xero

WHOA! I need me a pair of these! I am entirely too nice to several around here and I let altogether too much slide by!

To their credit, Russell and Rutherford and Franz and the current GB have all given good evidence that they hoped for the end. Sometimes a strong hope for the end will cloud one's judgment about the rationality of predicting a specific time period for the end. But there is a big difference in hoping for the end, which is always proper, and predicting a specific time period for the end, which is ALWAYS improper, according to Jesus. We have examples set before us in the Bible showing the folly of trying to predict the time period. The Bible gives many reasons why this is foolishness to try to predict the time period.
Hoping for the end implies faithfulness and humility. Predicting a specific time period for the end implies presumptuousness and haughtiness.

Whatever others have done makes no difference to me. The context makes it clear that NOT ONE of those counted righteous had a clue anyone was in some special "Christ's Brothers" category. One flock, one shepherd. Be decent to each other and don't cop a superior attitude.

I was wondering when we'd get to the implicit nazi collaboration comparisons.

Is it important? You don't see ANY of those who were accounted among the righteous as recognizing ANY as Christ's brothers in the account. They just behaved decently in accord w/their conscience. That's all. Moreover they had the attitude. "When did we EVER do anything right?". 
I've always been interested in comma placement theory, and though the context suggests (and what I've researched in lexicons) like the "truly I tell you today ,(COMMA) you will be w/me in paradise" it makes me think a person could interpret this as "To the extent you did it to these least ones,(COMMA) my brothers,(COMMA) you did it to me" as a welcoming into the family. "Welcome BROTHERS!"

BTW - You know you've gotten into one of those stupid internet discussions as soon as you see people parsing people's words like they're playing checkers w/someone in the park. Hopping ...over...phrases.

If you see a crime, you have a responsibility to address the crime. I remember when someone asked me when I was on the street "what about Michael Jackson?". I said "He's not in my congregation. I can't speak to any of that." Likewise I can say in the decades I've been in no hint anywhere I've been that anyone is in support of or colluding with anyone to suppress abuse. Do I wish this sort of thing never happens anywhere? Yes. Do I think we'd be free from whatever infects the rest of human society? No. Do I have details on how the corporation WTBS has handled issues? No. 
Do I divorce myself from every human organization whose members have ever deflected from God's moral standards?
No.
I render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's and to God the things which are God's.
Any judgement and any further actions which others take are up to those who view these things.
I see all organizations today as human because they are. I'm not a Catholic and I don't believe the pope is the vicar of Christ. I don't believe any organization is the vicar of Christ either. That said, I have to associate with those who I believe are doing the work "irregardless" (Tom)  of their real or imagined deficiencies.
Nothing is more like fingernails on a chalkboard are the voices of those who instead of singing God' s praises, praise the images of men or organizations created by men. Just stop the idolatry already.

Plan as if Alan will be out of your hair tomorrow. Live as if you know he won’t be.

This is also in the future - the wheat (anointed) have not all been collected yet.

*** w13 7/15 p. 9 “Look! I Am With You All the Days” ***
WT article with the most recent discussion on this.
 
*** Pure Worship: p. 238 Summary of Clarifications ***

Further detail in the AM 2020 talk "Will You Keep Standing Among the Righteous?"

If you mean amongst intelligent creation, only in the heavens.

4Jah - Right now we have people who profess to be anointed. None of us know whether anyone who makes such a profession is one or not. I rather suspect Paul would say to them:
“Do not go beyond the things that are written,” so that you may not be puffed up with pride,+ favoring one against the other. 7  For who makes you different from another? Indeed, what do you have that you did not receive?+ If, in fact, you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it?8  Are you already satisfied? Are you already rich? Have you begun ruling as kings+ without us? I really wish that you had begun ruling as kings, so that we also might rule with you as kings.+  1 Cor. 4:6-8
Now since the heavens are Gods throne and the earth his footstool and all things on earth belong necessarily to Jesus Christ, I'd say through the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked ones, the whole of those who profess to Christianity are making professions of being the earthly part of his kingdom. This distinction has yet to be made perfectly clear as the wheat and the weeds are still growing together. "At THAT time will the righteous shine". Now this may be even more far removed from what everyone's thinking, but what it means to "shine" could mean 'reflecting like mirrors the glory of Jehovah" or it could mean this is what these appear to be in their resurrected and glorified state. I'm not dogmatic about this, but I do see that hard line dogmatism is usually about power over another's conscience.
All those who are really wearing invisible crowns (and are in recognition of their own degraded state) will not be spending their time pulling rank or worrying about others who may or may not have pulled rank as it were.
To go further, I see this in a similar jaundiced view as did Paul when he considered the chronic harping on circumcision in his time : 
 4  But that matter came up because of the false brothers brought in quietly,+ who slipped in to spy on the freedom+ we enjoy in union with Christ Jesus, so that they might completely enslave us;+ 5  we did not yield in submission to them,+ no, not for a moment,* so that the truth of the good news might continue with you.6  But regarding those who seemed to be important+—whatever they were makes no difference to me, for God does not go by a man’s outward appearance—those highly regarded men imparted nothing new to me....
12  I wish the men who are trying to unsettle you would emasculate themselves.* - Ga. 5:12
To wit - He will cull all things which cause stumbling. It doesn't matter if what's causing stumbling is a person wearing an invisible crown or not. All who profess to be under this kingdom "whether in pretense or in truth" will be culled. A Christian should focus on THEMSELVES and THEIR responsibility and let God sort the rest. 
 

On the contrary, I have pretty much turned into one. That’s why I said I may have been here too long.
My only rationalization, which probably does not suffice, is that the few I go after have large “Kick Me” signs on their backsides. If they would take them down, it wouldn’t happen.
Take yourself, for example. Alan has launched the more blistering attacks on God—not God as JWs see him, but God as any believer sees him. That makes you just another “ignorant moron” in his eyes. Yet you are thick as thieves with him, approving any anti-spiritual diatribe of his, and disapproving any put-down of him.
Attacking Jehovah’s Witnesses appears to be your sole concern. It does not matter to you if you sell out God in the process.

Another laughing emoji? I have the same fear with you, 4jah, namely that the curtain may be pulled away one day to reveal I am interacting with another nine-year-old

The question is never "where should we go?" but "whom shall we follow?". We follow (as we are able) Jesus. Now the tough nut, is just how much diversity of conscience and diversity of opinion as to what is an absolute requirement to be considered faithful by Jesus, not by some external entity are we willing to tolerate? If we aren't careful, we'll be creating a cult of one, just ourselves. We absolutely need association with fellow believers, but again, how much diversity are we willing to allow? If we look with a critical eye at the accounts we read of life as a Christian in the first century, we see a lot of diversity and a lot of contention. No one was living their faith in lock-step with each other. People differed as to their opinions on following the law (or not). People were engaging in gossip. People were bad-mouthing their brothers, and Paul and others as well. Everything bad that could happen, did happen then. But they had a core hope. They all agreed that Jesus was the messiah. They had predictions about when the end would come (and they were wrong too). I understand it's harder for some than for others to remain when others don't share their views or when others appear to insist you share theirs. Guess what? The same thing happened in the first century.
So I asked before and I'll ask again. Was your experience all negative, or were there just aspects of it you found you simply couldn't reconcile? What of your beliefs do you have with which you can share with the wider group of people in the world who refer to themselves (and believe it) as "Christians".
Once I was asked by a person I'd called on for years whether I thought it was absolutely necessary to be a card-carrying JW to survive Armageddon. I said "I hope not. Because 27k hours later of talking w/people at the door has let me know how I'm no better (and probably worse) than a lot of people." He then asked "So why are you here then? Why do you do this?" I said "Inertia...that and for the same reason I lift weights and run. The weights don't change and the roads I run on don't change, but I do for the effort. Doing this work changed me and continues to change me, and I'd like to think for the better."

May as well include this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events
https://www.openculture.com/2015/10/in-1704-isaac-newton-predicts-the-world-will-end-in-2060.html
I used to joke that if it doesn't come by 2034 (120 years from 1914) that I might reconsider. (Somehow people didn't think that as funny as I did.)

Yes. As Jesus Christ is my leader. (Of course I remember some elders questioning my methods once and when I showed the example Jesus set and how I was "following it closely" one said... yeah, but now you're tail-gaiting Jesus)
 

I am lazy. I suppose I also don't want people to get the idea that I have any original ideas. I want to positively affirm that.

The question is never "where should we go?" but "whom shall we follow?". We follow (as we are able) Jesus. Now the tough nut, is just how much diversity of conscience and diversity of opinion as to what is an absolute requirement to be considered faithful by Jesus, not by some external entity are we willing to tolerate? If we aren't careful, we'll be creating a cult of one, just ourselves. We absolutely need association with fellow believers, but again, how much diversity are we willing to allow? If we look with a critical eye at the accounts we read of life as a Christian in the first century, we see a lot of diversity and a lot of contention. No one was living their faith in lock-step with each other. People differed as to their opinions on following the law (or not). People were engaging in gossip. People were bad-mouthing their brothers, and Paul and others as well. Everything bad that could happen, did happen then. But they had a core hope. They all agreed that Jesus was the messiah. They had predictions about when the end would come (and they were wrong too). I understand it's harder for some than for others to remain when others don't share their views or when others appear to insist you share theirs. Guess what? The same thing happened in the first century.
So I asked before and I'll ask again. Was your experience all negative, or were there just aspects of it you found you simply couldn't reconcile? What of your beliefs do you have with which you can share with the wider group of people in the world who refer to themselves (and believe it) as "Christians".
Once I was asked by a person I'd called on for years whether I thought it was absolutely necessary to be a card-carrying JW to survive Armageddon. I said "I hope not. Because 27k hours later of talking w/people at the door has let me know how I'm no better (and probably worse) than a lot of people." He then asked "So why are you here then? Why do you do this?" I said "Inertia...that and for the same reason I lift weights and run. The weights don't change and the roads I run on don't change, but I do for the effort. Doing this work changed me and continues to change me, and I'd like to think for the better."

The question is never "where should we go?" but "whom shall we follow?". We follow (as we are able) Jesus. Now the tough nut, is just how much diversity of conscience and diversity of opinion as to what is an absolute requirement to be considered faithful by Jesus, not by some external entity are we willing to tolerate? If we aren't careful, we'll be creating a cult of one, just ourselves. We absolutely need association with fellow believers, but again, how much diversity are we willing to allow? If we look with a critical eye at the accounts we read of life as a Christian in the first century, we see a lot of diversity and a lot of contention. No one was living their faith in lock-step with each other. People differed as to their opinions on following the law (or not). People were engaging in gossip. People were bad-mouthing their brothers, and Paul and others as well. Everything bad that could happen, did happen then. But they had a core hope. They all agreed that Jesus was the messiah. They had predictions about when the end would come (and they were wrong too). I understand it's harder for some than for others to remain when others don't share their views or when others appear to insist you share theirs. Guess what? The same thing happened in the first century.
So I asked before and I'll ask again. Was your experience all negative, or were there just aspects of it you found you simply couldn't reconcile? What of your beliefs do you have with which you can share with the wider group of people in the world who refer to themselves (and believe it) as "Christians".
Once I was asked by a person I'd called on for years whether I thought it was absolutely necessary to be a card-carrying JW to survive Armageddon. I said "I hope not. Because 27k hours later of talking w/people at the door has let me know how I'm no better (and probably worse) than a lot of people." He then asked "So why are you here then? Why do you do this?" I said "Inertia...that and for the same reason I lift weights and run. The weights don't change and the roads I run on don't change, but I do for the effort. Doing this work changed me and continues to change me, and I'd like to think for the better."

The question is never "where should we go?" but "whom shall we follow?". We follow (as we are able) Jesus. Now the tough nut, is just how much diversity of conscience and diversity of opinion as to what is an absolute requirement to be considered faithful by Jesus, not by some external entity are we willing to tolerate? If we aren't careful, we'll be creating a cult of one, just ourselves. We absolutely need association with fellow believers, but again, how much diversity are we willing to allow? If we look with a critical eye at the accounts we read of life as a Christian in the first century, we see a lot of diversity and a lot of contention. No one was living their faith in lock-step with each other. People differed as to their opinions on following the law (or not). People were engaging in gossip. People were bad-mouthing their brothers, and Paul and others as well. Everything bad that could happen, did happen then. But they had a core hope. They all agreed that Jesus was the messiah. They had predictions about when the end would come (and they were wrong too). I understand it's harder for some than for others to remain when others don't share their views or when others appear to insist you share theirs. Guess what? The same thing happened in the first century.
So I asked before and I'll ask again. Was your experience all negative, or were there just aspects of it you found you simply couldn't reconcile? What of your beliefs do you have with which you can share with the wider group of people in the world who refer to themselves (and believe it) as "Christians".
Once I was asked by a person I'd called on for years whether I thought it was absolutely necessary to be a card-carrying JW to survive Armageddon. I said "I hope not. Because 27k hours later of talking w/people at the door has let me know how I'm no better (and probably worse) than a lot of people." He then asked "So why are you here then? Why do you do this?" I said "Inertia...that and for the same reason I lift weights and run. The weights don't change and the roads I run on don't change, but I do for the effort. Doing this work changed me and continues to change me, and I'd like to think for the better."

Just engaging in the same kind of thinking some of the CO's I've had private conversations with, when they were making points not yet made (yet).
I've had to be careful. I was reading the scriptures about asking, knocking, and seeking and persisting in this. The answers you may get may not be ripe for prime time (they could be wrong too). I try not to ask/knock/seek FOR other people (but here I'm doing it anyway by discussing this)
But...It could be then, that since the wheat and the weeds are still growing together one would hardly expect perfection anywhere. Anywhere.

Yes, it seems like it. Not sure what your point is though 😀

I am lazy. I suppose I also don't want people to get the idea that I have any original ideas. I want to positively affirm that.

Not sure if you all are aware of my life...my mother has been a Jehovah's Witness for probably 45-60 years or so, her mind is foggy at 78 years old, but she still can be the unlit fire cracker. She lives with me and is very vocal with her phone conversations and such...I don't read the current material...but I am privy to her conversations with other jw's/elders, etc. We all know meeting together in worship is better than using zoom meeting from afar. And the Wtbts and the FDS have chosen to keep their services on line only. So my aging mom is experiencing a great disconnect with her congregation because she is not tech savvy and my sister and I help her as much as possible, along with a few other sisters who are, but she and those others are loosing faith in God, loosing faith in the governing bodies ability to maintain jw's connection with God. They continue to put their faith in the governing body, and when they don't follow through, they view that as Jehovah God not following through. So many things have happened with this pandemic, I hope jw's who do not have people who care for them are doing ok, physically as well as spiritually.