Srecko Sostar

conscientious objection is by Merriam-Webster Dictionary = "governed by or conforming to the dictates of conscience." And as JW members usually say, "bible-trained conscience". Here we can talk about two sort of "conscience". One is Original conscience, God giving, "natural". And other one is "trained". Trained by what, by whom? By doctrines, instructions, fear, society, family, group.... Regarding to the theme of post, this JW brother and as many similar to him who refuse to go to army, military service. I believe how in his explanation in front secular authorities about reasons for such act, for sure he mentioned that he refuse it because his "bible-trained conscience". But, reason that is more stronger than conscience lay in subconscious part of mind. And that is true, prime reason for JW members in general. Fear of God, fear of WT organization and fear that he will be rejected from JW society if go to military service. In fact JW elders trained brothers who are confronted with this issue to tell how reason for refuse serving army is not their belonging to JW organization, but bible-trained conscience. But as we all know very well that is half-true, not all true. Because will he, Jeong and others refuse military service if they would not belonged to JW church? Would they refuse to serve if they did not belonged to JW? Why elders giving such instruction? Because of fear of persecution and sanction to legal entities aka WT society in same country. JW members are not the only one who refuse military service. There is others who do that same also for reason of "conscience" and religious belonging. Other issue is problems that GB caused to many brothers by instructions on what civil service instead of military is accepted and what is not.

"Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it." Proverbs 22:6 But some of us do not follow this "good example" and have not confirmed this rule ....thanks god! Or should we blame parents because they have not trained us enough? hehe Â

if I'm freely commenting, I think that link between religion and politics has existed since ancient times and it is not strange or forbidden. If you are reading Bible reports, like events related to Saul, David, and the priests and prophets, you will see that even then there were links and interests between spiritual and secular. There were spiritual leaders of the people and political leaders of the people. (priests and kings) They sometimes worked harmoniously and sometimes were on opposite sides. Priests and prophets had the authority to set up a king, but the people could have set the king too, more precisely to say, the elders of the people. That is very clear from 2. Samuel 5:3. The duty and obligation of the prophet, the priest is to care for the interests of the people, to be their shepherd. A similar role exists for the king. Therefore, it is not possible to completely separate religion from politics. If some bible verses can be interpreted how god forbid or condemn  relationship, bonds between church and state  other bible reports gave us other view on the same issue.  After all, does not the Book of Revelation describe the rulers of the heavenly kingdom with two opposing titles in one - kings and priests?

Order, priests, clergy-laity distinction, classes, rank and file, all that is reality, something that was strange as i was been member. But Jay, if i may tell, you missed one very important word in connection with central corporation and all sister companies, congregations and similar entities - "charity" is that word. And this word have interesting meanings,  legal aspects, privileges and obligations on Holder of that Title. :))

WT JWorg try hard to explain how, what, in which circumstances, who, why, why yes, why not .... all at all making rules on rules. But as James correctly said, you dear Ucylmd have to update information on that subject. :)) because it is not simple for JW member to be in line with instructions that can be changed very fast. Just part of text from JWorg official site;  "We cannot here cover every situation that may arise, but let us focus on two basic ones....In some instances, the disfellowshipped family member may still be living in the same home as part of the immediate household. Since his being disfellowshipped does not sever the family ties, normal day-to-day family activities and dealings may continue. Yet, by his course, the individual has chosen to break the spiritual bond between him and his believing family. So loyal family members can no longer have spiritual fellowship with him..... In other cases, the disfellowshipped relative may be living outside the immediate family circle and home. Although there might be a need for limited contact on some rare occasion to care for a necessary family matter, any such contact should be kept to a minimum." I have JW family out of my home/house. Last year, i meet my mother accidently (for first time after my living JWorg) on street and said, Hello Mum , she turn serious face/head and passed. My three brothers in blood and their families also cut contacts (silence). But in fact i have no need for their society, no sorrow, no sad because of this. If it is "normal" to applause in congregation, convention to Melody role model, then it is quite normal to me also to not feel any regret and to applause myself for my courage to stand firm for my perception of the truth. Â

Thanks James. As it is written in bible, eyes will open only after man take a byte of apple :))) If you do not mind, we can use that illustration also in the case, examples of "waking up" from things that put people (as me before) in lack of information, knowledge, connecting known with unknown, reasoning on few levels and more. Yes, JW social contacts from ex "bro and sis" are not existing, family members also. But my advance in all this "situation" is my introvert character (hehe) and clear reason or answer on Why? i was left JWorg, so ...life is good.

Good morning to everyone. For a short time, 2 months, I'm following your page, out of curiosity. I like to be in touch with informations on how people think and respond to different circumstances, incentives and changes that come from the environment they live every day, and/or are part of the personal process and attitudes, fears and hopes, beliefs and disappointments. In order to immediately prevent misunderstandings and misconceptions about myself, I want to let you know who I am. That is why I will put my letter. Through the comments  that i have opportunity to read  from some of you, I met your thoughts and attitudes. With many, I agree and support them, which is understandable, hehe. And what are the thoughts that I support? Once you read my letter below, will be immediately clear to you. I live in Zagreb, Croatia.Thank you, and apologize for grammatical errors. 1. To Society Watch Tower, Watchtower and corporations 2. To Jehovah's Witnesses and all assemblies 3. To all whom this concern  Declaration on termination of membership to a religious community of Jehovah's Witnesses             I was baptized in 1977 at the age of 17, then a minor. But, in good faith I answered the following two questions just before baptism, which is symbolized my dedication to God in terms of the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses religion. At that time (before the change of June 1 1985) questions have read as follows; A)   Have you repented of your sins and converted, recognizing yourself before Jehovah God as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ? B)    On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?             Since I have over decades closely followed the changes in various aspects of activity of this religion, I noticed some frequent collisions (1 John 4:1; 1 Th 5:21). It is visible in: a) the content of the various interpretations; b) in the theory and practice of action in everyday life issues. Overview of many historical aspects of the spiritual heritage, which the organization has, since its inception in the 19th century, left to its members-followers, and wants to cover it up, revise and incorrect display, is astounding. Who wants to drink a water from a cup in which there is a single drop of dangerous substances?            The purpose of my statement is not to explain doctrine and practices of society and the board of directors, who are disturbed my conscience and reasoning within the love, faith, knowledge and understanding that I feel and I have to God and Jesus Christ and to the people, so I will taxatively single out only a few of them (Rom 14:4). These are obvious example, on the one hand, theological acrobatics from the main church body of Jehovah's Witnesses, and on the other hand, their dishonesty and practice in which one they are learns, and other they are works; 1) Confusing conceptions about their own identity (Who shared spiritual food? One servant, all 144 000, a composite body or the governing body ...,) 2) Pragmatism in changing dogmatic interpretations before the change was "firmly biblical established", such as a series of explanations about the "generation" ..., 3) Speculation about the meaning of biblical statements and how they should be understood. More than once the revised interpretation were in style of YES-NO-YES-NO; then this year's "changed approach to the interpretation of reports from the Word of God" ..., 4) Switching of responsibility from the governing body and their representatives on the ordinary believers in respect of the decisions and attitudes that members should be carried out, when it becomes apparent that they were endangered spiritually, mentally and literally health of fellow believers  (eg, multiple expectations of Armageddon, Malawi and Mexico of the 1970s, questions about blood, juvenile members / Bulgaria /, neutrality ...,) 5) Co-operation and association with political organizations such as the UN and the OSCE. 6) Increasingly open calls for financial donations and contributions to the funds of the corporation. 7) Careless and unkind treatment of victims of pedophilia within the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses             Regardless of how, as collective or personal, members of the Jehovah's Witnesses will treat me after this letter of resignation, considering the worldwide-known practice of ignoring and avoiding (shunning) that Jehovah's Witnesses apply to all who are outside of their religion ("worldly" people, dissociated and disfellowshipped) - I with fully conscious and reason declare still this; My relationship with the people / persons in the Jehovah's Witness religion and those who are not, is based on the words of Jesus; "Love your neighbor as yourself"; "Love those who hate you"; "Whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them."  I expecting from you, that any kind of information which is stored anywhere, in connection with me and has my full name, such as personal files, or any other files you immediately destroy!   Zagreb, July 27/2015                                         Sre?ko Šoštar -------------                                   Verified by notary public  Â