Arauna

Creationists believe the 6 days were 24 hour days. As I showed earlier - we believe these days were periods of time...because all 6 creative days are referred to as "a day" in the Bible. This is a major difference. For people who are so nit-picky on small details of the ancient history of Russell - you are pretty neglectful when it comes to attention to these kind of details.

If you watch the video - you will see how they discredited him, threatened, hounded him and spied on him. I have seen this so many times before - in other cases. These are the tactics these companies use. Where money is at stake - people are bought and they lose their integrity very quickly. These corporations usually pay other scientists to bring out studies that prove the opposite. Come on Ann, I did not think you were so naïve ......this is going on all the time! It is an established fact that environmental poisons disrupt the hormone systems of people ...... and Americans are getting sicker and sicker.... because the FDA and EPA are not the watch dog they purport to be. A lot of the members are compromised... but that is another subject. Many of the poisons allowed in America are not allowed in Europe at all! To give you a another good example: climate change. There are scientists who were paid to "scientifically" disprove climate change...and for a long time they had many Americans fooled. The evidence is now overwhelming... When we are dealing with human lives - we need to show respect for lives - not money. If there is the slightest inkling that a substance can hurt people or the environment then companies must not react in this way - but voluntarily withdraw a substance and not adhere to the subterfuge they put this professor through. I put this video for viewing so people can see what is going on. People know that these corporations are corrupt... but some do not realize how much they hound their victims. This scientist acted in good faith and was sure his data was correct - and look how he was treated. You really think this does not happen more often? This system is corrupt - only Jehovah will fix this when he removes all people without a conscience.. America's motto: In the dollar we trust. Definitely not God.

Watch this video: A dangerous poison and a professor threatened / entrapment because he published his findings and did not take bribes.

And people really think that we humans can cooperate to manage the earth well? This incident proves that humans cannot even do it on a local scale. We are mismanaging the earth by poisoning absolutely everything. The funguses in the ground and microbes (on which our lives depend) are dying off, we are destroying forests, desertification, our fresh water is poisoned and full of chemicals, we are decimating the animal populations....climate change - too much to mention... soon we will be at the point of no return. And then I still get people who tell me the world was "always" like this....and that scientists will come up with an answer.... Yea? They are ones manufacturing all this stuff that is destroying the earth ....and making money out of it ? They will only stop when they are forced to.... Humans do not have the will to do this - Jehovah will have to stop them at his appointed time.

Ok, you are obviously stuck on Russell.... in the 1800 's - which is crazy because JWs have moved on since 1919 - Russell had many things right - the mortality of the soul, Jehovah's name just to name only 2. He was not the only one who understood these things to be so. It is true that he attended other groups which existed in this time when he started to study the bible - because there was a general awakening to study the Bible among the populace.... but he was the one that wanted to publish all he knew and used all his resources to do so. He was also the one who received all the hateful publicity from the religious leaders. So it seems you are determined to ignore the 2 different Greek words pertaining to "coming" (I mentioned it above) and keep referring to Russell"? For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the 'presence' of the Son of man will be..... This is referring to Jesus's 'presence' - when he is busy ruling - before the final arrival of the destruction to come. Allan also explained this. But please can you explain to me the following? Who the faithful and discreet slave is who is "preaching the kingdom in the entire inhabited earth" to all the tribes and nations.... this is a sign of the end is it not in Matthew 24? Verse 14 says so. So this is a clear sign that we are in the time of the end - then also read verse 43-45. Also go on to explain to me Luke 21: 24 , "and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations* until the appointed times of the nations* are fulfilled." What is this appointed time of the nations? How do we know what it is - and how long is it? Did God just put it there as decoration?... to sound important??? or does it have specific meaning for those who search through the scriptures in the time of the end. Daniel 12: 4 + 3 says: "As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end.Many will rove about,and the true knowledge will become abundant.” 3 “And those having insight will shine as brightly as the expanse of heaven, and those bringing the many to righteousness like the stars, forever and ever. (they will be preaching). Who is Michael who "will stand up?": in this verse Daniel 1: “During that time Miʹchael will stand up, the great prince, who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. " Is it part of the timeline of God? Matthew 24 also refers to Daniel does it not? So this shows that some prophesy in Daniel has reference to the end... I suggest you read : What does the Bible really teach.... and analyze all the scriptures about the " trampling of the nations" and the one who "has the right to the throne". I am done now. There are many people out there who want to know what these scriptures mean....

There are too many scriptures which talk of Jesus's return " in the clouds". Jesus went back to heaven in a cloud and he told his followers his return would be the same. The whole world did not see him go back to heaven - only his followers were present. Today his true disciples understand that he is already ruling. And I again quote Revelation 12: 6- 12. Go and read it.. It is absolutely clear that Jesus would start ruling in heaven and there would still be a period of time on the earth after this.

Allan, thanks for laying it out so well. Ann, I would like to add the thought (since I work mostly amongst Muslim refugees) that most Muslims expect Jesus / Isa to come back in the flesh as a Muslim. He is then going to take up the sword and fight a war (in the flesh) the Dajjal and " break the cross". All Christians will then have to submit. (Sunni and Shi'a Muslims differ somewhat on this but they believe that there will be a "physical" war (with black flags like we see today) to "break" the cross and destroy the Jews. It is great to understand the truth of the bible because one can immediately refute these strange thoughts with the correct scriptures: I usually use Revelation 12: 6-12 to show that Jesus has already started ruling invisible in heaven - most Muslims do not know this - and they immediately understand that Satan in now been thrown out of heaven and that he is the cause of the tumultuous problems causing the terrible pain and suffering experienced under Islamism / IS at present. I also use the scripture which shows that God's true servants would not be mislead. The scripture is Matt 24: it implies that those who are being mislead will call out : "there is the Christ" - there is the Christ" (because they expect him in the flesh). 23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look! Here is the Christ, or, ‘There!’ do not believe it.24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will perform great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.25 Look! I have forewarned you.26 Therefore, if people say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it 27 For just as the lightning comes out of the east and shines over to the west, so the presence of the Son of man will be.28 Wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. (Revelation 19 depicts Jesus in heaven with an "army of angels "with him and how the wicked will fall.). Rev19: "Also, the armies in heaven were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in white, clean, fine linen. 15 And out of his mouth protrudes a sharp, long sword with which to strike the nations, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron. Moreover, he treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his outer garment, yes, on his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords. 17 I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: “Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God,+ 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of military commanders and the flesh of strong men and the flesh of horses and of those seated on them, and the flesh of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.” So it is not just misguided Christians who will expect Jesus to come in the flesh. Which may cause some chaos in future when all these people from different denominations expect a fleshly person to arrive - and most important: How will they identify him? By a miracle somewhere on the north pole? Or when he arrives in Africa? Will the rest of the world believe he arrived if he comes from some backwater place? Would God not have told us what he would look like? Mohammad thought of these kind of issues: There are attempts in the Hadith to describe the "Dajjal" - which are actually too nasty to mention here. When Jesus arrives in full power - a warning message will already have been sounded throughout the earth by the true followers of Chris (similar to Noah's day). As Ezekiel points out more than seventy times: "The nations shall know that I am Jehovah". So they will "understand" the signs because it will be very clear because Jehovah's people will give a final warning message. This message will make people very angry (gnashing of teeth). The violence in the world today is conditioning people to kill each other as the Bible says: the hand of brother will be against his brother." This is why I always urge people to develop the tender loving disposition that Jesus taught about. Because Jehovah's people will not fight (physically - in any way) when the rest of the world will be ready and prepared to do this. I see so much propaganda in the media (the three frogs mentioned in Rev 16: 13- 16) which is pitting nations and ideologies (religions who advocate weapons) against each other. The world is truly gearing up of a nasty finale! Most people I meet in the field agree that the signs are here and we are in the time of the end.... but similar to the time of Noah they get on with normal life (eating and drinking and giving out in marriage) and ignore what is going on around them. They do absolutely nothing to find out more about the truth.... Sad...

Making Walmart even more efficient so the shareholders make more money. Most of the employees earn so little that they have to supplement their incomes with food stamps..... which costs the government billions. When corporations pay very low wages they are in effect being subsidized by government.... many people fail to see this. Crazy world we are living in!

Thanks for article - good to know they are moving in this direction. Even if there are international rules - so nations can refer to it to call one another out on bad behavior - I doubt the renegades will adhere to it. Similar to all other international laws they will have something that diplomats can discuss but with little conformity. (Human Rights comes to mind).

Pity, it would have brought cheaper services to very poor communities in Africa...

The British press are the worst at fabricating stories ... and in most cases there is no smokin' gun! I feel sorry for the celebrities because their lives are often ruined by this and it is just too much botheration to go to court - so the press keeps doing it because there are no consequences!

No, it is not good to be de-sensitized.... this is what is happening in this world with all the bad things going on - we are all brutalized because we see and hear too much violence and we lose our empathy.... Soldiers who have faced combat are all brutalized in some way.... but we can also become like this even if we face lesser combat..... This is far removed from the love that Jesus taught. While the secular world believes all will be Ok if everyone just shows humanism - I believe this type of philosophy is not a solution to mankind's problems. Only the ideology of Jesus can work - the philosophy of self-sacrificing love. If all of society cares more for others than themselves - no one will have to watch their rights because everyone will look after each other and make sacrifices to look after each other..... but first the wicked - who do not buy into this life-style - who have their own selfish goals and agendas must be removed from this earth........ As you can see from this comment I am totally sold on the ideology that Jesus taught. There is no other solution for mankind's problems to get everyone cooperating to the collective benefit of a world-wide society. I think this is also why the governing body is focusing more on our life-style at present and how we should change our personalities.... but most of us are just imperfect humans beings and we do not listen very well. We know we have to do this but we do not always apply it because most individuals bring their past baggage to the table when they become Witnesses - and this can bring some discord..... and I am sure you are aware of the scripture where Paul said " miserable man that I am". I read Isiah 64: 6 the other day.... and I realized how contaminated and unclean all humans are in the sight of a sublimely supreme God and how far we all still have to develop. He really is a great forgiver! (Some translations refer to our uncleanness as a menstruation rag).... Tells it how it is!

the 'coming' ('Parousia' / presence) and the final 'coming / 'erkhomenon' And with this I am closing this discussion..... I do not expect you do agree with me.... believe what you please.....

Not surprised! China, North Korea and Russia all showing signs of extreme nationalism..... which leads to posturing and display of power. China building those islands.... and taking over other countries' sea space and doing this without military challenges because no-one dare challenge them...

All these politicians lie through their teeth to keep up appearances! If people ask me in field service what I think? I say that whomever comes to the Whitehouse is going to make large mistakes because we are in the time of the end - they are going to meet unprecedented international complications. I quote the scripture in Luke 21: 25 "and on the earth anguish of nations not knowing the way out." We are already seeing some of this in Europe with the refugee crisis. .... and more to come.

Oh- neat! Could be dangerous though!

It depends on 'which' return you are talking about. ..... I always remember that the entire world is hostile to the plans/ purpose of Jehovah and the person behind all of this is Satan - to confuse mankind. Satan is the inspiration behind most of the false religions that cause uncertainty and confusion - so the truth/light cannot shine through. Are you not surprised that there are always dissidents who are trying to distort the truth? Whether they are sincere and doing it without knowledge - or deliberately. It was the same in Jesus' day. The main leaders were using false witnesses to get what they want. They did not want the people to recognize Jesus as the messiah - but thankfully a few ordinary, crazy (in the eyes of others) people did! Studying the timeline of the Bible and how it fits into the greater plan of God - has been of great interest to me - how Jehovah is absolutely logical and all the time absolutely consistent in the outworking of his purpose throughout the ages. I have no doubt that Jesus is now ruling invisibly in the heaven and that his final "coming" is eminent. I love watching the news (and I preach to the Muslim community here) so I have had to re-evaluate a lot of things I knew about the bible.... The world is heading for its worst tribulation ever..... and there is nothing the world leaders can do about it. I therefore do not debate about small points or nitpick things. I am happy to know most of the important things we need to know....... Jehovah's name, the future government and the paradise earth, the mortality of the soul and that Jesus really put his soul in death for us; and that Jehovah is using a very insignificant group of people to do the preaching work in the whole world.... Yes Witnesses are VERY imperfect..... but I do not want to go back into the world or its false religions - and I include in religion atheism and Darwinism and secular teachings like humanism. I am happy to be still be part of Jehovah's people.... Jesus did not answer the Pharisees - only when there were other people present who could benefit from his explanations. He knew that they were hostile and were not there to learn something

Well as I said before - in my comment above - one can live in the past - in the time of Russell - in the 19th century! Russell still had the date right! All Jehovah's people have definitely moved on and received much more light since then - all the prophecies coming to their conclusion as predicted.. Some people are like an abusive spouse - who only look to the past and hold onto grudges so he-she can still have ammunition to beat the other spouse with. This kind of spirit is not productive.... The Jewish leaders were expecting Jesus around the time he was to start preaching because they asked John the Baptist if he was the Messiah when he started baptizing people. They were reading Daniel - for sure... They knew it was the time for him to 'come'. When Jesus did not fit the picture they had in mind - the rejected him. The stone (Jesus) became the stumbling block. .... You have not explained to me your version of the fulfillment of Revelation 12: 6-12 and the scripture which talks about Jesus ruling amidst his enemies.... and how you explain the two different Greek words for the English translation "come".

Question to you - to think about: Why did God give so many prophecies about the timing and arriving of the first coming and dedication of the messiah- and it was fulfilled right on time (70 week prophesy in Daniel). Would he not also give to Daniel a second prophecy which shows when he would start ruling invisibly in heaven as indicated in Daniel 7: 13 + 14? Must we ignore Daniel ? No, we must look at all the other scriptures which also discuss the coming, arriving and the standing up of the Christ, the 'coming' ('Parousia' / presence) and the final 'coming / 'erkhomenon' - when Jesus will have the important task of executing the great Day of God almighty. The day of God the almighty will take place at an unspecified day at the end of the 'Parousia' of Christ - which would not come as a thief to those who are on the watch. Many will say - "there is the Christ or there is the Christ" in the time of the end - because they expect him to come back in flesh. The bible clearly indicates in the chapter you are quoting from - that his "chosen" ones will not be mislead - because we do not expect him in the flesh. Why did Jesus give signs to indicate that we are in the Parousia..... because it would be 'invisible' to the world. But the final destruction? All will be aware of it because they will see his power in action! The scripture I quoted above Rev 12: 6-12 clearly indicates that after Jesus has ''come' in power and glory' and taken the throne he will throw Satan out of heaven and there will still be a period of time when wickedness will escalate on earth (Parousia) - which brings us to the final 'coming' "erkhomenon' - the time when Jesus would 'come' with vengeance and executer of Jehovah's judgment - just as in the days of Noah there would be a time period before the final day. Like a pregnant woman - those people with the right heart condition - can see the woman is pregnant and the signs of birth are eminent - they just do not know the exact hour and day. Similarly, we know that it is eminent - the woman is pregnant (we see all the signs of the Parousia) but we do not know the day and hour of the final judgment - just like in the 'days/ period' of Noah. The other scripture I mentioned above (Ps 110 ) shows that Jesus would be ruling amidst his enemies... Do the enemies know that he is already ruling? No - but his disciples do - because they are awake all the time. The final destruction will not catch the true disciples asleep because they are ready all the time. So - there must be different Greek words that were all translated as "coming". And this is so: there are two words: parousia (presence) as used in Matt 24: 37 - 39 just like the time of Noah - which was many years when they did not listen to Noah and the word Parousia also means to be "alongside". The other word used is: "erkhomenon" in Matt 24:30 which talks of the son of man coming on the clouds with "power" and glory to exact justice on earth. This is the time when the entire world will see evidence of the authority of the Christ - that he has been ruling amid his enemies. In 1914 Jesus used his power to throw satan out of heaven and clean the heavens but after this the earth is escalating in wickedness. This erkhomnon will be the 'coming' which cleanses the earth of wickedness. Truly this kingdom has a universal job - cleaning heaven and earth - but not at the exact same time. There is so much on this in the JW literature - so familiarize yourself with it and read it alongside your bible. Look up under the heading: the return of the Christ....

One of the signs of the last days: People have " No natural love" 2 Tim 3: 1-5 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of stress. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people. (revised standard version)

Thanks for the reply Allen ...and the encouragement. I regularly re-evaluate the Bible and the teachings of the Governing body - and it has strengthened my faith and loyalty to "being a reality" for me. An intrinsic evaluation of the Bible's ' logic and consistency' of the central Bible message (the theme of the Bible - a future government of God under Jesus to restore the unity in the universe) has made me come to the conclusion that the Truth (as the Witnesses know it) is the Truth and as the meaning of Jehovah's name indicates: 'Jehovah will prove to be' - very soon - when the world will see physical evidence that he is the true god... . When speaking to atheists I usually show them the bad conditions of the environment and the world (I follow the news to know what they are) and ask them if people are ever going to be able to resolve the overwhelming problems. There is no unity or cooperation between nations of the world or the 'will' to resolve these overwhelming issues - all look after their own interests and work 'independent' of each other. Then I explain how, in the Bible, Jehovah is giving us the 'restoration project' of the earth. Jehovah first identifies the ' root cause' of the problems, then provides a 'timeline of milestones' that has to be reached for the project to come to fruition. There are many points in the timeline (prophesies that identify the timeline). He chose Abraham (because he was willing to fully cooperate with god) and later we see that he chose the nation of Israel (who did not fully cooperate all of the time, but God still guided them to the point where the 'legal guarantee' arrived for our future - the ransom sacrifice of Jesus) which was provided. Jesus has a genealogy of 4025 years (in this timeline given throughout the history of Israel) and he came exactly on time as predicted in the 70 week prophecy in Daniel. Timelines are very important to this ' project of Jehovah' - so we on earth can see if the plans of God are still on track. Most of the timeline has been completed - so we can have faith that the few things that still has to go into fulfillment - will come true on time. God gives us all the necessary data we need for the timelines. He even gives the number of years that the "nations" will be ruling before Jesus starts ruling invisibly in the heavens (1914) - and defines a time period after this (the time of the end) before the Day of Jehovah - the day and time which no-one knows - and is the time Holly is referring to in her notes above). Jehovah only intervened in mankind's affairs when his future plan for the earth was being jeopardized by the enemy. He is allowing Satan to rule the earth to prove that mankind cannot rule the earth successfully when they choose to be independent from God and his moral standards. Society will always be at war until the entire society of the earth is cooperating together in self-sacrificing love. (The secular world is now adopting humanism as its form of love - but this is not self-sacrificing love - the kind of love that will help all to love each other tenderly in equity and make sacrifices to restore the earth to paradise conditions - as predicted.) Eventually the entire society of mankind will give glory to God in the way that they are following the moral guidance of God and be living in tender love with each other and respect all life (animal and human). It is therefore hard for me to speak to people like Holly who just goes to the letter of things and does not displaythis self-sacrificing love. She is not asking these questions to listen and learn. She has already made up her mind. I tend to be too critical of egotistical people who always have to be right - even if they do not understand much. I have also been a know-all - blow-all person.... but thanks to Jehovah I have learnt to tame my own ego and it is not about winning an argument - but about sharing wonderful things about God and to strengthen each other.... In the past I have tended to get nasty with bitter opposes but thanks to people like you - who step in.... I can display the kind of love God wants us to share at all times.

So from the above one can see that Jesus would be ruling amidst his enemies before he 'stands up' to bring destruction to the wicked on the earth. This is also a related subject.

I fail to see why people go back to Russell to evaluate the Truth we have today. I left a Christian religion because their credo was set in stone many hundreds of years ago and when a professor publically wrote that the Witnesses were right about the earth being a paradise again - he had to withdraw what he wrote or lose his job. If we all stuck to things said hundreds of years ago there would be no growth - like many Christian religions and Islam. I became a Witness because there are changes and they admit at being wrong about something and move forward. I evaluate Russell within the period he lived in - as I indicated above. Do you see this connection? Many people evaluate everything retroactively by today's standards. They usually fail to understand much of the Bible as Abraham and many people mentioned in the Bible lived in times much different to ours and one has to evaluate their laws and actions within the time period in which they lived. I study ancient archeology and I love history. The science of archeology only began in 1815 when Napoleon went into Egypt. It was during the following years, especially after 1830 that there was a rush to discover the ancient cultures mentioned in the Bible. Many people got onto the bandwagon of trying to see something more in the pyramids as related to the Bible, especially when more and more discoveries of artifacts of the ancient cities came about - the frenzy escalated. This was the time of Darwin and the challenges to the Bible too! The power of the old Christian religions were getting less. They had ruled the world for more than a millennium. New thoughts were coming out right on time before 1914. (Daniel 12 shows that the knowledge would grow more only in the final days) As I said in my previous comment - Russell and his friends had some of the facts - but not all. He was just a human being that was searching, and as I said before - it was only in 1919 (after Jesus made an inspection of the Christian religions on earth ) that he chose a group of sincere people to do the preaching work earth-wide. This was their commission. This does not indicate that they were perfect in any way. They still had to be cleansed of many false practices (pyramids, neutrality, Xmas celebrations, and many more - and this has been an ongoing improvement). Russell's calculations were arrived at through the Bible prophecy and a secular date. The secular date when the Jews were allowed to go back to Jerusalem is a well-established date. Russell counted 70 years back from this (and the time it would take for them to get back) and came to 607BCE. From 607BCE they followed bible prophecy to calculate the number of years that the world powers would rule before Jesus took the throne in heaven... but Russell unfortunately tried to superimpose these calculations onto Pyramids....which was actually built for worship of the zodiac - to guide the pharaoh through the heavenly bodies and the stars! Just a thought.... have you studied the relevant prophesies and seen where the JWs today get the dates from? It is a fascinating subject. Russell believed that Jesus would start ruling in heaven in 1914 - which was calculated correctly. Russell thought it was at this time that Armageddon would take place - which was wrong. They did not yet understand the scriptures referring to a "great crowd" - a great group of people that Jehovah would bring out of mankind and who would survive Armageddon. Revelation 7: 9+ 14 Revelation 12: 6-12 Clearly shows:- (and Russell obviously did not yet understand this either - they were some of the first groups who broke away from the powerful religions teachings inherited from the reformation) - When Jesus takes authority in the heavens he would throw Satan and his demons out of heaven. (Jesus sat at the right hand of his father until 1914 when he received the Kingdom power from his father and threw Satan out.) The scriptures goes on to show that Satan would then create havoc on earth because he has a "short period of time left" This scripture clearly shows that there would be a period on earth when Jesus would be ruling invisible from heaven amidst his enemies Ps 110:1+2. For the calculations of the prophecies read the appendix of "What does the bible really teach" and for more on where the witnesses get the dates 607BCE and 1914CE read the insight on the scriptures. The insight on the scriptures also quotes from secular sources and you can go and check out the 'secular sources' by going to any good library or a reliable internet archive/ library. Most secular dates are not set in stone either but they give a good indication of the time period.

Russia doing what they always did very well - kill and detain dissidents. I see that China has also entered the fray in Syria. All the totalitarian states working together to gain more territory and destabilize other countries. Selling weapons to each other etc. Russia, China and Iran are bedfellows at present and Russia has made sure of its interests in Syria - the port. I see that Iran has heavy presence in South America and pushing its influence..... I see some territory creep... not land .... but influence.... I love to watch how things are developing and the more I watch - the more I am sure that we are building towards major world events...