Srecko Sostar

Bible history reports gives otherwise, different facts ... understand? Description that is given in such reports assure readers that Israel people believed very sincerely that they worship one true god, but in fact they worship 2 or more god's. So never say never :)))))

if you are a donkey or a mule (like me :)))))))))))), you can say what you want and how you want, no one will blame you! True? ahahhaaha

Thanks for respond. I knew also few interesting and difficult experiences about JW families, parents, children, and mutual relations after one or few family member stop to go in hall or to believe in WT doctrines (dogmas is better word). Some parents, even single parents trow child out of house (because elders pressure them to do so) even child is minor and have problems in many ways. My very critical thoughts and language i used sometimes while commenting on this forum is product of knowing other side of JWorg medal, (dark side of "spiritual paradise") stories that is under curtain of family life, that is not seen, spoke publicly in KH Sunday meetings. Interactions when elder of congregations are so eager and zealous to help, because of high level of self righteous and spirituality :)))) and he is not just young or inexperienced person, in fact one of first elders not only in congregation but in whole country, appointed to come from different place and country, before many many years. His helping to that family and children, ended in the way that this minor kid cuted her veins. Lucky for her not with deadly end. But this kid is so terrible ruined in psyche in emotion, soul. Everything has started with rebuke and disapproval from elders side when one summer, father of that few kids (who is ex-JW) called his minor kids to spend some time at holidays. And kids done that (with knowledge of mother who is JW) Ohhh what great sin they done :))))))) or :((((((( Mixing OT and NT counsels with WT interpretations on bible text, how parents need to teach, counsel, discipline their children is/are very problematic, uninspired with too much error. If whole bible is inspired and serve as role model than it is little tricky to use some Old Testament "principles" (what is principles??? which principles???) in some bible verses or examples, constructing type-anytype model??? or more, then pick some verses from NT verses and applicate all that amalgam into today time and people. You have, as result people inside JWorg who feel that they will never reach such goal, always feel guilty because that, pushed to do more and more in this or that "christian" activity. You have more than half of congregational population who are lost, lost between normal, genuine, god's given Natural conscience on one side and Artificial "bible trained conscience" regulated and imposed by WTJWorg.

If we take in consideration WTJWorg custom (and encouraging young ones inside org) to accept decisions from 5-15 year old kids to be baptised and by that become part of organization about what they know nothing, then kids are capable to make decision on every life matter- driving licence, married, job, school. Because by WT way of thinking - to get baptised is the most important decision in Life that every person can make. All other decisions in life are less important if are important at all in comparison to this one - be baptised as JW. Some kids can show more maturity than some adults about something, and today's time is different than before past years. Children "swallowing" more and more info than generation before so they "know" many things, even more than adults in some things. Older are to confident that they "know" enough. All in all we all making "informative" decisions. :)))

hehe, ok, but do you not understand nothing or some parts? What logic is not understandable ? Perhaps one part of problem is sentence grammar logic in my language that is not same in english. Thanks for your try

If WT and members prefer more to be called as "only true religion" and proves that with methods that are only suits them (self-rightful and self-justified methods), instead of charity works which are done by other people, groups or organizations whose methods and tries to help, according to WT and your quote are of no value. Because according your terminology is just vain attempt to "fix" what is not fixable. Then please think about that how in this minutes when we, you and i speaking in the wind, doing nothing, some other people, who are not JW members, feeding hungry babies, giving water to thirsty people, giving education to children in some forgotten country, curing illness and helping patients to endure the pain ..... and that all is just meaningless work??? Your recommendation and counsel is not to do that kind of "fixing" but -- if you see your brother that is hungry, tell him, go brother and feed yourself ...but i will give you internet address of JWorg and you will be spiritually satiated :))))) This is not USA or Croatian way of "humor", this is biblical way, ahaha.

:)))) perhaps, but anything is possible. On other hand, WT is corporation and have more benefit of living members (bringing money) than dead members. Those who died for reason of faith are kind of martyrs and are good for history books. Depend of to what group someone belongs he/she will glorify its representatives, not representatives of someone else's group, religion and so. Your daughter said nice answer, but WT knows who will be saved and who not. Answers are in 140 years published materials. :))) i am just "mule" who stubbornly stops on the road and speak :))))))))) find the parable if you can, hehehe

Thanks to your post i can observe. And because this forum is designed to comment i also do that. Thanks to US law of free speech and Amendments :)))

Tom, and bible too gave hope that the world is salvageable, or "the good news" told something else? If you are agree with JW teachings, you as JW member also working to fix it, do not you? Must i really make drawing picture to show that for you? :))) You as member try to "fix" : 1) yourself because you are, if you are, in process of "gaining new personality" according to Jesus image, or JHVH image :))) 2) you and WT creating "new nation", or "new earth" instead (which will replace) this "old". Is it not obvious that you with all WT disciples and followers working on "fixing The World" (with "publishing" methods, with legislative methods), but wait for someone else to do "dirty job", and kill all who are not agree with NWO? But what if GB released instruction and say that members have to do that dirty job?? like in old time when Israel males and some females killed "the enemy" :((( because god said so.

If we, every single person, JW or non-JW "pursue legal means" for purpose to oppose all injustice that threatens various people all around the world for every kind of "ignorant injustice" - than we would show what it is in our mind and heart. Then we will advocate for all people without prejudice and we would be impartial, and not only for one of "our sort". He, Dennis, choose to "dye" for god and fatherland aka WT organization. Maybe my words sounds unsympathetic or rough, but injustice are everywhere, inside us and outside of us. Prison time can be good time for Dennis to make personal introspective of his feelings, attitudes, reasons, faith, belongings and much more. But of course that must not be the case, perhaps he will continue in supporting stubbornness for "wrong zeal" to establish own and/ or WT righteousness.

Watchtower is ONLY business corporation (and only FOR business) Synonyms in JW vocabulary for WT are; organization, society, Mother organization, God's organization. In such perception, in fact every average JW member are assured in his/her believing, and that is true, how it is from God JHVH. WT is religious corporation or corporational religion, what ever you prefer more. Shareholders comes every year on Annual meeting that look like congregational meeting with new "spiritual food" lessons, revelations, teachings, doctrines, instructions. What a mix. And according to video all shareholders are"mature, active and faithful males" :))))) So really this corporation are macho style religion. Non-stock and non-profit? hehehehe Glad that was mentioned 1. President W.H. Conley but need to add, Russell the Father (Joseph) was Vice President with young C.T.Russell as Secretary Treasurer. In time of Inc. 1884. Charles became President and his wife Maria was Secretary Treasurer. So, Russel in that particular time was very advanced in his looking on woman's "role, place and nature" or just want that business stay in family :))))))

Perhaps we can comment on this verse connected to issue in this way. Reasons for Dennis is in jail are; because WT instructions, because Dennis obey WT instructions, because Dennis interpretations on WT instructions, because on Dennis interpretations on Bible and Gods will, because Dennis decide to not obey Russian law, because ......

I would like to comment about Dennis from few aspects. 1) What is Gods will in this matter? Because no one know what it is, we, as people, can talking and talking what ever we want. 2) What is of best interest to Dennis? Is it better for him to be in prison or to be "free"? Because nobody knows that, we can wish what ever we want but that must not bring nothing good or bad to Dennis. 3)What is that in Bible which would give suggestion to people what would be good to do about Dennis? As to my knowledge and memories, the best is to stay and wait on JHVH. Second solution is to pray that he can endure his life position, and third is to rejoice, he and all around him because he is in position to suffer for Jesus name or JHVH name. So somebody can ask, why to stop him of opportunity to be happy and feel all joy because his suffering is for blessing. 4) Don't you think that God let to be so because Dennis must learn important lessons in life that he was not learned yet?

Thanks for lighten details. I can accept some humorous, even in serious things. So Tom show some sense of humor on what i was smiled. But only on one part. On other part can not. But if it is so in USA (not meaning nothing bad with this) than i can now finally understand all about WT organization. US citizen who are founders of that corporation/religion is all that what you tell me in your little story. Guys, now i must go, you know .. i have new task in my To do List - to find some talking mule in nearby area :)))))))))

WTJWorg said that JW people are most honest people in a world, the most truthful and all superlatives. The way you talk to me in this last respond, all that what your church claim is/are - you mocking now and doing grotesque and burlesque of your Faith and yourself. Sorry, but if is so with you, I do not see purpose to communicate with you in this way. Stay well.

Strong, exclusively statement. Please give me few examples. :))

Tom i do not know you, are you JW, JW in good standing, fading JW, sleeping JW, weak faith JW .... or whatever/whoever else. I just wrongly expected that all words you using would be "biblical" or as some NT verse said "seasoned with the salt" aka biblical salt. My fault :)))). So may i said that you are not fully honest - i will not call you as, hypocritical for the sake of polite conversation :)))) That is something we must check for ourselves. Right reasons for you must not be right reasons for me and vice versa. It is unpleasant surprise, but not unexpected, that you talking about so called "essential doctrines", and named two or three as genius, original and essential, but forget all doctrines and instructions that ones was The Truth and constitute doctrines and teachings that was, and this new today are, specific, special, or as publications said with this specific term unique to JW religion. If you go to religion history many of those unique doctrines and teachings are not so new and specific only to WTJWorg. You can find it in other religions and religious groups too. Some of them existing, some are history. I left because i love the truth, but not your truth or WT truth. So, would you put this reason to right or wrong, it is not something that must make me worried. :))

In other words - satan deceiving satan? Do you negate wrongdoing that WT have done about/to victims of child molestation?

Will you please explain this terminology. How on earth apostates can be professional :))) Merriam-Webster: Definition of apostate for English Language Learners; someone whose beliefs have changed and who no longer belongs to a religious or political group Thousands of ex JW members: childrens, adults, young and old, male or female, ordinary members or ex ministerial, elders, pioneers, missionaries, Bethelite...how can they be professional apostates. If i am finished some school and be learned by some who know job, maybe i will come to be "professional" some day in future. But what education people have to finished to become "professional apostates"?

This picture and text about purpose for meeting is proof in a series of evidence about the relationship between religion (particularly JW religion) and politics. Now we have at least two possibility. In first one, JW member (if somehow come to this and similar info) maybe will try to explain to self that it is fine that brother try to do best in "defending and legally establishing of the good news" - no problem if he must for that noble goal "sitting in the same table with devil" and his human servants. In second, after hearing or reading such material, mental condition occurs in JW member (or anyone else) which negates reality. Facts, evidence, reality - says one but rooted idea, faith in that what they taught to him, rejecting the possibility that he or his teachers (scholars, catechists) are in the wrong. That mind state calls cognitive dissonance. This disease is sometimes incurable.

From GB standpoint, leaving JW it is not impossible with "right reasons". Because according GB theology leaving JW = leaving God. So, who can have good reasons to leaving God?? :)))))) Please Tom, asking questions is crucial, and there is no WRONG questions, but please ....you made STATEMENT - "But one should leave for the right reasons." With this no one can go anywhere. :))

heehe, now you speak as GB in WT magazine; "Jesus never told that FDS will produce perfect food" Do you aware what a nonsense is to using such logic and argumentation?? "Jesus never told...." this or that. Who was been with Jesus all the time while on Earth that would be able to CLAIM TODAY - Jesus never told (this/that) ...??? WT publications and public talks using this auxiliary sentence, buzzword, phrase to support what is impossible to support. It is not possible to support two things; 1) human error doctrine and 2) reality of what Jesus told or not told. Please, please, standing for such idea is blasphemy. Imagine what Jesus would feel and tell for people who dare to claim (in his name) that they know what HE was told and what He was not told. Imagine if you have spirit (i guess you have). :)))

Dear people. And Kurt. I would like to comment your calling for Dennis from few aspects. 1) What is Gods will in this matter? Because no one know what it is, we, as people, can talking and talking what ever we want. 2) What is of best interest to Dennis? Is it better for him to be in prison or to be "free"? Because nobody knows that, we can wish what ever we want but that must not bring nothing good or bad to Dennis. 3)What is that in Bible which would give suggestion to people what would be good to do about Dennis? As to my knowledge and memories, the best is to stay and wait on JHVH. Second solution is to pray that he can endure his life position, and third is to rejoice, he and all around him because he is in position to suffer for Jesus name or JHVH name. So somebody can ask, why to stop him of opportunity to be happy and feel all joy because his suffering is for blessing. 4) Don't you think that God let to be so because Dennis must learn important lessons in life that he was not learned yet? Think this is enough for first comment :)))

i think that can be applied and on religious sphere. Flip-flop with teachings and doctrines is nothing else than "spinning" in circle. For example organ transplantation or blood components. One day you can, next day no you can not. Generation issue is spin also. Michael the archangel is in first place Roman Pope but today is Jesus - what a spiiiiin :))))

I know, America is the source of many inventions. I assume that in many countries is like in Croatia too. English language is popular, and "small" languages in many things, in lexical way for purpose of our conversation, are in "copy-paste" manner. Here is also popular to use "spin" instead some domestic words or explanation. hehehehe lack of personal vocabulary, lazy-nest to learn, using because it is "modern" or that person looks as is modern. But about our purpose, spinning is just adequate for that what we talking about. WT is modern organization and have own PR personnel, so everyone can spin everything.