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Anna

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Everything posted by Anna

  1. Anna
    I know this was for JTR, but if you don't mind me repeating what your moral obligation is in plain English: report everything you know to the police and let them decide what to do with it. I don't really understand John what the dilemma is for you, because you are the one who brought up the topic of the JW organization and their failure of not reporting to police. Now is your chance to demonstrate how it should be done, and you are not sure? I'm not trying to be mean, I just don't get it...
  2. Anna
    Yes. Also, I meant to reply to your other post where you mentioned someone experimenting with various forms of attachment and that it was found that a nail through the palm of the hand would not necessarily rip through. My point in defending the WT depicting the nail going through the wrists was made on the assumption that the WT used earlier experiments which stated that the palm of the hand was not strong enough. I suppose the WT has a point when it says that one could keep changing the illustrations depending on new ideas, so they will just stick to the one since it's only meant to be an approximate depiction anyway.... I am thinking, looking at it from a biological point of view, that the nail could find the point of least resistance and could slip between the carpal bones in the wrist without breaking them.... Someone must have experimentally tried that as well I'm sure... Ps. Here is someone's idea of where the nail could have gone through. But this idea has been disputed by some. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/space_of_Destot
  3. Anna
    Lucian also used that term (not sure if it was exactly that term because I cannot check my sources right now) in his writings about the Christians and their "crucified sophist" referring to Jesus in "the death of Peregrine": The poor wretches have convinced themselves, first and foremost, that they are going to be immortal and live for all time, in consequence of which they despise death and even willingly give themselves into custody; most of them. Furthermore, their first lawgiver persuaded them that they are all brothers of one another after they have transgressed once for all by denying the Greek gods and by worshipping that crucified sophist himself and living under his laws.
  4. Anna
    Sure. But those kind of tactics would be self defeating for someone looking for the truth. I would think most on here are just looking for facts to establish the truth.
  5. Anna
    That is why I said try to get the police it keep it confidential, because some of those people might get the mistaken impression you are doing this out of a grudge. In any case, if you explain exactly from what source you know this information, then the polic should be wise enough to handle it as possible "hearsay" and tread carefully when conducting their investigation so as not to falsely accuse someone. That is if they are competent.
  6. Anna
    You are welcome! Page 24 is of that same WT and since I do not have an actual copy of it, I cannot see the illustration. WT library (where I got the quote from) does not have illustrations in it. My mum used to have all the bound volumes, I don't know if she still does, but that would be the place to look. Otherwise you have to get a hold of a pdf file of the magazine. I am assuming page 24 will have Jesus on an upright stake, with either his hands or his wrists nailed to it. Someone else might have a copy. Or if I find a reference I will let you know.
  7. Anna
    I found this for you @JOHN BUTLER Watchtower 1987/ 8/15, page: 29 "We do know that his hands or arms were not simply bound, for Thomas later said: “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails.” (John 20:25) That could have meant a nail through each hand, or the plural “nails” might have reference to nail prints in ‘his hands and his feet.’ (See Luke 24:39.) We cannot know precisely where the nails pierced him, though it obviously was in the area of his hands. The Scriptural account simply does not provide exact details, nor does it need to. And if scholars who have directly examined the bones found near Jerusalem in 1968 cannot even be sure how that corpse was positioned, it certainly does not prove how Jesus was positioned. We thus recognize that depictions of Jesus’ death in our publications, such as you see on page 24, are merely reasonable artistic renderings of the scene, not statements of anatomic absolutes. Such depictions need not reflect the changing and conflicting opinions of scholars, and the drawings definitely avoid religious symbols that stem from ancient paganism.
  8. Anna
    I would tell the Police everything you know, and leave it in their hands, i.e. let them decide where they want to go with that information. Remember, they are supposed know the right thing to do. Personally, I would want to remain anonymous, not with the police, but with everyone else. But I am not sure if that's possible.
  9. Anna
    So, is no one going to challenge Lucian of Samosata? Prometheus, relief from the Temple of Aphrodite at Aphrodisias And/or comments about the ship's mast?
  10. Anna
    Yes, I realised that, I must have misunderstood you. I though you meant that Jesus was nailed to the patibulum while he was carrying it, so I wondered how Simon could have got a hold of it... You must have meant that they nailed Jesus to it once they got to the site.
  11. Anna
    I guess you don't agree with me, lol
  12. Anna
    Wait a minute, I thought Simon of Cy·reʹne carried the torture stake
  13. Anna
    I guess you say "theological" because some women think Sean Connery is a god? Anyway, I think the real Bond was Roger Moore. Sean is far to Scottish for an Englishman like Bond.
  14. Anna
    Pretty rough on actors, I'd say. I guess everyone's a critic. I didn't even notice that part of the quote, I read it really quickly. Just shows how easy it is for someone not to translate very well, or whoever wrote that website is not a native English speaker. I noticed some more "errors" such as ; " He [Stavros] is very good in hands and he is usually an exceptionally good husband and friend". They must have meant crimes. I wonder if Greek for crime is similar to scene in English......after all, there was a lot of crime scenes in Greek plays....
  15. Anna
    While vacationing one year in Greece we got stuck in Athens for a couple of days waiting for our friends who were arriving by car from central Europe. In the meantime we decided to do some sightseeing and while doing our touristy thing we got joined by a jolly and friendly young Greek man. This was quite a long time ago, before the days of paranoia, plus my mum and I were rather laid back. Anyway, this young man, in his late teens or early twenties, decided he was going to show us around. I won’t go into detail, he did a great job, (although he smoked like a chimney), and like practically every Greek I have ever heard of was called Stavros. It was just now while reading this it suddenly dawned on me that the name Stavros must be connected to Stauros. And sure enough HERE it says this about the origin of the name: “Name Stavros is a rather common Greek male name and as we said comes from the Greek word “stavros” which means cross. Of course in the ancient years the word cross was referring to the item of this shape, with no political or religious meaning. The cross was used by barbarians and then by Romans who started crucifying people as a punishment for their scenes. The cross became a sacred item and symbol for Christianity when Christ was crucified on it by the Romans. The Greek Orthodox Church celebrates the name Stavros in memory of those important moments for Christianity on September 14th, the day of the Holy Cross". I don’t know how that claim can be made “that in ancient years the word cross was referring to the item of this shape” when the etymology of that word is said to originate from ἵστημι histēmi: meaning "straighten up", "stand" . (Besides, excuse the smuttiness, I think if I was a guy I’d rather be likened to an upright pole than some other shape). On the other hand, an upright pole or stake doesn't necessarily have to exclude some other piece of wood attached to it, if the main part is the upright stake. I mean when the Bible talks about stauros and if it had a cross beam, would it then have to call it "a stauros with another piece of wood horizontally attached at the top of it" ? As everyone knows, the meanings of words change through the centuries, even just decades. eg. gay meant happy not that long ago, now it means homosexual. Hypothetically it could be difficult for someone who discovered a text 2,000 years from now, to know what the author was speaking about if he wrote about a "gay couple". Were the couple happy, or were they homosexual?.....In the same token, was it a single upright stake, or a stake with a cross beam? Sorry, I think I'm just rambling....
  16. Anna
    That wouldn't matter because people not going to meetings will become demotivated and eventually not bother with anything to do with the Witnesses, and especially giving money to them.....in my opinion anyway..
  17. Anna
    At last we have joined the land of the civilized again! I sure hope that our "flight" may not occur in the winter time 😨 So drum roll............. The etymology of stauros: The R. S. P. Beekes, Etymological Dictionary of Greek, Brill, 2009, says on page 601: The word stauros comes from the verb ἵστημι (histēmi: "straighten up", "stand"), which in turn comes from the Proto-Indo-European root *steh2-u- "pole",[1] related to the root *steh2- "to stand, to set" Lucian of Samosata, (circa 125-180 AD) a satirical writer in the 2nd century mentions the word stauros with its' various forms such as: Anestavrostho, stavromenos, and stavrosi etc. which translators have translated as “let him be crucified” “crucified” and “crucifixion” respectively. ἀνεσταυρώσθω (Anestavrostho - let him be crucified) σταυρωμένος (stavromenos – crucified) σταύρωση (stavrosi- crucifixion) In his writing about Prometheus he apparently gives us an idea of what he thought the stauros looked like: Hermes: This, Hephaestus, is the Caucasus, to which it is our painful duty to nail our companion. We have now to select a suitable crag, free from snow, on which the chains will have a good hold, and the prisoner will hang in all publicity. Hephaestus: True. It will not do to fix him too low down, or these men of his might come to their maker's assistance; nor at the top, where he would be invisible from the earth. What do you say to a middle course? Let him hang over this precipice, with his arms stretched across from crag to crag. Hermes: The very thing. Steep rocks, slightly overhanging, inaccessible on every side; no foothold but a mere ledge, with scarcely room for the tips of one's toes; altogether a sweet spot for a crucifixion. Now, Prometheus, come and be nailed up; there is no time to lose. Prometheus: Nay, hear me; Hephaestus! Hermes! I suffer injustice: have compassion on my woes! Hermes: In other words, disobey orders, and promptly be gibbeted in your stead! Do you suppose there is not room on the Caucasus to peg out a couple of us? Come, your right hand! clamp it down, Hephaestus, and in with the nails; bring down the hammer with a will. Now the left; make sure work of that too.--So!--The eagle will shortly be here, to trim your liver; so ingenious an artist is entitled to every attention. This website shows the Greek version with the English translation. Unfortunately I wanted to go to the next page as well and then couldn’t go back because I had reached my limit for pages (which seems to be one (!). So don’t make the same mistake as me, unless you want to subscribe. https://www.loebclassics.com/view/lucian-prometheus/1915/pb_LCL054.241.xml ------------------------------------------------ The Greek playwright Aeschylus (circa 525 -456 BCE) wrote (supposedly) the original play Prometheus Bound* and does not mention a stauros but that doesn’t change the idea that stauros could have been a stake with a cross beam as per Lucian’s satirical interpretation of the Prometheus mythology/legend. In one of his other writings "the death of Peregrine" he mentions the stauros with relation to Jesus: "Peregrine, all this time, was making quite an income on the strength of his bondage; money came pouring in. You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. So the questions are: Where did Lucian get his idea for the shape of the stauros? Or was it translation bias? Or tampering with the original writing? Or were people already executed on a cross beam in the 2nd Century as opposed much later (4th century)? You might think of other questions.... *Prometheus Bound - Aeschylus "But forcibly to bind a brother God, In chains, in this deep chasm raked by all storms........In bonds of brass not easy to be loosed, Nailing thee to this crag where no wight dwells" http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/aesch/promet.htm
  18. Anna
    Thanks, I needed to see that, because both the Bible teach book and its simplified replacement; The teach us book unequivocally state that Jesus did not die on a cross. We still don't have electricity, so I am still not able to get to my stuff on the computer. The jaws theme is still rolling!!
  19. Anna
    Hmmmm.....if that was the case then it would be very short sighted because if members don't attend meetings, eventually that will lead to less donations. So how about a more frugal use of Kingdom Halls?
  20. Anna
    What kind of issues specifically?
  21. Anna
    Which KH will get sold, your parents hall or the one they attend now?
  22. Anna
    Quite a number of these seem to be double or even triple entries of the same building, but slightly different price... The congregation my husband used to belong to sold their old KH 8 years ago and built a beautiful new one in a more prominent part of town. The old KH is being used by the Unity or something church. They put a little playground for kids in one part of the parking lot.
  23. Anna
    You are confused @Srecko Sostar. Sorry. What I mean to say is that I do not have to beat about the bush or tread carefully because of fear of disfellowshipping just because I think we should not categorically claim that Jesus did not die on a cross. You seemed to imply earlier that one could get disfellowshipped for that and be branded an apostate.
  24. Anna
    Yes, of course they have office staff that open the mail. And as any office staff they will filter letters according to relevance. If a letter is directly addressed to the GB, then I am assuming that if this letter is not something ridiculous, then it will get passed onto the relevant department. I think @JW Insider will know better than me. As far as I am aware, for example, if it is a doctrinal issue, then this would be passed onto and handled by the writing department. If it is something worth considering, then it would become part of the GB agenda for the weekly meeting. If it is something that the writing department can answer, then you would most likely get an answer from that department.
  25. Anna
    It seems you were barking up the wrong tree when you approached the elders then. Who is it that would change the doctrine? The WT org, not the elders.
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