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Srecko Sostar

What concept/concepts is behind the term "inspired"?

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Inspired ....spirit-driven.... spirit-guided.....motivated.....to have spirit of....lead up by spirit....to feel that spirit leads us ..... spirit impelled him .... he came in the spirit....sent out by the spirit....spirit did not permit them.....bound by the spirit...he was in the spirit....carried him away in the spirit... and many more other phrases in the Bible.

Why JW's mostly, generally think that "inspiration" is action reserved only to JHVH and Jesus or devil and demons?

"Inspiration" is state/condition of some person soul, mind and emotions.  The biblical / religious state of inspiration comes mainly out of the will of the people. But do you think how this is something that can be  achieved/put on/force upon only by the actions of superhuman powers?

JW's are very occupied with their religion in own life and have specific relationship to this word and have specific (organizational) understanding of the concept about this special word - inspired. They think, I think that they do think :)), about this word only in religious sense and consider how it is about or only about some sort of divinity or divine holiness (or devil evil) in background.

Because they attach great importance to this word in only one direction, they forget that there is also a very powerful influence of another force. It's the spirit of man. JW's must recall themselves more often that people are created on the image of God. And that all people in themselves have a strong spirit (of divine source by birth and genetically inherited). This human spirit is powerful and can inspire other people (earthly spirits) around them. You, as individual can be inspired by people around you or by people about whom you hear about, you are watching, you read about. 

Also it is interesting how some other things can inspire people. For example; nature, music, poetry, stories, events, animals, imagination.

Please, join to this topic and give, express your thoughts. Let your spirit free and let's inspire others :)))

 

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53 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Why JW's mostly, generally think that "inspiration" is action reserved only to JHVH and Jesus or devil and demons?

Actually they don't. They are quite happy with the secular definition of the English word

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However they do believe that the Greek word θεόπνευστος (theopneustos), translated as "inspired of God" is a word used uniquely of the Holy Scriptures. The English rendering used in the NWT2013 is quite  acceptable. It is self explanatory really, as the word literally translates as god-breathed, being a compound of the word Theos, God and pneo, to breathe. 

The word used to describe demonic teachings or utterances is a little different, but the concept of wicked spirits using complicit humans for the transmission of lies and propoganda is an acceptable Biblical teaching.

The use of the English word "inspired" with appropriate qualifiers is quite clear in it's specific application to Biblical concepts as it is also in a variety of secular contexts. The dictionary definition makes these clear.

All such definitions are acceptable and in regular use by Jehovah's Witnesses.  

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It obviously means different things in different contexts.

'All scripture is inspired of God' should mean that all scripture was written under the direct inspiration from God. 

However the question has been raised as to whether the writer was inspired generally or just during the time of doing the writing. 

My point would be that if All Scripture was written under inspiration, then it would also take God's inspiration to understand it. And, if the first century Christian leaders were either inspired generally or inspired when they took specific action, then the 'modern day' Christian leaders would also need to be inspired generally or inspired when they took specific action.

The GB say they are not inspired.  

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We can be inspired to climb a mountain, paint a picture, have a family, etc., by our own mind and spirit.  But, a person can receive  spiritual influence from either an evil spirit or the Spirit from God. 

Now God has revealed these things to us by the Spirit, for the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man that is in him? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who comes from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God. 

We:  those anointed with Holy Spirit.

The spirit of the world:  the earthly, elemental influence of the world. Eph 2:1-3; Col 3:5; James 3:15

13 We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.

This is “inspiration”, being “inspired” by God’s Spirit.  Everyone who is anointed has spirit poured into their heart. Rom 5:5; Titus 3:6,7   They are “inspired”; but, they can bury this inspiration – suppress it, within their heart.  They can choose not to submit to the Spirit, by listening to another spirit – that of false prophets, false teachers whose hearts are “inspired” by the spirit of the world. 2 Pet 3:17 They can also listen to themselves, to their spirit, their understanding, and not what the Spirit of God teaches. Prov 3:5,6; Hos 9:7  They can eventually lose the Spirit of God and replace it with the external demonic spirit from Satan.  James 3:11; 2 Cor 13:5

14 But the unbeliever does not welcome what comes from God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually15 The spiritual person, however, can evaluate everything, yet he himself cannot be evaluated by anyone.

At one point, Jesus “breathed” spirit onto the apostles.  This was before they were anointed. 

Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 After saying this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.”   John 20:21,22

They were “inspired” Rom 5:5; Titus 3:6,7  The Spirit of God takes up residence within a heart. John 14:23;  That person “receives the Holy Spirit”, along with the gift it gives them.  1 Cor 12:4,7; Heb 2:4  It is an outside source that “inspires” one’s actions and thoughts, giving them direction in understanding spiritual things.  It is how God and Jesus speak to us, through those anointed whom Jesus sends.  John 13:20; Matt 10:40

Yet, anyone can be “inspired” or influenced or motivated by either an evil spirit or the Spirit from God.  We are to guard our heart and mind from the sources of evil.  Prov 4:34

Now the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will depart from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons.   1 Tim 4:1

Paying attention to lies and allowing their influence to permeate our spiritual being can become one’s “inspiration”.    The GB say they are not inspired.  We should ask why, if indeed they are anointed.  And, we should consider what influences their thinking.  Is it the Spirit of Truth?  Or, is it the influence of the spirit of the world?  There is some force that inspires their teachings.  If it includes falsehoods of doctrine no longer valid, then these men have been inspired by another spirit.  Matt 12:34  The Spirit of Truth has not inspired men to teach what is on the list of “Beliefs Clarified”, keeping all JWs on a crooked path of darkness.  Not a single glimmer of the light of Christ can be found on that list.  Not one glimmer. John 8:12; Matt 5:16

 I wish JWs desired pure truth, the pure light from Christ.  It is as if JWs do not believe it is possible. To put it crudely, men are yanking your chain, JWs, leading you along with falsehoods, and you don’t even care to discern this deceit; or, stop it from influencing you.  Your leaders are so convincing, that you believe Jesus and the Father are doing the yanking!  

JWs visualize and accept that changed teachings by men are a normal spiritual occurrence. It isn’t normal according to the Spirit of God. A Beast/organization has been given the title of “spirit directed” by a false prophet who admits it is not “inspired” by God. Rev 13:11,14-17  It is directed by demonic expressions – inspirations that were foretold to come against God’s people in the last days.  Rev 16:13,14; 20:9

And you don’t see it.  Isa 6:9,10; Acts 28:26,27

“When the Counselor comes, the One I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father—He will testify about Me. “John 15:26 

“When the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak whatever He hears. He will also declare to you what is to come.”

“He is the Spirit of truth. The world is unable to receive Him because it doesn’t see Him or know Him. But you do know Him, because He remains with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you.  John 14:17,18

THIS IS WHAT THE GB DOES NOT HAVE  AND WHICH WAS PROMISED TO COME - THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH.   And they admit it.  

 

 

 

Pearl Doxsey – “Eye Salve, Humility and Repentance” 4womaninthewilderness

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Well, as Charles Taze Russell said (heavily paraphrased) in the first issue of the Watchtower, which had his byline "C.T.R.", as the author .. "The Truth is the Truth, no matter what the source... If Satan told you the Truth, it would still be the Truth".

A similar thought was expressed in the Dr. Seuss book, "Horton Hears A Who".

2019-06-15_012236.jpg

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12 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

If Satan told you the Truth, it would still be the Truth.

An example is this Satan's statement recorded here:

"So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time.  Then the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish."

Luke 4:4-6
 

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Inside WTJWRG Institution one thing is of crucial importance. Who are those people who have authorization to govern, rule, lead this organization and people who are members/believers? Who are those people who represent JHVH and Jesus and their Will?

In this WT article authors tried to explain history of this.  

    Hello guest!

Why this article is interesting (again) in connection to topic? Here is some quotes from pages of this article:

CAN YOU EXPLAIN?

In the first century and today, how have those taking the lead among God’s people been . . .

empowered by holy spirit?

assisted by angels?

guided by God’s Word?

.... Jesus had given his followers a commission: “You will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the most distant part of the earth.” (Acts 1:8) How could they possibly complete that assignment? True, Jesus had assured them that they would soon receive holy spirit. (Acts 1:5) Still, an international preaching campaign required direction and organization. To direct and organize his people in ancient times, Jehovah used visible representatives.

Famous paragraph 12:  The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. 

As we can see from box in WT magazine under question Can you explain? author AVOID to use direct word "Inspired" and instead this explicit sort of spirit manifestation as it is commonly viewed while reading Bible (for example, to write holy scriptures, to tell something as prophecy or command from God, to heal the sick....etc) author put word - empowered by HS. And now author give factual example from 1 century:  

Holy spirit was poured out on all anointed Christians, but it specifically enabled the apostles and other elders in Jerusalem to fulfill their role as overseers. For example, in 49 C.E., holy spirit guided the governing body to make a decision regarding the issue of circumcision. 

Author highlights 2 things. First is ROLE of OVERSEEING. And second is about MAKING DECISIONS. In contrast or continuation to this  1 century example, author of article later emphasized this:  

In 1919, three years after Brother Russell’s death, Jesus appointed “the faithful and discreet slave.” For what purpose? To give his domestics “food at the proper time.” (Matt. 24:45)......

Evidence of holy spirit. The holy spirit has helped the Governing Body to grasp Scriptural truths not previously understood. For example, reflect on the list of beliefs clarified that was referred to in the preceding paragraph. Surely, no human deserves credit for discovering and explaining these “deep things of God”! (Read 1 Corinthians 2:10.)

Here we have just statements of author who firmly say that FDS aka GB been appointed by Jesus in 1919. But another thing is something what call on more alarm. As Evidence of holy spirit is, situation when this Body grasp something as Truth under holy spirit helping or empowering

In this explanation one thing is very questionable and somehow danger. In period from 1919 (we shall not talking about 1 century GB or about Angel Assistance today) this entity who "share" food under title: Bible Truth, with supposed help of holy spirit, in fact they had  spread "Fake Truths", they later changed into "Real Truths".  Some doctrines they  produced in few steps as yes-no-yes ... truths. Here we comes to possible conclusion how reason for that errors, according to this article, was not in Human Representatives of Jesus here on Earth. No, reason and cause for that is in holy spirit who has "empowered" them in that confusing way and direction.

Because other two elements in this equation (assisted by angels +  guided by God’s Word) was not been sufficient and powerful enough to correct wrong direction made by empowering influence of holy spirit. :)))) 

Here we see how "blame" for errors and imperfect food can be found in the same reasons why food can be good and eatable too, after some period of time (in refrigerator :))), of course. The way how this article try to prove the credibility of GB for task of sharing the food,  becomes nonsensical.

But, pay attention to this: 

empowered =

having the 

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    Hello guest!
 or 
    Hello guest!
 to do something  
    Hello guest!

having the knowledge, confidence, means, or ability to do things or make decisions for oneself                      

    Hello guest!
 

Here we see how this definition changed our view on issue and article. Why they used word EMPOWERED in connection to spiritual food? In fact, according to Dictionaries, WT magazine talk about Power of GB Over People. Here it is not ISSUE about Food Quality, Truth or Lie, Perfection or Imperfection. IT IS ALL ABOUT CONTROL.  

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20 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Well, as Charles Taze Russell said (heavily paraphrased) in the first issue of the Watchtower, which had his byline "C.T.R.", as the author .. "The Truth is the Truth, no matter what the source... If Satan told you the Truth, it would still be the Truth".

Charles Taze Russel, whom the Bible Students cling to.  Unless I'm mistaken, his “Studies in the Scriptures” seems to be their second Bible. 

The Watchtower buries his teachings, but exalts the man. 

    Hello guest!
  (Beginning at 1:16)

I view both takes as hypocritical. 

Russell:  “While it is true that the white race exhibits some qualities of superiority over any other, we are to remember that there are wide differences in the same Caucasian (Semitic and Aryan) family; and also we should remember that some of the qualities which have given this branch of the human family its preeminence in the world are not such as can be pointed to as in all respects admirable...
The secret of the greater intelligence and aptitude of the Caucasian undoubtedly in great measure is to be attributed to the commingling of blood amongst its various branches; and this was evidently forced in large measure by circumstances under divine control.
Zion's Watch Tower (July 15, 1902), pp. 215-216

 

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20 hours ago, Outta Here said:

An example is this Satan's statement recorded here:

"So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time.  Then the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish."

Luke 4:4-6
 

If Satan can speak truth, so too his ministers, transformed into  "ministers of righteousness".   2 Cor 11:3,4

If Satan can speak a lie and call it "truth", so too his ministers, transformed into "ministers of righteousness".

These "ministers" have received all glory and  authority over the "House of God", the anointed ones; just as Satan promised.  

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Witness said:

Russell:  “While it is true that the white race exhibits some qualities of superiority over any other, we are to remember that there are wide differences in the same Caucasian (Semitic and Aryan) family; and also we should remember that some of the qualities which have given this branch of the human family its preeminence in the world are not such as can be pointed to as in all respects admirable...
The secret of the greater intelligence and aptitude of the Caucasian undoubtedly in great measure is to be attributed to the commingling of blood amongst its various branches; and this was evidently forced in large measure by circumstances under divine control.
Zion's Watch Tower (July 15, 1902), pp. 215-216

Genetics works EXACTLY the same way for all living things.  The wider and deeper the gene pool, the better the quality of ALL DNA based life forms.

What CTR said is certainly politically incorrect by today's Snowflake Standards,  but I, after carefully reading these words, would have to totally agree with them, as being incontrovertibly true.

My first wife and her sister and a brother were born with Cystic Fibrosis, a truly awful death guaranteed, where every day, you die a little bit at a time, until you can no longer breathe, and after years of painful torment, are released , usually with a heart attack from the struggle, before age 30.

I have my own set of problems, but she died in 1982. ( ...LOoooong story ...).

We decided to NOT have children.    Too high of a risk to future generations.

Genetically, with my "problems". I was of inferior genetic stock, and she was of inferior genetic stock,    Like soup stock, you get out of it what you out into it, and neither one of us wanted those genes continued.

I am ONLY talking about genetics ... not intrinsic value, here.

By the way ... this disease, Cystic Fibrosis is EXCLUSIVE to marshmallow white Caucasians.

So I thought about this a great deal, and learned basic genetics, as all I knew was from reading Robert A. Heinlein books, such as "Methuselah's Children", and "Time Enough for Love" .... and went searching for a woman that had a little bit of EVERYTHING in her genetic makeup.

I found one in Peru ..... Caucasian, Spanish, Peruvian Indian, Negro, etc.

It worked EXACTLY as I anticipated, and my three children are POWERHOUSES, any way you want to measure it. Also as an added plus!, they have a "built in", year around permanent tan, that I have tried to get, but with fading results.

I suspect they are embarrassed to be seen with me, as I cannot compete.

Genetics works EXACTLY the same way for horses, mosquitoes, vegetables, fruits, dogs and cats .... AND HUMANS.

It is ARROGANCE to think that past genetic "encounters" do not affect peoples, nations, and races in a progressive manner with multiplying effects.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

IT MEANS OVER TIME, IT'S CUMULATIVE

....sigh ..... if only the stupid would JUST be smart enough to not breed.

Jehovah gave a LOT of attention and instruction to the Jews ...  even ordered them to go far afield to Assemblies of HIS people (not any others),, where presumably young men and women would meet others from a widely diverse gene pool.

If you have the opportunity to swim in the gene pool .... you get better results if you do not swim in the shallow end ... or more to the point ... your PARENTS did not.

 

 

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On 6/15/2019 at 8:41 AM, Outta Here said:

"So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time.  Then the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish."

Luke 4:4-6

I have question: In what moment, period of time and under what circumstances was all this authority handed to devil? Next is: what "all" in fact means, to what extension, to what level? 

Does this quote, made by satan and written by human (under inspiration), suggest how Almighty God HANDED His Own Authority (full or partial) to devil?? In other words, does JHVH with all knowledge about future and people, humankind, gave to satan licence to deceive, to torture, to kill, to ruin and to destroy life and everything else on Earth, as he wish and like ??!! In case of Job He done exactly that (except death).   

In next step we have another quote made by Jesus and written by human (under inspiration) - 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.  

WTJWORG confirming doctrine how devil has all Power and Kingship over all Earth, Kingdoms and people, also above angels in heaven, and it seems, my opinion, also Universe space, partially or somehow else. At least, satan was in the Heaven with his influence in spiritual space and perhaps physical space too, until famous year 1914.  

It is interesting how this verses about Power over Earth, and Heaven, were written in similar time in two gospels. By that this two Sons were/are Two Kings over same Things. If so, idea how Jesus began to be King in 1914 is not in harmony with his claim about:  All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 

In both cases, about wording "authority", something missing. About what sort of authority is about? And for what period of time?

By this two Bible verses it looks how One Father gave same or similar Authority to both of His Sons ??!! Does someone have some thoughts about it? :)) 

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I have question: In what moment, period of time and under what circumstances was all this authority handed to devil? Next is: what "all" in fact means, to what extension, to what level? 

Does this quote, made by satan and written by human (under inspiration), suggest how Almighty God HANDED His Own Authority (full or partial) to devil?? In other words, does JHVH with all knowledge about future and people, humankind, gave to satan licence to deceive, to torture, to kill, to ruin and to destroy life and everything else on Earth, as he wish and like ??!! In case of Job He done exactly that (except death).   

In next step we have another quote made by Jesus and written by human (under inspiration) - 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.  

WTJWORG confirming doctrine how devil has all Power and Kingship over all Earth, Kingdoms and people, also above angels in heaven, and it seems, my opinion, also Universe space, partially or somehow else. At least, satan was in the Heaven with his influence in spiritual space and perhaps physical space too, until famous year 1914.  

It is interesting how this verses about Power over Earth, and Heaven, were written in similar time in two gospels. By that this two Sons were/are Two Kings over same Things. If so, idea how Jesus began to be King in 1914 is not in harmony with his claim about:  All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 

In both cases, about wording "authority", something missing. About what sort of authority is about? And for what period of time?

By this two Bible verses it looks how One Father gave same or similar Authority to both of His Sons ??!! Does someone have some thoughts about it? :)) 

I do often wonder why God would cast the Devil down to the Earth.  Surely there were plenty of other places God could have put the Devil. 

Then you get this thing about free will. But there is no free will. Because you either serve God or you are serving the Devil. 

But it is strange that God loves humans but he sends down a 'roaring lion' to devour us. 

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It is interesting how this verses about Power over Earth, and Heaven, were written in similar time in two gospels. By that this two Sons were/are Two Kings over same Things.

One more thing makes this Authorization and Transfer of Power complex.  

In Romans we have:  For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.              In Colossians we have: For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.  He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 

By this verses, and perhaps some more, we see how He, Jesus Already has ALL Power and Authority from some far point in the past time ( Day One or similar) much before (long ago) any sort of rebellion described in Scriptures. 

Well here arise another question about voluntarily made decision of giving up of Own Authority (from The Word  aka First Born, Jesus) and His permission that His Power, Authority over All Things will be given to The Third in Hierarchy (i guess third) even in limited scale.    

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I do often wonder why God would cast the Devil down to the Earth.  Surely there were plenty of other places God could have put the Devil. 

I am just doing this from memory, but if memory serves ... Satan was cast down to the VICINITY of the Earth.

Jehovah does not live in this Universe, current best guess being about 30 billion light years in diameter, and expanding.

Simply put ... Jehovah lives in a non-"arrow of time" Universe on the "other side" of the Big Bang.

He is from "everlasting to everlasting" which can only happen in a universe that has no beginning, and where time happens all at once.

That means that "Earth" is to be thought of as "dirt", or physical things, as found on a Periodic Table, not the planet.

EVERYTHING you see in the night sky, and everything that can be seen, is "Earth", where we do or someday MIGHT live.

Jehovah lives in "Heaven", which has a completely different set of physics.

Time operates completely different on the other side of the "Big Bang".  OTHERWISE ... Jehovah had a beginning.

A good thought experiment is this:  If mankind had bases on Jupiter's moons, or had mining operations in the Asteroid Belt ... would they be out of Satan's sphere of influence?

Obviously not ... and mankind has already been to the Moon, many times, and we have about 9 robots running around on Mars.

Notice I base these arguments on reason and logic, and solid reality .... in order not to get into a "dueling banjos/dueling scriptures" scenario where a rebuttal would tour the Multiverses, but not address what is actually being said, here by me.

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Then you get this thing about free will. But there is no free will. Because you either serve God or you are serving the Devil.  

Certainly there is free will ... all you can manage in whatever its is that is your hearts desire .... for good .... for evil ... or for misadventure.

I used to jump out of perfectly good aircraft, KNOWING in less that two minutes I could be dead .... but I did it anyway.

EVERYONE has freedom of will .... if they can manage it.

NOBODY has freedom of consequences, unless it is pure, dumb luck.

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

But it is strange that God loves humans but he sends down a 'roaring lion' to devour us. 

I also have a great love for Humanity ... but often its PEOPLE I CAN'T STAND !

I have gotten over it ... but for many years well after I became one of Jehovah's Witnesses ... everytime I heard or read the word "Japanese", I thought "Atomic Bombs!"

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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I also have a great love for Humanity ... but often its PEOPLE I CAN'T STAND !

I have gotten over it ... but for many years well after I became one of Jehovah's Witnesses ... everytime I heard or read the word "Japanese", I thought "Atomic Bombs!"

I still have a strong dislike for Germans, As WW2 ruined my life from before I was born. (I know that sounds crazy)

And I suppose I'm still racist. I'm not interested in mixing with people from other countries. But like you 'it's people that i can't stand' too. 

I've been asked if i dislike black people and my answer is I dislike everyone unless given a good reason to like someone. 

I'm kinda glad guns are not legal here in the UK. :) 

I think part of trying to serve God has to start off with being honest with oneself. Then one has to know one's own faults and capabilities. I have no problem talking with anyone, it does not mean I like them. 

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He is from "everlasting to everlasting" which can only happen in a universe that has no beginning, and where time happens all at once.

Well I presume God created time as we know it. It is only 'as we know it' because 'man' has divided it and subdivided it, but before man started measuring it, it was happening. It's quite strange to think that before time, before Earth etc, there was God, the Word, the Angels living in another dimension. 

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41 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Can people be inspired to do the devils work? Certainly! You only need to see the comments here, and the distortions of scripture to see the negative course of action.

I challenged you several times before to provide just ONE scripture that I had misinterpreted .... and you choked, and were unable to do so.

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1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Nice try James. How about you, own up as a coward to what is meant when I state " You only need to see the comments here" that doesn't necessarily mean you with scripture rather than witness, John and Srecko. Get off that high horse mister, you're looking denser every day with your posture and ramblings of a madman.

You are PROJECTING again, Billy, but it does have entertainment value ... the only downside is that with your irrational vitriol, it puts stress on your system, particularly the brain, and the projector bulb will prematurely pop! .... and go dark.

Since you are already a legend in your own mind ... if you can arrange to have a stroke while typing here, you can become a legend in your own time!

 

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Can people be inspired to do the devils work? Certainly! 

Yes, you only have to look at the GB of the Watchtower / JW Org, and their lawyers and their wicked Elders and others that commit Child Sexual Abuse. You only have to watch those stupid videos too, to see they are not inspired of God. 

And then read how many times they change scriptural meanings. And how they actually change words in their Bible to suit their own purpose. 

Oh yes, the GB are inspired by the Devil. Calling themselves the 'Faithful and Discreet slave' and telling other Anointed that they do not need to contact each other or have a personal opinion on scripture.   

And it seems that 8 million others are also inspired by the devil to support such goings on. 

Tell me, were the Nation of Israel inspired by the Devil when they offered their children to Molech in the fire ? 

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Some of the posts here are thoroughly offensive and bigoted and seem to be bringing the forum down to the level of a mere exchange of personal "flaming" messages.

Moderator, @The Librarian , someone ! The forum has a minimum level of standards to prevent a complete loss of credibility. Please moderate!

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Are you suggesting the Watchtower is misappropriating a core doctrine written in scripture?

2 Timothy 3:16-17 New King James Version (NKJV)

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [

    Hello guest!
]instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 New English Translation (NET Bible)

16 Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the person dedicated to God may be capable and equipped for every good work.

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I think we all may be guilty of taking a scripture out of context purely for our own purposes. But I'd like people's view on this particular scripture please.

BTK seems to find it important and asked if the W/t have misused it. 

However I have previously pointed out that this scripture was written before all 66 'writings' were completed, AND that ALL SCRIPTURE had not been brought together as one 'book'.  

It is therefore my opinion that the scripture, here in Timothy, was relating to the Hebrew writings. Otherwise it was prophecy.

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24 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

Some of the posts here are thoroughly offensive and bigoted and seem to be bringing the forum down to the level of a mere exchange of personal "flaming" messages.

Moderator, @The Librarian , someone ! The forum has a minimum level of standards to prevent a complete loss of credibility. Please moderate!

Oh dear, another baby throwing his toys out of the pram.

@Outta Here If you don't like the heat then stay out of the kitchen it's SIMPLES. 

This is an OPEN forum. You might be able to get into the 'secret' forum if you ask them nicely :) .... 

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4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And it seems that 8 million others are also inspired by the devil to support such goings on.

Wow! Is there something holding you back from saying what's really on your mind?

My father and grandfather attended KM school in Pittsburgh back in the early 70's about a year apart from each other. So I would often hear them compare notes as to what Bro. Schroeder had said on a topic. Schroeder was still of the "Rutherford" school when it came to how the entire world was "inspired" of Satan, which influenced his speech about who would die at Armageddon and why we don't celebrate Christmas, Easter, etc.

As part of their training, Brother Schroeder would give them questions that the "Press" might ask them, so elders could practice answers that were "cautious as serpents yet innocent as doves" so to speak. For example:

Question: Do you think the Pope will be destroyed at Armageddon?

This gets lots of snickers, and a few brothers willing to say, 'Of course he will be destroyed!.' So Brother Schroeder says that, well, we all know the answer, but what do we tell the Press? He recommended saying:

Answer: "He'll get what he deserves!"

This gets uproarious laughter, and must have been treated as if Jesus had just said "Pay back Caesar's things to Caesar." It becomes kind of a joke between my father and grandfather, so that they only needed to say: "He'll get what he deserves!" when hearing about other infamous happenings in the world (e.g., Watergate, Nixon Impeachment, US Supreme Court on Roe v. Wade, Spiro Agnew).

I don't know whether Schroeder himself mentioned people with Christmas trees, but I remember being a bit taken aback that my father and grandfather even applied it for a while to people with Christmas trees, people singing Christmas carols on TV, etc., even though they started to say it in a kind of joking way, knowing that the phrase was getting old.

When you mentioned that the Society knew that Christmas was wrong before 1900 but kept celebrating until the late 1920's it reminded me of this. Imagine if Armageddon had actually come in 1915, or 1918, or 1925, as they sometimes expected. In effect, my father and grandfather were saying that Rutherford and all the people in the entire Watch Tower Society would have been destroyed. I can imagine how we, as an organization, would have felt if we knew that certain people or groups who had already stopped celebrating Christmas were looking at the Watch Tower Society at the time and saying "They'll get what they deserve at Armageddon."

When it comes to all this judgmental speech, here in this forum, I try to remember to test it by thinking what we would say if we were guests in a Mormon forum, or a Catholic forum. Would you, for example, go into a Mormon-centric forum right now and say that 15 million Mormons (LDS) are all inspired by Satan. (And yes they have had trouble with child sexual abuse and cover-ups.) And because a high percentage of Catholics support the Pope, would you go into a Catholic-centric forum and say that 1 billion Catholics are inspired by Satan.

To me, it seems a bit over the top, even though you could probably find a near equivalent problem in the Mormon Church or the Catholic Church for every problem you see among Jehovah's Witnesses.

I'm not one to tell you to stop saying whatever you want to say, as you probably feel like a good part of your life was wasted among Jehovah's Witnesses, and I'm sure this drives a lot of the "tone." I am reminded of the "tone" that Rutherford took against the clergy, especially the Catholic hierarchy, and he could rationalize that he was protecting the world from Catholicism -- just as you probably think you are trying to protect the world from Jehovah's Witnesses, or at least to protect a few other Jehovah's Witnesses from themselves.

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@JW Insider  quote "Wow! Is there something holding you back from saying what's really on your mind?"

What is it BTK says ' I'm frightened of no man' :) 

Well neither am I, when I'm behind this keyboard :) .... 

I'm sorry but that's how I relate it.   If 8 million people are serving the GB and it's W/t and JW Org, then they are serving the Devil, as the GB etc are not serving God or Christ. 

I've no need to go into all the reasons that this is easy to see.  Simple. BY THEIR WORKS YOU WILL KNOW THEM.

And the things now being revealed about the GB and its organisations, and it's legal departments, are proving that they do NOT have God's approval. So who's approval do they have ? Satan the Devil's of course.

There is no middle ground, God or Devil. You serve one or the other it seems. 

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6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

However I have previously pointed out that this scripture was written before all 66 'writings' were completed, AND that ALL SCRIPTURE had not been brought together as one 'book'. 

It is very significant that numbers 6 and 66 are numbers in relation to Bible. Because Bible said how 6, 66 and 666 are numbers in context to something evil, something that is in opposition to God. Who inspired or what inspired people who put 66 letters, books as parts of Bible? 

The Catholic Bible has 73 Books. (7 more than the Protestant Bible) The Protestant Bible has 66 Books. GB decide to accept Protestant Bible. Were GB inspired, sorry, i mean - were GB guided by spirit  in this decision?

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9 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It is therefore my opinion that the scripture, here in Timothy, was relating to the Hebrew writings. Otherwise it was prophecy.

Technically, you are correct. The Watch Tower Society publications come very close to saying the same thing in the NWT Study Bible when discussing Romans 1:2:

*** nwtsty Romans Study Notes—Chapter 1 ***
1:2
the holy Scriptures: Here referring to the inspired Hebrew Scriptures. In harmony with this verse, the New World Translation contains in its title the expression “the Holy Scriptures.” Other terms used in the Christian Greek Scriptures for this collection of inspired writings are “the Scriptures” and “the holy writings.” (Mt 21:42; Mr 14:49; Lu 24:32; Joh 5:39; Ac 18:24; Ro 15:4; 2Ti 3:15, 16) At times, the terms “Law” (Joh 10:34; 12:34; 15:25; 1Co 14:21) and “the Law and the Prophets” (Mt 7:12; Lu 16:16) are also used in a general sense to refer to the entire Hebrew Scriptures.—Mt 22:40; see study notes on Mt 5:17; Joh 10:34.

There were no collected Christian Greek Scriptures at the time. Except in the sense that the Greek LXX was the Christian Bible as well as the Jewish Bible in that time period. The LXX was a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures (into Greek). Paul and all the Gospel writers quoted from the LXX. It is rare for any "NT" writer to ever quote from the "OT" in a way that shows preference for the Hebrew (as we know it today) over the LXX Greek.

Of course, the letters of Peter also treat Paul's letters as inspired, and of "life and death" importance. If we accept that the Christian "church" is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, then we will, by extension, include the "NT" as inspired along with the "OT." Of course, it's not merely an internal claim that they are inspired, otherwise any text could have made the claim. It's the acceptance that inspired scripture can only be included if it is accepted as the words of apostles and those who had the approval of apostles during their lifetime. It also must harmonize with the rest of scripture. Where there is or was a question as to the harmony or authorship, we have a useful directive from 1 John 4:1. What we have really done of course, is accept the earliest collected manuscripts that were already accepted by consensus by the earliest known "Christian fathers" in the 2nd and 3rd century.  Their criteria matched their beliefs about apostolic authorship and supportive contemporaries of apostolic authorship.

By accepting the choices of the early "church fathers" we are actually putting faith in the fact that Jehovah made sure that sufficient manuscripts meeting the necessary criteria were saved and sufficiently "revered" to remain true to the purpose of scripture, uncorrupted. The scriptures were copied so often that we can now trace back (sometimes) to within a hundred years of the death of the last apostle (usually a bit over 200 years) and find that there was a high consistency to the copies of manuscripts, and enough manuscripts to remove any corruptions that did find their way in.

 

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By accepting the choices of the early "church fathers" we are actually putting faith in the fact that Jehovah made sure that sufficient manuscripts meeting the necessary criteria were saved and sufficiently "revered" to remain true to the purpose of scripture, uncorrupted. The scriptures were copied so often that we can now trace back to within a hundred years of the death of the last apostle and find that there was a high consistency to the copies of manuscripts, and enough manuscripts to remove any corruptions that did find their way in.

But now I'm hearing on here that the GB / W/t / JW org have changed scripture or words in scripture. Or written it is such a way as to suit their own purposes. 'Brazen conduct 'for instance.  And is 'torture stake' in the original; scriptures ? 

And then we have the misuse or wrongful meaning of scriptures such as Superior Authorities. 

So God has done a fantastic job of preserving scriptures only to have it all messed up because no one is inspired by God's holy spirit  to use scriptures properly. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

But now I'm hearing on here that the GB / W/t / JW org have changed scripture or words in scripture. Or written it is such a way as to suit their own purposes. 'Brazen conduct 'for instance.  And is 'torture stake' in the original; scriptures ?

These can all be separate topics. The WT's NWT Committee is a lot like all committees put together for the purpose of translating the Bible. They never claimed to be inspired, but they had certain criteria in mind for the NWT. One was to be accurate and consistent and also allow a high degree of literalness in the original. Sometimes this literalness even preserves Hebrew idiom. And yes, they had certain ideas about accuracy in mind when choosing words like "torture stake" instead of the Greek "stauros."

Translating the Greek word stauros as "torture stake" is not any worse, and might even be better, than translating it as "cross." It depends on the accuracy of the research that went into knowing what a "stauros" really was at the time the Bible was written. The Romans never consistently used two pieces of timber in the shape of the small letter t or T as is often depicted. They definitely did use that form around the time of Jesus, and probably used it a lot, but not consistently. It still might not have been the most commonly used shape of a stauros in Jesus' time. But there is no sure way to know exactly what the shape was for Jesus' execution, because a stauros could take on many shapes. The main thing we know about it is that it was wooden, fashioned from a tree, stake, board, timber, etc., and that no matter what the shape it was used to bring about a torturous (and shameful) death. Even if we knew for sure that the particular stauros in Jesus case was "cross-shaped" it still would not necessarily mean "cross" is the best translation, as it might not get across the full range of meaning implied in the original word "stauros."

Same for the word "brazen." The complaint, as I've heard it, is that it hasn't been specifically (and consistently) defined as to how it will be applied in judicial cases that come before a judicial committee (of elders). Unfortunately, this is the same problem with the original word in Greek, so maybe the translation is just fine. It's not much different than the word "immoral" which will have a range of meaning depending on who's doing the judging.

And yes, bias is going to happen with all translators. If you have decided that the parousia is a 105-year-long event you will look for rules in Greek that would allow you to say something happens "during" the parousia instead of "at" the parousia. If you are trying to be consistent you should follow through and see if "during" works in all those other cases where you might have more naturally translated the Greek to the English word "at." If the range of meaning supports your own view of a doctrine, you will naturally drift toward those definitions that allow for your doctrine, even if they are not as common. If you had to do this in 10 different places, as our NWT translators did, then it should have given them pause to wonder if they were handling the rules of Greek correctly. But if you are a true believer in the doctrine you will more likely just be comfortably satisfied that the Greek actually "supports" your unique teaching.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And then we have the misuse or wrongful meaning of scriptures such as Superior Authorities. 

That's interpretation that can go wrong even when the translation is just fine.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So God has done a fantastic job of preserving scriptures only to have it all messed up because no one is inspired by God's holy spirit  to use scriptures properly. 

Really? You must think the Bible is full of all sorts of esoteric ideas that are required for some rituals that must be performed according to a specific type of knowledge. That's a gnostic way of looking at Scripture. The Bible is actually full of simple ideas that make us happy and unburdened and free. It was easy to understand the Law in Israel that had hundreds of individual rules. Then Jesus taught us how to transition from that old view to a view based on undeserved kindness and love of God and neighbor. This is not something only the anointed can understand. It's not so far up there that it's hard to reach. It actually brings a true conception of God down to us. 

  • (Romans 10:5-10) . . .For Moses writes about the righteousness that is by the Law: “The man who does these things will live by means of them.” 6 But the righteousness resulting from faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ that is, to bring Christ down, 7 or, ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.” 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your own mouth and in your own heart”; that is, “the word” of faith, which we are preaching. 9 For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.

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Really? You must think the Bible is full of all sorts of esoteric ideas that are required for some rituals that must be performed according to a specific type of knowledge.

Well the GB seem to think so, as they say THEY are the FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE and only THEY can give instruction to God's people. 

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21 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Well the GB seem to think so, as they say THEY are the FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE and only THEY can give instruction to God's people. 

Just because they are not THE faithful and discreet slave of Matthew 24:45, it doesn't mean that they aren't part of A class of faithful and discreet slaves, just as all of us should be. It has nothing to do with whether one is anointed or not. It's just a matter of whether we are being discreet and faithful as required when waiting for judgment at the parousia. In fact, as Jesus said, no one knows the day and hour of the parousia, because it would come as a surprise, similar to how the judgment quickly swept people away in Noah's day where people took no note of a warning. And similar to how the judgment on Sodom quickly swept people away with no particular warning at all.

So if they feel the responsibility of a faithful and discreet slave, then great! These are elders who should then take on the responsibility to feed Jesus' little sheep. And they are definitely working on that very effort. What they tell us to do is rarely anything different from read the Bible, accept an obvious understanding and explanation -- which is probably correct 98 times out of 100. I'd guess that, in spite of difficulties in Bible translation, the number of verses that ended up perfectly well translated was an even better ratio than that.

Also it's not correct to say that they claim only THEY can give instruction to God's people. Every publisher is allowed to present the good news of the Kingdom to those who may become God's people. Every speaker from a platform can be giving instruction to God's people. Every older sister who encourages a younger sister, every younger brother who encourages an older brother, etc. All the congregation feeds one another by building one another up and encouraging one another.

I bring up the point about the parousia, even though you didn't, because it is that specific teaching that makes the GB believe it is absolutely necessary for the GB to take on the responsibility of a specific faithful and discreet slave for the purposes of feeding the entire worldwide congregation of God (since about 1919). It still doesn't mean that the rest of us should shirk our own responsibility to also be faithful and discreet slaves helping to build up the congregation of God. So it doesn't need to interfere with our Christianity. As Paul said, there will be sects among you. For most Witnesses, who prefer not to question, and not to make sure of all things,  it probably makes them more comfortable this way.

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7 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Why haven't you voiced your opposition before about JTR that has far exceeded being offensive.

Check and see what comments I have made regarding ill-advised behaviour and statements of others in the past. 

The offensive behaviour individuals display toward each other on  forum space is for themselves to sort out generally. The parameters and guidelines are there for all to apply. Moderators can be appealed to by protagonists if they so wish, and of course moderators can intervene as they see fit.

However, slanderous and offensive statements made about millions of decent people worldwide  exceed the boundaries of acceptable use of this forum, be it open or closed, that is if those guidelines listed above are still in force. If they are not, then let those who made them rescind them.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Yes but you do not set them

They have already been set.

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Some of the posts here are thoroughly offensive and bigoted and seem to be bringing the forum down to the level of a mere exchange of personal "flaming" messages.

Moderator, @The Librarian , someone ! The forum has a minimum level of standards to prevent a complete loss of credibility. Please moderate!

I agree (somewhat).  

I have no interest whatsoever in attacking people I will never meet, and soon, like all of us ... toooooo soon we will all be dead, and the words we type will evaporate forever.

However, when I get hit on the shoulder and a grenade falls into my lap (figuratively speaking), I pick it up and toss it back where it came from.  Most of the time the "sender" forgot to pull the pin, but I consider the evil  intent, so I pull the pin, and send it back.  The amount of lies told about me, and things I have been accused of need to be addressed, AND ANY LIAR AND SLANDERER THOROUGHLY EXPOSED ... which I have done.

Common, ordinary self defense.

It's an exceptional person who can be hit on the head with a hammer, and reply "OH RANDOM FLUCTUATIONS IN THE SPACETIME CONTINUUM !".

However, it does not bother me in the least, as the corrosive interactions merely strip away the veneer of fantasy we all tend to accumulate.

Now THAT'S entertainment!

Too many rules, and it gets as dull as a cardboard knife.

 

 

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8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Also it's not correct to say that they claim only THEY can give instruction to God's people. Every publisher is allowed to present the good news of the Kingdom to those who may become God's people. Every speaker from a platform can be giving instruction to God's people. Every older sister who encourages a younger sister, every younger brother who encourages an older brother, etc. All the congregation feeds one another by building one another up and encouraging one another.

Also it's not correct to say that they claim only THEY can give instruction to God's people.

If you allow me to say, somehow it can be correct to say that THEY thinking how only THEY can give Life Saving Instructions, and no one else but THEY. :))

 

Every publisher is allowed to present the good news of the Kingdom to those who may become God's people. Every speaker from a platform can be giving instruction to God's people.

Yes, they can present, but inside boarders that is Authorized by THEY.

 

Every older sister who encourages a younger sister, every younger brother who encourages an older brother, etc. All the congregation feeds one another by building one another up and encouraging one another.

"Encourage" is broad term. In relation to Religious Matters, and what is said previously, perhaps this specific sort of "encouraging" you mentioned, is about encouraging To Stay Firm in Temporary Teachings, until some of this temporary dogmas would not be changed by THEY.

:)) In the end, it is not question about who is inspired, but who is Guided by THEY. 

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8 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

In a scholarly world. There are many levels of understanding. There is no one set of rule. However, scripture does contain certain rules. This is why Jesus never became a formal rabbi with scholarly works. He didn’t need to, just like we don’t need to. Here is but a taste of the many variations.

He, Jesus, didn't need formal education to be a formal rabbi. You sad well, because Jesus has never become Formal Rabbi. And He obviously has never made plans to be one of them. :))

But he was .... What? Inspired by spirit ? or Guided by spirit?

If we said how He was "Inspired", than we agree with WTJWORG unique way of interpretations about word "inspired".

 If we said how He was just "Spirit Guided", than we agree with WTJWORG way of idea what mean to be Guided But Not Inspired. By THEY It means how Jesus read "Bible" every day and rowing about spirit behind the word, and with angels help he was been successful in all that.

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@JW Insider  Just because they are not THE faithful and discreet slave of Matthew 24:45

So you agree that they are telling lies then ?  You agree that the GB are not the Faithful and discreet slave ? 

It has nothing to do with whether one is anointed or not.

I totally disagree with you on this. Those not anointed need to be 'clinging to the skirt / hem of a 'JEW' ' 

The JEW is spiritual of course, a class of people, the Anointed ones. 

Srecko has covered a lot of what i would say but i will add to it anyway. 

Also it's not correct to say that they claim only THEY can give instruction to God's people. Every publisher is allowed to present the good news of the Kingdom to those who may become God's people. Every speaker from a platform can be giving instruction to God's people.

The GB use a Writing Department to write the literature. The publishers might as well be just leaflet distributors. The 'carts' used to give away literature, only offer what the GB / Writing dept print.  Publishers are told not to have their own opinions. i know remember, I've been there, done that. So a publisher offers a pretend 'Bible study'. it's pretend because it is actually a study of a book written by the GB / Writing Dept, not a proper study of God's word.  ( At a later date this book will be banned and replaced by another book, with different lies in, when so called 'new light' appears ). 

The speakers from the platform are just puppets. They are given strict outlines written by the GB / Writing dept. So once again the GB rules over the congregations. 

The Elders are given a rule book 'Shepherd the Flock', which they must obey without question. Once again written by the GB / Writing dept.

 For most Witnesses, who prefer not to question, and not to make sure of all things,  it probably makes them more comfortable this way.

Yes, just puppets. They just push out the lies from the GB / Writing dept. They serve the GB and it's two 'orgs'.  The JW Org & the Watchtower.  These 'witnesses' are not God's witnesses, they are witnesses for the GB and those organisations. 

Doesn't God tell us through his word to, 'Make sure of all things' ?

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So you agree that they are telling lies then ?  You agree that the GB are not the Faithful and discreet slave ?

Let's say that it's 1924 and you truly believe that there are many sound Biblical reasons to anticipate that the resurrection of the "Old Testament" faithful men of God will start in 1925. You begin to believe it so strongly that you say there is more evidence for it than there was for 1914, and that there is more evidence for it than Noah had that there would be a Flood. If you didn't truly believe it, why stick your neck out for the embarrassment you'd face in just a few more months? Why risk losing the entire organization you worked so hard to lead.

I'd say that Rutherford, the "chairman" and primary member of the "Governing Body" that had begun in 1919, must have truly believed in 1925. Similarly with several remaining mistakes --still based on a faulty set of chronology beliefs-- the current GB are not lying, they are mistaken.

Did you, John, never say something that was not true, because you really believed it was true at the time, and then found out later that it wasn't? Were you lying?

And for the second question, Yes, I agree that the GB are not the FDS. The members of the GB should be some of our best examples of faithful and discreet ministers. But there is no single group called the FDS. When Jesus said, "Who really is your neighbor?" he was not prophesying a class of people to be called the "Neighbor" or "The Good Samaritan." When Jesus gave an illustration about a man whose son asks for bread and the father gives him a stone, do you think he was prophesying a specific group of people who give stones for bread?

(Matthew 7:9, 10) 9 Indeed, which one of you, if his son asks for bread, will hand him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, he will not hand him a serpent, will he?

Who really is the good father in this illustration, the one who gives the proper food his son asks for, or the one who gives him a stone or a serpent instead?

Who really is the judge who had no respect for God in the illustration of a judge who gets pestered again and again to give justice to a widow? Who is the widow? (Luke 18:1-7)

These illustrations are not so different from the one that includes the FDS. Who really is a faithful slave when the master goes away, and the servants don't know how long he'll be gone? Is it the one who keeps the household running smoothly, and continues to serve good food at the proper time, or the one who starts taking all the food for himself, and gets drunk on the wine?

Both illustrations are simple. One was about how Jehovah answers prayers, and one was about what sort of persons we ought to be while waiting for the parousia, even if it takes 1,000 years, or comes tomorrow:

(2 Peter 3:11-14) . . .consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, 12 as you await and keep close in mind the presence [parousia] of the day of Jehovah, . . . 14 Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace.

It's not about whether we claim to be anointed or not, it's about being faithful until the end. Most of the FDS illustration was about what happens to unfaithful slaves of different classes, not what happens to faithful slaves, so we know it was really a lesson to warn all of us, "everyone," about the kinds of problems that Jesus' parousia delay could cause, and the heavy responsibility to "watch ourselves."

(Luke 12:45-48) . . .But if ever that slave should say in his heart, ‘My master delays coming,’ and starts to beat the male and female servants and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that slave will come on a day that he is not expecting him and at an hour that he does not know, and he will punish him with the greatest severity and assign him a part with the unfaithful ones. 47 Then that slave who understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do what he asked will be beaten with many strokes. 48 But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I totally disagree with you on this. Those not anointed need to be 'clinging to the skirt / hem of a 'JEW' ' 

Who says this didn't already happen when Jesus walked the earth, or when Peter spoke at Pentecost and began to open up the hope to people of all languges, or when Peter and then Paul (Jews) began to preach to the nations, and the word was spread 10-fold, then 100-fold, then 1000-fold and more? Paul explained how the Jewish beginnings of Christianity were important to the transition that leads to Christianity for the nations. This was a wonderful fulfillment that has occurred and continues to occur. We need not wait for a specific new fulfillment, imo.

 

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@JW Insider This last paragraph of yours really hit home to me. I hadn't even considered those points. Thank you.

Back to the top of your comment :-

Quote  and that there is more evidence for it than Noah had that there would be a Flood. 

Noah's direction / instruction came directly from God. And the direction proved true. 

13  After that God said to Noah: “I have decided to put an end to all flesh, because the earth is full of violence on account of them, so I am bringing them to ruin together with the earth. 14  Make for yourself an ark

    Hello guest!
 from resinous wood.
    Hello guest!
 You will make compartments in the ark and cover it with tar inside and outside. 15  This is how you will make it: The ark should be 300 cubits
    Hello guest!
 long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high.
 16  You will make a window for light
    Hello guest!
 for the ark, one cubit from the top. You should put the entrance of the ark in its side
    Hello guest!
 and make it with a lower deck, a second deck, and a third deck.
17  “As for me, I am going to bring floodwaters
    Hello guest!
upon the earth to destroy from under the heavens all flesh that has the breath of life.
    Hello guest!
 Everything on the earth will perish.
    Hello guest!
 18  And I am establishing my covenant with you, and you must go into the ark, you, your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives with you.

So you are saying that Rutherford was spoken to directly by God ? No I don't think you are.  You are saying that Rutherford took it upon himself to pretend to know what the future was. And he was wrong. Now for him to believe personally was one thing, but to put it forward as 'fact' was a lie. Because he knew he was not inspired by God's Holy Spirit. 

Did you, John, never say something that was not true, because you really believed it was true at the time, and then found out later that it wasn't? Were you lying?

Yes many times when i was a servant of the JW Org. And yes I was lying. Because I did not 'make sure of all things' first.

 But there is no single group called the FDS. If you know this then you are saying that the GB are lying. Are you saying that God has given you more insight that God has given to the GB ? If it is plain to you that the F&DS is not a small group of men, then why isn't it plain to the GB ? 

It's not about whether we claim to be anointed or not, it's about being faithful until the end.

Once again I will differ with you on this point. Didn't the Israelites once 'demand' to have an earthly king ?

Humans need to be guided by other humans it seems. And it makes sense to have an earthly part of God's organisation. But this earthly part needs pure guidance. If God sees it as good to have men to lead the way here on earth, then imo  God will provide men who are pure in heart. And once again imo those men will be the Anointed ones, brothers of Christ. Sons, to receive an inheritance.  

Your idea of being faithful until the end, but faithful to whom ?  If we reject the GB and it's orgs, that does not mean we reject God and Christ. The GB and it's orgs have proved themselves to be not worthy of trust. They say they are not inspired of God's Holy Spirit. In fact they have proves such by their actions. Even their lawyers tell lies in courts. 

The GB has shown no love to victims of CSA and seems to have caused more problems than they have solved in many ways. But that is just my opinion, oh and possibly the opinion of thousands of others :) 

 

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2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I'd say that Rutherford, the "chairman" and primary member of the "Governing Body" that had begun in 1919, must have truly believed in 1925. Similarly with several remaining mistakes --still based on a faulty set of chronology beliefs-- the current GB are not lying, they are mistaken.

Did you, John, never say something that was not true, because you really believed it was true at the time, and then found out later that it wasn't? Were you lying?

You highlight very good, important thing.

If somebody truly believe in some idea, own idea or idea from other source, or if somebody "read particular idea" from other people words, statements, views and so on... then, if he individually spread such idea to other people in "good faith", he is not "lying", but he can be one in a chain of those who unknowingly/unconsciously spreading misleading/mistake. Because he thinking about that same (false) thing as truthful and real, as something good and worth to have.

What happened when this person repeatedly doing this "unconscious spreading" of same Principe (Principe of various errors in different time point, through his life time)? If he never come to flash of light and come to be "conscious" about such repeated (spiritual) behavioral pattern in himself and in other to whom he show respect and trust, than he is deceived and blind to see. 

But if source of errors and if the receiver of the errors continue to doing this, and in same moment something inside them/him sending warning signals, this is time to make A/The Stop (or simple to STOP). Because if he didn't ...it can be said how from that Point he/they begins to spread a lie, on purpose /even with various levels of power and strength of persuasion.         

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3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Yes many times when i was a servant of the JW Org. And yes I was lying. Because I did not 'make sure of all things' first.

We, ex JW's, were all been part of this, and told to people in preaching service things that we now consider untrue and in fact lies (no matter about motives of those who generate some teaching, doctrine, dogma, instruction). 

As to "make sure of all things". I think, at first thought, how this process in individual, personal work (study, deeper thinking, searching ...etc) about something, some religious subject, has been limited by/because of our exposure to WTJWORG influence, our naive trust in people who "knew more", our believe and too much confidence in interpretations made in publications. Well, in fact we are making our selves to be sure of - in all things presented in WT magazines and books :)))   

To do this "make sure" work, JW's should go in all directions for searching to answers and for pro et contra argumentation. It is Wrong Idea/Perspective, how JW already found The Truth, so Why going uselessly to spend time and effort in additional verification, when Bible Scholars already done research in Betel? So, when from platform they say, by quoting Bible verse - "make sure of all things", they don't encourage you to go for INDEPENDENT sources, but to reading more and more of WT publication.

Somehow, John, You and I, get out from this Circle. :)) and some other people here too, to not forget to tell. :))

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@Srecko Sostar You are right. The only research i did when i was a JW, was in JW books and magazines. It was like being brainwashed.  

What i cannot understand is some people on here know that the GB and the Watchtower / JW Org are wrong, but they stay in the JW org.  They must have their reasons for staying in but i could not do it. 

 

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and by whose standards.

By God's standards and they are the only standards that matter. And I never said 'everyone' I said some people. 

God has granted us all the ability to reason and to judge, otherwise we would be robots. We all make judgements every day I would imagine. We might call them decisions but those decisions arrive by our making judgements on matters or even judgements on people. 

I had to make a judgement when I was deciding to leave the JW Org. Three months research, not three minutes. So it was a judgement i made, not in haste, but in taking time to think about, and pray about, my part in an organisation that i knew in my heart was wrong.  

Some people on this forum actually agree with me on some of my findings, and they even give me fresh information that i knew nothing about, but they prefer to stay inside the JW org. So 'God has not given me any more that he has given others' in this respect. Many people know about the GB's / JW Org's failings and deliberate lies, but some of those people prefer to be part of it. I know not why. 

you will ultimately be judged by God more severely more so for leading his children astray

It is your opinion that JW's are God's 'children', nothing more than your opinion. 

 

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48 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Explain, How God exalted you to a position of great responsibility that you will ultimately be judged by God more severely more so for leading his children astray by making such a definitive claim of superiority that god himself has not granted any of the above by their own actions and behavior. Please! Enlighten me on this marvel, thanks!

Explain, how God has exalted YOU to a position of great responsibility, that YOU will ultimately be judged by God more severely for leading people astray, by making your own definitive claim of superiority and righteousness over everyone else on this forum...that God Himself has not granted YOU by your own actions and behavior.  

Please.  Enlighten me on this marvel.  

You can live with Watchtower's sins.  Many of us cannot.   

Don’t envy the evil
or desire to be with them,
 for their hearts plan violence,
and their words stir up trouble.  Prov 24:1

 

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FOXNEWSFLASH !  -  June 18, 2019  -  Sydney Australia

In a hidden saltwater lake suspected to have thousands of miles of flooded  underground lava tubes to the Pacific Ocean,   in Central Australia, near Olympic Dam,  known for its high yield Uranium deposits, Forensic Anthropologists discover living precursors to modern day Kangaroos.

Stunning high resolution photos indicate these may have been the Kangaroos that left Australia approximately 4,000 years ago, and swam the Pacific Ocean to mainland Asia, and then hopped many thousands of miles across plains, forests , mountains, swamps, raging rivers and amber waves of grain to the Middle East to become passengers on Noah's Ark.

When asked, Dr. Walter Brotherman, of the Sydney Theological Institute stated "This proves the Bible record is correct, as currently understood by everyone in Christendom,  and that supposed "solid evidence" that Australia has never been deluged is completely false."

Kangaroo-Dolphins-Hopping-in-Outback-72028.jpg

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17 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

"Encourage" is broad term. In relation to Religious Matters, and what is said previously, perhaps this specific sort of "encouraging" you mentioned, is about encouraging To Stay Firm in Temporary Teachings, until some of this temporary dogmas would not be changed by THEY.

Encourage is intended to be a broad term. But it is not separate from "Religious Matters." We humans often tend to be foolish and think that turning doctrines into some philosophical/exegetical  exercise is somehow more important to Jehovah than justice, mercy, love, humility, etc. The specifics of certain complex teachings or prophetic interpretations are far down on the list of what is important. For the most part those things are not even "religious."

As James said: "True religion means looking after orphans and widows in their troubles, and not being like the rest of the world." (James 1:27 - paraphrase)

(1 Corinthians 12:29-13:9) . . .Not all are apostles, are they? Not all are prophets, are they? Not all are teachers, are they? Not all perform powerful works, do they? 30 Not all have gifts of healings, do they? Not all speak in tongues, do they? Not all are interpreters, are they? 31 But keep striving for the greater gifts. And yet I will show you a surpassing way. 13 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a clanging gong or a clashing cymbal. 2 And if I have the gift of prophecy and understand all the sacred secrets and all knowledge, and if I have all the faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 And if I give all my belongings to feed others, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I do not benefit at all. 4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous. It does not brag, does not get puffed up, 5 does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. 6 It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with.

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10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

If you know this then you are saying that the GB are lying. Are you saying that God has given you more insight that God has given to the GB ? If it is plain to you that the F&DS is not a small group of men, then why isn't it plain to the GB ? 

Not lying. Mistaken. Mistaken for almost the same reason that any of us --either currently, or in the past-- have believed the GB are a small group of men. When I believed it, I was not lying. It was just a mistake I was making at the time. I would guess that there are easily hundreds or thousands of Witnesses who notice the same thing in their Bible reading as they went through the illustrations of Jesus in context, and have reached through many of Paul's letters. Perhaps others will have already noticed that a leading member of this same Governing Body, F.W.Franz, once argued very coherently and scripturally that we should NOT see the Governing Body as a small council or committee like those apostles and older men in Jerusalem.

I don't think I have more insight than the GB, I was convinced by the Scriptural argument of F.W.Franz. But there's a good reason why it would not be plain to them. Long before the Governing Body was defined in 1971, the 7 officers of the Watch Tower Society already realized that they were responsible to represent the entire remnant of the anointed on earth, and found themselves soon leading hundreds of thousands of Witnesses and interested persons. No matter what you think, there IS something special about this particular religion. It is unique as a teaching organization in many ways. I've gone into the specifics in the past, but for now, I'm just making a statement of opinion shared by millions of other JWs too.

The GB who find themselves in positions of great responsibility for an organization that is believed to be specifically prophesied about in the Bible, would surely expect that their own position of responsibility must therefore also be prophesied in some way. This doesn't mean that they think they are inspired, only that God's inspiration must have foreseen, not only the fact of this organization, but also some special guidance for its leadership, too. They could have found this in "apostolic succession" as some other religions do. They could have found it in some special new "inspired" prophet as some religions have. They could have decided that a leader was the "angel to the church in Laodicea." They could have seen it in the "the Jew" with 10 men grasping their hem. But they see it in an illustration about servants feeding other servants. Compared to the ways many religions look to give "authority" to a select few, this is actually commendably low-key. But it's still a misuse of the verse. It's an inconsistency based on the March 15, 2015 Watchtower that shows why it is wrong to turn a parable into a prophecy.

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10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It's not about whether we claim to be anointed or not, it's about being faithful until the end.

Once again I will differ with you on this point. Didn't the Israelites once 'demand' to have an earthly king ?

Humans need to be guided by other humans it seems.

But Jehovah didn't think they needed a king. It was a concession to their hard-heartedness. But a fully Christian system should be different. It transitions us away from the fleshly needs of Israel, and commends itself to our heart and spirit.

  • (Jeremiah 31:31-33) . . .“Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will make with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant. 32 It will not be like the covenant that I made with their forefathers on the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, ‘my covenant that they broke, although I was their true master,’ declares Jehovah.” 33 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.”

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5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

If you really want to understand what the term means and how it became part of scripture, you need to begin with understanding the role of Nebuchadnezzar and then, on how it came to be in the NT.

Probably a more likely place to start would be the example of Joseph who was a servant, and when in Potiphar's house, Potiphar's wife tried to seduce him into being unfaithful. But Joseph, as a servant in the house, was always discreet and faithful, and ultimately was granted "authority over all things." Daniel was another example of someone taken as a prisoner who proved himself faithful.

5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

It doesn't take just reading material but feeling what that material is ultimately conveying through context. To a TRUE Christian, it takes the same faith and understanding that Jesus had.

Couldn't agree more.

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2 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I got it, ?Winsider. When, I write “FBM” that’s you without having to further taint the name of God. Or how about the first one, ?Winsider Remember it’s not just what was written in the 10 commandments, Since, I’m sure you will not volunteer the removal of such a stumbling block that you seem to take pride in misusing God’s name with your avatar.

WOW!

BTK46's  THERAPIST'S  FANTASY  .jpg

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3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:
6 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I got it, ?Winsider. When, I write “FBM” that’s you without having to further taint the name of God. Or how about the first one, ?Winsider Remember it’s not just what was written in the 10 commandments, Since, I’m sure you will not volunteer the removal of such a stumbling block that you seem to take pride in misusing God’s name with your avatar.

WOW!

Ya got me on that pacifist issue, BTK46.  

When a bully is flailing about, I defend the ones being falsely accused BY YOU.

...   silly me.

...   and Billy ... the works are ALREADY gummed up .... my "crime" is I know about it.

 

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13 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Well, you made the argument kind of difficult to understand

 

On 6/18/2019 at 12:01 AM, BillyTheKid46 said:

This is why Jesus never became a formal rabbi with scholarly works. He didn’t need to, just like we don’t need to.

You made comparison of this kind: He didn’t need to (learn in schools), just like we don’t need to.

Well, let put subject again: Because, according to your words, JW's in general and especially all elders with GB as Top Management not need formal education in religious matters, because as you made statement, this people is like Jesus already equipped with needed credentials, questions are: Does this way of getting knowledge, understanding and good fruits is because that all was been result of Inspiration by spirit OR is it result of 3 step model (empowered by spirit? assisted by angels? guided by God’s Word?) ?

Because, WTJWORG explains that this two is not the same. And here you said how  Jesus and JW's archived all this spiritual quality and quantity in the same manner/same way.

I found this view, if it is yours too, as wrong. Was Jesus "Empowered" or "Guided" or "Inspired" by holy spirit. In fact, because Jesus came to Earth from Above as Firstborn who already have ALL Power and Authority and All Spirit, in fact He can spread that Spirit as holy spirit onto, into, on others around Him.

What is difference when WT magazine say: empowered by spirit and guided by Word? But  also using terminology "we are not Inspired by spirit but we are Guided by spirit?!  

Who or What doing what  ??? influence on GB? Somehow, according to explanation they made, to Them, sometimes inspired and guided have different meaning, sometimes the same. And in this WT magazine they put new terminology - empowered.

Very confusing, but perhaps they have such intention to confuse people.  :)))

 

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I like that BTK recognises this :  Quote BTK  Not understanding scripture is no excuse before God.

Thank you Billy you have just condemned the GB and the Watchtower Soc' and JW ORG. 

With your own words you say it. Remember how misused the scriptures relating to the 'Superior Authorities', and 'This Generation' ?

Remember how the Bible Students / JW org said Armageddon was coming in 1914 and even printed magazines to show it 

 

What Watchtower said 
prior to 1914
What Watchtower claims it said 
prior to 1914
"The year A.D. 1878 … clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord - …" 
    Hello guest!
"The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honesthearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus’ presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914." 
    Hello guest!
"But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble. 
    Hello guest!
"Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things." 
    Hello guest!

 

For many decades, it was plainly stated that Armageddon would come whilst people born prior to 1914 were still alive.

    Hello guest!

You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth (1982) p.154

At the 2010 annual meeting, John Barr presented another new understanding of the generation. 97 year old Barr was an apt choice to deliver this talk, being the last of the Governing Body born before 1914. He explained the generation is now to include 2 groups whose lives "overlap" since 1914:

"John Barr ... twice read the comment: "Jesus evidently meant that the lives of the anointed ones who were on hand when the sign began to be evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of the other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation." We do not know the exact length of "this generation," but it includes these two groups whose lives overlap. Even though the anointed vary in age, those in the two groups constituting the generation are contemporaries during the part of the last days. How comforting it is to know that the younger anointed contemporaries of those older anointed ones who discerned the sign when it became evident beginning in 1914 will not die off before the great tribulation starts!" Watchtower 2010 June 15 p.5

If it is truth that a generation includes an "overlap" with those born in 1914, why did Jehovah allow the Watchtower to teach for decades that a generation would end within the lifetime of a person born prior to 1914? Why allow it to introduce several new and contradictory teachings since 1995? Surely this proves Watchtower teachings are not directed by God.

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John old Boy, you have just pointed out the obvious, that everybody, including myself missed!

BillyTheKid46 ... using HIS OWN LOGIC ( ...and that is a stretch ...) not only shot himself in the foot ... again ... but with his OWN LOGIC, condemned the Governing Body as being reprehensible and clueless.

I do not agree with the concept that he espouses ... as I believe that justice must be tempered with mercy for blind pawns (John 9:41), but his hatred for anyone that does not agree with him has caused him to bend over and start cannibalizing himself, starting with his wounded feet.

One thing you did NOT do is irrefutably document BTK46's arguement FOR the "prosecution".  You really need to learn how to do screen clips.  May I recommend "FastStone Capture", the same one I recommended to JW Insider.

Being the kind and generous Barbarian that I am,  here is the irrefutable proof documentation. in .JPG form, so you can download it as two "units" for future reference.

 

BTK46  SHOOTS  SELF  IN  FOOT.jpg

BTK46 NAILS THE G.B.  .jpg

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... and the WHOLE 1914 Generations thingy can be resolved by writing down an HONEST answer to the ONE question:

" When Jesus was talking eyeball to eyeball with the Apostles and others, when he said "This generation will not pass away until all these things occur ...", how did THEY understand what Jesus was talking about?"

... ALL ELSE is delusional theological fantasy.

 

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15 hours ago, JW Insider said:

We humans often tend to be foolish and think that turning doctrines into some philosophical/exegetical  exercise is somehow more important to Jehovah than justice, mercy, love, humility, etc.

justice, mercy, love, humility, etc.

This beautiful things you mentioned ... for sure are something that is effect, output (or in Bible terminology Fruit of Spirit) of Inspiration made by Spirit on Human. And also it  is something that can Inspire people around you or around somebody who shine with this beautiful wealth/richness.

And as i mentioned before, we can look, I am looking, on this in two way.

One is: Divine Inspiration in Direct way and in Real time moment made by Power Above.

Another is: Divine Inspiration that already Existing in us, in our blood in our cells, from long time ago and waiting for our permission, our will,  the right moment of our readiness in our deep soul, to be expressed and to be seen on day light. 

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3 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Yes, well, since you are using the same tactics as James and FBM, it is of no surprise you attempt to twist my words to benefit some delusional ideology. But, if I were to judge as you, I would condemn you and all your kind, such as ?winsider and James. comfortmypeople for accepting your kind of distortion.

I just used your own words Billy. I haven't twisted them, just quoted them.

They are your own words Billy.  Not understanding scripture is no excuse before God 

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30 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Jesus, didn’t need to learn anything formal. He received God’s Holy Spirit to once again remind him of who he was before. His was lead to continue his father’s work on earth.

Ok, but in His case, it seems how He wasn't need to follow advice "He gave" 2000  years later to His FDS aka GB in WT magazine, the 3 step model: empowered by spirit - assisted by angels - guided by God’s Word?. You using gospel reports to show how He Received holy spirit. When someone Received is that same as to be Inspired?? Received=inspired??!! I don't mind and can join you in this idea. But, problem stays with GB and WTJWORG. Did they Receiving holy spirit in the same way as Jesus did? Again, you state how JW's and GB not need formal education because THEY also like Jesus are Received, are Guided, are Learned, are Empowered, are Lead by Spirit of God.

If it is so and If we want to believe that it is so...., how then this same spirit who acts in the same way with the same effect on people of blood and flesh (Jesus and FDS) bringing so different results?? Why you or somebody else want to eliminate negative results "of god's spirit" that is visible after GB left the conference room at Wednesday, and releasing error teachings for Jesus sheep worldwide?? 

And please, don't say; Jesus was perfect, GB is not. Because if you think so, you would claim, in fact, how holy spirit is not strong enough to help imperfect people. :))

 

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1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Since that was not my intent but yours, its called twisting of other peoples words. The same disgusting tactic used by ?winsider and James. So, let's not pretend you didn't understand the intent

It's quite clear from your words that they are INTENDED to apply only to your agenda.

If all four legged animals are horses ... then a cow must, by your logic, be a vegetable.

Your Billy-think is fully evidenced by calling JW Insider "?winsider",  and thinking his screen name is an affront against God.

Using that same logic, Jehovah's last name is .ORG.

 

 

BTK46 NAILS THE G.B.  .jpg

Billy blovates.jpg

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Like the old saying goes "What is good for the Goose, is good for the Gander".

You cannot have SELECTIVE application of that bloviating statement, Billy.

It's either universally true, or it is not true.

You cannot apply it to people you disagree with ... yet excuse the Governing Body.

Having double standards is NOT the same as having twice as many standards.

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You cannot have SELECTIVE application of that bloviating statement, Billy.

It's either universally true, or it is not true.

And i would say it applies even more so for the GB that say they are the 'Faithful and discreet slave' and have made it their business to control over 8 million people's lives. 

Anything i may say can be either agreed with or dismissed with no consequence to the person that agrees or disagrees.

Not so in the JW Org, whereby if a JW disagrees with the GB they can be disfellowshipped and lose everyone and everything they love.

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Script quotes are meant for intelligent people that understand scripture.

No good for the GB or JW Org then. They don't even know what a generation is :) .

Not for those that use scripture for their own evil end. 😋

Are now you are talking about the GB and W/t and JW Org.   Just look at the two witness rule. 

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20 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Jeopardy question.

For who?

This all conversation is about GB statement; We are not inspired, Our study on Bible is not inspired, Our articles are not inspired. We can err.

Than ... How they could/will be leaded, guided, learned by God and/or by his Spirit if even little piece, little measure of spirit through Inspiration was not/are not "shadow" them?   If they not receiving Inspiration from God...All their hard spiritual work is of human source, and result of human inspiration. 

Or we can go to use this logic.

If 20%, 10% or 5% of teachings in WTJWORG is indisputable truth, reason for that is because holy spirit revealed that truth to this human. Revelation comes through Inspiration, i guess.  Or, somebody can give other perspective?!

If 80%, 90% or 95% of teachings in WTJWORG is harmful chatter, reason for that is .....:)))) we all know the answer, or at least can give a assumption. :))

 

 

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According to Billy-Think, you can change the definitions of words to mean whatever the Society's Writing Department WISHES them to mean.

Or in the words of Bugs Bunny ... "ERRRRRR .... What's up Doc?"

Or, in the photocopied words of that desperado, bandito wanna-be of the Old West ....

Billy blovates.jpg

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OF COURSE IT WILL NEVER WORK WITH YOU BILLY!

You have WATCHTOWER DERANGEMENT SYNDROME (WDS).

Your entire perspective on life, the Universe, and Everything, is NOT based on TRUTH ... it is based on your agenda!

To prove this (to everybody BUT you) ... I need merely to point out that you did NOT refute John Butler's observation WITH A RATIONAL ARGUMENT ....

48 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

It might work with dense people like James and John, just not with me. 🤗

... only preparing for a stroke with your DISAGREEMENT OF IT.

You vigorously disagreed with YOUR OWN WORDS, in order to defend your agenda!

 

BTK46 NAILS THE G.B.  .jpg

Billy blovates.jpg

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6 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Let me know where in scripture Jesus wasn’t criticized? Let me know where in scripture, some apostles didn’t ERR before Christ?

Let me know where in this forum i wasn't criticized? You doing that almost in every comment.  :))

And why you had need to changing @JW Insider name, for example? Because of one letter. Do you think how letters J and W is holy if it is together (JW), and how people who have J and W in name have to believe in particular dogmas? Why, please, why you downsize level of discussion in personal animosity toward this or that person? If you consider some of us not worth to hear because of "stupidity" or because "lack of spirituality" or because of "someones secret agenda" then please, change the strategy. This what  you doing, Not Working.

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6 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Once again Srecko, what you are doing, is giving yourself excuses to justify your own animosity toward a group of men vested, only to do God’s work.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

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@BillyTheKid46 Quote " I criticize those that think they have the right to criticize the Watchtower. "

What is the Watchtower to you ? What exactly does that word Watchtower mean ?

Who runs that Watchtower, who is in charge ?   

The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania is a 

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, 
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 headquartered in 
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. It is the main legal entity used worldwide by 
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 to direct, administer and disseminate doctrines for the group and is often referred to by members of the denomination simply as "the Society". It is the parent organization of a number of Watch Tower subsidiaries, including the 
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 and 
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.
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 The number of voting shareholders of the corporation is limited to between 300 and 500 "mature, active and faithful" male Jehovah's Witnesses.
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 About 5800 Jehovah's Witnesses provide voluntary unpaid labour, as members of a 
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, in three large Watch Tower Society facilities in 
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;
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 nearly 15,000 other members of the order work at the Watch Tower Society's other facilities worldwide. 

Governing Body

In 1976, direction of the Watch Tower Society and of the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide came under the control of the Governing Body, reducing the power of the society's president. The society has described the change as "one of the most significant organizational readjustments in the modern-day history of Jehovah's Witnesses."

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Following the death of Knorr in 1977, subsequent presidents of the Watch Tower Society have been 

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 (June 1977 – December 1992); 
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 (December 1992 – October 2000), 
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 (October 2000 – 2014) and Robert Ciranko (incumbent).
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 Adams and Ciranko are considered "helpers" to the Governing Body, which retains authority over the corporations.
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If this info is correct then the Watchtower is run by the Governing Body. So as bosses of the W/t they are responsible for lies, mistakes, failures, etc of the W/t, and the GB are responsible for lives, and deaths of many people. 

Your idea of using Watchtower as a cover up,  does not work. The Watchtower is known as two things.

1. An Organisation / Society.

2. A magazine.

Which ever you see it as it still has to be run by humans, and have leaders. Those leaders are the Governing Body.  Therefore that GB are responsible for any good or bad that it produces. 

 

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34 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

This is why I criticize those that criticize the Watchtower, Srecko. There is no end to the stupidity here. If memory serves, By corporate law, the GB are responsible for the Watchtower. This of course, doesn't give an accurate accounting of what the role of the GB really is. That's why the Watchtower is run by "many" corporations independent of each other. 🤔

I'm surprised someone as dense as James doesn't know that. An obtuse person like John just flaps his lips to see what will stick. What's even funnier, ?Winsider wouldn't correct such stupidity. 😉

That's why people like James and John are dense legends in their own minds. Meaning, there is nothing between the ears. 😂

That took you a lot of words to say nothing billy. 

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1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I believe  that honor belongs to you. You have said nothing since you started posting. Just meaningless rhetoric from a disgruntled member that can't get his facts straight. Don't become a teacher. You'll only embarrass yourself even worse. Just like a child often does without the proper guidance of a parent.

You are the one with the name of a child, Kid. Pretending to be a tough cowboy. Go polish your guns kid. 

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@Srecko Sostar You were and or someone was debated on this before. Christians in general are Prophets not Inspired, and they're spirit led.

So any Christian, in this sense, is a prophet, a proclaimed of God's Word, a preacher and minister of the good news gospel and the Messianic Age.

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4 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

No problem Srecko. As long as you know your stupider than me and uneducated about scripture just as much as most people here, We understand each other. 😏

You mean like in a movie serial Dumb and Dumber :)))))

dumb and dumberjpg.jpg

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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

@Srecko Sostar You were and or someone was debated on this before. Christians in general are Prophets not Inspired, and they're spirit led.

So any Christian, in this sense, is a prophet, a proclaimed of God's Word, a preacher and minister of the good news gospel and the Messianic Age.

Thanks for comment, but I disagree :))

Every Prophet must be "Inspired" for reason to be called A Prophet. If he is not then he is Not a Prophet. In this context when using word Prophets, i guess, is about Bible Prophesies. And as such, Bible Prophets was Inspired by JHVH. Every True Bible Prophets was INSPIRED by JHVH, as they state. But every False Bible Prophets was also Inspired. Don't you think the same? Question is by who? By devil spirit or by Own spirit?

Perhaps such person (Christians in general) is just someone Who Repeat Other People Words. And if he, in this repeating of Old Prophets Words going Further, to Let Say: Interpret Prophet's Words by giving Explanation and Time of fulfillment or Way how Words would/will be Fulfilled... than such person or Christians or Organization or Church is .... what?  

..... Spirit Led?? :))

As I said in preamble, we can speaking (for now) about 3 sort of spirit: divine, demonic and human. AND ALL THREE have the same quality, they can INSPIRE. And by that reason when GB of WTJWORG said how they are not Inspired, they said wrong. Because they are Inspired ... by some of this three spirits, and also in variation of influence made by this three spirits on people in one Organization.   

  

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47 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

2 Timothy 3:14

You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from what persons you learned them - nwt

Well now, JW's have a little problem in carrying out this advice, recommendations. How so? Because during the life time of each JW generation, it has changed more than one teaching, or interpretation of that teaching. If JW member want to stay, to stick with "Bible teachings" from some past period of time, he will be spiritually retarded, has not kept pace with the carriage :)))) For JW members this Bible verse is almost impossible to follow, even in some Basic Doctrines of small or big importance.  

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

This can only be seen in retrospect. Humans are subjected to either good influence or bad influence. In both cases, by inspiration. Romans 8:28

An example of this, questioning the oath you swore loyalty by baptism before God.

 

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.” Romans 8:28.

This can only be seen in retrospect. Of course, how else but in retrospective, for many of us. :))

...all things work together for good to those who love God,.. In freedom of thinking and interpretation of this Inspired Words, I would like to say how for some of us, this sort of good can be our living WTJWORG because maybe we are called according to His purpose  to get out. 

An example of this, questioning the oath you swore loyalty by baptism before God.  I hope that you know difference between Oath i gave in 1977 and Oath other people gave from June 1985. ??!!

 

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On 6/18/2019 at 7:45 PM, JW Insider said:

But a fully Christian system should be different. It transitions us away from the fleshly needs of Israel, and commends itself to our heart and spirit.

Just piping up here; I agree of course, but I'm sure you will admit that some sort of organizational structure is also necessary, especially with a view to the preaching activity...

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9 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Did you ever attend standard education?

Like to ask, what is, according to you "standard education" in 140 year history of WT Society? What, how much  of those "standards" that people have to learned before to be called as suitable for "everlasting life", was been rejected and still now this same project/process continue despite all those big claims in the past and still now, how that all before and today is "God's Truth" ?? 

Please do not compare "worldly education system" that JW's think is based on satan manipulation, with "theocratic education system" that is based on GB uninspired errors or still perhaps - Inspired Errors  !!  

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Comparing two unequal education systems makes no sense at all.

It is a complex problem, as we have TRUTH, not available, anywhere else ... and that TRUTH, when not contaminated, represents freedom and life itself.

There is a difference between a compendium of facts, ideas and concepts in a school or universities'  science books, which cumulatively changes as more knowledge is acquired .... and someone who claims to represent God and righteousness, and supposedly getting it right as led by Holy Spirit.

What is taught in schools and universities can be continually tested to see if it is true.

The Bible is a FINISHED PRODUCT, but most can only be tested through the lens of common sense. 

Evey religion that has ever existed, or exists now,  has been and is seduced into abandoning common sense ... because of "Free Money".

Comparison of the two educational systems  is not valid.    They do NOT have the same basis.

When you speak with the authority of Jehovah God ... and you are right about 15% of the time, and make up stuff out of THIN AIR, and punish others for not believing as you do ... and you are flat WRONG 85% of the time ..... who then is the apostate?

Yes, I suppose prostitutes give more value for the money than  lawyers, most of the time, but that is not the point.

When you collect other people's money for "feel-good"  made up stories ( and there is quite a list, as we have discussed here for years...) you become, not a representative of the True God, but a professional story teller with a bloodied knife for those that don't like manufactured fantasy, for MONEY!

There is a very real and dramatic difference between being an apostate to the Christ, and the True God, Jehovah, and being an apostate to the clueless, opinionated, made up out of wishful thinking, arbitrary "flavor of the month".

"New Light", means you .... no matter WHO you are ....  are actually an apostate to what you believed and/or taught as Truth, last month.

If you are at the top of the hierarchy ... you get money, real estate, unlimited free labor, status,  and adulation. You NEVER go hungry, live in a dump, dress shabbily, or sleep cold.

If you are at the bottom of the hierarchy, you get the knife, and are ENCOURAGED to go hungry, live in a dump, dress shabbily, and sleep cold.

 

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Could it be that "Foreigner", the voiceless phantom who has bad opinions about, and "downvotes" EVERYBODY .... except Billy(Just Weasel)theKid46 .... is a disembodied demon from Hell, or worse, a disembodied  Watchtower Lawyer resembling a protoplasmic giant hand, with the stump sitting in a chair, awkwardly manipulating a computer mouse?

It's just an idea I had, based on month's and months of evidence.  Nothing more ...

I would ask "Foreigner" to confirm or deny, but that might prevent Billy(Just Weasel)theKid46 from weighing in on this theory.

Perhaps Billy(Just Weasel)theKid46 has "Foreigner" wrapped up in duct tape, and it's the best he can do?

It's just an idea I had, based on month's and months of evidence.  Nothing more ...

 

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@James Thomas Rook Jr. When you speak with the authority of Jehovah God ... and you are right about 15% of the time, and make up stuff out of THIN AIR, and punish others for not believing as you do ... and you are flat WRONG 85% of the time ..... who then is the apostate?

James, I've just arrived home and I've been out in the sun, it's very hot here, so excise me for being slightly in a confused state. However, I do not understand where you are coming from. 

I presume this quote of yours above is referring to the GB / W/t / JW Org. But I keep thinking you are a JW. 

It is a complex problem, as we have TRUTH, not available, anywhere else ... and that TRUTH, when not contaminated, represents freedom and life itself.

Then we have this. 'as we have TRUTH not available anywhere else'.  AS who has truth ?  Not the GB surely ? 

Let's not get TTH going about JW org being the 'only game in town'.  Oh dear.   

So JW's go door to door with 85% lies / non truth, if your top statement is right. And 85% of what's written in the mags and books is lies/ wrong too. 

And JW's go to the meetings to have 'their ears tickled', and are willing to pay for that too. 

And the GB / W/t / JW Org is just big business. That's what I'm getting from your comments. 

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