Anna

I didn't say iimperfection was an excuse or justification to sinning. We all sin, that is just fact. No matter how hard we try not to. Don't you know that this is the reason Jesus gave his life for us? We wouldn't have a leg to stand on otherwise.

Sure. And guess what, we all sin many times. And guess again, the wages sin pays is death. And you know what that means.

What are you talking about? The Catholic church teaches that those who commit suicide will burn in hell. I remember watching a documentary about 9/11 where people were jumping out of windows because they didn't want to be burned alive. There was a Hispanic couple that was being interviewed, they may have been the parents of one of the jumpers. They were extremely distraught hoping that it wasn't their son who was depicted on one of the photographs because they believed if it was, then he was in hell. It was hard to watch.

When someone commits suicide, it's because they are not of sound mind, if perhaps only for that moment. Jehovah is not going to punish them for that.

He shot himself.

I just found out yesterday that a brother who used to date one of the sisters from our hall killed himself two days ago. They had got in trouble and were both disfellowshipped. Then they both got reinstated but the sister started dating someone else and 3 months ago got married. Apparently he just couldn't get over it. He was only 23.

Exactly, and for good reason. Don't worry about "Noisy Raclette" (oh I do love that cheese, used to have it every weekend for a few weeks. It takes a while to eat when you get half the round). He has a few other names that he used to go by. Don't you Allen?

Hmm....they were banned from the hall....sounds like there was a lot of animosity between the two parties... Whatever it was it was enough to drive a man to kill his wife and himself....

Actions speak louder than words. Always.

Do you know why?

I think Pudgy already has it in the closed club too, but everyone started commenting on it here. Probably because they didn't notice what club it was. I didn't straight away..

I don't think anybody here is disputing that. The thing is, the man was obviously not of sound mind to take such drastic action. The question is, what got him into this desperate state? Or was he already unstable and something happened that was the last straw that broke the camels back? What is clear is as Amidsttheroses says; he sent a strong message. What was he trying to say is what I would like to know. (I agree, this topic should be moved to the closed club. Would you mind @JW Insiderwhen you have a moment? Thank you!)

There seem to be a lot of "don't knows" in this latest report: https://www.denverpost.com/2022/12/26/jehovah-witness-murder-suicide-pipe-bombs-thornton/ and this: https://www.9news.com/video/news/local/neighbors-describe-overhearing-the-murder-suicide-at-jehovahs-witness-kingdom-hall/73-5c6251b9-2eff-4529-bc8f-9656763d6142

The best thing would be if we got the facts from the brothers at that KH. But it's like trying to draw blood out of a stone.... Is it all about trying to make us look squeaky clean again? I wonder if this will be mentioned on our website....With the facts? Let's all have a bet, yay on nay?

You know that "former member" and "was not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses" is the same thing in our eyes, and only depends on who is saying it. I.e a news reporter will say "former member" and someone at the KH may say "they were not Witnesses".

I like how all those "brave" folks say they go packing to church....and that none of this would have happened.... but don't they know there is the element of surprise? True, we don't know the whole story yet, but I doubt any of those gun toting people would have changed the outcome of this particular tragic story. It's obvious the husband only intended to kill himself and his wife....and did it pretty quick probably.

"That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach". Aldous Huxley

Sounds like the exams we used to have to take (at least it seemed like it 😄). There were no multiple choice questions, you really had to know your subject in order to be able to write about it.

I don't think we use those forms any more....at least I haven't for years...

I thought it looked weird when I was reading it. I kept going back to it thinking this doesn't look right.... The simplest solution evidently didn't occur to me. Now who's stupid 😂 I'm surprised JWI didn't make a joke out of it already

Oh dear...now this sounds like I am saying Americans can't help being stupid. I think I've been watching too much Blacklist and I'm beginning to sound like Aram Mojtabai. Those who have watched the show will know what I mean. I should just shut up...

I just realised this may sound like I was inferring that JWI is stupid. Of course I don't mean that. If you live in the USA, you don't have much choice, especially not if you don't live close to a gruff German grandma!

I agree. Things that used to be simple, have been made ridiculously complicated and commercialized. That's why I like the former soviet countries, they haven't caught on to this rubbish yet, or at least they have bigger fish to fry for now.....OR they know they wouldn't get the customers because people aren't stupid enough, yet* 🤪😂 OR, these kind of enterprises are not the best type for money laundering *they go to grandma's orchard and pick their free apples for free, or pick the apples that grow on trees lining country roads...

I will try! (But I'm also in the United States). You are like me, I also feel compassion for people who are upset over the situation in the world. I agree we should write to him. After all, Jehovah is looking for people like that!

Allen! Allen! Allen! Allen! Allen! ALLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN!