his Father's Name is to claim Jesus Christ was deceptive. Is that being honest?   Just like "hell' is a lie so is claiming that the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has No Name. 

At one time LORD referred to Jehovah and Lord referred to Jesus.  Since many Greek Scriptures were quotes from the Hebrew Scriptures it does leave a paper trail. 

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the LORD (God Jehovah Isa 44:6; Gen 17:1; Exo 6:3 ), which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." (Rev 1:8)  http://www.dnkjb.net/1189chapters/NT66REV01.htm

Many scriptures today not only removed the Name but also removed the title 'God' and now simply insert Lord to lead the reader astray. One should note that Jesus is not in this scripture at all that singles a corruption of scripture 

(Rev 1:8) is a quote from the Old testament but changed in the New Testament?  Now now...

The Dead Sea scroll is a fragment of the Greek Septuagint.  It contain the Hebrew tetragram because the Hebrews did not want to transliterate God's Name, so the Hebrew tetragram was placed in the Greek.  https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/appendix-a/tetragrammaton-divine-name/

Yes, there is.  The Dead Sea scrolls... prove that.  I already provided a copy of a fragment.  Magnify it if you must...

The Septuagint is in Greek.  Right??   

I do but I will address that in another question about it.  Meanwhile, do your own research how the Apostles baptized followers.

12 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

I am not sure I understand you here. Are you saying that the use of the word Hades was a post-apostolic insertion into the Greek Scriptures? Or do you mean that the false religious concepts associated with the word are what were later introduced by apostates.

It must be the latter view because the Septuagint Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures pre-dates the establishment of the Christian congregation, and itself uses Hades for the Hebrew word Sheol. Perhaps outstandingly so at Ps.16:10, because of the recording by Luke of Peter's application of this text to Jesus. (Acts 2:27, 31).

Please clarify.

Judaism was being swayed by foreign gods before the coming of the Messiah.  You're correct the Greek translation of the Old testament began 300 years before the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh.  And the Greek Septuagint contained the Hebrew tetragram of God's Name in it. So when Apostates state that God's Name is not in the Greek Scriptures, they are LYING.  

"Without a doubt, there is a clear basis for restoring the divine name, Jehovah, in the Christian Greek Scriptures. That is exactly what the translators of the New World Translation have done. They have a deep respect for the divine name and a healthy fear of removing anything that appeared in the original text.—Revelation 22:18, 19."

Hades is one of the first doctrines of the Apostasy.  Today in it's current form (Matthew 28:19) is also an insertion of Catholic dogma.  Why?  The Apostles only baptized followers in the Name of Jesus Christ. "Peter said to them: “Repent, and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the free gift of the holy spirit." (Acts 2:38)

Yes Eoin Joyce (John 3:16) in it's simplicity reveals the truth.  Death is the opposite of Life.  Death is not a place but a condition.  A condition of non- existence. 

Those counted 'wicked' are destroyed by the second death of an everlasting destruction.  They have no hope of a Resurrection. The second death has a Finality to it, much like the symbolism of Sodom and Gomorrah.  "In the same manner, Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah and the cities around them also gave themselves over to gross sexual immorality and pursued unnatural fleshly desires; they are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire." (Jude 7)

Go to Sodom and Gomorrah today, can you find the cities still burning?  No... they have been destroyed and will never be rebuilt.  So when we read scripture that talks about people walking about and melting as to their eyeballs seeping out of their eye sockets, it is figurative speech that they are dying the second death of everlasting destruction.  Armageddon is just that a removal of wickedness.  They simply die off.  But the death they die, is an everlasting one. Jesus will soon his Father Life Force to his Obedient Sheep that are in the 'inner rooms' and they keep living as to come out of the great tribulation.  The others... simple die off just like people are dying today but the Great Tribulation is a 'timed event'.  Jehovah's People will be moved to bring the preaching work to an end.  That my friend is when those outside will be dying the second death... even if they beg, after a certain time, we will not honor such request because they have already been judged. 

Here's the scripture we can soon apply.  "Let the one who is unrighteous continue in unrighteousness, and let the filthy one continue in his filth; but let the righteous one continue in righteousness, and let the holy one continue in holiness." (Rev 22:11)  Soon, it will be done. The Great Tribulation is Spiritual....go on walking and do not look back.  Remember the wife of Lot.....

This is true but that would go against the scriptures that prophesied about him. Hades and Hell were not doctrines in the first century to be truthful about it.  The subject was DEATH/GRAVE...   Paganism seeped in after the 1st century as hades and then hell in the 4th century.  So Jesus did not speak of hades or hell.... if you don't want to believe my witness then look in the Old Testament and see for yourself.  

"His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth." (Isaiah 53:9)

"Keep your tongue from evil And your lips from speaking deceit." (Psalm 34:13)

"God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God." (2 Corinthians 5:21)

"Christ never committed any sin. He never spoke deceitfully." (1 Peter 2:22)  

Hades and Hell are deceitful doctrines of man.  Even with that said, look and gain understanding. (Rev 20:14) translations:

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (KJV)

and death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. (Darby)

Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.(WEB)

and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire -- this is the second death; (YLT)

One can easily conclude that it's talking about death and the grave that will be destroyed and yes even if we include the pagan doctrines of hades and hell, THEY will be Destroyed... . "And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” (Rev 21:4)   What the Bible Says About Life and Death?

I already stated, that the Body of Christ is Heavenly which explains the scripture. I have no need to persuade a brother or sister but only an unbeliever.  What more do you want me to say?  

The first century Christians did not believe in a hell or hades.  The scriptures in the original were talking about Death.  Not another afterlife that continues eternally.  Such ones reject the teachings of Jesus Christ.   "Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out," (John 5:28) 

Hades was part of Greek Mythology and a Pagan teaching, yet, that teaching was falsely inserted into the scriptures, or should I say, the Greek New Testament as Christendom began making copies to be distributed. Then, it was later changed once again by Christendom to dampened the Greek Religion of Mythology and hades became known as hell in the 4th Century.  Many pagans in Christendom clung to the hades concept of an everlasting burning concept to bilk the congregation to pray for pay sermons of loved dead ones which is forbidden in the Mosaic law.