Foreigner

... I know that weasels do .....

It’s not over yet. Squirrels may have taken hostages.

... think about how EFFECTIVE it would be if therapists just let patients beat the hell out of them for a half hour ....
... it probably works like that, both ways!
 

More like the "man of five minutes" ... unless you are distracted by a squirrel outside your window.
You have medallions?

@TrueTomHarley  you lose me half way through your comments. I'm getting old and it's hot here in Devon England 
Quote "I don’t entreat them to come back on the side of the angels." "Essentially, they have tasted and pronounced Jehovah bad."
Once again i don't know exactly who you are talking about, BUT these two quotes above make me think that YOU are ONCE AGAIN mixing up JW Org/GB/Wt, with Almighty God. 
It was YOU that said that a person does not have to be a baptised JW to be able to witness about Jehovah. 
So does a person have to use the name Jehovah to witness about Almighty God ? What if a person uses the name Yahweh ?  
Space Merchant for an example. I'm sure he would say he is a Christian. Does he have to use the name Jehovah to talk about God ?
If perchance you were including me in those above comments, then you judge me badly. But I suppose I put you and the KId in the same pot, so I don't expect anything different. 
Just a tag on : now i know it was Srecko that you were talking about, i can't remember what you said about  him  

holding?
Usually intrepid is prefaced by  "Here...hold my beer"

...... I just cheeked this thread, all the way back to the beginning, and there are no "Weasel" series cartoons here, so that gives me a good excuse to post some of  them here, on THIS thread, which is already 11 pages.
 

@James Thomas Rook Jr. perhaps Billy is double/triple  agent :)))

" To the extent people think he is a Witness, he paints them as the most intolerant, rigid, and anger-prone people on the planet. " - TTH
That is an incredibly IMPORTANT observation, that I also have considered at great length, as I have seen that many times in the secular world, and occasionally in the Truth.
That is why I personally think it is VERY important that BillyTheKid46 come out of the closet, and declare whether or not his opinions are that of a Jehovah's Witness, and even whether or not he is a Watchtower Lawyer  ... specifically, himself. He is trying to sit on the fence, hide behind his fake avatar, and fake persona.
I have often (every time he starts typing ..) thought that he is a bitter enemy of Jehovah's Witnesses, and an excellent psychologist, and deliberately portrays himself as a petulant, angry, demented, slow and  truly nasty person (when he may in actual fact be NONE of those things ...), in order to with reverse psychology make Jehovah's Witnesses look like all those things ... so that others are deliberately CHASED AWAY from any idea that they might want to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
That's why I started my series of "Weasel" cartoons, to try and "force the issue", of having Billy declare who he REALLY is, behind his anonymous false front .... that he deliberately keeps as a false front to deceive, and mislead.
I hope Billy clarifies this issue, and I would be heavily inclined to accept his clarification at face value, as stated.
Years ago, I told a Brother who had come to visit me, that he might want to consider not doing so, as I was not a very good example of a Jehovah's Witness, officially, and hanging around me might get him in serious trouble with the Elders.
.. I seem to have lost my train of thought ... but there is a lesson in there somewhere ....
Fortunately, I have a stockpile of cartoons to get refocused on ....
 
 

@TrueTomHarley As for identifying of whom you speak, it does make life easier. To keep going back pages to reread comments to get the jist of it all becomes boring and time consuming. 
How do you know that ‘Judgement day’ is still a long way off yet?
There is not a clean identifiable Organisation here on this Earth for people to associate with.
Tom, I can sort of understand that you defend the Watchtower/GB/ JW Org, but at this point in time it is not 'clean', either truthfully inside, or in the eyes of outsiders.
It needs to be clean in the eyes of outsiders if it wishes to attract those outsiders.  I suppose you could argue that God would guide people in anyway, but would He guide people into an Org that is not (at present time) fit for purpose ? 
The JW Org does not stand out as being God's chosen Org, nor does the GB stand out as being God's chosen anointed to guide it. Many inside the JW Org are critical of the GB and its rules. Many outside the JW Org earthwide are aware of the problems within the Org. Things like the Blood Issue have now become ridiculous with all the 'little bits' that JW's can use. And things like the 'This Generation' situation have now become known outside the Org and are a bit of a laughing stock. Then you get those rather stupid videos about sexual matters, well it makes the Org look like a clown show to outsiders. 
Remember Luke 17 v 1&2. 'It is unavoidable that causes for stumbling should come. Never the less woe to the one through whom they come' 
The JW Org has now become a cause for stumbling. 
I agree with you about the Bible Students / Witnesses identifying many important points and standing up for those points. For instance, how wrong the trinity is,  and that we do not have a soul that 'floats' off to heaven, and other important issues. But those things have been long established now and now the GB are messing with people's heads. 
What is that scripture ?  'The Holy Spirit and we ourselves  favour adding no further burden to you .......... '
So where is that ONE organisation that God can use RIGHT NOW ?  Because the GB has taken the JW Org out of the running. 
Hence it would take time to rebuild the JW Org / Wt, or to create a new Org. But there is still time. The Earth is not yet on destruction time. Yes things are bad but probably a lot of hype too.  God himself knows exactly when to act, when to have people here on Earth ready. I do not think God will bring the judgement whilst there is no clear visible 'Jew' for people  to 'cling to'  
 

As far as the anointed, it’s true, it’s nobody’s business who is anointed or not.   This is BtK opinion.
For my part I would need to know that the leaders of God's servants here on earth were Anointed and inspired of God's Holy Spirit.  It makes sense to me that the leaders need to be both. I do not care in the least if everyone of you on here disagree with me. Who knows, that could make me even more right ...  
As 'Judgement day' is still a long way off yet, God has plenty of time to show the true Anointed and to prove they are inspired. 
He did it with early Christians. Why would He not do it now ?  And I'm still happy with my view of 'ten men clinging to the hem of a Jew'. God, through Christ, will guide willing ones to the true Jew, the true Anointed. But He will do it when He is ready, not before.  

Tom : Well, I think he already has picked, long before he came here, and from our point of view, it is not wise. 
You do make life complicated when you don't mention who you are talking about. 

BTK:  "As far as the anointed, it’s true, it’s nobody’s business who is anointed or not. God will make his final decision when the time comes. On earth, there is only hope."
"Now one thing you can signal out, is the behavior and action of someone calling themselves anointed. For those obvious reasons, those people are only fooling themselves."
 
He just couldn't help making it his business.   Very God-like.  Isa 40:25
 
 
 

Well done Billy, keep on worshiping the GB or maybe pretending to worship them, whatever your motive. 
Quote  : Those early church fathers wanted to have their followers under subjection and influence of their personal teachings.
 And that is exactly the same with the Society  / GB / JW Org.  A good example was the deliberate changing of the meaning of the scripture concerning, the Superior Authorities.  
Add to that, that congregants have always been told 'not to have their own opinions of scripture, but to rely on the W/t / GB / JW Org's opinion of it all.  Quite funny really. You can own a Bible, read a Bible, pray to God, BUT don't you dare have your own opinion of scripture, and even worse it would be suicidal to mention your opinion of scripture to others. 
Quote : That meant, their personal understanding of scripture was law. 
It still is. The GB's understanding has to be accepted by all JW's. 
Why Billy thinks he is being clever by comparing the GB to people on this forum I do not know. Do any of us on here actually want to be leaders ?  I don't that's for sure.  
And as for the GB being leaders, i would say they are more like Dictators. 

And this is how it was and probably still is possible to HIDE Pedophiles in the JW Org. 
Why ? Because it seems people like Anna and others in that Org think YOU MUST OBEY like robots. 
Hence the Elders HAVE obeyed like robots, and we have seen the terrible results. And don't try to tell me the Two Witness Rule wasn't used, because there is enough evidence Earthwide to prove it was. And the Elders, it seems, didn't even question their obedience to the GB, as opposed to the love and kindness they should have shown to victims. 
Why Oh Why do you people worship those 8 men ? They even say they are not inspired and that they err. 
And what is the point of actually having a Bible ? And what is the point of actually being able to pray in person to God and to ask for spiritual guidance ?  Only to be told by your GB and Elders, not to think for yourselves. 
Remember Life of Brian "You're all individuals"  And one guy says "I'm not".  Well it seems you lot are not individuals either.
What did J.T.R. Jr say, something about not being a 'monolinth' well some such word. James said all JW's are different and do things for different reasons. It doesn't seem so here. It seems that you all want to be robots. 
Quote from above comment  " *** w04 10/1 p. 7 “The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth”—How? ***
One who is meek humbly accepts God’s standards in all aspects of his personal life.... " 
Well that is not happening in the JW Org that is for sure.  And when I've mentioned judgingthe JW Org by God's standards I've been criticised for it. If the Society / GB had been meek and humble then the Org would not be in such a mess, and it wouldn't need to be making massive payouts either.  I'll just repeat that line from above comment :-
One who is meek humbly accepts God’s standards in all aspects of his personal life...
 

The 2001 Watchtower stated this well. But what should we do when a mature Christian still does "advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding"?
Seriously, I'm sure we've all seen examples of this. What's the best way to handle it? Ignore it? Go to the person privately? Write a letter?
Another article said pretty much the same thing:
*** w04 10/1 p. 7 “The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth”—How? ***
One who is meek humbly accepts God’s standards in all aspects of his personal life; he does not insist on going by his own views or by other people’s opinions. He is also teachable, willing to be taught by Jehovah. The psalmist David wrote: “[Jehovah] will cause the meek ones to walk in his judicial decision, and he will teach the meek ones his way.”—Psalm 25:9; Proverbs 3:5, 6.
 

True. How can we trust the current "light" they have if it is going to "get brighter" or get replaced by "new light" maybe tomorrow?
"Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. ( ie: the watchtower organisation )" (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)

"Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )

"Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization ( ie: the watchtower ), not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible." (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967, p. 587.)

"All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.( ie: the watchtower )" (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8.)

"So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?  These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? . . . This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197).
 
"commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah … commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah…" The Nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah" - How? pp.58,62
"… commission to speak as a "prophet" in His name…" Watchtower 1972 Mar 15 p.189
"The Watchtower is a magazine without equal in the earth …. This is not giving any credit to the magazine's publishers, but is due to the great Author of the Bible with it truths and prophecies, and who now interprets its prophecies." Watchtower 1943 Apr 15 p.127
"The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. God feeds his own people, and surely God uses those who love and serve him according to his own will. Those who oppose The Watchtower are not capable of discerning the truth that God is giving to the children of his organization, and this is the very strongest proof that such opposers are not of God's organization." Watchtower 1931 Nov 1 p.327

That is a good point Srecko. The audience at the ARC wasn't JWs (and any indoctrinated JW would've probably avoided viewing the ARC recording). That is why Geoffrey Jackson is able to make disingenuous comments like the one Anna brought up. They weren't meant for JW ears. Another that comes to mind is his remark that the GB claiming sole spokesperson status would be "presumptuous." He wouldn't dare say something like that to active members, because it would confuse and disturb them. No, the comments were meant for outsiders that are less familiar with the organization and less likely to question him.
The ARC is not the only time representatives for the organization have taken advantage of the general public's ignorance of JW doctrine and culture. They bend the truth to make the organization seem more open and tolerant than it really is. Another example was when a JW Bethelite stated under oath in a Canadian court that disfellowshipping does not alter normal family relations. We know that to be a false statement, but the organization has no qualms with using shady legal language to muddy the waters. There is basically a public voice and a private voice. Very alarming when the organization promotes that it has "the truth," because there aren't different versions of the truth.

Hi Anna! Sorry for the delay in response. I am a little bit confused what you mean about complete obedience being in the minds of only some Witnesses. The Governing Body spells it out in their literature. Here are some notable examples:
Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same? (w09 2/15 pp. 24-28) "We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah’s approval." (w11 7/15 p.24 Simplified English Edition) "[A mature christian] does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave." (w01 8/1 p.14) I am not sure how much clearer they can be about their attitude. They expect complete trust and obedience in their direction. For Br. Jackson to suggest that JWs would see wrong direction and not follow it is disingenuous. The truth is that adherents have continued to obey the GB throughout its self-admitted history of erring direction.
JWs are literally told that their personal views are valueless next to the direction of the organization: "He [a mature Christian] does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding." (Watchtower 2001 Aug 1 p.14) So, under what circumstances would JWs suddenly become aware that their personal ideas on the Bible have weight? Members are primed to put loyalty to leadership and the group ahead of their personal faith.

Your definition provides a clue as to why the Governing Body cannot currently claim to be the "faithful and discreet slave." This does not mean that they are not well-meaning in their goal to participate as a class of faithful and discreet slaves. And this does not mean that they will ultimately fail to live up to their goal.
(1 Timothy 3:1-7) . . .If any man is reaching out for an office of overseer, he is desirous of a fine work. 2 The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife, moderate in habits, sound in mind, orderly, hospitable, qualified to teach, 3 not a drunken brawler, not a smiter, but reasonable, not belligerent, not a lover of money, 4 a man presiding over his own household in a fine manner, having children in subjection with all seriousness; 5 (if indeed any man does not know how to preside over his own household, how will he take care of God’s congregation?) 6 not a newly converted man, for fear that he might get puffed up [with pride] and fall into the judgment passed upon the Devil. 7 Moreover, he should also have a fine testimony from people on the outside, in order that he might not fall into reproach and a snare of the Devil.
I suppose that Rutherford might not have qualified, based on some of these criteria, and I think most of us would agree that Hayden Covington was a "newly converted" man, relatively speaking. But I think we have excellent reasons to accept the current Governing Body members as qualified overseers, and they therefore deserve respect, double honor, deference, benefit of the doubt, and our willingness to follow their leading example, and, as we see how their conduct works out, to imitate their faith.

That many of us, perhaps most of us, are aware that there have been cases of disfellowshipping when there were ZERO witnesses. As Anna mentioned, it's true that "circumstantial evidence" can be counted as a "witness." But even this type of "witness" has sometimes been ignored in cases of CSA.

I know of a couple of Witnesses who were both disfellowshipped based on the ZERO-witness policy. Both were very good friends of mine, and were about my age. One never tried to be reinstated, and neither are JWs today.
This was 1976. He was about 19, and was considered a spiritually weak, immature brother who had delayed getting baptized until just that year, and his father wasn't a Witness. He began dating a sister, 18, who had just begun regular pioneering. The gossip was tough on her from the beginning because neither her own family or many others in the congregation thought she should date a young, newly baptized, irregular publisher if she wanted to continue pioneering. He was accused of finally getting baptized just so he could date her.
She worked in a hospital in the city on some kind of "candy striper" program that had turning into an internship, and she had to work til about midnight, and didn't drive, and wanted to stay in the city near the hospital. My parents had sold our country house in 1975 and had just moved into the city to rent, so that my mother could also pioneer. I had already moved to another congregation about 100 miles away where my brother had started a business. So my parents would often give this sister my old room in the rented city house.
One night she stayed overnight with the brother she was dating at his home (when his parents were away). She claimed that they hadn't even gone on a date that night, that nothing happened, and it was just for temporary convenience that she remained there after falling asleep. She normally would have come to our house that night and slept in my old room. He also claimed that nothing had happened. They claimed it was one of those "Wake up little Susie, wake up!" situations after both of them fell asleep.
Well, my parents had already informed her parents that she hadn't come to our house that night.  (This was pre-cell phone days.) Her parents ended up finding out she was at the brother's house at around 5 am. She normally got up early from our house and got a ride home in the daytime.
They were disfellowshipped for fornication, even though both of them denied it. They were obviously not repentant because both of them denied it. She had admitted staying at his house. He was the one who tried to get reinstated. He called me at Bethel the next year to ask about what might be done since he had not realized that he could have appealed it. I visited him on a summer off from Bethel in 1977 and he got reinstated within a few weeks after that. His own father WANTED him to stay disfellowshipped because he thought it would discourage him from going back to the Witnesses. He got reinstated, but was bitter about it. I have no idea if anything actually happened that night, but he (and she) always denied that anything at all happened.

Problem with that is, that so many things have been changed in the last 40 years or so that basically if it was in the world it would be breaking the contract. Even words in the NWT have been changed. It's all been discussed on here Anna. Words changed, meanings changed,  rules changed, ah but they call it 'new light'.   'This Generation' anyone ? 

As regards CSA, the org. is not in trouble because of some maliciously and wrongfully applied scripture involving the two witness rule. 
@Anna  You believe what you want and I'll believe what I want ok. 
Many victims have said that they were not believed because they did not have two witnesses to back up the facts they were giving to the elders. Many victims have said they were called liars for the same reason. Some victims have said they were even disfellowshipped because they continued to try to get justice from the Elders and the congregation.  
Carry on watching your stupid television programmes and using that as you form of judgement. I think that is dragging the bottom of the barrel as the saying goes but if it helps you ...........................  
Today, we (JWs) don't execute people obviously
The JW Org executes people spiritually. Well it tries to. It thinks it has the right to. It tries to frighten people into crawling back, begging the Org's forgiveness. 
However God's word says we should serve God through Christ, not through your GB or your Org. 

I disagree .... you lack the perspective that only time and a LOT of varied experiences can give you.
Jehovah's Witnesses management does a LOT of things wrong, but they also do a lot of things right ... that no one else is doing right.  In the Corporate world, a good executive is one who gets 50% of his decisions right ... and of course WHICH 50% makes all the difference in the world.
Would you quit a job at Microsoft, because every other operating system they release bombs out, and drives everyone nutso?   I would not.
The reason God commanded us to be in subjection to the "Superior Authorities" is NOT because they are even right most of the time .... but because even the VERY WORST are better than anarchy.
The fact that we know Jehovah and Christ as they really are gives us a significant edge in having a quiet, peaceful, and prosperous life.
The TRUTH sets us free.
Humans are just nasty, selfish and no-good, so stuff ALWAYS gets lost, in translation.
I don't bitch and moan about what the Catholics, Baptists, etc., ad nauseum do or do not do, because they are a lost cause, and cannot reform.
My sincere hope is that we, do.