Arauna

One does not have to have the experience to be able to put yourself in another persons situation. The fact you have experience can make you too judgmental and emotional and crowd out common sense. It is not always an asset to have experience of evil things. To insinuate that we do not have empathy reminds me of these transgender people who are always playing the victim card. ..... they officially, according to the new philosophy, cannot discriminate against anyone because they have suffered and been discriminated against - which is most probably the biggest lie ever told to promote transgender politics. People who have been discriminated against often become the biggest discriminators of others in other areas.... but they are blind to their own mistakes. This is not true but I am a realist - I do not expect people to simply believe allegations even if it may be true (allegations are allegations until one has proof) - one needs facts and proof to put someone out of the congregation or in jail. You obviously do not understand that this is a world-wide problem and it is a symptom of Satan ruling this world. It is to a much lesser degree amongst Jehovah's people because we do make an effort to keep the congregation clean. In other religions one can fornicate and do all kinds of things and get away with it..... I think you are so filled with bias that you cannot weigh any of the facts in a sensible way. Other denominations do not have records because they have never made an effort to keep any.... so they do not get negative publicity because they actually have tried to do the right thing. I watched a documentary recently where a prestigious Jewish school teacher was abusing children and her husband was a rabbi. The school board warned her and she fled to israel where she is receiving protection from extradition. (rabbis and their families are treated like gods). I will not even go into Islam or some of the charismatic churches.... if you are blind to these abuses which are ingrained and allowed in the religions ....and only focus on JWs who at least make an effort to keep the congregation clean - then you will remain the same and not see any good and any religions. You can just as well be an atheist - and even they do this. Because I can guarantee you it is in the whole world in every place where there are children. You do not trust Jehovah to do it at the right time? If you believe he exists and if you know that he is using this organization to do the preaching work - then surely you can believe that he will cleanse it when it needs to have a new cleanse..... he has cleansed it in the past. I agree with you that Jehovah will start with his congregation first - the people who carry his name. No one can play with the living God - Annanias and Saphira are a good example of that..... .

OCD again! Obsessive compulsive disorder.

Refers to individual persons Jehovah's people as a nation will not be annihilated because they are not unrighteous as a collective..... individuals soil the spiritual paradise. The final attack at Armageddon will be a direct attack on the anointed for sure..... There has been a cleaning of our teachings and ongoing progress of our procedures... and hardship has been like lye to wash us clean. We are imperfect people just like israel was a very imperfect nation. Nevertheless Jehovah used Israel for his purpose.... and his purpose now is the preaching work world-wide and to sound the warning and to get us all in a condition where we can live through Armageddon. They are fulfilling this commission and have stuck to this no matter what happened - through good and bad times.

Soon to come my dear! Seems you know how to grab all kinds of quotes but you have not read any to make sense of it.... Do that.... you may learn something! I do not waste my time with people who just want to argue for the sake of arguing. So what do you think of Agenda 21 and UN Compact 2018? After all - this is the subject - what is your superior understanding about it?

Accusations, accusations of being institutionalized problem.... make up your mind. In previous response you said you are not accusing all of us of being child molesters and condoning this.... And broadcasting will just give people like you more ammunition to dissect and accuse. As I said there - Jesus was being perfect and righteous and could not stand up to the scrutiny of the unrighteous. If you want to stone someone - you will find a stone. JWs do NOT condone child sex abuse and when we have proof they are put outside of the congregation.... and we used to keep records before any other organization did so and there was no legislation requesting this. For most part we have a peaceful and clean organization. But you are unrealistic regarding this world. I laugh at your naivety regarding this world. You are definitely very uninformed about what is going on. We are squeaky clean compared to the world. 1002 cases in 70 years? One case is too much ..... but most of these were not convicted cases and they were followed up and notes kept.... I am impressed that JWs did this when other organizations did not even 'bother' to do so. So you think a young boy of 12 who touched a girl inappropriately should be called a child molester for the rest of his life? Most people will think this young boy raped or had sex with minor girl. A lot of young boys at 17 years have consensual sex with girl of 15 years. The police often wait until they are 18 and then charge them as adult to have sex with minor..... You think this is OK justice?..... I am exposing your ignorance regarding this matter. We are not talking about drinking or drunken driving - we are talking here in this subject about having sex with minors. It is easy to judge the application of law and rules.... until you are in the judgment seat. This is why Jehovah cautions us not to judge others because then you are judging law..... few people are really wise enough with understanding of both sides to make a very sound and righteous judgment. I just looked this up on internet very quickly for james 4:11-12 (one of my favorite scriptures) This interpretation is not from a JW website but their understanding is similar to ours: james 4: 11-12 I don't get James' logic here. How is an act of judging a brother an act of judging the law? Good question. One possibility is that you are complaining that the law has not properly judged and 'punished' this brother. Think of how the elder brother begrudged his father's forgiveness of the prodigal when he returned. But I suspect we are missing something about Jewish legal interpretation here. The Law (Torah) is holy, the word of God, and by definition cannot be judged. Judging means slandering the neighbor, something the Law forbids you to do (Lev. 19), so by doing that you are "judging the law," i.e. putting yourself above the law, or as we would say "taking the law into your own hands." Be careful that you do not do this.... that is if you really care about your relationship with Jehovah.

The broadcasting is a public forum for 'spiritual strengthening' not for diverting to personal matters. People who hate us gave more than enough twisted publicity to the Australian commission and they always left out the fact that we were the only organization to keep notes when there were no proper laws in place. In fact, ALL the media usually do not give any information on laws - they just act as if these laws were always in place. This is the weak standard of reporting these days. For our organization to defend the lies will just bring more condemnation because they will say we are defending child abuse.... or people can twist it so it looks like this. With hateful unreasonableness- one cannot win a satanic battle - whatever you do... the world system condemned Jesus, Paul. Stephen and many more and we know that Jehovah found them righteous in a very unjust world. How long ago was this? I do not know of any law which tells the elders or any spiritual organization to keep the notes for 50 - 70 years? Our organization was keeping notes when no other organization was keeping notes.... so if a person leaves the organization or stops coming to meetings would it be fitting to keep the notes? .... when there is no organization keeping notes. You expect such high standards of elders who are not 'police' with archives but merely spiritual shepherds. They are not supposed to persecute people they "think" are not good people and have not been 'convicted.' America is one of few countries which has an offenders list when peoples names are publicly on a list. So, if you did a stupid thing as a teenager you will be on this list forever until you die and your life is ruined. Does this sound like justice? Even if these people (offenders) want to change they cannot because they have to live with other offenders because they struggle to find a home which is far from children etc. It is like living with leprosy....They have to live far from the city and these people are persecuted by society. There are many individuals who are hateful and do not leave them alone to live their lives..... they persecute them and interfere in their lives so they cannot find a job or anything else.... would you like to be treated like this? What is the difference between these people and ISIS who feel they have the right to take the wrath of god into their own hands...? If you guys are so smart on justice and victims I think you are persecuting the wrong religious organization and holding this organization to an incredibly unrealistic high standard for this wicked world. I can give you the names of other religions where child sex and marriage is allowed..... and it is also allowed by the Law in western countries - for these people are now allowed by law to have their own religious leaders to judge all their cases by themselves. Ever heard of no-go zones and Sharia law?... where police do not go into the town? If you are really so worried about victims - then become a justice warrior and stand outside these other organizations and towns with a banner. I dare you and I guarantee you - I actually put a bet on it - that YOU would be taken into custody by the police.... Recently a woman who exposed a sex ring got 6 years prison in UK for islamophobia. If you think justice is in the world system forget about it - but you just love to bash Jehovah's organization because you know we are decent and we do not condone any porneia - we do have high standards but we are fallible people - not God. These very people who bash us for not doing enough are usually also the ones who condemn us when we do not speak to these people once they have been put outside of the organization. What I am demonstrating here is that we are always held at a much higher standard than any other human organization and people do not take into account that any person can drift away from Jehovah and start to fall back to old habits - like alcoholics and child offenders. I do not in any way defend this behavior - but you obviously think you know more than God because you feel that the offender should not be given any chances at all and should be persecuted for life. I think our rules for handling this matter is the best we can come up with to bring mercy and justice into the equation. That is - if one understands both sides and one understands the nature of the secrecy of the crime. I am not emotional about this at all. I just get impatient with people who CONTINUALLY accuse and accuse our organization without understanding all the issues involved. I can accuse you of getting emotional and bias against our organization. Watching a few videos on tape during the a government commission does not make one an expert on this matter...... on needs to think all issues through properly. Unfortunately you get justice warriors who think they have more righteousness than everybody else to judge the organization and to judge others on what they do when they themselves have no experience of running any organization and making decisions on very difficult matters. Yes - we have cross-examined people to try to get to the truth - but we did this in private - not with the perpetrator sitting in front of the child victim...... but the law in USA used to allow this. These methods have proved to be a second trauma for the child involved in the legal court system. Legally they only acknowledged this in 2003 law when they did not allow cross-examination of children any more.... because they could not get convictions No - the Australian commission was not about 'shaming' organizations. Yes - people used it as a nasty tool to only shame Jehovah's organization because they hold us to incredibly higher standards than anyone else. BUT - if there are no laws in place then the elders can report it until they are blue in the face and NOTHING will happen in the judicial system. Police cannot act on their feelings - they need the proper laws to refer to, to be able to build a case. This commission was to improve the laws that are in place and to cover the loopholes.

I saw that you just accuse and accuse the GB and your knowledge is very little.... so I usually do not argue with people who think they know it all and have so little knowledge. You also seem very immature and your reasoning does not have much logic going on..... .... well. I think Anna has been patient with you and kind..... I would not be so nice... What you want is a proper witch hunt of JWs to go after a person in public and persecute him.....maybe get a newspaper article? You do not sound reasonable at all. We do our duty in the congregation and we do it in the reporting to the police (if there are legal laws in place). What else do you suggest we do? I recall Anna asking you this question and you did not answer it. If there are no legal laws for reporting the crime in place then police are not obliged to follow it up - logic conclusion heh? Does this compute? Even if there are laws in place it seems the police are too busy to do anything regarding the matter these days. The person involved must then file a civil law suit.... maybe the incentive to get a lot of money will get them to report it.... Mr Butler - It is easy to take the moral high ground and try to prove you are so righteous and justified to criticize the GB and elders....... but I do not think you have any experience in running such a large organization and you cannot even imagine it.... if you could you would have shown more reasonableness. You may find yourself one day being accused of a crime you did not commit - then you will be grateful for people showing caution to not just condemn you without proper evidence. There is two sides to every case.

Yes - there were no proper laws to prosecute people back then. It is the fault of congress for not having decent laws. I was alive in the 50, 60s. It was only in the 60s when people started to talk about sex with "flower power" and the sex revolution took place. It took much longer for sexual abuse to be discussed in public. Only after this laws started to appear in some first world countries but they were very weak laws to be able to get a conviction.

I just laugh at the ignorance of people on this forum - most countries do not care about child sexual abuse... only in the west in first world countries do you find this and this is now being eroded by Sharia law. So many of these kind of cases are no longer followed up. Some victims do not want to report it to the police - if they are not a minor then the elders cannot overrule the victim's request to remain silent. Of course the elders watch out for the rest of the congregation in this case if the alleged perpetrator is still there. But one must remember "alleged is not yet "found guilty". How often have I not heard them say on stage that parents should accompany their children to the bathrooms - do they listen? Not always. Do parents vet their friends in the truth? Not always...

Mr Butler - all I see is a lot of whiners about sex abuse and they only have hearsay as proof - so they are not prepared to stick their own head out and do something. So if you are not prepared to do something yourself then who put you in a situation to judge others whom you feel have not done enough?

While there are laws in place for reporting this crime - I know for a fact that there were child sex rings in several villages in the UK where the parent went to police and they were not followed up in UK.... just read up about Rotherham....it is only one of the places. There are also laws in place which protect lawyers and preachers from revealing confidential information.... So elders will tell the parents to report it - especially if the evidence is scant. Professionals are hopefully available at the police station to speak to the child and get evidence for a conviction. While I cannot say I like this law - the other aspect of it also gives the repentant person a chance to get their life back on track. Someone said that they may do it again....... yes the possibility is high. But if parents with children are informed about it then an eye can be kept on the perpetrator so his freedom is curtailed. Jehovah allows for repentance - so must we find them guilty before they have done it again? Is watching them person with an allegation against them not enough?

I did not read the comments above. I did my own research on the history of the laws regarding this subject a few years back. I just get so sick of those who always want to put the Organization in the bad light - they use the available information to twist the truth to look like the organization is full of pedophiles and condoners of it. In Australia there were records to the effect that Jw's had about a thousand people since 1950 - which means , in the last 70 years - these were alleged child sex abusers. Some of these were accused but there was not sufficient proof to put them out of the congregation. In this time there were about 40 years that there were no proper laws in place to prosecute - and later when they could there were still not child services readily available and the laws were very bad. It did not protect the child from a victimization via the court system. Of all the organizations interviewed (almost 2000) - our organization was the only organization (of all the churches, youth organizations, sports organizations that work with children) which kept notes on these people because there were not laws in place to prosecute. JWs kept notes on them so they could not go to another congregation and not be informed upon. While it is a heinous crime and bad people can slip into the organization I think people are incredibly naive if they think that this number is high. In 2003 a law was passed in United States which made prosecution of sex offenders easier. Before that the child could be cross-examined in court by the defender's hostile representatives. They allowed for taped evidence etc. It is easy to look back with todays laws in place and judge the past on this. I have mentioned it before on this forum and then the very same people after a while open up the same subject again - which means that they are not prepared to be reasonable and really weigh the evidence. The purpose of the Australian inquiry was to address the gaps in the law and they were investigating the procedures various organizations were following to find out where the gaps were so better legislation can be put in place.

Can someone please tell me what the laws were in the 1950s, 1960, 1970 and 1980s in most countries of the world? If you can answer this then I am prepared to talk to you. You seem to rush to condemn the organization for not doing something when there were not yet laws in place.... so hurry and do some research!

There are politicians involved in sex rings in UK, EU and USA and it is covered up. In the end - Jehovah is the judge. People who think they can get away with crimes will face Jehovah - soon. IN Germany young girls and little boys are regularly raped and groped. Most cases are not followed up. And there are court cases which are totally absurd. A woman in a wheel chair in Sweden - case was thrown out because she did " not give enough resistance". Germany: a woman is facing charges because she defended herself against a rapist. The world is getting totally blinded by satan - and the ones who are assisting this are the judges and the police who get their orders "from above" - that is if they value their jobs. I watched a video where one of the highest authorities in England - a woman who exposed crimes against children - in her capacity as the head of a large government agency was hounded by the entire police and judicial system. It was heart breaking to hear how they put her in prison under false names so her family did not know where she was.... she lost her house, job and everything she had worked for her whole life. This is the kind of justice that is going on behind the scenes. Satan is literally not ruling behind the scenes any more - he is absolutely openly running everything through his human power-seekers! This is not a fabrication ! It is really going on. The truth is hidden by all the lies that are now in the public domain. Some of the true stories sound more like fabricated stories and the lies are believed as truth.

If you have run a global organization then I will talk with you again. Every country has its own laws and in most countries where there are laws against child sex abuse there is no follow up. America and Australia are two countries who still follow up but this is becoming harder as Laws in the countries are being eroded. South Africa has the best laws in the world but there is no longer law and order. Murders, corruption, killings, robbery are not even followed up - only in high profile cases. Children are abused daily in the schools by their own teachers to get marks to pass. They have the highest rape statistic in the world (of countries who report this). It is easy to criticize a world wide organization who use lawyers. But each country has different laws and the lawyers will apply the laws of the country. If the rape can be proved and the level of violence established then a person will be put out of the congregation even if the laws of the country are weak. BUT this is one of the hardest crimes to prove.... because it is always hidden.

Yes - the alleger himself sounds very bias and confused. He has done nothing himself but is also complaining about it all the time..... He understands what he will get involved in if he does. It will be an interesting test in UK..... because there are numerous cities where gangs have been operating more than 15 years and have been exposed when the [police could not keep it under wraps any longer.... - the police were aware of it and did NOTHING.... eve when parents went to them. One whistleblower went to prison for 6 years for exposing them publicly as Muslims....... Hate speech laws are now stronger than any other felony.... Since this young man is not a Muslim he will definitely have the full wrath of the law upon him and the elders will too! ......it will become a widely publicized case to prove that JWs are really rotten people..... But what must be done must be done. So someone can assist the young girl to make a case against the young man.....and inform the father that it is going to be done so he can go with if he wants to. ..... If he is smart he will because the elders have told him to do so....of that I have no doubt. That is what could be done to follow the law which is on the books.

Has he been confirmed to have a mental disability? All these questions are important. How old was the girl at the time.... A sin was committed here. For Jehovah's people this is serious because we do not allow these kind of things. There are countries in the world where "thigh-ing is legally permitted" in the religion on children as young as one years old. I am sure the elders dealt with in on a spiritual level and are watching him - in my mind there is no doubt about it. They are spiritual shepherds and look to the cleanliness of the congregation. That is all. Did the girl testify as to what did happen? ... or is it rumor? The congregation will never be informed of a case..... whether there was adultery, bad behavior or other stuff. We are not supposed to know other peoples business. ..... this is why they do not give a reason why someone was put outside of the congregation. Do you know if the young man showed repentance? This is an important factor for not putting someone out of the congregation. Any form of rebelliousness is a sign of wanting to follow your own way. .... and is a sure sign that he will persist in his way. yet, he may look repentant and yet go and do it again.... but time will tell. One cannot assume that he will do it again ...... but it sounds as if he has a problem because he seemed to have been just intent on the act. So there may be mental shortcomings. Has the girl spoken about it? If she is old enough she can go to the police herself. Or she can wait until 10 years has passed and instead of making a case against the boy and her negligent father - she will claim thousands of dollars from the organization.... Where was the father in all of this? That is my question. How does a family male friend go into your daughters room alone with her? What kind of people are they to allow a 21 year old to enter a girl's room and close a door? And what was he doing there alone when the father was not there? The father must be held accountable not the elders. Why is he not reporting it himself?

It is the father's duty to report it The girl needs attention for allowing it .... it seems to have been consensual. How old she was I cannot determine. The problem is that children do get up to serious mischief because of curiosity (especially in the young phallic stage of life). I know of children that were playing together and a lot of touching went on with young boys (one family) and girls from another family (parents were talking too much and not watching). It caused a rift in the congregation because the parents were blaming each other because their children 'would not have started it.' And the maturity is often not there to sort it out and leave it behind..... people go on talking about it over and over. The law states that lawyers and preachers have "confidentiality" regarding confessions..... (I wish they will change this clause but as far as I know it has not changed - and in various countries it may vary.). It seems to protect people who need a "confidant" but also makes it hard for elders. They may be personally liable for breech of confidence.... and they should be there for people who want to confess a sin. The elders most probably told the father of the girl to report it and he refused to. I do not see the age of the young man... was he under age? Under law this is a factor. I know of a young man (he was about 13 at the time) who touched his cousin inappropriately and it was reported to authorities. He went to 'special' school and he has been branded a child molester for the rest of his life. Curious young men do get into trouble unfortunately.... I would say - the young man in the above saga also needs serious attention because this was not just touching (which is porneia). I guess the elders worked with him and he now realizes what serious thing he did even though he is "slow". The girl too - she will now know she was involved with something unacceptable in the congregation. The elders will keep an eye on him - the problem comes when he moves - the elders may put this on his card.... Not sure about this. The awful thing about this is - that people keep talking and those who are the parents - do nothing. Both parents should have been advised what to do (and usually they are advised )but decided not to take the responsibility upon themselves because it brings a lot of legal and social welfare repercussions. So they rather blame elders - it usually is the case. No-one takes the responsibility themselves. Mr. Butler could have gone to the elders and told them what he heard and told them that he wants to report it to the police because the father did not.... and take it from there.... but he himself does not want to get involved but just blames the elders. There is nothing in his way to do this. But he knows he is also acting upon "hearsay" and has no evidence to support his claim. Our duty is to uphold the law of the land except when it clashes with the law of Jehovah. The irony of this is this: Jehovah's people have high standards and we freak out over this while the world is deteriorating fast. I read yesterday that New jersey is now offering transgender birth certificates. Children and sex rings are being abused everywhere and it is prevalent in the highest echelons of society - but well covered up. This is why the age of consent is getting younger and younger. In Europe a girl of ten can now get married and have sex. A high supreme court case in Germany recently overturned an Islamic case. So what is happening now is that Sharia law is now eroding the values of established western law. Germans are held to the regular law and Sharia law for immigrants. This makes the countries' law useless because now any girl can be targeted which reaches ten. If it is now reported to a police station they basically - DO nothing! In England the child sex rings have been exposed one after another and it is not in the media because of "islamophobia" . There was one case where a father went to the police station and begged them to do something and was turned away. ....... NO law enforcement - no rule of law and no justice..... welcome to the new reality.....

That is obvious..... But we do not accept that the earth took so long to be prepared by evolution. We accept that God created all the animals - and we are talking how the Cambrian explosion proves that most animals appeared in the same epoch - fully formed.

Yes - the age of the creation is a different matter to the sudden appearance of all animals which are fully formed. It is two separate subjects. Evolutionists usually ignore the Cambrian explosion and do not talk about it.

If you really know your chemistry and how things work you can calculate the rate of radiation buildup... especially if you know what you are looking for... Most scientists do not believe the bible so they do not even try. My brother has a special talent for discovering what a new molecule looks like - hence his profession of researching new poisons (on the plants in Africa which often kill animals). This of course sent him to jail because he refused to help the government kill dissidents by providing them with unknown/new poisons which he isolated and described the structures of. I must add my brother has no ego - he is talented but does not look for any kind of recognition at all - so he is not in search of some holy grail - he just loves knowledge and the bible. I We still have this curse on the ground and this produces weeds and unwanted elements which makes it hard to produce food. But - weeds and overgrowth and warmth do not affect animals - only the livelihood of humans So with a water band the animals will have been OK, big and fat and the pollution was not yet what it is today. What is significant in all of this is that they had never seen a rainbow before - so after the flood there was definitely a difference in the composition of the atmosphere to view a rainbow for the first time. Also - the grapes will have produced more sugar than before the flood with the stronger, unfiltered sun. Hence the event that Noah may have underestimated the amount of alcohol in his wine (not the same as before). Wine people know that stronger sunlight gives more sugar in grapes .... and hence more alcohol when fermented. So there are quite a few indications in the bible that things changed after the flood. For me the sedimentary layers which came during the flood are full of animals that could have lived until the flood.... but for this information I guess we have to wait until after Armageddon to find out.

Actually there are fossils in the remotest parts of the earth that are now totally uninhabitable areas. Some of the animals still have the green leaves in their bellies and there is evidence in many frozen deserts that this was a beautiful paradise some time in the past. To sustain such large animals the earth must have produced large plants and enough water for them to cool down in. The vast oil and coal fields are also proof of the abundance of animals and vegetative matter and trees which covered the earth at one stage I wish my brother and his friend in South Africa (both brothers) would write more on science. If I remember correctly his friend wrote his doctorate thesis on "water". I have heard them speak about the "heavy water" which is in the sea which has no current scientific explanation. Apparently it would not be a difficult thing for Jehovah to restore the water band. My brother did write a paper for his friends (he is a nerd in math and physics - he is the one that was a brilliant toxicologist before he went to prison) which proves that the detrimental radiation after the flood built up in the atmosphere very quickly and was the cause for the sudden drop in the age of people after the flood. He wrote a mathematic formula which proves the time period (he says that the bible is accurate when it comes to the time period) it took for mankind to degenerate. Yes - I agree there are no official papers to prove this but I think it is not improbable. The Organization have asked my brother a few times for interviews and to write his life story but he refuses. He developed the world wide official website on bloodless surgery.....for the bloodless society (for free) quite a few years back. He is a programmer as well and can fix any electronic device. His friend also wrote a "theory of everything" and my brother gave a copy to me. I have the paper somewhere and should study it in more detail. If I remember correctly, it brings all the electrical powers, gravitation, as well as magnetism together in one theory. The reasons that scientists today cannot fathom out the universe (all their theories are so diverse one cannot make sense of it) is because they refuse to acknowledge that Jehovah is the source of the dynamic energy. There are now physicists who have come up with a theory they call the " electrical universe" and they are also creationists. They say that there is no dark matter and their theory explains many of the phenomena / evidences which the current secular theories do not explain. We have an ozone layer at present and this does not mean that we cannot see into the vast universe. Similarly the water band protected us from the extreme radiation. It is a well-known fact that all our cancers and other immunity disorders come from a lack of Vitamin D. To get this vitamin D one has to spend at least 15 minutes in the sun every day. Even in Scandinavian countries they get skin cancer as a result of a lack of Vitamin D. What does this tell us? Man was made to work outside in the sun..... but not a harsh sun as we have now. There definitely were filters in the sky which filtered out the bad rays. The scriptures in the bible also state that there" had never been rain before " but a mist watered the earth. This indicates a much different earth before the flood than after. As I said before - the flood was a very violent event on the earth..... So my writing here is not a scientific statement - but it is speculation based on what we have in the bible and some of the evidence that is available on the earth.

I do not agree that their calculations of the time period BUT I use their own evidence against them. Do you know why? The Cambrian explosion stands for the explosion of animals who suddenly appear in the ground fully created. In the layers of earth before the explosion of this great variety of animals there are no partially formed fossils to prove that they developed over a long period of time and there are no fossils that show the gradual development. This proves that animals did not evolve over millions of years. Especially the birds appear ready with wings for flight. The subject of the calculations of their years is another matter.

There are no life forms in the evolutionary record which proves step by step development of feathers or flight etc. Cambrian explosion proves that. Fortunately nano-biotechnology has also proved the evolutionary theory to be a simplistic view of all life. Life is irreducibly complex and "connected" . With the word "connected" I mean this: the eye cannot see without the brain to interpret and why would that part of the brain to interpret develop if there were no eye. There is "foresight" in the development of both organs at the same time .... This proves design and intelligence. So everything is connected in the body. One does not need a biology degree to understand this. The evolutionists were winning the propaganda war a few years back - in schools and everywhere. It is pushed by the UN too - the 2030 agenda wants all children to accept the new morality and reject religion (Christianity). This is why we find pictures of "proven evolutionary frauds" still presented in school books as fact - current text books. Fortunately there is much more evidence available now to disprove the horrible book of Dawkins and other high priests of evolution. Dawkins turned so many people away from the bible.... but I am sad to say he no longer debates any Christians. He just goes on university forums where he an fellow evolutionists discuss the "plausible" side of evolution to his eager fans. I have seen a few debates where he bit the dust against people who are not even biologists. These philosophers managed to show him the logic and interconnectedness or morality with the god of the bible. Thanks for your input. I hope I did not create a "careless" impression by my choice of words. I am never surprised at the wonderful diversity and abundance Jehovah has created. Some dinosaurs could have been ground browsers like chickens, and others could have been water birds. Some could have been carrion eaters etc. I think - personal opinion - when one is right in the center of the group which needs to research and write about these things it can get a little distorted and panicky. I am not surprised - when the above "evidence" of bird evolution was presented without knowing it was a fraud..... they must have been consternated, flabbergasted and concerned - no matter how strong the faith....to present their readers with a logic answer. How do you counteract this kind of evidence? There is no logic to counteract it. One has to wait until the truth about this "evidence" comes out. It is always easier with hindsight to realize one should have waited - not when you are in a difficult situation. Trust in Jehovah is important and even anointed people can lack this at times. They are after all only people....prone to panic and prone to feel the heavy responsibility put on them. The older you are the more difficult too! To give guidance to many people is a large responsibility and when one is confronted with lies - not knowing it is a lie - can be difficult. This is why Jehovah says we must grow to maturity and in devotion but this only grows with experience ..... and time. Jehovah knows we are dust....

You guys ain't seen nothing yet! Soon you will see what is real control.... there is benevolent control and satanic control... .... Any case I found a new tit-bit. On the JW app is says that the beast with the seven heads has a different kind of rulership than the Eighth king. Small difference but significant. One should therefore not expect this organization which now is gaining power over many kings to rule in the same way as the other 7 kings have in the past. The subversion which has been going on behind the scenes and the kind of agreements which has been made is giving it power to go ahead with its plans despite opposition from some iron-like elements in society. The insidiousness of the ideology is infiltrating everywhere and the unthinking populations are giving it full support because it is deceivingly presented as a good rule with all the right buzz words. The gender inclusions, the environmental sustainability - all wonderful things. ..... until you realize the other aspects of the plan.