Srecko Sostar

Did Jesus, when on earth, wear a beard? Certainly it was a custom strictly held by the Jews. Jesus, born a Jew, “came to be under law” and he fulfilled the Law. (Ga 4:4; Mt 5:17) Like all other Jews, Jesus was dedicated to Jehovah God from his birth, by reason of the Law covenant, and was under obligation to keep the whole Law, including the prohibition on shaving the extremity of the beard. Also, at the time that Jesus was on earth, the Roman custom was beardlessness. Therefore, if Jesus had been beardless, he would have been challenged as being either a eunuch or a Roman. Significantly, a prophecy concerning Jesus’ suffering states: “My back I gave to the strikers, and my cheeks to those plucking off the hair.”—Isa 50:6. - Insight, Volume 1 p. 266-267 In old Israel "spiritual paradise" of 1 century male congregants wear beard. That was fine way to show they belonged to true religion in opposition to Romans who surrounded them, physically and spiritually . Today JW members living also in own spiritual paradise. And they are surrounded too, physically and spiritually, by "Romans and Egyptians and others". But it is little confusing, because one part of those "worldly people" wears beards and one part not. So it is really difficult for GB to make up their mind and chose what is the best solution for male JW members. How to make right distinction between JW who wear beard and non-JW who wear beard too?? How to make right distinction between JW who are beardless and non-JW who are also beardless?? :)))))) P.S. Perhaps by allways be in the suit and tie everywhere. Beach, swimming pool, mowing in the garden ...

yeah, not the same. I put ? by mistake. Thanks. Will delete sign ? :))

Just to heat up a little about; sin, ransom, dead. "What Does the Bible Really Teach?", chapter five about Ransom, JWorg library quotes;  "It is a gift from God to mankind... Clearly, then, when Adam disobeyed God and was condemned to death, he paid a very high price. His sin cost him his perfect human life with all its blessings. (Genesis 3:17-19) Sadly, Adam lost this precious life not only for himself but also for his future offspring. GodÂ’s Word says: “Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.” (Romans 5:12). ...The idea of a ransom basically involves two things. First, a ransom is the price paid to ...Second, a ransom is the price that covers, or pays, the cost of something....By sacrificing, or giving up, his perfect life in flawless obedience to God, Jesus paid the price for AdamÂ’s sin. Jesus thus brought hope to AdamÂ’s offspring.—Romans 5:19; 1 Corinthians 15:21, 22......  WHAT THE RANSOM CAN MEAN FOR YOU 14, 15. To receive “the forgiveness of our sins,” what must we do? 1)The forgiveness of sins 2)A clean conscience before God. 3)The hope of everlasting life on a paradise earth. NOW LET GET SOME ISSUE to comment  Rom. 6:23 NWT say; "For the wages sin pays is death,..." and JW org explained this verse that when human died he/she are free of every sin he/she made while was living.   (compare with this translation; "For the wages of sin is death, NIV) not the same  By this WT explanation Jesus ransom came to be unnecessary because particular person pay for sins, that had made, by own death. But as it said in "Teaching book", Jesus paid the price for AdamÂ’s sin. By this then we come to point that our present sins would not be covered by Jesus sacrifice, because Jesus paid price only for Adam's sin and not for sins we made after acknowledge and accepting Jesus, because as some JW members had said in connection to Bible verse in Heb. 10.. How would be paid price for sin if person have not died? For example, JW members survived Armageddon and as sinful imperfect humans start to living in Paradise. But they are still imperfect and doing sin. Who covered their sins?? We still have Romans 6:23-  "For the wages sin pays is death".  Heb 10:26, 27 said, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,  but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God." BUT again if we died even in that state of "deliberately sinning" as imperfect humans, than our dead will/would cover all sins we done, because after you die you are free of all your sins - Rom 6:23 again. And by that you can wait in grave for for second, third, fourth chance :))))))) But here is something else what we can find in Bible, so please meditate about and try to explain what sins will be, would be covered by death of this people and under what circumstances, and when and for whom get, take benefits from the deaths of this people ??????? -Proverbs 11:8; 21:18 and Isaiah 42:1-3    P.S. Additional verses: Isaiah 43:3; Ex. 30:12; Num. 3:46-51; Ps. 49:7; Romans 3:24Â

Is waiting problem? What Bible say: "Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life." (Proverbs 13:12) Who, what can bring hope, comfort instead disappointment: "For just as we share abundantly in the sufferings of Christ, so also our comfort abounds through Christ."(2. Cor 1:5) BUT as explained here "sufferings of Christ", NOT in sufferings according to GB interpretations of what are, what can be, what have to be this sufferings. Would people be disappointed for reasons of Christ teachings or for reasons of human interpretations on Christ teachings?? You or me can take that luxus (done from our comfortable room) and judge motives and reasons for someone's disappointed and perhaps so called "spiritual fall". But is it fall or just awakening from dream and deceived mind we builded through years in JWorg? Answers for your question are not, can not be just "simplified edition" (WT magazine simplified edition, hehehe) as we can conclude in first look. We can make "general conclusion" but it would be unjustifiable and without deep insight on human and influence of this or that thing that was make them compliant, easily influenced from organized religion hierarchy (clergy, priests, elders, GB) My comments are just starting to open the door for answers.

15 Spiritual food from the faithful and discreet slave class is disseminated to local congregations by appointed elders. The Bible admonishes us: “Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over your souls as those who will render an account; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you.” (Heb. 13:17) Does this mean that congregation elders are infallible? Of course not! God sees their imperfections more clearly than any human can. Still, he expects us to be submissive. Cooperating with the elders, even though they are imperfect, gives evidence that we accept Jehovah’s authority. - w08 6/15 p. 21-22 Things that would be damaging us is/are accepting anything that this imperfect humans told members they have to do. Biblical logic is this: One Bible verse (Heb. 13:17) told people how they need to obey other human who are leading, governing over other group of people. It is a little weird that Paul talking about "elders" (in fact human who have same imperfections as "flock") as those who "keeping watch over your souls" . How one human can watch soul of another human at all? Adult person can watch over kids and children. But after person had come to some "maturity" he/she is responsible to own "soul" not John or Mark. You personally will give "answer" for yourself. And no one else will be responsible for your fall or rise. Second Bible verse (Rom. 13:1) said: "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which is from God. The authorities that exist have been appointed by God. Here we have command that "elders and flock" are under "worldly authority". Did/Does JWorg obey all what secular authority put on JW members? We all know that it is not the case. WT JW org found "biblical reasons" why not to obey, to be submissive to secular authority. For the same way of logic it would be normal for JW flock to refuse to obey (to put himself in submissive position) some or many or every instruction that come from GB, elders or WT Company. Third Bible verse. (Eccl. 8:9) "All of this I have seen, and I applied my heart to every work that has been done under the sun, during the time that man has dominated man to his harm. " Even WT teaching that it is not JHVH will, it is not natural, that men rule over another men. And how He is not created men for such purpose. But WT Company still have hierarchy as any other worldly Company (or church).

Oh man :))) You have done little or lot of research by quoting some bible verses, but please "translate", put it in plain and simple language of life you live every day, if possible.

-quotation from some WT article, i supposed: "Ask yourself: ‘Does my religion promote genuine love toward all, even toward those who may want to hurt me?" Mr Erwing You can be partially right in your response to me. But my copy/paste of this sentence had other purpose. To put in some everyday reality with this claim and to hear answers; what is, how look like that essence, that moving power in religious doctrine, in teachings in deeds "of my religion". To be possible and to be sure how that "something" in "religion" can, will, would produce in some believer, or in me personally, to "love" someone whose intention is to hurt you. "Normal" reaction on someone's "attack" on you is to make self defend or to fight back or to run away. But how is looks like "loving your attacker" is little mystery to me. What is "genuine" love? What is meaning of , how looks like "love toward hurter? How looks promoting love to hurter?

But "the car" is here, it is reality, it exist, it moves. No matter about what those around "the car" thinking

Anna, it is possible that i missed a point, or not understand quite clear, in this sentence. Would you simplified it for me, please, in some other words. Selfish things (what selfish things?) and - who done selfish things? Disappointed people? Or people who are not disappointed and stay in WT org? Thanks in advance.

If person (JW or ???...) buy some product from some worldly private person, company did he/she by that "liking" this satan world. If bro or sis recommended to other bro or sis how this product  is good and useful did he/she gives "liking" to satan world? And by that became supporter of "evil things"?  You complicate your life and mind and emotions and spread own insecurity. You will "stumble" some weak, fragile person here.   But i can understand. Just do it. It is normal. Do not be afraid of your thoughts.   Â

No. I just have different mind and emotions. Nothing special. ;)) When i was JW i was not have such aversion to ex members, even do not meet them at all. But before few years on district convention (1-2 days) i say hello to one disfellowshipped sister from my ex congregation. She just answer with look. But that was saw one brother who do not know that i know "status" of that sister. He cam e to me and friendly say how she is df. I just listen with no words. Than he went to sister and told her how she must "warning" people around her that she is df and telling aloud "I am unclean, Iam unclean!". Idiotic :))))))))  P.S. I remembered i meet  few times df members, but they are acted the way they do not want contact. Then i was much younger and inexperienced and somehow unprepared for something that i stand for today   Â

can't help more than i am doing talking with you :)) or do you like if i invite you for a coffee, hehee this is nice, but as GB see things you have not to take care about ex members. So, stumbling me, yourself or some other on this forum is always possible

No Anna, i disagree with this final conclusion you had made on people. :))) that is true, hehe

I know how some of you, or almost all, as JW member had doubts and conscience questions about talking with someone like me. But according to some WT publications texts of GB given advice or can be said instructions, Forum like this and other kind of similar "gatherings" of JW members (arguing, discussions, expressing thoughts, comments and similar, that are not in line with official, temporary teachings) are in fact some kind of "rebellion", and going against "Mother organization" . JW members had not WT approval, permission to talk in this manner even if they had some "questions". According to GB instructions, if any of you have some "serious questions about your faith and WT doctrines" you need to go to elders, because they are entitled to hear and to help you in any "spiritual doubts or question". By WT you are all in break of the rule and by that show "disrespect" for FDS aka GB and by their logic, this is directly disobeying JHVH. I can not help you any more. You have find solutions in your conscience, whatever, however your conscience looks like, in whatever condition it is.   No hard feeling.             Â

:))))) i am not worthy of your nerves ....

Hi! Your post is interesting. And you highlight few good thoughts, generally. When you connecting this two;  "LOVE is the sign of a true disciple" and "Arauna, when in doubt -- show love" that remind me of something - We have some bible records, examples, lessons from Jesus or before him and after him. Next we have inside state of mind and heart, conscious and something you called "social" maturity. And third thing we have "social" influence from WT Society and society inside self  as group that existing on various level inside JWorg; family, friends, congregation, brotherhood in small and wide space. As fourth thing i would mentioned two parallel power that are in JW member. That is Natural, God given conscience at one side and "bible trained" conscience builded by WT JWorg social influence as kind of group consensus based on Bible and WT Charter and other written and unwritten rules, code, traditions.  In some situations these two kind of senses (conscience) on what is wrong and right are in conflict. I noticed that in, for example, situations when JW meet with ex members, accidentally meet on the street or similar. JW member suffocate, represses this Natural conscience (to show love or let me to used wording in "simplified edition" :)))) to show just polite behaviour, bon-ton, "social" maturity) and not want to say even Hello to ex JW. Some JW are fanatically hold on this GB instructions, some are more or less liberate and make greetings. So, whatever conclusion or decisions you personally have or made if found yourself in such situations, for me it is interesting that South Africa sister counsel - "When in doubt--show love"     Â

Sorry to hear about  Â

for this panel conversation it is of not much important, i think. If compare numbers that in cong with 70-80 people you have 5-10 with "doubts" on doctrine or else inside JWorg it is "many", or it is not?  It would be interesting to make some analysis and questionnaire to see how JWorg members "breathe". But we would never know that because of F.O.G. complex (fear, obligation, guilt) and true state of mind and heart will stay "XYZ coordinate without numbers". Blanc, empty area for public even inside JWorg and for "shepherds of human soul" too. But it is better for elders to not know true conditions of members because, i think, they are not fit, suitable, equipped for catch with such answers and  circumstance inside people. yeah

recently i had opportunity to meet some ex brothers and sisters, who know me for long time. They read my Letter of dissociation and this is second or third time we meet after my living JW. We talked for a hour. Many bro or sis in JW congregations are very disappointed and are in dissident mode who knows how long time already, but only few in private circles of trust know that. You thought about Barbara Anderson? I like her blog very much. http://watchtowerdocuments.org/

True feminist quote  WT (in publications) take a stand that man is person of mind but woman is person of emotions. But perhaps bro or sis who wrote article with such thoughts just reading too much worldly books and find such reason as in this quote; Men are governed by lines of intellect - women: by curves of emotion. - James Joyce Analogy: In 1971, whilst organ transplants were banned, the Watchtower published an article about the heart. In the article, quoted below, they believed that the heart was were all a person's emotions came from. This was not in a figurative way but very literally. In the text the Watchtower talks about how heart transplant patients have become psychotic, and even possibly suggesting that they acquired the heartÂ’s previous owners personalities. Watchtower 1971 March 1 pp.133-9 How Is Your Heart? - "And a third man expressed great fear of feminization upon receiving a woman's heart, though he was somewhat mollified when he learned that women live longer than men." I was about 15 of age and very well remembered a convention in Graz, Austria where all that was teached with big pictures as presentation while speaker have explanations on the issue. :))) (international convention) And as some of you already know, such "uninspired nonsense" was discarded in next decade. Watchtower 1986 June 1 p.15 Determined to Serve Jehovah With a Complete Heart - "Finally the heart became known for what it is, a pump to circulate the blood throughout the body." Â

Araunah agile; also called Ornan 1 Chronicles 21:15 , a Jebusite who dwelt in Jerusalem before it was taken by the Israelites. The destroying angel, sent to punish David for his vanity in taking a census of the people, was stayed in his work of destruction near a threshing-floor belonging to Araunah which was situated on Mount Moriah. Araunah offered it to David as a free gift, together with the oxen and the threshing instruments; but the king insisted on purchasing it at its full price ( 2 Samuel 24:24 ; 1 Chronicles 21:24 1 Chronicles 21:25 ), for, according to the law of sacrifices, he could not offer to God what cost him nothing. On the same place Solomon afterwards erected the temple ( 2 Samuel 24:16 ; 2 Chr. 3:1 As Arauna you are rather serious-minded, responsible, and stable. You have the gift of tact and diplomacy, and possess a charming, easy-going nature which endears you to others. You have a serious desire to understand the heart and mind of everyone, and could be very effective in a career or in volunteer work where you are handling people and serving in a humanitarian way. This name also gives you a love of home and family, and as a parent you would likely be fair and understanding. You remember the thoughtful little expressions of affection and appreciation that mean so much to others, and you have the ability to create a warm and loving environment. However, you tend to put things off and avoid facing issues because of a lack of confidence and uncertainty. You often need encouragement from someone before you can come to a decision.

According to material represented here and all other news about religion worldwide, JW members with WT JWorg as their "mother" are for decades wrongly interprets "persecution" on JW as fulfillment of  Bible prophecies. It is quite "normal" that one group stand in opposition to another, even in so extremly way as history and present time showed us. All religions are involve in "persecutions" other people who  belongs to  different beliefs system. Â

Perhaps because this verse sisters can watch on money donate box on convention place and giving publications as sister ministerial servants in KH :)))))))))) And as G. Jackson told before ARC, "GB will consider that sisters be involved in investigation process about child molestation. But never be part of judicial committee." Hahaha, never say never! Deborah was Judge and Prophet for Israel, and ALL SONS of Israel come to her to hear verdict, judge decision she made, to OBEY what SHE has said. All those events took place in very very patriarchal (macho) time of human history and history of Israel nation. After Christ those things (male-female distinction) must been changed in Christian congregation, but no, women are lesser class in doctrinal view of GB or WT JWorg organized religion pyramid hierarchy. :))))) If people would go to first verses of Genesis it is possible to see how Adam and Eve are equal before God. Only after eating apple Curse was told (God pronounced a curse) about male tyranny over women. And Jew OT and NT male congregants obey that curse gladly. hahaaha. This curse was not God's wish for how should to be, to look, male/female relations. GB "bible scholars" interprets Bible verses in wrong way.

Hehe Tom, So his conscience and ability thinking were in some kind of blockade. Blockade of emotions, blockade of conscience, blockade of cognitive functions. You want to suggest that Peter was so unconscious of the situation and his actions throughout the night. That he was not been able to understand and feel his own wrong act in first place?? Delayed reaction is possible but conscience is very fast. This event about Jesus was important to Peter and the apostles. The adrenaline was strong. He was quite aware of his betrayal. Make some private tests on yourself and you will see.       Â