AlanF

Anna said:
Very good! But the Watchtower Society claims that Greenlees, other GB members and all elders are appointed by God, thus contradicting the fact that Greenlees was not. If Greenlees was not, then the rest were not either.
This is simple logic. Why do you refuse to accept it?
The point is that the mere claim that one is following the directions in the Bible in no way means that one is actually following those directions.
The proof is in the pudding, and the JW organization's 'pudding' proves that it often does not follow the directions. Hence it is not what it claims: God's earthly representative.
Deliberately missing the point again.
The point is that, despite the Pope's and many other leaders of 'Christendom's' claims to be appointed to their positions by God, and to speak for God, you and all other JWs reject those claims. Why? Because according to your beliefs, despite their claims, they are not doing God's will according to the Bible.
Once again the point here is that old Tom, Dick and Harry can claim to be doing God's will, but that claim in no way means that they are actually doing God's will. Their actions prove or disprove it.

Especially in the JW community.

@b4ucuhear  Quote " I agree with you on that, since I know a number of brothers who have been disciplined for child molestation in various congregations.  All of them have been faithful brothers for many years now without incident.  But a potential problem with that type of weakness is the rate of recidivism that can accompany that type of behaviour.  Naturally, there are some very thorny legal issues associated with appointing a person with such a history and whether he would even potentially offend again."
I wonder if those brothers are in the 20 year long DATABASE that the GB are refusing to hand over to the authorities. 
If you KNOW A NUMBER OF BROTHERS WHO HAVE BEEN DISCIPLINED FOR CHILD MOLESTATION,  then shouldn't you go to the Police or authorities with your information as @Anna likes to tell people to do. After all if they 'have been disciplined for it', then they must have done it. 
The plot thickens. And @TrueTomHarley says not many JW's do it. 
Child Sexual Abuse and Homosexuality, and still trying to pretend that the JW Org is clean. 
Remember Jesus saying 'First clean the inside of the dish, then the outside will also be clean'. 

The reason that you have been likened to Butler is that he had the same wont for overstatement, the same near hysteria on the topic, the same resilience to any mitigating factors, the same shrillness at any comparison of JWs to “the world.”
In his case, he was subjected to horrendous child sexual abuse by the British orphanage system. Yet he never (here) spoke a word against them—he took all of his rage out on Jehovah’s Witnesses that he joined much later, persons having nothing to do with his history.
He has said or indicated nothing of the sort. This is completely your emotional take. 
This is yet another example of the Master of Rationality completely throwing that quality out the windows in pursuit of his ends.
The trouble with critical thinking is that those who espouse it the loudest invariably assume that they have a lock on the stuff.

Quote @Anna Nor do I think that's the attitude of JW  leaders.
So what exactly is the attitude of the GB and it's lawyers for not handing over the complete 20 plus years of Database concerning Child Sexual Abuse accusations ?  After all shouldn't they 'obey God as ruler rather than men' and wouldn't God want His name cleared ?  Wouldn't God want justice for the victims? So it would not matter about what laws of men were in place. 
What is the attitude of the Australian Bethel brothers for not apologising to victims ?  The Australian government apologised and people of different religions agreed with the apology, but not the JW Org. 
What was the attitude of the UK Bethel brothers / solicitors when they refused to hand over the information to the Charity Commission ? Even though later they had to hand the info' over.
What did Jesus say ' If you are conscripted to walk one mile, then walk two miles'.
Why can't your GB actually take note of what Jesus was teaching here ? 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Separate Comment :- 
@TrueTomHarley   Quote " The reason that you have been likened to Butler is that he had the same wont for overstatement,... "
Oh come on then, show me my overstatement word for word.  Just as John Butler did I try to write the truth as I know it. Unfortunately he got disfellowshipped for it here. 
 

Look beneath the surface, Anna.
Your last post was excellent and well describes the attitude shown by TTH and so many elders, including and especially the Governing Body. "We abhor child molestation! But not as much as we abhor public exposure of anything that makes us look bad."

It's exactly the attitude TTH displays here -- "Oh, molestation is no big deal!" -- that has gotten JW leaders in deep doo doo, and is the source of the extreme disgust about them shown by so many people.

It can't get any clearer: "LIsten to Jehovah's voice!" is a direct claim to inspiration by the Governing Body.

Yet another instance of Orwellian crimestop.

:))))
I like this description. Can we make agreement how Truth is not Dogmatic. Because Dogmatism of any sort has no chance to be Truthful at all. 
If we have religious men (GB in this conversation) who giving direction to members we learned this from them: 
They decide to say how they are not inspired. They explained how because that particular reason (not been inspired) they err in doctrines and teachings and instructions. 
How sounds this to you? It sounds very nice. These are definitions that no one would named as Dogmatic. You agree? I also agree. But what is reality? GB have mechanisms to implement all uninspired, err and wrong doctrines, teachings and instructions in life of congregants and to successfully hold them (members) in obedience, not to Truth, but to Dogma. Because many GB doctrines, teachings and instructions based on False Ideas are Dogmas not Truth. That means how Dogmas in form of Religious beliefs are dogmatic itself (Dogmas are not Doctrines or Teachings, because we aspect this last two to be truth), and people who pushing Dogmas on other are Dogmatists. 
As we see, when GB talking about self as people who can err, sounds as very reasonable people. But still, despite that, they want you to obey their dogmatic ideas.
No, i would not go to such level of comparison. Many of us here agreed with statement how Jesus taught Truth only. Because of that he didn't need to be dogmatic. He left to people choice to choose will they accept or reject his teachings. Authority from God, you mentioned, not give him right nor he want to used such authority to demand from people, not even from those who followed him, to blindly follow and obey him. And because of this reason we don't consider him to be dogmatic. He didn't spread dogmas. But his followers did and doing that today.
All areas in Jesus' teachings i don't put on two or more levels. As we would need to see some of teachings to be more and other as less important. Do we have some examples from which we can conclude how he considered meetings as more important than preaching or vice versa? Or, to give money in temple box to be more important than helping needing one (brother or not brother) with that same money? If you know Bible text who give more light on this it will be good to read. 
What is more important for Christian to do today? Going to Betel service or to preach? If preaching Kingdom is of ultimate importance for JW members you don't need Betel buildings. So redirect all money to preaching and if you need building for some reasons, make it smaller and less expensive and employ 10 people not 400. Just illustration. :)))  
In what areas Jesus give you freedom and in what he is demanding?
In what areas GB give you freedom and in what they are demanding? 
Try to make comparative list! :))  
I am interested to see result you or any other will have.
I guess how this is not sin against HS, but just opinion ..... about fact how people's spirit are stronger ... sometimes.

I've never been disappointed in you, James.

Anna said:
It's gross deception. Why? Because it deliberately gives a completely false picture of what the Bible Students said.
That's like saying the Nazi's tried hard not to be dogmatic about Nazism, but didn't always succeed.
Tell me if the statements quoted below about 1918 and 1920 are dogmatic or not.
The Finished Mystery, 1917, pages 62, 64, said with great authority:
<<
The data presented in comments on Rev. 1:1... prove that the Spring of 1918 will bring upon Christendom a spasm of anguish greater even than that experienced in the Fall of 1914.
The awakening of the sleeping saints, A.D. 1878, was just half way (three and one-half years each way) between the beginning of the Times of Restitution in 1874 and the close of the High Calling in 1881. Our proposition is that the glorification of the Little Flock in the Spring of 1918 A.D. will be half way (three and one-half years each way) between the close of the Gentile Times and the close of the Heavenly Way, A.D. 1921.
>>
These predictions failed. More forceful language was used in the predictions of a terrible destruction due to come on Christendom's churches and their members in 1918, with their dead bodies strewn about unburied. Pages 484-485 said:
<< Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of "Christianity." >>
Page 513 said:
<< In the year 1918, when Christendom shall go down as a system to oblivion.... God will cause the nations to shake with gigantic revolutions. >>
The book also predicted stupendous events for 1920. On page 258 it said:
<<
Even the republics will disappear in the fall of 1920...
Every kingdom of earth will pass away, be swallowed up in anarchy...
The three days in which Pharaoh's host pursued the Israelites into the wilderness represent the three years from 1917 to 1920 at which time all of Pharaoh's messengers will be swallowed up in the sea of anarchy.
>>
On page 542 it said:
<< As the fleshly-minded apostates from Christianity, siding with the radicals and revolutionaries, will rejoice at the inheritance of desolation that will be Christendom's after 1918, so will God do to the successful revolutionary movement; it shall be utterly desolated, "even all of it." Not one vestige of it shall survive the ravages of world-wide all-embracing anarchy, in the fall of 1920. >>
How about the following statements about 1925? Were they dogmatic or not?
The book Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920 Edition, said on pages 89-90:
<< . . . we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old . . . >>
The May 15, 1922 Watch Tower said:
<<
We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925.
It was on this line of reckoning that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure. What further evidence do we need?
Using this same measuring line... it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914.
>>
I could go on with this for a long time, but here's the link on this that I already gave you: https://critiquesonthewatchtower.org/old-articles/2006/02/part-3-statements-concerning-1918-1925.html
Not dogmatic? Please!
The split is more like 90-10 when it came to anything to do with the Gentile Times stuff the Proclaimers book was discussing.
Believe what you like. Quotes like the above say different.
Time to go beddie-bye.

I know what you're saying, it's just that a hand on the inner thigh or rear end, if done deliberately, is usually just the beginning, and is like a test leading to other stages. Maybe the degree of molestation should be categorized in stages? Stage one: hand on inner thigh and buttocks, stage two: ........and so on.
The thing is, if the molester gets away with stage one (no one reports it, or the victim doesn't stop it) then you know for sure it will lead to stage two, and if that's not reported to stage three etc. So in my opinion, at least, it doesn't matter at what stage the molester gets caught or reported, because really it's about the potential, or goal of the molester, the actual "gravity" of the act is merely contingent on carrying on until he gets stopped. 
I consider my uncle (non JW) as molesting me when I was 13. I was wearing a t-shirt with some logo on it across my chest. He took his finger and begun tracing the writing and then at the end he tweeked my nipple. It all happened so unexpectedly that I didn't even think of moving. At the end of it I knew it had been deliberate because of the nipple thing. However, I nipped that one in the bud (no pun intended) by going straight to my mum  reporting what had happened. My mum went straight to my aunt, and my aunt went straight to my uncle. Needless to say, that was the last time he touched me. I hate to think what could have happened had I not said anything....

Anna said:
The Society made direct statements as well as more subtle suggestions. Take a gander:
<< How thrilling that must have been for Paul and Barnabas-sailing to their first foreign assignment! The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our century. >> January 1, 1989 Watchtower, p. 12
Note that "in our century" was changed to "in our day" in the bound volume and in the CDROM Library.
Note that when the following statements were made, the Society was teaching that "the generation of 1914" meant the group of people alive in 1914 who survived until "the end".
<< Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom. >> -- "The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah"-How? - 1971
<< And if the wicked system of this world survived until the turn of the century, which is highly improbable in view of world trends and the fulfillment of Bible prophecy, there would still be survivors of the World War I generation. However, the fact that their number is dwindling is one more indication that “the conclusion of the system of things” is moving fast toward its end. >> -- October 15, 1980 Watchtower, p. 31
<< It has been thrilling to see the fulfillment of Jesus’ sign showing that the Kingdom was established in the heavens in that momentous year 1914. And Jesus has told us to rejoice at seeing the dark storm clouds of Armageddon gathering since that time. He has told us that the “generation” of 1914—the year that the sign began to be fulfilled—”will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” (Matthew 24:34) Some of that “generation” could survive until the end of the century. But there are many indications that “the end” is much closer than that! >> -- March 1, 1984 Watchtower, pp. 18-19
<< The Time for a Change Is Near!
Carole, from France, has a “marvelous hope” and foresees, for the near future, “something marvelous—not at all like the world we live in.” Samuel, a 15-year-old youth from the same country, also believes in a complete change: “For the year 2000, I visualize a world transformed into a beautiful paradise! But I don’t think that either the present world or its rulers will live to see that day. . . We are living in the last days of the system of things.” Ruth, a German girl of 16, also expresses her confidence in these changes: “I know I’m not smart enough to change the world and make things run right. Only Jehovah, our Creator, can and will do that soon.” >> November 8, 1986 Awake!, pp. 7-8
 

Kind of like "he endeavored to avoid being dead". But he didn't always succeed.
You are what you are until you're not.

Yet another instance of Orwellian crimestop.

Anna said:
It's gross deception. Why? Because it deliberately gives a completely false picture of what the Bible Students said.
That's like saying the Nazi's tried hard not to be dogmatic about Nazism, but didn't always succeed.
Tell me if the statements quoted below about 1918 and 1920 are dogmatic or not.
The Finished Mystery, 1917, pages 62, 64, said with great authority:
<<
The data presented in comments on Rev. 1:1... prove that the Spring of 1918 will bring upon Christendom a spasm of anguish greater even than that experienced in the Fall of 1914.
The awakening of the sleeping saints, A.D. 1878, was just half way (three and one-half years each way) between the beginning of the Times of Restitution in 1874 and the close of the High Calling in 1881. Our proposition is that the glorification of the Little Flock in the Spring of 1918 A.D. will be half way (three and one-half years each way) between the close of the Gentile Times and the close of the Heavenly Way, A.D. 1921.
>>
These predictions failed. More forceful language was used in the predictions of a terrible destruction due to come on Christendom's churches and their members in 1918, with their dead bodies strewn about unburied. Pages 484-485 said:
<< Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of "Christianity." >>
Page 513 said:
<< In the year 1918, when Christendom shall go down as a system to oblivion.... God will cause the nations to shake with gigantic revolutions. >>
The book also predicted stupendous events for 1920. On page 258 it said:
<<
Even the republics will disappear in the fall of 1920...
Every kingdom of earth will pass away, be swallowed up in anarchy...
The three days in which Pharaoh's host pursued the Israelites into the wilderness represent the three years from 1917 to 1920 at which time all of Pharaoh's messengers will be swallowed up in the sea of anarchy.
>>
On page 542 it said:
<< As the fleshly-minded apostates from Christianity, siding with the radicals and revolutionaries, will rejoice at the inheritance of desolation that will be Christendom's after 1918, so will God do to the successful revolutionary movement; it shall be utterly desolated, "even all of it." Not one vestige of it shall survive the ravages of world-wide all-embracing anarchy, in the fall of 1920. >>
How about the following statements about 1925? Were they dogmatic or not?
The book Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920 Edition, said on pages 89-90:
<< . . . we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old . . . >>
The May 15, 1922 Watch Tower said:
<<
We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925.
It was on this line of reckoning that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure. What further evidence do we need?
Using this same measuring line... it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914.
>>
I could go on with this for a long time, but here's the link on this that I already gave you: https://critiquesonthewatchtower.org/old-articles/2006/02/part-3-statements-concerning-1918-1925.html
Not dogmatic? Please!
The split is more like 90-10 when it came to anything to do with the Gentile Times stuff the Proclaimers book was discussing.
Believe what you like. Quotes like the above say different.
Time to go beddie-bye.

Yes, JWs exercising Orwellian crimestop do get bored with topics that clobber their beliefs. My ex-wife did the same thing.
As for this discovery, I saw the same show but was not entirely convinced that they had the dating right. Recent discoveries in northwest Africa strongly indicate the presence of Homo sapiens 300,000 years ago, and it is well known that today's Sahara desert has alternated between wet and dry periods for several million years. Archaeological discoveries in Egypt, Libya, etc. clearly show modern human habitation from more than 50,000 years ago. So who knows how the Emirates discovery will pan out?

God temporarily gave them permission to fly.

Anna said:
I think you're very confused about this. Who would have known? Who would have thought him cured? When?
True, but that again assumes that those elders knew of the pedophile. Greenlees was not known to anyone but his victims, and perhaps unknown accomplices.
The psychiatric community and pretty much everyone dealing with children. And God.
Note this: "Pedophilia was first formally recognized and named in the late 19th century." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PedophiliaApparent the holy spirit did not get the message.
     
Ok.
Come on! We all know (at least, non-trinitarians do) that the Bible's use of "holy spirit" is just a metaphor for God's power, or better, just God. So saying that "holy spirit did this and that" means "God did this and that".
So are you claiming that God did not know about pedophilia, or that Greenlees was a homosexual pedophile?
     
In the sense that, put plainly, "God was not deceived".
Nope. Most Christians claim to follow the directions in the Bible, and you certainly don't accept that God directs them, metaphorically or directly.
Once again, by that reasoning the Pope has been appointed by God.

TrueTomHarley said:
Yet another dishonest sidestep, a clumsy red herring. Let's examine the relevant parts of the exchange, shall we?
TTH: This is AlanF’s taunt, Witness. He has said it innumerable times and now Arauna has adopted it once or twice in her replies.
Now, exactly what in your statement is "a very old expression, seldom heard anymore"? Plain old English?
After that I wrote:
<<<<
The May 1, 1957 Watchtower said (p.274):
<< If we are to walk in the light of truth we must recognize not only Jehovah God as our Father but his organization as our mother. >>
This makes for a truly excellent taunt because the idea expressed is so cultish.
TrueTomHarley's comment that this is my taunt is true in the sense that I often use it to taunt braindead JWs, but I've used the quote several times in this thread and many times in old threads. TTH's failure to reveal what he clearly knows is the source is, as usual, thoroughly dishonest.
>>>>
So, TTH, exactly where in your latest post did you respond rationally to what I actually said? Obviously you did not; hence your red herring response.
LOL! One of the JW organization's many myths its leaders promulgate.
There are so many disproofs of this myth it's hard to count them.

James Thomas Rook Jr said:
You seem to forget that when I use "hate and vitriol" it's always in the spirit of returning like for like.
You know very well that I've never been 'nasty' or you or to Anna or certain other posters. Do you know why?
On the other hand, TrueTomHarley and Arauna scream bloody murder when I give them back what they first gave me. Do you have different standards for me and them?
If you actually wade through my responses to Arauna, you'll not only learn much, but you'll see her lies -- which I don't hesitate to point out -- her misrepresentations, her sidestepping and her hypocrisy. Same for TTH, to the extent that I bother with his overt nonsense any more.
It seems to me that you expect me, an atheist, to be a better Christian than these clowns.

The Librarian said to James Thomas Rook:
You might look into the BB software that runs on this board:
http://www.rationalskepticism.org/

Like I said, reread those passages you try so hard to defend. It will give you evidence you are not willing to learn the truth.
 
My excuses or yours. The only deception I see comes from people that don't educate themselves about history. Anyone can take something out of context in order to express a negative outcome. What those people can't do is teach an educated person how to lie, especially when those, lies are poorly drawn.
 

John Paul said:
Not until after many of his predictions for the years just prior to 1914 collapsed. Until then he published dogmatic claims like these in The Time Is At Hand (1889), pp. 76-77:
<<
We present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the Gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that that date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men.
At that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, "Thy Kingdom come," will have obtained full, universal control, and that it will then be "set up," or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions.
It will prove that some time before the end of A.D. 1914 the last member of the divinely recognized Church of Christ, the "royal priesthood," "the body of Christ," will be glorified with the Head.
It will prove that from that time forward Jerusalem shall no longer be trodden down of the Gentiles, but shall arise from the dust of divine disfavor, to honor; because the "Times of the Gentiles" will be fulfilled or completed.
It will prove that the great "time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation," will reach its culmination in a world-wide reign of anarchy.
It will prove that before that date God's Kingdom, organized in power, will be in the earth and then smite and crush the Gentile image (Dan. 2:34) -- and fully consume the power of these kings. Its own power and dominion will be established as fast as by its varied influences and agencies it crushes and scatters the "powers that be" -- civil and ecclesiastical -- iron and clay.
>>
And on pages 98-99:
<<
True, it is expecting great things to claim, as we do, that within the coming twenty-six years all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved; but we are living in a special and peculiar time, the "Day of Jehovah," in which matters culminate quickly; and it is written, "A short work will the Lord make upon the earth....
In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914.
>>
Many more such dogmatic statements could be quoted from Russell's book.
The September 1 and 15, 1893 Watch Tower is quite revealing as to Russell's view of what would happen before 1914, and that he did not think his views were speculation of any sort. On pages 282-284 it said (p. 1581 of Reprints):
<< The question comes from many quarters: "Brother Russell, are you not possibly mistaken by a few years in your calculations, since you expect, upon Scriptural authority, that the great trouble will all be over by A.D. 1914, and that in its severity it will probably not reach us before A.D. 1906 to 1908? Is it not possible that the present financial trouble is the beginning of the great trouble?"
We answer, No; we think there is no mistake. >>
A number of times Russell clearly implied that he could not possibly be wrong. Zion's Watch Tower, July 15, 1894, said on page 226 (p. 1677 Reprints), under the subtitle "Can It Be Delayed Until 1914?":
<<
Seventeen years ago people said, concerning the time features presented in MILLENIAL DAWN, They seem reasonable in many respects, but surely no such radical changes could occur between now and the close of 1914: if you had proved that they would come about in a century or two, it would seem much more probable.
What changes have since occurred, and what velocity is gained daily?
"The old is quickly passing and the new is coming in."
Now, in view of recent labor troubles and threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They say that they do not see how present conditions can hold out so long under the strain.
We see no reason for changing the figures -- nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble. We see no reason for changing from our opinion expressed in the view presented in the WATCH TOWER of January 15, '92. We advise that it be read again.
>>
The January 15, 1892 Watch Tower said on page 19:
<< The Scriptures give unmistakable testimony to those who have full faith in its records, that there is a great time of trouble ahead of the present comparative calm in the world -- a trouble which will embroil all nations, overthrow all existing institutions, civil, social and religious, bring about a universal reign of anarchy and terror, and prostrate humanity in the very dust of despair, thus to make them ready to appreciate the power that will bring order out of that confusion and institute the new rule of righteousness. All this, the Scriptures show us, is to come to pass before the year 1914 (See MILLENNIAL DAWN, Vol. II, Chapter IV.) -- that is, within the next twenty-three years. >>
The October 1, 1904 Zion's Watch Tower, on pages 296-8 (pp. 3436-8 Reprints) printed a letter from a man who pointed out that Russell's chronology conflicted with data given by Ptolemy's Canon, and that he understood that Russell's view of the Gentile times had changed. Russell responded at length, pointing out that changing his chronology by even one year would throw it completely out of whack. He emphasized his faith in his figures:
<< We know of no reason for changing a figure: to do so would spoil the harmonies and parallels so conspicuous between the Jewish and Gospel ages.... The brother seems to further misunderstand us to teach that no great trouble will come before October, 1914 A.D. This is incorrect: we expect the great trouble of Rev. 13:15-17 before that date. >>
As 1914 approached Russell changed and toned down some of his opinions. The July 1, 1904 Watch Tower said, under the title "Universal Anarchy -- Just Before or After October, 1914 A.D.," on pages 197-8:
<< What seems at first glance the veriest trifle and wholly unrelated to the matter, has changed our conviction respecting the time when universal anarchy may be expected in accord with the prophetic numbers. We now expect that the anarchistic culmination of the great time of trouble which will precede the Millenial blessings will be after October, 1914, A.D. -- very speedily thereafter, in our opinion -- "in one hour," "suddenly," because "our forty years" harvest, ending October, 1914 A.D., should not be expected to include the awful period of anarchy which the Scriptures point out to be the fate of Christendom. >>
Contrary to Russell's expectations the War ended in 1918 without being followed by worldwide Socialist revolution and anarchy. The last member of the Church of Christ had not been glorified, the city of Jerusalem was still trodden down by the Gentiles, the Kingdom of God had not crushed "the Gentile image," and the "new heavens and the new earth" could not be seen anywhere by trouble-tossed humanity. Not one of the seven predictions enumerated in The Time Is At Hand had come true.
The book Light I, 1930, page 194, well described the effects of the failed predictions:
<< All of the Lord's people looked forward to 1914 with joyful expectation. When that time came and passed there was much disappointment, chagrin and mourning, and the Lord's people were greatly in reproach. They were ridiculed by the clergy and their allies in particular, and pointed to with scorn, because they had said so much about 1914, and what would come to pass, and their 'prophecies' had not been fulfilled. >>
So, John Paul, your transparent excuses are seen for what they are.

 
Of course it does. Russell taught that there was to be a grand "harvest" between 1874 and 1914.
And of course, he made the false prediction that Jesus would begin visibly ruling in 1914.
Which Russell did not predict.
The rest of your excuses have been shown up for what they are -- deceptive attempts to excuse false prophecies made by the founder of the Watchtower Society.