Shiwiii

Here is what the Watchtower said about Greber’s translation when they lied about not knowing of his occult practices.
 
“This translation was used occasionally in support of renderings… as given in the New World Translation” (The Watchtower 1983 April 1 p. 31 Questions From Readers).
 
Whoever says that the Watchtower didn’t use Greber’s translation for support is completely wrong? <><
 

I'm sorry but I just cannot accept this part of your post in all honesty. In an essence you're saying "just go along and be a good person, nevermind if the foundation of your beliefs are all outta whack, it'll work itself out." 
The doctrines of a belief is the foundations of that said belief. You even eluded to this in a different post. 

"And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ"  Eph 4:11,12
If the anointed accepts and understand the spiritual role of each bodily member, the gifts are shared. The whole body is enhanced at “teaching”, “healing”, comforting, etc,  all under the same Head, Christ.  One who comforts can be equipped to teach, etc. 
“A manifestation of the Spirit is given to each person for the common good” 1 Cor 12:7
So, as James says, not all should  assume the role of primary teacher, as what is taught could be destructive to the entire anointed Body. 1 Cor 12:29,4,11; 12:17,18  This is how it is with the GB and their “teaching” – a “world of unrighteousness”, defiling the entire anointed body.  Also, any other “gift” of the anointed ones who must obey them, may as well be nonexistent.   1 Cor 1:10-13;25,28-30; Col 2:19
 

Funny you should say that, since every “slave” of Christ should be teaching the people, not just a select few.  They “teach” through the avenue of the gift given them within the Body.   I guess it’s in the “blood”. Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; John 6:53; 5:1,2,4,5,16; John 13:20  

It is not irrelevant. Based upon your statements, you are claiming that Gerber was in harmony with what the wt already assumed. I want to see the proof. If there is no proof, then the wt used Gerber to support what they might have been thinking, but the support is from the occult/spiritism. The teaching is not in harmony with what was actually written in John's gospel. It is only a play of tricks on wording that the wt inserted their influence onto the gospel. Your dismissal of those facts is a part of the actual problem, people seems to think that because the wt says its true, but the fact of the matter is that they use Gerber to insert their doctri
 
you can think so, but I've already given you scripture that shows that satan misleads by use of quoting scripture correctly, but uses it out of context. JUST LIKE THE WT.  

Can you provide proof that the wt had this teaching prior to Gerber, and merely used him as support? I seem to think that the NWT wasn't even in existence until the 40's/50's? Prior to then the wt used the KJV and the KJV does not have the same teachings as Gerber.
Just because you say it doesn't, doesn't make it so. The real evidence is the Bible itself: 
Genesis 3:1, John 8:44, Matt 4:5-7
Satan may quote scripture correctly, but uses it out of context. Just as we see with Eve and Jesus. He quoted perfectly, but changed the meaning to trick. So it does matter the source, because there are motives behind the source which do not align with the Word of God. 
 

YES IT DOES, because Satan quoted out of context just as the wt does. 

Gone fishing
 
The fact that the Watchtower lied about not knowing of Greber’s occultism should worry you…what other lies are they telling you…?
 
I showed you your contradiction. You called what I said about the Watchtower agreeing with demon inspired teachings a “false accusation”, but then you go on to support that they did agree with Greber.
 
Look, if you want I can show how the Watchtower teachings, which are in line with demon teachings, are false. Let me know and we can look at them closely.
 
Sure the Devil can quote Scripture, I never said he can’t, but he distorts what he quotes and falsely applies it, read it for yourself.<><   

Yes, and even if they distance themselves from it now, it is still the basis of the nwt.

I will repeat again, in its twisted way, the Watchtower reveals the true timing of the thousand year reign of Christ, that it ends before Armageddon; but you have to desire to see it. 
God’s Kingdom Rules!
“God’s Kingdom Removes Its Enemies” pg 222-230
Subheading:  “The Grand Finale of the Great Tribulation”
Although it is full of biblical error, it is telling JWs that Gog and Magog attack God’s anointed ones BEFORE God’s Kingdom arrives. 
“An all-out attack. Gog of Magog will attack the remaining anointed ones and their other sheep companions. (Read Ezekiel 38:2, 11.) This attack against established Kingdom rule will be Satan’s last battle in a war that he has been waging against the anointed remnant since his expulsion from heaven.” 
Remember, it is saying that it is Satan's last battle, BUT of this event, it ends by saying:
“Then, after Jesus has conquered and removed all human enemies of God’s Kingdom, he will hurl Satan and his demons into the abyss. There they will be kept in a deathlike, inactive state for a thousand years.—Read Revelation 6:2; 20:1-3.
So...apparently it isn't Satan's last battle, because there is another battle to come.  
The article sites Rev 20:1-3:
“Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven holding the key to the abyss and a great chain in his hand.  He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.  He threw him into the abyss, closed it, and put a seal on it so that he would no longer deceive the nations until the thousand years were completed. After that, he must be released for a short time. 
DOES CHRIST HURL GOG AND MAGOG INTO THE ABYSS FOR A THOUSAND YEARS? NO. 
NOTICE WHAT THE ORGANIZATION HAS HIDDEN FROM YOU! 
READ FURTHER IN Rev 20: 
 “When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the sea.  They came up across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the encampment of the saints, the beloved city. Then fire came down from heaven and consumed them.  The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”  Rev 20:7,8
The attack of Gog and Magog happens after the thousand year reign of Christ. IT IS SATAN'S LAST BATTLE, AND IT OCCURS DURING ARMAGEDDON AS GOD'S KINGDOM RULES BOOK STATES.
So, who is the target of Satan’s deception?
 Every JW in the organization, where God’s anointed ones are “gathered” during Armageddon– which is happening now; and who believe a thousand years of peace is still to come!
Rev 16:13-16 – “Then I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming from the dragon’s mouth, from the beast’s mouth, (organization) and from the mouth of the false prophet. (GB)
 For they are demonic spirits performing signs, who travel to the kings (anointed ones) of the whole world to assemble them for the battle on the great day of God, the Almighty. 
 “Look, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who is alert and remains clothed so that he may not go around naked and people see his shame.” 
So they assembled the kings at the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.”
The valley of decision, where anointed one and brethren love either truth or lies/deceit/deception.  Joel 3:14; 2 Thess 2:9-12
Your leaders will tell you that the faithful Kingdom heirs must be in heaven before this battle ensues.  Not true.  The remnant can be sealed while on earth, IF they have love for pure truth, and reject deceit.  Eph 1:13; Heb 12:22; Rev 5:9,10
“But Isaiah cries out concerning Israel,
Though the number of Israelites
is like the sand of the sea,
only the remnant will be saved;
 since the Lord will execute his sentence
completely and decisively on the earth.”  Rom 9:27,28
2 Thess 2:11: “For this reason God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe the lie”
“Delusion” - πλάνη plánē, plan'-ay; feminine of G4108 (as abstractly); objectively, fraudulence; subjectively, a straying from orthodoxy or piety:—deceit, to deceive, delusion, error.
G4108 - πλάνος plános, plan'-os; of uncertain affinity; roving (as a tramp), i.e. (by implication) an impostor or misleader; --deceiver, seducing.
The Governing Body/harlot/ and her Beast/organization have allowed JWs to be deceived about what is presently happening in the spirit realm, they do this by twisting the scriptures to their liking.  Rev 22:18
How does Satan deceive?  With lies and delusions.  Would God allow another “delusion” to take place in his righteous Kingdom after a thousand years? People would sin again, taken in by deceit which is Satan’s common ploy.  How demeaning to both Christ and the Father it is to teach this, when we consider Christ’s sacrifice for the atonement of our sins, once and for all.
 “He takes away the first that He may establish the second.  By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”  Heb 10:10
 “Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.  Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?  For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”  Heb 10:28-31 
Such bold letters, do they make any impact on any of you?  Why are lies tolerated?  Why do you want to be deceived?  Why do you love the lie?  2 Thess 2:11,12; Jer 5:30,31
 
 

Wt 15/7/15 pp. 1,2 - “Jehovah’s people enjoy a special environment of peace in the earthly part of his organization.”
Wt -5/2/15 pp. 17-2 – “Our spiritual heritage can also infuse in us a deep sense of spiritual security that can be enjoyed only within Jehovah’s organization.” 

No, as a Christian I have an obligation to warn everyone when they are being misled. Even if it means losing my friends, their blood isn't on my hands,  I warned them all as much as I could. 
Paul said the same regarding a group of people he was preaching to. 

We both know of the changes in doctrine that the wt has made through out the years, so we don't need to rehash those but rather reflect on the attitude and demand for conformity at those times. Here is where I see this as a problem, and maybe other's will not, the requirement to obey the gb or whomever was in charge at the time of said changes in doctrine. what comes to mind here is the exact scripture that bruceq quoted:
So you have admitted that the wt has changed doctrine, but you do not judge them or see them as been judged, but here in 1 Tim we see that the word of God has spoken about such matters in the context of what we are talking about. What I do not grasp is how anyone can align themselves to a group or group of men who's foundation is based upon incorrect teachings of doctrine. Its like saying that the Baha’i faith, if they are good people then the foundation of their beliefs will come around. Is Mormons are just good people, then after a while their doctrines will just fall into place? Catholics too? See my point.
 
 
I agree to an extent here, yes these are qualities in which God has instructed us to be. It should be second nature within our character as we serve Him through serving others. 
 
yes, I agree.
 

Agreed
Utter rubbish, I see no mention of abstaining from Christmas, Easter, Birthdays Etc. in any of the scriptures you mentioned.....nor any other scriptures. It is only in the wt publications is that mentioned. This is in direct opposition to Colossians 2:16 as I stated above. 
 
true
Unsubstantiated claim to align yourself with what you think is the "truth", since none of that can be found in scripture.
You are correct here, it is only by faith that we have salvation (1 Thes 5:9, 2 Tim 3:15). Not any org, not a group of men, nothing but Faith. 
What scriptures support this statement? I mean, what scripture was not available when the cross, Christmas and 1925 were all practiced by jw's? Can you provide these scriptures that changed the views of the gb? By the way, I'd prefer NO organization,
 
. You can't be serious.....here are just a few:
1967 "We cannot claim to love God, yet deny his word and channel of communication." (Watchtower, October 1, 1967, p. 591)
1973 "Consider too, the fact that Jehovah's organization alone in all the earth is directed by God's holy spirit or active force." (Watchtower, July 1, 1973, page 402)
1976 "We must take seriously what his Word says and what his organization reveals to us.... Would not a failure to respond to direction from God through his organization really indicate a rejection of divine rulership?" (Watchtower, February 15, 1976, p. 214)
1984 "Faith in Jehovah, faith in those whom he is using as spokesmen, yes, faith in his organization! As we 'go out' to Jehovah's service today, how important it is that we exercise such faith!" (Watchtower July 1, 1984 p17)
1981 "Prophecies open up to us as Jehovah's holy spirit sheds light upon them, and as they are fulfilled in world events or in the experiences of God's people." (Watchtower, December 1, 1981 p. 17)
 
Really???? Explain it to us then using scriptrue
 
Paul did not need to gain approval from anyone but God, which he already had by means of his faith. In fact, I believe it was Paul who called those at the council in Jerusalem  "false brethren" Gal 2:6. Why did he call them this? Because they were imposing additional teachings upon Christians! I think, but I might be wrong,  those additional teachings might have been no blood...or no birthdays...or there is no hell....following a group of men....etc. Doesn't really matter the fullness of the additional teachings, what matters is that adding the "law" (whatever "law") is wrong and against God's ways...
by the way, the part about birthdays and blood and hell was only for reference, it was about additional "laws" kinda like the :laws" the gb/wt puts upon its members. 
 
 
I also noticed how quickly you ignored my reply above about reading the Bible alone. 

Ahem you two......he closed the door of heaven in their faces:
 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in."  Matthew 23:13
And the way he did it was not to even address it to THEM.  No, he had invented a class of earthly hopers a few years before whom he called the Jonadabs and at the convention he had them stand up and then pointing them he pronounced that THEY were the great crowd.
Is it any wonder everyone was speechless?!  He had just ripped a heavenly hope away from a great crowd who had remained seated when he asked those with an earthly hope to stand up.

He proved that the pen is mightier than the sword by writing the great crowd out of heaven and shutting the door in their faces without even a struggle or a whimper.  I've read there was just a hushed silence.  Even Michael didn't have it that easy throwing the devil out of heaven.....and he needed help to do it.  Rutherford threw the great crowd out single-handed.

Very nice post TTH.
It really is sad when this becomes a media plug and headline story either for or against someone instead of an encouragement for people to act this way everyday.  I'm sure Mattress Mack would be happy with a simple thank you instead of a parade in his honor. We should all encourage each other to act accordingly, as decent human beings, do what is right and not what is easy. 

Very nice post TTH.
It really is sad when this becomes a media plug and headline story either for or against someone instead of an encouragement for people to act this way everyday.  I'm sure Mattress Mack would be happy with a simple thank you instead of a parade in his honor. We should all encourage each other to act accordingly, as decent human beings, do what is right and not what is easy. 

Yes @JW Insider please refrain from spreading your light in public.
Keep it hidden from us simple folks like @TiagoBelager and me.....
Let our clergy class in New York do all the bible research for us..... preferably only speaking in Latin from a pulpit.
Please stop preaching about your truths.....
I personally am heading over to a non-latin bible burning now so I'll check in later.

A better example is not necessary ... you have confused two different issues.
Anybody can report a missing person .... even "Bro. Bobby", who in this example SAW me kill "Bro. Jack".
But if he talks to the Elders first .. he most likely won't go to the Police ... they will talk him out of it so as to not "sully Jehovah's name".
Keep it hidden, keep it quiet ... that is why as of this date March, 18, 2017 ... the website JW.Org's World News has mentioned nothing, Nothing, NOTHING, NOTHING!, about the Australian Royal commissions investigations  ... NEWS .... Real news.
Zero, zip, nada, goose eggs ....
Bro. Bobby is completely free to call the Police and have THEM investigate ANY crime, but because of the Pharisaic APPLICATION of rules that existed thousands of years ago, in a completely different structured civilization and culture, where trials were held in the city gates for all those inside the city and outside the city to be able to see with their own eyes how Justice was administered... we have institutionalized craven cowardice in the REAL application of Justice.
Justice has become a billion words ... but has also BECOME an extreme rarity in real life, because doing what is RIGHT is never, ever considered .... only what one is FORCED to do. (...PLEASE make us do what is right - GB Geoffery Jackson ....).
This is not new.
The Bible records three three Elders that counseled Job in his misery for three days ... but had NOTHING worth recording to say.
Words, word, and more words ... and Justice is aborted.
A child molester in the Congregation today with only ONE witness is, and denies it, can retain his congregational standing ... and because the accusations cannot be acted upon, he or she cannot be reported to the police ... by the Elders.
The instructions are to "Leave it in Jehovah's hands ...".
This is a CRIMINAL activity ... but in 50 years in over 5,000 cases involving 1,006 alleged perpetrators ... in one country alone, at the "bottom of the world",  the solution was to keep the details hidden in envelopes  in congregational and branch files, and mail copies in special blue envelopes to Bethel in New York.
Like Nixon's Watergate ... the cover-up is what became global news.
In the old Soviet Union, the major newspaper was named "PRAVDA" which means "TRUTH".
All news extolled the wisdom and competence of the Communist leadership, and allegiance and respect for  the good job they were doing.
Then their administration collapsed of it's own arrogance, and incompetence.

Sect accused of hypocrisy over association with organisation it has demonised.

Stephen Bates, religious affairs correspondent
Oct 8, 2001 The Guardian

"The United Nations is being asked to investigate why it has granted associate status to the Jehovah's Witnesses, the fundamentalist US-based Christian sect, which regards it as the scarlet beast predicted in the Book of Revelation. Disaffected members of the 6m-strong group, which has 130,000 followers in the UK, have accused the Witnesses' elderly governing body of hypocrisy in secretly accepting links with an organisation that they continue to denounce in apocalyptic terms. The UN itself admitted yesterday that it was surprised that the sect, whose formal name is the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, had been accepted on its list of non-governmental organisations for the last 10 years."

guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,565199,00.html

Click Here for the chain of email correspondence between the Watchtower and Bates following the Guardian article.

You reference Matt 6:9,10 and I don't see YHWH.  You still don't have a scripture where he says YHWH directly.  If it was so important to Jesus to use that name, wouldn't he have at least one direct quote of YHWH?
He didn't deny being equal to God.
No where are Angels referred to as God.
The bible seems to indicate 3 distinct persons in one as opposed to modalism.  Being able to exist together at the same time.
"Then Yahweh [on earth in human form] rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh [in spirit form in heaven] out of heaven. Genesis 19:24. In this text Abraham is visited by three individuals, one being Yahweh and the other two angels. Here we have God on the earth (Jesus) and God in heaven (father) sending down fire from heaven. This incident when Abraham met with Yahweh God, is what Jesus referred to when he said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." (John 8:56) The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that Jesus visited Abraham in Genesis 18 and 19.
Isaiah saw the glory of Yahweh, but John says that Isaiah really saw the glory of Christ. This proves Jesus is Yahweh. Combine this with the fact the Yahweh said, "Who will go for US" is a plural pronoun indicating more than one person in the Godhead.
Isaiah 6:1,8-9
John 12:41 " Isaiah was referring to Jesus when he said this, because he saw the future and spoke of the Messiah’s glory."
 
 

@bruceq Yes I know but I feel this is a loving warning to present factual information regarding the information this Governing Body is presenting to you.  This is not a debate about words but merely showing you the deception that is taking place.  I only hope that you put your complete trust in God and not a group of men.  Especially when they say they things like this:
At that time, the lifesaving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. (w13 11/15 p.20)
Have any of theirdates been correct!

My question is about who the wt says Gog and Magog is in Ezekiel and what the historical beliefs of the society were and what the thought is today. A brief account of what the wt thought and around what time they thought it:
Russia - June 1880
A Demon prince - 1932
Satan's Field Marshall - 1934
A spiritual ruler but not a demon prince - 1953
Satan - 1954
A Coalition of nations - 2015
Why, if God was/is leading this organization, did it take until 2015 for the wt to arrive at the same position that the rest of Christianity has believed for years?
Why would God allow the org to be in the dark, so to speak, about this for so long?
Why did God reveal this to the rest of Christianity first?
Did the wt provide spiritual food at the proper time and what was the food in the 1940's? Was it accurate knowledge?

I would like to point out that we had a young unbaptised teen, who no longer wanted to attend meetings. This was considered the same as disassociation, and he was to be treated as the same as a disfellowshipped person. However, this hurtful behaviour, was not an official statement from the platform, it was more a private "marking" from several families whose parents told the solo mum she was wrong for allowing him to no longer attend the meetings, that she should be "making" him come to meetings if he lives with her. Her response was that if she was in the best position to know her son best, that if she tried to "force" her son to attend meetings the effect would be much worse. Having seen parents do this time and time again, only for the young person to become absolutely opposed to the organisation has been enough evidence to affirm that allowing someone to choose to leave [to exercise their free will] along with the statement that you still care about them and that your door will always be open, is the better and most loving course... 
But on topic, if one has also been abused, and chooses to stay away from the meetings on this basis, and if the only thing the congregation focuses on are the "rules" then they have missed the point of "I want mercy, not sacrifice".