Srecko Sostar

You really know how to pump things up in total unreality.
Overreaction (over the top accusation) is not one of the fruit ages of Jehovah's spirit

Huh Tom!
Wife went to evening cong. meeting now. How about to asking her about this what all JW's know when she comes back? :)))
Oh ,no i can't expect she would tell me anything, because she are not allowed to talk with me about congregational, spiritual things. Ohh, what a pity!!

Thanks for respond.
What you described is concised also in wording you offer: "is the same as most businesses on Earth".
Some examples from Bible give us another way how some individuals going to gain responsible positions.
Young David was walking with sheeps and other domestic animals. Living simple life with no preparation for ruling over nation Israel as a King. But his youth had some need to prove himself and to his brothers and father, as mature and strong and brave. In one moment Samuel anointed David to be KIng. Just in a second. Nothing about going from bottom and then work his way up. :)))))
Saul of Tarsus have some period about learning, but he didn't learned how to be apostle and member of Jerusalem GB. If GB in Jerusalem existed at all??!!  He was chosen by Jesus as 11 before him. :)))
Please, who had chosen GB in 1971? God? Jesus? Someone?
Dear Anna. 
Majority of  JW  members don't know nothing about such "designation" for their congregational elders. In fact i believe how such knowledge will stumble many of your people. Few of you who participate here and read Court documents knowing these things. Your bro/sis living in blessed ignorance about this.
It would be proper to say how few of you, few JW people here, "accepting" such terminology, but only for pro et contra conversations we making here. :)) Yours inner feelings for justice and ethic and truth NOT want, NOT wish, CAN'T accept this mixing of "holy things" and "secular (false religion) things" about leveling/equalization JW elders with Catholic clergy. But you are forced to do this because of loyalty to WTJWorg and "argumentation". 

Everybody knows it. It’s nothing more than common sense. Regardless of what elders are called, they come closest to fitting the role lawmakers have in mind for ‘clergy.’

Out of topic, but just for fun. Revelation is very symbolic book. 1000 years can be also 24 human hours and can be millions of human years too. 
 
This two quote contradict itself. Question is: Why WT Lawyers not waiting for God's Justice ... in the future?
From the Christian congregation's point of view, the worldly definition of clergy does apply to the elders.
This is what  @Anna said, not me. :))

It may seem like a double standard but it is not.  In our congregations we do not call our elders "father"  leader or such other titles /designations the clergy have traditionally called themselves.... we do not..... BUT we do confide in the elders and in this they have a similar FUNCTion regarding confessions - which the law is about.  So by their function, not title, they qualify as clergy under secular law.
Anna - this is not a comment on your comment. Just a general thought.

Article in People Magazine:
https://people.com/crime/jehovas-witnesses-alleged-sex-abuse-oxygen-documentary/?fbclid=IwAR3DWbOD6ihak4wOe7rtv0GIkNfppgH0MlGs56RtjpSE_kdXHcqB4xS6J-o
 

Well no, that is not my personal opinion. That is the opinion of the Christian Congregation. How else could they claim clergy privilege unless they applied the worldly definition (legal definition) to the elders?

No problem, don't worry, I understand you. We just comment Montana situation :))

From a worldly point of view the elders are clergy. From the Christian congregation's point of view, the worldly definition of clergy does apply to the elders.
Than, result is the same: JW elders are clergy, priesthood.
However, outside of a worldly situation (meaning a worldly situation like a court setting) a member of the Christian congregation will not view the elders as clergy, because they are not applying the worldly point of view.
Is it doing bad to children (or CSA)?:
-worldly situation or
-situation inside JW congregation or
-worldly situation inside JW situation who operate inside worldly system situation?  
Where, to Whom Courts belong? To worldly situation only? To satan, because he is god of this World?
Courts belongs in Bible situation. They are God's Servants, and not devil's Servants (your Bible said so, your interpretation of Romans said so too). Bible situation says how all people (Christian congregants too)  belong to Secular Authorities who making decisions who is who. In Montana situation JW elders prayed, asked Court to give them distinctive title - clergy, priesthood. Obviously they asked Court to give them something that God "failed" to give it to them.  :)))
 

I'm English not American and I try to be no part of that world. Congress means nothing to me.... The Charity Commission did an investigation here in UK and the IICSA will be doing a deeper investigation as well.
https://www.iicsa.org.uk/investigation/child-protection-religious-organisations-and-settings
Next Steps:
A preliminary hearing took place at 2pm on 23 July 2019 and a further preliminary hearing will be held at 10:30am on 14 January 2020. Two weeks of public hearings will begin on 16 March 2020.
The Inquiry is encouraging all victims and survivors of child sexual abuse to share their experience via our Truth Project.

Update from IICSA today 14th January 2020 
https://www.iicsa.org.uk/key-documents/17283/view/preliminary-hearing-transcript-14-jan-2020.pdf
It's UK of course so may not be of interest to most of you. 
I've just read the full 70 pages and it looks like a whitewash.
 

@TrueTomHarley  " It’s called updating. People have done this since the beginning of time. The printing presses they use didn’t even fit in the NYC buildings, they became so large. "
Septuagint bible w/ Apocrypha     Ecclesiastes 12:12 (LXX) And moreover, my son, guard thyself by means of them: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
The Message Bible  Ecclesiastes 12:12 (MSG) But regarding anything beyond this, dear friend, go easy. There's no end to the publishing of books, and constant study wears you out so you're no good for anything else.
So why would your GB want to be spending so much money on new buildings and new equipment, if 'THE END' IS SO CLOSE NOW ?
Surely all that money could have been put into preaching the Good News Earthwide. After all, surely bringing in more people and getting them baptised is the priority ?  Your GB is telling the world that no one will be saved unless they are a baptised JW. But they used the brothers and sisters to do the building, when they could have been preaching, and they used the money for the buildings when it could have been used better in the earthwide preaching work, and possibly to help those bros & sis that need extra support financially to survive. But no, your GB chose to build it's 'Tower to the sky', just to show off its wealth. 

How came to that, that they just found themselves to be in this opportunity?
This formulation say how they had no "qualifications", but JUST had been GIVING opportunity to direct.
Who gave them (GB) this opportunity from 1971 on ? WT Society Administration? Or God? Or mutual effort of human and spirit (similar to what was described in Acts, ..."we and holy spirit decided to ....") ?    

Very good response from long term JW member. And very dissonante response!! 
From now on, because JW members obey secular laws (and because of agreements that WT Society and Courts made) in everything that not oppose to God's law, have to consider how to accept new terminology and to explain in publications and in field service when people ask about hierarchy inside Organization. 
It will be very interesting to see what would be reaction of new interested persons when congregants tell them, how JW Church elders are clergy only in Court cases against them, but in everyday life all are brothers. :))
WT Society giving few claims, few interpretations  about one standard: God is above all
1) obey God's commandments
2) obey secular law
3) obey God's commandments above secular law
4) obey secular law in everything that not contradict and opposing to God's commandments
5) obey Secular authority and God's authority when they work together and making compromise
I am very interested to see how and when  this "new clarification" (in your's or some other formulation) will see daylight in WT publications and on JW meetings. :))
 
 

Supreme Court of Montana - Reversal, January 8 2020
I chose few paragraphs, and some accentuation.
The parties agree that elders are “clergy” under Montana law.
Relevant here, § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA, provides: “A member of the clergy or a priest is not required to make a report under this section if the communication is required to be confidential by canon law, church doctrine, or established church practice.” ¶12 Jehovah’s Witnesses contend they are excepted from the general mandatory reporting statute pursuant to § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA.
¶30 Jehovah’s Witnesses point out that imposing a narrow definition of confidentiality impermissibly could discriminate between different religious beliefs and practices, protecting confidentiality of reports made in a confession from a parishioner to priest, like the traditional Catholic practice, while offering no protection to a congregant’s disclosures to a committee of elders using a process like that followed by the Jehovah’s Witnesses. “It is the duty of courts, if possible, to construe statutes in a manner that avoids unconstitutional interpretation.” State v. Mathis, 2003 MT 112, ¶ 8, 315 Mont. 378, 68 P.3d 756 (citation omitted)
¶33 We hold accordingly that the undisputed material facts in the summary judgment record demonstrate as a matter of law that Jehovah’s Witnesses were not mandatory reporters under § 41-3-201, MCA, in this case because their church doctrine, canon, or practice required that clergy keep reports of child abuse confidential, thus entitling the Defendants to the exception of § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA
We can reverse now something else: Did WT Society and all included in spreading "spiritual truths and doctrines" lied to general public and JW members by claiming how JW congregations have not clergy, priesthood class and how elders in congregations are not clergy, priesthood?

For you, this is a “sign and wonder” that the organization is blessed by God.
I presented another religion with a very competitive track record of charity works, that easily squelches your statement, and you’re taking offense. 
The GB had a home but decided they needed a better one.  With JW donations and volunteer work, it was accomplished.  No one, who labored in this effort either monetarily or physically ,was reimbursed one dime. 
The same people who helped finance the GB’s new home, pay monthly into their house insurance that is available when disaster may cause the loss of their home. This is on top of paying their mortgage, which guarantees they keep their home.  The GB doesn't pay into house insurance and they are not responsible to pay a mortgage. Watchtower, in all pomp, rallies forth volunteers, and sweeps in to restore someone's home if lost during a disaster.  Yet, also expects the insurance check when it is finished. 
 Who's making out in both situations?   Whose ahead in both scenarios?  The Watchtower.
This is robbery at its worst.  You can’t see it, but you can smell it, and it stinks. Srecko called it when using 2 Cor 11:14
 
Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. 2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.  6 You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.  James 5:1-6
 
 
 

Do you know that many of these "members" are asked to turn over their insurance check to the organization?  
The Adventist Development and Relief Agency (ADRA) is the global humanitarian organization of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Through an international network, ADRA delivers relief and development assistance to individuals in more than 130 countries—regardless of their ethnicity, political affiliation, or religious association. By partnering with communities, organizations, and governments, ADRA is able to improve the quality of life of millions through 9 impact areas. https://adra.org/
Really, I don't know why you are tooting your own horn.  It's as if you desperately need to find something outstanding and  marvelous about the organization, to raise your hands in praise for "Jehovah's organization".  Rev 13:4  Turn around and look at its dark side.  2 Cor 6:14
Give praise to God and Christ only, not to earthly treasures that do not deliver salvation.  Matt 6:19,20; Dan 3:16-18; Rev 13:4

You didn't read all that it said about the American Red Cross, did you.
But the charity has come under severe criticism of late from media organizations and a congressional report, the findings of which suggest that the Red Cross is less than efficient in its disaster relief work and spends as much as a quarter of its contributions on overhead, administration, and fundraising. The Red Cross has responded to these criticisms with answers that sound reasonable, but more and more people are directing their donations elsewhere.
I linked the article to give you a view of other religions and what they are doing in charity works.  Somehow that escaped your notice, or purposefully ignored it,  but it was the first thing addressed in the article.  
Read the article before you say I am lying. 
The Adventist Development and Relief Agency International (ADRA or ADRA International) is a humanitarian agency operated by the Seventh-day Adventist Church for the purpose of providing individual and community development and disaster relief. It was founded in 1956, and it is headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland, United States of America.
In 2004, ADRA reported assisting nearly 24 million people with more than US$159 million in aid. Its staff numbered over 4,000 members.[1] As of the end of 2007, it had operations in 125 countries [2] According to Forbes, in 2005, ADRA ranked among America's 200 largest charities.   Wikipedia
 

No, I get the point.  But, perhaps you need to compare apples to apples - a religion in the world, compared to other religions in the world.  https://thehumanist.com/commentary/disaster-relief-can-humanism-fill-gap
Whatever "signs and wonders" that the organization is able succeed at, does not verify it belongs to God.  
For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.  Matt 24:24
The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.  2 Thess 2:9-12

How you try to deceive.  You know why people don't help each other. You know why the world is as it is. You know who the governments belong to, (and even the 'charities' belong to)... Satan offered them to Jesus and Jesus did not say that they didn't belong to Satan. 
Once again you are comparing the GB and JWs to 'the world', that 'wicked world of mankind'. Because you dare not compare the GB and JWs to God's standards, as your GB and most JWs fall far short. 
You really must lack faith if you need to compare your GB and the Org to the devil's wicked world. 

Thank you Srecko.  It needed to be said.
“But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back."  Luke 6:32-34
It leaves no doubt in my mind that those "brothers" fully gave back through all aspects of their life, to the organization. Matt 6:24

These are two thoughts, not well connected.   
Anointed ones were initially drawn together BEFORE the organization was established.  It was under this premise, that they gathered:
"Beware of "organization." It is wholly un-necessary. The Bible will be the only rules you need. Do not seek to bind other consciences, and do not permit others to bind yours. Believe and obey so far as you can understand God's word today, and so continue to growing in grace and knowledge day by day." (Zion's Watch Tower, 1895, p. 216.) 
"In view of these facts and also of the nature of the harvest work, and the addition. In fact that each one so gathered is expected to enter into the harvest work as a reaper, and will do so to the extent of his ability and opportunity, it is plain that the forming of a visible organization of such gathered out ones would be out of harmony with the spirit of the divine plan; and, it done, would seem to indicate on the part of the Church a desire to conform to the now popular idea of organization or confederacy. (See Isa. 8:12.) ... While, therefore, we do not esteem a visible organization of the gathered ones to be a part of the Lord's plan in the harvest work, as though we expected as an organization to abide here for another age, we do esteem it to be his will that those that love the Lord should speak often one to another of their common hopes and joys, or trials and perplexities, communing together concerning the precious things of his Word, and so help one another, and not forget the assembling of themselves together as the manner of some is; and so much the more as they see the day approaching. -- Mal. 3: 16; Heb. 10:25." (Zion's Watch Tower, 1894, p. 384.)
"There is no organization today clothed with such divine authority to imperiously command mankind. There is no organization doing this today; though we are well aware that many of them in theory claim that they ought to be permitted to do so; and many more would like to do so. This was the fatal mistake into which the Church began to fall in the second century; and the effort to realize this false conception culminated in the boastful, imperious counterfeiting of the coming Kingdom in Papacy, which for centuries sought to dominate the world, by claimed "divine authority". This idea more or less pervaded and poisoned the ideas of all the Protestant "clergy" as well; who copying Papacy's false ideas of the Church, claim also that the Church of Christ is now organized, though they now make less boastful claims to "divine authority" to teach and rule mankind in general, that the Papacy does." (Zion's Watch Tower, 1893, page 266.)
From, http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/russells-opinion-on-organizations.html 
All of this truth, has dissolved over time; and the organization today at its peak of corruption, shows evidence of its peak as a lie, against God’s anointed, spiritual “organization” under Christ.  Rev 13: 1,2,5-9; 16:13-15
As time has gone by, this priesthood of God has been consumed by a tally of millions who have joined what is now, a necessary “evil”.  There is nothing wrong with people gathered with anointed ones. It is happening on the other side of the WT fence, never to be organized by man’s will.  What is wrong with WT, is the GB’s dismissal of God’s priests gradually, over the spanning years of the organization's development.
Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. Why? Because, through his holy spirit, Jehovah has appointed the older men to their positions.   Wt 02/8/1
 This necessary evil requires a priesthood of its own, where its priests answer to their “High Priest”, the GB.  False christs.  Matt 24:24 Thus, they have "ordained" a priesthood for their own.   True anointed have written on their hearts, the laws of God through the outpouring of Holy Spirit. Heb 8:10 God wouldn’t do this if He didn’t expect His servants to teach the people, as priests have always been admonished to do.  Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9 
 Except for a minority of elders who truly try to “love your neighbor as yourself”, the majority of elders are “heartless” to this guidance Jesus has taught us. Isa 3:12; Ezek 34; Rev 9:9,10; Joel 2:2-9  Those elders who make the effort to obey Christ’s law of love, in most cases leave, or just give up and answer to "lawlessness".
So, the elder body can play the role of a clergy class at its whim in the court systems, when it is advantageous for the organization. Other times, it uses the excuse that all men are imperfect and make mistakes.  As I have said, if the organization belonged to God, only His authentic priests would lead as shepherds.  What would guide them in all cases, would be the "written letter" fulfilled in Christ, and inscribed on their hearts.  2 Cor 3:3
All the excuses made in defense of the organization’s need to fight for its rights in court, mean nothing to God or Christ. It is no different than what other organizations in the world of Satan face.  If Christ said, "my kingdom is not part of this world", (John 18:36)  a JW should ask, why do men make it so?   God's priesthood/Temple has been rejected and trampled, for the sustaining benefit of an idol  (1 Cor 3:16,17)  Matt 24:14; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3; Ezek 44:6-9
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many miracles in your name?’ 23 And then I will say to them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!’  Matt 7:21-23
What has developed over time since its inception, is a devouring monster.  Rev 13:1,2,10,11,12,15

I believe how money can't REPAIR the Trauma.
Money can do other things, other sorts of help for victim.  

I believe how money can't REPAIR the Trauma.
Money can do other things, other sorts of help for victim.