Matthew9969

Just curious and please forgive me if this is a morbid question to some, did anyone ever commit suicide while working at Bethel?

How Great is our God must be a real deal breaker, as one young jw sister once said, that stupid Jesus music.

4 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

Let's give him some credit then:

http://khazarzar.skeptik.net/books/crux002.pdf

What does that have to do with the OP? changing the discussion?

"She put a notice in her local newspaper on May 3 and 4 with an address provided for people to send messages of condolence to the family. "

So some kind women sent her messages of condolences and scriptures to help a grieving widow with a positive message. Sounds like this poor woman had a beef with the jw's, just not with the message they sent her.

On ?9?/?30?/?2017 at 8:14 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

Yes! No wonder you are coughing when you see the amazing accomplishment of those eight dear men you have pictured! 

Look at the witness they have given! And all of our brothers worldwide who wrote in have a share! And, of course, our 175K brothers in Russia are the real heroes. 

Note the two pronounced and permanent spikes in web traffic to jw.org following the April 20th verdict and the July 17th appeal! You have good reason to praise these men, @James Thomas Rook Jr. I understand why you would do it. Millions of people check to see if jw.org is truly extremist as reported. Of course, they see it is not. What an amazing service they have rendered to Jehovah - almost as much as certain ones who go online and do nothing but bitch!

However, James,, you should remember that they are but men, who give all glory to Jehovah. You should not be worshiping these guys.

 

.    https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/jw.org

 

What do you suppose the graph would look like if the A.R.C findings were put on jw.org?

To be honest, growing up for 20 plus years in several different congregations, never was there once a play, a dance, a reception, party ever done at a kingdom hall. Even now, with a close relative who is a jw, they aren't even allowed to have a potluck get together at the local kingdom hall. So why did these things take place....I don't know, what I don know however is I was raised to believe that a kingdom hall was not allowed to be used as a place of celebration...aka party, only meetings, wedding ceremonies and eulogies were allowed. Sure there were wedding receptions, and of course with orchestra music, carefully picked secular music and one in particular I remember was they had a polka band, but these receptions were never at a kingdom hall. I remember a few other examples, but for another time I suppose. (but my child hood was very intense and violent, which I won't go into, if you would like to hear about it send me a message).

I have no grudge with this, anymore the past is the past, no use letting my experience affect my emotional state, at my age this is trivial, but there are aspects of it that are not trivial. IMO, this is just another example of 'new light'. And new light to make the gospel more relevant to believers. A lot of the 'new light' changes coming to congregations is starting to resemble worship services at many other churches, and I have been to a lot of different churches and denominations. If these services have been approved by the C.O. then I'm just curious what prompted the 'new light' revelation of this kind of joy now happening in a few congregations?

But I find your response insincere, judgmental, defensive and accusatory, since you immediately accused me of being a hater, and included in your response stuff that I didn't even mention, but you thought it important to bring up because....I don't know, you have a guilty conscience and want to move the discussion in a total different direction because your uncomfortable...I don't know. And I like how you try to single me out as a young man, what makes you think I am a young man, of course I am familiar with jw terminology and area you calling me a young man is your jw way of saying I am naïve, unknowledgeable and probably mentally diseased since I am no longer a jw? 

So do please share the personal experiences you have had with using the kingdom hall for celebrations where there was dancing, and plays being put on. It's great witnesses are now allowed to do that. And have a wonderful day yourself and enjoy the warm weather while we have it.

4 hours ago, John Houston said:

Hey, matthew9969, do you even know why this is going on? I was around those 15,20 years ago. We did not dance in the halls. UNLESS, there was a celebration there, a function other than a spiritual meeting. So I ask again do you know why we went crazy in our different hall in certain cities, at that time? If not please try not to hate. The principles have not changed. We put on plays and had certain skits for ones during there weddings and anniversaries. To have clean fun and used WORLDLY MUSIC, as you put. We are not the Amish, or did Jesus send us to the outskirts of the cities to live. We also do not only live among ourselves. We love still among this world. But we must live cleanly midst it. Sorry that you found your live drab and dreary. But I went through '75 and the Franz disfellowshipping and the other shake ups in congregational matters. But I put myself through college, my father taught us the truth per scripture, we did not sell everything we continued to wait on Jehovah and follow the leaders that took the reins of leadership. If they are taking us down the wrong knowingly, like Eli allowed his sons to do whatever they wanted, Jehovah and Christ will clean things up, Samuel did not cry and wanted to go back home to mommie. He stayed because he knew whose organization this was, I was taught the very same thing. I taught my children the very same thing!

So, I ask again, do you know WHY these things were happening? Not just in the videos you have posted, but in many more in this country and around the world. I await your response. Have a nice day!

For now if it is at all possible for you to do, do not cherry pick my post, I know its hard for you since this is what jw's are best at, but if your going to insist on cherry picking, post the mostly positive things I said. And no where did I say anything about 1975 or Franz and all that. So your response is just a whiny defensive rebuttal instead of a coherent statement. Please don't comment unless you can do so.

Now I'm not condemning these people for wanting to have some joy inside their house of worship, but a few things stand out...these congregations would have been strongly reproved, if not even some disfellowshipped 10-15 20 years ago. This kind of joy definitely would have made my childhood much more easier to endure. But not just that...at my church, worship is done with christian centered music, by christian artist praising God and Jesus. These video's the brothers and sisters are singing and dancing and plagiarizing worldly music, and dances that have been popular in bars and worldly plays. I'm glad to see brothers and sisters finally being allowed to laugh, dance, have fun while congregating in a kingdom hall, still have some doctrines that are wrong, but they are catching on with what is in the bible about worshiping and praising God with musical instruments and dancing.

On ?10?/?15?/?2017 at 2:23 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

...yes it is. But WT Corporation have no obligations to gives thorough reports to JW members where, how, for what and how much money was used. Members are nothing to WT Corporation, just members which are expected to give donations to "charity".  

What charity?

Since jw women shave their legs, does that mean if a jw man shaves his legs, he is sexually fluid?

Is the governing body again apostatizing from the Jehovah witnesses?

33 When they heard this, they ^twere enraged and wanted to kill them. 34 But a Phariseein the council named ^uGamaliel, ^va teacher of the law held in honor by all the people,stood up and gave orders to put the men outside for a little while. 35 And he said to them,“Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men. 36 For ^wbefore thesedays Theudas rose up, ^xclaiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about fourhundred, joined him. He was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came tonothing. 37 After him Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of ^ythe census and drew awaysome of the people after him. He too perished, and all who followed him were scattered.38 So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for ^zifthis plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail; 39 but ^aif it is of God, you will not beable to overthrow them. You ^bmight even be found opposing God!” Acts:5

To be fair, the watchtower isn't the only religion to claim they are a prophet and give one if not a few dates of the end of the world:

The idea that 1975 would witness the end of the world was first introduced in 1966.

"The published timetable resulting from this independent study gives the date of man's creation as 4026 B.C.E. According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E. So six thousand years of man's existence on earth will soon be up, yes, within this generation. So in not many years within our own generation we are reaching what Jehovah God could view as the seventh day of man's existence. How appropriate it would be for Jehovah God to make of this coming seventh period of a thousand years a sabbath period of rest and release, a great Jubilee sabbath for the proclaiming of liberty throughout the earth to all its inhabitants! This would be most timely for mankind. It would also be most fitting on God's part, for, remember, mankind has yet ahead of it what the last book of the Holy Bible speaks of as the reign of Jesus Christ over earth for a thousand years, the millennial reign of Christ. It would not be by mere chance or accident but would be according to the loving purpose of Jehovah God for the reign of Jesus Christ, the 'Lord of the Sabbath,' to run parallel with the seventh millennium of man's existence." Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God 1966 pp.26-30

"Does God's rest day parallel the time man has been on earth since his creation? Apparently so. In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of Gods rest day come to an end? The year 1975. It means that within a relatively few years we will witness the fulfilment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the "time of the end"." Awake! 1966 Oct 8 pp.19-20

"It did not take the brothers very long to find the chart beginning on page 31, showing that 6,000 years of man's existence end in 1975. Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. "The new book compels us to realize that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed," said a conventioner. Surely it was one of the outstanding blessings to be carried home!" .. Brother Franz. 'Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could! All things are possible with God. Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could. Does it mean that the attack of Gog of Magog is going to be made on Jehovah's witnesses to wipe them out, then Gog himself will be put out of action? It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975. But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short. Time is running out, no question about that." Watchtower 1966 Oct 15 pp.629,631

IT'S AMAZING HOW YOU CAN TAKE THE WORDS "6,000 YEARS OF MANS EXISTENCE WILL END" AND MAKING IT END IN 1975 AND CONCLUDE THAT IT REALLY DIDN'T SAY THAT AT ALL.

Never, that would imply that God is not relevant.

Yeah, Armageddon is going to happen any moment now so lets spend a whole lot of money on building new luxury buildings instead of leading people to Christ.

Courts should definitely get involved when there is an allegation of covering up child abuse and molestation.

14 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I am 71 years old.  To put that in perspective .... I remember when SNL was FUNNY!

Yes, now snl stands for snowflake live night.

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

These things are just signs of things to come. Apostates will blame all JWs for the actions of a selective few inside the Halls they use to attend. These guys don't even know any of the JWs in New York and went in to confront them, if anything, they should confront the Halls they went to before they either left or became excommunicated.

What makes it even more interesting is that this too place during the Texas Church Shooting and the wild random attacks done to Christians outside of the US. AS well as the..... whole Antifa thing lol.

But in all seriousness, these people are hurt, but their actions and conduct only fans the flames even hotter, to the point where someone among them can take action. They go about it like a Tom constantly trying to catch Jerry. If they see, in their eyes, they've failed, surely one or a few of them will attempt something wild, some or one of them may have already vandalized a hall or two, eventually, becoming an enemy to themselves in a pointless vigilante conquest with no end path.

The Texas thing, people stated we can't blame all atheist for the actions of the one who did what he did to the Church, in a similar sense, the apostates can't blame all JWs for actions of what a few bad ones have done. (if you look up "atheist" now, everything about Texas pops up).

The apostates only objective is the JWs, and them alone, toppling anyone in their path as they try to attack the JWs. They do not realize or acknowledge the things going on around them, you'd think the "Canon Law" would trigger them too.

The thing the apostates never ask is "why" the JWs believe in this or that, which I find quite surprising. I saw a comment from a Russian, stating that the apostates when on a raid pre-jw ban in Russia and attacked even Russian Youtubers for backing JWs, after the ban and the ban on the bible (really a rouse to ban ALL bibles overtime), the apostates ignored Russia after that while the Russians are left to the devices of the Kremlin and the Orthodox Church, so far to the pint an NSA-like website is used for separate groups, one for protesters, another for religious people, etc.

 

NOTE: the rule that they really dislike, I found a better explanation of it: http://thirdwitness.com/childabuse/Twowitness.html

The first part of video talks about the Texas Shooting, you don't have to watch the other parts, that talk about Disney, the Social Media brainwashed people and other forms of attacks in the Christian world, etc.

 

Thank you for the video, but do you believe all apostates wish to do something like this, and most of your so-called apostates are born into the watchtower., they know your doctrines very well, they like me were born and raised in the watchtower. And the watchtower and all the kingdom hall's are a business, not a religion, and the watchtower has set up secret policy and procedures to protect child molesters and abusive parents. Any business is accountable to the laws of the land.

That is definitely the wrong way to go about having a dialogue with witnesses. This is a better way.....

That was horrible to watch, like a bad politicaly charged SNL skit.

And jw's say the trinity doctrine is confusing.....

That's nice, now she can be officially disfellowshipped and kicked out of her parents house at 10 years old.

3 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

A two part answer would be appropriate here: 

1. Why not? If they believe Paul's description of themselves that they are "ambassadors substituting for Christ" (2Cor 5:20) and that Christ is the ruler of Jehovah's Messianic Kingdom (Rev.12:10), then why not have a suitable embassy premises? And if they believe in an imminent intervention by Jehovah as described at Dan 2:44, and the salvation of all suitable humans as described at Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21, Rom 10:13, Revelation 7:10, 14, then why not build a suitable premises for the direction of the various necessary scriptural duties requisite to preparation for that intervention? (Matt.28:18-20) And do you think they believe this building will be destroyed by Jehovah if it is in existence and operating in harmony with His requirements when that intervention takes place?

2. Regarding the costings, do you have an income and expenditure breakdown to justify this statement: 

 

As we all know, the watchtower refuses to let any one see any of that info., but one of the governing body did say their not bringing in as much money as they are expected to spend.

http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/stephen-lett-admits-incomeexpenditure-shortfall-as-he-reminds-witnesses-to-donate-valuable-things