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César Chávez

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  1. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to JW Insider in Watch Tower Ups Pressure on YouTube & Facebook To Hand Over Infringers’ Details   
    I think he is generally right about the Witnesses and we will continue to benefit for as long as he is successful in his attempts to promote a more balanced view of NRMs. (And you are right, of course, that he rarely considers specific doctrines, except to tone down the more radical-sounding ones, such as "space alien" beliefs by the Scientologists to put them in a more palatable light.)
    But he tends to pigeonhole all news items through the same formula or filter without considering possible contradictions. Here is an example below from the topic of "Violence and NRMs" but which he applies analogously to fake or highly biased news stories, negative news stories, propaganda against NRMs, etc. 
    With respect to violence for example, he usually itemizes like this:
    1. Violence perpetrated by NRMs against outsiders and their own members (and this includes sexual violence, such as by pedophile priests in non-NRMs).
    2. Violence falsely ascribed to NRMs.
    3. Violence against NRM's, often fueled by hate speech, which can result in both individual cases of violence against them, violence by other groups, and even state-sponsored persecution, "economic violence," etc.
    Of course, #1 is always downplayed of course as the fault of individuals, not the NRM, and often compared to a greater frequency in traditional religions. #2 is always up-played, even at times when his own evidence is questionable. And #3 is usually true, but he is too anxious to accept any and all news items that fit #3 unquestioningly.
    When he tries to argue that there is more violence in traditional religions, he regularly points to Islamic extremists and terrorism. But he misses a point here which is common to Westerners who love to hate Islam as a religion altogether. Hate speech against Islam as if it were some homogeneous whole is even common in American and Western media outlets.
    The problem or contradiction here is expressed on a site that uses one example of Islamic extremists [emphasis mine]: https://www.radicalisationresearch.org/research/shterin-2011-reconsidering/
    Secondly, in addition to the above case-study, by scholars who know the region and language well, this paper uses the above example to show how the path to violent radical behaviour cannot be explained through simplistic labelling of groups as ‘extremist’, ‘radical’, ‘Salafi’, ‘Islamist’, ‘Wahhabi’ or other similar terms which were used by the Russian government and media at the time (and indeed still are in many countries). The authors point to the need to understand the local context in which radical beliefs are developed and expressed, and the benefits of comparative studies of these details to better understand the significance of causal elements.
    Thirdly, and perhaps of most interest to readers not seeking to learn more about this region of the Northern Caucasus, is how the authors demonstrate this comparative approach in practice. Drawing on a range of academic literature about New Religious Movements (NRMs) they argue that the KBJ should not be seen as indicative of ‘Radical Islam’, but rather as an example of an NRM. The authors argue that the contemporary focus on ‘radicalisation’ tends to delegitimise non-violent radical beliefs, proscribing social and political behaviour which “have long been part and parcel of the youthful desire to make a difference” in liberal democracies. The authors point to NRM studies that show that frequently members of NRMS are not victims of, but actually pro-active participants in, these movements who join out of their own choice. NRM studies also shed light on how NRMs can potentially move to violence through a cycle of reciprocal mistrust and hostile actions with the surrounding society and authorities. For such groups, violence is a relational and processual development, and understanding the context of that development could help prevent their repeat in future cases.
    The authors showed that the KBJ continuously interpreted their beliefs in reaction to the experiences within the group and between it and the wider society.
    Similarly, he appears to fall into his own prejudices by not considering the potential propaganda and fake news stories often promoted by the NRMs themselves. I believe that several of these have been promoted by Scientology. Personally, I believe that many politically ideological "NRMs" in many countries are exactly the same as religious NRMs, and can result in violence in the same manner, and fake news defense of that violence in the same manner. In the United States the "cult of Trump" also resulted in some violence and defense of the same.
  2. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to JW Insider in Watch Tower Ups Pressure on YouTube & Facebook To Hand Over Infringers’ Details   
    As an aside, I found an interesting page on CESNUR:
    https://www.cesnur.org/2019/turin_introvigne_scientology.pdf
    ... raids against NRMs are often conducted with unnecessary real and symbolic violence even in democratic countries –and Scientology is the most raided NRM on an international scale
    ...
    Russia is another country persecuting some NRMs, including Scientology. In 2018, Western media reported that in St Petersburg, lawyers of incarcerated members of the Church of Scientology were given materials of the criminal investigation that included comments by the FSB investigator. The comments included: “He knows a lot, but keeps quiet –reinterrogate with an electric aid to memory.” There is no evidence that actual torture occurred, but the fact it was contemplated as a possibility is disturbing, also in view of allegations of torture by Russian Jehovah’s Witnesses

  3. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to TrueTomHarley in Watch Tower Ups Pressure on YouTube & Facebook To Hand Over Infringers’ Details   
    Is this when Bro Brumley was photographed at a conference and opponents made a big fuss about it because Scientologists were there, too? 
    “Relax, he keyed their cars in the parking lot,” I replied to one of them.
  4. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Anna in Watch Tower Ups Pressure on YouTube & Facebook To Hand Over Infringers’ Details   
    Hey brother, don't be so hard on yourself! I've noticed that people in general have no time....really. I'm a prime example, I have books on my to read list (including yours) and have I read them, nope, not a single one...yet. I wanted to start a topic on here the other day, but other (more important) stuff got in the way. In fact the days run into each other so fast and before you know another week is gone. I swear time is running faster. I think if we ever get put in jail I will beg them to let me access all the books I have wanted to read....
  5. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to TrueTomHarley in Watch Tower Ups Pressure on YouTube & Facebook To Hand Over Infringers’ Details   
    Do you remember the Twilight Zone in which the henpecked bank employee would retreat into the vault for some peace and quiet during lunchtime? While doing so, the vault was rocked, and upon emerging, he saw that the world had ended—everything was in ruins. Far from being alarmed, he was delighted, for now he could read in peace, free from his nagging boss and wife. 
    Then he broke his glasses.
  6. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Anna in Watch Tower Ups Pressure on YouTube & Facebook To Hand Over Infringers’ Details   
    Not sure I understand what you are saying is embarrassing. Is it because of course it's bad that ANYONE should suffer the bad consequences of cultish behavior, regardless whether they are members or outsiders. Is that what you mean?
  7. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to TrueTomHarley in Watch Tower Ups Pressure on YouTube & Facebook To Hand Over Infringers’ Details   
    The uncommon good sense of the former to realize that just because you don’t like a faith, that doesn’t mean it should be illegal.
    In applying this to Jehovah’s Witnesses, you have chosen the one example, almost the only one you could have chosen, which disproves the point. To make it fit, you must find a group that commits atrocities.
    I may disagree with what Srecko says, but darned if I’m going to die for it. If he wants to utter inanities, its on him.
  8. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Srecko Sostar in Watch Tower Ups Pressure on YouTube & Facebook To Hand Over Infringers’ Details   
    Are Voltaire's texts a recommended read for JW members?
    Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
    Judge a man by his questions rather than by his answers.
     
  9. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to TrueTomHarley in Watch Tower Ups Pressure on YouTube & Facebook To Hand Over Infringers’ Details   
    Knowledge and research in regard to what? In regard to specific doctrine, or in regard to religious freedom? Some here are trying to turn this into a discussion of JW doctrine, even trying to assign that task to the Court, if not declare it negligent for not going there. If I am right, Massimo interests himself in doctrine not to press for its validity, but only to ascertain that it is innocuous enough to be allowed to stand unmolested.
  10. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Srecko Sostar in Watch Tower Ups Pressure on YouTube & Facebook To Hand Over Infringers’ Details   
    It is well known that JWs do not consider themselves as a cult. But they are not considered self to be a “new religion”, also,  because they claim their roots go all the way back to Abel. The cooperation between CESNUR and WTJWorg is based on which premise? That the JWs are a “new religion” but not a cult, however, also with a strong belief that they originated from the faithful Abel, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, which put them in the "oldest religion in the world?
    It follows from this collaboration with CESNUR that WTJWorg is willing to put JW in the status of a “new religion” because of opportunism, and thus renounces its supposedly unique origins dating back to the first days of man’s origin.
    The question of evil is not only a theological question, but also a philosophical one. From the aspect of the interpretation of the Biblical writings we come to the idea that the so-called "universal question aka issue" about which (1,2, or 3 "issue" or questions in WTJWorg theology about evil*) has long been answered by both humans and angels and by the Only Begotten Son. Well, the JW doctrine of why evil exists and why God allows it to this day and to an unknown day in the future is neither a satisfactory nor a solid doctrine. It is "light" that sometimes is in collision to other Bible records and events and even to some promises made by writers in God's name.   
    *The Issue That All Creation Has to Face  - https://www.jw.org/hr/biblioteka/knjige/Ujedinjeni-u-obožavanju-jedinog-pravog-Boga/Sporno-pitanje-s-kojim-su-suočena-sva-stvorenja/
  11. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Pudgy in Conscience individual and collective   
    From your own perspective, quoted above, you greatly esteem being a witness to the Watchtower, and consider those that are not to be witnesses of Satan.
    I suspect those you accuse are just trying to "get by" .... hoping to someday achieve the goal of being Witnesses to Jehovah.
    ....there IS a difference.
     
  12. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Pudgy in Conscience individual and collective   
    ... I expect you will certainly miss the irony of your statement.
  13. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Pudgy in Conscience individual and collective   
    ... and you, Ceser,  are ALSO wrong about wolves not needing a veterinarian.
    We have coyotes where I live and they are a miserable lot ... full of ticks, fleas, intestinal and heart worms and parasites, and dozens of others; infections of every sort, crippled, on the verge of starvation, their skin and fur with open sores, mange and other diseases. Even Rabies.
    How does it feel to be wrong about EVERYTHING, because of malicious bitterness?
     
  14. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Pudgy in Conscience individual and collective   
    Well ... the Brothers in Russia were arrested and convicted and are now serving sentences for being terrorists/extremists, and the enemys of civilization ... none of which are true. Witnesses are the most sheeplike persons on Earth, although that is not an exclusive club.
    Years ago we studied the differences between a reproach (accusation), and a reproof (conviction) .... but that must have been before your time, Seezer, as it is apparent you do not know the real life difference.
    Even with the Brother's convictions in Russia, they are still in reality free from any reproach or accusation by virtuous men who know the difference.
    You destroy any credibility you might have had with wild accusations at EVERYBODY, and calling virtuous Brothers with a viewpoint that does not agree with yours sons and daughters of Satan.
    ..... such is the stuff witch hunts are made of.
     
     
  15. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Pudgy in Conscience individual and collective   
    You are living in a fantasy world.
    How many times do wolves get to a veterinarian?
  16. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Pudgy in Conscience individual and collective   
    Then both of you have my profound sympathies.
  17. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Pudgy in Conscience individual and collective   
    That is true .....  but I do recognize hateful, unhappy bitterness and malicious insulting insecurity in humans.
    Your misery screams out ahead of you like a runaway locomotive approaching a bridge-out.
  18. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Pudgy in Conscience individual and collective   
    If you are "wisdom personified" I will pass ......
    Even dogs, disgusting as we are, know not to be hateful, insulting, vindictive and malicious.
    Willy-Nilly, most people LIKE dogs, because we are naturally happy!
    Your misery screams out ahead of you like a runaway locomotive approaching a bridge-out.
  19. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Pudgy in Conscience individual and collective   
    The same way you tip a cow?
    (... sneak up on them at night and push them over.)
  20. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to TrueTomHarley in Conscience individual and collective   
    Seven people tagged but you didn’t say goodbye to Cesar.
    He has feelings, too, you know.
  21. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Pudgy in Conscience individual and collective   
    ...so did Quisling, former Prime Minister of Norway during the Nazi Occupation, EVEN when he was executed by firing squad by the Norwegian people.
    ...and to be fair ... if anyone attacks you. it's not really you that they are attackng ... its your goofball ideas. philosophy, and general hatefulness toward them.
  22. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Pudgy in Conscience individual and collective   
    I personally do not mind if you are here. or anywhere at all. I just come here, expecting you to stroke out in mid typed sentence.
  23. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to xero in Conscience individual and collective   
    Even though we're not supposed to be political, I've noticed that I can still detect leanings in the friends. But then again, it's not as if god's kingdom isn't a government with a history behind it's development and an agenda for the future, but I do see some who cherry pick ideas here and there to support their wankish condemnations of others, often while doing so betraying more of the issues they'll eventually have to deal with than those these look w/either an envious or jaundiced eye down upon.
     
  24. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Pudgy in Conscience individual and collective   
    I understand from the Hamster and Gerbil Underground that they have a contract out on you.
  25. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Conscience individual and collective   
    I have changed my name from 4jah2me to Patiently waiting for Truth. 
    Nothing hidden, just a name change. 
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