Melinda Mills

The second book should be in the first position. The pink one came out in the sixties. The one with the music notes is from the fifties. The brown one came out in the mid-eighties.

It is fun to follow the discussions, but it is hard work to contribute. I am taking it this is a serious question. (Zechariah 8:23) “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.”’” Following is a story based on prophecy at Zechariah 8:23. The brother first literally held on to the skirt of his mother, who was of the anointed. *** w12 4/15 p. 18 Seventy Years of Holding On to the Skirt of a Jew *** Life Story - Seventy Years of Holding On to the Skirt of a Jew As told by Leonard Smith When I was in my early teens, two Bible passages struck me. Today, over 70 years later, I can still remember the time when I grasped the meaning of Zechariah 8:23, which speaks of “ten men” taking hold of “the skirt of a man who is a Jew.” They tell the Jew: “We will go with you people, for we have heard that God is with you people.” Select above article and read on. There is no prophecy with 2017 on it, but there is no spiritual famine now. We have more than we can digest. We can have comfort in hard times from the following scriptures. Jesus promised to be with us until the conclusion of the system of things . (Matthew 28:18-20) Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” God’s love will be unfailing regardless of the problem – real or imagined, encountered before or not yet encountered. (Romans 8:38, 39) For I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers 39 nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be able to separate us from God’s love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. He will help with economic problems; he will cut short the days so we can survive (Habakkuk 3:17, 18) 17 Although the fig tree may not blossom, And there may be no fruit on the vines; Although the olive crop may fail, And the fields may produce no food; Although the flock may disappear from the pen, And there may be no cattle in the stalls; 18 Yet, as for me, I will exult in Jehovah; I will be joyful in the God of my salvation. . . Relief will be on time (Habakkuk 2:3) For the vision is yet for its appointed time, And it is rushing toward its end, and it will not lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it! For it will without fail come true. It will not be late! ====== (Zephaniah 3:9) For then I will change the language of the peoples to a pure language, So that all of them may call on the name of Jehovah, To serve him shoulder to shoulder.’ *** w12 8/15 pp. 12-13 pars. 3-6 Carry On as Kingdom Citizens! *** REQUIREMENTS FOR CITIZENSHIP 4 Learn the language. Some human governments require that those applying for citizenship speak the dominant language of the country. Even after being granted citizenship, people may strive for years to master the new language. They may quickly learn the rules of grammar but may take some time to learn to pronounce the words correctly. Similarly, God’s Kingdom requires that its citizens learn what the Bible calls the “pure language.” (Read Zephaniah 3:9.) What is that language? It is the truth about God and about his purposes as found in the Bible. We “speak” the pure language when our conduct is in accord with God’s laws and principles. Citizens of God’s Kingdom may learn basic Bible teachings quickly and get baptized. Even after their baptism, however, they must strive to “speak” the pure language better and better. In what way? Each of us needs to close the gap between what we know about Bible principles and what we practice. 5 Study history. A person desiring to become a citizen of a human government might have to learn something about that government’s history. Likewise, those desiring to be Kingdom citizens do well to learn all they can about God’s Kingdom. Consider the example set by the sons of Korah, who served in ancient Israel. They took great delight in Jerusalem and its place of worship and in recounting the city’s history. It was not the stones and mortar that impressed them most but what the city and that place of worship represented. Jerusalem was “the town of the grand King,” Jehovah, for it was the center of pure worship. It was there that Jehovah’s Law was taught. It was to the people ruled by the King of Jerusalem that Jehovah expressed his loving-kindness. (Read Psalm 48:1, 2, 9, 12, 13.) Like them, do you have a desire to study and recount the history of the earthly part of Jehovah’s organization? The more you learn about God’s organization and how Jehovah supports his people, the more real God’s Kingdom will be to you. Your desire to preach the good news of the Kingdom will naturally intensify.—Jer. 9:24; Luke 4:43. 6 Know the laws. Human governments require that their subjects learn and obey the laws of the land. It seems only reasonable, then, that Jehovah should expect us to learn and obey the laws and principles that govern all Kingdom citizens. (Isa. 2:3; John 15:10; 1 John 5:3) Human laws are often flawed and may be unfair. In contrast, “the law of Jehovah is perfect.” (Ps. 19:7) Do we delight in God’s law and read his Word each day? (Ps. 1:1, 2) The only way we can learn God’s law is to study it for ourselves. Nobody else can do this for us. I am sure another contributor can think of another prophecy.

Agree that anything relating to the future also relates to the past. So I agree Revelation also mentions current and past events. However, by its very name, Revelation, it reveals things not before mentioned. These things are to occur in the future from the time of their revelation. It also coincides with the book of Daniel which also relates to the present in Daniel’s time but mainly on the future as these texts confirm. I will therefore print those quotes which help to identify the players and the periods in question. === “Our current understanding is that this fourth beast must be Rome, and yet, during the time of this beast was also the time when Jesus was given the kingdom.” JWInsider === The quotes below reveal in a satisfying way the time periods we wish to understand. The prophecy of Daniel is for the time of the end (Daniel 8:17) So he came near to where I was standing, but when he came I was so terrified that I fell facedown. He said to me: “Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end.” (Daniel 8:26) “What was said in the vision about the evenings and the mornings is true, but you must keep the vision secret, for it refers to a time many days from now.” (Daniel 12:9) Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end. (Daniel 12:4) “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.” The fourth beast is Rome – but there are extensions into our time (see paras. 24,25 of chapter 9 below) Pay Attention to Daniel’s Prophecy! quote below. *** dp chap. 9 pp. 130-131 pars. 6-7 Who Will Rule the World? *** 6 “As for these huge beasts,” said God’s angel, “because they are four, there are four kings that will stand up from the earth.” (Daniel 7:17) Clearly, the angel identified the four beasts that Daniel saw as “four kings.” Thus, these beasts signify world powers. But which ones? 7 Bible expositors commonly link Daniel’s dream-vision of four beasts with Nebuchadnezzar’s dream of an immense image. For example, The Expositor’s Bible Commentary states: “Chapter 7 [of Daniel] parallels chapter 2.” The Wycliffe Bible Commentary says: “It is generally agreed that the succession of four Gentile dominions . . . is the same here [in Daniel chapter 7] as that contemplated in [Daniel] chapter 2.” The four world powers represented by the four metals of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream were the Babylonian Empire (gold head), Medo-Persia (silver breasts and arms), Greece (copper belly and thighs), and the Roman Empire (iron legs). (Daniel 2:32, 33) Let us see how these kingdoms correspond to the four huge beasts that Daniel saw. *** dp chap. 9 pp. 136-148 pars. 18-39 Who Will Rule the World? *** The Roman World Power, however, did not end with the removal of its last emperor in Rome in 476 C.E. For many centuries, papal Rome continued to exercise political, and especially religious, domination over Europe. It did so through the feudal system, in which most inhabitants of Europe were subject to a lord, then to a king. And all kings acknowledged the authority of the pope. Thus the Holy Roman Empire with papal Rome as its focal point dominated world affairs throughout that long period of history called the Dark Ages. 19 Who can deny that the fourth beast was “different from all the other kingdoms”? (Daniel 7:7, 19, 23) In this regard, historian H. G. Wells wrote: “This new Roman power . . . was in several respects a different thing from any of the great empires that had hitherto prevailed in the civilised world. . . . [It] incorporated nearly all the Greek people in the world, and its population was less strongly Hamitic and Semitic than that of any preceding empire . . . It was so far a new pattern in history . . . The Roman Empire was a growth, an unplanned novel growth; the Roman people found themselves engaged almost unawares in a vast administrative experiment.” Yet, the fourth beast was to have further growth. A SMALL HORN GAINS THE ASCENDANCY 20 “I kept on considering the horns,” said Daniel, “and, look! another horn, a small one, came up in among them, and there were three of the first horns that were plucked up from before it.” (Daniel 7:8) Concerning this outgrowth, the angel told Daniel: “Another one will rise up after them [the ten kings], and he himself will be different from the first ones, and three kings he will humiliate.” (Daniel 7:24) Who is this king, when did he rise, and what three kings did he humiliate? 21 Consider the following developments. In 55 B.C.E., Roman General Julius Caesar invaded Britannia but failed to establish a permanent settlement. In 43 C.E., Emperor Claudius began a more permanent conquest of southern Britain. Then, in 122 C.E., Emperor Hadrian began to build a wall from the Tyne River to the Solway Firth, marking the northern limit of the Roman Empire. Early in the fifth century, the Roman legions left the island. “In the sixteenth century,” explained one historian, “England had been a second-rate power. Its wealth was slight compared with that of the Netherlands. Its population was much less than that of France. Its armed forces (including its navy) were inferior to Spain’s.” Britain evidently was an insignificant kingdom then, making up the symbolic small horn of the fourth beast. But that was to change. 22 In 1588, Philip II of Spain launched the Spanish Armada against Britain. This fleet of 130 ships, carrying more than 24,000 men, sailed up the English Channel, only to suffer defeat by the British navy and to fall victim to contrary winds and fierce Atlantic storms. This event “marked the decisive passing of naval superiority from Spain to England,” said one historian. In the 17th century, the Dutch developed the world’s largest merchant marine. With growing overseas colonies, however, Britain prevailed over that kingdom. During the 18th century, the British and the French fought each other in North America and India, leading to the Treaty of Paris in 1763. This treaty, said author William B. Willcox, “recognized Britain’s new position as the predominant European power in the world beyond Europe.” Britain’s supremacy was confirmed by the crushing victory over Napoléon of France in 1815 C.E. The “three kings” that Britain thus ‘humiliated’ were Spain, the Netherlands, and France. (Daniel 7:24) As a result, Britain emerged as the world’s greatest colonial and commercial power. Yes, the “small” horn grew to become a world power! 23 The angel told Daniel that the fourth beast, or fourth kingdom, would “devour all the earth.” (Daniel 7:23) That proved true of the Roman province once known as Britannia. It eventually became the British Empire and ‘devoured all the earth.’ At one time, this empire embraced one fourth of the earth’s land surface and a fourth of its population. 24 As the Roman Empire differed from previous world powers, the king depicted by the “small” horn would also “be different from the first ones.” (Daniel 7:24) Concerning the British Empire, historian H. G. Wells noted: “Nothing of the sort has ever existed before. First and central to the whole system was the ‘crowned republic’ of the United British Kingdoms . . . No single office and no single brain had ever comprehended the British Empire as a whole. It was a mixture of growths and accumulations entirely different from anything that has ever been called an empire before.” 25 There was more to the “small” horn than the British Empire. In 1783, Britain recognized the independence of its 13 American colonies. The United States of America eventually became Britain’s ally, emerging from World War II as the earth’s dominant nation. It still has strong ties with Britain. The resulting Anglo-American dual world power constitutes the ‘horn having eyes.’ Indeed, this world power is observant, astute! It ‘speaks grandiose things,’ dictating policy for much of the world and acting as its mouthpiece, or “false prophet.”—Daniel 7:8, 11, 20; Revelation 16:13; 19:20. THE SMALL HORN OPPOSES GOD AND HIS HOLY ONES 26 Daniel continued to describe his vision, saying: “I kept on beholding when that very horn made war upon the holy ones, and it was prevailing against them.” (Daniel 7:21) Regarding this “horn,” or king, God’s angel foretold: “He will speak even words against the Most High, and he will harass continually the holy ones themselves of the Supreme One. And he will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, and times and half a time.” (Daniel 7:25) How and when was this part of the prophecy fulfilled? 27 “The holy ones” persecuted by the “small” horn—the Anglo-American World Power—are Jesus’ spirit-anointed followers on earth. (Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 2:9) For years before World War I, the remnant of these anointed ones publicly warned that 1914 would see the conclusion of “the appointed times of the nations.” (Luke 21:24) When war broke out in that year, it was evident that the “small” horn had ignored this warning, for it persisted in harassing the anointed “holy ones.” The Anglo-American World Power even opposed their efforts to carry out Jehovah’s requirement (or, “law”) that the good news of the Kingdom be preached worldwide by his witnesses. (Matthew 24:14) Thus the “small” horn attempted “to change times and law.” 28 Jehovah’s angel referred to a prophetic period of “a time, and times and half a time.” How long is that? Bible expositors generally agree that this expression denotes three and a half times—the sum of one time, two times, and half a time. Since Nebuchadnezzar’s “seven times” of madness amounted to seven years, the three and a half times are three and a half years. (Daniel 4:16, 25) An American Translation reads: “They shall be handed over to him for a year, two years, and half a year.” James Moffatt’s version says: “For three years and half a year.” The same period is mentioned at Revelation 11:2-7, which states that God’s witnesses would preach dressed in sackcloth for 42 months, or 1,260 days, and then be killed. When did this time period begin and end? 29 For the anointed Christians, World War I meant a time of testing. By the end of 1914, they were expecting persecution. In fact, the very yeartext chosen for 1915 was Jesus’ question to his disciples, “Are ye able to drink of my cup?” It was based on Matthew 20:22, King James Version. Hence, beginning in December 1914, that small band of witnesses preached “in sackcloth.” 30 As war fever took hold, the anointed Christians encountered mounting opposition. Some of them were imprisoned. Individuals, such as Frank Platt in England and Robert Clegg in Canada, were tortured by sadistic authorities. On February 12, 1918, the British Dominion of Canada banned the recently published seventh volume of Studies in the Scriptures, entitled The Finished Mystery, as well as the tracts entitled The Bible Students Monthly. The following month, the U.S. Department of Justice pronounced the distribution of the seventh volume illegal. The result? Why, homes were searched, literature was confiscated, and Jehovah’s worshipers were arrested! 31 Harassment of God’s anointed ones climaxed on June 21, 1918, when the president, J. F. Rutherford, and prominent members of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society were sentenced on false charges to long prison terms. Intending “to change times and law,” the “small” horn had effectively killed the organized preaching work. (Revelation 11:7) So the foretold period of “a time, and times and half a time” ended in June 1918. 32 But “the holy ones” were not wiped out by the harassment from the “small” horn. As prophesied in the book of Revelation, after a short period of inactivity, the anointed Christians became alive and active again. (Revelation 11:11-13) On March 26, 1919, the president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society and his associates were released from prison, and they were later exonerated of the false charges against them. Immediately thereafter, the anointed remnant began to reorganize for further activity. What, though, would be in store for the “small” horn? THE ANCIENT OF DAYS HOLDS COURT 33 After introducing the four beasts, Daniel shifts his eyes from the fourth beast to a scene in heaven. He beholds the Ancient of Days sit down on his resplendent throne as Judge. The Ancient of Days is none other than Jehovah God. (Psalm 90:2) As the heavenly Court takes its seat, Daniel sees ‘books being opened.’ (Daniel 7:9, 10) Since Jehovah’s existence extends into the infinite past, he knows all human history as if it were written in a book. He has observed all four symbolic beasts and can pass judgment upon them according to firsthand knowledge. 34 Daniel continues: “I kept on beholding at that time because of the sound of the grandiose words that the horn was speaking; I kept on beholding until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given to the burning fire. But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away, and there was a lengthening in life given to them for a time and a season.” (Daniel 7:11, 12) The angel tells Daniel: “The Court itself proceeded to sit, and his own rulership they finally took away, in order to annihilate him and to destroy him totally.”—Daniel 7:26. 35 By decree of the Great Judge, Jehovah God, the horn that blasphemed God and harassed his “holy ones” will have the same experience as the Roman Empire, which persecuted the early Christians. Its rulership will not continue. Neither will that of inferior hornlike “kings” that came out of the Roman Empire. What, though, about the rulerships derived from the previous beastly powers? As foretold, their lives were lengthened “for a time and a season.” Their territories have continued to have inhabitants to our day. Iraq, for example, occupies the territory of ancient Babylon. Persia (Iran) and Greece still exist. Remnants of these world powers are part of the United Nations. These kingdoms also will perish with the annihilation of the last world power. All human governments will be obliterated at “the war of the great day of God the Almighty.” (Revelation 16:14, 16) But, then, who will rule the world? LASTING RULERSHIP JUST AHEAD! 36 “I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there!” exclaimed Daniel. “With the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One.” (Daniel 7:13) When on earth, Jesus Christ called himself “the Son of man,” indicating his kinship to mankind. (Matthew 16:13; 25:31) To the Sanhedrin, or Jewish high court, Jesus said: “You will see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” (Matthew 26:64) So in Daniel’s vision, the one coming, invisible to human eyes, and gaining access to Jehovah God was the resurrected, glorified Jesus Christ. When did this occur? 37 With Jesus Christ, God has made a covenant for a Kingdom, just as he had made one with King David. (2 Samuel 7:11-16; Luke 22:28-30) When “the appointed times of the nations” ended in 1914 C.E., Jesus Christ, as David’s royal heir, could rightfully receive Kingdom rule. Daniel’s prophetic record reads: “To him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.” (Daniel 7:14) Thus the Messianic Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914. However, the rulership is given to others also. 38 “The holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom,” said the angel. (Daniel 7:18, 22, 27) Jesus Christ is the chief holy one. (Acts 3:14; 4:27, 30) The other “holy ones” having a share in the rulership are the 144,000 faithful spirit-anointed Christians, who are Kingdom heirs with Christ. (Romans 1:7; 8:17; 2 Thessalonians 1:5; 1 Peter 2:9) They are resurrected from death as immortal spirits to reign with Christ on heavenly Mount Zion. (Revelation 2:10; 14:1; 20:6) Hence, Christ Jesus and the resurrected anointed Christians will rule the world of mankind. 39 Concerning the rulership of the Son of man and the other resurrected “holy ones,” God’s angel said: “The kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an indefinitely lasting kingdom, and all the rulerships will serve and obey even them.” (Daniel 7:27) What blessings obedient mankind will experience under that Kingdom! *** w12 6/15 pp. 15-16 pars. 6-11 Jehovah Reveals What “Must Shortly Take Place” *** THE ANGLO-AMERICAN WORLD POWER AND THE FEET OF IRON AND CLAY 7 What is the relationship between the seventh head of the wild beast and the immense image? Britain—and by extension, the United States—grew out of the Roman Empire. What, though, about the feet of the image? They are described as an amalgam of iron and clay. (Read Daniel 2:41-43.) This description coincides with the time when the seventh head—the Anglo-American World Power—would come to prominence. Just as an iron structure mixed with clay is weaker than solid iron, so too the Anglo-American World Power is weaker than the power from which it emerged. How? 8 At times, the seventh head of the beast has displayed ironlike characteristics. For example, it proved its power by winning World War I. During World War II, the ironlike power of the seventh head was also evident. After that war, the seventh head at times still displayed ironlike characteristics. However, from early on, that iron has been mixed with clay. 9 Jehovah’s servants have long sought to understand the symbolic meaning of the feet of the image. Daniel 2:41 describes the mixture of iron and clay as one “kingdom,” not many. The clay, therefore, represents elements within the sphere of influence of the Anglo-American World Power, elements that make it weaker than the solid iron of the Roman Empire. The clay is referred to as “the offspring of mankind,” or the common people. (Dan. 2:43) In the Anglo-American World Power, people have risen up to claim their rights through civil rights campaigns, labor unions, and independence movements. The common people undermine the ability of the Anglo-American World Power to act with ironlike strength. Also, opposing ideologies and close election results that do not end up in a clear majority have weakened the power base of even popular leaders, so that they have no clear mandate to implement their policies. Daniel foretold: “The kingdom will partly prove to be strong and will partly prove to be fragile.”—Dan. 2:42; 2 Tim. 3:1-3. 10 In the 21st century, Britain and the United States have continued their special partnership, often acting together in world affairs. The prophecies about the immense image and the wild beast confirm that the Anglo-American World Power will not be replaced by some future world power. This last world power may be weaker than that represented by the legs of iron, but it will not disintegrate on its own. 11 Does the number of toes of the image have special meaning? Consider: In other visions, Daniel mentions specific numbers—for example, the number of horns on the heads of various beasts. Those numbers are significant. However, when describing the image, Daniel does not mention the number of toes. Therefore, the number seems no more significant than the fact that the image had multiple arms, hands, fingers, legs, and feet. Daniel does specifically mention that the toes would be made of iron and clay. From his description, we can conclude that the Anglo-American World Power is the one that will be dominating when the “stone” representing God’s Kingdom hits the feet of the image.—Dan. 2:45. Who rules the world right now? The Rulers of the World Identified There is no need to guess at the matter, for the Bible clearly shows that an intelligent, unseen person has been controlling both men and nations. It says: “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” And the Bible identifies him, saying: “The one called Devil and Satan . . . is misleading the entire inhabited earth.”—1 John 5:19; Revelation 12:9. On an occasion when Jesus was “tempted by the Devil,” Jesus did not question Satan’s role as the ruler of this world. The Bible explains what happened: “The Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, and he said to him: ‘All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.’ Then Jesus said to him: ‘Go away, Satan!’”—Matthew 4:1, 8-10. Think about this. Satan tempted Jesus by offering him “all the kingdoms of the world.” Yet, would Satan’s offer have been a real temptation if Satan was not actually the ruler of these kingdoms? No, it would not. And note, Jesus did not deny that all these worldly governments were Satan’s, which he would have done if Satan did not have power over them. So, then, Satan the Devil really is the unseen ruler of the world! The Bible, in fact, calls him “the god of this system of things.” (2 Corinthians 4:4) Yet, how did such a wicked person ever come into this powerful position? The one who became Satan had been an angel created by God, but he became envious of God’s position. He challenged God’s rightful rulership. To this end he used a serpent as a mouthpiece to deceive the first woman, Eve, and was thus able to get her and her husband, Adam, to do his bidding rather than obey God. (Genesis 3:1-6; 2 Corinthians 11:3) He also claimed he could turn all of Adam and Eve’s yet unborn offspring away from God. So God allowed time for Satan to try to prove his claim, but Satan has not succeeded.—Job 1:6-12; 2:1-10. Significantly, Satan is not alone in his rulership of the world. He was successful in persuading some of the other angels to join him in rebellion against God. These became demons, his spirit accomplices. The Bible speaks of them when it urges Christians: “Stand firm against the machinations of the Devil; because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but . . . against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.”—Ephesians 6:11, 12. Why we must pray for the Kingdom to come *** w15 6/15 pp. 22-24 Live in Harmony With the Model Prayer—Part I *** “LET YOUR KINGDOM COME” 11 Before Jesus ascended to heaven, his apostles asked: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” Jesus’ answer showed that it was not the time for them to know when God’s Kingdom would start ruling. He told his disciples to focus on the important witnessing work that they needed to do. (Read Acts 1:6-8.) Nevertheless, Jesus taught his followers to look forward to the coming of God’s Kingdom. So Christians since the days of the apostles have been praying for it to come. 12 When the time approached for God’s Kingdom in the hands of Jesus to start ruling from heaven, Jehovah helped his people to understand the timing of events. In 1876, an article written by Charles Taze Russell was published in the magazine Bible Examiner. That article, “Gentile Times: When Do They End?,” pointed to 1914 as a significant year. The article linked the “seven times” of Daniel’s prophecy with “the appointed times of the nations” spoken of by Jesus.—Dan. 4:16; Luke 21:24. 13 In 1914, war broke out between nations of Europe—a war that spread and engulfed the whole world. By the time it ended in 1918, terrible food shortages had been experienced and there was a flu epidemic in which more people died than were killed in the war. Thus “the sign” that Jesus had given to identify his invisible presence as earth’s new King started to be fulfilled. (Matt. 24:3-8; Luke 21:10, 11) Ample evidence points to the year 1914 as the time when “a crown was given” to the Lord Jesus Christ. He “went out conquering and to complete his conquest.” (Rev. 6:2) He cleansed the heavens in a war against Satan and his demons, who were hurled down to the vicinity of the earth. Ever since, mankind has experienced the truthfulness of these inspired words: “Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”—Rev. 12:7-12. 14 The prophecy recorded at Revelation 12:7-12 explains why the birth of God’s Kingdom basically coincided with the beginning of the disastrous events that continue to plague mankind. Jesus, the King of God’s Kingdom, began to rule amid his enemies. Until his conquest is complete and he has brought an end to wickedness on earth, we will continue to pray for God’s Kingdom to come. At the same time, we must live in harmony with such prayers by sharing in the fulfillment of a most amazing feature of “the sign.” Jesus foretold: “This good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.”—Matt. 24:14. “LET YOUR WILL TAKE PLACE . . . ON EARTH” 15 About 6,000 years ago, God’s will was being done perfectly on earth. That is why Jehovah could look upon the fine start he had given to mankind and say: “It was very good.” (Gen. 1:31) Then Satan rebelled, and ever since, comparatively few humans have done God’s will on earth. But today we are privileged to be alive at a time when about eight million Witnesses not only are praying for God’s will to take place on earth but also are striving to live in harmony with that prayer. They do so by their way of life and by having a zealous share in the disciple-making work. 16 For example, a sister who was baptized in 1948 and who served as a missionary in Africa says: “In line with this part of the model prayer, I often pray that all sheeplike people will be contacted and helped to come to know Jehovah before it is too late. Also, when I am about to witness to someone, I ask for wisdom to reach the person’s heart. And regarding sheeplike ones who have already been found, I pray that Jehovah will bless our efforts to care for them.” Little wonder that this 80-year-old sister has success in her ministry and, along with aid from others, has helped many to become Jehovah’s Witnesses. No doubt you can think of other good examples of individuals who pour themselves out in doing God’s will despite the limitations of old age.—Read Philippians 2:17. 17 Until the enemies of God’s Kingdom are removed from the earth, we will continue to pray for God’s will to be done. Then we will see God’s will taking place in an even more complete way as billions are resurrected on a paradise earth. “Do not be amazed at this,” Jesus said, “for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear [my] voice and come out.” (John 5:28, 29) What a wonderful time to be alive to welcome back our dead loved ones! God “will wipe out every tear from [our] eyes.” (Rev. 21:4) Most resurrected ones will be “the unrighteous,” who lived and died without learning the truth about Jehovah God and his Son. It will be a privilege to impart knowledge of God’s will and purpose to resurrected ones, thereby helping them to qualify for “everlasting life.”—Acts 24:15; John 17:3. 18 Universal peace and harmony depend on the sanctification of Jehovah’s name by means of God’s Kingdom. Thus, the complete answer to the first three requests of the model prayer will fulfill mankind’s greatest needs. Meanwhile, we have other vital needs that are mentioned in the remaining four requests in Jesus’ model prayer. They will be discussed in the following article.

Point taken about Revelation also encompassing history of past, but I will have to look up what fourth beast represents currently. I know it was Rome, and you have to place it with what it said in Revelation about the 7th world power Anglo-American and the eighth beast, image of the world beast. Will check it later when I get back from field service.

"(Revelation 1:1) A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John" But the Revelation was given by God to Jesus then to John in the last decade of the first century after Jesus' ascension and He said the things were to take place shortly (2Pet 3:8); not about things that were already in effect like Jesus sitting at God's right hand which occurred in 33CE. Rev 12:10 is relating with joy the particular salvation referring to the permanent establishment of the Kingdom of God in the hands of Christ Jesus, poised to finish off this system of things and free from the interference of Satan and his demons (birth of Kingdom seen as male child safely caught away to God; and God's will being done in the heavens). It coincides with Daniel 7:13,14, (gaining access to be crowned) and will culminate in Daniel 2:35 (living at the time of the feet of the image) and Dan 2:44 (taking action toward the earth). All these events signify waiting intervals. You would therefore have to show how these events link up with the expressions of salvation in other parts of the Bible.

Thanks to Bruceq and JWI for the feedback on rain and water canopy. These discussions help us to refine and update our understanding and do further research. Running off now to finish preparation for meeting. Greetings!

Thanks, I understand. Appreciate the background info, though.

15 hours ago, JW Insider said: “Saw something interesting on this scripture related to the Bible reading (Ezekiel 12) for next week: (2 Peter 3:3,4) 3 First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.” The first thing was the cross reference from the NWT. The pre-2013 NWT cross-referenced 2 Pet 3:4 to Ezekiel 12:27 and I think I might have misunderstood the value of the cross-reference: (Ezekiel 12:27) “Son of man, look! those of the house of Israel are saying, ‘The vision that he is visioning is many days off, and respecting times far off he is prophesying.’ Without the context, this verse alone looks like a discussion about patience in waiting for the fulfillment of the promised prophecy. After all, Peter will go on to say that in Jehovah's timetable something could go on for a 1,000 years in our time, but could still be like a day in Jehovah's eyes. Of course, the verse in 2 Peter (and also the verse in Ezekiel 12) is not about fact that something might be fulfilled in a far off time, but about the ridicule. In the rNWT this is made easier to see by adding another verse from the context of this one in Ezekiel 12. Now, the 2013 Revised NWT includes the following verse in the cross-references: (Ezekiel 12:22) 22 “Son of man, what is this proverb that you have in Israel that says, ‘The days go by, and every vision comes to nothing’? Now it makes sense, that Israel had seen so many prophets and visionaries declare things that didn't come true so often that it had become like the fable of "the boy who cried wolf." (Also, btw, I found this verse to be much more readily understandable in the new rNWT.) @ComfortMyPeople reminded me of this verse when he spoke about how we have plenty of precedent for handling error. We need not be discouraged overmuch, as if this is something that should never be expected to happen. Imagine being in a congregation where some of them were saying there was no resurrection! Another verse that has been added to the cross-references to the passage in 2 Peter 3:3 is the first verse in the passage below: (Jeremiah 17:15, 16) 15 Look! There are those saying to me: “Where is the word of Jehovah? Let it come, please!” 16 But as for me, I did not run away from following you as a shepherd, Nor did I long for the day of disaster. You well know everything my lips have spoken; It all took place before your face! It's interesting that 2 Peter is about "ridiculers" but this verse is about a person who does not want to be a ridiculer, but is anxiously looking for the promised prophecy to come true. I added the next verse because it provides another interesting point that the person is not going to leave Jehovah just because of a perceived delay, but also he is not longing for the day of disaster. Perhaps it refers to the right attitude toward God's judgments. One last point is that those who read both 2 Peter 3 and the parallels in the book of Jude might be surprised to see that both of these books together make a very consistent point that they were already in the "last days." It is both now and all the way back through to the first centuries that Christians would expect to hear persons ridicule them by saying "Where is this promised parousia?" and they would make the point that things are going on pretty much as they always were. In Jude it's also easy to see that he was speaking about the "last days" or "last time" having already started in Jude's day: (Jude 16-20) 16 These men are murmurers, complainers about their lot in life, following their own desires, and their mouths make grandiose boasts, while they are flattering others for their own benefit. 17 As for you, beloved ones, call to mind the sayings that have been previously spoken by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18 how they used to say to you: “In the last time there will be ridiculers, following their own desires for ungodly things.” 19 These are the ones who cause divisions, animalistic men, not having spirituality. 20 But you, beloved ones, build yourselves up on your most holy faith, and pray with holy spirit, Of course, if it were about our own day, and if the parousia was going to be a long period of time, such as 103-plus years, for example, then the real response would be: "Don't you know that things are NOT going on as they always were? Didn't you notice the big wars and earthquakes that started the parousia? Are you blind to the sign?" The "parousia" of course is a "visitation" and it came on Jerusalem 37 years after Jesus prophesied such a visitation. We can see that the visitation (parousia) wasn't the entire period of the generation with its great wars and great earthquakes in one place after another and pestilences and food shortages. It was the final visitation event when judgment was visited upon Jerusalem: (Matthew 23:35-38) . . .there may come upon you all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zech·a·riʹah son of Bar·a·chiʹah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. 37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38 Look! Your house is abandoned to you. It must have been especially important when speaking of the final visitation of judgment (parousia) to remind the ridiculers that there was a good reason that things were going on just as they had been since the days of their forefathers. It's because, if there was not going to be a sign in advance, that it (the visitation - parousia) would come quickly and suddenly and without warning as a thief. Just as in Noah's day, when the world was apart from the water, then suddenly in the midst of water: (2 Peter 3:5, 6) 5 For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with waters. Jesus was the one who had said that things WOULD go on just as they had been going on in the days of their forefathers. (Matthew 24:37-41) 37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken along and the other abandoned. 41 Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken along and the other abandoned. This is just like when Paul said that it would also be a time when they were calling out peace and security! (Wars would occur but they would not be a defining sign of his parousia.) The ridicule is not about claiming that the parousia wasn't really there, it was ridiculing the delay of the parousia, just as they were ridiculing the delay of the judgment visitation in Ezekiel 12. The only advance warning we have is the reminder that it will come as a thief and we should therefore watch what sort of persons we should be at all times: (2 Peter 3:11-18) 11 Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, 12 as you await and keep close in mind the presence [visitation] of the day of Jehovah,. . . 14 Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace. 15 Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation,. . . 17 You, therefore, beloved ones, having this advance knowledge, be on your guard so that you may not be led astray with them by the error of the lawless people and fall from your own steadfastness. 18 No, but go on growing in the undeserved kindness and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. . . .” ============ You must have put a great deal of time into this research. Very much appreciated. Though you make your points very well in this dissertation, I still believe, that the previous understanding can go alongside this without doing much harm because as you well pointed out: “the person is not going to leave Jehovah just because of a perceived delay, but also he is not longing for the day of disaster. Perhaps it refers to the right attitude toward God's judgments.” The discussion of 1914 date and the generation understanding both emanate from a perceived delay and wanting to find our more so we can be prepared. Our attitude towards God’s judgements is what is important as you stated above, if I understand you correctly. We continue to pray for God’s Kingdom to come but meanwhile work on ourselves. (Matt 6:9,10) As imperfect people, righteous ones are “scarcely” being saved, so we have to take care. Leave the judging to Jehovah, show a waiting attitude. Love your enemies,continue to do good to them, including warning them. Jehovah is the one who will take vengeance – he can read hearts. (1 Peter 4:18) 18 “And if the righteous man is being saved with difficulty, what will happen to the ungodly man and the sinner?” (2 Peter 3:8, 9) However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. 9 Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance. (2 Peter 3:15) Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him, These scriptures were addressed to the Christian congregation and show that we need to use the present time to become known by Jehovah. We must not think Jehovah is slow as his timetable does not necessarily concur with our lifespan. 2 Peter 3:8. Also the understanding of Ezekiel 9 that we are being marked for salvation by the Jesus who has been appointed to be the Judge the living and the dead, at a later time nearer to Armageddon, should impress upon us the need to have the right attitude towards others at all time. We are not here to judge anyone or mark anyone, only to inform them of Jehovah’s purposes, as he will not need the stones to cry out, but we will offer ourselves willingly. (Ps 110:3) So we are grateful for this understanding. Remember too how urgent it seems that Naboth and his sons need to have justice. But Jehovah will resurrect him in the new system. He has to wait. Also Abel, Zechariah and lots more whose blood cried out for justice. We need the right attitude and to wait on Jehovah, the Judge of all the earth. Some points to ponder in this article. *** w78 10/15 pp. 14-15 pars. 5-7 Bearing the Burden of Injustice *** 5 Asaph apparently was not alone in being adversely affected by what he witnessed. He goes on to say: “Therefore he brings his people back hither, and the waters of what is full are drained out for them. And they have said: ‘How has God come to know? And does there exist knowledge in the Most High?’” (Ps. 73:10, 11) When thinking about the way in which the wicked appear to get by with their lawlessness, the righteous find this very disturbing. They cannot put it out of their mind. Again and again they return to it. The effect on them is comparable to their having to drink a bitter potion. This moves them to ask: ‘How can God tolerate these things? Does he not see what is going on?’ 6 Comparing his own lot with the prosperous condition of the wicked, Asaph exclaimed: “Surely it is in vain that I have cleansed my heart and that I wash my hands in innocence itself. And I came to be plagued all day long, and my correction is every morning.” (Ps. 73:12-14) Thus the psalmist actually began to think that it was useless to lead an upright life. While the wicked were enjoying prosperity, he was plagued constantly. He felt that God was correcting or reproving him every morning. The wicked, however, appeared to be getting by with the grossest of wrongdoing. 7 Nevertheless, Asaph realized that it was wrong for him to give in to such thinking. He said: “Had I let myself talk on in this fashion, I should have betrayed the family of God. So I set myself to think this out but I found it too hard for me.” (Ps. 73:15, 16, The New English Bible) Yes, the psalmist recognized that his viewing service to God as vain would actually mean his being disloyal to the faithful ones. Then, too, his giving way to public expression of doubt could have undermined the faith of some. Though he tried to straighten out his thinking, Asaph simply could not reconcile how the wicked could get by with their wrongdoing, while righteous persons were suffering. In your well researched dissertation, I think you can go a little further to explain these. You usually have much resources. 1. If you care to, kindly explain this some more for me. I thought it referred to the fact that it didn’t rain, and that the water canopy was suspended above the earth. “Just as in Noah's day, when the world was apart from the water, then suddenly in the midst of water: “(2 Peter 3:5, 6) 5 For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with waters.” 2. I think you should explain this statement some more: “Now it makes sense, that Israel had seen so many prophets and visionaries declare things that didn't come true so often that it had become like the fable of "the boy who cried wolf." You might wish to explain that they died before the fulfillments took place, e.g. Nineveh destroyed after Jonah’s time. Not that they did not come true. The problem with Israel is that they did not have faith in Jehovah like their forefather Abraham

True. But some people misinterpret this to mean that you have abandoned the standards you had before, especially the older children. They think the younger ones get away with more than they did. They can't see that you have adjusted your methods of discipline due to more experience and discernemnt.

*** g79 5/8 pp. 27-28 Should Children Be Spanked? *** But does loving discipline include a parent’s use of spanking? According to God’s Word, it definitely can, when the spanking is an expression of and in a manner consistent with love. Consider these verses from the inspired book of Proverbs: “Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him.” (22:15) “Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death.” (23:13, 14) “He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.” (13:24)—New International Version. While such references to the “rod” could cover various forms of discipline from parents, physical chastisement is certainly included. Whether they do it with the hand, a wooden ruler or some other type of appropriate “rod,” parents are authorized by God to use spanking in lovingly disciplining their children. The Bible, however, helps parents to avoid going to excesses by offering strong counsel against giving way to violent anger. (Prov. 16:32; 25:28; Col. 3:8) If a parent, ignoring this counsel about controlling anger, fiercely hit a child in an outburst of fury, that would be contrary to what God’s Word says about discipline being an expression of love. The Bible in no way endorses angry whippings or severe beatings that bruise and can even cripple a young child. That is child abuse, not loving discipline. A wise parent recognizes that there are various ways to correct or punish a child. Sometimes just a firm word will do. In other cases a disobedient child may be briefly isolated. When a child spills or breaks something through childish carelessness or irresponsibility, often it is most effective to make the child clean it up or work to replace it, if feasible. Of course, flexibility is important, adapting the discipline to the situation and the child; what works with one may not work with another. Yet, even as the Bible shows, spanking does have value as an occasional form of discipline, especially for young children. As they go along, most children will, time and again, challenge their parents’ authority, testing to see if they “really mean business” and deserve respect. Even nice children may say, “You shut up!” or “No, I won’t do it!” One doctor explained that it is as if the child knows where ‘a line has been drawn on the ground’ and yet crosses it to see what the parent will do. Can the child get away with it? Who is in control? Particularly with very young children, such a challenge is not necessarily a time for an abundance of words. A spanking may be in order. No, not beating a child into submission, but a firm spanking sufficient to underscore who has authority. As any tears subside, the parent can lovingly take the child into his or her arms. With quiet words, or just a warm embrace, the parent can say: “I love you too much for you to grow up without recognizing authority and the need for respect.” These are also choice moments to offer guidance that will touch the heart. After one father read in Science News the previously quoted view about avoiding spanking, he wrote to the magazine: ‘When my children were outright disobedient, my wife and I pointed out the reason for the violated rule and the child acknowledged the need for the penalty. Once, after the agreed-on number of smart spanks had been delivered with the paddle, my son (about 6) crept into my lap, hugged and kissed me and said, “Daddy, I guess I’ve learned my lesson.”’ All around us we see the sad consequences of excessive and misplaced permissiveness. So we should be able to appreciate the truthfulness of the Bible’s statement that “he who loves [his child] is careful to discipline him.” (Prov. 13:24, NIV) It is truly loving for parents, in a child’s early years, to commence helping the youngster to recognize authority and to realize that there must be reasonable limits to freedom. The brief pain of firm but not harsh spankings when a young child needs such is certainly better than the grief that comes if, in teen-age or later years, he has not learned those lessons. It takes real effort for parents to spank wisely—to avoid letting misplaced affection cause them to refrain from spanking, and yet to control themselves so that they do not let spankings lead to brutality or child abuse. But the counsel from our Creator, and the good effects forthcoming, prove that this effort is worth while. As Today’s English Version renders Proverbs 23:13, 14: “Don’t hesitate to discipline a child. A good spanking won’t kill him. As a matter of fact, it may save his life.”

(Proverbs 23:13, 14) Do not hold back discipline from a boy. If you strike him with the rod, he will not die. 14 With the rod you should strike him, In order to save him from the Grave. (Deut 6:7) 7 and you must inculcate them in your sons and speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road and when you lie down and when you get up. Some persons might feel that discipline can be done any place. Everyone will not think or act alike in everything. We just had that in the Book study. One brother understood what he had to do to be at peace with Jehovah and follow his Son (2 Peter 3:15) whereas others - even those taking the lead - were wondering and pondering. Eventually they realized what neutrality was. My mother used to discipline my nieces when they were very small at the back of the Kingdom Hall. (It is a very common practice here in the Caribbean but it is beginning to die out here too.) They learned not to misbehave at the meetings - which they could not do at home. They are now both married in the truth and still love Jehovah. She never had to do it with us, she would just give us a "look". Then you have to get over the fact that even some Witnesses do not believe the scripture above in Proverbs 23:13.14 should be followed, although millions in and out of the truth testify that the discipline they got from their parents is responsible for their success in life. They prefer to do what the governments say. They think it is child abuse. They try to be more righteous than Jehovah.

That's nice of him. Thanks to both of you.

You would first have to find them and then determine if they had sinned. Why would they need to be baptized? Too farfetched.

I did not see the Paradise Lost to Paradise Restored book there. My parents studied that with me as well as Let God be True and Things in which it is Impossible for God to Lie. I came across a fairly new looking copy of the Let God be True a few years ago, an in-law left it in the house. I am treasuring it. I have books mostly from the late sixties and 70s, and bound volumes from the 60s, as there was a special reprinting in the 90s of the sixties bound volumes. I have stopped keeping bound volumes from last year and hope the Watchtower CD would be adequate.

I am inviting all those who are using straw and vegetation interchangeably to please look up the meaning. All animals can't eat straw but they do eat selected vegetation even if it is a moss in the sea. Right now humans are using vegetation but they also use meat from animals, birds and fish. In the beginning man was eating from fruit-bearing trees only (selected vegetation). I am just saying that it is possible that it can revert to that.

I suggest you too leave the room artfully.

Well, all the animals cannot be eaten at the same time, so instincts will help them to survive - finally to be eaten on another occasion if death doesn't precede. Humans were meant to live in peace also. But we also still need instinctive wisdom in order to walk the streets and return safely from the human jungle cities and neighborhoods. What is the scriptural authority for contradicting Genesis 1: 29,30? Jesus was a Master Worker with God and he saw and knew everything but he said "It is written". "That the interpretation that all animals were created as herbivorous is no longer held." BY whom?

A very good point here. God placed selected numbers in the Ark of every kind of animal living on dry ground. Clean animals in sevens, unclean animals in twos. If he expected them to eat one another he would not have put such low numbers and Noah would not have had to gather food for them for roughly a year. No problems with the animals were reported. Another good point here. God can control fertility. Already we have animals which are not very fertile, e.g. the panda. (The animals will not have everlasting life nor will pets be resurrected.) However, God has everything at his disposal to bring about his purpose.

To work with a horse, a great deal of training is required. Some of them might be trainable, but not necessarily as pets. But there has to be room for "a little boy will lead (train?) them" but they will be free to be themselves; absolutely no circuses. I still think they will eat vegetation though. Nothing is impossible for God. There is a reason God is not telling us everything.

Looking forward to your answer/thought, James.

*** it-2 p. 1069 Tattoo *** A permanent mark or design on the skin made by cutting the skin to produce scars or by inserting coloring matter under the skin. The Israelites were forbidden to engage in this practice, one that was common among some other ancient peoples. (Le 19:28) For example, there were times when the Egyptians tattooed the names or symbols of their deities on their breast or arms. By complying with Jehovah’s law not to disfigure their bodies, the Israelites would have stood out as different from other nations. (De 14:1, 2) The prohibition would also have impressed upon them a proper respect for the human body as God’s creation, to be used in honoring him.—Ps 100:3; 139:13-16; Ro 12:1.

(Romans 14:19-23) “19 So, then, let us pursue the things making for peace and the things that build one another up. 20 Stop tearing down the work of God just for the sake of food. True, all things are clean, but it is detrimental for a man to eat when it will cause stumbling. 21 It is best not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything over which your brother stumbles. 22 The faith that you have, keep it to yourself before God. Happy is the man who does not judge himself by what he approves. 23 But if he has doubts, he is already condemned if he eats, because he does not eat based on faith. Indeed, everything that is not based on faith is sin.” (1 Corinthians 6:12) 12 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are advantageous. All things are lawful for me, but I will not let myself be controlled by anything. Why do we wish a tattoo? It can cause stumbling. Do we wish to conform to the world? (Romans 12:1, 2) Therefore, I appeal to you by the compassions of God, brothers, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, a sacred service with your power of reason. 2 And stop being molded by this system of things, but be transformed by making your mind over, so that you may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Why has it become popular? Why did only certain persons of questionable repute wear tattoos decades ago? Is it something required? Or would it make people think twice about your judgement? Would you get the job wearing one? How do we know we or a significant other would like it years down the road? What does it say of the world of today? (Think about degradation and the slippery slope.) ==== What do we think of God’s creation? God’s art? Do we agree with God or the Psalmist? (Genesis 1:31) After that God saw everything he had made, and look! it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day. (Psalm 139:14) I praise you because in an awe-inspiring way I am wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful, I know this very well. Graffiti is usually cleaned off; true art stays and becomes more valuable. Why can’t we be thankful Jehovah told us something he does not like? Do we think Jehovah likes murder, adultery, incest, stealing, war, etc. because we are no longer under the Mosaic Law? He said he cleansed foods that were not permitted for Israel under the Law but he has not cleansed any of these things. Do we have to ask others or are we convinced? (Romans 14:22 22 The faith that you have, keep it to yourself before God. Happy is the man who does not judge himself by what he approves. Make your own decision based on your faith and what you know about the God YOU serve.

@Eoin Joyce Nice discussion. Had those two texts in mind when I was writing but decided to leave them out. It is just a discussion. We all have preferred viewpoints and the scriptures support some of them, but we will all learn in the future. Love this part of your comment: "This allows for a wide variety in the personal visions individuals may cherish on what conditions will prevail in the paradise earth to come, but in no way allows for an imposition of such views on others where there is no clear Scriptural basis. By the same token, the relatively harmless views of others should be respected, regardless of any perceived naivety on the part of those who feel their more educated perceptions deserve higher credence. " I did not commit to everything the author said but I do believe that animals as well as man can exist happily without having to kill and eat meat. Jehovah has limitless wisdom and there are other ways to keep down animal and insect population besides predation. Lots of things the Bible says are perceived as naïve, even the fact that the system will have an end. However, Jehovah's way will prevail when the time comes.

Jehovah did not puncture our earlobes (mine is not) nor did he give us tattoos. Thought you would have been telling us.

Just came across this on the Internet. What I wrote above are my own conclusions, but I wanted to see if anyone else had this view. Author who believes what the Bible says about God’s original purpose for animals and man with relation to diet. See link https://answersingenesis.org/animal-behavior/what-animals-eat/creations-original-diet-and-the-changes-at-the-fall/