AllenSmith

And your point is ?
Please don't just slap scriptures all over the screen like 'Gone Away' does. 
It means nothing. It proves nothing. It is not helpful in any way. 
I'm sure even the Pope could quote scripture. 
 

I entirely agree with your last sentence and that is what I am hoping will happen very soon. 
Remember that the scripture says at Luke 12 v 45 & 46. :-
But if ever that slave should say in his heart, ‘My master delays coming,’n and starts to beat the male and female servants and to eat and drink and get drunk,o 46  the master of that slave will come on a day that he is not expecting him and at an hour that he does not know, and he will punish him with the greatest severity and assign him a part with the unfaithful ones.
I am hoping that the GB will be removed from the JW Org and replaced by honest hearted ones. 
But your illustration concerning Jesus and his disciples brings up other issues. In that case the people could easily see who Jesus was using to help him feed the crowd. It was clearly visible to the eyes. And the food was proven to be good food too.
However, it is not so easy for anyone to see who is chosen to distribute the spiritual food at this time. And also to know if the food distributed actually is approved of by God or Jesus Christ. 
Add to this that those who give themselves the title of 'Faithful and discreet slave' actually judge others of the anointed. And that the food they give is often withdrawn by them later, because it is not good food at all. It is proved to be poison. 
'The important thing for "the domestics" is that the food is distributed'
Is it ? Or is it that the food is truthful and correct and that it does actually come from the Master and not men's own thinking. 

If we were all inspired of God and all had the same communication with God via Jesus Christ then why would we need a 'faithful and discreet slave' to 'feed us the right food at the proper time' ?  We could all get fed directly from God via Christ. 
However the GB claim to be the only ones capable of feeding us in the proper way, as they say that they (those 8 men) are the only 'Faithful and discreet slave'. 
Quote : "However, we would would need to agree that the "chosen ones" would need to be living up to that choice".
Do you mean that they would need to be deserving of such true communication ? 

I have always wondered if the Bible is for 'all of us' to understand fully, or if it's only for a chosen few to fully understand.
I don't mean is it just for one 'religion' to understand, I mean is it just for say 'an anointed group of people to understand'? 
Jesus spoke in illustrations to the people, but the disciples asked Jesus what the illustrations meant. Then Jesus would explain the illustration to them fully. 
Jesus told his disciples that 'to them the sacred secrets would be revealed' but that the crowd would not get the meaning of such things. 
It was also that after Jesus was resurrected he opened the eyes of his disciples / apostles so that they began to fully understand all things.
For my part I would never expect to fully understand God's word the Bible. A lot of it is straight forward of course, and easy to comprehend.
But I think a lot of it is 'in deep code' so to speak, only fully understood by those that Jehovah chooses.. 
It still seems strange to me, but it would be a separate topic, that God allows it to be so difficult for people to find any truth amongst the huge amount of lies in 'religion'. 
However, in my opinion, there has to be a 'group of humans' 'anointed people' that do have some direct contact with God, through Jesus Christ. 
We no longer have 'miracles' being done in Christ's name, so it is difficult to know exactly who the 'chosen ones' are. 
If there was a 'body of people' that could prove that they had God's approval and God's holy spirit, that would make life much easier. 
However when those that say they are chosen either make mistakes or tell lies about the meaning of scripture, and then their predictions fail, then they seem to prove themselves false or without God's guidance.
So we go back to square one. Is there really a 'body of people' being truly guided and upbuilt by God's holy spirit at this time ? 
Is the Bible and it's prophecies being fully opened up to such ones ?
 

This topic is about Armageddon, will it won't it happen ?  I get moaned at for not keeping on topic. 
Therefore if I reply to your comment I will get shot up by the World News Media police. They seem to love to bully only me in this regard. 
I am actually a 'member' of the JW org web page, with log in details etc. As for it being 'honesty and truth' well that is up to each of us to decide if we believe that.  
I also studied last Sunday's study article in the W/T, which i found amusing. Even though my wife is told by the Elders not to talk to me about spiritual things, as she is not baptised it not for the Elders to decide, so we still converse about such matters. 
Concerning the Child abuse issue, I would love to discuss this but it would probably need to be elsewhere or a new topic. 
As you say, WE are all guilty. That was why I left the Org, so as not to be guilty. But I must leave it there for fear of being shot down. 
 

Sounds like you are making threats, and proves the WT are getting to be more a part of the world than ever. 
The GB should give more of it's time to worrying about a more important type of violation, that of children. 

Well said Allen!
And what to think about "water of truth", for free, without no charge, to buy without money and without so called "copyrights", that Jesus promised to all, and that have to be available for all, for people to be able to get everlasting life ::)))
What a funny reality, what a parody, what a shame to trade with "The Truth". And all in the name of Law, Secular, Worldly Law.
But when Secular Law said give us documents about this and that, then WT said, we must obey god more then you :))))))))

Wrong Sir!
Bro Jackson is correcting an outsider (STEWART) that HE is being presumptuous? PLEASE! When using the ARC transcript! Use them, CORRECTLY!!! Any JW is a spokesman for GOD!!!!
Thank YOU!

 
 

Wrong Sir!
Bro Jackson is correcting an outsider (STEWART) that HE is being presumptuous? PLEASE! When using the ARC transcript! Use them, CORRECTLY!!! Any JW is a spokesman for GOD!!!!
Thank YOU!

 
 

Wrong Sir!
Bro Jackson is correcting an outsider (STEWART) that HE is being presumptuous? PLEASE! When using the ARC transcript! Use them, CORRECTLY!!! Any JW is a spokesman for GOD!!!!
Thank YOU!

 
 

Although the last post was made in March, M.Stephen Lett, a "Public Figure",  does use a social platform doesn’t he, even though the Watchtower magazine made it clear the GB do not utilize social platforms.  Interesting that it is still up but not running.  If it was a fake, I believe there would be posts past March. 
  https://www.facebook.com/M-Stephen-Lett-737859476343764/
As is customary, you lump what is known as “Jehovah’s organization” in with all of the organizations in the world, making some sort of comparison based on the law of the land.  Yet, there is only one earthly organization that claims Isa 2:2-4 has its fulfillment; that is the Watchtower.  Only one, saying it is “spirit-directed” by God. Rev 13:1,11,15
 The “law” of Isa 2:2-4 consists of God’s ordinances. Do you realize this?  I don’t believe so, because when it is convenient, you say things such as, Once again, if you’re going to address the issue? Include ALL!, hiding the obvious into a bigger gene pool.  
Which is it, Allen, just another organization dealing with child abuse, or is it God’s organization?
Truthfully, it is the former, since the true “organization” is the anointed Body of Christ, God’s Temple, with “living stones” arranged as God chooses. Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9;1 Cor 12:18,27 Christ spoke about this, do you remember?  John 2:20,21; 4:23,24  Following the laws of the land are scripturally necessary; following God’s laws are a demand that He requires of his anointed priesthood. Mal 2:7; Heb 8:10 We have instances where the Watchtower prefers breaking not only the laws of the land; but consistently, breaking God’s laws in Christ. 
 “And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”  Dan 7:25  
This concerns God's time and laws, not man's.
JWs have been led to believe they are “safe” in the organization, no matter what sins the Wt. commits.  “Wait on Jehovah”, it is called.  When an individual sins, the story changes and that person is disfellowshipped.  Is God hypocritical, or men? Have JWs demeaned the Almighty God to the point that they believe He sways easily when it comes to the care of His sheep and the adherence to His decrees?  Jer 7:5-11; Dan 9:9-11  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jer+7%3A5-11%3B+Dan+9%3A9-11&version=NKJV
The “mountain-like organization”/idol, and spiritual “Israel”/anointed ones and companions, are receiving breaking news.  The GB will be ousted and not long after, the organization will fall.
Matt 10:23; John 16:13;Matt 13:37-42; 17:11; Zech 4:11-14;Rev 11:1-3; Hos 10:8; Luke 23:30; Rev 6:16; 8:8;17:15-18 (the “anointed” of Rev 11:1-3; Zech 4:11-14 are the “angels” that Christ “sends” to the Temple/priesthood, declaring the need to repent Rev 2:20; 3:18)  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+10%3A23%3B+John+16%3A13%3BMatt+13%3A37-42%3B+17%3A11%3B+Zech+4%3A11-14%3BRev+11%3A1-3%3B+Hos+10%3A8%3B+Luke+23%3A30%3B+Rev+6%3A16%3B+8%3A8%3B17%3A15-18+&version=WEB
What better way is there, to reach thousands of spiritual “Israel” and JWs, than through social media? 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/restorationofjacob/?ref=bookmarks
Please, defend God and His righteousness in Christ – not a façade that pretends righteousness.
Go into the rocks, hide in the ground
    from the fearful presence of the Lord
    and the splendor of his majesty!
11 The eyes of the arrogant will be humbled
    and human pride brought low; (1Cor.10:12; 3:18)
    the Lord alone will be exalted in that day… NOT A “MOUNTAIN-LIKE ORGANIZATION!
 9 So people will be brought low
    and everyone humbled—
    do not forgive them."  (Luke14:11)
17 The arrogance of man will be brought low
    and human pride humbled;                         
    the Lord alone will be exalted in that day,
18 and the idols will totally disappear. (Rev.13:8)
19 People will flee to caves in the rocks
    and to holes in the ground (Rev.13:4,3)
    from the fearful presence of the Lord
    and the splendor of his majesty,
    when he rises to shake the earth.
            (Amos9:9; Haggai 2:6,7; Ps.18:7; Isa.13:13;
             Heb.12:26; Eze.38:19; Rev.11:13; 16:18; Joel3:16)
    Stop trusting in mere humans,
    who have but a breath in their nostrils.
    Why hold them in esteem?"    Isa.2:10,11,9,17,18,19,22
(From Pearl Doxsey’s article: YHWY’s Genuine Mountain)
 

Did you ask him?  Did you check it out, or are you too afraid to?  If so, how can you be so naive?  The posts are benign, with the comments made by JWs.  You can look them up and see. The same goes for his "friend", Anthony Morris III. There is not one sarcastic note about either page.   For both pages, the activity stopped around March/April., and I am guessing because of the statement made by the organization concerning the GB and social forums.

Why don't you ask him? His page says that he typically "replies instantly". Let me know what he says 

sigh .... this is true.
I was suspicious of about 65% of them ... knowing they were false personas ... but I did not have enough evidence to know WHO.
I remember when I was a small boy, and our family was on a long car trip, in the summer, with no car air conditioning ... going to visit relatives.
I told my Father "Daddy, I gotta PEE!"
He, not wanting to stop, said "Hang your butt out the window, and pee."
Horrified at the idea I voiced my objections, and he said "Oh, yeah, well ... hold one hand over your face so they cannot see whose butt they are looking at!  Everybody has a butt ... just don't let them know that one is YOURS!"
.... same thing.
 

sources include:

"She says she was 5 when another Jehovah's Witness raped her.  The religion's leaders call such accounts 'false stories'"
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/jehovahs-witnesses-child-sex-abuse-stephen-lett-chessa-manion-20180620.html
"Often times, the terms compulsive liar and pathological liar are used interchangeably. However, in reality, both are different. Although, both have this habit of lying about every small or big thing, yet their motives behind lying are not the same. Nor do they pose the same kind of threat to the people around them.
Compulsive Liar
A compulsive liar is a person who will lie, no matter what. It has become a habit with him/her to lie about everything and he/she has no control over it. The thing with people who have compulsive lying disorder is that they lie because they find telling the truth very uncomfortable. So, to avoid themselves from this discomfort, they resort to lying.
Pathological Liar
A pathological liar is someone who lies to get his way. They are manipulative, crafty, and usually have a goal in mind when they lie. They have no concern for the feelings of others, even of those people who are close to them.
Stephen Lett is a very sick man.  He suffers from both. 
(https://psychologenie.com/pathological-liar-vs-compulsive-liar)
 
 
 

They do not.
It is your spin on them that they call false stories.
Assuming that it is true, In an ever-changing population of 8 million, there will be examples of anything.

I have suffered from both types of liars, too. But I don't think Stephen Lett is either. He was a District Overseer that included my present circuit. I've seen him up close in front of a congregation and at assemblies, although I can't say I have seen him interact closely with elders or other individuals. But he was known to be a man full of a lot of love and concern for others.
When it comes to defending something he loves -- and he loves the organization -- he is prone to the same kinds of mistakes that all humans make. They will often "spin" and exaggerate and filter out negative details to try to put the thing they love in the best light possible. Most people do this naturally when it come to speaking about their children, their spouses, and other loved ones. If you listen closely to what he said, it was also obvious that it was calculated to be a true statement. He didn't say that we have no trouble with such crimes, or that we are better than other religions. He said that we don't protect sexual predators and a claim that we protect predators is a lie that finds its source in apostate lies.
It turns out that he was trying to generalize, and probably spoke from a belief he holds to be true.
I believe he is wrong in some serious ways, but I don't know that he knew he was wrong. I think he thought he was right. I do have direct evidence that we have upheld policies that have protected criminals more than we have protected the victims of these criminals. This may have even protected criminal elders more than others persons in congregations where such crimes have been committed. I think that even now there are policies and procedures that tend to protect criminals more than they protect children, but the written policy is almost as good as it can be made under the restrictions of the two-witness policy (as we currently think we must apply it).

My 1991 Flock book has notes in the margins expressing the instructor's warnings about the danger of media contact. And, of course, it contains exactly the same text handwritten on the blank page 143 that every elder at the time was asked to write in their own Flock book.
I'll type out my handwritten notes as dictated during "school" with respect to what goes on an S77 or S79 form. I think it's easy to see from this (and comments from the instructor(s)) that protecting the reputation of the WTS is always considered very important.
I see much value in many of the points that were added. I think most people would be able to read this idea of "protecting the Society" between the lines, even if they didn't hear the words and attitude of the instructor. Here are my handwritten notes:
Avoid expressions on these forms:     S77, S79 form
1) "anything alluding or naming one of the Society's attorneys"
2) any mention of the legal dept
3) any comments referring to the direction from the Society
4) any comments mentioning anyone other than the committee itself as a possible influence in the decision reached
5) any comment that might suggest to someone with a critical eye that the committee did not reach its decision on its own but, instead, somehow yielded to the influence of an outside party
6) any comments indicating that the elders mishandled the case, or committed any error in the investigation of the judicial committee process.
Every time these forms are mentioned in the Flock book, the reference to the "blank" page 143 was to be written in the margin as a reminder. Still, as just one example, page 114 (or 115) in most "schooled" Flock books will also have a marginal handwritten note as stated by the instructor that says (with respect to reinstatements, especially):
"It would be best to check with Branch Office before making the exception."
I should add that the above information we were to write on page 143 comes after several chapters of very specific direction from the Society about various ins and outs of the judicial process, exactly how to judge the difference in "levels" of sexual immorality, porneia, and other types of wrongdoing, repentance, etc. And it comes immediately on the blank page just before the chapter called "Jehovah's People Theocratically Organized for His Name." The purpose of the chapter is to strengthen the idea that all this direction properly comes from the Society which is already somewhat contradictory in spirit to points 3, 4, and 5 above.
The text of the chapter includes many of the following points which are basically correct, but they also add greatly to the sense that Jehovah's Name must be protected through protecting the name (or reputation) of the organization:
Today, this involves a "stewardship from God," an arrangement administered through a "faithful and discreet slave." Local congregations throughout the earth are not organized according to democratic principles but are under God-governed, theocratic control. We must recognize and submit to this theocratic rulership. The anointed remnant has been entrusted with all of the Master's belongings. Overseers serve as earthly representatives under the direction of the steward class. Theocratic submission requires recognition of this orderly arrangement. God's laws are based on righteous principles, and they are enforceable by an organization or an agency.

Assuming that it is true that Lett lies…and there are examples.
What bothers you more, that I stand up to your leaders, exposing them for who they are, or the child abuse coverup?  Do you love your leaders more than righteous acts, which Lett who had the power to perform more than just offering empty words, didn’t do; and followed up with a lie thirteen years later? Ps 5:9
JWI, your words are gentle, but if this man can be excused for saying or doing the wrong thing, how is it that the anointed “brothers” of his, who approach the elders about such issues – using scripture – and are very sure of their belief, are not excused by it, but reprimanded and face disfellowshipping?  Matt 24:48-51 explains this. 
He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them.”  Luke 21:8
There is only one translation that I have found for 2 Cor 5:20, that throws in the word “substitute” – not just once, but twice – the NWT.
“Therefore, we are ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us. As substitutes for Christ, we beg: “Become reconciled to God.”
KJV – “Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.”
Among the anointed ones that I know, none have expected obedience to themselves. The governing body must be obeyed first and foremost over Christ. The scriptures don’t say a “faithful and discreet slave” should be obeyed.  What does that tell you?  They are the false “christs”, the apostates, and even if it does not appear so on the surface, liars. Prov 26:23-25
Matt 24:24 -  “For there shall arise false Christs, (“one who falsely lays claim to the name and office of the Messiah”)  and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect (chosen).”
The governing body lineage, are both false “Christs” and false prophets.
What should be his first love?  Matt 22:37-40
 
 
 
 

The thing people often fail to realize is that there are EXTREMELY righteous people out there, inside and outside of Jehovah's Witnesses, that are dullards.
They do not know they are dullards .... and it doesn't bother them a bit.  It's like being dead ... you don't know you are dead ... but it makes it HARD for those who love you, and everything about you.
My very best guess about Stephen Lett, who I call "Poppin Fresh" (The Pillsbury Dough Boy), is that he is a very fine Brother who is truly one of the Anointed, and God loves him dearly ... although the cynical side of me visualizes him  taking huge bags of money and a shovel out the main gate of Warwick, in the dead of night,  across the street, and into the woods , to the massive Real Estate acreage he has in his  name.
Sorry ... I just cannot "turn it off".
My best guess is that he DOES NOT KNOW THAT THE THINGS HE SAYS ARE NOT TRUE ... which would make him totally innocent of the charge that he is ANY kind of liar.
As John 9:41 says, paraphrased "...Justice must be tempered with mercy for Blind pawns.".
Even blind pawns that think of themselves as enlightened Power Players.
For a person to be ANY kind of liar .... he has to actually KNOW that what he is saying is not true.
 
 

I really enjoy all of AllenSmith's comments ... seriously.
He has a perspective on life that is truly astonishing, and entertaining !
Scary, in a "Roseanne Roseannadanna" kind of way .... but astonishing and entertaining !
 
 

I attempted above to only address the actual point of difference, as I see it, between your view and my view of the GB.  To be fair, I should probably acknowledge that you appear to be trying to make some additional specific points in your post, but there was nothing there that seemed very appropriate to comment on, because most of what you said just simply doesn't apply or I have always been in full agreement with it. The intent of some of your post wasn't clear to me. So perhaps if I try to respond to what I think you meant, you will be able to clarify further if you can see I'm not understanding you correctly.
From what I can tell, your instant reaction to call me and my views heretical and your other attempts at defamation have become a kind of reflex for you. You apparently don't read what I am saying before quickly misunderstanding words that you don't like.
In this case, I think the primary word you didn't like was "influence." You didn't like that I had said used the term "influence . . . emanated from the Governing Body" in the following question that I had asked:
You might not have understood that I meant this in a very positive way. I mean that the Governing Body has positively influenced Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide with proper guidance and teachings. Yes, I know I have not held back from discussing non-Biblical influences in the past, too, but the question above focused only on the positive influences. It could be restated as follows:
Is it possible that (through all the various publications, practices, encouragement of good habits, assigned Bible reading/discussion, reviewing of important Bible topics, etc.) that the Governing Body has already produced enough good influence on congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses so that they are readily capable of standing on their own in the event of severe persecution that would cut us off from communication with the Governing Body? I hoped the question was rhetorical, because it seems obvious that congregational elders and servants should already be trusted to help guide and teach a congregation in such circumstances. We already know there have been exceptional cases and extreme circumstances in the recent modern history of Jehovah's Witnesses where communication has been cut off and the Witness work and congregational matters went on without any major problems. And as I already stated in the post, we are reminded that we should be ready for such extreme circumstances.
I also note that you might have misunderstood my use of the word "past." It didn't refer to Russell, Rutherford, and past GB "influences." It refers to the pattern of instruction already received, with good habits learned over the years. Many elders and servants had no ability to manage even a small project, yet past assignments over the years have taught many brothers and sisters to rise to the occasion to manage complex tasks. (Assembly organization, budgets, donations, paperwork, building halls, scheduling assignments.)
I think you took some offense to the fact that I mentioned influence of the GB as if it superseded the influence of Jehovah, Jesus, the Bible, and the holy spirit. That wasn't the intent. For some individuals, unfortunately, I think it does supersede all these entities. But that wasn't the topic here. I meant it only as a guide for understanding proper spiritual influence.
This is where I figured you must have misunderstood GB influence. I meant it, just as you said: "a GUIDE to the teachings of Christ" not a replacement for Scripture. I know where you are coming from, so I don't blame you for thinking I was here referring to areas where I believe the Bible gives us a clear reason to disagree. But in this context I was referring to the many areas where we can positively agree.

Because, Tom,  this is harmless repartee', and cheap entertainment .... and it is incredibly funny when AllenSmith says "And you just proved how incorherent you and people like you such as "WITNESS" are " ... and he spells incoherent wrong in chastising others for being in his opinion, incoherent.
Now THAT'S entertainment!

(New news ....)  A MONTANA Judge Orders Jehovah’s Witnesses to Turn Over Internal Documents Related to Childhood Sexual Abuse
April 12, 2018
 
On April 5, 2018, Judge James Manley of Sanders County, Montana ordered the Jehovah’s Witnesses religious organization to produce documents and testimony related to internal reports and investigations into the childhood sexual abuse of NPR’s two clients.
 
In this case, the two Plaintiffs were sexually abused as children by a member of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. The Elders in the local Jehovah’s Witness congregation in Thompson Falls, Montana were aware of the abuse and failed to report it to the police, choosing instead to handle the reports and investigations internally pursuant to Jehovah’s Witness guidelines. Their decision not to report the abuse to authorities allowed the perpetrator to remain in the congregation and continue to abuse one of the Plaintiffs.
 
Throughout this case, and similar childhood sexual abuse cases across the country, the Jehovah’s Witnesses have refused to produce documents related to their internal handling of reports of sexual abuse and related investigations and disciplinary actions claiming that the information is protected by the clergy-penitent privilege and the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
 
Through briefing to the court, NPR convinced the Judge that Defendants’ privilege claims were unsupported and improper under the law. The Court agreed that Defendants could not blanket everything related to their investigations in secrecy and that they must turn it over to the Plaintiffs. Often, this is the very evidence that can win or lose a case like this against a religious institution.
 
The case of Nunez, et al. v. Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York, et al.  is set to go to trial in September of 2018.
The plaintiffs in this case are represented by NPR partner D. Neil Smith and associate Ross E. Leonoudakis.
 
----------------------------------------------------------
A Jury of 12 held in public view ... or a tribunal of three held in complete secrecy.
Which would YOU choose,  to get Justice?