b4ucuhear

The public ministry grounds a person. Stray from it at your personal spiritual peril.

I hope I'm wrong too. My information sources are down to only a couple of friends at Bethel who will talk openly about anything, and because they've worked closely with some of the same brothers for several years now, perhaps they have a jaded filter. So it's never fair to paint with a broad brush. When I ask how Brother So-and-So is doing, I get a story that starts out: "You'll never believe what he did the other day . . . " And, of course, it's always something that I can easily believe.
I still happily admit that things are much, much better in the last 20 years or so. That's from both a spiritual perspective (doctrinal changes) and from a material and procedural perspective. The Society is managing hundreds more languages and millions more publishers and doing it all more smoothly and professionally with less "sweat." I"m amazed at how well it runs, and compare my own Bethel experience in the 70's and 80's as "amateur hour" compared to the skills available now. I think Jehovah's spirit permeates and overrides the human deficiencies, so that Jehovah's will gets accomplished no matter what.

I can guess who you mean, but I don't remember reading anything like that from his first book, which I must have read at least 80% of. I never read his second book, but I have skimmed portions. Was this from one of those books, or a later interview?
The reason I ask is that when you first mentioned the "free riders" I was about to respond to the following quote (see quote below) with just "Interesting theory."
The reason I was so tempted to answer this flippantly is because (even if you were right) I was also pretty sure that these were the ones who rose to the very top of the food chain at Bethel, and I don't mean the "spiritual" food chain, even if that's how most of us want to see it. Those who turned their ministry skills into public speaking skills became almost totally inactive or unenthusiastic about any part in the ministry outside of "full-time bureaucratic service." In a very unofficial capacity, I visited just about every branch in Europe in 1978 and 1980. Between those same years, all the branch overseers from around the world visited Brooklyn in several sets, and we not only heard most of them speak, we also sat with them and talked to them at meals, and hosted some in our NYC congregations and even helped host meals for some in local NYC congregations.
Naturally, many were just amazingly full of love and encouraging experiences. You just wanted to go back to their country with them and share the joy. But I have also never met so many cold bureaucrats who never wanted to go from door-to-door again in their life. Also, the current brothers who are named "Helpers" of the Governing Body, well, most of these were working their way up the bureaucratic and political ladders at Bethel in 1980 and the personality similarities among many of them. I shouldn't say, so I won't.
Brothers that I admired at Bethel were the ones who were obviously still active in the "field" even if this seemed incongruent with their assignments at Bethel. My wife and I both loved Brother Rusk dearly, because he was a loving, fatherly type who would do anything for you, and he continued to conduct Bible studies with interested persons from the start right up to the point of baptism, without reminding them that he was also the Watchtower editor or the blood-transfusion expert. Other brothers, including several of my friends who had been on the Aid Book project, and who were the most productive at writing Watchtower articles and "Book-Study" publications, worked closely with brothers in their foreign language congregations, and juggled their work in Writing with a lot of responsibility and work at all levels in their local congregation. For years, I had respect for R.Franz for the same reason. It was well known that he had this unassuming humility that allowed him to work actively in his current Spanish congregation in much the same way he had done while in missionary work in the Dominican Republic. I'd be surprised if he didn't put in "auxiliary pioneer" hours while handling his assignments on the Governing Body and in Writing. And yet, a brother I worked for who was also on the Governing Body would NEVER go out in service until, several years after I left, he became nearly invalid and confined to a wheelchair, and then his wife started to wheel him around Brooklyn Heights with a couple of magazines pinned to him. 

I have seen that too - although not across the board. Some very fine brothers who are very active in the ministry are also good speakers. But the converse is most certainly true quite often. 
We had many Bethelites assigned to our congregation (not from Brooklyn) and the ones least likely to go out in the ministry were them. (I can't speak for other congregations though and I doubt that is the experience across the board).
 But "cold bureaucrats who never wanted to go from door-to-door..." can be found all over if you are privy to behind-the-scenes activities. They may have started off well, but this "corporate ladder" mentality of wanting to be noticed and be somebody can take hold if one isn't careful. Sure, all brothers are encouraged to "reach out," but again as we are often encouraged to personally consider: What is you motive? Some of the better speakers/C.O.'s even have a "following" of brothers and sisters who will travel to a congregation to hear them speak. (As we found out when they came to ours and others). That is unhealthy no matter who you are. Often/(sadly) when brothers and sisters see a "wow" speaker of the platform at a meeting or assembly, the equate that person as being spiritual and an example. But as you and I both know, that at times couldn't be farther from the truth. You can't always judge a book by it's cover. But again, that is not my experience with most brothers and sisters on the platform - but it is often enough for sure.
I have experienced something like this although my "time" wasn't in question. We were asked when doing Bethel construction to skip our meetings and assemblies while living on site. But the congregations we belonged to had a hard time accepting that, and gave us heat over it. As far as not doing as much in the ministry when occupied in construction projects, there is at least an allowance/tolerance for pioneers who may not make their time due to said projects - even allowing for vacation time. So the time, effort and skills these brothers bring to the table is and should be valued. But that is not what I/we are referring to above. It has to do more with the attitude. After all, that attitude was also manifest early on when some left the organization, NOT WANTING to go out in the ministry. 

I have seen that too - although not across the board. Some very fine brothers who are very active in the ministry are also good speakers. But the converse is most certainly true quite often. 
We had many Bethelites assigned to our congregation (not from Brooklyn) and the ones least likely to go out in the ministry were them. (I can't speak for other congregations though and I doubt that is the experience across the board).
 But "cold bureaucrats who never wanted to go from door-to-door..." can be found all over if you are privy to behind-the-scenes activities. They may have started off well, but this "corporate ladder" mentality of wanting to be noticed and be somebody can take hold if one isn't careful. Sure, all brothers are encouraged to "reach out," but again as we are often encouraged to personally consider: What is you motive? Some of the better speakers/C.O.'s even have a "following" of brothers and sisters who will travel to a congregation to hear them speak. (As we found out when they came to ours and others). That is unhealthy no matter who you are. Often/(sadly) when brothers and sisters see a "wow" speaker of the platform at a meeting or assembly, the equate that person as being spiritual and an example. But as you and I both know, that at times couldn't be farther from the truth. You can't always judge a book by it's cover. But again, that is not my experience with most brothers and sisters on the platform - but it is often enough for sure.
I have experienced something like this although my "time" wasn't in question. We were asked when doing Bethel construction to skip our meetings and assemblies while living on site. But the congregations we belonged to had a hard time accepting that, and gave us heat over it. As far as not doing as much in the ministry when occupied in construction projects, there is at least an allowance/tolerance for pioneers who may not make their time due to said projects - even allowing for vacation time. So the time, effort and skills these brothers bring to the table is and should be valued. But that is not what I/we are referring to above. It has to do more with the attitude. After all, that attitude was also manifest early on when some left the organization, NOT WANTING to go out in the ministry. 

It bugs me when people act like they are worshiping an organization (the creation) rather than our Creator. It makes us seem cultish. Yes, respect and obedience to his "channel" has always been an integral part of our worship and relationship with Jehovah - even as Moses and Aaron were Jehovah's representatives. But if you were around at that time and saw Aaron making that golden calf, would you have thought you were being obedient to theocratic authority by bowing down to it? We shouldn't treat any human as a god. We shouldn't suspend our "clear thinking faculties" and hand them over to someone else because among other things not all men are who they appear to be. "Imposters...wolves in sheep's clothing...apostates..." we've had them all and still do. 

It bugs me when people act like they are worshiping an organization (the creation) rather than our Creator. It makes us seem cultish. Yes, respect and obedience to his "channel" has always been an integral part of our worship and relationship with Jehovah - even as Moses and Aaron were Jehovah's representatives. But if you were around at that time and saw Aaron making that golden calf, would you have thought you were being obedient to theocratic authority by bowing down to it? We shouldn't treat any human as a god. We shouldn't suspend our "clear thinking faculties" and hand them over to someone else because among other things not all men are who they appear to be. "Imposters...wolves in sheep's clothing...apostates..." we've had them all and still do. 

It bugs me when people act like they are worshiping an organization (the creation) rather than our Creator. It makes us seem cultish. Yes, respect and obedience to his "channel" has always been an integral part of our worship and relationship with Jehovah - even as Moses and Aaron were Jehovah's representatives. But if you were around at that time and saw Aaron making that golden calf, would you have thought you were being obedient to theocratic authority by bowing down to it? We shouldn't treat any human as a god. We shouldn't suspend our "clear thinking faculties" and hand them over to someone else because among other things not all men are who they appear to be. "Imposters...wolves in sheep's clothing...apostates..." we've had them all and still do. 

Although some may say Noah preached by his faithful example, it wouldn't enlighten anyone much as to what God's purposes or even overall standards are. Even people today who don't believe in God set a good example in some areas. I'm pretty sure that I'm not really/fully understanding the points you make here, but I'll throw some stuff out there anyway and I'll apologize ahead of time if I am totally misreading the points you are trying to make.
I guess as a base point, it would make sense not to choose "our favourite definition of preacher," but what the Bible says a "preacher" is and go from there. As far as I can tell there are only 3 places in the Greek scriptures where the word "preacher" is used and in the context of our discussion it is only fair to use it the way the Bible writers did. "Preacher" according to the NWT is used at 1 Timothy 2:7; 2 Timothy 1:11 and notably at 2 Peter 2:5: "...Noah a preacher of righteousness..."
According to Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionary/Lexicon: Preacher: Gr. (Keruso #G2784): "...to herald (as a public crier), specially divine truth (the gospel): - preach, proclaim, publish. (related to #G27830: 1) a herald or messenger vested with public authority, who conveyed the official messages of kings, magistrates, princes, military commanders, or who have a public summons or demand, and performed various other duties. In the NT, God's ambassador, and the herald or proclaimer of the divine word.
Thayers Greek definitions: 1) to be a herald, of officiate as a herald 1a) to proclaim after the manner of a herald 1b) always with the suggestion of formality, gravity and an authority which must be listened to and obeyed 2) to publish, proclaim openly: something which has been done 3) used of the public proclamation of the gospel and matters pertaining to it, made by John the Baptism, by Jesus, by the apostles and other Christian teachers. 
It would seem to me that a "preacher" is someone who actually says something. Even without resorting to Greek definitions, that is the idea most people would take away from that. So if, as the Bible says, he was a "preacher" (who talked/spoke), what is it he would be talking about? Hebrews 11:7 "By faith Noah, after receiving divine warning of things not yet seen, showed godly fear and constructed an ark for the saving of his household; and through this faith he condemned the world, and he became an heir of the righteousness  that results from faith." Does this explicitly say Noah (as a "preacher of righteousness") preached the divine warning he had received from God? No, but what else would he reasonably be talking/preaching about? Romans 10:10 "for with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation." It makes sense to me that Noah's heart exercised faith in the divine warning given him from God and that faith moved him to not only build and ark, but as a "preacher" of righteousness, didn't just keep that divine warning to himself - but warned others. Yes, there is no smoking gun that says: "Noah warned everybody as a preacher," but again, if we can accept that a "preacher" by definition, is someone who spoke/speaks, what logically would he be speaking about after being given divine warning? Yes, it's by inference, but a pretty safe bet as far as I can see. Alternatively, what else would a "preacher" who had been given divine warning preach about? The weather? Yes! If they are calling for rain  

That's a pretty good point. Despite that natural tendency to want to defend orthodoxy - myself included, there are many instances that may seem to make sense or true at the time but if not explicitly stated in the Bible could be wrong. (1975 and other dates; King of the North; types and anti-types...even some of the "predictions"/interpretations we have now of the details of the way things are going to happen in the future...may have seemed right but may be going beyond the things written). It's always safer to stick to what the Bible actually says. I still believe reasonable assumptions can be made even when the Bible doesn't spell it out, but it would be presumptuous to be dogmatic about it as if we had some miraculous ability to make predictions and whatnot. 

That is basically what I wanted to focus on in my next response. Haven't thought about it enough yet. But basically, even though the technical details may not be included in every account, what really would be characteristic of Jehovah to do? What would be in keeping with his personality to do - to have Noah do  - without focusing so much on the questioned/maybe possible details that we don't see the forest? It's more than that though. When we consider that Jehovah who can read hearts could just destroy all wicked without a word, why doesn't he? Because there is a whole universe of intelligent creatures that are spectators to this legal drama and issues and challenges have to be answered. It's not enough to say for instance, that "mankind can't even direct his own step so I will destroy them all/or all governments." It has to be demonstrated beyond all doubt as a precedent for all eternity. People are judged by the choices they make and given the opportunity, would they repent/make the right choice as did the Ninevites and others?  Sure Jehovah could know their hearts. But no way for the universal court spectators to find out unless you give those in question the chance. And while all details of every account are not included in God's Word, we see that Jehovah very patiently gives even the seemingly wicked an opportunity. He sent his own son to die for even enemies. Even promising a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous. Doesn't that sound more like a God of love, justice, mercy...
Nehemiah 9:16... "But they, our forefathers, acted presumptuously...refused to listen...became stubborn...But you are a God ready to forgive, compassionate and merciful, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love, and you did not abandon them. Even when they made for themselves a metal statue of a calf and were saying 'This is your God...' and they committed great acts of disrespect, even then you, in your great mercy, did not abandon them in the wilderness..." True, there eventually was an accounting, but Jehovah was pretty patient and merciful and that was evident to all. They had plenty of opportunity to change. Jehovah couldn't be charged with being unfair, unilateral or acting without warning or even using his power in an unfair manner. What would make it unfair? To me it would be if he destroyed them without even giving them a chance or warning - even though the Bible doesn't supply every detail.
I haven't really thought all the details through as I have just read this and am responding immediately, but it is in the general direction I was thinking - along with your line of reasoning.

That's a pretty good point. Despite that natural tendency to want to defend orthodoxy - myself included, there are many instances that may seem to make sense or true at the time but if not explicitly stated in the Bible could be wrong. (1975 and other dates; King of the North; types and anti-types...even some of the "predictions"/interpretations we have now of the details of the way things are going to happen in the future...may have seemed right but may be going beyond the things written). It's always safer to stick to what the Bible actually says. I still believe reasonable assumptions can be made even when the Bible doesn't spell it out, but it would be presumptuous to be dogmatic about it as if we had some miraculous ability to make predictions and whatnot. 

The scriptures do NOT say that they laughed and scoffed at him. (This is the very kind of thing I was trying to address by pointing out. Just because something makes sense, and it might even be true, it's still just speculation.)

It bugs me when people act like they are worshiping an organization (the creation) rather than our Creator. It makes us seem cultish. Yes, respect and obedience to his "channel" has always been an integral part of our worship and relationship with Jehovah - even as Moses and Aaron were Jehovah's representatives. But if you were around at that time and saw Aaron making that golden calf, would you have thought you were being obedient to theocratic authority by bowing down to it? We shouldn't treat any human as a god. We shouldn't suspend our "clear thinking faculties" and hand them over to someone else because among other things not all men are who they appear to be. "Imposters...wolves in sheep's clothing...apostates..." we've had them all and still do. 

It bugs me when people act like they are worshiping an organization (the creation) rather than our Creator. It makes us seem cultish. Yes, respect and obedience to his "channel" has always been an integral part of our worship and relationship with Jehovah - even as Moses and Aaron were Jehovah's representatives. But if you were around at that time and saw Aaron making that golden calf, would you have thought you were being obedient to theocratic authority by bowing down to it? We shouldn't treat any human as a god. We shouldn't suspend our "clear thinking faculties" and hand them over to someone else because among other things not all men are who they appear to be. "Imposters...wolves in sheep's clothing...apostates..." we've had them all and still do. 

The fact that they "acted as if they had no warning" is not only true, but kind of the point behind "they took no note/knew not." The people we preach to today act as if they have no warning even now. They don't want to know. "I'm busy...I'm not interested...I don't believe in God...I have my own religion..." That doesn't mean we aren't doing a warning work (along with the good news we bring). The fact that in fulfillment of Matt. 24:14 we are preaching this good news of the kingdom and that kingdom will remove all other worldly governments and to get out of Babylon the Great... are all part of the message expressed regarding "the good news of God's kingdom" and what it will accomplish. As in Noah's day, we are given divine warning through his Word what Jehovah intends to do and our faith moves us to be preachers of righteousness including that divine warning (which in fact is good news to those who love righteousness.)
I'm not clear on your point here (sorry). In reading Matthew 24 I must admit, I do get the very distinct impression that Jesus was answering his disciples' request for a "sign" that would indicate a situation they would not otherwise recognize (Jesus' invisible presence) unless they could see something they could recognize as a sign/warning. Why would Jesus repeatedly suggest as in vs :42 "Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming," - if there was nothing evident to watch for? Verse 33: "Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors."  Whereas as verse 36 says: (and is pointed out by the commentaries); "Concerning that  (specific) 'day and hour' nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father," they would be aware of the signs that would alert them as to when to be on the watch. I get the impression that whereas Jesus indicated a period of time indicating his presence, (that could extend longer than people might expect) in which to be watchful of the evident signs that would signal his presence, they would still need faith, endurance and alertness - to "keep on the watch" because they wouldn't know the narrow time frame of the "day and hour" in which the end/judgment would come - it would come as a "thief."

I understand your observation better now I think. Thank-you. Although there are a lot of "perhaps...didn't necessarily...undoubtedly.." = conjecture; it is a valid point that there is conjecture from both points of view and we can't be dogmatic about what is not expressly stated in God's Word. As far as what we individually would accept comes down to some extent to what we may think makes the most sense considering all,  - but without being dogmatic and expressing it as ultimate truth. There are some things I put on the back burner that there is no smoking gun for, yet we teach as revealed truth or new light. I take a "wait-and-see" attitude realizing the truth will eventually be realized even if we make mistakes along the way.

I can't say I disagree with other posts pointing out that the actual words say "knew not," "did not know..." It's also a fair point to be made that if the Bible doesn't actually say something, our translations shouldn't take liberties to make it appear as something different. As lauded as our NWT is for it's accuracy in some circles, there is no denying that at times liberties have been taken. Especially in our latest revision. Still I like it and use it (along with others). The point I was making in quoting these other commentators is that it would appear that using the same scriptures as a basis, they came to much the same conclusion in their observations as indicated in the NWT. That people living at Noah's time must have known something was up and were not completely ignorant of what was to happen, but they took no note (they chose to "know not".). According to (some) Bible commentators, they "knew not" in the sense that they didn't want to know. I can't say I'd be dogmatic that Noah's being a preacher of righteousness included warning people of an imminent flood. But warning people in order for them to make a change/turnaround does seems consistent with the way Jehovah often does things - giving even wicked ones an opportunity to make a choice for live or death. So to me as posted above, it does seem "most likely" that Noah as "preacher of righteousness" included some kind of warning.

Fact: Christians have been tasked with preaching the good news of the kingdom in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations before the end comes...That being the case, it makes sense to me that records of both time and resources would need to be kept in order to determine where to allocate said time and resources to where they are needed most. If things didn't take place in a highly organized way ("decently and by arrangement") and everyone kept their figures to themselves as to where, how and how much effort was needed, just doing what THEY felt needed to be done, it would be an anarchy of individual perceptions. After all, who wouldn't want to spend the rest of their lives preaching/living near a beach in Hawaii? (or substitute your favourite destination here). It seems clear to me that extensive records are not just desirable, but necessary. Even corporations recognize that. HOWEVER...as has been discussed, another fact...
Fact: If the motivation for our ministry is to be noticed by man rather than love for neighbour or God then there is something wrong. Can recording hours and handing them in contribute to a mindset of just putting in hours; can it contribute to wanting to be noticed for your "works" before men? I believe that is a possibility, but not a given. It would be unfair to paint with such a wide and tainted brush. Still, and especially lately I have seen pioneers fudge their reports so as to "get their time in." And that fact doesn't go without notice from those who struggle/extend themselves to be out. These "phantom" pioneers are described as "members of the 'Secret Service'" - since only God knows how they get their time in without actually doing anything. (OK, I'm not actually encouraging that type of description or being critical or judgmental of what others do), but I know for a fact that it happens. 
So while I see and recognize that filling in reports and counting time is not a specific requirement spelled out in God's Word, I can see and appreciate why it can be useful in facilitating the preaching work we are endeavoring to do. It just should be with the right motive. Which is essentially what everyone agrees with anyway here as far as I can tell.
 

I can't say I disagree with other posts pointing out that the actual words say "knew not," "did not know..." It's also a fair point to be made that if the Bible doesn't actually say something, our translations shouldn't take liberties to make it appear as something different. As lauded as our NWT is for it's accuracy in some circles, there is no denying that at times liberties have been taken. Especially in our latest revision. Still I like it and use it (along with others). The point I was making in quoting these other commentators is that it would appear that using the same scriptures as a basis, they came to much the same conclusion in their observations as indicated in the NWT. That people living at Noah's time must have known something was up and were not completely ignorant of what was to happen, but they took no note (they chose to "know not".). According to (some) Bible commentators, they "knew not" in the sense that they didn't want to know. I can't say I'd be dogmatic that Noah's being a preacher of righteousness included warning people of an imminent flood. But warning people in order for them to make a change/turnaround does seems consistent with the way Jehovah often does things - giving even wicked ones an opportunity to make a choice for live or death. So to me as posted above, it does seem "most likely" that Noah as "preacher of righteousness" included some kind of warning.

Fact: Christians have been tasked with preaching the good news of the kingdom in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations before the end comes...That being the case, it makes sense to me that records of both time and resources would need to be kept in order to determine where to allocate said time and resources to where they are needed most. If things didn't take place in a highly organized way ("decently and by arrangement") and everyone kept their figures to themselves as to where, how and how much effort was needed, just doing what THEY felt needed to be done, it would be an anarchy of individual perceptions. After all, who wouldn't want to spend the rest of their lives preaching/living near a beach in Hawaii? (or substitute your favourite destination here). It seems clear to me that extensive records are not just desirable, but necessary. Even corporations recognize that. HOWEVER...as has been discussed, another fact...
Fact: If the motivation for our ministry is to be noticed by man rather than love for neighbour or God then there is something wrong. Can recording hours and handing them in contribute to a mindset of just putting in hours; can it contribute to wanting to be noticed for your "works" before men? I believe that is a possibility, but not a given. It would be unfair to paint with such a wide and tainted brush. Still, and especially lately I have seen pioneers fudge their reports so as to "get their time in." And that fact doesn't go without notice from those who struggle/extend themselves to be out. These "phantom" pioneers are described as "members of the 'Secret Service'" - since only God knows how they get their time in without actually doing anything. (OK, I'm not actually encouraging that type of description or being critical or judgmental of what others do), but I know for a fact that it happens. 
So while I see and recognize that filling in reports and counting time is not a specific requirement spelled out in God's Word, I can see and appreciate why it can be useful in facilitating the preaching work we are endeavoring to do. It just should be with the right motive. Which is essentially what everyone agrees with anyway here as far as I can tell.
 

I can't say I disagree with other posts pointing out that the actual words say "knew not," "did not know..." It's also a fair point to be made that if the Bible doesn't actually say something, our translations shouldn't take liberties to make it appear as something different. As lauded as our NWT is for it's accuracy in some circles, there is no denying that at times liberties have been taken. Especially in our latest revision. Still I like it and use it (along with others). The point I was making in quoting these other commentators is that it would appear that using the same scriptures as a basis, they came to much the same conclusion in their observations as indicated in the NWT. That people living at Noah's time must have known something was up and were not completely ignorant of what was to happen, but they took no note (they chose to "know not".). According to (some) Bible commentators, they "knew not" in the sense that they didn't want to know. I can't say I'd be dogmatic that Noah's being a preacher of righteousness included warning people of an imminent flood. But warning people in order for them to make a change/turnaround does seems consistent with the way Jehovah often does things - giving even wicked ones an opportunity to make a choice for live or death. So to me as posted above, it does seem "most likely" that Noah as "preacher of righteousness" included some kind of warning.

One thing is being constantly oriented in this way, and the other is merely using "numbers" as a guide. A good Elder is also a good Christian, and as a good Christian he will act in a Christian way, regardless of numbers.
Something tells me this discussion we’ve got going on here has much deeper significance than just having a tizzy over a few record cards and how elders respond to them. Surely we all agree that blowing ones trumpet is wrong, and condemned by Jesus on many occasions.  So really, it can’t be about that, otherwise it would be too obviously hypocritical. Numbers by themselves mean something, but not everything, and as JWI points out IF as a publisher, we are merely concerned with the hours we put in, then we are blowing our own trumpet and merely performing token service. There are some who actually are like that, but eventually this backfires. I've known a few pioneers who left the truth to lead a selfish life. Maybe they had just been concerned about numbers. But we also have to be honest and admit that usually if someone is spiritually low, then the first thing (with Jehovah's Witnesses) is that field service suffers because out of the heart's abundance the mouth speaks.
It was relatively easy for the disciples to be eager about spreading the word. They’d  witnessed Jesus’ resurrection, were filled with holy spirit and experienced divine support. Charged with immense zeal to tell everyone about Jesus, they made Christianity spread like wildfire. BUT, the situation today is entirely different. What motivation is there to do what they did? What motivation is there to make disciples of all nations? What motivation is there to preach the good news? Not much evidently since most members of Christendom’s churches either think that this work is done, or leave it to the pastor, and if they believe there is still room to save a few souls they do not go out and teach the people the truth about God and his purpose. They barely even lead a Christian life themselves.
So if reaching a certain amount of numbers, (besides the love of neighbour), is what initially motivates one to get out of bed and go out and preach, then what is wrong with that? I mean, who of us doesn't admit to occasional reluctance in going out in FS rather than shopping/ golfing/staying in bed etc. and then, and despite "wrong" motivation, being rewarded with a really good and productive call and being happy that we had made the effort, despite initial "wrong" motivation?
Therefore I cannot agree with this statement:
In fact, this is going the way of the sentiments of Carl Olof Jonsson, (and others) whose ideas are very similar to the rest of Christendom, and are a cop out contrary to Paul's admonition to Timothy and by extension any Christian:  "Preach the word; be at it urgently in favorable times and difficult times; reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all patience and art of teaching. For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled. They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.  You, though, keep your senses in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelizer, fully accomplish your ministry"-  2Tim.4:2-5
So it seems this conversation has developed more into an excuse to take it easy as evangelizers, rather than whether it is right to record or not to record.
By the way,  I had a study with a lady who was amazed and impressed at the fact that every JW preaches the word, and for free! It was completely foreign to her since all she knew from her Church was organizing jumble sales (rummage sales) for charity. And that was their ministry. As a side issue, she also said that she had learned more from a few months studying the Bible with JWs than she had learned in 2 years in the church (she had previously been an atheist and "converted" because of a requirement to be able to adopt a child). 
 

2 Corinthians 2:3,4: "Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of tender mercies and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our trials so that we may be able to comfort others in any sort of trial with the comfort that we receive from God."
 What a wonderful arrangement. 

Beautiful. Thanks for posting what will be my new screen savers.