AlanF

13 minutes ago, Arauna said:

 

That was the flood - not 50 millions of years.  That is where the marine fossils come from all over the earth - on all the highest mountains. 

Like Ann O'Maly said: start a new topic.

11 minutes ago, Arauna said:

 

Jer 29:10 

 “For this is what Jehovah says, ‘When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled, I will turn my attention to you,a and I will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place.

Irrelevant scripture. Try Jer. 25:12, 27:7.

11 minutes ago, Arauna said:

We all know the Babylonian empire as a empire that dominated the world scene came to an end when Cyrus conquered it. Yes it continued for a long time after that as a city but not as an empire ever again.

So what are you trying to prove?

You'll never get the point if you can't manage to read the proper scriptures. So I'll help you. Jer. 25:12:

<< But when 70 years have been fulfilled, I will call to account the king of Babylon and that nation for their error,’ declares Jehovah, ‘and I will make the land of the Chal·deʹans a desolate wasteland for all time. >>

According to ScholarJW Pretendus, the beginning of this "desolation" began when the Jews returned to Judah in 537 BCE -- a completely nonsensical idea. My point is that there was no such desolation for another ~1,200 years.

Note that the scripture says nothing about either the city of Babylon or about the Babylonian empire, but about "the land of the Chaldeans". The "land" comprises more than the empire; the empire is a political entity, but the land is a physical entity. The political entity ceased to exist in 539 BCE. In the course of time, the physical entity fell into ruins and became "a desolate wasteland". Capiche?

2 minutes ago, Arauna said:

. . . major movement of Teutonic plates . . .

LOL!

8 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

1. It's off topic,

2. Do some reading on Earth history, plate tectonics, and geological time. 🙄

@AlanF, may I suggest that, rather than have Anna's thread go off track, a new one might be started on human existence/development, etc.?

You're right. From here on I won't respond to Arauna's ignorant off-topic rants.

Arauna said:

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 1 hour ago, AlanF said:
layers in India

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Why do you not rather talk about the highest mountains in the world

They're not relevant to the Toba eruption of 74,000 years ago.

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which all have  fossils from the sea in its layers.

I already explained this to you. Is your ancient wizened memory that bad? Look up "plate tectonics" and how the tectonic collision of India with Asia over the last 50 million years raised the Himalayas and uplifted the marine floor.

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and the Cambrian explosion which brought forth in ONE layer all the different fossils and all are fully developed!

I already debunked that nonsense. There is no ONE Cambrian layer -- there are many. Do a little research on the Grand Canyon and you'll see.

But as I've said many times, Arauna: you're "research" consists solely of reading Young-Earth Creationist propaganda, supplemented from time to time with Watchtower propaganda. And you don't understand enough to realize that even the ignorant Watchtower writers know enough to reject Young-Earth Creationism.

Arauna said:

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 1 hour ago, AlanF said:
The Bible and the Watchtower Society are out of sync with reality.

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The religion of evolution (which poses as a science) is out of whack with reality.

Ah yes. The 'reality' that says that life on earth is only 27,000 years old. The 'reality' that says all birds came before any land animals.

Arauna said:

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1 hour ago, AlanF said:
The DNA of the first three is found in all non-Africans today,

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LOL - one can now determine the number of generations from the DNA......   and it does not go  far back.

How many generations? What evidence do you have for your answer?

Of course, you'll never answer, because you, as usual, are just pulling crap out of your ass.

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  1 hour ago, AlanF said:
Gobekli Tepi in Turkey is something like 12,000 years old

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LOL Turkish propaganda.

Nonsense. International teams of archaeologists have studied the site.

More crap out of your ass.

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The "handbag" is similar to the symbolism in ancient Assyrian depictions.  We all know that the dating of artifacts is a BIG scam.

We do, eh? Again -- evidence.

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One has to give the layer of the earth it was lifted from and then a mathematical formula is aplied to determine age.  If one does not give the layer of the earth it came from - different labs give totally different dating results for pieces of the same artifacts.

Nonsense.

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The universe cannot come from nothing. Energy had to come from somewhere.

Where did God come from? How about his "dynamic energy"?

Arauna said:

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On 12/28/2020 at 9:15 AM, TrueTomHarley said:
I got it that we are out of sync with the majority scholastic view on this matter. So? We are out of sync with the majority scientific view on the origin of humankind, too.

Bravo! true! and be proud of it!

 

Rather, be ashamed of it.

Recognizable humans have existed as such for more than 2 million years. Their ancestors have existed for about three times that. A great deal of evidence indicates that a variety of human species have existed just in Europe and Asia during the last 60 thousand years and more -- Neanderthals, Denisovans, probably one other similar to them, and others more distantly related like Homo floriensis and perhaps even Homo erectus. The DNA of the first three is found in all non-Africans today, in percentages ranging from 1% to 5%. All of this is impossible within the Watchtower's 6,000 year timeframe for humanity.

Archaeological remains abound. Gobekli Tepi in Turkey is something like 12,000 years old and is obviously far older than 6,000 years, even to non-archaeologists. Some 74,000 years ago the giant volcano Toba in Sumatra erupted and killed perhaps all but a few thousand humans on earth due to drastic cooling of climate. Above the ash layers in India have been found human artifacts that indicate that another wave of migration out of Africa occurred within some 15,000 years of the eruption. On and on goes the evidence of humans living in Africa, Europe and Asia for tens of thousands of years, and in the Americas for at least 15,000 years.

The Bible and the Watchtower Society are out of sync with reality.

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

So how was Babylon punished after the 70 years?  Do you know?   

The answer has been given repeatedly, by me, Ann, JW Insider, and perhaps others in this and other threads. Assuming you're not as stupid as ScholarJW Pretendus and know how to search for text in your browser (Control-F in Windows), search for Jeremiah 25:12 and see if you can figure it out.

Here, I'll give you a little more on that: the passage does not just say that Babylon will be punished, but that the king of Babylon will be punished. That was Nabonidus the main king who was deposed, and Belshazzar his viceroy, who was killed. Read Daniel 5 about "mene, mene . . .". Also Jer. 27:7 and 2 Chron. 36:20-21.

As for Babylon itself, it continued as a working city until roughly 700 CE, depending on how you measure "working". That's another 1,200 years.

7 hours ago, scholar JW said:

Ann O'Maly

NO. Read the entire verse 12 because it refers to the fact that the King, is nation and the land would be become ' a desolated wasteland for all time'-NWT Such a process was not just a one off but would come into effect after the 70 years had expired which was 537 BCE  so exegesis cannot permit that such a prophecy was fulfilled with the Fall of Babylon in 539 BCE. This interpretation of these words of Jeremiah were fulfilled with the Return in the 'first year of Cyrus' according to the Chronicler which was after 539 BCE in 537 BCE.

Another example of JWish ass-backwards thinking.

Jer. 25:12 is quite clear: When the 70 years are complete, or Upon the completion of 70 years, the king of Babylon will be punished. In other words, FIRST the 70 years are completed or fulfilled, and THEN the king is punished.

JW apologists have been so thoroughly schooled in ass-backwards thinking that they don't notice such things.

That's why they start with 1914 and work backwards to get to 607.

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

Maybe you are the one with no insight - because he may be correcting you and you are too obtuse to see it.

The fact that you cannot see the connection between the gods and the stars indicates that you have no clue of Babylonian culture.  They did not have science - religion was their 'everything' - superstition spells and all.

Another knee-jerk clueless defense.

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

Thank you - I made a copy of your notes and will look at it when I have more time.  I noticed that you quoted a section which equates star with worship of certain gods.

This is what AlanF and his ilk do not understand and therefore reject the equation of the stars with the predictions and spells and associated health of people - they just see it as pure science and not as a religion.  Science as we know it today did not exist in ancient times in the entire middle east.....they observed the planets and stars as part of their religion. I quote: " 

 'The zodiacal constellations were made objects of false worship from early Mesopotamian times onward. Certain qualities were attributed to each of the different constellations, and these were then used in astrological predictions based on the particular position or relationship of the celestial bodies to the signs of the zodiac at any given time. As shown by the text at 2 Kings 23:5, such use of astrology was introduced into Judah by foreign-god priests whom certain kings had brought into the country. Jehovah God long before had prohibited such star worship on penalty of death.—De 17:2-7.

Astrology was a predominant facet of Babylonian worship. The predictions based on the zodiac by her astrologers, however, did not save Babylon from destruction, even as the prophet Isaiah had accurately forewarned.—Isa 47:12-15;  '

There are many scriptures referring to the disgusting practices associated with the star and moon worship which originated in Babylon.  Ur and Haran (both cities which Abraham lived in before crossing the Euphrates  in 1943 BCE) were moon god cities.

For example the star of Ishtar was associated with Venus - if you do not believe me go study some more.....  I am writing from memory.... You will recall that Ishtar   and Baal worship was the male and female fertility gods.  Babylon had the Ishtar gate.  

"So he put out of business the foreign-god priests, whom the kings of Judah had appointed to make sacrificial smoke on the high places in the cities of Judah and the surroundings of Jerusalem, as well as those making sacrificial smoke to Baʹal, to the sun, to the moon, to the constellations of the zodiac, and to all the army of the heavens."

Alan F is so dismissive of anything does not does originate with him..... thank goodness I have done my own research - not because I want to be smart - but because I love Jehovah and want to understand the background of the bible. 

 

 

Completely clueless.

23 hours ago, scholar JW said:

Alan de Fool

The said scholar stands for integrity and truth, qualities that are not of your character!!!

scholar JW

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

Anna said:

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On 12/29/2020 at 2:07 PM, AlanF said:
The Bible does not specify the start of the 70 years, but there are enough hints in the Bible that the period was already running when Jeremiah issued several prophecies. (e.g., Jer. 29:10) Many commentators now tend to view the start as in 609 BCE,

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Thanks for admitting that.

"Admit" is the wrong word. This is what proper scholars have been saying for decades. And of course, JW critics have said it at least a hundred times on this board.

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  On 12/29/2020 at 2:07 PM, AlanF said:
when the Babylonians put an end to the last of the Assyrian forces at the battle of Harran. But no one is dogmatic about it, since the Bible is silent

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Right. Which means to be on the safe side,, it would be better to start at the end of the 70 years, which the Bible is more specific about.

As I, Ann O'Maly and others have shown, the 70 years ended in 539 BCE when the king of Babylon was punished. Go back 70 years and you get 609 BCE. No problem.

Also note that your argument assumes that "70" is an exact figure -- which is open to question.

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according to..2 Chronicles and Ezra .. this happened in the first year of Cyrus.

Nope. I've already explained the details of this many times.

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(But then the question is should we count as the return the decree to rebuild, or should we count Cyrus' conquest of Babylon).

Neither the decree nor the conquest started the Return. The return occurred nearly a year after the conquest of October, 539, not later than about September, 538.

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  On 12/29/2020 at 2:07 PM, AlanF said:
Because of your JW training, you have it strongly ingrained that the 70 years are of great significance. They are not. The ONLY reason the Watchtower Society views them as significant is that without the 70 years, they cannot get to 1914.

Well yes, I will not deny that. 

 

Good!

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Honestly, for a lay person like me, a few years plus minus do not present a big problem. I am just chuffed that something written thousands of years ago, whether it be Babylonian chronicles or the Bible, can be brought into harmony and fall within a few years of each other.

As Ann and I and others keep pointing out, the Bible and secular history are in excellent agreement about virtually all significant chronology. It is only the Watchtower's distortions that are out of sync. You have only to read the many sources that I and others have pointed you to.

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If I was to take your information regarding commentators viewing 609 as the start of the 70 years, and use Ann's 539 as the end of servitude to Babylon then there we have the 70 years.

Precisely! Ann and I are in agreement on this.

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We can take those 70 years and slide them to the left by 2 years to get to 537 and I think it would still be fair to say that this could count as the end of servitude to Babylon.

Nope. The Watchtower Society and its apologists are adamant that the 70 years were a precise period of time that cannot be moved even by one month. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

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(Beginning with the decree to rebuild the temple)

There was no specific decree to rebuild the temple at a specific time. Cyrus' decree allowed the Jews and other captives to return to their homelands, where they could rebuild temples on their own timetables. Ezra is quite clear that this happened with the Jewish temple in the 2nd month of the 2nd year of the Return from exile, i.e., Iyyar of 537 BCE.

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and so 607 could be the start of the 70 years, since as you say the Bible is silent about the exact start anyway.

You're going in circles now. It's entirely possible that "the 70 years" was an approximate period. This has been discussed by scholars for centuries.

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I know you will probably hate my apparent disregard for precision, but 2 years wiggle room is good enough for me.

Perhaps for after-the-fact rationalization, but not as a foundational figure upon which to base the Society's claim that in 1919 Jehovah anointed Watchtower leaders to a special position of spiritual authority "over all Christ's earthly belongings".

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But seriously now, it seems that one cannot dogmatically claim 609 nor 607, and 539 or 537, because these dates are dependent on the interpretation of the pertinent scriptures.

The only date one can be dogmatic on is 539 BCE, since a great deal of evidence supports it as the date of Babylon's fall and the end of Nebuchadnezzar's dynasty. And of course, no scriptures pinpoint 539 -- only secular data does that. And Jeremiah 25:12, 27:7 and 29:10 clearly show that the 70 years ended when that dynasty became no more.

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I do admit though, that this wiggle room automatically biases me to try to make 1914 fit, rather than actually work from available secular evidence for certain dates. I can see WT trying to do that too. 

Yes, but that is exactly the ass-backwards thinking that has resulted in the Society lying about so much to do with its bogus chronology. What about intellectual honesty?

And remember that the originators of the "606-607 chronology" (Christopher Bowen, E. B. Elliott, Nelson Barbour and C. T. Russell) were adamant that 606 BCE was the starting date for the 70 years. They certainly did no ass-backwards calculations. Rather, they began with secular data (i.e., 536 BCE for the fall of Babylon, (also wrong)) and applied their interpretations of certain Bible passages to arrive (wrongly) at 606 BCE + 2,520 years = 1914 CE. You want to work backwards from 1914. Why?

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I am still learning, as I'm sure you have guessed, so I apologize. Some of the things I say might sound ridiculous to you and Ann.

Yes, but given your JW background, and the fact that you don't lie about these things, in contrast to many other JWs, you can be forgiven.

22 minutes ago, scholar JW said:

Nope for our Chronology is in harmony with secular chronology albeit a little 'fine tuning' of a corrective of some twenty years. The 70 years is a major piece of Jewish history and those that choose to ignore it do so at expense of sound scholarship.

The 586/7 dilemma continues to haunt modern scholarship from the days of Edwin Thiele which was heightened as real conundrum of secular chronology by Rodger Young who has not yet solved the problem and has not yet been solved. Young  of course , ignores the 70 years as does Edwin Thiele and others.

Yes, please do continue with your lies, as all intelligent readers will become better educated in how not to be scholastically honest.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

Hmmmm. Thanks? Well, that should convince her!  I think she trusts your judgment on par with how she judges mine.

Well that's her lookout.

8 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

There you go again, Neil. Back in your fantasy world.

ScholarJW Pretendus continues making the same mistake that most JW apologists do with chronology as well as many other beliefs: they're ass-backwards in their thinking. Since 1914 is all-important, they must perform all sorts of mental gyrations to justify it. Such as claiming that the 70 years is of fundamental importance to both Bible and secular chronology. But the period ONLY has importance to the 1914 chronology and the huge house-of-cards belief structure that rests on it.

And of course, ScholarJW Mendacicus continues lying about "the 586/7 BCE dilemma" when he knows quite well that Rodger Young put that issue to bed back in 2004. He knows this because he's completely unable to refute Young's paper; all he can manage is his usual limp but loudly proclaimed refrain, "It's wrong cuz the 70 years!!!"

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Why would Jeremiah speak of a 70 year exile or captivity then?

He doesn't. He speaks of a 70 year SERVITUDE.

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Yes.  I agree. The question is of course; when do the 70 years start, or end?

I already showed you the Scriptural proof that they ended in 539 BCE when Jehovah "called to account" against Nebuchadnezzar's dynasty by conquering Babylon, deposing king Nabonidus and killing king Belshazzar. (Jer. 25:12, etc.)

The Bible does not specify the start of the 70 years, but there are enough hints in the Bible that the period was already running when Jeremiah issued several prophecies. (e.g., Jer. 29:10) Many commentators now tend to view the start as in 609 BCE, when the Babylonians put an end to the last of the Assyrian forces at the battle of Harran. But no one is dogmatic about it, since the Bible is silent.

Because of your JW training, you have it strongly ingrained that the 70 years are of great significance. They are not. The ONLY reason the Watchtower Society views them as significant is that without the 70 years, they cannot get to 1914.

1 hour ago, Anna said:

I suppose the decree to rebuild the temple was as good as laying the foundations?

No. While the foundations were laid in the 2nd year of the Return, opposers quickly put a stop to the building. It was not resumed until the reign of Darius Hystaspis, and completed sometime around 516/515 BCE.

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Insight 1 p.417 (captivity) "Early in 537 B.C.E., Persian King Cyrus II issued a decree permitting the captives to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the temple. (2Ch 36:20, 21; Ezr 1:1-4) "

A decree permitting them to build is in no way the same as them starting the building.

27 minutes ago, Arauna said:

I have only said that you are too smart for your own boots. Yes it is negative my comments - because your words are not leading people to jehovah but away from him.....

Again confusing Jehovah with the Watchtower Society.

27 minutes ago, Arauna said:

so you obviously have an ego problem and love for yourself is more important than love for jehovah because you are causing confusion for others.  By the fruits you bear I know you. 

JW Insider, although we disagree about some things, happens to be about most honest JW I've ever come across. Coming from me, that's saying something!

27 minutes ago, Arauna said:

I had a lot of respect for you before but your deviations have become bolder and bolder.  So many teachings that you reject..... which are as clear as daylight. Being "nice" don't make what you say true. 

"Clear as daylight." LOL! LIke teaching that organ transplants are the same as eating organs? Like teaching that "the resurrection of the saints" in 1881 was a fact of history for half the Watchtower's history? Like teaching that Christ returned invisibly in 1874? Like teaching "Armageddon is right around the corner" for decades, despite Jesus' warning in Luke 21:8 not to do that?

I could go on with such examples for a long time, but you get the idea: as claimed "speakers for Jehovah", Watchtower leaders speak with forked tongues: they are false prophets.

In the end, assuming your God actually judges people for their actions, who do you think will fare better: Unthinking, willingly gullible drones? Or people who actually think about what they're taught and make decisions according to their consciences?

Arauna said:

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 2 hours ago, AlanF said:
Watchtower history -- which demonstrably differs from biblical history.

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I recently looked at the chronology again.  It cannot fit into the skewed secular dates.

Once again: PROVE IT.

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  2 hours ago, AlanF said:
Sumerian culture of 3,000 BCE from the Babylonian culture of 500 BCE.

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The origin of the religion and use of the zodiac was the same....

So what?

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nebuchadnezzar had his priests investigate livers and predict what he should do.  He had dreams which had to be interpreted...... superstition was just as rife as when the ziggurats first appeared. He went up in the ziggurats and slept with the priestess like the  other kings before him and he called his magicians and interpreters several times - as related in the bible. 

What does any of that have to do with the price of bread in Uruk?

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  2 hours ago, AlanF said:
religiosity of the observer. The

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Interpretations and superstitions  related to religion is important.  It shapes how people think and how they look for signs in the physical heavens.

So what? The only things the Babylonian astrologers recorded were perfectly normal things in the sky -- eclipses, positions of various bright objects, etc. No livers.

I challenge you again: how do those religious practices affect and/or distort the OBSERVATIONS these people made? Especially when they viewed making accurate observations as their sacred duty? What EVIDENCE do you have for your claims?

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Even in modern times people believe that the Christmas star was a good omen ...... that is ... if there was a star..... or something that looked like a star.

So what? The Bible clearly says it was not a star but some sort of light moving around and guiding the Magi. The people who recorded the supposed incident certainly didn't say that it was an astronomical observation.

As usual you're just throwing out all manner of crap hoping something will stick.

Try thinking for a change.

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

Neb was at the battle of carchemish when he got the news his father had died. He went back to take kingship.   Secular dates do not match biblical sequence of history.

Yes they do. What you really mean is that secular dates do not match Watchtower history -- which demonstrably differs from biblical history.

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

At this time Israel was still a vassal of Egypt. Jehoiakim  became a vassal to Babylon. He ruled 11 years  And later  zedekia replaced him.....he also ruled 11 years if I remember correctly..... so the secular dates for these events do not fit bible events.  So one has a choice: do I accept the bible chronology or secular chronology. Does secular chronology allow for all the biblical events to fit in? 

Let's see if you manage a simple task: list the dates in question and the Scriptural and secular evidence for/against them. Of course, following your usual pattern, you won't.

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

Biblical timeline : all bbiblical events fit in perfectly.... Secular timeline- does not make sense  because one has to argue and debate where  to slot them in.

Nonsense. Once again it is Watchtower 'chronology' that doesn't fit.

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

Another point:  someone here on the forum spoke to me like a child to explain babylonian astronomy - which I may understand better than they do. . 

You've demonstrated repeatedly that you need to be spoken to like a petulant child.

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

This person does not understand the reason why the babylonians were doing astronomy.  It had nothing at all  to do with science........ Astronomical observation  was not a science like today.

Duh. That's because astronomy as such did not yet exist. Astrology -- predicting events based on the supposed connection between heavenly and earthly events -- was the motivation.

If anything, because astrology was religious in nature, Babylonian observers would have been all the more diligent in recording their observations. After all, when modern astronomers get something wrong, they only have to give an account to their boss. Babylonian astronomers had to give an account to their gods.

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

They observed the stars that were visible studiously because it was the "religion". The observations were all based on superstition, spells and predictions.

Wrong. You've got it ass- backwards, as usual.

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

This person is  ignorant of the  babylonian mindset.  I originally studied Sumerian culture (which was the basis of chaldean and assyrian thinking)  to understan the babylonian mindset. 

You studied history from about 2,500 years too early.

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

This is a trap that many scholars fall into. They get so involved in their own theory that they miss the "thinking" culture of the time period they are talking about. 

That's funny, coming from someone who can't distinguish the Sumerian culture of 3,000 BCE from the Babylonian culture of 500 BCE.

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

So a modern scholar can re-interpret some of the babylonian  "interpretations " of the skies and think it is solid - I would suggest caution in accepting this as solid evidence. 

Complete nonsense. Observations are observations, irrespective of the religiosity of the observer. The interpretations, if any, involve applying the observations to predicting earthly events. Again you display ass-backwards thinking.

Anna said:

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12 hours ago, AlanF said:
... The Watchtower's claim has nothing to do with when the foundations of the temple were laid. 537 has only to do with their claimed date for when some of the Jews returned to Judah.

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I don't think so. 

Excerpt from WT 11/10/1

When were the Jews released? The decree ending their exile was issued in “the first year of Cyrus the king of Persia.” (See the box “A Pivotal Date in History.”) Thus, by the fall of 537 B.C.E., the Jews had returned to Jerusalem to restore true worship.—Ezra 1:1-5; 2:1; 3:1-5.

 

This says nothing about laying the foundations of the temple. It does say something about returning to Jerusalem to restore true worship, and Ezra does say something about laying the temple foundations:

Ezra 3:8-10 states that the temple foundations were laid in the second month of the second year of the Jews' return. The first year of the Jews' return ran from either Tishri, 539 BCE through Elul, 538 BCE, or Nisan, 538 BCE through Adar, 537 BCE. Assuming the more likely Tishri-Tishri dating system, the second year began in Tishri, 538 BCE. In Against Apion I,21, Josephus states that “in the second year of the reign of Cyrus [the temple’s] foundations were laid.” Therefore, this second Jewish year overlaps with the second year of Cyrus. Since Cyrus’ second year began in Nisan, 537 BCE, the second month Iyyar was also in 537. Therefore, the temple's foundations were laid in Iyyar, 537 BCE.

You can find my extended discussion of all of this here: https://critiquesonthewatchtower.org/new-articles/2019/02/why_jews_returned_538.pdf

Anna said:

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Doesn't [Jeremiah 29:10] mention 70 years of captivity to the Babylonians and the desolation of the land?

That's a big oversimplification of what Jeremiah said, so let's look at several of the passages of interest.

Jer. 29:10 New American Standard Bible
<< For this is what the Lord says: ‘When seventy years have been completed for Babylon, I will visit you and fulfill My good word to you, to bring you back to this place. >>

That says nothing about 70 years of captivity. It does say 70 years for Babylon. The sense is that when 70 years of Babylonian supremacy over something -- which other passages show is supremacy over the entire Middle East -- when 70 years of supremacy over the Middle East have ended, God would return the Jews to Judah.

The New World Translation in English follows the obsolete King James Version here, and uses "70 years AT Babylon". Many commentators have shown why this is wrong.

The above is entirely consistent with all other relevant passages -- as long as Watchtower spin is not applied. Take a look (this material is borrowed from the essay I pointed you to ( https://ad1914.com/biblical-evidence-against-watchtower-society-chronology/ 😞

Linguistic, contextual and historical biblical facts show that Jeremiah predicted that Judah and the nations around it would, as a group, serve Nebuchadnezzar’s dynasty for 70 years (Jer. 25:8-12; 27:6-7). The key passage is Jer. 25:11: “These nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.” The Bible and secular history show that Judah and various nations individually served less than 70 years, depending on when they were first conquered and how one measures “serving.” God, through Jeremiah and other prophets, gave each nation the choice whether to serve on their own land or in exile (Jer. 27:7-11, 17; 40:9-10). To serve in their own land they had to submit to Nebuchadnezzar. The Jews under various kings refused; hence they were taken into exile at various times from 605/4 through 582 BCE (Dan. 1:1-2; Jer. 52:28-30). Thus there was no 70-year exile or captivity or desolation of Judah.

A key point is: Jer.29:10 and Jer.25:11 are consistent: the Jews and surrounding nations would SERVE Babylon 70 years. Whether they would serve while remaining in their own land, or as captives in Babylon, depended upon their peacefully submitting to Babylon.

The 70 years of Babylonian supremacy ended in 539 BCE when Jehovah “called to account” against, or punished, Nebuchadnezzar’s dynasty (Jer. 25:12) by allowing the Medo-Persian empire under Cyrus to conquer Babylon and put an end to Nebuchadnezzar’s dynasty. This is directly stated in Daniel 5, where verses 28-30 say: “Your kingdom has been divided and given to the Medes and the Persians… in that very night Belshazzar the Chaldean king was killed.” In contrast, the Society claims that Nebuchadnezzar’s dynasty was called to account two years after its demise, when the Persians freed the Jews to return home (w79 9/15 pp. 23-24; g 5/13 p. 13), but this is ridiculous. You cannot punish a dynasty that no longer exists.

2 Chronicles 36:20 states that Nebuchadnezzar’s minions carried off Jews to Babylon, and these Jews remained servants to Nebuchadnezzar’s dynasty until the Persians under Cyrus took over, after which they were servants to Cyrus and his minions until Cyrus let them return to Judah. This confirms again that the 70 years were a time of Babylonian supremacy, not the term of the desolation of Judah. That desolation occurred during the 70 years. This is consistent with Jer. 25:8, 11, 12 which states that the Jews and nations round about would be servants to “Nebuchadnezzar and his sons” until God called them to account.

Because Jews were taken into exile in 605/4, 597, 587 and 582 BCE, and released in 538, there was not just a single period of exile or captivity. Therefore it is wrong to speak of a 70-year exile or captivity. Similarly it is wrong to speak of a 70-year desolation of Judah, because Jerusalem was ruined (Hebrew: chorbah) in a relative sense from the Jewish point of view when Nebuchadnezzar first took a few captives (including Daniel) in 605/4 BCE, and in a complete sense after most of the Jews left the land between 587 and 582 BCE.

Much more could be said about all this, but I'm sure issues will come up during this discussion.