4Jah2me

will non-JWs survive Armageddon? When asked during the Australian Royal Commission, if the members of the Governing Body consider themselves to be God's spokesperson on earth, Geoff Jackson said, "That would be presumptuous of us" Indicating that perhaps Jehovah's Witnesses are not necessarily the only ones who recognize the TRUTH written in the bible. Well here at Mark 9 v 38 to 41 we have this conversation between Jesus and John. John said to him: “Teacher, we saw someone expelling demons by using your name, and we tried to prevent him, because he was not following us.” 39 But Jesus said: “Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one who will do a powerful work on the basis of my name who will quickly be able to say anything bad about me. 40 For whoever is not against us is for us. 41 And whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ, I tell you truly, he will by no means lose his reward. There are a few points to learn from in this scripture :- 1. It shows that Jesus allowed others, apart from those HE had sent out, to do powerful works in HIS name. 2. Those ones doing the 'powerful works' must have had the approval of Jesus and God because they were receiving Holy spirit to do such works. 3. Jesus said whoever is not against us is for us. And I think only those who are fighting against Jesus and God's will, are the ones that will be destroyed at Armageddon. 4. v 41 Is very powerful and tells us what we need to know. It makes no mention of belonging to a specific religion. Maybe the GB and JW Org are too self confident. Maybe JW Org will not even exist when Judgement Day arrives.

Now John Butler would have loved that comment

Did the 1st Century Christians cry out for Human Rights and Compensation ?

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I re-read what i wrote and stand by it. But if you wish to disagree that is your choice. (Free will) (As a side note, some folks don't like the word 'wrote' so replace with had written) As for your burblings about radioactive materials, um, trying to justify something here ? Great Britain was built on blood and slavery, as was America. But being no part of this world it does not give me a guilty conscience. I am a Christian that happens to live in England, and whilst I'm alive I have to live somewhere. I was also part of an Organisation that causes misery to hundreds or possibly thousands of children and adults. So I got out of that Organisation as soon as I had enough proof to satisfy myself that is wasn't all lies. So now I am no part of this world, and no part of that Organisation. It does leave me somewhat 'homeless' but it also gives me a clean conscience. Whereas you James, seem to be part of both the world and the Org. I think you call it reality ?

Any ideas why Aus info' went back 50 years but American database only goes back 23 years ?

Yes, tom is certainly not a 'spiritual man'.

In view of this it’s hard to deny that “the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place” is something directed against or directly affects God’s “holy people” in the manner described by Daniel's prophecy. (Mt 24:15) Well then it would appear to be the GB and JW Org, as they are acting against the true Anointed ones of the remnant. They have put the Elder body in place of the Anointed and have 'advised' the Anointed not to contact each other and not to have Bible studies together. The GB are a false prophet. All the things they have prophesied have not happened. They continue to change the interpretation of scripture and admit to not being inspired of God. They are indeed a 'disgusting thing.. standing in a holy place'.

So, is the individual killings by a soldier, that trespasses on another persons land to take possession of it, murder ? Surely it is premeditated killing. In Bible times the Israelites were told to give the enemy a chance to surrender before going in for the kill. But if an army of soldiers go straight in for the kill, just to take the land belonging to others, surely that is murder. Those soldiers know that they will be deliberately killing people. That is premeditated. And, it is also racist. For an army of soldiers to deliberately steal land from another nation, that army of soldiers must think they have more right to own that land. Therefore it shows that the army of soldiers are of a mind that their race is superior and has more rights than the other nation. That has to be racism. James there has to be a reason you are pushing your point of view on this so much. It brings forth the question, are you American or are you a Christian ?

But because you are all 'physical people' not 'spiritual people' you still all see it as a nothingburger as Mr Harley puts it. People have been 'killed' spiritually by being stumbled either by being abused, being a relative of the one abused, being disfellowshipped because of complaining of abuse, being shunned for complaining of abuse, but it's just a 'nothingburger' to you JWs, because you worship your GB and it's Org. Anna talks about legal rights. Tom dismisses it a a 'nothingburger'. It seems that none of you are seeing the spiritual wickedness (as well as physical wickedness) within JW Org. @JW Insider your comment comes closest to being balanced and showing what 'could have happened' from both sides. To quote "Some things seem very unlikely to us because we all have preconceived ideas about what such data would look like." I'm glad you can see that from both sides. But still it's just 'data' whereas the truth is it's REAL PEOPLE that have had their lives ruined. Anna says ""Evidence" is a lot more forgiving ". Um, evidence can be true or false. And in JW Org, using 'spiritual warfare', it is more likely to be false.

Well it shows Tom's view of the victims of CSA in JW Org. "a relative nothingburger". And poor old tom is still trying to twist things for his own advantage. Where is you honesty @TrueTomHarley ? Where is you truthfulness ? Where is you love and mercy ? Where is your true service to Almighty God ? Oh how you show your true colours, but then Christ knows your true intentions of the heart anyway. Quote @JW Insider " But it's not likely true that an ex-JW will automatically have a more balanced view. " Prejudiced or what ? And then you go on to list your reasons that Ex-JWs are not balanced . So be it, but Ex-JWs are not under the pressure that JWs are under from the Elders, Circuit Over seers et al. Now going back to the CSA, one of my points has always been not only who committed the dreadful crime of abuse, but also THOSE THAT COVERED IT UP.

Quote Anna " it seems the issue here is the American database. We are under NO obligation to hand over this database to lawyers, and if for some reason Lawyers do get a hold of them, then they are forbidden to make them public." Oh dear, the physical man verses the spiritual man or woman. Have you no idea what Jesus said about anything ? I'm not at all interested in the legal obligation. I'm interested in the spiritual things. What would Jesus want the GB to do, if you really think the JW Org belongs to God through Christ. ? ANNA burbles on about what the 'lawyers' want, but she forgets about what the GB Lawyers are doing and what they want. Quote "Most JW survivors are not interested in filing lawsuits.." JW's are told what to do and what not to do. There is a threat of retaliation by shunning or being disfellowshipped under false accusation. JWs are told to hide their feelings and 'leave it to Jehovah'. Quote Anna "In contrast, many ex-JW survivors want to sue the organization because they hate it and want to see it "burn". That's a Tom Harley line right there. I think you are taking lessons from Elder Tom. The truth is ex-JWs are not restricted by threats from the Elders of the congregation, they have found a relative 'freedom' outside the JW Org. So they have a more balanced viewpoint. But hard core JWs such as TTH and yourself do not want to see it that way. If they have a hate, it would probably be toward the paedophile that abused them and the Elders that hid the paedophile in the congregation. And it might possibly be that it was an Elder that was the paedophile. And, it might be that the paedophile abused more than one person because the Elders did nothing to prevent it. But then if the Elders were acting upon instruction from HQ then HQ would be to blame. As for the JW Org burning, it is already. It's burning slowly, but John Butler got d/fed from this forum for saying more, so I will stop here.

It seems it will never ever go away.

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Ex-Jehovah's Witness elder describes how he was abused by fellow worshipper as a boy John Viney was a church elder when his own daughter revealed she had been assaulted by her uncle. Now the 67-year-old has described how he himself was systematically abused for five years.

Um, sick me thinks. But everyone's 'real world' is different. Even the members of a family all living in one house. My 'real world' is very simple. because i make it that way. Therefore my 'real world' is quite peaceful and relaxing. No longer living by man made fake religious rules has made my 'real world' very different. Whilst I watch others still worrying and frightened of breaking those man made rules. But spiritual thinking is above the devil's real world. And why would i even want to be thinking about that world. All earthly governments / politicians / news media / protest groups et al, all belong to the devil's real world. The internet in bombarded with it all. It's almost unavoidable to see but no one needs to dwell on it. Just one point though : To quote you " Although I try to live my life according to Bible Standards, " But whose version of Bible Standards do you try to live by ? Is it the GB's / JW Org version, or your own version ?

You play the same old record but you have no proof at all. Tom you do not know who has or is committing the abuse in JW Org. 1. Because it is hidden in congregations around the Earth 2. Because the GB / Lawyers are still hiding that 23 year American JW Database. So how can you know Tom ? You just make it up as you go along, and most times it's just to promote your own books. Very selfish Tom.

Yes James but I'm trying to think from a spiritual aspect. But I'm beginning to wonder James, are you one of Jehovah's Witnesses or not ? And what do think the real 'time of the end' will be like ? Do you think all God's people will be sat in their homes drinking coffee whilst all the 'wicked' are being 'removed' outside ? I do remember the JW video of all the bros and sis hiding in the basement when the soldiers come looking for them. I'm hoping to be dead and buried before the Judgement Day arrives.