Nana Fofana

Disfellowshipped or disassociated persons do accumulate. And they don't always pine for the day they will be reinstated. Sometimes they go on the attack. When they do, like people anywhere, they play down whatever responsibility they had in favor of how others done them in.
You would think that the BBC would get the accurate scoop on what circumstances can lead to this most extreme form of discipline and what ones cannot. It's not as though the process is hidden.

Please be aware this is just to belittle Jehovah's Witnesses. Notice words easter egg on front of envelope? Last page, barely readable,proves this is supposed to be a joke. Not even funny to me, Think, would he have had camera men just waiting for him to open his mail.?And the tears, he is an actor , after all. I post this because I do not wish someone with little command of, or knowledge of American culture and warped ideas of humor to be duped into believing this is true. The posts on you tube show at least one person is not sure if this is true. I am not happy when my brothers and sisters are made fun of or presented in a demeaning manner.@ Kurt. This is not a response to you personally. You may be inexperienced in American ways, and for that I apologize to you for such crass behavior.  If I have spoken in error I will take the wet noodle spanking. Be nice to Jehovah's people!

That's was actually a pretty good response. However, I stand by  what I stated earlier that, "Jesus never spoke about (Hell).'   Both hades and hell were later additions into the scriptures.  It's not a difficult thing to find the word that was replaced by hades and hell.  One simply has to find the scripture.  In researching the teachings of Jesus, there are no scriptures that contain hades or hell in them.
So now, we are forced to look into corrupted scripture to find the truth, what was struck out of the Bible and replaced with pagan dogma.
So let's do just that: When I showed this following scripture to my Catholic Priest, he turned red and lit a cigarette. I asked why does the Bible show that "the Dead are Conscious of Nothing"? (Ecc 9:5)  Yet, you teach the dead are still alive and in Hades and Hell and suffering for all eternity?  I don' t get, if Jesus is the Resurrection then how can hades and hell be eternal? 
"And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done." (Rev 20:13 ESV)
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." (Rev 20:13 KJV)
"The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds." (Rev 20:13 NLT)  Some translations still have some remanence of truth in it. The truth can easily be backed by other scriptures.
"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out," (John 5:28)  What??? Finally the truth!!
The fact, is the pagan insertions of hades and hell diluted the teaching of Jesus Christ and it gets people to deny the Resurrection. Hades and Hell replaced "the grave" and to believe anything else is from satan.  
 

The Original Greek Scriptures of the New Testament are missing , hidden or destroyed.  And copies of them from the second to the seventh century seemed to be misplaced, hidden, or destroyed. I can't say with certainty that the LXX translators even knew what they were doing.  However, we have 20/20 onsight by backing into scriptures and able to connect the dots how Christendom traditions seeped in.   For example the Johanna Comma.  It's not found in the scripture until the 11 century.  That's a whole lot of time that went by don't you think?  It was first mentioned in handing writing as a 'note' in the 8th Century,  it became part of the scripture around the 11th century?  What's Up???
Do the  LXX translators have the understanding of Sheol and the pit as the grave?  I really can't answer that, but I would assume the answer is in the negative since many translators falsely claimed Sheol was hell in the second century.  What I can say with certainty, is that the LXX translators had no idea what the Valley of Hinnom was, nor what it represented.   
In this case, a person has to understand the Lie before they can move on to the truth. Sheol and the pit are mankind's common grave.  

Oh come now. Reports sent to HQ are cumulative, not individual. There they are used to get a thumbnail on the preaching activity in that area.
'Tabulating them' is merely adding up the publisher reports by the congregation secretary so he can send the final sum to HQ - where you would have us believe, they must shake with rage because they want to know each individual's report so they can JUDGE them, but are thwarted in their sinister scheme by only having a single number.
 

They're also fairly unique among Christian denominations about actually doing anything about the Word of God,  insomuch as it involves spreading a united message. Denominations that do not completely neglect that work fritter away most of their energies taking sides over social and national issues, and in the end convey only that 'Jesus is God.' When I see the group that has participated in the fulfillment of Matthew 24:14 to even a fraction of JWs, perhaps I will bolt to them. 
'Advertising the kingdom' is the overwhelming theme today. All else is fine print, arguable this way or that, but fine print nonetheless.
 

2 Corinthians 2:3,4: "Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of tender mercies and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our trials so that we may be able to comfort others in any sort of trial with the comfort that we receive from God."
 What a wonderful arrangement. 

Thank you for posting such a lovely poem.  I can relate to this poem very well.  Recently (within the last few years) I was in a deep depression.  I would go to meeting arriving just as the song started, sit in the back and leave as soon as the last song and prayer were over.  I didn't have the capacity to visit and the noise afterwards was very overwhelming.   I just wanted to be in the "Satan Free Zone" as I call our meetings.   There were new friends who had moved in and probably thought I was disfellowshipped.  I was visited by 2 sisters while out in service and also the brothers made a point of visiting me on a couple of occasions.  I poured out my heart to them and they were so kind and put no pressure on me, just let me know I was valuable to Jehovah, Jesus and the congregation using scriptures and gentle words.   I love them for that, that is true shepherding (sisters included).  I have recovered now and try to pay-it-forward in service and to my brothers and sisters; giving hugs and kind words seasoned with a sense of humor when appropriate.   I make it a point to look for those who don't feel included so that I can share the love I have with them so that it may encourage them to keep going.   Why should we only be searching for sheep to come through the front door when we are losing so many out the back door?  

People keep track of many numbers - blood pressure, age, speed at which they are driving, weight, exact bank balance. It's not wrong to do it and it doesn't interfere with one's appreciation for 'the real thing.' There will always be some anal people who obsess over any number, but that is them, not the number. 
It's a quick take on one's participation in the work Jesus said people should do. It makes possible an overall glimpse of the regional preaching activity enabling planning and allocation of resources.
Nobody drops people like the paid church preachers, where the only metric they track is donations - the one metric that no one ever knows about in the Christian congregation. Our elders are unpaid volunteers who often have much on their plates - working, and raising families. They do the best they can, feel bad when they fall short, and are continually trained to do better. They don't have to serve at all. 
It's not that your point is invalid, but to obsess over it too much is to show yourself as anal as the ones you gripe about.

Dr. Mike 'Ace' Inhibitor strode into the hospital to see his patient, who looked grim. "Nurse, get me this man's metrics." he said. 
His nurse, Hep See, was shocked. "Doctor, this is a person, not a collection of 'metrics!' she rebuked the man.
"All I meant was..." the doctor began.... "It's very clear what you meant!" she shot back. "You need more love!"
"Oh for crying out loud!" Dr. Inhibitor cried in disgust. "Give me a hack saw. We're going in blind."

Oh? And those passing by a cart are all skipping and laughing over the sheer joy of life and banishment of cares?
In fact, doing good is much like exercising a muscle, or working out your brain. It triggers a bottomless capacity to do more. It is not the win-lose situation you seem to be stuck on. It is a win-win.
The '"ten hours" (your emphasis - not mine) is not a lot, and it represents helping people, as it is a measure of Jesus command to preach the good news. Generally speaking, people who do it will not be too busy to also visit the sick and the elderly. And people too self-absorbed to do it will not instead visit the sick and the elderly.

For whatever it is worth, when I was an elder, I kept my own personal check list of all attendees. During the course of the meeting I would discreetly (I hope) look about and place a check/no check by everyone's name. It is too easy to fall through the cracks when there are many things to occupy one's attention. To the extent possible, I wished to avoid that.
I stopped serving for a variety of reasons and forgot all about my lists. Two decades later, I visited my daughter's congregation and sat next to her. There in her lap was a list on which she was discretely entering check marks.
I don't claim that we are always good at human interaction. But we are head and shoulders above the world in general where people ask: "so, what do you do?" and if there is no interesting job or interest in something contemporary and silly, have no idea how to interact afterwards and sort of look forward to slipping away.
Some of it comes with age. But if age has conspired to make one self-centered, that does not help, either. Everyone is self-centered to some degree. More than any group I know, JW's help people to break away from that.

It is not rocket science of course. Unfortunately there exist some members of the congregation who are a little "different" and because of that don't get included, and sometimes get outright ignored by the majority. A brother once told me about his wife and two sons. His wife had severe depression, but despite that, would come and sit at the back of the hall. From what he said, I gathered the friends pretty much ignored her. Maybe because they just didn't know what to say to her. Maybe because she was "weird". Unfortunately, it also seems that no one paid much attention to her sons either. Sadly, both her sons left the truth, and one remarked that with the true religion there is supposed to be love, and he didn't feel any love. Of course, that may have just been an excuse, but I know for a fact that there can be many cliques inside a congregation and if you happen not to fit in one, you can be very much on your own, and feel it. Cliques are a natural phenomenon. Mother's with young children hang out with other mothers with young children. Teenagers hang out with other teenagers etc. We have 3 older sisters in our congregation who ALWAYS sit together, so much so that one elder called them the 3 amigos from the platform. But there are some friends that just don't fit anywhere. That is why it's so important to "widen out" and put in special effort to include them. Which means real effort on our part, because it may mean not only inviting that "weird" family to our party, but also paying attention to them on a regular basis....

Well - it's very touching but it's hardly rocket science. There are not 500 people in a Kingdom Hall. There are usually under 100. I look around, and when I see someone I don't know, I walk up and talk to them.

CAN  WE  SPOT  A  LOST  SHEEP ?......
When she comes on Sunday, she is usually quite late. Is she baptized or inactive is the question for debate. Few people try to know her and some wonder and stare. No one tries to dig down deep to see who's really there. In her purse is a funeral program that is ragged around the ears. It is yellow and quite wrinkled and has been soaked with many tears. She's looked at it quite often and knows the resurrection hope. But she still mourns her daughter, and sometimes she can't cope. Many people wonder but no one ever made the call. She's one of the lost sheep sitting there, right in  YOUR  Kingdom Hall. * Her uncle molested her when she was just a child. Her mother didn't believe her and said she was just wild. Jehovah God has blessed her and now she has the Truth. But she still lives with all the scars of a stolen youth. They say she's moody and she's mean, so no one bothers to call. She's one of the lost sheep sitting there, right in  YOUR  Kingdom Hall. * She comes to all the meetings, to the field and mingles with the friends. But once she goes back home again, the heartache soon begins. She grew up in the Truth, has served Jehovah all her life. All she ever wanted was to be a Christian wife. Now she's past the bloom of youth. Her dreams have not come true. She's tempted and frustrated and scared of what she might do. You probably think she's strong and she doesn't need a call. But she's one of the lost sheep sitting there, right in  YOUR  Kingdom Hall. * When searching from door to door and bringing more sheep in, don't forget all the sheep who are already in the pen. All of these are true stories of people at the Hall. Take some time and look closely and see who needs a call. * We always remember the sick, the single parents and the old, but can we try to include still others in our fold ?  Remember,  that Jehovah doesn't want anyone to fall.
And that there might be a lost sheep sitting there in  YOUR  Kingdom Hall

Great grandfather. My grandfather was a Kodak man, back when there was a Kodak. (it still exists, but it is a shadow, and is largely out of town.
 
Well, that's what they told us at Cobb's Hill Reservior, when they unveiled a monument (plaque) to great grandpa. they opened up the facility then and anyone that wanted could climb down and see the infrastructure. Whatever was today is not necessarily the same as yesteryear, but the general pattern is the same, with updates.
I don't have it at my fingertips, but if he died at 102 and maintained an office at City Hall till then, his 30 years might be more. Perhaps it is 40. Or perhaps it is his formal employment as C.O, after which there were years of consulting. He is listed as among Rochester's most dedicated public servants. Nobody has heard of him anymore, which is a good reminder of how quickly we are forgotten after our time, regardless of our accomplishments,  and how welcome is the prospect of everlasting life.

"This concludes this evening's performance of 'The 1914 Overture,' with Maestro Bruce Q conducting the Forum Orchestra and Chorale, with JTR acccompanying on the cymbals. Maestro Q brilliantly led the orchestra through a strident interpretation of 'Hail to the Chief,' before finally rallying all for a stirring rendition of 'We Will Be Loyal With Caveats!' Our thanks to @The Librarianfor keeping the concert hall open past her bedtime. Tune in next week when we will hear a performance of the timeless opera 'The Overlappers.'"

Yes, of course I'll go along with that. When I bought my ticket from Holy Bus Lines, it was their photos I saw on the terminal wall. That was never hidden from me.
I also know that they may hit a pothole or three, for the weather is abysmal and the road is uncharted.  Moreover, they do not require me to sit up straight at all times - they allow me to stretch, talk to my neighbor, and use the bathroom.
I'd be surprised if the date goes. It's been around forever and it was reaffirmed at the Regional. The herd is running another way at present, but we all know about running with the herd. Perceptions can change.
Still, if it goes, it goes. It's not why I'm here. Nobody else can explain why God permits suffering. Nobody else can explain what happens to the dead, why we die at all, and what hope for those who have. Nobody else can explain why human governments do nothing but foul the nest, so that I am not stuck with the pathetic hope that the next leader, this time for sure, will fix things. Nobody else preaches the good news of the kingdom, nor unifies those responding. Nobody else would have kept me safe from the new morality.  Perhaps my marriage would not be intact, for few teach the Bible's message of yielding to the other person. The Bible would be an unassembled jigsaw puzzle in my closet were it not for the GB spearheading the work others feel free to criticize but do not offer to do. I owe them loyalty. I will pay it.
If understandings change, you do damage control, hope for the best, and pray for Jehovah's continued goodness.  It has been that way ever since Jesus spoke about 'drinking his blood.' 
You can't change people, Bruce. They'll be what they'll be. To some extent, the more one carries on, the more fuel is added to the fire. The less fuel offered, the quicker it goes out.

"For at present we see in a hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face to face." 

The Hemlock Lake to Rochester fresh water channel is gravity fed. Once the water reaches city reserviors, of course, it is pressurized. 
 
I do notice, however, that I have taken you up on your constant taunt: 'challenge me on ANYTHING - PLEASE DO IT! - and see if I am not the VERY PERSONIFICATION of TRUTH' and you skulk away, tail between your legs, with a 'oh, sorry, I was talking about someone else.' 
Too scared to walk the sewers, are you? My great grandpa would have eaten you for lunch!

TTH:
Well, you certainly topped anything I had to say, with my measly 5 years experience ...
My last posts about ONLY Sanitary Engineerin, and was NOT about me ... it was about the fact that those who "walk through sewers"  perform a necessary and even VITAL function for all Civilization, and that I knew what I was talking about, having designed them.
Physical sewer systems, or philosophical sewer systems .... it works the same.
Otherwise.... neither your pipes nor your theology will "hold water".
As usual, in your last two posts, you picked up on the buzz words, misquoted me with vulgarity, and made a tirade based solely on your continued and sustained predilection for irrelevancy,
By the way ... designing and building and maintaining potable water systems is NOT Sanitary Engineering.
I used to design BOTH.
BOTH come under the label of "Civil Engineering"
One is a pressure system for drinking water .. the other is a gravity sewer system for crap and wastewater.
It's best to know what you are talking about so you do NOT get them mixed up.

We have stumbled upon another way in which one might thwart the nefarious JWI. Just when he is about to shanghai the very stars from their orbits, respond to one of JTR's taunts - he offers up dozens each day - and bicker it out with him for several pages. Poor JWI will put his head in his hands and cry, despairing that he will ever complete his points. Or perhaps he will be grateful for the camouflage provided, since it is not his aim to shine in the first place.
Plus, it makes for fine comic relief.

Alright, big man! You are treading upon sacred territory. "Shit Happens" was your daily text? For five years? ONLY for five years? What a newbie!
My great grandfather was city engineer of Rochester for 3 decades. It is he who authored a fascinating tome about sewage conditions in the city. It is he who designed the city's water supply from faraway Hemlock Lake, laying infrastructure still in use today, 100 years later, though valves have been replaced.
It is he who wrote another page turner that sits proudly upon our family hearth: 'Flood Conditions of the Genesee River,' looked to as writings of Moses by those who would later design the Mt. Morris dam 50 miles upstream and finally put an end to floods that periodically ravaged the city.
It is he who, after he retired, continued to report and consult at  his City Hall office until he was 102.
'Yea, though I walk through the Valley of Turds' my rear end! For 5 years? Try 30.
And he didn't wear no Rolex watch, either.

Hey @bruceq, I hope you're not ducking out here? You bring some useful information to the table when you are not engaging in an emotional exchange!
Without pointing any fingers unnecessarily at others, you are acting unwisely if you engage with ones you consider to be apostates. Not just because it's a prohibited excercise (2John 9-11). Apostates are indicted by Jehovah because they have  "disheartened the righteous one" and "have strengthened the hands of the wicked one" (Ez.13:22). Do not loose the force of Jesus illustration of the "ravenous woves" (Matt.7:15). You cannot fight them on a level playing field. They will literally have you for breakfast! You will come out dis-heartened!
And even if your judgement of some is too harsh (by my estimate), they may still not play by rules of etiquette you hold dear. You are in great danger of 'answering...according to their foolishness' (Pro.26:4), with harm to your own peace of mind.
But, despite the acknowledged dangers of an internet forum, which can indeed be a bit like playing soccer blindfolded at times, you do have some control.
There is an option to ignore users that you can turn on, to avoid those excercises known as "flaming" that you sometimes appear to get caught in.
Perhaps @Librarian could provide an instruction on how to turn this facility "on", as the recent platform migration appears to have switched it "off".

I really like this.
When I used to use buses to get home at night as a teenager, there were no electronic schedule indicators. Just a printed sheet on the stop, if it had not been vandalised. It was notoriously difficult to figure out the schedule. The print was too small, the light too dim, the mind too clouded, the need to relieve nature too pressing. And the schedule always contained exceptions to scheduling for late hours and weekends in even tinier print, indicated by impossibly small asterisks and the like. And if the bus number was different for the out-of-hours service.......! It was so easy to misinterpret and a frustrating excercise. But what a relief it was when a bus actually came! On time, as far as the driver was concerned. The schedule? No longer of any real interest. Maybe I'd check on the bus to see where I had got it wrong. So easy in retrospect. The important thing? I was at the stop to get the bus when it came.
I think there's an illustration in there somewhere. I'll have to figure it out when I get time...........maybe something about the driver choosing the passengers....................Hmmm....