Space Merchant

@James Thomas Rook Jr. But the problem is here is anything pertaining to God being hindered in some way, shape or form, Civil Disobedience of Spiritual Warfare is indeed in use. In some sense, it also is in regards to the whole Bible issue going on in Russia, which a bit of that has spelled over to some areas in the EU and Western US,but as we can, Civil Disobedience is at play in this domain also.

@Srecko Sostar And yet you do realize as to what caused the ban to begin with and what prompted such to take place, for if they were indeed in politics they would not have been suppressed months prior, granted if you are well aware of Alexander Dvorkin and everyone in connection to him. Letter writing isn't political just as people who come to defend a memorial area such as a cemetery from those who seek to change it. Now, you listed the following: As well as: Would it make more sense to address 3a first and then 5a? Indeed we are humans living on earth, all of us who roam the earth and those of us who use to, thus being buried in Sheol. As for point 3a, as the following reads: And as to what political affairs? Asking someone to not cease one's primary source of worship is not political, let alone religious rights. What is deemed political if if the faith was in affiliation with groups similar to the other churches in Russia, mainly the Non-Orthodoxy ones. For if we have to speak of this as a political issue then it can be said Apostle Paul's dealing with Artemis followers is seen as political or Christians to Niro, when the reality is, it is not. The only thing political that was taking place during the time of religious distress was in regards to the Anti-Corruption Heroes who are in direct and indirect confrontation with The Kremlin, as well as the RoC Church, due to a number of reasons, for more than 1,000 arrests have been made and a sheer twist of using Yarovaya Law (Закон Яровой) against anyone they choose. On the other side of the spectrum, there has been a non-political/violent movement to save Soviet Era homes only for the State Duma to deal with them, physically, but unfortunately, they too lost to the Kremlin. There was also no form of competition, if you know the motto of the Russian Orthodox Church (RoC) they consider others as competition and will do what is necessary to deal with them, be it other faiths, or anyone playing Pokemon in or near a church, to even some child quoting Shakespeare, for anything inciting of hatred tends to trigger the church greatly. That being said, the other factor is Bible bans, that effects all persons and subject them as suspect, we know this because of the tracker site formed by the FSB, so far one has been recovered, but the reason, mainly targeting religion, has been hidden and or changed on Russia's side, only after the State Duma made made new laws about a year ago. Again if you REALLY understand Apostle Paul's writing, which seems to be an issue already, you'd realize the Civil Disobedience of Spiritual Warfare, for we can see that a faith's action for worship and or anything connecting to God is being suppressed., cut of, if you will. Other then that, go to Russian side of things to actually understand the situation. At the end of the day, what these people have been doing and or doing is wanting to continue their faith, nothing more, no leadership or competition and or political interest, simply trying to keep their faith community going for what they see fit is in connection to worshiping El Shaddai. Also it should also be point to claim that one shouldn't be ignoring of what was informed to such one before.

@Grey Reformer Well it is said by a majority of Russians I have seen and what is seen in the discussion with those shut out by the duma, Russian Church does not like competition. They will go after you for anything, they went for a Librarian and a Pokemon player, they went for many others and it will not stop as long as the triads of power remain. Outside of religion, people also fought for their homes and other things in Russia. The Russian Church had gotten stronger since the day the Pope met Cyrill.

People come up with different things to add on to what is there. But none of us should be letting your guard down. Another thing we should be watchful of is those who distribute ill content regarding children for I believe one Priest was caught having been receiving and distributing pornographic material regarding children. The dark web is usually where such material is often in distribution, in this priest's case, his action eventually led to his discover, as are for those who do the same. Other than that, it is indeed an issue, but those pushing to make it normal are only adding more to the fire and such a fire cannot be put out.

@JW Insider Ms. Heine’s information and what she has presented at the TED Talks has been taken by and is used by those who had seen it being for what she says in addition to what they see vs. those who are against the ideas of those to take the information to begin with. Those who speak of Ms. Heine are usually the ones for and wanting to make pedophilia legal in terms of sexual orientation and such has been going on for quite some time in a constant back and forth on this pedophilia. She herself may have another prospective on the matter, but those who have heard her and used her information on the TED talks platform, even going as far as to salvage the full video itself, think otherwise. Yes, TED talks are not the type to be in support certain messages, but it does not change the mind of the viewers. Other than that, the video can be found here on this link. But yes, it has received a lot of backlash and a lot of us have seen it, but at the same time it blusters those who are for pedophilia to be not looked at as a disorder, bur rather, a sexual orientation. There is a bit of involvement from the LGBT, not all of them, but there is quite some in regards to pedophilia, for I wanted to bring forth an example here in the past, but it is a bit too much to be posted here as to what it actually is, granted with what was seen of children's involvement in the groups by a good portion of people from the LGBT community. Although no sexual abuse had been committed, for we do not know as of yet, but a bit of inappropriate events involving some from the LGBT community and children is seen as pedophilia, at times be it the parents and or others in connection who are also at play in such events via support while others sound off and are against it. But yes, LGBTP may seem like a smear campaign but the there are things that are not being shown or talked about news or other media, one instance being a specific group who is of the LGBT community who teach children to express themselves and even explain to them they can be a boy or a girl, at the same time, mainly for boys, they have them dressed up in such a way that is not normal and have them parading around, in some instances, with group adults, something of which is never brought up, so it may not come as a surprise as to the whole Pedosexual thing. Some may see it as fake news, but it is too obvious to see such people from the LGBT community who have children who do these things, mainly inappropriate dances as to which the child is cheered on for doing. But pedophilia as well as having some of their own in the LGBT community who are for pedophilia being a sexual orientation, granted with what is already seen. I was looking into things 2015 and onward, mainly for those who are making the push to make it a sexual orientation and such ones do not see it as a disorder. I would have to go back further to see just to connect all the dots together, for I had read such had been removed from being a disorder, but a soon to be accepted sexual orientation dubbed pedosexuality. For me, personally, I hold to the fact that it is a disorder and such ones need help, but at the same time, it is bizarre to me that there is a lot of people who want to make it a sexual orientation, which will eventually lead to problems, for this is both a concern and a fear hat many, even me, tend to be worried about because when a small problem continues to grow, it will become big to the point it cannot be contained.

Letter writing isn't politically no matter what anyone says, so I will put this out here because some people still not fully aware of the situation in Russia and or the EU. What they fail to see at times is in an act where one's faith is hindered and or ANYTHING pertaining to God is being affected, Spiritual Warfare and or Civil Disobedience comes into play, and it comes in many forms. Telling a government official to stop bothering people and allowing worship to continue is not political and granted of how much we already know of Russia, well some of us to dwell in this information, such can be said otherwise among truth vs. claims. If one deems this as political, then they have to do the same with Christians vs. Satanist at a conference and or a cemetery, or perhaps the whole Bible ban in Western US an the like. Christians resort to Spiritual Warfare and Civil Disobedience should anything or anyone hinder their faith and or ability to worship God the right way, or anything pertaining to God such as spreading the gospel, reading the Bible, talking about, praying in schools, public or even in your home, etc. What can be said is since Christianity is on the decline, it will be far worse than Russia or the Middle East. For we already see how Christians are in the US due to some forms of worship and or study has been banned or ceased, they react in a crazy way such as a school girl finding out the boy they like does not like them back, and will go on being enraged angsty warpath until either calmed down or something goes their way to fill that void.

@Srecko Sostar This has already been discussed, you were even in the discussion in regards to OSCE: Learn what it is if it didn't get through the first time: Mind you, you agreed with everything said in the end, but here we see that is the complete opposite and the clear expectation that no one would realize it til now.

@James Thomas Rook Jr. Granted we have the Lucis Trust, the people of the Grove, E.I.I., the Shadow Government, democracized media, The Global Mafia, Soros and friends sit around watching their money go to work on the Left and the Right fighting, a 2nd Civil War looming around as well as talks of WW 3 depending on a certain ally of the US, the UN taking notes on trying to shift the amendments, and a list of other things, you'd be surprise of how many people are not a fan of government, mainly if you take the time to go to the deepest and darkest areas to find information. One of my very reasons I do not take kindly to politics and politicians, mainly when you actually find out the truth of things out of the wave of mixed social media and conspiracy. For all things must be carefully researched and analyzed to see the real conclusion.

Well it is only going to get worse. People spend so much time on churches and schools without looking at those who are pushing to make pedophilia legal, with majority from the LGBT community in support the movement for LGBTP, the P at the end is refers to Pedosexual, the end result would be as told before, pedophilia will surge and more of them will break out the floodgates and hit institutions even harder. That being said, this should not be a surprise, granted how easily one with a pedophilia disorder (they removed it from the list of disorders some months ago and the reason is obvious) can make their way to children by gaining trust, authority, respect, reputation, etc. So it is very tough to catch these kinds of people if people do not know the basic signs, one of them is if someone is way too close with the kid and giving way too many gifts and or other, keeping secrets and whatnot. So for some it isn't that easy. As for the 1,006 count, the number is far more lower than that granted some were pointed out as allegations, mainly unproven ones, I believe the numbers have been posted here some months ago. Other than that, pedophilia is a big problem, for if no one is going to tackle the issue the right way and the smartest way, the problem will continue to grow and now we see a big fight with people pushing to make it legal to the point the teachings of making such a legality has been on TED Talks already. In a simple sense, one is too bust getting his house rid of termites, but never goes for the nest. But the way I see it, the whole sexual orientation movement has already got a head start in that fight while all of us are lollygagging around.

In parts of the country, some people are backed by laws and regulations and preaching to someone, mainly if they are of Islam can land you in some serious trouble, for some people, it is considered justice to exact punishment, some on the other hand thing silencing someone for good is the viable option so one has to be very weary about whom they speak or read the Bible to because you may just win the jackpot with an individual who takes the message the wrong way and thinks a consequence must be in play. In this guy's case, he dodged a bullet, or for this situation, a sword swing for he was informed of what these people who were not a fan of his conversion and what the had to say and these people were going to do something serious, but before they could the man in question was long gone. Long story short, one has to not just be careful of the area they speak the gospel in, mainly if you are a regular and or live in said area, but one have to be very weary of whom they speak the gospel to, especially those who are not a fan of the gospel, to the extent they would actually do something about it, from minor things to major that is deemed dangerous and or confrontational. For, persecution is like a bag of Skittles mixed in with M&M's. you can pick one and get any color, and you might have one that is a fruity taste or chocolate, so it is down right random and can spin out of control fast for some people in certain areas.

It can get worse, but luckily it did not, I know a girl who lives in Egypt, her father was nearly beheaded because he spoke of God, for he was learning. Apparently speaking of God or of one's faith, mainly at this point, Christianity should spell disaster for some people, but it seems the Coptic Church is exempted from that madness. It can get far worse depending on where you live from minor to major things, even being subjected to occult/black magic and other forms of craziness and gruesome brutality.

@JW Insider There is little to no activity of Wahabbism, in the 1970s when things change there was a bit of presence there, I think around the late 1970s like 1978-1979 or something like that. But yeah, Syria and Iran are at this time cool with each other, but Israel and the Saudis do not like them, mainly if taking into account the major allies they have behind them.

It depends. When you zero it down, you are 2 main groups (although like Christianity and Judaism, even Islam has several denominations), the Sunnis and the Shias. Sunnis have several branches and one of them is Wahhabism, of which tends to be the more tougher among the others, these guys do not like normal Sunnis like them and they have somewhat of a hatred for Shia Muslims. Wahhabism has been taken and used and cranked up to 11 by radicalized Islam that has nothing to do with the others, hence being a faction in of itself, for they, among realized Islam believe they can bring forth The End, Armageddon by creating the most violent, death and destruction to all men they deem as infidels, not realizing they are on a demented path. This extreme form of Wahhabism is the result of the US involvement in the Middle East, back in the days of Osama Bin Laden's Father, Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden. Let's just say there was a lot of people involved in this mess, one person's last name starting with B and ending with H, and is the senior.  That being said, the Middle East has changed, I mean, it looked way nicer back in the day prior to Wahhabism, Iran being an example [video cuts halfway at 4:26 for it is that old, as in VHS-levels of old]   Other:  Â

@TheWorldNewsOrg Insulting of an ally begets consequences (necessary friendly-fire). That is how the Global Mafia works in terms of the Shadow Government.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd it's going up and up and up, etc. etc. etc. http://www.usdebtclock.org

@James Thomas Rook Jr. Seconded. Everyone is different, good people and bad people. But even in this day and age, if a man of a nation does something bad, the mentality of people will lead them not blame the man, but the whole nation for the actions of the man, in this sense, it is like saying the a man in Liverpool is known for his harsh insults and rudeness and because of this man, everyone in Liverpool, and in the United Kingdom are like this man, when the reality is, not everyone follows and mimics the man who speaks insults.

@James Thomas Rook Jr. I have seen some JWs with disabilities and or some form of mental illness, some of which are among the children that I had overseen in the past before. Not sure if ones with literal physical deformities to the body, be it young or old, but it has been said even those who bear such are capable of doing the ministry. Plus it is 2018 now, surely things have changed up since then. Other than that, it depends on the individual in or out of the church, are they equipped and or able to handle such children and or adults or not? Can one tend to those of special needs, be it in a church, work environment and or other? Can one capable of handling conflict, majority negative verbal insults and or hate to someone; someone who is harassing the child/adult who is indeed of special treatment and or care? You cannot assume that you can build a bird house without tools, but you have the wood, nor can you be confident in building a bird house, if you now have wood, but no tools. Therefore, being ill-equipped. Being equipped, able and knowledgeable in how to build such a thing, requires both tools and wood. Catch my drift? Not the best analogies, but in a way it has some sense to it. Things of that nature.

Unfortunately one has to stand up for their belief in the Bible, in my experience, it was a bit harsh, it consist of both hate, racism a chalk full of discrimination being directed towards me and several instances of the same person attempting to provoke me so I can physically hit him, in an attempt to play the blame game to pin the accusations against me, another instance is where I almost did something because I was pushed to do so, but I merely pinned the same kid down and it was only then he had been exposed for what he has been doing to people who is not the same race as him, and I guess that pin down caused the other kids to speak up finally when they saw the bully on the ground, mind you this was the 3rd grade, granted the fact at the time, most American kids were not aware of someone their age who knows twice as much as they do of not just the Bible, but of a lot of other things, education and learning was kid key in my household since I was on the islands. I was not Nationalistic or Patriotic either, for when I was 10, when 9/11 happened, when the Twin Towers fell, I remember someone, my age, saying why didn't America stop the plane and save all those people, as I grew older, I know the truth and how monstrous people can be, the blood of all those was of government hands by means of corruption and money and power, should such have not been in place at the time, those Towers would have still been standing, but this is the price they pay for messing around in the Middle East, but history repeat itself and we can see this now being played out by world powers and their supporters. Other than that, such is the reason why I can be very strict when it comes to history, the Bible and other things because the way I see it, it is as if I am back in that class, despite being a young adult now. Unlike my younger self though I am more restraint, I do not pin people down physically, if anything, I throw knowledgeable punch with facts, reasoning, and logic, and expose some people for speaking things that are false and or of conspiracy - for, knowledge is indeed power. There will be always someone for or against you, so being on a defense is always key, for at times it is not the faith they target, it is your race, your background, the way you look either physically or the say you dress, they care not for who you are as a person because they brand you the second they discover who you are and or what you follow. But that being said, if a child is very, very intelligent for his or her own good, all that can be said is for this young one to prepare for the storm, the storm can be positive at times, and negative. For some parents do not give a phone or a tablet to a child to play games all day without breaks, Temple Run, Candy Crush, or what have you, perhaps that new Fortnite nonsense that is blowing up, on the other side of the spectrum, some parents give physical books, have a give do research and more.

Letters of Paul The First Epistle to Timothy 1 Timothy 3:16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.  ? Proof of Trinitarian Error Trinitarians claim this verse identifies Jesus as "God" because it says "God was manifested in the flesh." - KJV ? The Claims vs. The Facts The manuscript evidence, and the immediate context, shows the King James Verison (KJV) reading was not authored by Apostle Paul. ? The Problems with the claims of Trinitarians Modern translations do not read, "God" at 1 Timothy 3:16. Trinitarians, as do majority of folks of the mainstream, make this particular claim by quoting only from the King James Version reading of this verse. Despite the fact that scholars agree that the KJV reading is a certain corruption, Trinitarians, even those who normally do not read the KJV, continue to cherry-pick this verse from the KJV. During the time of the Christological controversies that took place in the 4th Century, we do not see even one solitary person making a reference to the "God was manifested in the flesh" version of this verse as evidence for identifying Jesus as "God." This fact does itself undeniably demonstrate it was unknown to them. NOTE: Even the Bible says God is not like a man or a son of man (Numbers 23:19, 1 Samuel 15:29), furthermore, it is said God is not like us men (Job 9:32). If 1 Timothy 3:16 really said "God was manifest in the flesh," we can most definitely be sure this passage would have most been brought, yet, not one person mentions it even though this passage more than any other would have supported the teaching that the incarnate Christ was "God." But the facts remain as they are and it was never mentioned once in the myriads of documentation that exist illustrating what was argued in these types of debates. There is a good reason that nobody in the 4th century church ever mentioned the passage. The word "God" did not appear in 1 Timothy 3:16 until much later. It first appears in Patristic Writings and manuscripts after Trinitarian dogma was developed and is an obvious later alteration. The oldest and best manuscripts do not have the word "God" (theos) in 1 Timothy 3:16 which is why modern Bible translations do not have the word "God" at 1 Timothy 3:16 either. 1. Contemporary Trinitarian Translation Scholars Now because this verse is known to be a scribal error, contemporary Trinitarian Greek scholars, who have access to numerous manuscripts, have not been able to perpetuate this error any longer into English translations, despite the passions of some who desire the word "God" to appear in this verse at the expense of truth. The verse in question used by Trinitarians and the common translations that they use will show the verse this way, as seen in the KJV: [KJV/NKJV] - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Let us look at some of the major translations of this passage and note how Trinitarian Greek scholars themselves acknowledged the scribal error: [CEV] - Here is the great mystery of our religion: Christ came as a human. The Spirit proved that he pleased God, and he was seen by angels. Christ was preached to the nations. People in this world put their faith in him, and he was taken up to glory. [NASB] - By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory. [BSB] - By common confession, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was proclaimed among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, was taken up in glory. [BLB] - And confessedly, great is the mystery of godliness: Who was revealed in the flesh, was justified in the Spirit, was seen by angels, was proclaimed among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory. [NIV] - Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: Christ was revealed in a human body and vindicated by the Spirit. He was seen by angels and announced to the nations. He was believed in throughout the world and taken to heaven in glory. [ESV] - Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory. [NWT] - Indeed, the sacred secret of this godly devotion is admittedly great: ‘He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in the world, was received up in glory.’ [ASV] - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. [ERV] - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, received up in glory. [RSV] - Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of our religion: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory. [NRSV] - Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great: He was revealed in flesh, vindicated in spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among Gentiles, believed in throughout the world, taken up in glory. [Douey-Rheims] - And evidently great is the mystery of godliness, which was manifested in the flesh, was justified in the spirit, appeared unto angels, hath been preached unto the Gentiles, is believed in the world, is taken up in glory. [NET] - And we all agree, our religion contains amazing revelation: He was revealed in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among Gentiles, believed on in the world, taken up in glory. [NAB] - Undeniably great is the mystery of devotion, Who[a] was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed to the Gentiles, believed in throughout the world, taken up in glory. Very clearly we can see here that the Trinitarian translation scholars are admitting this version of the verse is not authentic. One then wonders why Trinitarians so often continue to ignorantly, or dishonestly, appeal to it. 2. Ho, Hos & Theos Now, if we entertain all possibilities, the remote and the more certain, there are actually three possibilities in this text: ho ("which"), hos ("who"), and "theos ("God/deity"). The first two are attested in early manuscripts. Thus one must look elsewhere to find which one is the one Apostle Paul originally wrote.  3. One Small Pen Stroke We actually have a pretty likely idea how this corruption happened. Scribal copyists routinely used a contracted form of the Greek word for "God" called a "nomem sacrum" (pl. "nomina sacra") that was used at a very early date in Christian history for sacred names. The Greek word for "God" is theos written in the Greek alphabet as qeoV, or QEOS. The copyist abbreviations correspondingly took the form qV, or QS, with an faint overscore line stroke over the abbreviation (see Figure 1 below). These strokes would often become quite faint in the copies. Now the Greek word for "who" is the word hos which is written in Greek as oV, or OS. Now notice the similarity between these two words QS, and OS, and also remember they were written by hand and would not be written so perfectly and distinctly as the typed letters on this page. With the exception of one penstroke, the Omicron (O) and Theta (Q) are nearly identical. It would be very easy to make a mistake here when copying from one manuscript to another and if that is what happened then it would be excusable. But it would also be very easy for an overzealous scribe to suppose he was doing God a favor and execute a forgery here by changing the manuscript and the handwritten O (Omicron) into a Q (Theta) with a stroke of his pen and thereby completely change the meaning of the verse. It would be also easy to change the word ho to theos by adding a stroke and an "s." And it would be far more difficult to do it the other way around without getting caught (removing the stroke). There is also evidence that ink may have bled through the other side of the media and made it appear to a copyist to read QS because the bleeding ink added what appeared to be a line where OS had been written. Whether or not it was an honest copying mistake or a forgery, it is very likely that the error was produced in this manner.  Figure 1 The Manuscript Evidence Manuscript Common Name Date Text B Codex Vaticanus ca. 300 Does not contain 1 Timothy Aleph Codex Sinaiticus ca. 350 who was manifest in flesh A Codex Alexandrinus ca. 450 who was manifest in flesh C Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus ca. 450 who was manifest in flesh D Codex Claromontanus ca. 550 which was manifest in flesh  Peshitta Coptic Ethiopic Sahidic  which was manifest in flesh  Gothic  which was manifest in flesh Patristic Witness Quotations of 1 Timothy 3:16 in the Fathers Author Reference Date Evidence Comments Ante-Nicene Church All Writings 70-325 A.D. None Not quoted by any writer before Nicea Arian Controversy Church All Writings 325 - 381 A.D. None Not quoted by any writer until late in the fourth century 6. The Internal Evidence A. The Greek Grammar The internal evidence also reveals the truth of the matter. First, the passage does not say "in the flesh" with a definite article but simply "in flesh." The word eusebias translated as "godliness" is difficult to translate into English with a word that exacts the Greek intention. The word "godliness" is a justified translation of the word and it is about as good as we can do with the selection of English words we have available. However, it does tend to over translate the Greek scope of the word. This is a common problem when translating from one language to another. The Greek word does not precisely mean what the English word "godly" tends to convey but it means something like reverent piety in a worshipful sense. The Greek words for "God" and "godliness" which are theos and eusebias are not related word cognates as they are in English. This can also tend to be misleading to readers who speak/read in English who might conclude the word "godliness" in this passage is intended to correlate with the word "God" in the KJV translation. However, in Greek the word eusebias and theos do not bear that correlation. Also, there were also no sentence ending periods in the Greek text. If the word "which" is the proper rendering, the passage actually says in the Greek, "great is the mystery of godliness which was manifested in flesh, justified in spirit..." However, if the word "God" is used we have an abrupt break in the flow of the sentence, "great is the mystery of godliness. God was manifest in flesh, justified in spirit..." The rendering which uses the word "who" or "which" is much smoother and natural. Not only so, it is typical Pauline style to compose run-on sentences. b. The Immediate Context and Pauline Thought And there is yet more which reveals this verse was corrupted. Paul here is talking about the mystery. In 2 Timothy 1:8-9 he says: [8] Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God, [9] who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, This is nearly identical to what he says in Romans 16:25: Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages  In Ephesians 1:9-10 he says: [9] making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ [10] as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. Or Ephesians 3:9: and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things, Or Ephesians 5:32: This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. Or Ephesians 6:19: and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, Or Colossians 4:3: At the same time, pray also for us, that God may open to us a door for the word, to declare the mystery of Christ, on account of which I am in prison— For, the mystery of the ages is Christ himself revealed to us by God. He tells us in Colossians, "the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Col. 1:27, see 1 Cor. 1:30; 2:7). God's mystery appeared in flesh and Christ is that fleshly manifestation of His mystery. God was Justified in the Spirit? Another problem associated with the "God" rendering is that if we just keep reading it would then say that God was justified in the Spirit. It makes absolutely no sense to say God was justified in the Spirit, God was seen by angels, God was preached among the Gentiles, God was believed on in the world, and God was received into glory." C. Paul's Vocabulary Elsewhere At Colossians 1:27 we read: To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. The relative pronoun used here is the masculine relative pronoun hos which refers back to the neuter noun "mystery." This is nearly identical to 1 Timothy 3:16 which ends with the phrase "taken up in glory." Hence we can see that hos is the likely relative pronoun to be used at 1 Timothy 3:16. D. Constructio Ad Sensum Trinitarians have sometimes insisted the gender of the pronoun in question necessitates in Greek grammar the "God" rendering. This is highly misleading. Pronouns do not always refer to the immediate antecedent but sometimes to the contextual antecedent. Determining Factors Conclusion So when we review all the evidence the solution is plain to see. The historical evidence indicates the word "God" was not there before the late fourth century at the earliest. The manuscript evidence indicates the word "God" was not in the original text. The grammar and the immediate context also indicate the KJV reading is not authentic. Christ is the mystery in question which is why the passage should read, "great is the mystery of godliness who/which was manifested in flesh, justified in spirit..." It "which" is correct it refers back the mystery; if "who" is correct it refers to Christ. Very obviously then the passage reads smoothly and makes total sense with the rest of Scripture by using either the word "who" or "which" which are attested in early manuscripts, as well as the KJV reading is an obvious error or forgery. Great is the mystery of godliness which/who was manifested in flesh."

@Srecko Sostar Did you forget what you stated in your own words and yet contridiction your very words here also? That being said, you should also be very aware of Sarah agreement with Abraham in regards to Hagar, mind you, she wanted a son. Also I asked you what if you were in Abraham's sandals int terms of the Sister-Wife narrative, not of Hagar, do not try shift what was asked of you, Sostar because it can most definitely be used against you, just like the claim of yours that Abraham was selfish, when his action was the very reason Jesus was born in Bethlehem and what was spoken of in Galatians 3:28, 29, which is not a true statement of being One in Christ, but of the one of whom Paul speaks of, the mane named Abraham, who whom you called selfish. Other than that, if you want to continue speaking of Abraham, do so in the other thread, because this time Admin will not come to save you here, therefore, keep the discussion as it is, of women and of religious leadership because clearly, the Old Testament is not even in your favor right now, and it will never be in regards to the topic.

And yet in your last response you stated this about Prophetess Deborah, Srecko Quote: "Deborah who served as military and legal leader for nation in book of Judges" false information, because we know of Deborah to be a Prophetess and a Judge of the Nation of Israel. As for the past several years, people have negated Deborah's role as a Prophetess of God to make the claim she was indeed a military leader, but they ignore the fact that she was the one given command to give word to Barak in the first place, although she followed Barak, he was the one to lead the tribes mentioned into battle, for such has only been spoken on in prophecy by the Prophetess, as she had done in regards to Jael. We also know these same people do not speak of Barak as being a ruler of Ancient Israel and military commander, mainly when it is known as to who his Father is. Now, there is no question to anyone that Judges can be and served in some form of military based service, but this is never seen in regards of Prophetess Deborah (perhaps Spiritual Leader as some would say), who was not the one to be physically fighting and or commanding an army, she simply gave word to Barak of what God had said, for God had seen the 20 years of oppression. We know some Judges did fight and lead people, for instance, Judge Shamgar, who slaughtered about 600 Philistines with an ox goad and or cattle goad and he is accredited to have saved Israel as seen in Judges 3:31, despite succumbing to death in his 1st year of being a Judge, according to Josephus, we also have Gideon, and Ehud, to name a few, perhaps Samson, who fought in a battle himself. Granted that both Deborah and Barak were dealing with Sisera, and what we know Sisera is capable of and what he tends to do with his so called spoils, clearly Deborah would not be in the battlefield, and granted she was a Prophetess, compared to the others who are of the same role as her. We know the actual truth of the matter when we read the following verse: Judges 4:4-5 - [4] Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time. [5] She used to sit under the palm of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the people of Israel came up to her for judgment. Now then Srecko, I stated you are confusing the information because we see nowhere that Prophetess Deborah served as a military commander or the like (something of which other Judges who I have mentioned already, have done, but not this Prophetess), and it is already know that she is a Judge of the Nation of Israel. She did give a message, granted her position as not only a Judge of the Nation of Israel, but also a Prophetess, remember, a Prophetess is a female counterpart of a Prophet, we should already be aware of what a Prophet actually is: a person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God. Continuing on from the verses above we also read the following to correct these claims of yours: "I would say that she became, maybe by not her own will, person who take responsibility of leadership as Commander of army too. So by that she was important person in chain of command. " [6] She sent and summoned Barak the son of Abinoam from Kedesh-naphtali and said to him, “Has not the Lord [YHWH], the God of Israel, commanded you, ‘Go, gather your men at Mount Tabor, taking 10,000 from the people of Naphtali and the people of Zebulun. [7] And I will draw out Sisera, the general of Jabin's army, to meet you by the river Kishon with his chariots and his troops, and I will give him into your hand’?” We can see here that she summoned Barak for God has used her in order to summon and choose Barak in the first place, for Barak was indeed both a ruler and an actual military commander and had she said these things to him as well as making known to him a fortelling, for if she had led the military and or is a military commander, it would have stated that in the Book of Judges and there wouldn't be a need for Barak or God having the Prophetess send for him, but clearly we see nothing of the sort because we know of how Barak's involvement by means of Scripture. After contacting Barak and informing him of the situation and what God had said, Barak said the following in the next verse: [8] Barak said to her [Deborah], “If you will go with me, I will go, but if you will not go with me, I will not go.” [9] And she said, “I will surely go with you. Nevertheless, the road on which you are going will not lead to your glory, for the Lord will sell Sisera into the hand of a woman.” And as I said, both Deborah and Barak had the same common interest in liberating Israel from an enemy, and because of this, Prophetess Deborah went with Barak. [9b] Then Deborah arose and went with Barak to Kedesh. [10] And Barak called out Zebulun and Naphtali to Kedesh. And 10,000 men went up at his heels, and Deborah went up with him. As for your next response, how are you so sure that she went onto the Battlefield fighting and leading? Of all people a Judge who is a Prophetess unless you are willing to show us a verse or two, or perhaps a passage? The account very clear, for it states that Deborah went with Barak, for Barak not only allowed her to follow him due to common interest, but because God's presence by means of the Prophetess, you know, the same God who through Deborah who summoned Barak a military commander to begin with. Moreover, we see in the verses itself of who is leading Zbulun and Naphtali to Kedesh to begin with, we see who is leading the 10,000 men among such ones, and Deborah followed went with them, and not only does the Bible says such, but historic accounts that lines up with the Bible says so as well. Here is an actual fact: Deborah summoned Barak, the son of Abinoam, from his home at Kedesh in Naphtali, and ordered him, in the name of YHWH, to take ten thousand men to Mount Tabor. He agrees to on condition that Deborah should go with him. Here he was attacked, as Deborah had expected, by Sisera, whose forces were put to flight, and the greater part of them slain, by Barak's army (Barak, Jewish Encyclopedia) So your response: So by that she was important person in chain of command. And she went on battle field! Is unfounded for even Biblical and historical facts of the Hebrew Bible speaks for itself, hence no mention of her actually fighting and taking chair in the field itself. The fighting forces were led by and commanded by Barak to fight against Sisera and his army. Deborah was a Prophetess and a Judge who also was very not liking of Sisera, who by means of God summoned Barak and foretold what was to come, and because of this, Barak accepts in condition that Deborah comes with him, in which she does for the both of them to see it through that their enemy, and God's enemy, is defeated. Plus it is evident that everyone and anyone is aware that Barak is God's chosen military leader for the task at hand. As for this: You said in your explanation that (and confirmed my statement) by saying;"... under the command of Barak and Prophetess Deborah.." If you actually took into account the whole statement I made I said the following, why stop at a small portion? Anyways the quote in full was this: The one of whom Deborah spoke to was Barak, for he was a ruler of Ancient Israel as well as a military commander as seen in The Book of Judges. Barak, with Prophetess Deborah, from the Tribe of Ephraim, the prophet and 4th Judge of pre-monarchic Israel, defeated the Canaanite armies led by Sisera. For Sisera was was commander of the Canaanite army of King Jabin of Ha'zor, who is mentioned in Judges 4-5 of the Hebrew Old Testament. After being defeated by the forces of the Israelite Tribes, that of both Zebulun and Naphtali, under the command of Barak and Prophetess Deborah, Sisera was defeated and was killed by Jael, who hammered a tent peg into his temple. We know that Barak and Deborah were not friends with Sisera who was of the enemy of whom the people of Israel had been oppressed by Jabin, the king of Ca'naan, whose capital was Ha'zor, for 20 years - the very reason this Prophetess and Judge came into play to begin with. Barak was the one who gave command and Deborah's command came forth by means of a message, from God which led to the summoning of Barak, check out the references if you have the time. For, we are even aware of what Prophetess Deborah had stated when she said the following in Judges 4:14: Go! This is the day the Lord has given Sisera into your hands. Has not the Lord gone ahead of you?" So Barak went down Mount Tabor, with ten thousand men following him. Why would I be confuse about something of the Hebrew Old Testament of which I had read through and studied time and time again for nearly 18+ years? The confusion is your claim that Deborah was a military commander of some sort, we do not see anything of the like in the Book of Judges (although some who make this claim negate/exclude Barak totally), so I'd be careful to speak of confusion, after all, you have shown confusion throughout this thread, just as you have with Chloe. Yes, Jael, also known as Yael, The wife of Heber the Kenite (a non-Israelite), in addition, the Kenite people were a Nomadic Tribe, some of whom lived very close to the Israelite people. In the Bible, it records a number of cases of intermarriage of the people, and the father-in-law of Moses was apparently a Kenite, but it is not clear if this was in fact Jethro. She is mentioned in the Book of Judges in the Hebrew Bible, as the heroine/hero who killed Sisera to deliver Israel from the troops of King Jabin. The last time we spoke of her you were against her actions, as in Spiritual Warfare and Civil Obedience and the very fact she is seen as a hero, to even women today, granted her title being: Slayer of The Canaanite Army Chief, Sisera. After Sisera was defeated by Barak's forces, he fled to a neutral Heber camp, and this is where he has met with the woman, Jael, who had invited him into her tent. Jael took care of him, she then covered him with a blanket. When Sisera asked for water she gave him a bowl of curdled milk to drink. While being very relaxed, Sisera was the one to had ask her to stand guard, for he knew being defeated, Barak's forces would come for him. For he had thought to himself that he was secured by means of Jael. Eventually, Sisera fell asleep for it is evident this man was exhausted, granted how he fled this far out. At this moment, Jael, took this opportunity to take up a tent peg, sneak into the tent of where Sisera was sleeping in, then she quietly went to him, armed with a hammer and a tent peg that she drove through his head, instantly killing Sisera in his sleep. Barak finally tracked down the last area Sisera was in only for Jael to confront Barak and showed him the corpse/dead body of The Army Chief, Sisera, for Sisera is now dead at the hand of a woman, as foretold by Prophetess Deborah foretold in Judges 4:9 and 17-22. And she said, “I will surely go with you. Nevertheless, the road on which you are going will not lead to your glory, for the Lord will sell Sisera into the hand of a woman.” Then Deborah arose and went with Barak to Kedesh. [17] But Sisera fled away on foot to the tent of Jael, the wife of Heber the Kenite, for there was peace between Jabin the king of Hazor and the house of Heber the Kenite. [18] And Jael came out to meet Sisera and said to him, “Turn aside, my lord; turn aside to me; do not be afraid.” So he turned aside to her into the tent, and she covered him with a rug. [19] And he said to her, “Please give me a little water to drink, for I am thirsty.” So she opened a skin of milk and gave him a drink and covered him. [20] And he said to her, “Stand at the opening of the tent, and if any man comes and asks you, ‘Is anyone here?’ say, ‘No.’” [21] But Jael the wife of Heber took a tent peg, and took a hammer in her hand. Then she went softly to him and drove the peg into his temple until it went down into the ground while he was lying fast asleep from weariness. So he died. [22] And behold, as Barak was pursuing Sisera, Jael went out to meet him and said to him, “Come, and I will show you the man whom you are seeking.” So he went in to her tent, and there lay Sisera dead, with the tent peg in his temple. Because of Jael's actions, and courageous act against a threat to the Israelites, the one who was deemed an enemy of God, this prompted a song of victory of Prophetess Deborah, Judge of the Nation of Israel, and of military commander and ancient ruler of Israel, Barak, which also pronounces Jael most blessed among women as seen in Judges 5:6 and 24-27. “In the days of Shamgar, son of Anath, in the days of Jael, the highways were abandoned, and travelers kept to the byways. [24] “Most blessed of women be Jael, the wife of Heber the Kenite, of tent-dwelling women most blessed. [25] He asked for water and she gave him milk; she brought him curds in a noble's bowl. [26] She sent her hand to the tent peg and her right hand to the workmen's mallet; she struck Sisera; she crushed his head; she shattered and pierced his temple. [27] Between her feet he sank, he fell, he lay still; between her feet he sank, he fell; where he sank, there he fell—dead. As for your response: With Church or without Church, we discuss about does woman have ability, permission, possibility, obligation, prohibition, advice, and similar - to do same things as male doing. The focus from the start was of the church and religious leadership, and even before that it was already stated using Deborah's role as Prophetess and Judge has nothing to do with church leadership and or the like. It is already established that a JW or anything of them will not save you here, and it is most likely the Admin will not save you here also. But I like how you attempt to shift religious leadership into the Hebrew Old Testament of things, classic Srecko Sostar when it comes to adding and or changing discussion as time progresses, mind you, you seem to show opinion and feeling of church leadership prior to this, but I guess the so called story that sister was indeed made up after all if you changed this fast. But what I find quite amusing is not too long ago you said the following: Do you want suggesting something about JHVH and why he chose Deborah for leading position over all nation, over all males, elders, patriarchs? The thing is, the focus of the discussion of of women, yes, but of religious leadership roles, if you forgot, read through the first page again, remember, you did try to twist and use Paul's work already. And why must the game of favoritism be played? Last I checked, none of these women had anything to do with religious leadership of authority and or hold pastoral office in a church. The Hebrew Old Testament has some of the most brutal things that had taken place, such being from either men or women in this case. But nowhere in the Hebrew Old Testament it is shown that women held an office in a Church. Using a Prophetess and a Judge is seen as cowardly in terms of discussion, granted the actual Biblical Fact technically foreshadowed such in this regard, mainly by the likes of you, Sostar. Therefore, as I said earlier in this discussion, using a Prophetess does not prove religious leadership, and using someone like Deborah is not going to help either, granted she is a not just a Prophetess, but a Judge among Judges of Israel. Of course you did, and that infomration also defeats your earlier response, let's see how this is actucally true. Also I found the source of where you pulled that information (of course the very first link of Google via search, typical move made by typical people) https://obscurecharacters.com/2013/11/08/barak-a-reluctant-commander/ I show the link here so people can see where you got your information. You also seem to skip the very first parts and skip straight to Analysis. You stated that Deborah who served as military and legal leader for nation in book of Judges. The information you linked stated otherwise. An the primary focus of this linked information was of Barak. Granted he, Barak, was the Son of Abinoam of Kedesh within the territory of Naphtali. During an early period in the time for 20 years the people endured oppression by Jabin, the king of Ca'naan- it is history after all. The oppressed ones cried out to God, and eventually it was then that Barak became their appointed leader as we can read in Judges 4:1-3. On the other hand, the oppressors under Jabin were heavily armed to the teeth as we can see in Judges 5:8. But, in Barak’s day, God gave Israel victory over their foes, a a fight that was won and such that was not forgotten, see Psalms 83:9. Only 2 accounts of these matters are shown in the Bible and by means of history, an that is in the Book of Judges, the chapters already being known because it has already been mentioned, and the both of them are complements each other and shows us a clear picture of what took place during that time. That being said, God has not broke his own principle in regards to the Church, granted churches only came about in and around Jesus' day, from infancy to adulthood into his death and resurrection, hence what was said in The Gospel of Matthew chapter 16 and what was seen onward. But attempting to compare Judges to a church will not do much for you, granted I even stated that women do have roles and I told you before that some women, including Sarah (of whom you called her Husband, Abraham, Selfish), are seen as Heroes, but it is not surprise you say something different oppose to what you have stated before, this goes for Jael too. That being said, you pretty much linked information from a source that only defeats what you said originally, you can't delete that one. And you've yet to prove the case on Chloe because after being corrected (the very reason you shift away from her in regards to your claim), once again, you make no mention of such, if you want we can speak on Judges, but as stated before, using a Judge over the nation of Israel, granted on ho such ones are Judges to begin with, let alone attempting to use a Prophetess of the Hebrew Old Testament to make a justification for something in the Greek New Testament, the church, is nothing more than a feeble struggle, of which can be seen here. I did you a favor on using your own link to direct you on all information about Jael, but unlike you I do not selected a small portion, the link explains everything, not solely the analysis alone: https://obscurecharacters.com/2014/02/14/kenites-some-good-some-bad/ Other than that you've yet to show us Deborah, a Prophetess was actually taking charge here in terms of leading the fighters into battle or being in the battle itself. She can be present, yes, but actually leading and fight - unlikely. For if Shamgar, who is a Judge himself, was in a position to do so and it was mentioned in the Bible - his battle, him actually fighting, etc., why is it you cannot do the same for Deborah? Because it is unfounded, and the very fact you haven't mention Barak till now (the source itself, not you) or no mention of who his Father is speaking volume and is very telling, just as your claim of Chloe being a church leader in Corinth when the evidence amounts before you. Read your Bible and understand it, otherwise you'll be corrected. That being said, nothing here makes proof to claim of church leadership, mainly when speaking of Apostle Paul who was not a leader of an army, a nation and or other, he was a leader of a church, an Apostle or as some would say, a Saint.

At least you appear to be learning, or it may be just another ploy - one will find out eventually. Look at the references in accordance with what Apostle Paul says in regards to Creation. Mind you he addresses this to the Church before it went on it's chaos filled path, which got Chloe and her Household informing Paul, resulting in Paul giving instruction only for the church to change later on as seen in The Second Epistle to Corinthians, written by Paul in Macedonia. You can use Biblehub because it is there, I even mention such to Witness in a response to how his Pearl sees it, hen the Bible says otherwise. To some extend, it has been address, take a look at what I said already or you can look at the biblical evidence taken from a source: [5] Biblical Fact which is addressed above on this very page.

It in regards to A Judgment Against Judah, and the references point to Jeremiah 5:31 and Habakkuk 1:4, that is, if you bothered to look at the main references, or perhaps the extension? Job 30:13, Proverbs 28:16, Eccle. 10:16, Isaiah 9:16, 19:14, 28:14, 15, Micah 3:5. Deborah was a Judge of the Nation of Israel, not of the church, and this goes back to Biblical Fact in which you are trying to equal that of the Old Testament when no church existed during that time. Or did you miss purposely when I address Deborah as a Prophetess? Actually here is where you confuse the information. Prophetess Deborah was the one who gave word to Barak that God gave command him to lead an attack against the forces of the King of Ca'naan and his military commander, Sisera (Judges 4:6–7).The narrative is shown in in chapter 4 of the same book. The one of whom Deborah spoke to was Barak, for he was a ruler of Ancient Israel as well as a military commander as seen in The Book of Judges. Barak, with Prophetess Deborah, from the Tribe of Ephraim, the prophet and 4th Judge of pre-monarchic Israel, defeated the Canaanite armies led by Sisera. For Sisera was was commander of the Canaanite army of King Jabin of Ha'zor, who is mentioned in Judges 4-5 of the Hebrew Old Testament. After being defeated by the forces of the Israelite Tribes, that of both Zebulun and Naphtali, under the command of Barak and Prophetess Deborah, Sisera was defeated and was killed by Jael, who hammered a tent peg into his temple. The fact you didn't mention Barak is awfully silly, granted when we know of his relationship with Prophetess Deborah. Both Barak and Prophetess Deborah had a common interest, and that is: Liberating Israel from Canaanite oppression. All males of church affilation are only mentioned in The Greek New Testament, so why even mention elders, patriarchs when in the Old Testament, as addressed before, never made any mention of churches? Samson was a Judge himself, not a leader of a church., in fact, Samson was one of the last of the judges of the ancient Israel. Including him [Samson] and Deborah, there is: Othniel, Ehud, Shamgar, Gideon, Abimelech, Tola, Jair, Jephthah, Ibzan, Elon, and Abdon. As far as the eye can see, none of them held leadership and or pastoral role of office inside a church, granted such didn't even exist around that time. Unless you are willing to speak of a church of the Old Testament, enlighten me. For such is unfounded, and I have spoken about Deborah many times, mainly in regards of committing Spiritual Warfare and or Civil Disobedience and the fact she is listed as a hero, along with several other, in her case, aiding the military commander, Barak, to save the nation of Israel itself. Here is the Claim and Response from the evidence, as stated before:

It's not even my prove, it is of the Bible. I even told you, use ANY translation you want, all references for 1 Corinthians 14:34 point back to several verses, which Genesis 3:16 is included among those listed? It can easily be seen here: https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/14-34.htm https://www.openbible.info/labs/cross-references/search?q=1+Corinthians+14%3A34 https://www.biblestudytools.com/1-corinthians/passage/?q=1-corinthians+14:34-40 Extended references point to that of the structure of the family. I need not prove something that is already in motion, what I have only prove is what has always be and forever will be cannot be changed, for man cannot change the order of things. Indeed, this is true, God did speak of this to Adam and Eve, but it did not stop anyone long after Adam and Eve to speak of something similar and or making a reference to it, the same can be said of Genesis 3:15, even thought you deem Abraham as selfish, this verse also is enough evidence of the Promise, in regards to the coming Prophet, known as the Christ. That being said, have you even read the references for Genesis 3:16 itself? That being said, it is no surprise to anyone who actually pays attention to the references in the Bible in regards to everything and or anything Apostle Paul says, like what was already addressed, God is a God of Order and what is set in motion cannot be changed, the very reason why Paul went back to Creation itself in major parts of each and every part of his work by means of his writings. Indeed, so is verse 15, and we know that in regards to what Paul addresses, of Creation in which he put into application of the church, it is not a shock to anyone that Paul who even point to such, but apparently, it comes as a shock to you because you have proven yourself to never address any references to a verse, for instance you being in agreement now with Being One in Christ, but elsewhere you call Abraham, who was given the Promise of which is spoken of in Genesis, to be a selfish man. And the evident mainstream attitude you profess here and all over the place shows this too, so such is already expected, as is the response. You did show yourself to like Biblehub, how about you start using it now? Or is it the references a bit much for you, Sostar? Not quite. The Ancestral Original Sin did come from Adam and Eve, yes, but what Apostle Paul was conveying in a majority of his work is Creation. As stated by him, God created man first and later on, he created a woman, so there was indeed sometime in between thus making you wrong before when you stated both Adam and Eve were created at the same time. Paul, then addresses that Adam was never deceived, but the woman, Eve, had been deceived and became a transgressor, however, she will be kept safe through childbearing, provided she continues in faith, love and holiness along with soundness of mind, mind you, this was before The Church of Corinth went bonkers, as this can be seen in the First Epistle of Timothy, you know, the passage I kept pointing out that the both of you are not addressing properly. In the references it shows Paul was addressing Creation in application to the church, as well as the family, Husband, Wife, Offspring, and speaks of them in terms of roles, as he has with the church. Other than that, your remark of imperfection contradicts what you have said some weeks ago, I will not link it because I know that will vanish, but just know that this has been said and it must be said. Does one being educated of all things biblical and historical, offend you? I thought you people see that knowledge is power, is it not? Or perhaps one is not to know all things? I really didn't have a choice in learning about the Bible as a mere child, but I accepted it without hesitation because I knew I'd benefit and know who the True God is, and I consider that strict biblical study and teachings as well as history, as a blessing. I know some Scholars and some Biblical Students, I know some professors also who teach about biblical history and the church, granted they are bias because on some points. How are you so sure they they are not accurate? There is a lot of people who understand the Bible who are indeed knowledgeable in this sense. Especially those who literally lived by the Bible since they were a toddler. It is not about education, as you want to make it seem, it is about what the Bible says and only what the Bible says in accordance to the historical evidence of the scriptures, the manuscripts, the early church, and other forms of writings of the Apostolic Age. In your case, it is not about education or not, it is about clear ignorance and even with evidence placed before you, you ignore it, this isn't the first time and I will continue to profess what is indeed true because I actually take the initiative to read and research and see the true conclusion. Well if you actually take the time to look at the references for 1 Corinthians 14:34, it should be obvious, granted when he stated the Law says so, it points to several verses, one of them including Genesis, granted Paul spoke strongly of not just the truth, but of Creation, of The Promised Seed, as well as the Family, core things of which Apostle Paul profess and even by his own students although their views have changed later on. It is not about what is written in the same verse, it is about understanding in full context of what the verse conveys, granted that the verse in of it self even gives you the references. Like I said read and research and with what is gathered, the context is there and obvious like the sun in the sky or the grass on the ground for it is that clear. No, the only problem you have is being cryptic, somewhat ignorant and contradicting, and at times, being in your own feelings on things because you do not see it the way the Bible speaks of such. Should I discuss with you on the likes of cursed ones in the Torah Old Testament, your feelings would obviously be expressed as you have done so before. I would not say vision either, let's not forget it was you who stated that such are of your own interpretation and or opinions of what the Bible says when the Bible is the complete opposite. God is not a God of favoritism, he is a God of Law as well as a God of Order. In this application is is also in mankind itself for man came first and woman came after and you can even see such being expressed in both the Old and New Testament. For if God didn't have an issue with such, then surely he would not be having issues with someone being equal and or above him, which is not the case, in this same sense, God is above all persons and Spirit Beings. He is above both men and women and is above the Christ, but the application of Order in terms of God all the way to his creation remains intact, it is in the Law, it is in the church and it is in the family, that is something that is unbreakable and those who challenge it are the very ones that are in error for their ways. This is why I stated even true Christian women would say the same thing of what I m addressing, since you brought up Buddhist in Thailand, look for a True Christian women there and discuss on the matter and see who is in the right. That being said, anyone who tries to change is is of the mainstream and it is only being done by them for they are in the OK with women being of religious leadership when the reality is this is problematic to what was addressed by means of structure regarding God's view on things as well as the Order of which has been expressed by several, including Apostle Paul. No one said Theocratic Order, but it is funny now that you are making words up when you realize you put yourself in a box - once again. Adam was addressing the fruit he has eaten because Eve, who had been deceived, gave Adam the fruit to eat, the only reason Adam was nervous when God question him about his nakedness. Adam, even before he ate the fruit was aware of Eve, for not only he loved her, he even spoke to God of how the animals have mates which eventually led to Eve's creation by means of Adam's rib. Again you ignore what Apostle Paul even said. Adam was the first man and Eve was the First Woman. Adam was created first and later on, Eve was created, she was second to be created. Paul addresses Creation in regards to God's Order, Eve was the wife of Adam. This application is in the Bible itself so it is no surprise Paul brought it up, granted references tend to go way back to Genesis when he speaks of anything of the like. You still are missing the point, and I do not know whether to be amused or baffled about such. Adam and Eve are not animals, friend, they are humans, extremely distinct from animals. Again you keep bringing up Jehovah's Witnesses when you clearly are up against biblical evidence and history, you are making yourself to be quite the comical one, but at the same time you still refuse to understand what Paul was trying to convey, and you are being ignorant of what is indeed true, just like how the truth about Chloe had been expressed not too long ago. Check out the links posted above and see exactly of what Paul was speaking about in terms of Creation, take a good look at 1 Timothy 2:11-14 because as of now you are making yourself out to be foolish, Sostar. What Paul stated The Law says so, he is addressing creation and such points to several verses. Well then Biblehub may have it in your you than, or perhaps all Biblical sources that address all cross-references be it exact and or extended. Perhaps they will quake at your exegesis of Chloe too, which is unlikely, for any man can see through that deception.

@Jack Ryan Please. Not all Muslims are like this to assume such is foolishness on your part, but it would seem I would have to educate you on their views as well, but it is likely you are among those who are in fear of them due to the whole Islamophobia thing.