Grey Reformer

That’s right, those that stayed alive until 1975 got to be part of the 6000 years existence of mankind, and they also got to see the dramatic global changes that started humanity downward for the worse. So, yes! Stay alive until 1975.

True Christians became one step closer to God’s fulfillment. No one, but no one can change that with distorted Watchtower publications. People can read ALL of them in its proper context, and perhaps experience the delight 1975 brought to those loyally serving god. They savored and relished every minute of it. To know at some distant point, none of this will matter, for all of us will be judged according to our deeds.

There seems to be a disconnect when it comes to sincerity. Former witnesses here never have any.

Seems a bit dishonest since apostate sites quote Watchtower publications as you do. What does that prove? That you think in the same lines of distorting the facts? How about some actual facts that everyone here implies.

That depends on what you mean, new light. 1914 stands as it always has. Therefore, no one that I can think of has been disfellowshipped for an error in their of opinion they might have. There are former witnesses that have challenged the Watchtower doctrine by authorship and have been disfellowshipped, but only at a cost of them being wrong in their understanding.

However, the Watchtower is run by God’s Holy Spirit, not individual men as many former witnesses now contend, regardless of how that view is made by obscured opinions.

I think you might be confusing "evidence" and "proof." Rutherford, in more than one article, showed he knew the difference. He knew that evidence was not proof. But he was anxious to use this idea of the ability to draw stronger and stronger conclusions if a "second witness" and "third witness" to his idea were available. The Biblical idea of requiring a second witness, and the idea that a three-fold cord cannot be broken were utilized to make evidence seem like the equivalent of proof. Of course, most of these multiple evidences had actually been bent a bit to support each other. Today, it's easy to go back and see "confirmation bias" in his sloppy reasoning.
But he had another means of covering over the weaknesses of his evidence which had probably helped him to convince himself that he was right. And it would definitely draw over many of the persons who had remained hold-outs on the basis of unconvincing evidence. This was the fact that his "cause" (conclusion) was considered righteous and he had therefore associated his conclusion with faith. He was able to use "faith" in God's promises as the final glue to hold his weak "cord(s)" together, and hide its flaws, even from himself. This worked for Bible Students who followed him after Russell because they were anxious to believe that these men and their "Society" represented "the Lord."
Rutherford had already been accepting of the idea that he had been made the equivalent of the "Lord." This is the easiest explanation to me as to why so many people would merely accept the flimsy evidence without questioning. You don't question the Lord!
Some later examples might show you what I mean.
*** w74 11/1 p. 651 How Would You Treat an Ambassador? ***
The question is, How does the individual treat a visible representative of Christ who has clearly shown that he truly represents Christ? *** w55 6/1 p. 333 Part 11—Restoration of Theocratic Organization *** [quoting from 1938]
. . . the following was the resolution suggested to and adopted by all congregations who desired to be welded together under the Society’s theocratic leadership: “We, the company of God’s people taken out for his name, and now at ___________, recognize that God’s government is a pure theocracy and that Christ Jesus is at the temple and in full charge and control of the visible organization of Jehovah, as well as the invisible, and that ‘THE SOCIETY’ is the visible representative of the Lord on earth, and we therefore request ‘The Society’ to organize this company for service and to appoint the various servants thereof, so that all of us may work together in peace, righteousness, harmony and complete unity. We attach hereto a list of names of persons in this company that to us appear more fully mature and who therefore appear to be best suited to fill the respective positions designated for service.” Hints of the impact of this idea are found in the kind of reasoning we still use today, even when something turns out to be wrong. For example. The idea was that the Lord [Jehovah] came to his temple in 33 CE, through Jesus and his message. Then the Lord came to his temple again in 1918.
*** w55 11/15 pp. 692-693 par. 15 “Jehovah Is in His Holy Temple” ***
Since the preparatory messenger had come, it was therefore in Jesus’ day that the Lord Jehovah was to come suddenly to the temple . . .  He [Jesus] came as the visible representative of the Lord Jehovah, and by putting his spirit on Jesus Jehovah was with him in coming to that temple at Jerusalem in 33 (A.D.). . . . Has the Lord Jehovah now come to his spiritual temple with his Angel of the covenant? Christendom says No! . . . Down here Jesus came and began the cleansing in the spring of 1918 three and a half years after the birth of God’s kingdom in 1914 and the heavenly enthronement of Jesus Christ as reigning King then. Let Christendom deny that 1918 is the date of the Lord Jehovah’s sudden coming to his spiritual temple as the God of judgment, accompanied by his Angel of the covenant Jesus Christ. . . . Jehovah caused to be preached from 1918 onward the startling public message “Millions Now Living Will Never Die,” and in 1923 he provided the interpretation of “the parable of the sheep and the goats.” The foundation of this idea is good: that Jesus would inspect his congregation and act according to good judgment, and that his true followers would be tested and disciplined in order to meet the challenges of the last days. But notice how the idea that the Society is the representative of the Lord becomes a reason not to question even the specific dates assigned to such a doctrine, which would otherwise be a healthful teaching. Wicked, unfaithful Christendom denies the 1918 date and therefore they come under the judgment of Jehovah. It was Jehovah who caused the preaching of what we now know to be a false prophecy. So how could anyone have questioned a false prophecy or false doctrine under this kind of bullying pressure and name-calling?
As it turns out, of course, just a couple of years ago the Society finally dropped the idea that Jesus had come to his temple for a specific judgment in 1918. For that matter, the interpretation that Jehovah provided for the "the sheep and the goats" has also changed. There seems to have been an abuse of authority here that could be tied to the idea of "beating one's fellow slaves" as @Anna mentioned recently.
I think we have become much more sophisticated in our wording and presentation of this same idea, but the same idea has not changed much. Here are just a few small examples of how much "less sophisticated" it was in Rutherford's time.
Those Bible Students who publicly disagreed with Rutherford were branded "the evil slave" class. Yet, we today also find ourselves disagreeing with Rutherford on the pages of the same Watchtower. In Rutherford's day they published a book in 1917 that claimed that Russell was "Christ's representative in the world, the sole steward of the 'meat in due season.'" They kept selling that book until the early 1930's until "remaining stocks" were depleted. When Bible Students and even the newly named, "Jehovah's witnesses" asked if they should really be spreading false information among the unsuspecting public, Rutherford got angry, and the Bulletin (later, Our Kingdom Ministry) threatened the publishers by saying that if they went against Rutherford they were going against the Lord. But even less controversial issues were common. When the goals and quotas of special pioneers, regular pioneers and publishers were set, it was stated that these quotas were 'what the Lord wants.' Basically, if the Lord says pioneers need to get 100 hours a month, then, Who are we to go against the Lord? Even if we have become more sophisticated in our methods of producing this kind of theocratic world view, I see a danger in this. I think you can see it too.

This is how far sexual child abuse exploitation has gone. An innocent 9-year-old black child accidentally pumps a white woman’s behind with his backpack, and she called it sexual assault. This should demonstrate the over exaggeration and propaganda modern technology has made for those that want to seek the truth in a pile of lies.
 
The other thing no one has commented on, Women that sexually abuse children. Even the internet is biased if you google it. No one wants to believe that a woman could do such horrors when they're no different than men. Sexual appetite goes both ways, and if you look at history, twice on Sunday. How many female teachers have been caught having an affair with a student?
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime--law/palm-beach-gardens-woman-accused-sexually-abusing-child-for-years/NWDK1GXCzhLCLqT5ZkmcQO/
https://www.pe.com/2018/09/01/man-woman-in-adelanto-arrested-on-suspicion-of-child-sexual-abuse/
https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/33-year-old-woman-accused-of-sexually-assaulting-a-child
https://www.newsweek.com/mother-films-herself-sexually-abusing-her-young-children-please-men-she-meets-1145946
https://ktul.com/archive/woman-arrested-for-enabling-sexual-abuse-of-her-daughter
http://www.kulr8.com/story/38109913/cheney-woman-arrested-accused-of-molesting-child-on-camera
https://helenair.com/news/crime-and-courts/helena-woman-accused-of-delivering-girls-to-rapist-to-be/article_b171c1d2-b90d-5255-8266-f67fb44ef253.html
https://missoulian.com/news/local/montana-state-prison-female-prison-guards-fired-for-sexual-misconduct/article_0a2e25e4-2f8a-11df-9127-001cc4c03286.html
This one-sided argument does no one any good, get on with your lives, since women can be just as disgusting as men, no matter where you look, you’ll find it.
On another note.
The term restorationist, while it includes Bible students and Jehovah witnesses, doesn’t quite do justice to what the Watchtower really means and stands for.
 The early church father corrupted Jesus true definition with their interpretation of the apostle creed, which finds support even with Unitarians.
 Pastor Russell sought to go beyond the restorationist’s movement which is many since he saw the flaws within the restoration movement that he was determined to set the bible students apart from. So, restorationists with a twist of revisionism could probably describe the Watchtowers intent with this scripture. 1 Timothy 3:14-16
 This brings a more ecclesiastical balance to the truth and the way. The Watchtower has no intermediary other than Gods truth, and that’s the purpose of the Watchtower. How close can they come to Jesus words with what is known, and new things that are found, within linguistic and interpretation in the best possible way.

I understand that it is being discussed at World HQ running a special issue of the Watchtower, explaining the "signs from the heavens ..." that Hurricane Florence will be picking up sharks from the Atlantic Ocean, and dumping them in front yards, back yards, and on old peoples homes.
If at the Warwick GB conference room this is actually discussed, and it gets 67% of the votes of the GB, then this will be official "New Light".... "New Truth".
Absurd, you say?  No, No NO!
It follows well established patterns of reason and logic for over a HUNDRED YEARS  There is actually NO RISK to this as the credibility gap is WELL exceeded by the gullibility fill. 
Add to that is that if we refuse to believe it, we can be disfellowshipped for Apostasy, and that adds MASSIVE believability  in the real world .
Stay tuned to see if this report is true, or merely a satire.
 

Gravity Electricity Wind .mp4  
... and remember, when you vote for what is true .... vote early, and vote often !

It never ends.
Just when you think you have seen it all, heard it all, and read it all .... it NEVER ENDS.
 

Yes, the Millions campaign was the 1925 campaign. The 1918 sermon was based on the 1925 date as found in the 1917 book, "The Finished Mystery." The "canvas" offer for that book, remember, only required that people stay alive until 1925 in order to be among the "millions" who would never die.
By, 1920, the entire talk was published and expanded upon a bit, in the booklet "Millions Now Living Will Never Die." They would never die because millions of people alive in 1918 would still be alive in 1925. By 1921, the new book, "The Harp of God" came out, which also used the 1925 promises as a theme. In fact, note what is embossed on early covers of that famous book. If it's hard to read, it's repeated on the inside title page. "Proof Conclusive that Millions now Living will never Die." (This was removed in the 1928, 2nd edition.)

It was advertised in newspapers with the year printed in the advertisement. The following example from April 1921, saying: "to apply it to ourselves requires positive knowledge based upon indisputable evidence. Thousands of profound Bible scholars can prove from Bible prophecies which have been fulfiled during the last 5 years that those living until the year 1925 can live forever if they choose to do so." ". . . [H]ear and consider definite Scriptural proof for this proclamation."

 

Being rude, sarcastic, use ad hominem, insults, drama, procrastination, whatever else the mental state offers as an excuse, is very apparent here on a site that is supposed to be friendly to Jehovah’s Witnesses, and is responded by witnesses. I don’t know what kind of witnesses many of you think you are, a witness in good standing you’re not. Even if you are making it an excuse to further your bible teachings, honest and faithful Christians would amount to the discourse and rivalry that is expressed here in supporting the arguments former witnesses offer, and yet, openly agree that some of their arguments are valid when they all have been debunked.

Maybe the JW reformation group would be a more honest approach to relieve some of the anxieties some of you have by pretending to be witnesses. I really don’t understand who it is your fooling since nothing can be hidden from God. What possible good standing do you foresee, that would be in your favor in God’s Eyes. Not just as individuals, but as a faithful group that has the same assent toward each other as though they were married.

I  waited until you logged off. come on! we had a good thing going. Remember, wait awhile and log in again. That way we can pretend to be each other. LOL! ??

That’s right, those that stayed alive until 1975 got to be part of the 6000 years existence of mankind, and they also got to see the dramatic global changes that started humanity downward for the worse. So, yes! Stay alive until 1975.

True Christians became one step closer to God’s fulfillment. No one, but no one can change that with distorted Watchtower publications. People can read ALL of them in its proper context, and perhaps experience the delight 1975 brought to those loyally serving god. They savored and relished every minute of it. To know at some distant point, none of this will matter, for all of us will be judged according to our deeds.

There seems to be a disconnect when it comes to sincerity. Former witnesses here never have any.

No one here could possibly offend me Srecko. I can’t say that about me offending others because of my views, here. Cognitive Dissonance theory can be applied by those that are disheartened by my viewpoints. The truth usually hits at the heart of those that strongly oppose such logic.

A smear campaign only brings out to light, what Christ meant about negative discourse. Evil. If you place close attention to 1 Timothy 2:8–15, I mean really place close attention, then your theory is on solid ground. God made sure he thought about everyday problems with the best outcome. There is nothing that can’t be applied through scripture with the proper wisdom and reasoning.

This is why ad hominem attacks are a source of desperation to some, instead of frustration by others.

Since Anna spelled it that way, I am being polite not to go beyond your kind of grammar since it means so much too many of you. But, let me know who else I should be. Chime in anytime.

However, why don’t you explain to Anna the jubilee cycle, the restoration, and restitution idea about 1925, the correct way that is explained in the proclaimer’s book just fine?

Mind you, without attempting to hack my account, here. It's still against US law.

That’s good you feel you’re wasting God’s time. That’s the first honest thing anyone has said so far. As for wasting your time on humans, we all need to start with ourselves, then move on to a more progressive mental state where reasoning doesn't become a lack of conscience, and morals, not to man but to God. The sad thing, God holds standards for true Christians. He expects us to follow on Jesus example and obey biblical commands that are in black and white.

Anyone challenging those standards is simply telling God, I am a God as well, and I don’t need to subject myself to mortal men that you have assigned to carry your work. Let me know how God replies before judgment is set upon those that freely challenge his divine words. Matthew 6:33, James 1:2, Romans 12:2

Honest Christians will understand the bible script above. Although, Jesus made it a challenge to go beyond, and one step further in a symbolic way, Matthew 5:29. It works for all sorts of human behavior that people seem to think it only means for adultery. This is why God seeks spiritually mature people to take the lead, and we can’t will that pesky command away.

The point to look at, why would Jesus allow an infected part of his body to poison the rest of the body. Doesn’t a doctor that has a patient that developed gangrene find it a need to amputate that dead section before it affects other parts of the body or cause death? This is the logic that is being displayed here. Allow the gangrene in place to see what we can learn. So, let’s study it, by making claims and suppositions on how the doctors can learn without there being any mistakes on the proper treatment that is urgently needed. But, let’s see how far we can take it, by using false research before the patient dies.

I don’t find any of it funny, or see the humor about God holding us responsible for every human we drive away from learning about him and Christ. But, then again, I wouldn’t want to, and I’m certain God isn’t laughing either.

Therefore, I do understand that former witnesses carry a false narrative when it comes to 1925 and 1975. I do understand that the Watchtower never claimed Armageddon would come on those years, just like C.T. Russell never claimed it would come in 1914. So, I don’t dwell on false claims. Once in a blue moon, it will come out, and those that have an erred understanding will see for themselves, once the evidence is presented to them in the correct way.

Being rude, sarcastic, use ad hominem, insults, drama, procrastination, whatever else the mental state offers as an excuse, is very apparent here on a site that is supposed to be friendly to Jehovah’s Witnesses, and is responded by witnesses. I don’t know what kind of witnesses many of you think you are, a witness in good standing you’re not. Even if you are making it an excuse to further your bible teachings, honest and faithful Christians would amount to the discourse and rivalry that is expressed here in supporting the arguments former witnesses offer, and yet, openly agree that some of their arguments are valid when they all have been debunked.

Maybe the JW reformation group would be a more honest approach to relieve some of the anxieties some of you have by pretending to be witnesses. I really don’t understand who it is your fooling since nothing can be hidden from God. What possible good standing do you foresee, that would be in your favor in God’s Eyes. Not just as individuals, but as a faithful group that has the same assent toward each other as though they were married.

I  waited until you logged off. come on! we had a good thing going. Remember, wait awhile and log in again. That way we can pretend to be each other. LOL! ??

Sorry AS34/GR I didn’t mean to log in at the same time as you. My bad. I keep forgetting who’s who. I’m you, you are me. He is she, it is they, and they are them. As wrong as JWinsider is, he has a good imagination for conspiracies. LOL! People like Anna love it. Can you say secret lovers?
I couldn’t agree more. Perhaps it’s because you have about 4-5 people that make the environment here impossible to attach a righteous command by Christ of loving one another and holding the body of Christ in unity. There is no one else to blame. But we also need to keep in mind, there are plenty of opposers contributing to these contentious topics, and honest witnesses are not willing to defend their faith adequately. Therefore, who is worse and how does this affect the personal lives of those referring to themselves as True Christians. There seems to be an disconnect with the truth.

You misconstrue EVERYTHING.
I cannot help you.
You misconstrue EVERYTHING.
I cannot help you.

Being rude, sarcastic, use ad hominem, insults, drama, procrastination, whatever else the mental state offers as an excuse, is very apparent here on a site that is supposed to be friendly to Jehovah’s Witnesses, and is responded by witnesses. I don’t know what kind of witnesses many of you think you are, a witness in good standing you’re not. Even if you are making it an excuse to further your bible teachings, honest and faithful Christians would amount to the discourse and rivalry that is expressed here in supporting the arguments former witnesses offer, and yet, openly agree that some of their arguments are valid when they all have been debunked.

Maybe the JW reformation group would be a more honest approach to relieve some of the anxieties some of you have by pretending to be witnesses. I really don’t understand who it is your fooling since nothing can be hidden from God. What possible good standing do you foresee, that would be in your favor in God’s Eyes. Not just as individuals, but as a faithful group that has the same assent toward each other as though they were married.

So was that it? The "WILL" became a "MAY"?

No one here could possibly offend me Srecko. I can’t say that about me offending others because of my views, here. Cognitive Dissonance theory can be applied by those that are disheartened by my viewpoints. The truth usually hits at the heart of those that strongly oppose such logic.

A smear campaign only brings out to light, what Christ meant about negative discourse. Evil. If you place close attention to 1 Timothy 2:8–15, I mean really place close attention, then your theory is on solid ground. God made sure he thought about everyday problems with the best outcome. There is nothing that can’t be applied through scripture with the proper wisdom and reasoning.

This is why ad hominem attacks are a source of desperation to some, instead of frustration by others.

That's a good one. First I am Allan, now I'm somebody else. I think there is something wrong with the mental stability of some here when people are free to chime in whenever they want. I guess that means you are James and Srecko.
But, this distraction of yours seems to playout everytime you get caught in a deception. A Trump ploy.

Yeah ... why dwell on such things ... Like Adolph Hitler is reported to have said when Allied Forces were battling , forcing their way into Germany from both sides, destroying their cities while destroying their armies .... "Those Allies have ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE OF HUMOR!"
We should look at 1925 and 1975 as funny ... like Grandmother's continuous flatulating at the Kitchen Table.

Since Anna spelled it that way, I am being polite not to go beyond your kind of grammar since it means so much too many of you. But, let me know who else I should be. Chime in anytime.

However, why don’t you explain to Anna the jubilee cycle, the restoration, and restitution idea about 1925, the correct way that is explained in the proclaimer’s book just fine?

Mind you, without attempting to hack my account, here. It's still against US law.