Space Merchant

Give the Congo a visit, perhaps the islands. You cannot judge a faith community as a whole for the actions of one. This is the same problem I have to teach strictly to racists who discriminate time and time again because of one's color. A guy who does a crime does not define a whole race, a man who bombs a school does not define a whole group, etc. The mind set and mentality of the West, at times, is silly.

Unfortunately his aim is to use the information from Pearl, which was not the first time, to address religious leadership, not realizing facts in regards to the church's history outs weights the claim. Moreover, some of the verses he had address do not even match up with references and or context, of which I pointed out in regards to an ill use of such, which has been addressed in Biblical Fact 5 above,for this fact originates from a message taken from a message some years ago.

The Galatians 3:28 Card as is said in regards to those who attempt to defend religious leadership of women in the church. This verse has been brought up time and time again for decades and every time this claim, this little card that is under the sleeves of those who believe such are proven wrong. We even see here that Witness and you fill the bill here and the both of you refuse to to see that, hence the response the both of you gave. What we all can agree with here is yes the verse speaks of being one in Christ, however, this verse has nothing to do with religious leadership, and using this verse, as many man many have done before the both of you, to make a stance on the changing of the church's structure, is the very thing Paul addresses the church to avoid in the Galatians chapter 1. Therefore, using this verse to make such a stance is silly when we see this passage speaks the very thing is is focused on. But is is odd for you to be mentioning this verse when we have already seen you speak ill of Abraham, calling him selfish without even understanding of why he did what he did, mind you, this is coming from the same guy [you] who have alluded to before God has no issue, not being surprised with males or females changing their sex or the very fact God would have done something else if Abraham was left for dead. Come on now, Sostar, and I won't even link that information too because I know it will vanish the following day. Now, as you can see I will not link your response, I will quote you because sometimes when I do link something it is gone the next day. Anyways, the claims match up with what both you and Witness had said about the verse, and the facts of the response from actual sources says otherwise, so no, calling it an opinion will not help you here. Sostar stated: This same Paul here said very advanced and almost innovative thought. He abolishes all the social divisions that are characteristic of the society in which they lives. I primarily think of Jewish society and religion as an indivisible part of the Jew people. Eliminates the difference on the basis of nationality. Eliminates the difference of status on a social scale caused by position or origin in society. Eliminates differences caused by belonging to sex, gender. (It not surprised if some talking how First Christians was the Religious Communist with the ideas of a classless, egalitarian society that shared their land and their other property and similar.) There was nothing about social divisions whatsoever. Galatians had both the Jews and the Gentiles who both believed in the same thing, and at the time because of their differences they were not normally keen on someone not of their own being with them. This barrier has been broken because of them being One in Christ. It does not matter the sex, age, background, old, young, etc. They, are one in Christ for their is neither male or female,for they are the sharers of Abraham's Seed, that same seed you spoke of in regards of Abraham being selfish, hen you have been corrected when we can clearly see Abraham was not selfish and he did what he did for the Promise of what God said to him. Hence why I said before to you, no Abraham, no Seed. No Seed, God's Promise is the very first among what he spoke of to be broken, thus shattering all foretellings of what is to come for nothing would have taken place in Bethlehem. Unlike you, I don't see Abraham as a selfish man, and because of this, I totally agree with Apostle Paul in terms of Salvation, but seeing how Witness is egging you on here, I guess one could say the both of you may see him as such, but have the audacity to speak of Jesus in a good light. All in all, Galatians 3:28 has nothing to do with religious leadership or authority regarding women, it is not even talking about men here either, it simply points to and makes a strong indication, in true context of Salvation, for being saved by means of Salvation means being One in Christ, in Union with the Christ and in turn The Christ is the only way to the Father, YHWH God who is the true El Shaddai. Granted of how Witness agrees with you, let alone the chapter, that is enough proof there to even show you of what the passage as a whole in context is conveying here. I will do you a favor and post it for you as with the title of where the verse is located under: [The Law and the Promise] >>>> HERE Visual for C/P: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+3&version=ESV Not really, the response came from actual facts, not of opinion and or other. Inspired Chaos and as to what makes you want to bring this up and not have anything say to back up such claim? In the Church of Corinth, there were things that were deemed problematic, which resulted in Apostle Paul writing a letter to them to build them up so they do things accordingly, in fact, the very history of the chaos going on in the Church of Corinth can be read, and yes, historical facts, something you cannot grasp that easily even when it is presented to you in your face. If you have not noticed, I spoke of the very subject in the chapter's passage itself: Orderly Worship, and because of what can be read and the references that is directly pointing to it, historical facts gave this title of the church: The Troubled Church. But what to expect from a man who is shown to be lacking in biblical and church history? What to even say of a man who is given the information, but simply ignores it? Because such a man does not want to be seen as wrong. Now, it is already know that when Apostle Paul was in Ephesus, he had learned about the problems that came about in the new church in Corinthians and because of this, he wrote this letter to instruct them on how to deal with these problems. Even in today's day and age, the church continue to face many of these same problems, many centuries after Apostle Paul wrote this letter and this is the very reason why when instruction is to be used in disciplinary action, this passage is often used to correct the wrongs that rise among the church itself. If you truly do not have any idea of why Apostle Paul was instructing the Church of Corinth, I suggest you take a good read at every cross-reference in this chapter from start to finish, or simply read from chapter 12 to 14 and there you will see the context in full, as in, The church was taught and they listen, but over time they have succumb to division and badness,jealously and abusing of the gifts, and when this had be discovered, this prompt Paul to speak to instruct those in Corinth to cease the chaos going about in the church of which is deemed problematic. Only later on we see that Apostle Paul's instruction has been accepted and the church actually made the attempt when being accepting of Paul's critical instruction. The question is, how in Lord's name did you miss that? For if you actually took the time to read both First and Second Epistles, you'd realized that, the shock here is your friend didn't point that out to you in regards to the Church of Corinth. This information is elementary, for even the most novice of Theologians can see this for themselves. No, there is no possibility, because anyone can see of such ones in the church abusing the gifts, causing division, influence of sin, prideful behavior and a list of other things, this is why anyone bringing up facts in regards to The Church of Corinth will state that the Church is Troubled, Chaos filled, Divided, Problematic, and or in need of being disciplined and or instructed. If sin is among the people, or ill practices regarding abusing the gifts, it is obvious Apostle Paul will respond, for there was a reason behind this letter. These are merely facts from a source. I never stated anywhere that a women is to be 100% silent in a church whatsoever. The women in Corinth were silent due to the very fact a majority of them were taking part in those among the divided doing bad practices in the church, for if you had read the Epistles of Paul, you'd realize that. If I recall, it was only you who spoke of silence in a literal sense, for what I stree is that religious leadership is something that a women should not do because it goes in accordance with what Paul brought up in terms of reason. Witness called it an opinion, but the cross-references to Paul's statement says otherwise. Little Srecko, little Screko, allow me to correct you because like that of a child who has never been disciplined, you continue to dwell on something that is clearly not in the right. You do not see what this verse conveys and this small claim of yours shows it. We already know about what took place in Pentecost, the gifts, and one among these gifts enabled Jews coming from more than a dozen different lands to hear God's Word in a language of their own as seen in Acts 2:4-11. We later see that such was used for the Edification of the Church. That is why Apostle Paul stressed that no one should speak in a strange tongue, but rather, have an interpreter [to "him" the glossolalist] be present so that all could benefit from it, otherwise, the man is to be silent, hence the very connection to 1 Cor. 14:28. If that isn't enough for you, simply look the verse in biblehub, pick any translation, since you tend to go for many colorful flavors that ails you, as you have done in the past. This also furthermore the point from the very fact itself, hence why it can be said the church in Corinth was indeed problematic, and so, instruction was given by Paul. And what of 1 Corinthians 14:27 (14:5) and 29 (Acts 13:1)? The reason why men are to be silence in Corinth is already known, granted you never gave the context as to why this is, it is safe to say not even you understood it at first yourself, mainly with some of the comments you have made on this topic alone. Other than that, why care for these 2 verses now when you ignored them before? Like I told you before, the Jehovah's Witnesses or the Watchtower cannot say you here, and you only proven yourself to be incorrect, granted that anyone even to Theologians know the history of Restorationist. for last I recall, and according to the very history of the Apostolic age and EVERY Christian that came from the Great Awakening who are Restorationist, do not influence sin, they do not go about causing a division in the church for ill means, granted that they do not follow the Creed,but rather, that of the Apostolic Age and a whole list of other things. I instructed you on the Apostolic Age before and here we see you bring up Restrationist when you have no idea of the history. I can give you a hint though, those of the Apostolic Age are in connection with one church, nothing in regards to the Galatians, or the Corinthians, granted they all share the same beliefs, but there is a very famous passage regarding the church built 2,000 years ago. I leave that with you as homework because you have failed several times before, even with a historical information given to you several times before, hence, the original church did not begin in Corinth, for Corinth was just an extension of that. Other than that, this puts what Gone Away had spoken of you elsewhere, as in comparing with your statement on this response and what you said on the previous page, seems kind of convoluted in a ploy to attempt something that is unknown to us, but known to you. The instruction Paul profess to the Corinth is used, however, anyone who knows the history of where they trace themselves back to. But I do invite you to speak on apostolic succession on another occasion, apparently it is not the time and place here for such. And? Your point? Actually, since Apostle Paul was addressing the Church of Corinth after discovering of what is taking place, he was saying exactly what he met here. There is no 2 different silence and or any idea of silence, so don't make such a claim of which you cannot back up. The Strong's pretty much tells you in this regard: https://biblehub.com/greek/4601.htm It is a G 4601 by the way. He speaks of the women being silent here due to the very issues deemed problematic taking place in the Church of Corinth, as I have said before, there is the facts, which are true, an the evidence, which are also true, of which you can even find and read in the Bible - that is, if you want to bird your way out of this one, I would not really be surprised, as you have done countless times. Granted he is writing a letter to discipline and instruct, advising them to build themselves up and backing away from mixing what they did practice with what is bad, then yes. I would not call it his own advice, you are not a Sunni Muslim, so do not make that claim, but rather him being the very one to speak far more in tongues than the people of Corinth, having more experience and the like, the very one who has the Spirit that has been poured to him, is instructing the church. And? And what is the point you are trying to make by stopping at just 36? Continue reading, Sostar. Apostle Paul was addressing those among the divided who were doing what they were not suppose to be doing. Also the following verses even addresses the conclusion to solidified what Paul is conveying regarding the church. Once again, the immediate context is about Orderly Worship, in regards to the Church of Corinth, for nowhere it is stated of any church but the only the one being focused here, the one in Corinth of which Paul sent word of instruction. As for the Law, in Paul's response to the Corinthians by means of a letter, he is referencing to the teaching of which is even suggested by Scholars in regards to The Genesis Creation narratives when he had this in mind, with the implications for Order and propriety in relationships between men and women. Furthermore, in what Paul had profess points to several verses, granted that Paul is the type to speak in direct of scripture as he have in his other writings. Genesis 3:16 being one some will point to as well as Paul's use of general terms the law includes Isaiah 3:12 or other similar principles in connection with what he had said, this is the same cause that can be said of Simon Peter who did somewhat of the same thing, hence that the role of submission of wives to husbands and the general male leadership role principles are moral laws of God’s nature (or God's Purpose and Will,as well as Order), which cannot be changed. Other verses that pertain to verse 34 alone in regards to "as the Law also says", according to Paul:1 Corinthians 11:5, 15, 14:21, 35, Ephesians 5:22, 1 Timothy 2:11, 12, 1 Peter 3:1. Scholarly info is also a suggested read, should you choose to. Now, when some in the church had a message by means of teaching to give to the church it was a word of prophecy in public. Any situation some such message was given it had to be tested and evaluated against Scripture to make sure that it was valid and true. When it was validated it would be considered authoritative and in a sense binding to those who heard it. The Bible explains in several places are marriages are to work in loving submission to each-other, but with the husband having the responsibility of headship, furthermore, while a husband may consult his wife and reach a decision together, ultimately he has the burden of being responsible for the final choices made. In this context of this particular church, this means that men have the responsibility of evaluating, approving and delivering teaching to the whole body - once again, of what the focus is, religious leadership of authority within the church, priestly office, etc. Since women do cannot have such authoritative responsibility, they are asked not to be the ones voicing concerns or pronouncing judgement when certain matters arise. One has to take into account that Apostle Paul did not restrict women from praying or even prophesying publicly themselves as seen in 1 Corinthians 11:5 and Acts 2:17. This is purely an issue of headship and authority, which the Law also spoke to rather than an edict against speaking in a church and participating in other ways. Some women are still bounded by such restrictions, for this would primarily be the father who is responsible for daughters until they are given over to a husband, but a brother or other family relation could play a similar role. So it is no surprise Apostle Paul said what he said to the women in Corinth. But here we see you speaking as if you think he is addressing all churches when we see him speaking about only one in this regard. And? You think a guy who has read every account on women of the bible would not have known about Chloe? Everyone knows who she is, and she is only address once - literally. And she is addressed in 1 Corinthians 1:11. No, Chloe is not a religious leader in Corinth, the fact you even said that makes shows that what you just said is hypocrisy, an actual lie for that matter that is perhaps greater than your other ones, granted the very weight of the evidence is as big as the Sun compared to your claim that is very disturbing. No one has ever in their lifetime and or practice would even consider such of what you have address just now and that my friend, is sickening and a showy remark of someone who clearly does not understand his Bible. To be very brief, Chloe was living among her household and had only contacted Paul via letter to inform him of what the Church of Corinth is doing, again, chaos, if it got a woman such as her to write, than you'd realize the problem, and it points to your contradiction, Sostar. We later find out that Paul discovers and goes about his way to handle the situation with success. Because Chloe and her household were vigilante and aware of the division and practices of that church and taking action, she was indeed a peace maker, granted in biblical historic accounts, she is known as a peace keeper just for this action alone to which she was only addressed once. Like I told you before, there are many women in the Bible who are indeed heroes. Chloe is a woman through a household of which Apostle Paul received reports concerning the issues existing in the church of the Corinthians, hence the only verse of which the House of Chloe was even mentioned 1 Corinthians 1:11. Although Apostle Paul’s Epistle does not state, anywhere, that Chloe was a Christian living in Corinth or Ephesus, moreover, in view of the Apostle’s reference to this household by name (The House of Chloe), evidently at least some members of the home, either family members or slaves, were Christians known to the Corinthians. Paul soon addresses quarreling within the church of the Corinthians and was enabled to do so due to Chloe’s people, her household, who had reported those quarrels to Paul. These reports were not rumors and or of gossip either, they were an attempt to get Paul’s help in resolving a problem within the church, hence the discovery by Paul of what was taking place. The source of the quarrel is revealed to be the people were divided as well as their issue with who should be in Pastoral Office. We can see the division when it is said by some that they: I follow Paul I follow Peter (or Cephas) I follow Apollos I follow Christ Therefore, the Corinthians were segmenting themselves unnecessarily and wrongfully. We soon find out Apostle Paul's discovery led to a response, reminding them that Christ is not divided and that Jesus’ is the name under which all believers are saved and baptized, check out 1 Corinthians 1:12-16. He adds that the Christ had appointed him, Paul, to preach the good news of the gospel, but not with wisdom and eloquence, for the Christ be made powerless and or useless, empty of power. In response to the concerns of Chloe’s household, Apostle Paul states that the Christ is the one who saves and that the power of the gospel is His power, see Romans 1:16. For Apostle Paul, Simon Peter, and Apollos were all preaching Christ’s message of the gospel. The believers should always follow Christ as the Shepherd, rather following men, whose eloquent words often create competition with one another and or those who clearly are not in application of Christ's message. Quarreling should not be among us who are baptized whom or what preacher is more gifted. Wisdom of a man is not the point of the gospel, but rather, the Christ’s work is what saves, is what redeems us, the people. Chloe her household were aware enough to look and see for themselves the division occurring in the church. The actions of the Corinthians in their church, to put men who do not apply the teachings to be elevated above God and so they wrote to Apostle Paul asking for his help in order to resolve this matter. In seeking the assistance of the proper authority in the church (in their case, an Apostle, who just happens to be Paul). That being said, Chloe was never a religious leader of any church, so do not make such a broken claim among claims. Chloe and her household were peacemakers, take a good look at Matthew 5:9 and understand what that means. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." The irony is that the other guy didn't point this out, he agreed with your words every step of the way. Other than that let's stick with this claim of yours, Sostar: Chloe is woman, sister of the Corinth congregation, obviously in position of leading the church. And she has important contacts with Paul and with handling things in cong. The Truth: The name appears only once in the New Testament, in 1 Corinthians 1:11 in the context of "the house of Chloe". The Truth: Chloe is only mention once and not even spoken of as a religious leader, as you claim > https://biblehub.com/greek/5514.htm That being said, I advise you to go read, learn, and put into application in anything and everything regarding The First Epistle to the Corinthians, written by Apostle Paul https://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Letter-of-Paul-to-the-Corinthians You are going to need it, Srecko Sostar. Read for the truth, man. Because you are obviously showing right now, and even before that you have no idea what is going on here. And that being said, nothing you have proven here in terms of religious leadership is even sound or clear, it is the opposite, cryptic and clearly not understanding of what even you yourself have said, hence the flaws. Read up on the facts because those are solidified facts from the last comment, clearly such is not even in your league right now because you are still far from what the Bible says on many accounts, not just this one. Click on those that are listed and go about doing the research, you have tools such as YouTube and Goggle and it has not stopped you before, why is it stopping you at this very moment? All in all, perhaps you will learn something, but it is unlikely because you will respond in a way to be corrected, but hey, if a man loves to be corrected every time, so be it, this is not the first time I have discussed such a topic and or entered into one.

I will leave it as this should anyone say otherwise when clearly such ones are at fault because it seems people do not understand what the Bible says on this matter, or just either confused and or ignorant, for such people think they could get away with the very cake they made and attempt to eat it too, but be assured, that cake will be slapped out of their greased hands before even the frosting touches their lips - a waste yes, but they must learn to lay off the sweets that will only hinder them in the long run. Does the Bible allow women to serve as senior pastors over a congregation or is this a role that is reserved only for men? What people tend to do: They are very appealing to culture regarding women who are leading in areas of politics or on the job and the corporate space and all sorts of other places in today's current culture, what they fail to see of which is indeed a danger equally such to the church in terms of leadership and authority, not taking into account of what the Bible has to say. They're also open to and appeal towards experience, for some will say their pastor is a woman of religious leadership, pours on to them and they say she has the gift of pastoring and preaching way better than most of the men that they know The danger here is that experience, which stems from the mainstream and New Aged ones, is not always consistent with what the Bible has to say. Some Facts about Women in the Bible: [1] Biblical Fact Women have and always will play an extremely significant role in advancing God’s Kingdom and there are several examples of this in the Greek New Testament. [A] Although already addressed, it will be very brief: Priscilla along with her husband Aquila taking aside a man named Apollos, traveling evangelists at the time and correcting his theology in teaching him sound and correct Biblical Doctrine. We see in The Gospel of Luke 8:2, 3 that Jesus himself mentioned several women that supported him greatly in the ministry. [C] Apostle Paul in Romans chapter 16:1-16 listed about 16 people and about 10 of them at least were women who strongly supported him in his ministry in addition to what can be read in Acts 21 (brief since it has been mentioned), we see that Philip had four unmarried daughters all of whom were prophesying or speaking forth the Word of God, as well as in 1 Corinthians 11:5, Apostle Paul allows and even encourages women to pray and to prophesy publicly and or speak in the church for these reasons and others. Some will attempt to make a very strong case for women being able to speak or preach or share or whatever you want to call it, publicly in the church, but they fail miserably to assume that a women who do such things can and or are able to be religious leaders of authority within the church when such has not been expressed by even the women in the Bible. [2] Biblical Fact Within the church, two different roles does not diminishing of one's value whatsoever. In the Scriptures, it is very clear that God is a God of Order, in other words, God has set up certain orders in the home (The Structure of the Family), and He has set up certain orders in church (The Structure of the Church). We look at the home, the family, for there is clearly a distinction between men's role as a husband and also the woman's role as a wife but this does not in any way shape or form make the woman less important than the man just because she serves in a different role, function, and or capacity - we also we look at God the Father, for we know below him is Jesus and the Angels and they submit to God and we know, how in subjection, they function. The Bible supports that not just women but people in general have a different role different function, mainly when we take into account the church but in no way because they have a different role or different gifts or whatever does not equal to that of diminishing of one’s value in their contribution to the ministry, of which is a core component to the church itself, practiced by those in the Spiritual House. [3] Biblical Fact There are no known women pastors in the Greek New Testament. Period. We do not see any examples of women leading, overseeing, and or shepherding a flock of people, having authority of leadership in the church. Some people will make attempt to go jump all the way back to the Hebrew Old Testament and bring up Prophetess Miriam or Deborah. This is where we must be very careful and clearly those who think otherwise are not doing the best of being cautious and being revealed to be twisting Scripture in regards to their own feelings and opinions. They fail in this sense because they do not know and or remain totally ignorant, for instance, let’s focus on Prophetess Deborah, she was she was a Judge over The Nation of Israel, not a pastor or religious leader of authority over church, locally or not, therefore we should not being attempt to use Prophetess Deborah in order to push an accursed practice or tradition of women leadership within and over a church. For people like this will try to use an example from the Hebrew Old Testament to try to prove something that's going on in the Greek New Testament regarding the church, this kind of action is to what some will say this is a Biblical Violation and those who say that have every strong reason to say such because it is true. In the Hebrew Old Testament, God was dealing specifically with the Nation of Israel, we do not want to look at the Nation of Israel, for we want to look at how God is setting up the church in terms of leadership as seen in the Greek New Testament regarding the church. [4] Biblical Fact The Messiah/Christ, Jesus, selected only men to serve as his Apostles and or to establish the leadership of the Greek New Testament church, for it is said by some that by means of God's perfect Will, men take the leadership role of overseeing the local church. Apostle Paul, of whom addressed the roles of religious position by those of authority also referred to each role in identification of one who is a male (man) - of which will be addressed below. [5] Biblical Fact There are passages of Scripture in the Greek New Testament that suggest that the role of higher and or senior pastor is reserved primarily for men for instance 1 Timothy 3 gives the qualifications of anyone who wants to be an overseer or an elder or a pastor of a church so when you look at 1 Timothy chapter 3, it is very clear that as you go through that chapter itself, Apostle Paul, as is briefly mentioned in Biblical Fact 4, is using specifically and exclusively the Male Pronoun. Qualifications for Overseers [1] The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. [2] Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, [3] not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. [4] He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, [5] for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? [6] He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. [7] Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil. And so this passage in and of itself suggest that God has reserved the role of religious leadership of authority, in this case a higher and or senior pastor, once again, specifically for men. Within the same point the passage, the most strongest passage in this regard in the entirety of the Greek New Testament is 1 Timothy 2:11-14. I have already made mention to this passage in full context, clearly one that is being ignored here because it is a very strong one, as it is with anyone who speaks on this subject. For it reads: 1 Timothy 2:11-14 – (11) Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. (12) I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. (13) For Adam was formed first, then Eve; (14) and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Some will say this is of Paul's own opinion, that he Paul a distinction between his own opinion, and one derived from God's Holy Spirit and they will bring up 1 Corinthians 7:6, 25, and 40 as seen in page 1 of this thread. As we can see here, Paul in this passage above was not speaking of The Unmarried and the Widowed in this passage, nor was he speaking about Principles of Marriage for everything mentioned in the verse above (1 Timothy 2:11-14), not of which not even in connection with the verse in Timoty, the actual references will be mentioned below in Green: 1 Corinthians 11:8, 14:34 1 Tim. 2:10 Titus 2:3-5 Genesis 2:7, 22, 3:6, 13, 16, 20 2 Corinthians 11:3 I invite anyone who reads to look at the cross-references for themselves to see the verses mention are indeed true to this passage vs. those who make the claim such is an opinion of Paul when everything he has said in 1 Timothy 12:11-14 has a reason and it points to one thing. Now, in terms of church leadership, Apostle Paul goes back to Creation (hence the mention of Adam and Eve), for he is in no way shape or form speaking of anything of culture, or as we can see nothing in terms of widows and or marriages, for we know that Paul was the one to be direct and specific with the churches in his Epistles/Letters. Apostle Paul goes back to Creation because it is something that always was and always will be, Apostle Paul states that a man was created first and the woman was created second; to be a helpmate/helper for the man. Due to this, it has led people to believe that because Apostle Paul does go all the way back to Creation because this is God's Order, that this is God's Will for leadership within the Greek New Testament church. Finally there's another, and yet, passive Scripture in this regard, 1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 (34) the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. (35) If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. of which Apostle Paul was dealing with a very problematic issue going on in the City of Corinth,of which will be address all the way down below. [6] Biblical Fact Women can possess The Spiritual Gift of teaching, shepherding, ministering , prophesying publicly, etc. without necessarily serving in any religious leadership of authority. She may have the Spiritual Gift of being able to oversee to lead to shepherd to rebuke to hold people accountable to care for a group of people but not necessarily being called to lead a group of men or an entire church, for instance she may feel the calling to shepherd or prophesy publicly to, minister to others, perhaps women's group or ministering to children and or youth, or some other type of ministry where she is able to speak Wisdom into people's lives even on a greater level than a man could ever do. It is also possible that a woman could possess a stronger Gift of speaking, preaching and pastoring than a man can, of which no one is making an absurd argument against in which women do many things way better than men do, for in respects to context, the Bible encourages women to use these particular Gifts. and women do take examples of which can be found in passages like Proverbs 31:10-31. Some Common Objections regarding leadership roles of authority among other things [Claim 1]: No Education, No Leadership People will make the claim that women are not permitted to be religious leaders of authority because in The Greek New Testament women were not educated enough to be religious leaders. [The Response]: The issue with that is that nowhere in the Greek New Testament does it suggest or even stresses such regarding education as a prerequisite for people being able to serve in a particular role in the church. For if some want to make such a claim, they will also have to speak on behalf of others, even men, such as the Disciples, and others, who had followed Jesus, all and each on their level of intelligence and expertise differ from one another. It is easy to point one who speaks deceit in their claim in this regard. [Claim 2]: Those pushing the old Galatians 3:28 Card People will point to Galatians 3:28 which reads: There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. They will continue, even argue that this is legitimate proof that there is no distinction anymore between men and women, for men should be able to do everything women can do and women should be able to everything that men can do, vice versa as with other things deemed unfounded. [The Response]: These types of people take that Scripture, Galatians 3:28, way out of context. And as to what is the actual, the true context that puts the false one to shame? It is very simple, so simple even a child is able to comprehend the truth out of the very lie professed by others. The actual and true, solidified context of this passage is talking about: Salvation (hence Being One In [or In Union with] Christ). For in terms of Salvation, or rather Being One or In Union with Christ - race, sex, free or slave,, young, old, whatever, etc. being one with Christ indicates that both men and women can be saved for Salvation is for the both of them, as is of mankind who accepts what is true. In regards to the time of Paul, Greeks can be saved, slaves can be saved, Jews can be saved, etc. there is no distinction between who can come to a relationship with Jesus Christ and in turn, with God the Father. So, this verse, Galatians 3:28, is not talking in any way shape or form about church leadership authority whatsoever. [Claim 3]: Women Prophesying People will make the claim that women are spoken of to have been prophesying, in an attempt to make it seem as though because they can do as such, they can be leaders in the church. [The Response]: The true of the matter is any references to men or women prophesying, especially in regards to EVERYTHING written by Apostle Paul, it points back to speaking publicly, granted of which took place immediately after Pentecost: preaching the gospel, speaking of God’s Kingdom, talk about the Messianic Age of Christ returning (very reason why today’s Samaritans and several others wait for Him to return). All of what has taken place all equating to the Great Commission itself, and eventually there will be a time of ceasing the spreading of the gospel, and the End will most indeed come. More information can be found here: https://biblehub.com/greek/4395.htm [Claim 4]: The Times have changed, the people have changed, and the church must change. [The Response]: The thing is, you cannot change the church. It is one thing for the church to learn and adapt as well as apply as they progress, but the core functions of the church cannot be touched. As we speak, the mainstream is doing the opposite and a whole lot of things even to the point where levels of inappropriate behavior and clothing are allowed in the church. All and all, such ones are very open and accepting of religious leaders and pastors who are indeed women, the factor of the matter is such ones put into application of their view of the church rather than the Bible itself. [Claim 5]: Prophetess Deborah Most people speak of Deborah’s leadership of authority and make this a claim of which women can lead the church. [The Response]: As addressed in the evidence above, Prophetess Deborah was a Judge of the Nation of Israel, not a church, of which we see many churches of them solely in the Greek New Testament. Another factor is the Temples of Old, usually sons and Fathers were the ones to be of Priesthood of such, an example would be Aaron, or perhaps Samuel. [Claim 6]: Being Silent Most people among the most extreme believe that a women should not speak at all and they should keep silent entirely inside the church, using Apostle Paul’s words for the wrong reasons. Others will push the idea that this passage does not exist, but these same people never read a manuscript or two that defeats their claim. Other know this passage is there and pretends it does not exist and or they lack to see what Paul was addressing in Corinth. Others will direct this verse for women only, granted it does speak of them, but several verses back it also speaks of men to be silent also - again, Paul was trying to instruct and buildup The Church of Corinth for they were dealing with a great deal of problems. [The Response]: The passage in question does indeed say women should be silent, however, if anyone understood the context of this passage, they’d realize that it is due to disorderly conduct that was taking place in The Church of Corinth. Those in Corinth succumb to conduct that is not Christian like. The Church of Corinth had chaos and lack of order, and such was running rampant within the confines of the church, hence verse 33. Everyone in the church was participating with whatever expression they desired, whenever they desired, as loudly as they desired. Those with the Gift of Tongues were speaking simultaneously, and no one was concerned with interpreting what was being said. Those with a revelation from God were shouting out randomly, even if what was said could not be heard above, and apparently no one was evaluating what was being offered as prophecy. The church meetings were not appealing for the main stage of what is going on is utter chaos, and no one was being instructed as if it is like a kindergarten class with no teacher and or any supervisor, moreover, we see examples of what is going on in verses 5, 12, and 19. Apostle Paul had a solution, he instructs a number of people to be silent at a certain time and under certain conditions and speaks in a way to buildup the church (1 Corinthians 14:27-28a, 29-31a, 34-35). So it is absurd for any man to use and twist a passage for gain, mainly this one in an attempt to totally silence women in the church when no chaotic conduct is being done by them in the church. That being said, those who think otherwise need to learn and actually pay attention to what the small letters in the Bible actually points to, for they are there for a reason. For it is easy for one to have the mindset of the mainstream and think they can get away with speaking of things that is entirely different as to what the Bible says, and such ones have to learn what putting context is, you cannot mix bad milk with good milk.

@Srecko Sostar Granted we are talking about Prophetess, this is unrelated. What I can say, for someone who has visited Thailand several times, monks indeed take up Alms, but since the change of the times, they take and receive other things, especially the ones you find in Maha Sarakham.

At times it can cost anything. Pour encercler un homme assez longtemps, l'opprimer et le faire souffrir, il finira par se défendre par tous les moyens. meaning if you corner a man long enough, to oppress him and make him suffer, he will end up defending himself by all means. Christians will and always will subjection themselves to Spiritual Warfare and or Civil Disobedience, which at times even when faced with and or in subjection to grave injury and or possibly death. Even with such intense situations what remains intact is one thing, their belief in what is true. A Real Christians would never crack under pressure, but you'd be surprised of those who claim to be True Christians break like an egg being tossed into the street. The crazy thing is a lot of people in the realm of religion do not know what is going on, for there are things not many people know of what is going, hence the type of stuff I tend to dwell in. All I can say things will get worse, with a price tag attached to it.

What of Paul's dealing with the Temple of Artemis? That being said, Christians will go to Civil Disobedience should their faith be in subjection to things that can effect it. As we can see here, no political ploy going about such ones, for it is an act of defending their faith to those who are attempting to halt said faith. And it has been done by all persons, for instance, the whole situation with Christians vs. Satanist activities for the last couple of years, even that one situation in Detroit, the other being at a Cemetery. When it comes to defending what is deemed true, like Paul, anything in the realm of Spiritual Warfare and Civil Disobedience will be in total usage. That being said, this is Russia we are talking about. The same country that has removed all personnel who will influence others to not pick any side whatsoever, and to not partake in an event that glorifies violence.

As in? It is a number, granted as to the amount of those of the New Holy City seen standing on Zion. Its verse 22 for 21 [Paul] speaks in question of of the Law, but all in all it is included in Apostle Paul using the bondwoman and free woman in this symbolic example. For 22, in this verse, the Slave Girl points to Genesis 16:15 which references to Hagar, while Free Woman points to Genesis 21:2, 3, referencing Sarah. Verses 21–31, the title being, Example of Hagar and Sarah, [outlined: Hagar and Sarah: two covenants (21-31) Jerusalem above, our mother, is free (26)] Apostle Paul indicates 2 Covenants, of which he had spoken of symbolically (algorism as some point out). Moreover, Apostle Paul also shows us that Ishmael was the one to taunt and make fun of his half-brother, Isaac, mocking him, as some know it to be regarding heir-ship: For Ishmael was born naturally by normal means (nature descent) and we already know of his mother, Hagar, was a slave girl/handmaid/servant. As for Isaac, he was born due to God enabling the elderly Sarah to conceive a child in her late age, for she was 90 years of age when he bore Isaac, being obviously overjoyed by his birth, hence why back in Galatians, Sarah spoken of as a free woman, not bonded as a slave compared to Hagar, for Apostle Paul showed the symbolic differences in the birth of Ishmael and Isaac. Now, after some time we see how Ishmael treats his young half-brother on occasion and Sarah herself was the one who witnessed such things of Hagar’s son. For she was in fear of what may come for Isaac, she was concerned and had told her husband, Abraham to send Hagar and her son off, to dismiss them. For at first, Abraham didn't want to do that, but God spoke to him and said to Abraham to listen to Sarah, in addition, he also stated he will take care of Ishmael and Hagar, informing him not to worry, lastly, stating that it is through Isaac , his son/Sarah's son that His Promises will come true - (Genesis 21:1-14). From this information alone, the reader can see what is being seen here should they apply context. Yes, Jerusalem from above is of the free woman, hence why Paul used the example, and everyone is also aware that Apostle Paul knows that such ones who are of this fold, even heirs of it, are of Abraham’s offspring, that being Abraham to Isaac, to Jacob (Israel), to his sons (of the 12 tribes), including those who have been lost to Paul’s day. For last anyone could recall, we do not see any mention of Ishmael being given the Promise, however, God did not leave him hanging when he took up a part of the Wilderness, The Desert of Paran and was a hunter. Prophet Isaiah and The Psalmist prophesied of a barren woman whose reproach and shame are to be forgotten, for she will bring forth many sons, all of them taught by God as seen in Psalms 113:9 and Isaiah 54:1, of which you had mention, with the addition of verses 2 to 15. The Apostle Paul applies Prophet Isaiah’s words to the free woman, The Jerusalem Above as seen in Galatians 4:26-31, for such one is bounded by no one. Also this is not much, minor information, but Ishmael had 12 sons of his own, all of which of whom points to today’s Arab people. On the contrary, this does line up with the 144,000 chosen ones, mainly when you take into account that the New Covenant of which the early Christians were bounded to immediately after Jesus’ death was in effect and what we read regarding Pentecost that took place in the city of which the disciples were told to remain in. Of what you have said could be agreed with, however, before the New Covenant itself, no person of any kind were of the firstfruits within the Jerusalem Above, that is, if we take into account Paul’s example of what he has written to the Galatians, when we know the choosing had already begun in his day, granted Paul’s determination to sail to Ephesus, of which is spoken of in the Bible. There numbers were indeed great, yes, but as we can see no Covenant came that would replace the Law Covenant entirely, only after Jesus, who is the mediator of the New Covenant, came along, having been subjected to death, purchasing us, and later resurrected, and has ascended. Since we know Jesus Christ as the very first of the firstfruits, eventually those who are of this fold will be among this fold, as said before. Jesus being the firstborn out of death and having been resurrected, returning to God, and it is said in the bible that those who belong to him during his presence, for these people, chosen were brought up from among the people and are among the firstfruits, both to God and to Jesus. So in regards to Pentecost, those receiving the Promise that comes from the Father, everyone present, men and women, including the disciples, having been given the Holy Spirit are the very ones to become the firstfruits or the heirs as Paul mentioned to the Galatians in chapter 3, and Jesus himself is already said to be the first among them. Afterwards they began to prophesied publicly, as in preach the gospel of the coming Messianic Age and the gospel of the good news regarding the Kingdom. New Jerusalem (Zion), otherwise known as Heavenly Jerusalem, also referred to as The [New] Holy City or The Bride [of The Lamb]. New Jerusalem is also referred to as The 3rd Temple of which having unknown measurements as seen in the Book of Ezekiel, or in this case, Ezekiel’s vision. Although not a literal woman, the Bible speaks of her and her church, her people, that is, those among the Priesthood who will reside with The Lamb and rule as Priestly Kings and Judges, as well as sing a Song that is unknown to use of which they can only sing. They will also bear the name of God and the Lamb on their foreheads, for as we can see of John’s expression, he had seen them with Jesus, all 144,000 of them standing on Mount Zion. Yes, this Holy City will come down on earth, although it is spoken of as spiritual and not physical, and will be an established centralized government of which God will put in place, with God’s chosen King, to be Jesus who is accompanied by those of Priesthood who will appear as some say in Spirit form, like that of an angel or that of the Christ himself. Not everyone can reside in this temple despite being under those of the Holy City, for only those chosen for Priesthood will remain while others will at most remain on earth, hence Eternal Life being given to the people who survived/saved and or having been resurrected. Revelations 21, specifically verses 9 to 27 speak of the city’s description in detail, from its very gates to its geometry, in addition to the sacredness and holiness of such in full description. It is not about looking to see if 144,000 are there or not, it is about application of context and references. That being said, those of Priesthood are in connection with The Bride and we see of her riddled throughout Revelations, and the very context and references are there, for such who is of this Bride consist of men and women since the days of Pentecost up until now and it is unknown as to how many are left, who is chosen and who is not, for the choosing of such ones is of invitation from God himself, and like any invitation, it can be revoked. One would say that, but you have to consider those 2 groups of the smaller flock and those of the crowd of people who will inherit Eternal Life, all of which subject themselves to one Shepherd, that is, Christ Jesus. Other than that, I spoke of the Spiritual House extensively before here, of which is also in connection for the Spiritual House’ foundation is the mediator of the New Covenant himself, Lord Jesus Christ, both those of Priesthood and those to have Eternal Life are of this House, and part of the very foundation they are in union with, the Christ. This is indeed true; those of Earthly Jerusalem, the ones not free and or in bondage, were indeed in great numbers, we also cannot forget that they, among them are the same ones to have rejected the Messiah, but not those of Heavenly Jerusalem, the chosen ones and as well as those to inherit Eternal Life, believed Jesus. Granted Apostle Paul was using symbolism regarding Hagar and Sarah and he knew very well of what was to happen and what took place during Pentecost, granted he was determined make it to Jerusalem on the day of The Festival of Pentecost. Other than that if you are in agreement with the 3,000 men and women out of the number that is being discussed and those who are with Jesus among the firstfruits, why do you assume otherwise and on your take if those giving the Holy Spirit were not of the destined since the New Covenant is in effect then who is? There is but a selected few of whom John had seen with his own eyes by means of a vision. Other than that, a lot of people believe in actual chosen ones, however, it has become a thing of a sole race and or people are chosen only after the End Times and such ones preach that what took place in Pentecost was not where it started, however, they are incorrect. Also this is off the charts and a tad bit random, green isn't your color anymore?

No worries. It is just that I see things for what they really are, mainly when at times growing up you witness and hear things, you begin to learn and grow and understand and connect the dots from there. There is a lot I know of which I rarely speak of here so I tend to keep it to a limit, mainly on topics that is of an extreme level, unless it is of the bible of course. Not all men are bad, as I have said many times around here, there is the good and there is the bad, those of the bad will do things with ill intent, and they do this on the daily and even to good people, at times oppress them. Some of these people play the system in order to do these bad things. The sad reality is what I speak of is indeed true, for that is within the realm of corruption around the world and mainly the US. The system is corrupted in a way that is allows for double standards and it allows for people to get hurt when they are not suppose to begin with, get the help they need or else such things like their water supply will cause injury to them because corrupt people didn't do anything to stop the water from spoiling and a list of other things. Weapons are bought by people who do not have records and they end up doing bad things as what can be seen in our history already. At the same time there is a war going on with the NRA in this regard and clearly both sides in this fight is at fault. Which also allows why there are those in the shadow government that want to alter the 1st and 2nd amendment. Like I said, I have no care for politics, but things of this nature can cause the chaos to crank up to 11 and result in very bad things to come. That being said, it is the same case with these church arson, damaging churches even using assault rifles on to an empty church out of hatred and or sending a message, such things will cause concern, fear and people to question, mainly in a community and or in this case, communities that never seen anything like this and it never stops at one, or two, or three, or four, for such things will continue until a time comes where it will cease. As for this particular case, the is no telling what a man cornered in the dark will do, but as I see it, it is clearly out of hatred here, until then the investigation has to be done so we have more information, as is the case with the other similar incidents. I simply type too fast for my own good, perhaps a bit too fast. Normally I do not make long post as such but I grew into them after that one thread a while back regarding religious church fathers, granted I defend church history and the bible's history I become way too overly detailed, I believe this is in a thread where you and I believe tom was talking about unicorns in the bible. I guess I would say the one who was trying to twist the information of the church's history and actual belief resulted in somewhat long lecturous posts. I try to reduce the amount at times, but there is always someone who has a response to a claim, and such claims needs to be fact checked and corrected, for the last time I was extremely brief in information, the someone tried to twist passages regarding Bereans and the holy spirit, at that rate, things must be said and information must be shown. But other than that, it takes me 4-5 minutes or less depending on what is being discussed in a response and or claim, exegesis, etc. of which I have read, at times a few typos, for since I am from CSE forums, everything that one has to say must have information backing it up or else it would be problematic. For as you can see, this is the community I have come from, and even these people are like me and have a lot to say at times. People are serious, perhaps far more serious beyond me because I was like a small ant to them in the past, but now I am similar to them in some way.

I was being very brief, but yes, in the EU, mainly the UK, hate crimes have been on an all time high and it is mostly directed by people of a specific race and or religious belief, other situations it is of a radicalized person killing anyone in his or her path. Hate Crimes are usually carried out by both acid and knife attacks, for knife attacks end up causing the great injury and or death. Granted with the up in religious violence nowadays, pretty much anyone can and will be a target. Yes, this might be the case, but we have to take into account of how much hate you guys get also, and despite such action of what this person, as with the others, are doing, such ones against you will pin the blame on you without having all the facts together and should something bad do happen, they will point the finger easily, as is of what has taken place in some situations already; several arson, a church of yours riddled with assault rifle fire, etc. All in all, influence is also a factor, and such influence can drive people to do things be it physically and or verbally, from minor to major, being of the cause in question they are against and or for something. Granted on the actions of the arsonist, and others, already it is clear such ones hatred, and is fully aware of what they are doing, and what we see on the other side of the spectrum are those mocking and attacking such ones like yourself and making the claim that you people deserve what is coming, and of course comments like this will only result in those who will come forth clearly against the man's actions and what is being said by those who see you as an opponent, as is the gassing with the political gassing some months ago. No need for psychiatry. The actions and ill intent of such ones is obvious, for if people like that are all knowing about their own actions of causing that much damage on to one church and the next, it is already seen, even by some, as hatred and disgust for the church and it's people, of which as already put that small community on the edge as it is, and this is but one of several attacks already. There is a lot of hate speech about religion in the UK, even towards you, after the death of one jw inside the church he was in, it was ruled out as a hate crime, which resulted in the PM talking about hate crimes and censoring media due to influence that comes from such things. This was done but was only minimized slightly, thus people are still on the edge and are vigilant, such had taken place as of last year, and since then, the hate crimes just spiked towards those of religious background and or a specific race, mainly with the whole immigration thing that is another factor in the EU. I guess when more comes form the investigation we will see, for if this person was able to get this far and what he has done, one can say it is out of hatred and such put such a person into this course to enact such. That being said, we can say this, yes, but even a trapped man will go forth with actions that is deemed crazy and wrong by others. I am talking about anti-jws, these guys hate both jws and exjws. I would consider them more of a wild card for they are not a fan of anything to do with God and or the Bible whatsoever. Despite this, towards jws and exjws, it is either extreme hatred and constant mocking of them and brutal attacking and insult, of which can be seen on another thread similar to here but in full force, on the other side of the spectrum, they want nothing to do with both groups, but will often speak their peace in terms of using logic and fact checking anyone who speaks ill. These guys adhere to and carefully listen to famous atheists, for instance, Hemant Mehta (The Amazing Atheist) being the go to guy and the only person they tend to get their information from, at the same time others have gone to people like him in order to get information to use against a group and or a person they dislike. But yes, as for exjws, not all of them are bad, in fact, some of them defend jws and fact check those who speak badly, and end up being the very ones to be attacked. Yes, but you'd be surprised, the more angry ones wish to see a faith burn down to the ground, some of them even attempt to get the current President to help them do it, granted Trump is an avid Twitter poster, as they have done several times last year. In the end though, the biggest concern here is safety, do what you can and be vigilant and aware, for such ones are quite angry and there is no telling what a concerned man in the dark will do. So it is very goo to see that community in that town actually stepping up to find this guy, as is the other affected areas. But I was right about what I say bounty hunters, you may not know this but whenever money is involved, there are people who try to look for such persons themselves, for that is what they see, any information and or tip, etc that will enable them to be a step closer to the reward they want and the US has a lot of bounty hunters, even among the police force.

I know I do not. But with the rate of gang stalking and religious hate rimes on the rise, this seems to be the case. The thing is here along with the arson, jw churches have been shot up by a specific firearm, that being, an assault rifle, of which is in connection with the church arson and said to have been done by the same person, such a person clearly has no bad history and or record and still conceals himself, for with no record and a license to carry, it makes such a person very elusive and hard to track and or find, which seems to be the case. Guns store owners will sell guns to anyone anytime, mainly if the record is clean, granted the culprit manage to get by this easy by damaging the churches via fire and on other occasion bullets, thankfully no one inside, it speaks in volumes. I do not have experience in firearms, but I know to some extend the law of the land in regards of guns and those who carry them, those against them, at the same time having a corral with the state and government I tend to speak on this to point of what is actually true and there is no question that such things are connected: https://www.kiro7.com/news/south-sound-news/shots-fired-into-kingdom-hall-of-jehovahs-witnesses/750155526 It is easy to catch a man who has some sort of record and or history, it is far more difficult to find a man who has a clean record, and any man with ill intent can easily get their hands on such things, of which was indeed true, granted you can only acquire such things from an actual Gun Store. In a small town like that, it is unlikely criminals would be selling guns on the street, mainly if you take into account the area's history, if anything, such is possible in areas in the Southern parts of the US. But what is said is very much true in regards to those who upheld the 2nd amendment in order to get their hands on a weapon and use said weapon for ill intent (hence the whole situation with government and the NRA several months ago), be it for something minor as sending a message and or something major. Should this man end up being exposed and caught, it is without question we will see the history and we will see of where he bought the gun in the first place, again, a small area like that, you wouldn't catch criminals who sell illegal weapons in such a place compared to other areas,mainly when criminal activity is on a high percentage on a daily.

It is a number of individuals chosen, yes. This number is mentioned 3 times in Revelations and everywhere of where it is mentioned, is a direct references to those chosen to co-rule within the Messianic Kingdom. When the New Covenant came into effect, you already have those of Pentecost, which included the Disciples of Jesus, and Judas' replacement, Matthias, which totals up to 3,000, and from there more of the firstfruits are chosen up to present day and onward. And the opposite of such would be?

Most likely a purchased firearm. Gun Store Owner will only raise a brow if you have a crazy history, but a Mr. Clean record allows you to pick any gun from the candy shop, as long as your license to carry is clean or if you speak highly 2nd amendment, the owner will give you a high five and allow you to buy. Things can get bad to worse and set to easy mode for the US.

It may as well be the case for it is stated by former exjws known as anti-jws, having both jws and exjws (pretty much atheists) that a stabbing of a jw in the UK somewhere was a hate crime by means of influence, and this was even stated by the UK gov't, of all people, Theresa May, who is aware of religious hate crime due to influence, granted the hate spreading of muslims in the UK, it is done to jws too. Sooner or later it will lead to injury and or death. It is one thing to agree/disagree with a faith, but to take it this step far, it insane. On the other side of the spectrum, there are bounty hunters who are only wanting to find this arson because they want a payout so at this point pressure to the culprit will be going from green to red. But that being said, Religious Violence has been on the rise lately compared to the Christian vs. Satanist ordeal that took place about a yea or two ago.

This view predates the JWs and it is believed by those who know of what it entails, mainly in regards to such ones who studied the bible and the church extensively. Although some have a different view of the chosen ones, some even suggest it is only a race and or a nation of people (especially when I had to deal with those who say I am from the tribe(s) of Simeon/Levi/Benjamin of which they have no proof of) when the reality is it is a collection of persons who are chosen by God and or those destined for such a service. It is believed and is true that only a few of these people are left and some will be alive until the End Times conclusion and eventually into the days of Great Tribulations. Other than that, I actually had some information in detail somewhere, regarding these tribes and what happen to the tribe of Dan, if I do find it I most likely would post it on bible discussion though. Those chosen are of the Priesthood, to co-rule as kings and or judges. The other is those, the heirs, being given eternal life. Both of them are of the Spiritual House and make up the House. Both of them are of the New Covenant, both of them are of the Seed, only one of them, those of Priesthood,is of the Bride, is of the Firstfruits for we know Jesus is the first and eventually we see 3,000 others and onward of this fold. Probably because when I checked the guy, Grey Reformer, joined the other day, to be exact Tuesday at 12:50pm on August 7, 2018. I think, or as of what I had seen, think has already made another name for himself weeks ago, but I cannot be too sure.

As I recall, which was recent, of what was said when I defended Abraham and what the Promise of that God had made to him. Apostle Paul spoke of this the very reason such is in direct references to being One in Christ what it implies and why Abraham, who was not killed for what he did and he kept alive, even his wife, as I said before, was seen as a hero, for she complied with her husband of whom she called lord in order for God's Promise to continue into the days of David well into the days of both Joseph and Mary and what come to have the Prophet, Jesus, of whom is of that Seed along with the heirs, Those One in Christ. I never asked you to be a fan of me, for of such I do not care, I simply care for the Bible, the History and anything pertaining to such as well as God's Law, and I care for those who are oppressed and or other as well as those of my own people who do suffer. Other than that, I simply corrected you on Abraham and you responded by saying something as if what he had done was a selfish act when it was his reasoning and his knowledge of the land that caused him to be in such a position to begin with, and this is not the first time, and now when we have a verse of which you quoted that speaks in direct references to the Promised Seed in attempt to use salvation vs. what Bible spoke on about the church, is obscene nor have you really poured the actual context itself, but at least you make the effort in knowing what One in Christ means but fail to see that it is direct in what is spoken of Salvation for both men and women, no talk about religious leadership in anything he has said in that passage alone. You also didn't show much kindness to the truth about Adam and Eve, even when corrected in that domain also. And please, if you really cared about Abraham, what you said many times before would not have been in an attempt to be against him, now that, is being hypocritical. With that of which amounts here, even when it comes to the church itself, you are as you always have been and choose to be. Therefore, what Jesus has entrusted, cannot be changed. He is the Firstborn out of the dead, The Firstfruits of the New Creation, the Cornerstone of the church of which he is the foundation of, he is the head of the church and has given he ability to the church to bind and loosen, for the people make up the church and under him they abide by this and they abide by not only his command, but in total religious servitude in God is Father of whom such ones give praise and service to. The truth and nothing but the truth, and always the truth that comes from the Bible and the History of the early church in Christendom and nothing but this truth. At least such is accurate, in this sense rather that fabrications like hydro or that of thinking a registry is an indication owning something when it is pretty much nothing more than a institution census. That being said, I have told you, just as I have told Witness, go do the research of the History of the Church, and learn it, mainly in God's view, what Jesus entrusted and what Apostle Paul had said, for he spoke of creation for a reason regards to how the church has been structured as well as the family. Speaking the truth is not entitlement nor is a privilege. There are many people around the world, even those of whom I met, those sick, those poor, those lost, who make the effort to actually read and understand their Bible, for as I had said to you before, better to be close to and or have the truth rather than be far from it. If you do not even know the history of the church, let alone the history of the Bible, how can you speak to such persons? How can you refute the accursed? And the list goes on. That being said, you have and always have come upon as a cryptic individual, mysterious at times, but at the same time even when corrected, you still dwell on feelings and opinions rather than what the Bible says itself, and when something has been pointed out as a lie it vanishes and should it be brought up for such of what you profess ends up being false and or untrue, other times a showy nature of not understanding something and thinking differently of what is written, even outside of the bible somethings mention by you is seen as unfounded, and well, we know how that turned out and in some situation you continue to egg on this and show some flaws in some responses, and you tend to contradict yourself at times, which is evident. But it seems even when someone speaks the truth, for you, and majority of others, it goes into one ear and leaves out the other. That being said, clearly you have not read the brief detail of what was stated in page 2, therefore, it shows that someone people are either ignorant or unaware of the history of the church in ancient Bible times and such ones will try and attempt to use Salvation passages (of which had seen and refuted nearly 2 decades now) to make claim to something that is unrelated. To make it brief so you better understand: The structured is, and has been and forever will be as it were. Adam was created first, Eve came later on and is second, therefore we have the first man and woman. The family had always been Structured as man, woman, child, which in turn when the churches were a thing in biblical times, the church, physically, had all persons, young and old, but because the head of the Christ is God for he had made Adam and Eve, and that the Christ is the head of the church, we see what Paul had stressed in regards of said structured in terms of leadership in the church under the Christ. From religious leaders of authority, to servants, ministers and teachers, to members and converts and we see Paul even speaking of men of authority and to which position such ones take in the church. Even though women cannot and will not be religious leaders, their role in the church is not significant, for it still impacts the church because the church is the people and that community of people build themselves up. They help in the ministry, they teach, they question and answer, they pray and a list of other things, women were included in the day of Pentecost as well for they too take part in the gospel preaching and converting people for baptism in the church and such ones uphold God's Law with total seriousness, hence why the head covering is very important. Both men of any age, sex or race are ALL under and in union with Christ because Salvation is not for one person or a nation, it is for all, hence the New Covenant, for we know because of Abraham, Jesus came to be for he was of this promise, and his heirs, those selected for Priesthood that is neither male or female and until he returns, His church of which He has built will remain intact by those who hold true to Scripture and not try to change it in any way shape or form for any many who speaks differently and or teaches and practices something else that, let him be accursed. Know this, real Christian men and women know this, and if we want to those some more logs into the blaze, Jews know this, Muslims know this, Agnostics know this and a list of other people, whoa re we to change what God has set up in terms of his purpose and will? The answer should be, no one is to do such a thing.

I wouldn't say housemaid for Prophetess were not such ones to clean homes of other people, rather, some of them were deemed ones in maidenhood, meaning who had not have had any sexual relations with a man and or virgins, but some are not. Some examples would be Prophet Isaiah's wife, although unnamed, her she was a Prophetess, for this was professed by Isaiah. She and her husband had children together. Next we have Anna, the one who met with Joseph and Mary. She is The daughter of Penuel, of the Tribe of Asher, and she was married until she became a widow when her husband had passed. We also have evil ones who are for brazen conduct who originate, we can take example of what is said of Ba'laam and Jezebel and how those replicate them, in this case, how such ones replicate Jezebel, which seems to be the case with one church mention in the Bible. Other than that, everything spoken of is indeed true, but it would seem people nowadays do not like History, or that of even social studies when it comes to things of old, History of the Church 101 was clearly an elective that was no selected this semester for such ones and therefore, their knowledge in this domain is lacking.

@Srecko Sostar Comparing of what you had told Gone Away in regards to your former affilation with the faith, can you be more specific of the year at least in estimate? Is the son is now 70 years of age (2018), that means he was born around the late 1940s, so counting back from 2018, it would be the year 1948, around the time of World War II, also around the same year several of this events were taking place as listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_in_the_United_States So who passed away first, the husband or the wife? For if she had a husband, perhaps the husband was the first to go before she did. As far as I know, JWs, who are still fresh Bible Students has and always have been this way since the Great Awakening compared to mainstream Christendom, as far as I see it, of the Priesthood or not, we do not see this woman, Zorica in this narrative, a religious leader, let alone the one leading the church. She can speak, she can teach and make disciples, she can minister, she can question and answer, but we do not see her as a religious leader whatsoever. Women can make comment to a sermon in the church, they cannot give a sermon to the church, so therefore anything of the like, does not add truth to your claim of authority, simply an role in play by means of this person of the church she resided in. It is not an adoption of "spirit of gentleness and silence" as you claim (once again you've proven to not even read for context), for if that was the case, why would she be doing the things she is doing? In fact, why would those in the 1st century, women, do what they were doing? The remark of silence, as addressed by Apostle Paul, was in seriousness to those who followed Artemis, and resided in the area for the Temple of Artemis was in the same area Paul was at the time, and women of Artemis were usually the ones to show up at the church and such ones remain silent. She spoke yes, but where is it she held an office of authority in religious leadership of the church? I say this time and time again and every time you and Witness will come up with something else to say, even going as far as to go the route of comparing church/family scripture with that of verses that speak on Salvation, for last I check Salvation has nothing to do with religious leadership yet the both of you bring up such verses, and in your case, you are not a fan of Abraham due to what can be seen in our last discussion, of which I addressed the One in Christ passage to you and your response is vastly different on what you are and or attempting to convey here, again, this is coming from a guy who has told me God is not the type of person to care should one change their gender. And what of her son? You were just talking about the woman, a destined one who clearly never ran and or lead the church in that faith, in fact, you never see any women of the faith lead a church, but a fail-safe situation is as it ever was for all try to abide by what the church actually is, as did our church fathers, as is Apostle Paul. I leave you with this, for a woman who is anointed, also what year she became chosen, how long she has been in the faith and when did she die, granted her son was born around the late 1940s since you said he is now 70 years of age or is this another one of your mind games as you have done with the sse hydro venue, of which you swept under the rug when corrected? Surely if this woman was of high importance in your former faith, as you stated to Gone Away, you would have shared this information, and since it is the 1940s, this information would have been easily brought up, granted of how religious folks were back then, before and after World War II.  As I said, despite not having a religious leadership of authority, women could teach and minister outside, as well as outside of the church for they are and can be ministers, as seen with the example of Apollos, they are teachers of what is good and their efforts help out the church as seen in Titus 2:3-5, as stated before, 3 times. The woman was not to exercise authority over a man of authority in the church for she does not and cannot lead the church.  I suggest you read what is said and go learn the history of the church, as I told Witness, there was a reason why Apostle Paul spoke of Creation itself when referring to the church.  And next time, as said to Witness, do not try to mix passages together and expect to me in the right, but it is kind of a low blow to equal of what is said with Salvation of being One in Christ. granted I was critical of this with you before, and of Abraham's Seed. Give Galatians 3:29 a read to ring some bells. Â

@James Thomas Rook Jr. Anytime. For me I learn to be very cautious. That Yvette woman I saw her in person once surrounded by her people, for people like her attack first and claim you are a Nazi, hopefully she is still in jail but rumors of her being out is being talked about, but there are others who take her examples and many who would go crazy, and it won't end anytime soon. My only hope it that it does not lead to another death as it did in Virginia an the very fact the United Nations attempt to deal with the first amendment because of it. Although I am not a fan of politicians, if the UN did do something to the 1st amendment that would prove devastating to a lot of people and cause an uproar, as it nearly did back in the Charlottesville incident in Virginia. But yeah, I guess because of your comment now I would have to go do the research and find the deeper truth of this matter.Better to know that be unaware and be caught off guard. To quote the words of a good person I know who still to this day is effect by the whole 9/11 event: Safety and security is that of like placebo effect, for even in your own home, you are not safe.

Granted that I have to keep going back and forth all the time I do not have much time to make corrections, copying and pasting as I go and I spoke of the verse from memory, so clearly I am not trying to prove anything by means of punctuation and pronunciation, simply stating what the passage says from memory , and if you want to play that card, you had shown before a total disrespect in confusing Heavenly Jerusalem with Earthly Jerusalem, for confusing the two, by some is seen as a violation. I am not belittling and or putting women in a bad light, I am simply stating what is true by means of the church and what the bible says and it would seem even the truth you are against, especially as to what Paul says. That being said, men and women have roles in the church and only one of them have religious leadership in the church, under the Christ. It is not a matter of favoritism, it is not a matter of who is better than who, it is a matter of how and what the structure of things are within the church and only the church and what such derives from, hence the mention of Adam and Eve. Wanting to accuse now? I can tell you this so you know exactly of how I view my fellow men and fellow women, the very culture which my people I abide by would literally scatter your perception, for we do not do things like you in the west do for we are not of such a life, for us it is family, peace, truth and all that is good for what is good, headstrong in safeguarding our people, even in the face of danger and disaster, even when the US president disgraces us, it does not hinder us because we do not take the side of such a man or anyone who is of that fold, and most importantly, we have a total high regard and care God and his Word and read it constantly, all of such has been taught by the time we could walk, in my case, it was taken a step further, learning a Languages, history, Christology and a list of other things and so forth, so I suggest you not make an attempt to cash check you know you cannot cash in this regard because the way I see it, you do not really take into account fully of what the Bible says, what God's Word says, the very reason you are being informed in what the church and family is and what it is based on, according to Apostle Paul. Anyone man or woman who dishonors another among my people's culture is seen as a disgraced one, as it is said in my language, Personne disgraciée. For what we see here no one is disgracing women here, what is simply being said is a biblical truth and nothing but that truth as well as correcting what your current view is which is clearly of mainstream Christendom, and it is evident that you never dwell outside anything in regards of the history of either the Bible or the church and this has been seen. It is also clear that I will never, ever break and tweak the Bible for the sake of Traditions of men of which mainstream Christendom professes (mainly as to what is spoken of in this topic in an attempt to make changes to what is said), so if you want to make such a bold claim, I allow you try, it will not help you, nor will it help Sostar because apparently you guys have no idea of anything to say about the church, granted of how the both of you already view the Great Commission. But I can already see such shifting to those of the Priesthood when we are talking about those of the church who has the abilities to bind and loosen, such ones of authority under the head of the Church, the Christ. Granted I am capable of reading and speaking as well as understanding words and expressions in both Greek and Hebrew, it is not unknown to me. In the manuscript and Greek Strong's that is a 435. QUOTE: with a reference to sex, and so to distinguish a man from a woman; either a. as a male: Acts 8:12; Acts 17:12; 1 Timothy 2:12; or b. as a husband: Matthew 1:16; Mark 10:2; John 4:16; Romans 7:2; 1 Corinthians 7:2; Galatians 4:27; 1 Timothy 3:2, 12; Titus 1:6, etc.; a betrothed or future husband: Matthew 1:19; Revelation 21:2, etc. Outline: So it would be better to tell me something I do not know rather than attempting to and or thinking I do not know what is already known, so that will not do you as much. so let me tell you something you may not know about this word, it has an occurrence totaling up to 216 with it appearing inasmuch as around occurs 193 verses in the Greek New Testament alone. According to the scripture, it does not say, so do not add to the text as is the very reason I brought up Deuteronomy 4:2. But I see what you are doing with the verses, you are attempting to mix the structure of the family and the church with that of being one in Christ - Salvation (the common game that mainstreamers like to play when they want to put opinion and feeling into a believe that is never professed); as you can see, there is no time for games, only the Bible, in my case play little, read more. That being said, as already mention, it speaks of those who are able to have salvation, this is not the first time someone has attempt this, for I have ran into people of the mainstream who tried this for over 8 years now because they attempt to add traditions of men and political based ideas and opinions by means of feeling into the church so that women can hold some office of authority. Also looking that up only points back to you and nowhere else, for that claim is unheard. You were right to speak on maidservants and Prophetesses, but you show yourself to be completely blind on the church structure itself, even when taught by someone who has studied the church itself for a long, long time, you, still remain think otherwise of what the Bible says and clearly you expect people to not see that, well you are mistaken, as if every time I spoke of the church it should have been known to you by now of someone who is and willing to speak this historic truth of a structure based on that of God's view in terms of creation, after all, it was addressed by Paul (for I had mentioned the verse strongly on page 2), not you or Sostar even dwell upon what is said by Paul in his other writings, mainly that of First Timothy and Romans, let alone application of context. But it would seem the both of you like mixing that of Salvation, being on in Christ with how the church's hierarchy layout, addressed by Paul even, is, for there is a reason as to why Paul said what he said about our first human parents, what can be said is he was not dwelling on culture, but rather, creation and how he equaled that to that of the church and family, for it is in direct connection with God's view and what Jesus entrusted the church to do. The mixing of Pentecost into the mix was as well a total failure in this sense let alone referring to someone who was not called and or mention to be a Prophetess. This just shows you lack knowledge of the church and in defense of what you cannot even defend. Men who hold a religious leadership in the church, as seen in biblical accounts are in a position of authority to everyone of that church, a good example is when Apostle Paul had to deal with those who were followers of Artemis and how critical he was in this regard. Paul even speaks of position and roles of men in the church and it is clear here he is referring to men of which can hold some sort of religious office and authority in the church, and clearly the early brothers of the church, some were married and some were not. Women on the other hand, of that church, as others who are not in a position of authority listen to those who are in the lead, but they too help the church by means of ministry and teaching, but never have any woman in the Greek New Testament is spoke of and or seen to hold a religious leadership, for we only see this position held by men, granted with what is said by Paul in scripture. And now we see here, by this response, you didn't do yourself a favor to even study and or look this up, and yet we see you dwell upon your own opinions and feelings in order to not adhere to what even the Bible says, or perhaps you are among those in the mainstream who is in total opposition of Apostle Paul, for those I have dealt with too in the past, even in person? You can speak on the modern day faiths all you want, but the focus here is what the Bible says of the early church, for I see here of what you are already attempting to do for the resolve, it is not going to help you for even people today, even women will speak of the church as I have because they know the biblical evidence and history, some even know The Didache by heart, for these women are true women of the church, women of Christ because compared to you they do not try to twist in their own reasoning to justify something that totally different. This is why I invite you to actually read up on the history rather than dwell on your own feelings, perhaps send question to the one you adhere to, the one you follow and maybe you will find an answer in regards to the church, but most likely even the view of this person shows. That being said, the church, as said before, cannot change, nor can it be tweaked, abandon and or molded into something else. It has been in place for a very long time an the early Church, since one of you mentioned Matthew 16, was always and will forever be what it is, and those who adhere to it are in the right vs. the mainstream who makes ANYONE a pastor nowadays when the bible makes it clear. As for lies and true, what is true is what has always been said, and I agree with Paul on every regard, especially as to his example of using creation, that of Adam and Eve in references to the church, to avoid this truth only proves one to be in the wrong here. There is no other Jesus also, there is only one Jesus. For this one, the Christ, is the Son of God, he came from God and has returned to him, only soon to return again. So what would be the point to bring up Matthew 16 when clearly there is a direct references to what Jesus had entrusted the church with? To say otherwise is like gambling with an Agnostic at this point. Christ set an example for us and he is the head of the church, no one else but him is the stone that is the foundation of the church and that stone cannot be broken and or changed. Apostle Paul was right to what he said and will always be in the right no matter how some Christians now a days paint him as the villain. Religious leaders of authority are in charge of teaching, in the church, helping out, in the church, and other things such as offering question to what needs to be answered and a list of other things, most importantly, what they teach must be accurate to what the Bible says and by means of what is says that must be practiced, and I have already spoken about the role of women and it is silly to stress it time and time again only for such ones to make a defense that is indefensible followed by depleted sources. The irony here,a s mention before, even true Christian women who abide by what the scriptures say know exactly of which is being stressed about religious leadership, and they also know despite not being in a position of authority they are not left out for they too have roles to help the church even though they cannot lead in the church, for they to are for the Christ. And all members of the church have respect for one another and their neighbor, and obviously if anything is accursed, something will be said. And? From slaves of sin to slaves of God, those of righteousness (15-23). This is in regards to an Epistle to the Romans when Paul was addressing those who are gripped by Sin, but a path for them to become servants of God is possible by means of that very gift God gifts, that is, Lord Jesus Christ, and by means of this gift God gives, in turn, Eternal Life,hence that of which is spoken of by Paul and everyone in the churches afterwards, Salvation. Granted that Jesus gave the church the ability to bind and loosen, he had everything set in motion for a reason 2,000 years ago when the foundation was put in place. Once again, using a verse in order to compete with that of the structure of the church, of which Jesus' church operates, or that of what Paul had already professed regarding the church. For if those given who had been entrusted with what is suppose to be done to the church simply abandon it, what do you suppose the position they will be in with the head of the church himself? Clearly no one wants to be in that position. Tell me something I do not know, granted I stressed this verse over and over here mainly to the very person here who thinks Jesus is God. You should have put in bold Firstborn from the Dead, for that was spoken of in the church as well and is in connection with Jesus being of the first fruits, of the Spiritual House, etc. This is already known, but the focus, as said over and over and over again is the church structure, the very reason Apostle Paul was speaking in terms of not culture, but creation in regards to the church's structure and that of the family. I do not see the issue here of which you are trying to avoid. If you speak of Paul you say everything he has said, this includes the church, itself, if you want to talk and discussed about the Spiritual House, we can do that, but I recall I have corrected you on this also several times. If I believe women did nothing why would have I mention roles of women who actually can minister, can teach and the like, women having the gifts and so forth? But I guess it is what they say of people in the US at times, because one follows the bible seriously, they see things differently. The reality is women are just as valued as men, but never would a women, attempt to break the church structure, ever, as I said, there are women who would say the same thing as me, those who are not of mainstream Christendom and when I traveled I have met them an their families, so please, if you want to stress the idea that I would betray my own in our culture of respect, I allow you try, I won't also let you add on to the bible as you have already. Indeed, equal, but according to God's view, what is said of Jesus, and of Paul and Church Fathers, the roles of which both sides have within the church is as it will ever be, granted if you take what Paul stated in 1 Timothy seriously. Yes, I know of Mary and I stressed Pentecost as well as Acts 1 and 2 over a dozen times here, especially on Bible Discussion. But as you can see, your response of saying Mary is a Prophetess, when such is never mention of her to even be one, has been proven false. Therefore, do not add to the text, for in doing so, you only paint yourself to believe what is accursed within the mainstream Christendom, on second thought, never have I seen anyone say Mary is and or called a Prophetess, for if Modalist and Trinitarians wouldn't dare say such, that is how you know someone is clearly in the wrong, and you make such persons look like saints. Like I said, Mary and other women had roles in the church, they can minister, they can teach, it does not stop them from praying or following God's Law, for both men and women work together under Christ, all of which, under God and have the utmost respect for God's Purpose and Will and will not make the attempt to change it, be it the church, be it those of the Spiritual House, or those of Priesthood (for such ones claim only a certain race is of this group, which is false). You clearly do not see Mary as a Prophetess here, nor do you see her and or any woman leading a church in biblical times - they were members of the church, handmaids, servants, etc they help out, they minister and the like. Mary was indeed a good woman of faith and is highly respected, as I had told Sostar before, just like Sarah, Mary is seen as a Hero for she carried the burden on protecting, teaching and being their for Jesus as he grew up, she even taught Jesus the Law, and Jesus spoke of and taught of his human mother with a high regard, so if anyone were to say otherwise of her will be corrected. Granted with what took place after Pentecost and what the cross-references say , of which I had already made mention of in First Corinthians, as of what was quoted before: 1 Corinthians 12:8, 10 1 Corinthians 12:8, 10 - [8] For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, [10] to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. In short, for everything and all points to the spreading of the gospel, as well as the Messianic Age. They spoke of the Messianic Age and as they spoke of it, they taught and converted people, bringing them into the church, baptizing them and so forth and their students, now turned disciples, do the same thing that is to come, clearly you do not see them predicting events that will lead up to it, therefore, the Great Commission is in place, the gospel for what is written of what is to come, which includes the good news gospel as seen in the Four Evangelicalist accounts that record Jesus' ministry. Why would I limit God for speaking of His truth that come from the bible? Dare I speak in full blown out context it would not put you in a good light for what is already said is enough evidence of what we see by means of the church's history. I am not and will never limit God in any way shape or form so do not make the accusation before it will end up hurting you in the end. you already hurt yourself by comparing a Prophetess to a handmaid when we know clearly by means of the Strong's such are not even the same. Nowhere would I limit Jesus because I am and will always be in high amounts of defense in regards of who the Son of God is and will defend the Christ as I have done for nearly 2 decades, defend him from those who teach falsely of who he is and or make an attempt to speak of him being a God when Jesus is clearly the Son. Nor do I speak ill of the Holy Spirit, as some attempt to claim it is a person when it is not, I speak truth of the Holy Spirit because among other things, this one is number one on needing to be defended for people have such ill views and or doctrines in regard of the Holy Spirit that is of minor to major absurdity ever seen, mainly when it comes to dealing with those who have the most brazen view of the Spirit. Therefore, accurate knowledge of things is the only thing I care about, even if at times detail and strictness must come into play but in the end, it is important that such ones know the truth and nothing but the truth, it is also important for people to not dwell on false information, of a bible passage, verse, historic account, a faith, a teaching, a tradition, and things on the outside when it comes to correcting those who dwell on conspiracy, those who believe in aggressive behavior to find resolve, those who are wanting to make something seen as illegal, legal, and a list of other things, for I have been around a lot of stuff, technically as some would said, molded by fire, if you will. So if any deceit is spoken, it will be corrected, regardless of who said it and where it came from. I'd say a Caribbean proverb on this matter, but I will say it for a strong response later on. I invite you to read up on the early church because clearly you lack it and show you confuse that of the church hierarchy with salvation. For at least learn something rather than dwell on your own understanding because as of right now, historic accounts and biblical evidence stack up against you. You may not be a person who goes to church or whatever, but you be wise to not think otherwise of the early church and the early Christians on how they did things. For if you truly knew of the Holy Spirit and what took place in regards to Pentecost, you would not be ignoring the context and references of what the people did, including Mary. That being said, I guess I'd have to teach both you and Srecko Sostar in full detail of what is being stressed here, so expect here soon, you've only seen what was addressed in page 2 of which both of you really have to read upon and understand, perhaps what a Prophetess is, of which is also mentioned on page 2. Next time, do not confuse Salvation with that of the family and church structure, it is not a good move to make, granted when one knows what a verse and a passage speaks of in context, references, evidence and or other. But as always, a lot of people ignore references anyways, hence why it is brought up to correct such persons.

In short, I'd find you a video source that is somewhat PG, but that is hard to come by as things are brewing up, but some brief information and some key players will be mentioned and noted below, in the best way I can: Q is in regards to a collection of people and key players in this political threatre that is at play here. I have only spent brief time on this whole Q thing an I know Q has nothing to do with them, in fact, Q might rough them up if that were the case. Q is in connection with the ones who call themselves ANTIFA, as well as the whole feud with Leftist and The Right, it also has anything and everything to do with those among this such groups to side with Trump and a list of others such as White Supremacist, The Feminist, the Militia Groups, and a whole list of other things who all stem from a single root and will end up doing the exact same thing they did at Berkeley and in Virginia. For your sake wherever you see a punkster in all black with a black mask (turn around, walk really fast, perhaps flee elsewhere), do not stick around for if they flock in numbers, they will call you a fascist and or a Nazi, a pedophile, a trump supporter, a support of the Shadow government, a counter protester, someone from either side [left or right], etc. and will attempt to provoke you be it you say or do something or not and when they take surround you, it is too late. You even look at them funny and they will see that as a sign to attack, and they show no mercy til they see blood. These guys can't fight alone and never will fight alone that is why it is a hazard if they gang up on you. Granted these guys are not the best of fighters, do not stick around to find out because such ones carry weapons like bats, bars and other things to assault you. There is also more talk about Civil War again, and the whole ordeal with Alex Jones being banned and that angering people So technically small sparks of Proud Boys vs. ANTIFA around the US in some rallies, the same can be said elsewhere in the EU which includes a collection of other groups and people, which only come around when a protest is active, which results in protesters vs. counter-protesters and as always the mainstream media like CNN and others TWIST the information in order to be in full support of one side. It's literally a war on earthen soil, but not done by known enemies, it is being done by people who live in the states and or country of that nation. we see ANTIFA (Far Left) VS  The Proud Boys (Far Right)  VS TINY (Far Right)  VS White Supremacist Again, I have not dived deep into the whole Q business, so I am aware of the basic surface stuff. Usually I go more in-depth with research only if something has gone out of control and or needs to be fact checked.  The only person missing from the whole House Party is Yvette Felarca, for the last I have heard of her, be being very critical of this she-devil, crazed dragon lady, she was sent to jail and is a disgraced English and History teacher at the Martin Luther King Jr. Middle School, and is the leader of a foolish group of mischievous and violent goons known as By Any Means Necessary" otherwise known as BAMN. I think the rumors are true, she is out of jail, but I have yet to see her crawl out of the crevess of a cave she comes out of. Do not let her face fool you, she is crazed, wild and evil, so it is no question she will be another pawn of Q's table chess war games. Yvette's Nemesis is a homosexual guy by the name of Milo Yiannopoulos It is a mad house, technically.

Indeed. The heavens and the earth will be made anew. God will put in place the Messianic King that will be in the God's Kingdom, that will replace the Kingdoms of Man with it's own heavenly governmental hierarchy and alongside him will be those of whom are called the chosen ones, those who are of Heavenly Jerusalem, the Priesthood, that will rule alongside him. The people of the earth will not have to deal with the wicked and will not be and never be hinder by them, oppressed by them or harmed by them, and those on this earth, cleansed of wickedness, will have Eternal Life, for they as well as those among the Priesthood are of the New Covenant, The Spiritual House. We also know that when all things is said and done, when the last enemy has been dealt with, God's Purpose and Will will 100% be accomplished and the Eternal King, the Invisible Father himself will reign. I believe I have talked about something similar regarding the Spiritual House, before, one my responses to Witness, for this House that it's very foundation being the Christ consist of both groups, and consist what we know about the new heavens and the earth deemed the new creation. Edit: It would also seem that the New Guy, is taking a liking of you.

@James Thomas Rook Jr. At times the sad reality of all things is regardless of one's educational achievements and or accolades in order to get a job and or career position, the barrier still remains: the race, nationality and sex of the individual. They do not tell you, but deep down inside they do care about this stuff, mainly if the guy who does the hiring leaves it to someone of his inner circle, they will judge you before you can even put your foot in the door. Other than that, the core importance of having currency and a job is simple. To care for yourself, an or any among your household, as well as relatives. To put food on the table so you do not starve, to but clothing on your back so you do not bare your nakedness and dwell in the cold (also you have to wash your clothes or they will smell), to keep a roof over your head because those bills have to be paid, and a list of other things, perhaps buying that new air fresher to put around the home so it smells like roses. All in all, things of that nature, to use money wisely and spend it wisely for things of good intent, which makes us different from those who are lovers of money and that Ralph Lauren, Jordan's wearing, Side strutting neighbor that likes to brag that he has a 250k Lamborghini 2018 costs more than your house - next thing you know he goes broke and files for bankruptcy and has debt.

I know of what he is talking about, I know what being one in Christ implies, but we clearly do not see Paul addressing religious leadership for women by means of the head of the church. This is what you fail to see because both you and Witness are not that knowledgeable of the church. The irony here is what Paul said in verse 29, for we already know about how you view Abraham in his dealings with the ruler of Gerar and the Egyptian Pharaoh, to speak of this passage that is in connection with the Abrahamic Seed only makes you seem hypocritical of what has been talked about, to you, several times before, even recently. We are indeed One in Christ, and our union allows both him and God to dwell in us - should we accept. In Jesus' case, it means taking in and accepting of what he had entrusted the church to do, of which you were in opposition of for several months, if not more. So if you really adhere to this passage, this verse, mind you, you best take a good look at everything that came from you in the past up to now. That being said, none of which you stated in your attempt at an exegesis has no resolve to the main issue at hand regarding church leadership and authority of the church, and the funny thing is, you have not taken into account of whom these letters of Paul were present to, it should be obvious. And what point are you trying to make when there was no resolve to begin with, Srecko Sostar? You are trying to mesh 2 things together to create a Frankenstein here as is of what was stated by you above. One of the reason why it is what they say, people lack in the history of the church, of which is said by both men and women and what they say is indeed true, and were we see this from both you and Witness. The Church had already existed prior to that message being posed, in fact, the Epistles/Letters were sent to these Churches. Such has existed since God's Temples were still movable Tabernacles and the hierarchy has always remained the same. It is only later on centuries after, people began to and wanted to change the church, for they put into application that of what the world adheres to inside the church, therefore religious leadership and authority has been changed to include women when the Bible has never made the indication, as they say, it is as if they see it as God making Eve first and Adam second. Apostle Paul was not talking about a New Religious System, learn your history and understand the facts, nor would I diminish what is read to be called a new society, it is more respectful to say those of the Spiritual House. This Church had both the Jews and the Gentiles and both of them believed in the same truths and accepted it, therefore, they are one in Christ because they understand what the truth entails, and they knew what was to be done to profess the truth by means of spreading the gospel. There was no old system either because it has been as it ever was since creation of man. They never cut ties with old things, despite being of the New Covenant, as I last recall, the Jews and the Gentiles still profess Shema and other commandments. Actually they are aware, have you not read the the other portions of Paul's letters? Or are you simply picking and choosing at this point without foundation to claim? As I said, if the churches had already existed which is pretty much the predecessors of the Temples, how is it that they did not know? After all, you are aware of what a Temple is, judging by your other response elsewhere an there is no question you know what a Tabernacle is and or a Tent of Worship. Nothing has changed, Sostar, the Jews and the Gentiles are one in Christ and are part of the Church, they in turn being part of the Spiritual House, for they are the stones that make the house. I concur, the focus here is the church, although male and female are of the church, both being one in the Christ, it does not change how the church has always been structured from the very beginning, unless you choose to avoid and ignore what Paul had stated in regards of Adam and Eve as you have done with what he said of Abraham? Paul was inspired, but a lot of people seem to paint Paul as an enemy when they find out Paul does not agree with them. Paul was a good person and believed and followed the Christ, he knew of Jesus' God hence why he affirmed the ancient Law of the Jews to the Corinthians in full respects, in addition to alluding to the Law in his other letters, something of which those who claim Jesus to be God avoid saying because it breaks their doctrine. Other than that, the Church will always be the Church. What Jesus had entrusted will remain despite some seeing it as burdensome. The structure of leadership and authority will remain the same for if anyone takes into account what was build 2,000 years ago they would not be ignorant of the facts and the information as well as the amount of evidence that is spoke by those who read and understand their Bibles. That being said, both men and women have roles in the church, but only one gender has a position of leadership, regardless all persons are under the head of the church for they are in union with him. In terms of women not being in a position of leadership, hence why it speaks of silent women (ever bothered to check the references? No, you never have to begin with). Paul also shows us that he cares for women who do the works by means of teaching in the ministry as of which was presented in detail above. We clearly do not see anywhere Paul being okay and or making an indication to women leadership in the church, unless you are forgetting the madness at the Temple of Artemis, that is, of which some like to bring up to make a case. You have not put anything into context, this is also the same verse I mention to you that you were clearly not a fan of, so is this being hypocritical and or ignorant here? Also it is a surprise to me you would include verse 29, you were not the type to be a fan of Abraham last I checked. Other than that, your twisted exegesis in regards to how the church and the family was structured cannot change what is as hard as a diamond. It is no surprise Witness agrees with you here, the both of you need to learn, understand and educate yourselves on the history of the Church itself, learn of what the Bible says rather than yield upon your own understanding, other than that it is the Great Commission discussion over again but this time in regards to women and church leadership. Despite combined efforts by the both of you, none of you cannot change anything in regards to God's Purpose and Will, through Jesus, to the people of the Church, who in fact have both God and Jesus dwelling in them. That being said, unity is known, yes, but to twist what the has been entrusted, what has been built on to the foundation, only makes you exposed to be a person to adhere to the accursed, like I told you before, Srecko Sostar, our church fathers would be spinning in their graves, for what you, and even now, have stated is beyond baffling, therefore, I encourage you to learn, should you accept it, I encourage you to do the research, should you accept it. I even encourage you, if you are someone who travels, to go to those who read their Bible, perhaps speak to of such, and they will tell you, should you accept it. But know this, you do not accept what is in the Bible, mainly in regards to the church, you will be the one to make answer for attempt to change what is highly sacred and what the Christ had built and what he is in regards of the church.

It is relevant to the topic because one has to realize that a woman can be a minister in the preaching and teaching of the gospel, a woman can be a teacher, a woman can put into application the gifts of which has been given and a list of other things, but it is known and cannot be changed of the church's hierarchy, it's structure, for of God we have the Christ and the Christ is the head of the Church. The head of the Woman is the Man. The Head of the Christ is God The head of the Church is the Christ The head of the Man is the Christ The head of the woman is the Man A man is of God's glory and a woman is of Man's glory, for man comes from God and a woman comes from man, and as so the Scriptures go. Stuff like this is important because should you be in a position to explain this stuff you have to be very accurate, a small misstep will drive one to dwell on what is not spoken of in the Bible or not making something known in full will cause confusion and contradiction. Before you listed Mary as a Prophetess, if you are bringing forth information of her being a maidservant/slave girl, why refer to her as a Prophetess when the distinction between the two are not the same? For this is why the Strong's exist, this is why we have manuscripts. A Prophetess is a woman and or women who is able to prophesies or carries on action by means of their work and what they say for they are a prophetess (male counterparts simply called Prophet). A Prophetess speaks of prophecy, prophesying by means of inspiration, speaking of and or telling forth of messages from God for like angels, a Prophetess, as well as Prophets, are under Shaliah Principle (Also refereed to as Angelic Agency), they reveal the comes from God, of what his purpose and will entails. They are capable of predicting events that is to come. Even as there were both true and false prophets, so some prophetesses were used by Jehovah and were moved by his spirit while others were false prophetesses, disapproved by Him. In Mary's case, Mary was a handmaiden, which is also a maidservant and or slave/slave girl, she was not and is not a Prophetess, never was spoken to be one or called one as is the others, the same goes for any person who makes claim to Prophets when it has never been addressed, for even in Greek there is a distinction between these two and the very words itself. For Mary, the human mother of Jesus is referred also as the maidservant or handmaid of the Lord or servant of the Lord or slave girl, etc., such as which are titles of honour for she is the mother of Jesus, the mother of the Prophet who have been prophesied to come and that Prophet being the Son of God himself. In the Gospel of Luke it describes and mentions Mary as the maidservant/handmaid/slave girl when she gives her consent to the message of the Angel of whom God sent, Gabriel (Angel of YHWH) as seen in Luke 1:38, and when she proclaims how great the Lord is and because of the great things he has worked in her, as seen in Luke 1:49. We also know (well I am sure everyone here knows) that after the prophecies of Simeon and the Prophetess Anna seen in Luke 2:25-38 and it being concluded, Joseph and Mary took young Jesus and returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth, seen in Luke 2:39. For if Mary was indeed a Prophetess, the aid from these two would not have been needed to begin with while she and her husband, Joseph, was with baby Jesus at the Temple of God. Moreover, it is no surprise to anyone of why God had chosen Mary and Mary's actual history, as is the history of those of her household - her relatives. But nowhere in the scriptures it is seen hat Mary is spoken of as a Prophetess, for any talk about a Prophetess is explicit and attempting to mix a handmaid/maidservant/slave with a Prophetess will not do you any good, as for your verses, it would have been wise to check out the references also to even show you of what has been stated. As for Mary, she had always been God fearing, never in scripture we see her predict upcoming events, what she knows is what her people knows and what they lived by, this being of God's Laws and what God had said, for Mary was the type of young person to give praise to God constantly for she not only knows who the God of Israel is, but she gives praise every on occasion. She had knew the Law and she applied this and she taught the Law to her young, which was the way it was for the people. It would have been fairly easy and understandable if the Bible says she was a Prophetess and or makes claim to such, granted of how that role is for some women and the very fact it is mention a few times in the Greek New Testament, perhaps 2-3 times, but nowhere we see any occurrences of the Prophetess title in connection with Mary, so we should not be adding to the word (Deuteronomy 4:2). Know the difference, I recommend Bible Hub (I've only pulled up the Greek, for there is no need for the Hebrew at this moment): https://biblehub.com/topical/m/maidservant.htm https://biblehub.com/topical/m/maidenhood.htm https://biblehub.com/greek/1401.htm (bondband/handmaid/slave) https://biblehub.com/greek/4398.htm (Prophetess) https://biblehub.com/greek/1399.htm (female slave/maidservant/handmaid) First off, bear in mind the references for verse 17 (Joel 2:28) and references for verse 18 (1 Corinthians 12:8, 10). We must also bear in mind that Pentecost was a day that the helper came to the people after Jesus had ascended, this helper being the Holy Spirit that having been outpoured to the early Christians. The Bible shows us that Pentecost is given in the Acts 2 as well as including Peter's Sermon at Pentecost (14-41) that puts major importance to The Resurrection and Exaltation. In his sermon, Peter quotes Joel 2:28-32, as well as Psalms 16 to indicate that first Pentecost marks the start of an age, The Messianic Age, this age being a time where there will be a period of time when the Messiah will reign as King and bring peace to all, those among his co-ruling fold, persons destined for Priesthood and those who benefit from Eternal Life, for these persons are the stones, as for the wicked and evil, they will be nowhere to be found nor will hinder any man, woman or child, for all there will be is peace and tranquility among the people and all that is good - all of which is of God's purpose and will for mankind and will soon be accomplished by means of his chosen one. And what do we find out about those among Pentecost and what they did afterwards? The references for verse 18 speaks for itself. We also know that these persons went out of their way to teach, to make disciples of people and to baptize them and all of these persons, given the Holy Spirit did the works, and spoke by means of the Spirit, wisdom, and these persons speak of the Messianic Age. Furthermore, these people, who of the New Covenant, as discussed with you before, are part of the Spiritual House themselves, as said, they are the stones of that house. This includes, the disciples, all men and women in attendance, and anyone in connection with the Christ and listened, even Mary. We do not see any indication of Mary being called a Prophetess, a maidservant yes, but not a Prophet of any kind, granted when one is capable of understanding the difference. This is already known. What is not really mention by some is that God's glory is the man, and Man's glory is the woman. For a man came from God and man exist because of God, for a woman came from man and a woman exist because of a man (1 Corinthians 11:2-16). Indeed, the Spiritual House, those who make up the House are the Living Stones. For this we had talked about before, despite the corrections being made in your response. But was missed was what Jesus entrusted to the Church, something of which a majority of the mainstream Christians are against and or attempt to change because they deem what is entrusted to be too burdensome. Which seems to be the case with most. As is so, as well as it's direct connection to that of the church and the family structure itself, therefore, when it comes to religious authority, such a position is not in the woman's grasp, despite that position being for the men, woman can help out in the church itself even though they cannot be leaders. And yet Jesus entrusted the Church to bind and loosen, of which given to the Disciples and they to their students, who in turn not only become followers of the Christ, but Disciples themselves. Unless you have forgotten what has been said about the Spiritual House? Yes, we can speak of anointed women, but the focus here is leadership in the church itself and the structure itself and what God has set in motion and what the Christ, the head of the church entrusted to those in his inner circle. The belief has nothing to do with the Jehovah's Witnesses, in fact it predates even them, the belief is solely based on the early Church structure and the very indication of it that comes from he Bible. This is why I stated that even True Christian women will not agree with you on several points, and they themselves no leadership of authority in the church is not a role for them, nor any role that gives them authority over men. Yes, we do have one savior, but at the same time our savior gave instruction and entrusted various things to the people of the church which is still practiced into this very day by only some. This is the very reason why many people speak of the early church 2,000 years ago, as some would say and hold to a high importance of what it entails. No one is standing between the Christ, people are merely defend His church and what His church is structured, as if our history is ever so clear, but the mainstream think otherwise. In the end it has never been proven and or practiced, by Jesus' church that women are to be religious leaders of authority, therefore we shouldn't be in a position to alter such things.