Jump to content

Melinda Mills

Member
  • Content Count

    774
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    7

Reputation Activity

  1. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to ComfortMyPeople in This piece doesn’t belong to this machine!   
    Melinda, I fully agree with you when you say the worship of Jehovah never has been completely annihilated, nor will it be! So, when we read in the Bible about a dry-bones valley, or the dead of the two witness, or the weeds among the wheat, all these prophecies only describe periods of trouble for God’s people. Not their annihilation. And, of course, the final attack from Gog will not lead us to our end, at any moment, but Gog’s end.

    I believe we all can agree with the idea that, sometimes, Jehovah allow His servants suffer bad experiences, sometimes to refine them, sometimes to prove Satan is a liar. Cannot we?  Only two examples:

    ·        (Hebrews 5:8) “Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered.” Note, Jehovah was not angry with his son. By no means, but God allowed His son died.
    ·        (Luke 22:31) 31 “Simon, Simon, look! Satan has demanded to have all of you to sift you as wheat.” They weren’t rejected by God, but refined
    However, until now (better expressed, till 2015 October Meeting) we were very happy applying A LOT of prophecies (and “old-fashioned” types-antitypes) to the experiences of Bible Students in the 1914-1919 period. And, in spite I wouldn’t expound on this too much, I insist that, from 2015 we have A LOT of orphaned of these Bible thoughts. Or at least I think so.

    Anna pointed out above a very interesting matter regarding the killing of the two witnessing doesn’t represent Gods’ disapproval. Also, Anna quoted WT 2014/ 11/15 P. 30, where we read that these happenings had to be with the brothers who took the lead and not necessarily the brotherhood.

    Well, we have next (possibly) orphaned now.


    (Revelation 13:7) “It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them”
    Application until now: *** w12 6/15 p. 15 par. 6 Jehovah Reveals What “Must Shortly Take Place” ***

    The seventh head of the wild beast as much as killed the preaching work for a period of time. Jehovah foresaw this dramatic event and revealed it to John. God also told John that the secondary part of the seed would be revived to increased spiritual activity. (Rev. 11:3, 7-11) The history of Jehovah’s modern-day servants confirms that those events took place.
     
     


    (Daniel 7:25) “He will speak words against the Most High, and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand.”
    Application until now *** dp chap. 9 p. 143 par. 31 Who Will Rule the World? ***

    “Harassment of God’s anointed ones climaxed on June 21, 1918, when the president, J. F. Rutherford, and prominent members of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society were sentenced on false charges to long prison terms. Intending “to change times and law,” the “small” horn had effectively killed the organized preaching work.”


     
     
    (Zechariah 14:1, 2) “Look! The day is coming, a day belonging to Jehovah, when the spoil from you will be divided in your midst. 2 I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for the war; and the city will be captured and the houses plundered and the women raped. And half of the city will go into exile, but the remaining ones of the people will not be cut off from the city.”
    Application until now: *** w13 2/15 p. 18 par. 5 Stay in Jehovah’s Valley of Protection ***

    Zechariah foretold what action the nations would take, saying: “The city [Jerusalem] will actually be captured.” During World War I, prominent members within the earthly part of Jehovah’s organization were “captured,” or arrested, and sent off to a prison in Atlanta, Georgia, U.S.A. ‘The houses were pillaged’ in that injustices and brutality were heaped upon these and other innocent integrity keepers. The attackers plundered the wealth of influence that the remnant exercised by banning their literature and restricting their activities as Kingdom proclaimers.


    ·        There are more examples, but what we can, perhaps, deduct, is:

    ·        There are quite a few prophecies pointing a turbulent time for God’s people.
    ·        These prophecies, until now, we believe fit perfectly with our 1918 experiences.
    ·        As we now understand, and according the real facts that, our work was not kill in that period.
    ·        The Gog final war has nothing to do with these experiences
    I thought that more information had been provided in the last October Meeting, perhaps trying to harmonize these and other passages. Anyway, let’s wait until “the proper time.”

     

    Anna, I've posted bellow, answering to Mellinda some ideas I consider, perhaps, partly consider the same matter you wrote.
  2. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in This piece doesn’t belong to this machine!   
    Just wish to agree that the hardship that will come from the attack of Satan because of his envy of the spiritual paradise that Jehovah’s people have will not be discipline from Jehovah. Hardship will come though in the future, regard less.   The prophet Habakkuk prophesied about it:
     (Habakkuk 3:16-19) I heard and I trembled within; At the sound my lips quivered. Rottenness entered my bones; My legs beneath me were shaking. But I quietly wait for the day of distress, For it is coming upon the people who attack us. 17 Although the fig tree may not blossom, And there may be no fruit on the vines; Although the olive crop may fail, And the fields may produce no food; Although the flock may disappear from the pen, And there may be no cattle in the stalls; 18 Yet, as for me, I will exult in Jehovah; I will be joyful in the God of my salvation. 19 The Sovereign Lord Jehovah is my strength; He will make my feet like those of a deer And cause me to tread on high places.
     
    Although God’s people will have to witness terrible conditions and it will affect them, they will know that it is not directed at them. As the text above shows: “It is coming upon the people who attack us”. Jehovah will give them confidence  and joy and he will sustain them.  The tribulation will be cut short so flesh will be saved despite famine and deprivation.  (See also Ezekiel 38 and 39.)
     
    Another point that I believe will interest you is that true worship has never died out – it was subdued but it was always there. In Ahab and Jezebel’s time the prophet Elijah thought only he was serving Jehovah but Jehovah assured him that there were 7,000 who were faithful to him, though not prominent ones, and this could not be known by Elijah.  Similarly, in the dark ages, we cannot know all that who were faithful Christians then. But Jehovah knows them.
     
    (1 Kings 19   9-18)  There he entered a cave and spent the night; and look! Jehovah’s word came to him, telling him: “What are you doing here, E·liʹjah?” 10 To this he said: “I have been absolutely zealous for Jehovah the God of armies; for the people of Israel have forsaken your covenant, your altars they have torn down, and your prophets they have killed with the sword, and I am the only one left. Now they are seeking to take my life away.” 11 But He said: “Go out and stand on the mountain before Jehovah.” And look! Jehovah was passing by, and a great and strong wind was splitting mountains and breaking crags before Jehovah, but Jehovah was not in the wind. After the wind, there was an earthquake, but Jehovah was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake, there was a fire, but Jehovah was not in the fire. After the fire, there was a calm, low voice. 13 As soon as E·liʹjah heard it, he wrapped his face in his official garment and went out and stood at the entrance of the cave. Then a voice asked him: “What are you doing here, E·liʹjah?” 14 To this he said: “I have been absolutely zealous for Jehovah the God of armies; for the people of Israel have forsaken your covenant, your altars they have torn down, and your prophets they have killed with the sword, and I am the only one left. Now they are seeking to take my life away.” 15 Jehovah said to him: “Return, and go to the wilderness of Damascus. When you arrive, anoint Hazʹa·el as king over Syria. 16 And you should anoint Jeʹhu the grandson of Nimʹshi as king over Israel, and you should anoint E·liʹsha the son of Shaʹphat from Aʹbel-me·hoʹlah as prophet to take your place. 17 Anyone escaping from Hazʹa·el’s sword, Jeʹhu will put to death; and anyone escaping from Jeʹhu’s sword, E·liʹsha will put to death. 18 And I still have left 7,000 in Israel, all whose knees have not bent down to Baʹal and whose mouths have not kissed him.”
     
     
    At all the times that the people of Jehovah were disciplined there were faithful ones who continued to serve Jehovah, though in difficult conditions, e.g. Daniel and the three Hebrew officials.  They determined in their hearts that they would not pollute themselves with the food of Babylon. Daniel continued to prayer and mischief was framed against him for that .. He was later thrown into the lion’s den.  The three Hebrew officials did not succumb to idolatry and were thrown into the fiery furnace.  Daniel and the three Hebrew officials were true Witnesses of Jehovah.  Doubtless there were others who were not prominent who were also faithful to God and persisted in true worship. The true God Jehovah will have Witnesses at all points of history.  Even if it seems that the work is dead we know that Jehovah will have Witnesses because he is the true God.  Doubtless many pursued economic interests and did not bother with or were lukewarm in their worship but Jehovah had his Witnesses.  And a remnant also came out of Babylon who were zealous to restore Jehovah’s worship fully in an organized way.
     
    Jesus said the wheat and the weeds would grow together; the weeds would overwhelm the wheat but the wheat would persist, as Jesus said they would be separated in the time of the end.  So we must not think that after the apostles died there were no people who served and pleased Jehovah.  We know from history about the persecution of those who opposed the church teachings and were executed by the church and the state.  Many were banished like the translators who fled to other countries where they could continue their work. (We know even scientists were persecuted for disagreeing from the Catholic Church and we know they were vindicated.)   I am saying this to agree with the Watchtower today which showed that the wheat-like Christians existing in the ages since the death of the apostles tried their best to serve God though they could not be organized like today because of being underground.
     
    Excerpt from November 2016 Study edition, page 23: paragraph 9.  “Even so, a small number of anointed wheatlike Christians were doing their best to worship God, but their voices were being drowned out.”
     
     (Matthew 13:24, 25) He presented another illustration to them, saying: “The Kingdom of the heavens may be likened to a man who sowed fine seed in his field. 25 While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat and left.
    (Matthew 13:37-39) In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; 38 the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels.
     
     (Matthew 13:28-30) 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ 29 He said, ‘No, for fear that while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest season, I will tell the reapers: First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up; then gather the wheat into my storehouse.’
     
    These scriptures prove the existence of wheat-like Christians down through the ages.  They were stifled by the weeds but they were there nevertheless, giving Jehovah God worship in any way they could, firmly resolving in their hearts to stay true to the Master Christ.  It is not dissimilar to persons today enduring long periods of imprisonment and doing their best to remain faithful. We have many examples and that of well known Bro. Harold King.
     
    I invite others to comment.
  3. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to ComfortMyPeople in This piece doesn’t belong to this machine!   
    Perfect points Anna. Very valid ones. I would like to add some ideas, but, rather, I prefer to think whath you mention will be the correct one. In fact, I hope so!, I prefer so!
    The reason behind my commentaries about if some possible discipline from God was still future, is to remark the fact that, even in that case, all of us, me the first, will be close to God's people, no matter what happens.
     
  4. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Anna in This piece doesn’t belong to this machine!   
    I am not sure if this prophesy has been orphaned. Is it possible that it can still be applied to our new understanding?
    The exile to Babylon was because of a punishment from Jehovah because of the Jews rebellion and unfaithfulness. In the secondary application it was also a punishment from Jehovah because of the beginnings of unfaithfulness (apostasy) in 2nd Century C.E . The wild beast that kills the Witnesses in Revelation is not a punishment from Jehovah. On the contrary, it is an attack from Jehovah's opposer because the Witnesses were doing the right thing in Jehovah's eyes. So I don't think the explanation in  WT 2014/ 11/15 P. 30 is at odds with our refined understanding of the Babylonian exile and of the dry bones. It seems to refer to the short period of when the brothers were thrown into prison/symbolically killed between 1914 and 1919. I do not think it necessarily has a future application, although when the great tribulation comes the Witnesses will be attacked, but not killed, (even symbolically) because before that happens, Jehovah will step in. (Matt 24:22, Rev 7:14)
    "....the account refers to God’s anointed ones who took the lead during a difficult time of testing. So in the fulfillment of
    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , the anointed brothers who took the lead at the time of the establishment of God’s Kingdom in heaven in 1914 preached “in sackcloth” for three and a half years. At the end of their preaching in sackcloth, these anointed ones were symbolically killed when they were thrown into prison for a comparatively shorter period of time, a symbolic three and a half days. In the eyes of the enemies of God’s people, their work had been killed, causing those opponents much joy.—Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .
    However, true to the words of the prophecy, at the end of the three and a half days, the two witnesses were brought back to life. Not only were these anointed ones released from prison but those who remained faithful received a special appointment from God through their Lord, Jesus Christ. In 1919 they were among those who were appointed to serve as a “faithful and discreet slave” to care for the spiritual needs of God’s people during the last days.—Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ."
     
    P.S. For those who want a refresher about the refined understanding of captivity to Babylon:

    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  
  5. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Arauna in ‘Copyright used as pretext for censorship ’ – fmr MI5 agent on new Facebook’s policy:...   
    People are naive if they think the news we get is not controlled ... and the noose  is tightening.  While keeping the masses happy with their day to day posts on social media about mundane things our speech freedoms have been eroded. What we post on social media is becoming more and more  controlled.
    Soon our preaching work will also become an issue because there is no tolerance for the ugly truth about this system and its institutions any more. While government (USA) pretends to be a sheep it is a dragon. 
    There is a trend all over the globe to control certains aspects of the news we receive... the unpleasant truths are suppressed ... to keep us all in la-la land.  But the nasty realities will soon surface ... and then they will be suddenly upon us...
  6. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in Do you want to know the date of Armageddon?   
    "Did Abraham need date information to serve God with all his soul? No. Why? Because he simple loved God. And here I am, like all of you. Serving to Jehovah decades after our thoughts about when the end should come.  Because our main motivation is, simply, love."
    ==
    Agree that love for Jehovah is the key.  I we hope to enjoy life under the Kingdom we will have to see things Jehovah's way and show undying love for him and his way of doing things.   In the new system love is what will matter not time.
    Notice that the end was imminent two thousand years ago as well, and the Christians then worked diligently to preach and to have godly conduct because they loved Jehovah, his Son and they loved people.  They covered the then-known world with their preaching.  If we are enjoying our service we would not be clock watchers.  I think the answers are in this chapter of Second Peter. (2 Peter 3:7-18   and Hebrews chapter 11.)
    ." 7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people
    . 8 However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.
    9 Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.
    (Jehovah's actions are not limited by our short lifespans.  He is not slow - he will be on time. He wants us to help others and enjoy what we are doing to warn others.  We need to work on our own weaknesses as well.)
    10 But Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be exposed.
    (The end is necessary and is sure. As Jesus said at Matthew 24:36 - the day will not be disclosed - it will come as a thief - the Bible said the angels do not know either.)
    11 Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion,
    12 as you await and keep close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah, through which the heavens will be destroyed in flames and the elements will melt in the intense heat!
    13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.
    14 Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace.
    (First century Christians urgently worked on their weaknesses and pursued spiritual things zealously as though the end was coming the next day. We have to do the same - we who are 2,000 years nearer to it.)
    15 Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him,
    (They used to time for their own benefit - to have their deeds fully performed before God [Rev 3:2] instead of whining about time.)
    16 speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
    17 You, therefore, beloved ones, having this advance knowledge, be on your guard so that you may not be led astray with them by the error of the lawless people and fall from your own steadfastness.
    (As in the first century, some things would be hard to understand but we need not be daunted or be led astray.  Many of God's servants in the past did not fully understand all of his will  but they were loyal and Jehovah loved them and assured them of his approval - e.g. Job, Daniel. Jehovah told Satan there was no one like Job in all the earth; after his many tests, he was blessed with long life and restored offspring and riches, and was assured of the resurrection. [ Job1:8 ;14:4,15];  Daniel was told he was loved (desirable/precious) and assured that he would stand up (be resurrected) at the end of the days.  No date was given. [ Dan 9:23;12:13])
    18 No, but go on growing in the undeserved kindness and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
    (They served God with eternity in view.)
    Jehovah is all-wise and he knows what He is doing. No one can check his hand. Abraham did not die disgruntled - he died happy looking forward to a permanent place in earthly realms of God's Kingdom.  He had love and he had strong faith; he later was called the father of all having faith. The things hoped for will be realized but we will still need faith, it will not pass away as some think, as no one can see God and live - we have to have strong faith in His existence and in his purposes.
    (Hebrews 11:6). 6 Moreover, without faith it is impossible to please God well, for whoever approaches God must believe that he is and that he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him. 7......
    8 By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place he was to receive as an inheritance; he went out, although not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he lived as a foreigner in the land of the promise as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the very same promise. 10 For he was awaiting the city having real foundations, whose designer and builder is God. 11 By faith also Sarah received power to conceive offspring, even when she was past the age, since she considered Him faithful who made the promise. 12 For this reason, from one man who was as good as dead, there were born children, as many as the stars of heaven in number and as innumerable as the sands by the seaside. 13 In faith all of these died, although they did not receive the fulfillment of the promises; but they saw them from a distance and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land. 14 For those who speak in such a way make it evident that they are earnestly seeking a place of their own. 15 And yet, if they had kept remembering the place from which they had departed, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they are reaching out for a better place, that is, one belonging to heaven. Therefore, God is not ashamed of them, to be called on as their God, for he has prepared a city for them.
    Because Jehovah is a lover of justice, he has allowed time to work out his purposes and to answer issues related to Satan, although he has the power to do it all at once.  (The other day I was explaining to a gentleman why God has not yet destroyed Satan, as the man was adamant that God is not doing anything about Satan.  I gave him the illustration of a barber's shop: Barbers are not annoyed or perturbed by the amount of hair on the floor; it does not stop them from working, although it might be an eyesore. He simply sweeps when he is finished working.)  The injustices on the earth hurt God but his love for mankind stops him from shutting shop and sweeping up before the warning is given. He will break up (undo) the works of Satan and destroy him at a time that will benefit the most humans and will vindicate his name. 
    Let us continue to have love and faith and hope and acknowledge that love is the key. Agree with Comfort's conclusion.
     
  7. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Anna in Do you want to know the date of Armageddon?   
    This is why I really love the sentiments of this quote a father once said to his daughter (It was in one of the WT)
    "Plan ahead as if Armageddon won't come in your life time, but live your life as if it will come tomorrow"
  8. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to ComfortMyPeople in Do you want to know the date of Armageddon?   
    An unexpected visit

    Characters: Angel (A) You (Y) Narrator (N)

    N- Imagine that an angel visits you today. He wakes you up in the middle of the night and says:

    A- Jehovah granted me choose one of his servants to inform Armageddon’s date, and I’ve chosen to you.

    Y- Wonderful! What a privileged man I am! When will it be?

    A- January 1, 2025. Now, I’m going to give further information about this date of capital importance

    Y- Errr, excuse me angel, thanks for this marvelous information, but my alarm clock is set at 5 AM, and I wish to sleep. Tomorrow I will have a hard day and I need to feel awake.

    A- What a lack of appreciation! If only I had known!

    N- The angel, sorrowful and turning its back on you, is ready to depart.

    Y- Please angel, don’t feel bad. It remains 8 years. I have no savings to live without my secular work. Next month my wife has a surgery, and also I need to ponder the education of my children. You aren’t going to think I take my children off from the school all these 8 years!

     A- I think if you were more spiritual…

    Y- One moment, I’ve just applied for the pioneer next month, and with my collaboration my wife is going to start the regular next September. What’s wrong with me!

    A- And what’re your plans for next holidays? Now you know for sure the Date! Would not you rather dedicate it to preach?

    N- The angel a little bitter, you a little worried.

    Y- Well… perhaps you’re right… one moment!

    A- Yes

    Y- The brothers at Bethel, missionaries and traveling overseers, do you think they are, in general, spirituals?

    A- Of course!

    Y- And don’t have they fully conscience of the closeness of the end?

    A- Yes, I think so

    Y- And, don’t they enjoy of their holidays these years?

    A- Well, I believe this, yes.

    Y- Look. If you only had said to me this date is, let’s say, is in a few months, perhaps I could have made some arrangements. But believe me, dear angel, I love Jehovah and I’m trying make my most every day, without any date in consideration.

    N- And they both say goodbye with affection

     

    Abraham’s example

    Some emphasis added: (Genesis 12:1-4) “And Jehovah said to A′bram: “Go out from your land and away from your relatives and from the house of your father to the land that I will show you. 2 I will make you a great nation, and I will bless you, and I will make your name great, and you will become a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who calls down evil on you, and all the families of the ground will certainly be blessed by means of you.” 4 So A′bram went just as Jehovah had told him, and Lot went with him. A′bram was 75 years old when he left Ha′ran.”

    What would be your reaction if someone promises YOU all these things? Would it not be logical to expect the fulfillment of these words in your own life? Let’s continue with Abraham.

    Some emphasis added: (Genesis 13:14-18) “Jehovah said to A′bram, after Lot had separated from him: “Raise your eyes, please, and look from the place where you are, to the north and south, east and west, 15 because all the land that you see, I will give to you and your offspring as a lasting possession. 16 And I will make your offspring like the dust particles of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust particles of the earth, then your offspring could be counted. 17 Get up, travel through the length and breadth of the land, for to you I am going to give it.” 18 So A′bram continued to live in tents”

    Again, would it not be logical to suppose for Abraham to think he will receive these rewards during the span of his life?

    Now, some years after, about ten perhaps, these words happen.

    Again, emphasis added: (Genesis 15:13-16) “Then He said to A′bram: “Know for certain that your offspring will be foreigners in a land not theirs and that the people there will enslave them and afflict them for 400 years. 14 But I will judge the nation they will serve, and after that they will go out with many goods. 15 As for you, you will go to your forefathers in peace; you will be buried at a good old age. 16 But they will return here in the fourth generation…”

    “What? What does this mean? It was assumed that I was going to get your promises in my life, and now, you’re going to say me that I’m going to die, and my reward is postponed until a very distant future, for some remote descendants.” Perhaps no one between us find this hypothetic answer odd or rare, but did Abraham felt deceived? Well, the rest of his life, very known for all of us offers a clear answer.

    Conclusion

    Did Abraham need date information to serve God with all his soul? No. Why? Because he simple loved God. And here I am, like all of you. Serving to Jehovah decades after our thoughts about when the end should come.  Because our main motivation is, simply, love.

    What I’m trying to say with the little story about the angel visiting at night and the account about some passages regarding Abraham’s life is the danger of getting quickly excited with some developments, in the world or in God’s people. When I listen to some brother saying something like “look at the news today… China, Middle East, etc., the end is near” I always answer, yes, you’re right, but I also thought to myself “the same I believed when I was a child.” These recursive ideas bother me, because always lead to disappointment. I try to share the attitude of Abraham, attempting to serve Jehovah till the end of my days with all my soul.

     

  9. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to ComfortMyPeople in The spotlight effect and the extended applications   
    Because of these quotes I started to buy books from commentators and enjoy reading them. I remember with special affection, of those days, "New Testament Words” from W. Barclay. I think reading these publications did not hurt me. But I understand the possible effect on others: doctrinal disparity and divisions, in the style of The Watchtower says this, but according to this author could also be this other thing ...
    In relation to this, I think we can be both loyal and intelligent. Let me ask you. Can a JW be cultivated, erudite, disagree with the slave's focus at any given time, and still be loyal? (Note: I was not thinking of myself as scholar or intelligent, I hope no one think this way!)
    Regarding this question. Some time ago the media contact of our branch came to my city for a certain public event regarding Nazi’s period and our brothers. He gave this wise advice to a brother helping him related to that occasion. "When you are asked in the University about our beliefs, do not say ‘the Bible says this or that’, but rather, ‘we think that the Bible says this, we believe the Bible says this thing else’, otherwise we would appear dogmatic."
    And I have copied this example when I teach my students about subjects that, to myself, I am not sure they are one hundred percent this way. I take the opportunity to transmit them loyalty in spite the changes they inevitably will find. I hope I’m not putting part of the world to fire and sword.
    More or less this way: "After much investigation and prayer, the Witnesses came to understand this teaching. (I think teaching is better than ‘truth’, truth never changes). Perhaps over time God will continue to help us to understand it better and we may see it from another way.” Now, I continue: “of course, it is not a good idea to teach different things at the same time. The Bible says we must be united. God reveals things to his people gradually", and this kind of thing.
    Does this mean that I don’t need the slave class? Perhaps that I receive the teaching from our brothers with suspicion or skepticism? Certainly not! To the contrary! Please, let me explain a little bit more!
    I began to learn the truth when I was a teenager in 1971. Now, I’m about 60. What I’ve learnt all these years has been wonderful. It has changed my life and, the most important for me, has allowed me to approach God. At the beginning believed there were three states of be informed:
    1. The Bible writer, inspired and unerring. 2. You and me, error prone. 3. An intermediate state, the ‘slave class’, almost the first -inspired- class, because they are guided by God’s spirit and, we belong to a people guided by Him. Aren’t we? And we use to say ‘what God teach us’ with relation what these brothers prepare. Well, over time, as informed and thinking person, I began to think that it isn’t possible that God ‘transmits’ supposed ‘truths’ they proved to be, over time, not only wrong, but sometimes ridiculous (House of the Princes, 1925, ridiculous in the words of the brother Rutherford himself) or dangerous (1975).  At this point I know others leave the congregation. Others slow down.I began to think more, to meditate more, to study more and to pray more. It has been a process of many years, still underway.
    1. When on history of God’s servants they have had a perfect understanding about his will? Never. So, why to expect God’s people these days to have this kink on knowledge? 2. I sincerely believe that the ‘core’ teachings I believe are the same Russell and his relatives and friends had in the beginnings: The death situation, the Earth destiny, no existence of a hell of fire, trinity and others. For me, these are sufficient to proudly identify myself with the heirs of this group, and preach zealously with the congregation. I think ALL, or almost all religions believe in life after death, burning of earth, trinity and so. For me, this is demonstration of the blessing of God for these persons. My brothers. It is a world apart the field of PROPHECIES! A new post topic perhaps. 3. Jehovah’s way to transmit information to his people has been different according the eras. Face to face to Moses, speaking loudly to some prophets, inspiring to apostles… but, regarding the last days, I find that the mechanism would be absent from miracles. I’ve tried to explain this in other post http://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/28606-the-path-of-the-righteous-is-like-the-bright-morning-light/#comment-36721 4. I’m even ready if God deems it necessary to punish or even discipline we the JW. Yes, yes, yes… now we are living in a wonderful spiritual paradise only waiting for the prize (after the persecution) and no punishing at sight according our present point of view. But, what if this view, as many other PROPHETICS turn out to be wrong? Hasn’t be always the case God allowed these same situations to his people, his worshipers? I’m not saying this is going to happen, but what if this occur? Remember the very same thing was prophesized regarding the true worshipers in the last days, with no ‘type-antitype effect’, it’s only a matter of time: If it has happened or if it has to happen: (Revelation 11:7) “When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them.”
    (Daniel 11:35) “And some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work because of them and to do a cleansing and a whitening until the time of the end; because it is yet for the time appointed.”
    If this were the case, I’m ready to suffer the same fate that my brothers, waiting God’s forgiveness.
    One final thought. The reason I openly mention these ideas is because there is no niche inside the congregation to express them. And I find it logical and scriptural. But, on the other hand, I know THERE ARE a number of loyal brothers with these kind of thoughts, some of them a little confused, or disappointed, or wondering if they are in the true religion, or temped to go to places to get information handled for resentful persons, that hate us, skilled in mixing truths, half-truths or plain lies. Or imputing us false motives when we have been, simply, wrong. I prefere these brother find posts like mine, a thinking, active brother that in spite of his ideas loves not only God (easy) but also his people (sometimes a little bit harder.)
    And, if any of you is kind of share some thougts showing me a better way to think, no doubt I’ll consider with appreciation!
    [Disclaimer: I sincerely apology because reading my English must be a painful experience]
     
  10. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to JW Insider in The spotlight effect and the extended applications   
    I think it's "spot on."
    I also hope you continue to give further examples in your posts. I think this point is closely related to one of the absolutely most important recent changes to our teachings. I wanted to add some info from a historical perspective on this point. For better or for worse, I got involved in this same subject in 1978, and learned something interesting from the experience. (Interesting to me, at least.) 
    For me, the experience gives some additional perspective on why it took forty-two years to make the official change, from the time this 1972 article first presented this same important question about extended applications, sometimes called: "type-antitype" applications.
    The 1972 Watchtower you quoted was actually a summary of what Ray Franz had learned from the team that researched and put together the Watch Tower's first Bible encyclopedia: "Aid to Bible Understanding" (finished in 1971). The "Aid Book" research resulted in adjustments to the elder arrangement and the GB arrangement. It contains literally dozens of statements about how we can't be absolutely sure of the meaning or reason for certain Biblical references. But the biggest practical change for the Writing Department, was that this Bible dictionary/encyclopedia revolved almost completely around Biblical context. It was not a doctrinal reference.
    I thought this idea about the importance of Biblical context was almost a "radical" idea, because it changed the way that many of us would read and study the Bible. The article you quoted presented the first evidence that we could question the overly specific extended applications (types and antitypes) that we were so accustomed to. It subtly moved the "type-antitype" application from a specific prophetic drama about specific classes of Christians to lessons that taught all of us something about Jehovah's unchanging principles. Everyone on the "Aid Book" team believed that only a few few specific "types and antitypes" should be a part of our doctrinal teachings. (Only the ones that were specifically said to be "type-antitype" in the Bible itself.) But this would mean that literally hundreds of type-antitype applications would have to be dropped. It was too many doctrines to change all at once. Brother Fred Franz, who was the source or "keeper" of many of the type-antitype teachings, argued against dropping them. Brother Fred Rusk (Watchtower Editor) also supported keeping them. I don't know for sure, but I assume that most of the Governing Body at that time would have sided with Fred Franz on anything doctrinal, since he was still treated as "The Oracle" at this time.
    Therefore, the 1972 article was an important and controversial move, but ultimately ended up "compromising" or postponing a big change on this very important point. (The very next article was supposed to balance the idea you quoted with the idea that there are still "prophetic dramas" that have difficult and specific meanings that are too difficult to grasp from principles and context alone.)
    The suggested change was not finally made until October 2014 at the Annual Meeting by Brother Splane. This was forty-two years after it was first presented in 1972. The specifics of this change were credited to Bert Schroeder during the Annual Meeting in 2014. Brother Schroeder had died in 2007, though, and I have no idea what time period Brother Splane was referring to. But I do know that Brother Schroeder suggested this change not long after the death of Fred Franz. His reasons might be clearer with a little more context.
    The primary members of that "Aid Book" team continued to contribute work for the Writing Department from 1972 to 1980, and they were easily the most prolific writers of our Bible-based study material and convention releases. Many others in Writing worked from "news" material, spending a lot of their day reading about wars, earthquakes, food shortages, pestilences, and commenting on "pro" and "con" references to "Jehovah's Witnesses" found in outside publications. About 25% of the study material came from Fred Franz, mostly indirectly from those who based their "new" articles almost totally on prior articles from Franz had written. While I was there, about 75% of the study articles and all but a few of the convention releases came from the  "Aid Book" team.
    The four primary members of that team were dismissed from Bethel in mid-1980. One was disfellowshipped at the time, and another (R Franz) was disfellowshipped in 1981. A couple of them tried to keep a low profile in their congregations, or even continued to get research assignments for the Society for several more years, being given a bit of support through the "special pioneer" arrangement. (Ironically, some of those continuing assignments were related to replacing the Aid Book with the updated Insight Book.) But ultimately all of them, I'm told, finally found themselves outside of the organization even though all of them, as far as I knew, had wanted to quietly remain inside the organization for as long as they were allowed. One of them lasted at least a couple of decades in his congregation, serving as an elder and special pioneer for years, but I do not currently know his status. I haven't heard from him or about him in 10 years, but I heard a rumor that he was "pushed" out.
    While at Bethel, when I read through a large portion of the Aid Book for technical errors and typos, I was a bit troubled at first by the neutral, undogmatic style that sometimes said, "we don't know for sure." I mentioned this to someone on the "Aid Book" team, and said that I'm beginning to understand that the style was necessary as s a kind of public-facing, academic style. In 1978, I asked if it was troubling to anyone else. He said: "There are a lot of people here who would LOVE to hear that about the Aid Book." This really surprised me, because this was early in 1978 and it was a hint of trouble. He explained that the Aid Book was considered "dangerous" and had created a division between Fred Franz supporters in Writing, because it put a new value on context, and relatively less value on "extended applications."
    He said that the most common response (letters/comments) from those who had become familiar with the Aid Book's style were commenting on how much more value they were getting out of their Bible reading because they were realizing for the first time that the meaning from context was now more open to them. For example, they no longer read Ezekiel 18 as just the chapter that had a verse or two about the soul dying (18:4). There's another message in the context that is also very important, and they hadn't noticed it before. By 1975 there were many brothers who had been so overjoyed at this "new" way of reading the Bible that groups of Bethelites would join others in their rooms just for Bible reading. The Aid Book "style" was being credited. Because all of these Bible reading groups were "banned" in 1980, and even brothers on the Governing Body spoke out against them, it was assumed that these all had something to do with the apostasy. But there were dozens of them, and hundreds of Bethelites participated. It's true that most of the "apostates" had also participated, but the majority of participants remained in responsible positions.
    I regularly attended one in the room of a brother from Writing that often went on for three hours on Wednesday. Whenever I could, I also started attending another one after the Monday-night Watchtower study for one hour. One of these had one of the "Aid Book" team and I was questioned about it later in 1980, although I continued to do research for Brother Schroeder from 1977 until 1983. Schroeder kept a good measure of personal control over who was and was not dismissed for "apostasy" 1980 through 1983. Yet, even Brother Schroeder quietly sided with the "Aid Book" team on this same point about "type-antitype" during the 1980 crisis. My best friends in the Writing Department also included Brother Fred Rusk, who gave my wedding talk later in 1980. (I last saw and spoke to Rusk in 2013, at a funeral talk.) Rusk and Schroeder were both very strong opposers of the entire Aid Book team. But I kept friends on "both sides of the aisle."
    I don't know how easy it is to tell that the writer of the article below was asked to write in support of types and antitypes but was intentionally "subversive" or "ambiguous" in a way that would still get past the editors.
    *** w72 8/15 p. 501 God Readjusts the Thinking of His People ***
    JEHOVAH is infallible, and he is the Great Teacher and Leader of his people. (Ps. 143:10) They are fallible, and at no point do they understand all things. . . .
    Another thing that has given rise to questions is the use by Jehovah’s witnesses of parallels or prophetic types, applying these to circumstances and to groups or classes of people today. Many people who read the Bible view its accounts all as simply history, but when they begin to study with Jehovah’s witnesses a readjustment of viewpoint takes place as they see that there is more to the accounts than history.
    The question that is sometimes asked is, Did Jehovah stage that ‘dramatic’ event, so that we would have a warning now? Well, would he cause such bad things to happen? Would he maneuver them himself? No. The Christian disciple James answers: “With evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.” (Jas. 1:13). . . .
    We can therefore read what took place with ancient Israel and surrounding nations and know that they were just as real as our situation today and that God will act toward us according to the same principles, just as surely as he did back there. As we benefit from the record of God’s dealings with his people in the past, we experience a readjustment of viewpoint. But, of course, at times there may be points that we find difficult to grasp.
     
     
     
  11. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from JW Insider in The spotlight effect and the extended applications   
    Shows we have one spirit.  I was thinking the same thing recently that we pin the scriptures too much to one point or aspect of the scripture.   Jehovah’s word is  deep, wide, high and long at the same time, so it can tell us many things, so we can use it as a multi-purpose  tool to do and learn many things  (2 Tim 3:16,17).  Jehovah’s spirit helps us to understand even with language limitations. Jehovah’s Word also encourages us to perceive what the will of God is. (Ephesians 5:17) Everything will not be spelled out for us.
     
     [I find your (ComfortmyPeople) language ability is wonderful.]
    The apostle Paul acknowledged this long ago as we can see at Ephesians 3:17-19.
     
    (Ephesians 3:17-19) . . . May you be rooted and established on the foundation, 18 in order that with all the holy ones you may be thoroughly able to comprehend fully what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of the Christ, which surpasses knowledge, so that you may be filled with all the fullness that God gives.
     
    (Romans 11:33) O the depth of God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How unsearchable his judgments are and beyond tracing out his ways are!
     
    Jehovah is the originator of language and he has no problem helping us to understand or using his holy spirit to reveal things to us. He has used the faithful and discreet slave to feed us well over the years but the Bible is written to all of us personally as well. If Jehovah wishes to teach us personally something from a particular text who should limit that?
     
     (John 3:16) “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
     
     (Rev 22:7) 7 Look! I am coming quickly. Happy is anyone observing the words of the prophecy of this scroll.
     
    Anyone can benefit from and apply God’s Word.
     
    I have also noted that when I pay attention to a particular scripture, seeing something in it that I had never paid attention to before, often I find that it is highlighted also by the current CO when he comes.  I will have to start writing these things down so I can give a few examples in the future.  I often forget the details but the knowledge of the times it occurred remains with me.  I am sure JWInsider and Anna would have had similar experiences.
    Look how many years we thought that only the anointed had Jehovah’s spirit.  Jehovah gives his spirit to anyone who wants to find him and serve him. We know the instance of Cornelius and his family who got it even before Peter got there and before they wee baptized.
    Really enjoyed the post and the comments of Anna and JWI.
     
  12. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from Anna in The spotlight effect and the extended applications   
    Shows we have one spirit.  I was thinking the same thing recently that we pin the scriptures too much to one point or aspect of the scripture.   Jehovah’s word is  deep, wide, high and long at the same time, so it can tell us many things, so we can use it as a multi-purpose  tool to do and learn many things  (2 Tim 3:16,17).  Jehovah’s spirit helps us to understand even with language limitations. Jehovah’s Word also encourages us to perceive what the will of God is. (Ephesians 5:17) Everything will not be spelled out for us.
     
     [I find your (ComfortmyPeople) language ability is wonderful.]
    The apostle Paul acknowledged this long ago as we can see at Ephesians 3:17-19.
     
    (Ephesians 3:17-19) . . . May you be rooted and established on the foundation, 18 in order that with all the holy ones you may be thoroughly able to comprehend fully what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of the Christ, which surpasses knowledge, so that you may be filled with all the fullness that God gives.
     
    (Romans 11:33) O the depth of God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How unsearchable his judgments are and beyond tracing out his ways are!
     
    Jehovah is the originator of language and he has no problem helping us to understand or using his holy spirit to reveal things to us. He has used the faithful and discreet slave to feed us well over the years but the Bible is written to all of us personally as well. If Jehovah wishes to teach us personally something from a particular text who should limit that?
     
     (John 3:16) “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
     
     (Rev 22:7) 7 Look! I am coming quickly. Happy is anyone observing the words of the prophecy of this scroll.
     
    Anyone can benefit from and apply God’s Word.
     
    I have also noted that when I pay attention to a particular scripture, seeing something in it that I had never paid attention to before, often I find that it is highlighted also by the current CO when he comes.  I will have to start writing these things down so I can give a few examples in the future.  I often forget the details but the knowledge of the times it occurred remains with me.  I am sure JWInsider and Anna would have had similar experiences.
    Look how many years we thought that only the anointed had Jehovah’s spirit.  Jehovah gives his spirit to anyone who wants to find him and serve him. We know the instance of Cornelius and his family who got it even before Peter got there and before they wee baptized.
    Really enjoyed the post and the comments of Anna and JWI.
     
  13. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in The path of the righteous is like the bright morning light   
    Agree. The pictures make a good point. They enhance the meaning. His path in life is clearer with the light of God's word.   I understand you are saying this is the basic meaning of the passage.
    Paul admitted he had partial knowledge; and we should all admit that.  Wait on Jehovah.
  14. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to ComfortMyPeople in The spotlight effect and the extended applications   
    Thank you Melisa for your kind words. I fully agree with you, and I aslo enjoy reading Anna and JWI posts!
    I've also post a new "extended application" verse here. I'd also like your comments. Greetings, my sister!
  15. Upvote
    Melinda Mills got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in The spotlight effect and the extended applications   
    Shows we have one spirit.  I was thinking the same thing recently that we pin the scriptures too much to one point or aspect of the scripture.   Jehovah’s word is  deep, wide, high and long at the same time, so it can tell us many things, so we can use it as a multi-purpose  tool to do and learn many things  (2 Tim 3:16,17).  Jehovah’s spirit helps us to understand even with language limitations. Jehovah’s Word also encourages us to perceive what the will of God is. (Ephesians 5:17) Everything will not be spelled out for us.
     
     [I find your (ComfortmyPeople) language ability is wonderful.]
    The apostle Paul acknowledged this long ago as we can see at Ephesians 3:17-19.
     
    (Ephesians 3:17-19) . . . May you be rooted and established on the foundation, 18 in order that with all the holy ones you may be thoroughly able to comprehend fully what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of the Christ, which surpasses knowledge, so that you may be filled with all the fullness that God gives.
     
    (Romans 11:33) O the depth of God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How unsearchable his judgments are and beyond tracing out his ways are!
     
    Jehovah is the originator of language and he has no problem helping us to understand or using his holy spirit to reveal things to us. He has used the faithful and discreet slave to feed us well over the years but the Bible is written to all of us personally as well. If Jehovah wishes to teach us personally something from a particular text who should limit that?
     
     (John 3:16) “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
     
     (Rev 22:7) 7 Look! I am coming quickly. Happy is anyone observing the words of the prophecy of this scroll.
     
    Anyone can benefit from and apply God’s Word.
     
    I have also noted that when I pay attention to a particular scripture, seeing something in it that I had never paid attention to before, often I find that it is highlighted also by the current CO when he comes.  I will have to start writing these things down so I can give a few examples in the future.  I often forget the details but the knowledge of the times it occurred remains with me.  I am sure JWInsider and Anna would have had similar experiences.
    Look how many years we thought that only the anointed had Jehovah’s spirit.  Jehovah gives his spirit to anyone who wants to find him and serve him. We know the instance of Cornelius and his family who got it even before Peter got there and before they wee baptized.
    Really enjoyed the post and the comments of Anna and JWI.
     
  16. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Anna in The spotlight effect and the extended applications   
    You are right in many respects and this is why it is good to get into the habit of reading around a particular scripture, (the whole chapter usually) especially with scriptures which are "popular" and used over and over again and "usually" applied one way, or the way we are used to. In my opinion this is what it means to be a deep Bible student.
  17. Upvote
  18. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Janice G. in JW’s crossing dangerous bridges   
    Okay...so since I am not a balance beam person like gymnast's, I am pretty sure I would not be able to go to any of these countries.  I would not be able to balance on any of these bridges!  I do appreciate the brothers and sisters that can go and serve in these areas or live in these areas and I know Jehovah is looking out for them.  I, however know my limitations and will not put Jehovah to the test!!!
  19. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to John Lindsay Barltrop in JW’s crossing dangerous bridges   
    I wonder if there is anything in the water just waiting for a meal, or its a case of.........may Jehovah be with you......I am sure that he would be............as far as I know (which may not be much), the main thing to watch out for in rivers is poisonous snakes.
  20. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to John Lindsay Barltrop in JW’s crossing dangerous bridges   
    Methinks..........a very stable bridge........NOT.
    I feel that if one could not swim, it would be advisable to wear a lifejacket!!!!
  21. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Anna in Fate/Destiny   
    It could be, if you believe there is no basis for a positive future.
  22. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Anna in what does it mean with the April 2017 study edition of the wt? Are all who were/are baptized still bound to this vow?   
    The article is looking at it from different angle to what you assume. What it is saying is that a person cannot go back on their baptism using it as an excuse that they didn't know what they were doing, therefor their baptism didn't count. There must have been cases where a baptized Witness has claimed their baptism wasn't valid in order to avoid being disfellowshipped. So what the article is saying, that if you have once made a dedication and got baptized  and now have "tired of serving Jehovah or of living a Christian way of life" and want to go and fornicate etc. you will be disfellowshipped. What it boils down to is that someone who is known in the community as being one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and is also known to be fornicating, can no longer be called one of Jehovah's Witnesses, they are held accountable not only before Jehovah but before the congregation also. However, there exist situations where a Witness has faded and stopped associating with the congregation, and is no longer known as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in the community. Neither the elder nor members of the congregation go around policing those who no longer associate and so it is very unlikely that it will discover that this person is now living an immoral life and is celebrating all the holidays. In such a situation, they will no longer be held accountable before the congregation, but of course they will remain accountable to Jehovah (Romans 13:10 -12) Living an immoral life etc. does not undo what has already been done i.e. dedication and baptism. 
    As for child baptism, Eoin has addressed that.
  23. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Outta Here in what does it mean with the April 2017 study edition of the wt? Are all who were/are baptized still bound to this vow?   
    To encourage Christians to appreciate the need to pay what they vow. This includes more than dedication. At a age when disloyalty characterises human society (2Tim.3:2), this would seem to be "food at the proper time".
    ????? Actually, the article says "There is no way to undo a dedication vow, taking back what we promised God". Ecc.5:4-6. And to my understanding, as the dedication vow is between Jehovah and the individual making the dedication, well, that's where the dedication issue remains. 
    Now, if a person wants to use "invalid dedication" as an excuse for engaging in a sinful course of life, bringing reproach on both Jehovah and the Christian congregation, that's a whole different ball game. Their course will need handling as a judicial matter and a decision made accordingly. That could include a determination on the validity of their dedication as noted in the Watchtower you refer to.
    If a person wants to use that same excuse as a justification for no longer engaging in preaching and disciple-making or attending Christian meetings, well, attempts would be made (as previously posted) in harmony with Gal.6:1.
    Humans are free to take whatever action they choose to take with regard to Jehovah's requirements. They have to also accept the consequences of the actions that they take.
  24. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Anna in what does it mean with the April 2017 study edition of the wt? Are all who were/are baptized still bound to this vow?   
    No one should get baptized and be ignorant of what they are doing, what with the 100 or so questions, and the elders going through the questions making sure the person has a clear understanding of what they are committing to.
    I suppose if someone wanted to go back on their dedication, and no longer wanting to be identified as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, it wouldn't be because of ignorance, but rather because the person changed their mind and no longer believes what they believed when they got baptized....even if they were a child.
  25. Upvote
    Melinda Mills reacted to Outta Here in what does it mean with the April 2017 study edition of the wt? Are all who were/are baptized still bound to this vow?   
    This is the key to discussion on this kind of a topic. Jehovah is the one through His son Christ Jesus, who will decide on a person's capability of making a dedication, the validity of that dedication and, whether they are living up to that dedication. Pro.16:2; Pro.21:2. And this should inspire confidence as we can be certain that Jehovah, “the Judge of all the earth,” will always do what is right, “for all his ways are justice.”—Gen. 18:25; Deut. 32:4.
    If an individual "changes their mind" about dedication, then that is a matter between themselves and Jehovah. No one would really know this had occurred unless the person actually told others. They might exhibit a spiritual problem in their behaviour without engaging in a serious practice of sin. Christian elders obviously have a duty to assist a person spiritually if they become aware that an individual has decided to follow the disastrous course of reneging on their dedication. Gal.6:1. But in itself, it is a matter between the individual and Jehovah. If that person becomes involved in serious sin. elders have to take action and have additional responsibilties in keeping the congregation clean in this regard, (1Cor.5:12-13) . An unrepentant practicer of serious sin must be disfellowshipped. 
    However, none of this would undicate necessarily that they had "changed their mind" about dedication, or sought to "undedicated" themselves, only that they had failed to live up to the terms of that dedication. And Jehovah has provide a means through Christ's ransom for those who sin, even though dedicated, to repent and return to Him. Surely that is the thought at Gal.3:13. 
    As for an age limit on baptism, this has had lengthy discussion elsewhere on the forum, for example: 
     

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.