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César Chávez

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  1. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Kick_Faceinator in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    Jesus commanded us to not go after anyone who claims the end is here, aka “the time is at hand”.
    “And he said, “See that you are not led astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and, ‘The time is at hand!’ Do not go after them.” Luke 21:8
    According to Jesus, we are commanded to not listen to the governing body, we are commanded to not listen to JW’s, and we are commanded to not listen to anyone else who’s proclaiming the one message Jesus said to not proclaim, “the time is at hand”. If we do listen to these men, it proves we are being disobedient to Jesus. Is it really something so simple as a wrong prediction, or, is it rather a blatant disregard for Jesus’ command?


  2. Confused
    César Chávez reacted to JW Insider in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    I'm sure you are aware of this, but there have been multiple times when you have said things like what you just said here. It can indicate that you do not believe we have currently reached the time of the harvest. Scripturally, of course, this is a strong possibility. But you probably know that the Watchtower teaches that we have been in the harvest since 1914:
    *** w2020 May p. 9 Rival Kings in the Time of the End ***
    1914 ONWARD
    Harvest season; weeds separated from wheat
    It is also possible to find a scriptural precedent for the idea that the harvest can cover a period of time, and does not just refer to the time when the wheat and weeds are finally separated.
    (Matthew 9:37, 38) . . .Then he said to his disciples: “Yes, the harvest is great, but the workers are few. 38 Therefore, beg the Master of the harvest to send out workers into his harvest.”
    I hoped you would clarify your own view.
  3. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    If the Leaders of the Watchtower / JW Org had of thought that way then they would never have made false predictions and never have seen themselves as prophets. 
    It was a pleasure dissecting you long comment because I have shown the falsehood that you try to display as truth. 
     
  4. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    This one sentence says two different things. It twists the actual meaning of the sentence. 
    Second section " even let yourself be wronged to keep the peace. " Yes I'm sure we all 'let things just go by' to keep the peace. 
    However first section Sometimes it's right to be wrong. Now that is something completely different.  It can never be right to deliberately be wrong. That is just trying to make an excuse for the Leaders of the Watchtower / JW org. Saying they are right to get things wrong. Complete hogwash of course. 
  5. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    And the GB / Watchtower / JW Org is now finding this to be true.  
  6. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Kick_Faceinator in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    The Watchtower teaches:
    "Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.19
    According to Watchtower doctrine, this means all those disfellowshipped by the elder body and announced from the platform as “no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses”, would ultimately be sentenced to death stripping any future prospect of life for that person. In effect, the elder body actually believe they have the right to “save your soul”.
  7. Downvote
  8. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    Very well said xero.  So by going to a Kingdom Hall and more importantly doing the door to door pedaling of the Watchtower magazine you are "willfully placing yourself is a bad situation and you deserve whatever beatings come your way, even annihilation". 
    I'm glad you realise those things, so you will have no excuse come Judgement time. 
  9. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    Only because the Watchtower was using it to mean them as a group of people, rather than an individual. 
  10. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Witness in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    And what would that be?  Is it because...This “prophet” is an organization of people, led by false prophets?
     
    Definition:  “a person who predicts the future- a prophet of doom”
    “The definition of a prophet is someone who teaches or spreads the word of God, or is someone who claims to make predictions about what will happen in the future”
    "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end to the world," even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The "end" did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them." Awake! 1968 Oct 8 p.23
    Anyone who prophesies falsely is a false prophet; thus your organization and its leaders are false prophets, even still.  
     
     
     
  11. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Matthew9969 in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    I'm not judging, this is one of your beliefs right out of your publications.
  12. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Witness in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    You seem to emulate the opinion of your leader, Tony Morris:
    “The final end of God’s enemies.  It can be very encouraging, albeit sobering…(Ps 37:20) Since they’re Jehovahs enemies, and Jehovah is our best friend, that means they’re our enemies. How we look forward to these enemies of Jehovah, our enemies vanishing like smoke.   
    Fire would be a suitable means of eliminating such refuse.  What the fire would not consume the maggots would.  Now, I don’t know if you know much about maggots, you see a whole bunch of them…it’s not a pleasant sight; but what a fitting picture of the final end of all of God’s enemies. 
    Sobering yet something we look forward to.
    …they’re finally gonna be gone, all these despicable enemies that have just reproached Jehovah’s name, destroyed, never ever to live again.  Now its not that we rejoice in someone’s death, but when it comes to God’s enemies, finally, they’re out of the way…especially these despicable apostates who at one point had dedicated their life to God and then they joined forces with Satan the devil, the chief apostate of all time.” 
    The match trick followed.  His words slurred a few times during his speech.   I'm sure there's a very valid reason for that.   Perhaps he should take your advice and focus on his own offensive, disgusting behavior deviating from God's standards, presuming to be clean and already "saved", I'll add.  
    I do believe he means those  who “at one point” had dedicated their lives to the organization.  Yet, it is very true, once many people are done with the Wt., they become atheists.  They had enough of oppressive religion built on lies.  
  13. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Matthew9969 in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    Why would Jehovah send the holy spirit to an organization that would reject him like the govern body has?
  14. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    If a person didn't judge in some way then they would not know right from wrong.  For instance if a person didn't judge they could simply become a Catholic, maybe because their parents were or a friend is.  And be honest the GB / JW Org has judged the Catholic church and other religions many times. Some JWs on here regularly judge other religions when making comparison to JW Org.  
    And being disgusted by Pedophilia seems right in my eyes, as I'm sure it is in the eyes of God and Christ. 
  15. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Matthew9969 in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    Again, I have never seen aggression as your describing. and are you aware the watchtower is claiming they are clergy in court cases?
  16. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    Is there one ?  Certainly not a JW Kingdom Hall where pedophiles frequent. 
     
    The scriptures say that God takes NO pleasure in the death of anybody. Whereas the GB and it's many companies seem to take pleasure in threatening ex congregants in any way they can.  And try to blackmail other people into joining those companies / orgs.
     
  17. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Kick_Faceinator in They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)   
    Not really. Somewhere down the line watchtower got mixed up in thinking their organization can offer the same salvation as Jesus Christ. According to the Bible, it’s only Jesus Christ who can save. “Only Jesus has the power to save! His name is the only one in all the world that can save anyone” Acts 4:12 [CEV]
  18. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Kick_Faceinator in RECOGNIZING THE WOLF   
    Are the remnant of Israel the chosen covenant and the survivors of the house of Jacob the unchosen? Or do both groups refer to the chosen covenant?
  19. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Witness in RECOGNIZING THE WOLF   
    Isa 10:20 - "On that day the remnant of Israel and the survivors of the house of Jacob will no longer depend on the one who struck them, but they will faithfully depend on the Lord, the Holy One of Israel."
  20. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in RECOGNIZING THE WOLF   
    @Witness has clearly shown, as have many others, that the GB / Watchtower / JW Org  have for many years cried 'Wolf'
    How is crying Wolf helping anyone to know the true GOD ?   Crying wolf in the case of the GB & Co has meant that those humans have decided that ‘My master is delaying '    (Matthew 24 : 48)
    The GB now "starts to beat his fellow slaves "  (Matthew 24 :49
    I do think that an organisation is necessary, but it has to be an honest, clean organisation, led by True Anointed ones. And more importantly it has to be led by God through Christ and with Holy Spirit. 
    A true organisation would be recognised by it's WORKS. True worship of God through Christ and true honest teachings. And free of immorality. It would be an 'open' organisation that wasn't afraid to give details of how it was run. And all immorality would be made known to the congregations, and immoral ones would be removed unless truly repentant. By being truly open and all things made known, then others could take the necessary precautions to avoid immoral ones. That would allow congregants to know the big difference of sin or minor weakness. All this would be possible through holy spirit if the organisation was truly God's organisation through Christ. 
    There would be no more crying 'Wolf' because the True anointed would wait for true instructions from Christ through Holy Spirit. Remember the words of Jesus to the Anointed 
    John 14 : 13 & 14
     "Also, whatever you ask in my name, I will do this, so that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son. 14  If you ask anything in my name, I will do it."
    You see, JESUS will provide TRUTH to the TRUE ANOINTED ones. So when there is a true organisation, then there will be true teachings and true servants of Almighty God'
    The Earthly class must 'go with' the spiritual Jew, that is the True Anointed. 
     
  21. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Witness in RECOGNIZING THE WOLF   
    g93 3/22 p. 3
    THE story is told of a boy who watched the sheep of the villagers. To stir up a bit of excitement, one day he cried out, “Wolf! Wolf!” when there was no wolf. The villagers rushed out with clubs to drive off the wolf, only to find that there was none. It was such great fun that later on the boy repeated his cry. Again the villagers rushed out with their clubs, only to discover that it was another false alarm. After that a wolf did come, and the boy sounded the warning, “Wolf! Wolf!” but the villagers dismissed his cry as another false alarm. They had been fooled too often.
    So it has become with those who proclaim the end of the world. Down through the centuries since Jesus’ day, so many unfulfilled predictions have been made that many no longer take them seriously.
    Does the failure of such predictions to come true convict as false prophets those who made them, within the meaning of Deuteronomy 18:20-22? That text reads: “The prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: ‘How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?’ when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak.” 
    There are some who make spectacular predictions of the world’s end to grab attention and a following, but others are sincerely convinced that their proclamations are true. They are voicing expectations based on their own interpretation of some scripture text or physical event. They do not claim that their predictions are direct revelations from Jehovah and that in this sense they are prophesying in Jehovah’s name. Hence, in such cases, when their words do not come true, they should not be viewed as false prophets such as those warned against at Deuteronomy 18:20-22. In their human fallibility, they misinterpreted matters.
     
    We can see the Wt is trying to remove itself from being labeled “false prophets”. Does this mean that God also has turned a blind eye to their many failed predictions as they have done?
    The leaders of “Israel” and all anointed (New Jerusalem/holy city) are to bear the name of God, symbolically. (Jer 25:29; Dan 9:18)  Anything that comes out of their mouths is to be in truth with Jesus Christ’s teachings. But are they?  Jesus tells us that we can detect the false teachers/prophets from the genuine teachers he has sent, by what comes out of their mouth, what “fruit”/teachings they have produced.  (Matt 7:15-19)  In Matt 7:15, Jesus calls them “false prophets" - "ravaging wolves". 
    The second key to labeling the leaders of the organization as false prophets is their “voicing expectations based on their own human interpretations.”  God calls these ones, false prophets, because they are “prophesying” and filling their hearers with false hopes…as well as grabbing the attention and a following of those witnessed to, as in the house-to-house work. 
    “This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord.”  Jer 23:16
    “Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”  2 Pet 1:20,21
    Can an organization claim to be guided by Holy Spirit when every prophesy made, was at the will of a human and not the will of God?  
     “Offer yourself as a role model of good actions. Show integrity, seriousness, 8 and a sound message that is above criticism when you teach, so that any opponent will be ashamed because they won’t find anything bad to say about us.”  Titus 2:7-9
     
    It is a lie that the WT has never called itself "prophets".  Wt. 1972 Apr 1 pp.197-199 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them'
    False Prophets:  Malachi 3:18 - http://pearl-distinction.blogspot.com/
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

  22. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to TrueTomHarley in IICSA: survivors speak of influence of religion   
    Sigh...I’m afraid our boy is not really happy unless he is fighting. 
    He reminds me of a certain old-timer, long since (thankfully) dead, who in the ministry would bypass area after area of common ground to find one of contention, then he would bang away at that one area until the householder slammed the door on him. Nobody wanted to work with him.
    Who knows where that disposition came from?
  23. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to xero in IICSA: survivors speak of influence of religion   
    I'm actually feeling kindly towards you for suggesting I might be like Tom. We need more brothers like Tom. Irregardless of what "some" may think.
  24. Like
    César Chávez reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in IICSA: survivors speak of influence of religion   
    With those words you condemn yourself 
  25. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in IICSA: survivors speak of influence of religion   
    That's because you are an Elder working for the GB, so you wouldn't know a True Anointed person if you met them. 
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