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Srecko Sostar

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  1. Haha
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Arauna in Is "dynamic energy" a Proper Translation In Isaiah 40:26?   
    And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 
    The consensus among scientists, astronomers and cosmologists is that the Universe as we know it was created in a massive explosion.
    Explosion = Light 
    So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs.
    Deep sleep = anesthesia .................Took one of the man’s ribs = surgery
    Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib
    Made a woman from the rib = type of cloning
  2. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in DO THE GB HAVE PLANS FOR THE COMING GREAT TRIBULATION ?   
    "The man of sin will come with the power of Satan. He will use every kind of power, including miraculous and wonderful signs. But they will be lies. 10 He will use everything that God disapproves of to deceive those who are dying, those who refused to love the truth that would save them. 11 That’s why God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe a lie. 12 Then everyone who did not believe the truth, but was delighted with what God disapproves of, will be condemned. 2 Thess 2:9-12 GWT
    How does God "send" the delusion?  1 Kings chapter 22 gives us an example.
  3. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in DO THE GB HAVE PLANS FOR THE COMING GREAT TRIBULATION ?   
    Yes, I hear that word, but translated to mean -
    "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves."  Matt 7:15
    Their true identity as wolves appears when we dare question their teachings and their "authority"...as "slaves".  
    Jesus said to them, “The kings (elders) of nations  have power over their people, and those in authority call themselves friends of the people. ("beloved GB")  But you’re not going to be that way! Rather, the greatest among you must be like the youngest, and your leader must be like a servant.  Who’s the greatest, the person who sits at the table or the servant? Isn’t it really the person who sits at the table? But I’m among you as a servant."  Luke 22:25-27 GWT
     
  4. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Matthew9969 in UZBEKISTAN: Registration applications denied, officials refuse to explain why   
    I wonder if jw's will believe this is persecution only on them and not the rest of the christian religions trying to apply?
  5. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in SECULAR EVIDENCE and NEO-BABYLONIAN CHRONOLOGY (Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, etc.)   
    Uh-oh! If she's consistent, you should be hearing from @Arauna soon about using an old publication to pretend that current belief is still based on this same old false idea about WT chronology.
    What that article actually says, anyway, is that even WT chronology really is just a string of connected links like a string of beads, but with one additional feature that makes it like a strong interconnected cable. And that one feature is "parallel dispensations."
    In other words the only thing that sets our chronology apart from secular chronology, and made it proven to be of "divine origin" was an idea that the WT has since completely rejected:

    What does the WT chronology add that makes if of divine origin?

    Those proofs are parallelisms:

    The primary parallelism, the only real one, was the 1,845 year parallelism. Although 2520 was mentioned, it can be seen that this was not a parallelism, but just a stretch of supposedly prophesied time, and completely dependent on all the ideas that had just been rejected as too secular.

    Who'd have guessed that 1914 was considered accurate because it was 1845 years after 70 AD? This is why the end of the Jewish kingdom had to be dated back to 606, because the methodology was simple: count backwards from 1914.
  6. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in SECULAR EVIDENCE and NEO-BABYLONIAN CHRONOLOGY (Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, etc.)   
    We also don't know if Nebuchadnezzar had older or younger sisters, or whether he had any pets. Or even at what age he learned to read (if he ever did) or ride a horse. However, I think the only real concern most of us have really had about Nebuchadnezzar is the BCE year when he was in his 18th and/or 19th year of his reign.
    The Biblical genealogies provide an excellent solution for a relative chronology by actually providing a relative birth year and age at the birth of their descendant, and we usually get the age when each person died.
    Apparently, the Bible used ongoing events along with a relative chronology. In Ezekiel, Daniel, Jeremiah, Zechariah, Isaiah, etc., we see that the Bible used a system similar to the Babylonians by telling us which king was reigning and in what year of his reign it was. Ezekiel also used the year of his exile as a point of reference. The Babylonians, too, wrote down the regnal year of the king (plus the month and day) when writing about events, or even when recording astronomical positions.
    But we need to go outside the Bible, to rely on secular evidence, in order to pinpoint the "BCE" year get dates for kings  like Nebuchadnezzar and Cyrus?
    Do you know what king list the WTS relies upon to know where Cyrus fits in the timeline? Do we know which royal chronicles the WTS relies upon to identify when Cyrus ruled? Do we know which astronomical positions in ancient diaries that the WTS relies upon to put a BCE date on the accession year of Cyrus?
  7. Haha
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Appointed / Elected / Selected - GB, Elders and others   
    @César Chávez is this your best to offer? No comments, but emoticons aka emotional reaction? :))
  8. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in SECULAR EVIDENCE and NEO-BABYLONIAN CHRONOLOGY (Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, etc.)   
    Exactly! I don't know. You don't know.
    The point was that if we want a scenario that fits a preconceived notion (such as the idea that these seven times represent seven literal years) then we will end up speculating. Just as you apparently speculated that these 7 years (or some of them) could have happened when his father was still alive, pushing Daniel's exile back several more years. And those speculations can get pretty wild. We can even pull in other Bible verses from here and there, and some might even believe that this turns their speculation into the right solution, even if still highly improbable.
    But, as fun as it is to speculate, and assume, and interpret, we can't know, and there is probably a reason that the Bible account gives us no hints here beyond the fact the book of Daniel places the dream's fulfillment well after Daniel and his companions were exiled, had finished their three years of training, and then promoted.
    Of course, it's great fun to speculate about things as we are learning about (I'm thinking of chemistry, physics, medicine, discovering software bugs, guessing your opponent's next chess move, etc.) because often those speculations turn out to have merit, and we get a sense if our learning is on the right track when speculations prove true. But when our speculations turn out to be impossible based on things we hadn't thought of, then we realize we didn't have the whole picture.
    That's the case with secular chronology. We don't have the whole picture, so the best we can do is to keep on looking for whatever evidence is available.
    He's right of course, and this can apply to the 539 date the WT uses, as well as the 587 date for Nebuchadnezzar's 18th year. John Steele has done some amazing work, and he appears very trustworthy. I wrote up a post a couple nights ago based on his explanations of the LBAT documents. Several of his documents are on academia.edu. His understanding of the mathematics is amazing. But I wanted to share his overall studies that show how the eclipse calculations were made, and how this had already become standardized probably in the 8th century BCE or prior. Well before the 6th century BCE documents from NB.
  9. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from César Chávez in Appointed / Elected / Selected - GB, Elders and others   
    Part 2.  In this part we will examine nature and meaning of terminology used in WT publications. Here we have main thing, head of problem/answer to understand governing model in WTJWorg. Expression in WT magazine said: the superior appointment of the “faithful and discreet slave. Did you ever before noticed such terminology? FDS aka GB got superior appointment. They have, they are holders of inviolable status. Based on 1919 premise how Jesus and God declared, in heaven, in invisible manner, that Rutherford and people gathered in Bible Students movement, incorporated in WTS are chosen one, are appointed. 
    What is meaning of the words appointment/appointed?  
    - to assign officially, as for a position, responsibility, etc to establish by agreement or decree; to nominate (a person)
    - assigned, appointed, elected, commissioned, selected, elected, installed, delegated, nominated
    Well, procedure and process about it is quit interesting. GB explained "the 1919 process" in manner how Jesus came invisible to Earth and found Russell (of the deceased), Rutherford and Bible Students as only worth to be appointed by Him, because the WTS organization was the only one to teach the truth. Of course, this "Jesus' declaration" is without any evidence and proof. In sense, how only Rutherford and few other in WTS were in position "to hear Jesus' voice" about this.
    Today, we only have Bible Students history, and with our examination of their teachings in those days, we are also able to establish some facts about their past and present claims and their "position before Jesus and God". But also have some interesting explanatory sentences, here and there, about issue. And with this little details we are able to see how questionable are such claims made by individuals and collective in WTJWorg. For example this below:  
    And although Jesus—“the head of every man”—is in heaven, there are still on earth “the remaining ones” of his anointed brothers, who have the hope of ruling with him in the heavens. (Revelation 12:17; 20:6) These make up the composite “faithful and discreet slave.” Christians show their submission to Jesus, and therefore to Jesus’ head, Jehovah, by accepting the oversight of that “slave.” (Matthew 24:45-47; 25:40) -https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1998643
    I put in bold this two things in their paragraph. Let me paraphrase :
    Because they are people who have the hope of ruling with him in the heavens it is obvious how  These make up the composite “faithful and discreet slave.  
    Another thing is important question; If by any chance Jesus chose someone in 1919, is that Jesus' appointment inherited, transitions from one member to a new one? Or would it be logical for each new person to be appointed in new appointment process? And that to be made by Jesus, again, and not from some earthly member of the earthly organization?
    In WTJWorg process how to put them (candidate for elder, MS, etc) in some position are same, in fact with similar process in all democratic societies. And that is; appointed / elected / selected ....through process of elections and voting. Those process can be open voting and closed voting. WTJWorg Administration, elders and congregational members participate in such system.
     
  10. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from César Chávez in Appointed / Elected / Selected - GB, Elders and others   
    Part 1.  In this part we will meet few quotes in article from one WT magazine which describes administrative functions in WTJWorg past. Many of them stayed till today. 
    Please be free to comment. 
     
    Following Faithful Shepherds with Life in View - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1967723
    This means we must prove our faith by our course of action, by the things we do. It means that righteous requirements of the King Jesus Christ must be met.......Therefore, in submitting to Jehovah’s visible theocratic organization, we must be in full and complete agreement with every feature of its apostolic procedure and requirements.
    UNITY MAINTAINED BY SUBMISSION
    ...In this way today too the governing body of the Christian congregation serves the entire organization. Solutions to problems arising in one locality are widely circulated so that the unity and oneness of the entire organization might be maintained...In submitting yourself to Jehovah’s visible organization as administered by such servants, you are still not required or expected to follow men..... It is the faith of these men that is to be imitated and their course of conduct that is to be observed....These men too, though occupying responsible positions of oversight themselves, recognize and submit to the superior appointment of the “faithful and discreet slave.”....The account says: “In those days there was no king in Israel.” (Judg. 21:25) So it was in the earlier days of the modern theocratic organization. Jehovah’s administration of righteousness took a pronounced forward step with the return of the Christian congregation to apostolic teachings. But before the King, Jesus Christ, was enthroned in 1914 C.E. the organization was loosely administered. Each “ecclesia” or congregation was self-governed by elected “elders” and “deacons.” But in 1914 Jehovah enthroned his King Jesus Christ, and from 1919 onward the time became due for Jeremiah’s prophecy to be fulfilled: “‘And I myself shall collect together the remnant of my sheep out of all the lands to which I had dispersed them, and I will bring them back to their pasture ground, and they will certainly be fruitful and become many. And I will raise up over them shepherds who will actually shepherd them; and they will be afraid no more, neither will they be struck with any terror, and none will be missing,’ is the utterance of Jehovah.”—Jer. 23:3, 4.
    12 This benefit of theocratic administration did not come all at once. In 1932 the “elective elders” were replaced in the congregation by an appointed “service director,” who was assisted by a group of mature members of the congregation democratically elected to their positions. But not until 1938 did the final change to strictly theocratic order take place. In that year, through the columns of The Watchtower, it was revealed from the Scriptures that the power of appointment of servants in congregations rightfully rests with the governing body of the “faithful and discreet slave” as directed by Jesus Christ from Jehovah’s temple.* This important step in the restoration of theocratic order assured Jehovah’s “sheep” that they would not again be separated into independent “flocks” by unscrupulous “shepherds.” The shepherds that Jehovah promised through Jeremiah would be those fully in agreement with Jesus’ words that “they will become one flock, one shepherd.”—John 10:16.
    14 In 1942 the change came. In the throes of World War II, with the change in administrations of the second and third presidents of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society,...The years since 1942 have told their tale regarding the exploits of the anointed Elisha class, accompanied by an ever-increasing number of the “great crowd.”—Rev. 7:9-17.
    On February 1, 1943, the Watchtower Bible School of Gilead was set up for training missionaries and special representatives of the Watch Tower Society to serve in all parts of the earth. That same year, 1943, a new training program, the Theocratic Ministry School, began in the congregations of Jehovah’s witnesses. At first only male students were enrolled in these schools, but in 1958 provision was made for the women of the congregations to enroll and participate.
    20 Such a theocratic view of matters will enable you always to keep pace with the organization, neither running ahead nor lagging dangerously behind. You will encounter trying circumstances. Do not be overcome by them. Wait on Jehovah and put your hope in him. (Ps. 37:34; 27:14) It might even be that reproof will be necessary on occasion. Do not become offended. If you do, you are undoubtedly taking yourself too seriously, failing to see the point of the reproof. Nor should you persuade yourself that you are of no use to the organization and quit simply because some mistake may be drawn to your attention. Rather, “my son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, neither give out when you are corrected by him; for whom Jehovah loves he disciplines; in fact, he scourges every one whom he receives as a son.”—Heb. 12:5, 6.
    21 On the other hand, it may be that your advancement will be rapid. Guard against an attitude of super-faithfulness. It might ensnare you. Do not feel that others in the congregation are slow and backward. You might even become impatient with the organization. Consider instead the example of Moses, who pleaded with Jehovah to spare his typical theocratic nation when some faithless ones in the organization sinned against Jehovah and brought his anger down upon the entire congregation. (Ex. 32:1-14) Neither should you wait constantly to be directed as to the theocratic activity assigned. Eagerly assume individual responsibility and seek ways of advancing the Kingdom interests in harmony with the program currently outlined by the “faithful and discreet slave.”
    22. Why, then, should we stick loyally to Jehovah’s visible organization?
    22 The Bible sets forth every inducement and encouragement to place the theocratic organization ahead of oneself, to accept it in all its features and stick to it loyally. The theocratic pace of activity is still increasing. What Jehovah will yet require of his faithful servants on earth before Armageddon he will reveal in due time. Staying close to his visible theocratic organization is the only way to find out. Having identified that organization and God’s righteous requirements expressed through his channel, never let it go. Follow Jehovah’s faithful shepherds so that, “just as sin ruled as king with death, likewise also undeserved kindness might rule as king through righteousness with everlasting life in view through Jesus Christ our Lord.”—Rom. 5:21.
  11. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Appointed / Elected / Selected - GB, Elders and others   
    Part 2.  In this part we will examine nature and meaning of terminology used in WT publications. Here we have main thing, head of problem/answer to understand governing model in WTJWorg. Expression in WT magazine said: the superior appointment of the “faithful and discreet slave. Did you ever before noticed such terminology? FDS aka GB got superior appointment. They have, they are holders of inviolable status. Based on 1919 premise how Jesus and God declared, in heaven, in invisible manner, that Rutherford and people gathered in Bible Students movement, incorporated in WTS are chosen one, are appointed. 
    What is meaning of the words appointment/appointed?  
    - to assign officially, as for a position, responsibility, etc to establish by agreement or decree; to nominate (a person)
    - assigned, appointed, elected, commissioned, selected, elected, installed, delegated, nominated
    Well, procedure and process about it is quit interesting. GB explained "the 1919 process" in manner how Jesus came invisible to Earth and found Russell (of the deceased), Rutherford and Bible Students as only worth to be appointed by Him, because the WTS organization was the only one to teach the truth. Of course, this "Jesus' declaration" is without any evidence and proof. In sense, how only Rutherford and few other in WTS were in position "to hear Jesus' voice" about this.
    Today, we only have Bible Students history, and with our examination of their teachings in those days, we are also able to establish some facts about their past and present claims and their "position before Jesus and God". But also have some interesting explanatory sentences, here and there, about issue. And with this little details we are able to see how questionable are such claims made by individuals and collective in WTJWorg. For example this below:  
    And although Jesus—“the head of every man”—is in heaven, there are still on earth “the remaining ones” of his anointed brothers, who have the hope of ruling with him in the heavens. (Revelation 12:17; 20:6) These make up the composite “faithful and discreet slave.” Christians show their submission to Jesus, and therefore to Jesus’ head, Jehovah, by accepting the oversight of that “slave.” (Matthew 24:45-47; 25:40) -https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1998643
    I put in bold this two things in their paragraph. Let me paraphrase :
    Because they are people who have the hope of ruling with him in the heavens it is obvious how  These make up the composite “faithful and discreet slave.  
    Another thing is important question; If by any chance Jesus chose someone in 1919, is that Jesus' appointment inherited, transitions from one member to a new one? Or would it be logical for each new person to be appointed in new appointment process? And that to be made by Jesus, again, and not from some earthly member of the earthly organization?
    In WTJWorg process how to put them (candidate for elder, MS, etc) in some position are same, in fact with similar process in all democratic societies. And that is; appointed / elected / selected ....through process of elections and voting. Those process can be open voting and closed voting. WTJWorg Administration, elders and congregational members participate in such system.
     
  12. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Appointed / Elected / Selected - GB, Elders and others   
    Part 1.  In this part we will meet few quotes in article from one WT magazine which describes administrative functions in WTJWorg past. Many of them stayed till today. 
    Please be free to comment. 
     
    Following Faithful Shepherds with Life in View - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1967723
    This means we must prove our faith by our course of action, by the things we do. It means that righteous requirements of the King Jesus Christ must be met.......Therefore, in submitting to Jehovah’s visible theocratic organization, we must be in full and complete agreement with every feature of its apostolic procedure and requirements.
    UNITY MAINTAINED BY SUBMISSION
    ...In this way today too the governing body of the Christian congregation serves the entire organization. Solutions to problems arising in one locality are widely circulated so that the unity and oneness of the entire organization might be maintained...In submitting yourself to Jehovah’s visible organization as administered by such servants, you are still not required or expected to follow men..... It is the faith of these men that is to be imitated and their course of conduct that is to be observed....These men too, though occupying responsible positions of oversight themselves, recognize and submit to the superior appointment of the “faithful and discreet slave.”....The account says: “In those days there was no king in Israel.” (Judg. 21:25) So it was in the earlier days of the modern theocratic organization. Jehovah’s administration of righteousness took a pronounced forward step with the return of the Christian congregation to apostolic teachings. But before the King, Jesus Christ, was enthroned in 1914 C.E. the organization was loosely administered. Each “ecclesia” or congregation was self-governed by elected “elders” and “deacons.” But in 1914 Jehovah enthroned his King Jesus Christ, and from 1919 onward the time became due for Jeremiah’s prophecy to be fulfilled: “‘And I myself shall collect together the remnant of my sheep out of all the lands to which I had dispersed them, and I will bring them back to their pasture ground, and they will certainly be fruitful and become many. And I will raise up over them shepherds who will actually shepherd them; and they will be afraid no more, neither will they be struck with any terror, and none will be missing,’ is the utterance of Jehovah.”—Jer. 23:3, 4.
    12 This benefit of theocratic administration did not come all at once. In 1932 the “elective elders” were replaced in the congregation by an appointed “service director,” who was assisted by a group of mature members of the congregation democratically elected to their positions. But not until 1938 did the final change to strictly theocratic order take place. In that year, through the columns of The Watchtower, it was revealed from the Scriptures that the power of appointment of servants in congregations rightfully rests with the governing body of the “faithful and discreet slave” as directed by Jesus Christ from Jehovah’s temple.* This important step in the restoration of theocratic order assured Jehovah’s “sheep” that they would not again be separated into independent “flocks” by unscrupulous “shepherds.” The shepherds that Jehovah promised through Jeremiah would be those fully in agreement with Jesus’ words that “they will become one flock, one shepherd.”—John 10:16.
    14 In 1942 the change came. In the throes of World War II, with the change in administrations of the second and third presidents of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society,...The years since 1942 have told their tale regarding the exploits of the anointed Elisha class, accompanied by an ever-increasing number of the “great crowd.”—Rev. 7:9-17.
    On February 1, 1943, the Watchtower Bible School of Gilead was set up for training missionaries and special representatives of the Watch Tower Society to serve in all parts of the earth. That same year, 1943, a new training program, the Theocratic Ministry School, began in the congregations of Jehovah’s witnesses. At first only male students were enrolled in these schools, but in 1958 provision was made for the women of the congregations to enroll and participate.
    20 Such a theocratic view of matters will enable you always to keep pace with the organization, neither running ahead nor lagging dangerously behind. You will encounter trying circumstances. Do not be overcome by them. Wait on Jehovah and put your hope in him. (Ps. 37:34; 27:14) It might even be that reproof will be necessary on occasion. Do not become offended. If you do, you are undoubtedly taking yourself too seriously, failing to see the point of the reproof. Nor should you persuade yourself that you are of no use to the organization and quit simply because some mistake may be drawn to your attention. Rather, “my son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, neither give out when you are corrected by him; for whom Jehovah loves he disciplines; in fact, he scourges every one whom he receives as a son.”—Heb. 12:5, 6.
    21 On the other hand, it may be that your advancement will be rapid. Guard against an attitude of super-faithfulness. It might ensnare you. Do not feel that others in the congregation are slow and backward. You might even become impatient with the organization. Consider instead the example of Moses, who pleaded with Jehovah to spare his typical theocratic nation when some faithless ones in the organization sinned against Jehovah and brought his anger down upon the entire congregation. (Ex. 32:1-14) Neither should you wait constantly to be directed as to the theocratic activity assigned. Eagerly assume individual responsibility and seek ways of advancing the Kingdom interests in harmony with the program currently outlined by the “faithful and discreet slave.”
    22. Why, then, should we stick loyally to Jehovah’s visible organization?
    22 The Bible sets forth every inducement and encouragement to place the theocratic organization ahead of oneself, to accept it in all its features and stick to it loyally. The theocratic pace of activity is still increasing. What Jehovah will yet require of his faithful servants on earth before Armageddon he will reveal in due time. Staying close to his visible theocratic organization is the only way to find out. Having identified that organization and God’s righteous requirements expressed through his channel, never let it go. Follow Jehovah’s faithful shepherds so that, “just as sin ruled as king with death, likewise also undeserved kindness might rule as king through righteousness with everlasting life in view through Jesus Christ our Lord.”—Rom. 5:21.
  13. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Jehovah Is Directing His Organization ??????????????   
    Part 2.  In this part we will examine nature and meaning of terminology used in WT publications. Here we have main thing, head of problem/answer to understand governing model in WTJWorg. Expression in WT magazine said: the superior appointment of the “faithful and discreet slave. Did you ever before noticed such terminology? FDS aka GB got superior appointment. They have, they are holders of inviolable status. Based on 1919 premise how Jesus and God declared, in heaven, in invisible manner, that Rutherford and people gathered in Bible Students movement, incorporated in WTS are chosen one, are appointed. 
    What is meaning of the words appointment/appointed?  
    - to assign officially, as for a position, responsibility, etc to establish by agreement or decree; to nominate (a person)
    - assigned, appointed, elected, commissioned, selected, elected, installed, delegated, nominated
    Well, procedure and process about it is quit interesting. GB explained "the 1919 process" in manner how Jesus came invisible to Earth and found Russell (of the deceased), Rutherford and Bible Students as only worth to be appointed by Him, because the WTS organization was the only one to teach the truth. Of course, this "Jesu declaration" is without any evidence and proof. In sense, how only Rutherford and few other in WTS were in position "to hear Jesus' voice" about this.
    Today, we only have Bible Students history, and with our examination of their teachings in those days, we are also able to establish some facts about their past and present claims and their "position before Jesus and God". But also have some interesting explanatory sentences, here and there, about issue. And with this little details we are able to see how questionable are such claims made by individuals and collective in WTJWorg. For example this below:  
    And although Jesus—“the head of every man”—is in heaven, there are still on earth “the remaining ones” of his anointed brothers, who have the hope of ruling with him in the heavens. (Revelation 12:17; 20:6) These make up the composite “faithful and discreet slave.” Christians show their submission to Jesus, and therefore to Jesus’ head, Jehovah, by accepting the oversight of that “slave.” (Matthew 24:45-47; 25:40) -https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1998643
    I put in bold this two things in their paragraph. Let me paraphrase :
    Because they are people who have the hope of ruling with him in the heavens it is obvious how  These make up the composite “faithful and discreet slave.  
    Another thing is important question; If by any chance Jesus chose someone in 1919, is that Jesus' appointment inherited, transitions from one member to a new one? Or would it be logical for each new person to be appointed in new appointment process? And that to be made by Jesus, again, and not from some earthly member of the earthly organization?
    In WTJWorg process how to put them (candidate for elder, MS, etc) in some position are same, in fact with similar process in all democratic societies. And that is; appointed / elected / selected ....through process of elections and voting. Those process can be open voting and closed voting. WTJWorg Administration, elders and congregational members participate in such system.
    If you don't mind i will make new topic about these process :)) with this two comments as start.
  14. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in Jehovah Is Directing His Organization ??????????????   
    As i remember one of WT representatives said exactly that before Court.
    In a child abuse case (J Lopez v Watchtower and Bible Tract Society of New York Inc.) in Apr 2016 the WTS claimed the rights of clergy in not producing documentation about the abuse under clergy-penitent privileges (19). Also, in a court case in California in 2012 the attorney for the WTS stated that;
    “I am general counsel for the National Organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses out of Brooklyn, New York…We are a hierarchical religion structured just like the Catholic Church” (20)
    I am in searching for this Court document on internet but am not successful
  15. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Jehovah Is Directing His Organization ??????????????   
    "It doesn’t take a genius to see what is being depicted in this illustration. This is a clear and unambiguous example of a hierarchy – right down to the numbering of the various groups or positions. It is a list of the various operational elements of the Watch Tower Society in a descending order of importance. When you look closely, you notice that even the chairs are more comfortable the higher up the ladder you happen to be! Governing Body members get plush leather executive chairs, while branch office members must make do with plain office swivel chairs. If you are an elder, you can consider yourself lucky to get a school canteen chair! Evidently the more privileged you are in God’s organization, the more seat padding you require.
    The Governing Body is now so comfortable with its authority that it sees nothing inappropriate about identifying the individual members on an organizational chart But there are other things that are noticeable about this illustration on close inspection. You notice that the current Governing Body members have vainly had their likenesses depicted in the illustration so that, when you look closely enough, they are individually recognizable.
    Perhaps of most striking significance is the one notable absentee from the illustration – Jesus Christ. True, the Society would likely argue that this is a picture depicting the earthly part of God’s organization, and Christ is in the heavenly part. Even so, this hasn’t stopped the Society from depicting Jehovah on his heavenly chariot in the same illustration. Even some of the angels are present. So why no Jesus? Especially if he is supposed to be “head of the congregation?” (Eph. 5:23)
    The answer is simple. Christ plays no role whatsoever in this organization and never actually has. His absence from this illustration may well be an oversight, but it is a telling one. The Governing Body is well and truly in charge, and they want us to know it. They take their orders from nobody but themselves. In this way, they are really no different from the Pope. In fact, take a look at this diagram I have prepared, which I believe demonstrates quite clearly that the hierarchical structures of the Catholic Church and Watch Tower Society are now eerily similar."

    https://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/are-jehovahs-witnesses-a-hierarchical-religion-and-does-it-matter
  16. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Jehovah Is Directing His Organization ??????????????   
    Well, that false truth is being updated.  After this repetitive strong teaching, why would "Helper" Robert Luccioni even hint at the possibility of the organization not being around?  
  17. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Jehovah Is Directing His Organization ??????????????   
    https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-october-2020/Jehovah-Is-Directing-His-Organization/
    1. And you need to keep building your confidence that Jehovah is using his organization today.
    2 Today, Jehovah directs his organization in a way that reflects his personality, purpose, and standards. Let us consider three of Jehovah’s attributes that are reflected in his organization. 
    7. As far back as July 1881, this magazine could say: “We were not called, nor anointed to receive honor and amass wealth but to spend and be spent, and to preach the good news.
    Something went wrong there then. The Watchtower has amassed wealth and real estate. 
    11 In the first century. The governing body in Jerusalem worked unitedly to maintain order and peace among God’s people. (Acts 2:42) For example, when the issue of circumcision came to a head about 49 C.E., the governing body, under  the direction of holy spirit, considered the matter.
    There was NO governing body in the 1st century.  And the circumcision account seems to be the only account the GB can find to talk about. The Apostle Paul was no part of the Twelve in Jerusalem, and it was Paul that wrote under inspiration of Holy Spirit, to all the Congregations. It would seem that Paul had as much authority as the Twelve. 
    15 By means of “the faithful and discreet slave,” 
    Here we see this lie again. The Bible, God's word, does not give any mention as to who the F&DS is, but the GB exalt themselves to that position. 
    17 Soon, the only organization left on earth will be the one led by God’s spirit. So zealously work with Jehovah’s organization. 
    Then as Satan’s world comes to its end, you will not be fearful. Instead, you will confidently stand among those who are loyally serving with Jehovah’s organization.
    This whole article promotes the GB and the Organisation. It does not give any direction to serve God through JESUS CHRIST. 
    The only time Jesus is mentioned is in connection with the disciples. 
    How do you serve Almighty God ? 
  18. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in SECULAR EVIDENCE and NEO-BABYLONIAN CHRONOLOGY (Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, etc.)   
    OK. I think I'm done.
    These two LBAT 1419 eclipses marked for NEB14, and NEB32 clearly fit the following:
    NEB14 ULUL is September 15, 591 BC at sunrise NEB32 ULUL is September 25, 573 BCE a couple hourse before sunset You can find other eclipses during, let's say, a 60 year time period from 625 to 565, but they don't match the eclipse descriptions in question. They don't match the position of the eclipse relative to the horizon and times that are shown in the tablets.
    A lot of Witnesses might probably be wondering if there is any way that these eclipses might match a time period 20 years further back in time, because the WTS has produced a NB chronology where one must add 20 to the dates that are accepted by all NB archaeologists and specialists. So I checked for a similar set of eclipses in Ulul 14/15 591+20 611. Also checked Ulul 13,14,15,&16. Did the same for 611, 610 and 609. These would be 20, 19 and 18 years prior to the "accepted" dates, in order to try to match the Watchtower dates. 
    Since ULUL always starts in August or September, we'll simply look for the first full moon in August even if it means the month started too early, and go all the way to the last full moon in October, even if it meant that the month started too late.
    So we'll check for all the possible candidates for Ulul 13th-16th, for 609, 610 and 611 BCE, even checking a few extra days beyond a three month period just to make sure nothing could have been missed. Results:
    -------------------------
    August 609. Nothing. September 4, 609 looks like a possible candidate. It's an excellent visible eclipse, and must have been one in the same series of this Saros cycle. But that's the problem, it was very visible at night. There was no eclipse at sunrise per the tablet's "instructions." It was very visible much earlier in the morning, but only 3 to 5 hours before sunrise. Because this one doesn't work we don't need to test part two 18 years later. October 609. Nothing -------------------------
    August 610. Nothing. September 16, 610 looks like a possible candidate. But, it peaked at around 1 to 2 in the morning, very visible, and there was no eclipse near sunrise. October 610. Nothing. -------------------------
    August 611. Nothing. September 26th 611. Partially visible eclipse, but only up to about midnight. No eclipse near sunrise. October 611. Nothing. -------------------------
    If 609 had turned out to be a candidate for the 14th year of Nebuchadnezzar, then we could have said that 607 was his 16th year, and 606 his 17th, etc. But it didn't work out in favor of the WTS chronology.
    If 610 had turned out to be a candidate  for the 14th year, then 609 would be the 15th, 608 the 16th, 607 the 17th, and 606 the 18th. But it didn't work out in favor of the WTS chronology.
    If 611 had turned out to be a candidate, then 607 would have been the 18th year, and this is exactly what the WTS chronology claims. But testing for 611 showed no fully visible eclipse in that period.
    But it does produce excellent, nearly perfect results for 591 and 573, so we now have two dates we can mark in the chart. Next post will make use of these dates. If anyone in the world can find them to mean something else, or has found anything I missed about them, I will remove them and use another archaeological date to begin the BCE/CE association with the relative chronology now in the chart.

    625 624 623 622 621 620 619 618 617 616 615 614 613 612 611 610 609 608 607 606 605 604 603 602 601 600 599 598 597 596 595 594 593 592 591 590 589 588 587 586 585 584 583 582 581 580 579 578 577 576 575 574 573 572 571 570 569 568 567 566 565 564 563 562 561 560 559 558 557 556 555 554 553 552 551 550 549 548 547 546 545 544 543 542 541 540 539 538 537 536 535 534 533 532 531 530 N A B O P O L A S S A R (21 years) N E B U C H A D N E Z Z A R II (reigned for 43 years) E-M Nerig- lissar N A B O N I D U S (17) C Y R U S 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 591 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 1 2 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9  
  19. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in SECULAR EVIDENCE and NEO-BABYLONIAN CHRONOLOGY (Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, etc.)   
    It looks like CyberSky5 can calculate back into the past. So I just downloaded it.
    Found out about it here: http://www.seasky.org/astronomy/astronomy-software.html Got it here: http://www.cybersky.com/index.htm I've never used any version of it before today. It's a 30-day free trial and it says the free trial only has 10,000 sky objects instead of 30,000 in the full version. But the other functionality is supposed to be there, and the free version puts a watermark on any video or picture you create from the sky images.
    So, here goes. It installed on first try but didn't create a desktop icon. To start it I had to search CyberSky in the Windows 10 search box (lower left of a Windows 10 screen).
    First thing was to set the location to Baghdad, Iraq using Location on the menu bar. Since I'll be going back to this I also set it as my "Home" location and "Site 1" for good measure. It shows the latitude and longitude, so that I could correct this to Babylon, Iraq if I need to.
    Here's what it looks like so far:

    If you look at the time, you can see that I also set the date to 591 BC. On this one you don't have to subtract (add a negative one) to translate "negative" dates to BC. So that simplifies the dates.
    Also, by default you can't see below the horizon, but on the Map menu, you can just select "Look Below Horizon." (The Babylonians could predict or calculate an assumed but unobservable event whether it be movement of stars and planets in the daytime, or an event that was invisible because it was below the horizon.) This gives us a way to check out if their calculations were really correct. 
    The last thing to do for eclipses is to click a little button on the toolbar. There's a menu item for it too I'm sure, but this is easy. It's the little gray circle with a lighter gray circle around it. In the picture above, it's right there just above the X at the top left corner of the dark blue sky. It's the button that will show where the earth is casting a shadow. It will show where that shadow would be, even if the moon isn't there to "catch" it. So it's useful to test lunar eclipses, or see how closely the sun, earth and moon happened to align, even if they didn't quite make a visible eclipse.
    So now the only thing to do is "drag" the sky and horizon around so that you can look in a certain direction along the horizon. Drag it until you are looking West and you can click the hours until the sun sets. Drag it up and down so that you are either looking straight up to stars above you, or left and right to find the moon. You can also play with the "Field of View" to see more or less of the sky at once. I'll drag mine to see if I can show a few sky objects at once.

    I clipped just a small part of the sky picture, and I set this for September 15, 591 BC at 6:29 in the morning, just a couple "degrees" after sunrise. The Sun, as expected is just above the East point on the horizon. Venus must have been quite visible as the "morning star" an hour ago, because I see it just below the Sun, and it's just drifted below the horizon.
    But as I look to the West, the Moon is just below the horizon, too. And that little "double image" gray circle above the moon is there because I set the "Earth Shadow" button to show it. And it is overlapping with the moon, therefore this shadow would be creating a eclipse, but not visible, unless you lived farther to the West (below the horizon), or if there had been a huge tall mountain to climb up on as an observatory, and therefore could see further over the horizon than others. An airplane at 35,000 feet over Baghdad might work too. (Babylon is about 55 mi South of Baghdad, but if it had been West of Baghdad, this would be a very good reason to reset our location more accurately.)
    Just for fun, and to get used to the program, you can click the time button to move forward or backward one second at a time, or one minute, or one hour, or day, month, year etc. This gives you a time-lapse animation of the sky and as you go exactly one day at a time you can get a sense of how fast or slow each of the different planets move against the backdrop of the stars. If you move one month at a time, you'd see these planets appear to move much faster and notice some other phenomena about where certain objects rise/set along the horizon.
    Since eclipses only happen at about the time of a full moon you can also just move from full moon to full moon, before searching if there is an eclipse that month. Do this 233 times and you have just gone through 233 lunar months (18 years) to get to the next position in that particular saros cycle. I haven't seen where this program allows a quick jump from one lunar eclipse to the next lunar eclipse, which was available in Sky6.  
    And, by the way, there is a misconception implied by some already that the Saros cycles means you will see the exact same lunar configuration to match the one that was seen 18 years and 11 days earlier or later. This is not really possible. We can already see the two readings for Nebuchadnezzar has one of them beginning at sunrise and one of them closer to sunset. They continue to drift a bit from the previous positions 18 years earlier.
    Just to get an idea of what I'll be doing, I'm moving the time along one lunar month at a time to see if I can find every possible lunar eclipse calculated around sunrise. When I find one I will jump 18 years and see if the next lunar eclipse is about 2 hours 20 minutes before sunset, plus or minus an hour or so just to be safe. This way we can reject some eclipses as not in this particular saros cycle. But we might also be able to identify the right years BCE, if there is only one set of years that fits.
    Moving one lunar month forward (about 29.5 days, I will check the position 28, 29, 30 and 31 days later to be safe and give every chance for other years to become candidates. Just for fun, here is the one I checked for the next lunar month.

    This is just a couple minutes after sunrise, and this is the day where the moon is closest to seeing earth's shadow, 29 days later, the days on either side of this show the shadow drifting even further.
    So, who knows what I'll find? As easy as this is, everyone should get involved. It's free! And we can all help correct one another if we are making a mistake or wrong assumption!
     
     
  20. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in SECULAR EVIDENCE and NEO-BABYLONIAN CHRONOLOGY (Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, etc.)   
    There are several more evidences that the above timeline is correct, although they cover shorter segments of the timeline. I have read scholarly papers concerning nearly 20 additional "smaller" pieces of evidence that would also help to establish that the relative positioning of each king in the timeline is exactly as shown above. The main point is that there are no pieces of evidence that would force any adjustments to the timeline. Every new piece of evidence discovered helps to "cement" this timeline. No new secular evidence, so far, would give us reason to doubt the accuracy.
    So we should be ready to look for "witnesses" that could help us connect this relative timeline to our own BCE/CE era. By now, most everyone agrees that this can be accomplished due to the exactness and regularity of cycles and intervals with respect to the sun, moon, planets and stars. This is alluded to in Genesis:
    (Genesis 1:14-16) . . .Then God said: “Let there be luminaries [lights] in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night, and they will serve as signs for seasons and for days and years. 15 . . .  the greater luminary for dominating the day and the lesser luminary for dominating the night, and also the stars.
    If we can find any one witness to any one year on the timeline, then it should be clear that this is the same as putting a date on all the other years in the timeline. Identifying the 9th year of Nabonidus, for example, is exactly the same as identifying his 8th year, his 7th year, etc.
    So here's the first potential witness to synchronize the BCE/CE era to the timeline:
    There are more than a dozen texts in this era that list eclipses, and a few of these list the types of eclipses that are predicted to repeat every 223 lunar months (18-plus years, saros cycles). The only way this predictability could ever be discovered is if someone in Babylon was keeping and passing down an accurate calendar. And the king list was the simplest form of this year-by-year calendar. Some of these "saros" cycle texts tracked such 18-year repetitions over a few centuries at a time.
    Let's start with the tablet that A.J.Sachs numbered LBAT 1419.
    It covers about 162 years worth of eclipses at 18 year intervals. They start even before the N-B period. By the way, if there are 10 "saros" cycle eclipses on a tablet, you know it means it is covering about a 162 year period, even if you haven't yet figured out which BCE dates the eclipses belong to. [2 eclipses = 1*18=18 years, 3 = 2*18=36 years, 4 = 3*18 =42 years, ... 10 = 9*18=162].
    The first two clearly legible eclipses recorded on the tablet are, as expected, 18 years and 11 days apart. 
    14th [year] Nebuchadrezzar, month 6, [eclipse] which was passed by [=would not be observable] at sunrise 32nd [year] Nebuchadrezzar, month 6, [eclipse] which was passed by [=would not be observable]. At 35° [2 hrs, 20 min] before sunset. So they knew from even older accurate calendars that these two eclipses would be happening in this series, but they also could predict that they would not be observable as they happened (due to bright daytime sunlight). Can we find two eclipses using astronomy programs that would ONLY fit those two descriptions? We would have to find a predictable eclipse starting at sunrise on about the 14th day of Ulul (month 6: Aug/Sep), and then another one that started 2 hours and 20 minutes before sunset on the 14th day of Ulul (month 6: Aug/Sep), 18 years later. We could go looking for this particular pattern in an astronomy program. This is a new computer, so I'll download an astronomy program today and look. Notice that the eclipse before the first one would land about 4 years prior to Nebuchadnezzar's reign (Nabopolassar), and the next one would land well after. Even if we don't know the BCE dates yet, we should find this particular saros cycle to match the following highlighted years:

      1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96   N A B O P O L A S S A R (21 years) N E B U C H A D N E Z Z A R II (reigned for 43 years) E-M Nerig- lissar N A B O N I D U S (17) C Y R U S   1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 1 2 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 It's been a while since I had Sky6 I think it was on any recent laptop, but I'll see what's out there. Hopefully free. And report back when I get a chance.
     
  21. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to AlanF in Is "dynamic energy" a Proper Translation In Isaiah 40:26?   
    Not really. The Big Bang was not in any sense an explosion, at least not in any normal sense of "explosion". Rather, it was an expansion of space-time from a tiny blob of whatever. You can read about this at any number of websites that explain physics.
    The expanding primordial matter, consisting of quarks, electrons, photons and lots of other stuff, according to the latest ideas was opaque to light. This is because all that stuff formed a plasma, which absorbs light. After 300,000 years of expansion, the universe cooled sufficiently to allow quarks to join up into protons and neutrons, and then combine with electrons to form atoms. At that point the plasma was mostly gone, and the universe became transparent to light.
  22. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in DO THE GB HAVE PLANS FOR THE COMING GREAT TRIBULATION ?   
    I know that you are sure how i already know this :)) and i am sure how you saw that i try to show better perspective on matter to your sister Shirley in polite way.
    Perhaps your way of understanding on, how Shirley have personal experience with few GB members and how such contact with them caused/brought special feelings for few of GB members and in the end for all 8, is fine. 
    I don't know did you noticed how publications using word "slave" only in FDS/GB context, and word  "servants" about all other JW members. Perhaps GB have to apply Bible terminology if they want be closer to original text and spirit of words. "FDS" would be better name for image/outside look of 8 men.
    Title GB gave idea only about GOVERNING, what is in fact real function of GB in WTJWorg Administration. When you use Faithful and Discrete Slave, that sound softly, tender and cause more sympathy in the listener. Slave!  Do you hear that word? Man feels sorry for the one who is a slave.
    If JW members want to apply Mat 24 on GB,  than you also need to accept fact how illustration in Matthew speaking about slave's responsibility or to be in charge only for one function: to to give, to share food that is already ready and prepared. Jesus is Bread and Water, Jesus is Food. His Teachings and Role Model are that Food. Well, job for "slave" is only to share what Jesus thought people, in words and in deeds. Nothing about governing over "servants". Jesus is King and Governor. 
    Of course, GB members have good life, and are not slaves at all. They are not slaves in any aspect of the meaning of that word. They are not slaves even in the context of Matthew 24.
    I am sure you already know what i think of this issue  
     
  23. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in DO THE GB HAVE PLANS FOR THE COMING GREAT TRIBULATION ?   
    I respect your choice of words and feelings. 
    What is little quirky is that individual (you in this example) using their Title, Function and Position they as individuals have in Company aka WTJWorg. I would understand and accept that you consider them as nice or dear or loving. Because your inner person have such feelings and perception. 
    What make visible difference is way and purpose when you address them in, i would say informal context, on Forum like this. I think that would be impossible (for now) to hear GB members how start their public talk or Letter with: "Our beloved Members". :)) It is more "natural" to say Our beloved Brothers....in mutual communication.   
    To speak of them as "Our beloved Governing Body" is a clear acceptance of stratification and classification, to those who are clergy and to those who are layman.
    Why is it not good that you express yourself like that? But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. - Mat 23
  24. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in DO THE GB HAVE PLANS FOR THE COMING GREAT TRIBULATION ?   
    3) At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. (4)  - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pl/r1/lp-e?q=w13 11%2F15 20
    You must obey the law, because it’s illegal to break the law. - John Doe
    Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. - Rom 13
    “We must obey God rather than men. - Act 5
    Please tell me, which of this claims are Circular Reasoning?
    1) GB teach Russian JW that they must obey secular authorities.
    2) After that they said to them that they must obey God rather than men.
    3) And, on top of that, they tell them that they have to be ready to obey the (special) instructions that will come from GB.
    What Russian JW's doing to obey secular governments laws? What they are doing that causes their arresting and in imprisonment? They are in very original situation, because all assemblies are outside the law. Well, is it individual conscience and understanding allowed how to harmonize two sort of obedience? And the third sort - obedient to GB, which is in fact under "men", human factor? 
    If JW's decide to be disobedient to Rom 13 rule, than have to be prepared on consequences. Same is with Act 5.
    But when JW's choose to obey GB instructions, question arise: Whom they (JW) respect and obey?  
    It would not surprise me to hear how GB gave instruction to Russian elders and JW's, to have secret meetings, to have forbidden literature and so on. To be in prison not looks very "practical and sound". But it seems how GB giving exactly such directives to them. (there is a possibility that some JWs have resented other people, privately or because of preaching zealousness, so they are now denouncing them)
     
     
  25. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in DO THE GB HAVE PLANS FOR THE COMING GREAT TRIBULATION ?   
    To make little digress. "Wait on JHVH" is the best advice given in publication. But this recommendation is functional only for "final thing", for example Armageddon. 
    In all other "earthly" issues we have permission to act as we think is the best. That would include to react in a second, or next day. That would mean to make plan/plans for shorter or longer period in future, and we can consider such patient attitude as sort of "wait on".
    Your brothers in Russia, let’s take that example, are also waiting. On what and on whom?
    JW's sent millions of letters, and millions of prayers. WTJWorg lawyers sued Russian government. Russia did not respond on your letters and JHVH did not respond on your prayers. World Courts in EU or worldwide done what they are done.
    What instructions (that are not practical from human standpoint) GB gave and giving to Russian JW's? Do you know? If yes, inform us please.
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