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Leander H. McNelly

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  1. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to Arauna in 1914   
    That cliche is happening right now!  The whole world is repeating the same history we saw before WW1 and WW2 right now!!. It looks different on the surface but yet the same....... so they will wake up too late.  Wicked mankind is doomed to repeat the same history over and over with worse results than ever before. 
    We should know our own JW history with its flaws but endless analyses  on it does not serve a purpose - each generation  of GB will make new mistakes and if your expectations are that the JW.org. will not make new mistakes or cannot make them  - think again. 
    Thankfully there are several  ibble principles we can apply to this:  jehovah judges the end of a matter not its beginning.  Wicked king  manasseh  comes to mind.
    Jehovah does not see the imperfection but the motive of the heart. Ps 103 comes to mind - he remembers we are flesh.  The world judges JWs harshly on every little detail but jehovah judges us with tenderness because we try hard to do his will in an increasing hostile world.  Jesus was perfect and was viciously attacked by satan's world -  we also  will not get off lightly
    The light is getting brighter - and JWs are fulfilling bible prophecy related to the last days   Matt 24:14,  Isaiah 2:2-4.  Other Christian religions do not even  understand that the kingdom is a real government and those that do have some other core beliefs that do not come from the bible.
    We should be thankful to jehovah.  We get food that is prepared  in abundance. We get home from work, prepare litteral food, and can sit down with spiritual food already prepared in easy understandable bites/bytes..
    We search for people with the right heart condition. We teach them the newest  bible information we have because this is what we as JW org are right now and  the light we understand at this moment.  We make them aware of our flawed past but to dwell on the past JW history is a mistake.  There are too many positive core teachings the person will not be able to learn from ANY other earthly organization and we must let them eat this first so they can make a decision to join us to serve jehovah  -  or not.  Lot's wife looked back to her detriment.  We must leave our own personal history behind (what high positions we had or could have been, or wicked history ) and focus on the now and the future.  JW  org history is good to know but does NOT affect what we are right now. Mistakes were made and they will definitely come back to bite us in a hostile world - for sure. But we should build our own faith now to withstand the trials ahead.
    People who come to this forum to troll or hate - do not have a ready heart.   On field service we go back to those who show a positive attitude or are prepared to learn despite them having difficult personalities .  We help those who are ready to receive help.  With difficult people I make sure to leave a thought they can think about to change their heart condition. We plant and jehovah makes it grow - or not.....
    Keep evaluating what is taught in the present era - if it is in line with scripture.  Are the GB careful in what they teach today? Not getting political? Sticking to the godly commission of preaching and giving proper spiritual food to all?   Preparing us to be ready for Armageddon?  Not rushing ahead with dates and prophecies like they did before?  I can answer a yes to all of these.
     
    106 years is nothing to jehovah.  I do not know how long before the flood Noah had completed the ark.   Food had to be harvested etc. They could have been mocking him saying:  where is the rain you promised...... your ark has been standing there for so long.... maybe the wood aged a bit in its positions and additional bitumen was needed.  120 years jehovah set for that doomed generation. Did Noah know it was 120 years? Maybe not..... but later he knew because it is written down.  
    The world is mocking us right now.  I love to study ancient history and discovered one aspect  of generation before the GB.   There are multiple generations always living at the same time.  This never bothered me because like Noah we should keep busy with the right things. The evidence around us is overwhelming.  We have been trained by GB to discern the time! ....a d to keep busy with the right things.
  2. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in 1914   
    The reasons of strict attention to history is this:
    If you do not know and understand history ... you are DOOMED to repeat it.
    This is based on the FALSE premise that you are limited to do only one thing, or the other thing.
    Since you are not concerned with our history ... you are doomed to repeat it.
    ..... as you have just demonstrated.
  3. Like
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to Arauna in 1914   
    I remember when the catholic church changed fish-Friday to non-fish Friday.  My grandmother did not understand it but she just went ahead and did it. She stopped eating only fish on fridays.  No-one in the catholic church now goes back in the history of the catholic church to question that decision/teaching in an endless fashion. It has been accepted as being in line with scripture - so there is no endless rehashing of when the decision was taken and why they had it wrong before that change, who had it wrong etc. It is church history - the past.
    Catholics are now questioning the new decision to have interfaith with other Abrahamic religions. Is it wrong of them to rather question what the church is doing right  now instead of the past?   I think not.  Past  improvements  are accepted and they strive to correct any deviations from gods word in the "current view" of things. 
    Frankly, I do not care if Russel did not understand 1914 or not. I was not living at the time and it does not affect me now. People try to hash it up over and over to prove what?  It is NOW part of our teaching and I accept the teaching.  The reasons I will not go into here. 
    I look at what the GB is teaching NOW because this is affecting us  NOW.  They have made mistakes in the past but so has every other  religion I know of and  most large secular corporations have  absolutely endless issues - it is life.  Most of my working life I saw large issues everywhere - so I have never had the expectation of earthly perfection from ANY organization be it religious or secular. 
    I  therefore will only question teachings which are NOW part of the JW organization.   History is history and if it happens to fit in with past prophecies I will accept it I.e. the swift leopard beast with one big horn which is interpreted as Alexander the great. I accept the explanation because it fits the history.
    We have the current teaching of the slave feeding domestics. Do I accept this when I read Matt 24:45 - yes or no.  If I accept it and get baptised - why will I start questioning it and its history in the congregation and cause dissent?  If I currently do not agree with my own previous decisions regarding JWs - then i can of free will leave the congregation and find a place where they have all the CORE teachings of the JWs without the teaching of the slave - but  i should not keep rehashing history and become a murmering  voice in the congregation.  This is not obeying scripture which encourages me to grow so I can encourage others.
    Be in the congregation because you want to be there.  Do not sit with one foot in the congregation and the other outside it because you give yourself the right to higher criticism of the past history . 
    If you do not like the present teachings - leave.  We live in a free world.........do not be a hypocrite and be an "indecisive" one........ but frankly - I do not know where you can go to......
    If you stay - then accept the present teachings.  Contribute to the positive aspects of the congregation you are in.  Build up your brothers and sisters and build unity. .... do all the things the scriptures encourages us to do. 
     
     
     
  4. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to TrueTomHarley in 1914   
    I’m not one of them. Nor do I have you in mind with application of that Acts 5 verse. I have other people in mind.
    Since I am also “out there,” even though not paralleling the topics that you take on, I give thought to “let he who is standing beware that he does not fall.” I don’t want to have happen to me what I have seen happen many times to others—brothers become experts in their own eyes and in time leave Jehovah’s organized worship completely, frustrated that it is not “keeping up.” 
    I counter that tendency to become wise in my own eyes by firmly adhering to the traditional door-to-door ministry and making sure activity here is supplemental, not a replacement. My understanding is that you do the same, but I suspect that some others on this forum do not.
    I counter the tendency to become wise in my own eyes by staying firmly cooperative with existing congregational arrangements, respecting the role and the need of leadership. I gather that you do the same. 
    I counter the tendency to become wise in my own eyes by always looking for the good in others, such as in Philippians 2:3 mode of considering the other superior—searching out and honing in on the at least one quality, often many, at which the other plainly is superior, then always endeavoring to see him or her primarily through this lens. This I believe you do too. In fact, you are better at it than me.
    I don’t view you as someone who is not obeying. I view you as someone who is bringing your gift to the altar. If you suspended your traditional ministry and began running down the Christian organization, I would reappraise. But you do not that I have seen. I too, try to “bring my gift to the altar,” such as it is, but it does not replace the organized activity that collectively makes the light shine.
  5. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to Kosonen in 1914   
    There is no need to believe anything GB or WT says or writes. The Bible is the authority. We should believe in Jesus and what he said. And we should believe the apostles who Jesus had appointed and their writings. And if anyone goes above that, then apostle Paul says:  
    Galatians 1:8 "However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed." 
  6. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to Anna in 1914   
    Yes, and that according to Bible chronology, the FDS was appointed in 1919. So if 1914 was questioned, when were the FDS appointed? It would remove that whole aspect of what we have been taught, including the brothers being in prison. 
    I agree though that in reality it shouldn't change much about the authority of those taking the lead, because the scriptures say to be obedient to them. And I agree with the sister, I thought it was nothing new either (regarding the FDS only being the GB). But still, everyone is aware that Jesus was supposed to have appointed a specific group to provide spiritual food. If 1914 was removed, that small specific group would be dispersed and would include anyone who was feeding others spiritually, as you have suggested. All this would remove the thought that the GB are the only channel God is using, although G.Jackson admitted that it would be presumptuous to think that they were the only chanel. However I don't think he, or any of the others have put this in writing in any of our publications though. So unless someone has read Jackson's ARC deposition, they will be under the impression that the FDS, therefore the GB  are the ONLY chanel God is using, and therefore to question anything they say is tantamount to going against God himself. A few know this is not true, and the GB themselves think it's not true, but most  r&f believe it. (As you know, this was the reason why I got kicked out of one forum*. And this is  also why it appears that we "worship" the GB, because anything and everything they say is gold and must not be questioned, even if it could be wrong....because they are not infallible and can err...). 
    *Questioning God is allowed, but questioning the GB is not! How strange is that?
  7. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to JW Insider in 1914   
    Of course, there's also an implication throughout the context of Acts, that God does not give that holy spirit to those who obey men. That's one of the reasons for this very topic of 1914, as uncomfortable as it might seem to even question it.
    Of course, obeying God as ruler and not men, doesn't preclude us from "obeying" our congregation elders (Heb 13:17). But there is no contradiction here, because the word used for the word obey here has a range of meaning. And that range of meaning is pinned down in the very context of Hebrews 13 and elsewhere. 
    In fact, we might as well deal with it because there will be some who think it is "disobedient" to even consider the questions about 1914. It's the same as questioning God's arrangement, some say. Just like questioning 1925, or the hourly quotas for publishers and pioneers, would have been the same as 'questioning the Lord himself' in Rutherford's day.
    When Hebrews 13 says "Be obedient to those taking the lead among you" it's obvious that the term "among you" referred to congregation overseers/elders. We extend this to mean the elders who preside in a "headquarters" arrangement from the various Branches, especially the Governing Body residing in the United States Branch. But the word here does not mean "obey" in the sense of "you must obey God as ruler." In Acts 5:29 that term includes the idea of submission to a ruler or magistrate (i.e., God).
    The definition of "obey" in the context of Hebrews 13:17 is perfectly summed up in this verse that doesn't even use the word obey:
    (Hebrews 13:7) . . .Remember those who are taking the lead among you, who have spoken the word of God to you, and as you contemplate how their conduct turns out, imitate their faith.
    The root meaning of the term is actually "persuade." Hebrews 13 uses the verb "peitho" here, and Peitho was the goddess of persuasion. That's actually the first meaning in Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
    1. Peitho, proper name of a goddess, literally, Persuasion; Latin Suada or Suadela.
    2. persuasive power, persuasion: 1 Corinthians 2:4 ἐν πειθοι — accusative to certain inferior authorities.
    Strong's NT Definition is:
    πείθω peíthō, pi'-tho; a primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy, to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively, to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty):—agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) conflent, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield.
    Note that "obey" hardly makes the list.
    Even the NWT doesn't say in Hebrews 6:9 that "in your case we are obedient to bettr things." Instead it says:
    (Hebrews 6:9) 9 But in your case, beloved ones, we are convinced of better things. . .
    In the very verse after Hebrews 13:17, the word "trust" is used, in these of being "persuaded" or "convinced" that we have a good conscience.
    (Hebrews 13:18) . . .Carry on prayer for us, for we trust we have an honest conscience, as we wish to conduct ourselves honestly in all things.
    I know you didn't say that this type of obedience contradicts our Christian duty to question and therefore to make sure of all things. But Hebrews 13 often comes up by some as a reason to deflect from that Christian duty.
  8. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to JW Insider in 1914   
    You are saying that they (GB) hang on to 1914 because if they get rid of it, they relinquish a Biblical base of authority. It's "nice" to have a Bible passage that talks about you and it's even "nicer" when that particular passage mentions a measure of authority and trust in advance of even greater authority and trust.
    I'm just saying that the reason they see the passage as speaking about themselves is because of 1914 first. Based on the importance given to that date, they expect to see certain actions that Jesus must have taken, or that it would seem reasonable for him to take. So it's kind of backwards to imply that they hang on to the date because of the authority. They hang onto the authority because of the date.
    But I'm also saying that this authority would be there anyway. Sure, they lose a little if they give "FDS" back to all the anointed, or even if they spread that authority around to include all the elders, or all Witnesses who support [feed] other Witnesses in any way, materially or spiritually or emotionally. (Recall that the verse once meant the anointed feeding the anointed, because the domestics were the anointed, too.)
    Common sense tells us that the purpose of elders in a congregation is to provide teaching and examples to follow and good judgment when it comes to dealing with difficult matters that might arise. We follow their lead. We listen. We copy their example. They persuade us to follow with good teaching and good examples.
    How much more would we think that the ones we consider qualified as elders over the global congregation would be worthy of even more respect. And we would be just as willing or more to follow their lead, listen, copy their example, etc.
    This is why it really came as no surprise to many Witnesses that the GB took upon themselves the entire role they interpreted to be the role of the FDS. To most Witnesses, the FDS always meant the GB anyway. The GB already represented the rest of the anointed in general, who had no say anyway. It was the GB, as head of the departments for Writing, Teaching, Service, Correspondence, etc., who were already considered the top of the "Bethel" headquarters hierarchy. It didn't matter if a certain thing was written by a member of the "other sheep," it was still considered to be under their direction. I actually asked a pioneer sister at the time if she had heard about the new GB=FDS doctrine right after that point from the Annual Meeting was announced on the website. She honestly thought that this was nothing new.
    In other words, something like this same respect for their teaching and example would have happened naturally as a matter of course. It has probably happened in every religion known to man. There have even been other religions that speak of their leadership councils as governing bodies. The level of agreement by the "rank-and-file" Witnesses (as Anthony Morriss III calls us) is just like other religions: a function of the emphasis given on the importance of this level of agreement.
  9. Haha
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    Do you mean this?
    "Special knowledge", in sense it was different than that of main Christendom (Catholic church) but also similar or sourced in other smaller religious groups. And "special faith", in sense he want to believe he found "new and better" or even as he had been chosen for "mission". I wasn't studied about this things as i should. @JW Insider handled with more materials (and have better memory than me :))) to bring out so much or enough quotes (WT publications) to support discussion, to give corrective perception on issues like this, and to introduce reader into unknown possibility, reality.
    WT Society and today successors of religious inheritance (all doctrines and methodologies used to find "the truth") aka GB carry a sort of "burden" of that past. Perhaps they are somehow "forced" to stay on  such track, path of the past, don' know. If they are aware of fact  how past doctrines are not bringing to the future but contrary, holds them in ambys of past spiritual wrongs, because they are afraid of making clear and painful cuts, it is understandable, but also makes whole situation hopeless. It can be, based on experience we see till today, how easiest way to escape from spiritual "errors" they found in idea of "progressive understanding". According to this, Bible Truth never changed, but human (GB) understanding does. To this idea one thing also remain not understandable: what is Bible truth? Because no one is able to say - where we are now standing, on what point in this progress?! How much steps exists from point A to B in this progressive understanding? Because they made a claims how human living at close end of this system they assured themselves, as many time before, how this  "present truth" must be good enough and supported by God. With this attitude you are on a good way to be deceived and self deceived.
     
  10. Like
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to TrueTomHarley in 1914   
    Several times I have heard this expression from you. I like to think that it could be ten or less years. It helps to keep on the watch.
    I even think that it is today’s emphasis on “critical thinking” that serves to downplay the above verse—as though obedience has nothing whatsoever to do with it—as though it is all a head matter that we ought to be able to figure out.
  11. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to JW Insider in 1914   
    Russell was an excellent student of the Bible. He knew it well. He wrote about the Bible very capably. He preached it. He clearly had insights into many of its teachings and principles. He could use scripture to explain scripture. He could show excellent rational insight along with spiritual insight. He showed faith and he showed discretion and wisdom. And he was one of the most interesting men of his time, because was very aware of the world around him and used this knowledge to help explain some of these insights, but usually without getting too bogged down in the secular, political or scientific arguments of the day.
    But, faith or no faith, he had absolutely no insight or understanding about the end of the gentile times. He made no prediction about a world war. He made absolutely no prediction about 1914 that came true. He made absolutely no prediction about the gentile times that came true.
    Russell thought the "end of the gentile times" was the equivalent of the FULL ESTABLISHMENT of a Jewish government in PALESTINE, and the FINAL END of the United States government and economy, the FINAL END of the United Kingdom's government and economy, the FINAL END of the Turkish government and economy, the FINAL END of the Chinese, Japanese, Russian, German, French, Norwegian, and Mexican governments and economies, too. ALL HUMAN GOVERNMENTS would fall in 1914/1915 and it would be the FULL establishment of a divinely backed Jewish government in Jerusalem, with the re-establishment of Israel in Palestine.
    We can only pretend that he got something right, because he predicted that the chaos of the complete fall of all these non-Jewish governments, along with the rise of Israel in Palestine, would result in a time of trouble that would END in 1914, and then around 1904, he changed it to BEGIN in 1914, and indicated that this chaos in the vacuum of any human political institutions would end in a matter of months after 1914, most likely ending in 1915.
    Which part of his "insight" or "understanding" of this matter came true? Which part was correct?
    It's true he started some backpeddling on his understanding in 1904 (mentioned above), then 1910, then 1913. That's because his view included some expectations that he considered unlikely in view of the time left. 
    Russell didn't think Jesus' invisible presence would start in 1914. Russell didn't think that Jesus' kingship would start in 1914. Russell didn't think a great battle would be fought between Jesus and Satan in 1914. There's NOTHING that we NOW think happened around 1914, that Russell predicted, and he NEVER thought that any of those things (that we now believe about 1914) had happened even after he saw the events of 1914 for himself.
    So where does anyone get the idea that Russell got even one thing right about 1914 prior to 1914?
  12. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914   
    @Srecko Sostar Fantastic comment. You are very deep thinking. But can you explain the last paragraph please. 
    Indeed the first century Christians, and even the Jews around at that time, were given lots of 'signs' in ways of miracles, curing all sorts of disease, turning water into wine, producing food enough for 10.000 people or more (I think they only counted the men), raising the dead et al.  It was as much seen by the physical eye as it was faith.  But now it seems, no one expects miracles.. No one but me maybe. 
    I loved the bit about Russell having 'faith'. gave him wrong insight and understanding. Other people' faiths, around Russell, also accepted same things that made them to be in wrong expectations too.
    So it is today it seems with the GB and JWs. 
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    @Outta Here   Quote " And the understanding we have now, as proclaimed by the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses and supported by their application of Scripture, would appear to me to bear this out."
    More GB worshipping at it's best  The blind leading the blind and wow, that is a massive pit they've fallen into. 
  13. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    We raised issue on some other level. They witnessed to their faith and hope, and to some literal manifestations. But precisely said, they not witnessed in a way that we consider as word "witness" primatly means. It would be as someone today gave testimony as witness on Court about something, and he say to Judge: "I didn't saw what happened but I believe i know what happened because this was promised to me that will happen. And things that i saw are exactly that."   
    Religious people today depending on testimonies made by people in the past who not witnessed to some events, to some they did. Also, people today put trust on people who wrote about this things and also to translators. And finally, people put their trust on spiritual mediators aka church leaders, who are strong force that drive faith and hope of people in particular direction. 
    People in Jesus' days was under promise and expectations that day will SEE supernatural events as Proof how individual who doing this is Send By God. I think how WT Society take this position in their explanations. So, miracles are of important things that surrounding life and faith of people in Israel from the very beginning. Without miracles, many of events described in Bible, would never happened and history will be different and present will be different. No matter did such miracles really happened or not. Christian faith, before and today, would be in some other format without miracles. Christians in 1 century was totally in miracles of all kind. Today, things are different. 
    faith gave a person insight to understand the end of the gentile times in 1914 way before the event of WW1 happened.
    If i understand what i read before about this correctly, faith he had (Russell) gave him wrong insight and understanding. Other people' faiths, around Russell, also accepted same things that made them to be in wrong expectations too.
    It seems how "faith" (own or other' people) is not trustful. It is not what makes things come true. Faith of man, who is blind, who believe he will see, not makes him cured of blindness because of mere faith. Someone who has power to do miracle, have to cure him from blindness. Than, this man' faith have value and justification. Otherwise is superstition, empty hope. Faith (to believe something) not need knowledge. Because knowledge would say, miracles are not possible. Do we have some "special" knowledge? WT Society teaches how 1 century miracles are not possible today. 
    Russell had some "special" knowledge and some "special "faith". And that ended in past. His legal heirs wants to make all that as progress on a way to "ultimate knowledge and faith".  
  14. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to Anna in 1914   
    I am thinking the same, but I don't think they see it that way. It seems that specific dates are very important to them....
  15. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to JW Insider in 1914   
    Thanks for this reminder @Arauna
    When I mentioned early in this topic that @Anna had brought up a couple of points/questions that I hadn't really been able to consider fully, this was one of them. It's easy to see what C.T.Russell was thinking when he said that wars, earthquakes and famine and pestilence, etc., were NOT part of the sign, because as he said, Jesus was here just telling us the common experience of mankind for the last 18 centuries.
    But it is obvious that the fig tree appears to refer to some kind of sign that people can see is in advance of a season. This appears to counter the idea of Jesus and Paul that the times and seasons are none of our concern, not even the angels, but only the Father.
    The current doctrine may have several apparent contradictions with scripture, but I don't want to just jump over to another interpretation that also has contradictions.
  16. Like
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to Evacuated in 1914   
    Quite so. And the understanding we have now, as proclaimed by the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses and supported by their application of Scripture, would appear to me to bear this out.
    The various perspectives of those contributing to the discussion on this matter really would not exist at all if it were not for these proclamations at this time. The historical "curios" of understanding that have led people who have stuck with the organisation to this point of time are in the public domain, as are similar "artifacts" of all areas of human endeavour. 
    Whether revered as trailblazing milestones in the search for truth, or ridiculed as crank-minded curios for the amusement of cynics, the body of historical thinking on the part of Jehovah's Witnesses serves really only one purpose. The 1st Century view of the apostle Paul on the effect of  various expressions of opinion on Christianty is as valid today as it was at the the time it was written:
    "With what result? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed, and I rejoice over this. In fact, I will also keep on rejoicing," Phillippians 1:18
     
  17. Like
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to Arauna in 1914   
    Well, world conditions have changed considerably after WW1...... weapons development, population explosion, damage to the earth /biosphere -  just to name 3 items on a long list.
     
    True, but it is as though the stage is set for people to kill each other (in most countries) - brother against brother.  Violence and hate is brewing  and UN will step in with surveillance and new moral laws.  So it could take 10 years or more  BUT it could happen sooner..... depending on the resistance to UN plans and UN determination to push their plans through to create peace and security. - their way. Agenda 2030 must be completed by 2030. By 2022 they want a world federal currency. 
    The glaziers on Himmalayas is melting, Maldives going under water, fire hazards everywhere, forests destroyed with rare species of plants and animals, desertification, etc.  - these conditions will create more food and water shortages, national disasters, etc which could speed up unrest and the need for UN intervention.  
    World events are volatile and unpredictable bringing critical times. While we watch the intensity of the birth pains increasing - we know the birth is eminent but we do not know the date....However ,  we can recognize what is going on. 
    Jesus had the approval of God and was anointed by Jehovah and the world hated him.  Why would we expect  imperfect men be more successful than Jesus? 
     
  18. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in The phenomena of "Holy Spirit", working in the minds and hearts of the JWs down at the bottom of the stack   
    I find you very amusing Mr Rook. It seems that you feel you can say things against your GB and its Org, but others should not. 
    Come on, Holy Spirit is not like drinking a casual cup of coffee.  Holy Spirit is a gift from Almighty God through Jesus Christ. I would at least expect to see some kind of positive result from it. 
    Since the great disappointment of 1975, the Org has lost momentum, lost congregants, lost direction, changed it's teachings, is now losing money in multiple court cases, has lost credibility as to being a 'clean' 'wholesome' Organisation. It is stumbling and bumbling along. Being led by 8 men who are totally lost. Blind leading the blind, and oh what a pit they have fallen into. 
    The very fact that you expect nothing, and get nothing, shows there is NO Holy Spirit in JW Org. 
    I'm off to my kitchen to get a casual cup of coffee  
     
  19. Sad
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in The phenomena of "Holy Spirit", working in the minds and hearts of the JWs down at the bottom of the stack   
    I expect NOTHING from anyone else, and I am never disappointed.
    I disagree with your many unrealistic premises, 4Jah2me, as being a Barbarian myself, like the Shadow of old time radio fame ... I know what evil lurks in the hearts of men, and the thorns in their sides that never heal, and the fears and terrors of the ghosts that haunt them, and the cowardice that runs through all of our mortal bodies.
    You think, in my considered opinion, like a child.

  20. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in The phenomena of "Holy Spirit", working in the minds and hearts of the JWs down at the bottom of the stack   
    IF holy spirit reached anyone in the JW Org it would be a great surprise to me.  
    IF holy spirit reached the congregants then would they carry on serving the GB and the Org ?
    IF holy spirit reached the congregants then would they still go into the 'ministry work' teaching the LIES to other people ?
    Would congregants take on Bible Studies and teach LIES of men from books, by not using the Bible properly ? 
    Would congregants encourage families into the K H knowing that there may be a paedophile in there ?
    Well the congregants would know about the paedophile situation, if  the congregants were blessed with holy spirit. 
    No, there is no holy spirit in the JW Org. If ever there was, which I cannot now believe, it has vanished. Almighty God has turned the 'tap' off. And you, Mr Rook, will know this more than I. Because you see the faults and lies, the injustice and lack of love, the lack of mercy, the man made rules as a heavy burden (as you mentioned). 
     
     
     
  21. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in The phenomena of "Holy Spirit", working in the minds and hearts of the JWs down at the bottom of the stack   
    I believe it does, on an individual and as a group.
    Nevertheless, being a Barbarian at heart, I appreciate MANY things I could not have learned elsewhere, even though it was accompanied by heavy unnecessary burdens based solely on the opinions of pontificators.
    One of those MAJOR things is that I did not go to Vietnam, and kill people for a national political agenda.
    I wanted to go there as a photojournalist, which was probably a bad idea, as I am so large that my nickname might have been "Bullet Catcher", as it was for 63 photojournalists that died there.
  22. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in The phenomena of "Holy Spirit", working in the minds and hearts of the JWs down at the bottom of the stack   
    Witness:
    I pay attention to what you write ... it being easier the shorter the epistle is, but I have an observation that in THIS case I consider to be quite true.
    The fact that down at the bottom, below the Elder  level of organization, the crapola that sometimes comes out of JW leadership, in it's self serving, self aggrandizing pontification, is somehow (for the most part) subtracted out, and our lives are made much better in every way,
    The only explanation I can deduce for this phenomena is "Holy Spirit", working in the minds and hearts of the JWs down at the bottom of the stack.
    It's like watching Forest Gump wander through life, thinking he has invested in a start-up fruit company ... and it turns out to be Apple Computer.
  23. Like
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to Arauna in The Watchtower and the Colored people   
    This  is about traditions which are spiritistic and cruel which people cling to.  Many caucamsian tribe used to practice cannibalism, spiritism etc.  a long time ago but christianity changed it.  
    It is the judeo-christian traditions  which gave us human rights in the west...... but it took a long time for traditions of slavery and other cruel traditions to be abolished..... and unjust practices persisted. 
    Female mutilation  and child marriage  is still prevalent  and a blind eye given to it.......which Jehovahs people do not allow - just as we do not allow for racism and bias in our congregations. Yes, spiritual maturity has helped us to see the error of our ways..... but many people who are so-called Christian's are still racist....... it just depends on the degree.
    As I said before: our brothers in Africa  are doing a fine job as elders and servants in the congregations. 
     
  24. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in The Watchtower and the Colored people   
    .... and with that .... I rest my case.
  25. Downvote
    Leander H. McNelly reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in The Watchtower and the Colored people   
    Sometimes it was even WORSE !
    In the haunted house would be  someone with no sense of humor!
    Now THAT's scary!
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