4Jah2me

@Anna I don't think you answered the situation where by a person LEAVES the JW Org because they know about the disgusting things that go on in it, such as Child Sexual Abuse Earthwide. And they know about the false teachings which have been made so clear on this forum. And they do not want to teach lies to members of the public. What is your opinion then of such a person that leaves the JW Org of their own free will ? If they are to be treated as a 'tax collector' or a 'person of the nations' then shouldn't JWs talk to them ? Jesus spoke to and ate meals with such ones. Quote @Anna " The basics are in the Bible, for anyone to see " But JWs have to obey the GB's / JW Org rules, so your comment doesn't help.

Quote @Arauna " Probably the most superficial posting here on this forum because there is no concept of historical context. Always placing old articles and using modern laws and attitudes to defame Jws " Historical concept :- Acts 10 v 34 & 35. 34 At this Peter began to speak, and he said: “Now I truly understand that God is not partial, 35 but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. Add to this that :- Act 5 v 9 Berean Literal BibleBut Peter and the apostles answering said, "It is necessary to obey God rather than men. Now put those two together and you will get. If we are to serve GOD properly we must treat all people, of any colour, equally, because this is what God tells us to do. Even if it means disobeying the laws of men. ANYONE guided by Holy Spirit would have known what was the right and wrong of it all. Stop making excuses for the Bible Students and early Witnesses.

@Arauna And you have a blanket belief in your GB which you worship and the JW Org which you serve . You are soooooooo blind to the real truth that you have to pretend to yourself that anything spoken against the GB and its Org, is because of hate. You are not intelligent enough to comprehend real truth. You do not even reason with anyone. In case you forget what you have written :- Quote "What I do NOT understand is the logic of the men who hate JWs. " Then also quote :- "They try to prove that we are impure and allow homeosexuality (when we clearly do not) " Um, maybe try adding this bit to another topic on this forum which speaks about past GB members being Homosexual.

The GB NEED children to get baptised to try to keep them in the JW Org. Once baptised the threats start to kick in. We know that lots of people are LEAVING the JW Org, so GB are trying to keep the numbers up. A person can still be a 'publisher' on the ministry whilst not baptised, so why would anyone want to push their children into doing something that they are not able to comprehend ? Obvious answer, it's because the threats kick in when baptised. The Org has control over a baptised person. The 'rules' can only be pushed on someone that is baptised. The Elders can be pushy about baptised ones doing more hours in the ministry. Pushy about the way a person dresses. Pushy about association with non believers. But the Elders have no say on what an unbaptised person does, even though they might try.

@James Thomas Rook Jr. I believe this 'Rule Book' shifts the goal posts quite often, with updates on certain matters. Also as you say it is Elder's eyes only. So how do the congregants know proper the 'rules' then ? Surely each Elder could 'translate' the rules according to His own needs. And as you say 'Most JWs don't even know about that book. What does that show ? It shows that congregants are naive and blindly follow the words of the Elders. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Separate comment @Srecko Sostar John 10:16 Jesus said :- "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd." So there are two folds it seems. A fold can be a hollow in the ground, or a group of people. I always thought a 'fold' was a fenced area in a field or farm yard. My point is that i think the Greek scriptures are for the Anointed to follow more closely. The Anointed are in one fold, the earthly class in a different fold. But are one flock because they follow the one shepherd, Jesus Christ. However, i think God and Christ demand much more from the Anointed because this is the testing ground of the Anointed, here and now. The earthly class will get a thousand years to grow back to perfection, and then a final test.

I find you very amusing Mr Rook. It seems that you feel you can say things against your GB and its Org, but others should not. Come on, Holy Spirit is not like drinking a casual cup of coffee. Holy Spirit is a gift from Almighty God through Jesus Christ. I would at least expect to see some kind of positive result from it. Since the great disappointment of 1975, the Org has lost momentum, lost congregants, lost direction, changed it's teachings, is now losing money in multiple court cases, has lost credibility as to being a 'clean' 'wholesome' Organisation. It is stumbling and bumbling along. Being led by 8 men who are totally lost. Blind leading the blind, and oh what a pit they have fallen into. The very fact that you expect nothing, and get nothing, shows there is NO Holy Spirit in JW Org. I'm off to my kitchen to get a casual cup of coffee

I tend to think on things as being the tip of an iceberg And to be boring, this brings us back to that Database they are withholding. Oh what wonderful information must be in that 20 + year Database.

Well if half the GB in the past were Homosexuals it's no wonder the Org wants to keep it quiet

Quote " So why are you spending your daily life on websites such as this singling out Jehovah's Witnesses? " BECAUSE THIS IS A JW WEBSITE and therefore I talk about JWs. As for spending my daily life on here, wrong. It's Saturday and i haven't been on here since, Wednesday I think it was. My life is far too busy to spend too much time on here, Hence when i log on I find between ten and twenty comments that I've missed. And when three or more JWs on here say that, so and so has a 'hateful agenda', then it certainly looks like they are being parrots, so I call it brainwashed. Quote " And while I agree that mindless unquestioning obedience to whatever is said by imperfect, uninspired men won't always reach God's standards " Wow, we can actually agree on this. Quote "That is why JW's are known for being honest, truthful, law-abiding, loving, loyal, peaceful... " NO, that is what is shown on the outside of the dish. But Jesus said first wash the inside of the dish so that it will be completely clean.... Right now the 'world' is seeing inside the dish of JW Org. The GB's lawyers are being seen to tell LIES in courts. The truth is out about Child Sexual Abuse Earthwide, and about victims being disfellowshipped to get them out of the congregations and to stop other congregants talking to them. What is being seen is the lack of love, mercy, justice, truth, honesty and law abiding behaviour. I do wonder, when JWs are standing by the 'carts' with the literature, do they think it is because people are not interested in God that people walk straight past ? Well maybe people know of all the wickedness inside the JW Org, so people do not want to get involved. That maybe why they walk straight past. Because the JW Org brings shame on Almighty God.

IF holy spirit reached anyone in the JW Org it would be a great surprise to me. IF holy spirit reached the congregants then would they carry on serving the GB and the Org ? IF holy spirit reached the congregants then would they still go into the 'ministry work' teaching the LIES to other people ? Would congregants take on Bible Studies and teach LIES of men from books, by not using the Bible properly ? Would congregants encourage families into the K H knowing that there may be a paedophile in there ? Well the congregants would know about the paedophile situation, if the congregants were blessed with holy spirit. No, there is no holy spirit in the JW Org. If ever there was, which I cannot now believe, it has vanished. Almighty God has turned the 'tap' off. And you, Mr Rook, will know this more than I. Because you see the faults and lies, the injustice and lack of love, the lack of mercy, the man made rules as a heavy burden (as you mentioned).

It would be nice to see any written 'rules' made by the GB or others in regard to shunning a person that has left the JW Org. Maybe JW congregants should be issued with a GB rule book of do's and don'ts. That way every one would know exactly what procedure is right when serving the GB and it's Org. My feeling is that in the first century, all those that became true Christians, serving God through Christ, were of the Anointed, heavenly calling. Therefore it was more important for them to be 'without spot from the world'. So stricter discipline would be more acceptable to those of the Anointed class. 'To whom more is given, more will be demanded'. Hence IMO, the scriptures are written for the Anointed, and then the Anointed should teach the earthly class. (The GB are not of the anointed. By their works you will know them). So then @Srecko Sostar the questions would be more complicated. Should stricter rules apply to the Anointed than to the earthly class ? The Anointed should be inspired of holy spirit and capable of more self control........ All those scriptures were written by Anointed ones for Anointed ones at that time.

@the Sower of Seed If the GB were inspired by God's holy Spirit. If the JW Org was also inspired of God's Holy spirit. Then the things you write would be correct. IF YOU took some time to read some of the topics on here you would find the TRUTH about your GB and It's Org. IF YOU took some time to research information online. such as court cases which can be verified, then you would find out the TRUTH about your GB and it's Org. If you looked into the 'turnover' within the JW Org I think you would find one of the biggest turnovers of all religions. Unfortunately there is no way of knowing how many congregants leave the JW Org of their own choice, how many children are disfellowshipped and how many adults are disfellowshipped. And then of those adults disfellowshipped, there is no way of knowing who was unfairly disfellowshipped. So your idea of "Jehovah's Witnesses experience the highest form of happiness," is very untrue. The JW congregants do the will of the GB and it's management of 'overseers' / Elders. The congregants obey not God, but men.

@b4ucuhear OK, I'll agree to step back slightly as I may appear aggressive, whereas I just try to be assertive. I remember a scripture which say to 'keep oneself without spot from the world'. And reading through many comments on this forum I can see that the GB and the Org's line of management, do not keep themselves without spot from the world. You seem in line with Mr Harley when you say people have 'a hateful agenda', and this does truly show how the Organisation really does brainwash the congregants. It appears so often on here that anyone that finds faults with the GB and the JW Org seem to have a 'hateful agenda'. When in fact all of us are just humans, trying to live our daily lives. IMO, anyone that leaves the JW Org should just be treated as Jesus treated the tax collectors. Jesus would converse with them, eat meals with them, and wasn't Matthew a tax collector. But because the GB changed the way that the announcement was made from the platform, no one knows if a person has left or were d/fed. If a person leaves the Org, they are no longer 'calling themselves a brother/ sister' so that scripture would not apply, about not even eating with such ones. So why so much shunning? Quote "There are millions of JWs who are good people by any standard, " There is only one standard that is worthy of consideration, God's standard.......... And if JW congregants follow the GB / Elders / JW org without question, then they are not adhering to God's standard but man's. You are once again in line with @TrueTomHarley and @Arauna here with your idea of 'any standards', because it means you are comparing JW's with the standards of this wicked world. The cars I drive are cheap and nasty, but if, when the weather is wet and cold, I compare my cars to a bicycle, then my cars are wonderful, near perfect in fact. Do you get t he picture now ?

Spoken like a truly brainwashed Elder, well done. You point to all the faults, then say how wonderful these elders are. Quote "At times the leadings of holy spirit are easy to recognize and at other times not so much." That is so funny as I think it has been proven on here that neither God or Jesus Christ approve of the GB or the JW Org right now. So it would seem that NO holy spirit is flowing into the Org. God can withhold Holy Spirit you know . Using the old excuse of how many Witnesses there are and the world wide preaching, means nothing in numbers. There are millions of Catholics and millions of Muslims too earthwide. You would say that the devil is helping them, but i would say then prove the devil isn't helping JW's. After all you have admitted that the GB / Org : " Sometimes organizationally, we "go beyond the things written" as to dates, types and antitypes, times and seasons and even doctrinal issues. " So in other word the GB and it's Org has deliberately told lies. 'Gone beyond the things written', made up dates, and types/anti-types, and even questionable doctrine. So GB/JW Org is as bad as Catholics, Muslims et al, in those circumstances. But of course you are so deeply involved that you cannot see how bad the GB /Org is. And then, i think, one of the GB has said that God/Christ trust them, and GB member asks if congregants trust the GB........... So funny. Can you honestly not see this as funny. You point out some of the faults of the GB/Org, not including CSA and withholding information, homosexuals GB members, lawyers that tell lies in court, et al. And the GB want to know who trusts them

Unfortunately, we have had to learn the hard way what would have been the morally right thing in the first place. James 4:17 "Therefore, if someone knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him." I just love the way some JWs make up all the excuses, but then admit to the faults of the GB and It's Org. @b4ucuhear Unfortunately IT IS THE VICTIMS THAT HAVE SUFFERED, NOT THE GB OR IT'S ORG.