Anna

It is, isn't it! This is why the whole situation is not so cut and dry as opposers would have us believe.....

Where is one supposed to look?? I can't see anything like this...

Not quite this, but there are discussions whether medication to suppress sexual desires could work. Here is another interesting article: https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/pessimism-about-pedophilia

This is the case now. I will try and dig up the latest child protection policies of Jehovah's Witnesses if you haven't seen them yet.

Suzi, thank you for sharing your story. This is the crux of the problem I think, that is why I posted that article you mention. It wasn't to excuse the perpetrators of course, but to excuse those who naively believed a child was safe with them (the perpetrator). As you say, good people just don't think the way perverts do, and that was my argument with regard to Candace Conti, that the elders (despite knowing about one incidence with his step daughter) just did not believe that the perpetrator (Kendrick) would ever do anything like that again. He did. He molested Candace. Then after Candace, he molested his new wife's grandchild. The elders had no idea about any of this. They only found out when Candace confronted them with it years later..... You also had no idea about your step father, you blame yourself for it, but as you see, you are a good person, who just couldn't imagine that anyone could be capable of anything like that.... The adage should be: "once a child molester, always a child molester". HOWEVER, this is not entirely compatible with scripture, and with the idea that people can change. This is the attitude we Witnesses try to take. BUT, at the same time it needs to be recognized that pedophilia is a real clinical case, almost a disease, that has to be fought like an addiction to alcohol. Is a cure possible? Not entirely, as an alcoholic has to abstain for the rest of his life otherwise he will revert. The same with a pedophile, he cannot ever be trusted around children, until in the new system.

Yes, I fully agree with you, one should expect that  Actually JWs in Italy are one of the largest religions after the Catholics

Yes, instruction is fine, but with this instruction comes honesty. For years we have bashed the Catholic church for shutting their eyes to child sexual molestation. Although our situation is different to that of the Catholic church, we are not immune to those in authority using their position to get away with such things as child molestation, wife beating etc. Although not prolific like opposers would make out, still, in the words of our own organization "one molested child is one too many". The facts are; there have been elders and ministerial servants who have sexually molested children, and who have got away with it for a long time because no one would believe something like this could ever happen in our organization, after all we ARE Jehovah's organization! I do not believe the GB should hold our hands, just admitting this problem does exist in Jehovah's organization would suffice. Sooner or later this admission will be made, but the longer it's evaded, the worse the results will be as there will be a lot of publishers who will wonder why this information has been withheld for so long.....

Nice to know JWs are not in the top 10 cults of America either https://www.toptentopia.com/the-10-most-famous-cults-in-united-states-history/ P.S. But funnily enough there is a suggestion in the comments by a number of people saying they should be included. A little bit of bias there perhaps?

True, one reason is because these are targeted questions, the kind of questions not necessarily asked by the general public, but mainly the questions WE, Jehovah's Witnesses ask the public to think about. To illustrate, if I was a random person, (someone perhaps who has never heard about Jehovah's Witnesses) and I begun to be conscious of a spiritual need, I might wonder where to begin. I might google "getting to know god" . This search brings up various Christian denominations from the Christadelphians to the Mormons. JWs do not appear even after 3 pages (I didn't look any further). The same results come up after searching for "ways to praise god" "how to find god" and "where can I find god". On the other hand questions such as "Truth about god" and "Who is god" brings up JWs as the first entry. “Who are true Christians” brings up 6 “Christian websites” first, and 7th one is ours with the slightly curious heading “Origin of the Cross—Why True Christians Do Not Use the Cross”. Interestingly, according to this website the percentage of traffic directed from search is 13.40%. It is a lot higher in some of the other sites. But it’s pretty cool that we rank number 1 especially as the most translated website. We probably also still rank number 1 for most widely distributed magazine in the world (WT 1st, Awake 2nd)

Very interesting so far JWInsider. Enjoying reading your analysis. I got into a discussion once with a "Bible Student" and he wanted to know the difference between Christ's coming (to execute final judgement) and his parousia (the invisible extended period of time prior to that). He said it was one and the same thing. It does get kind of confusing when Jesus apparently "came" in 1918... I'm sure you are aware of the July 2013 WT, where the writers attempted to explain the new understanding. (I realise this is bringing another element into the equation, namely the faithful and discreet slave) 16 Regarding the faithful and discreet slave, Jesus says: “Happy is that slave if his master on arriving [“having come,” ftn.] finds him doing so.” In the parable of the virgins, Jesus states: “While they were going off to buy, the bridegroom arrived [“came,” Kingdom Interlinear].” In the parable of the talents, Jesus relates: “After a long time the master of those slaves came.” In the same parable, the master says: “On my arrival [“having come,” Int] I would be receiving what is mine.” (Matt. 24:46; 25:10, 19, 27) To what time do these four instances of Jesus’ coming refer? 17 In the past, we have stated in our publications that these last four references apply to Jesus’ arriving, or coming, in 1918. As an example, take Jesus’ statement about “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Read Matthew 24:45-47.) We understood that the “arriving” mentioned in verse 46 was linked to the time when Jesus came to inspect the spiritual condition of the anointed in 1918 and that the appointment of the slave over all the Master’s belongings occurred in 1919. (Mal. 3:1) However, a further consideration of Jesus’ prophecy indicates that an adjustment in our understanding of the timing of certain aspects of Jesus’ prophecy is needed. Why so? 18 In the verses that lead up to Matthew 24:46, the word “coming” refers consistently to the time when Jesus comes to pronounce and execute judgment during the great tribulation. (Matt. 24:30, 42, 44) Also, as we considered in paragraph 12, Jesus’ ‘arriving’ mentioned at Matthew 25:31 refers to that same future time of judgment. So it is reasonable to conclude that Jesus’ arrival to appoint the faithful slave over all his belongings, mentioned at Matthew 24:46, 47, also applies to his future coming, during the great tribulation. * Indeed, a consideration of Jesus’ prophecy in its entirety makes it clear that each of these eight references to his coming applies to the future time of judgment during the great tribulation. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20130715/jesus-prophecy-last-days/ I am looking forward to what your final conclusion is, summarized in just a few paragraphs I hope!

It's Allen Smith speak

@James Thomas Rook Jr. Hebrews 10:26-29 explains further: "For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a burning indignation that is going to consume those in opposition. Anyone who has disregarded the Law of Moses dies without compassion on the testimony of two or three. How much greater punishment do you think a person will deserve who has trampled on the Son of God and who has regarded as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt?" And 2 Peter 2: 20-22: "Certainly if after escaping from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, their final state has become worse for them than the first. It would have been better for them not to have accurately known the path of righteousness than after knowing it to turn away from the holy commandment they had received. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire.” Self explanatory I would say

I find that once we have covered all there is to cover about a certain subject some of us (me included) resort to silliness as a way of concluding and signalling that anything else added will probably just be blah blah. But on that note, and contrary to what I have just said (lol) I would like to add a couple of things which no one explicitly mentioned although it was alluded to by True Tom, and that is the amateur awfulness of the actual website that this information came from. I have seen many an apostate website, but this must be one of the craziest. I watched one of the videos on there; a demonstration outside a KH on memorial night, and one of the demonstrators holding up a banner with Jesus’ words at John 6:52 ““Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves” was being interviewed and asked why this was her favourite scripture. With a passionate voice, barely choking back the tears, she replied “because Jehovah’s Witnesses are meeting all over the world...and there’s very, very few people who will be partaking.... because they have been told not to. They are kept out of heaven! I want them to see that it’s ok, that Jesus said we should do it. Please do it”. Is that one of the “truths” that is being revealed*? Oh please! (Of course there were other banners including "child abuse" but all the comments were just as uninformed). Of course people are entitled to their opinion. But that website is the most awful, uninformed and boring thing I’ve ever seen. Not worth looking or listening to as there is very little that’s even relevant. It’s just filled with opinionated nonsense, and for someone to take their life over it, THAT is the real tragedy! To top it all, the caption on their front page says: “Our mission is to expose the real truth* behind the destructive cult known as the Jehovah's Witnesses. Active Witnesses are discovering the real "truth" and are now realizing that there is life after The Watchtower”. What does that even mean? (rhetorical question that doesn’t need answering) But isn't that ironic? For that young woman there was evidently no life after the Watchtower......

I can up vote my own comments too!! Look!! Maybe I will post a bikini shot of myself next!

That's the first time I've seen you up voting your own comment

You must be Allen Smith then

I know this is you pet subject @JW Insider . Maybe you should send this to the writing department at HQ . I look forward to reading more when time allows, and perhaps contributing my tuppence worth

I don't see what clergy penitence privileges has anything to do with what's under discussion. If a person has reasonable suspicions that a child may be in danger, or if there is evidence that the child has already been a victim, then that person can go to the police, regardless of any confession by the perpertraitor. But really, the other problem is, lack of transparency that WE have a problem at all, regardless how small in comparison, in our own words "one molested child is one too many".

I have to agree with you there. Just the other day a sister brought up the subject of the convention and the talk about protecting our children. She is now the third person who absolutely did not think the counsel could apply to anyone being a threat in the congregation. It didn't even cross her mind. Those very few who are aware of this problem, and those who know about the Australia Royal Commission's findings, know exactly why this particular program was included at the convention. It was a response to the problem. However, not many are actually aware of that. I have yet to see a candid admission that we do have this problem among our ranks. That is the scary part and has been suggested by many an opposer or ex-jw. I do not think much of the public is aware of this problem, as I have yet to meet someone in the ministry who brings it up. However this could change. I think that if this becomes a problem in the ministry, and brothers start reporting it, the GB might do something about it. In the mean time, have you perhaps thought of writing a letter to them, similar in content of what you wrote here? It's possible that if they receive many letters complaining about the lack of transparency regarding this issue it might hurry things along. P.S. We had hospitality lat month and the brother was telling us about one of his Bible studies, who left the catholic faith because of pedophilia. I thought, oh no, what's he going to do when he finds out we have a similar problem! I know one sister who left the truth because she said she left the Catholics because of this.....

It was from his second book, which like you, I merely skimmed over, but I seem to recall that particular part whenever issues about reporting field service and "legalism" come up, since he devotes an entire chapter to that subject. Actually, the idea and the term I got from an essay by Rodney Stark and some other guy. I don’t think the authors had your interpretation in mind (“ that these were the ones who rose to the very top of the food chain at Bethel, and I don't mean the "spiritual" food chain” ) They were referring more to someone who is not entirely serious about the religion especially the spiritual side of it. But what you say is interesting and unfortunately, as your experience shows, true. Ahem.....I hope you are wrong. I hope their climb was a spiritual one, because by your own admission you say that things have changed for the better in the last 20 years. I have my favourites in the “helpers”, although I don’t know them personally, they seem like good genuine brothers.

Hahaha, just a couple of weeks ago, when reporting my hours for last month to our group elder (a good friend as well) I told him how embarrassing my report was. I wasn't beating myself up over it though, I had my parents in town and there just wasn't the time like usual as we were making day trips to show them around etc. He told me his weren't much better as he had been on vacation for two weeks

Maybe I just couldn’t see the point of this experiment.....all I see is what I have already read from some ex-JWs , especially one ex GB member who made it seem like reporting field service created selfish, status climbing, bureaucratic butt kissers (pardon the expression). He was right to a small extend, this did apply to a few, but for the most part, those few are no longer JWs . If you are "slaving" for Jehovah for the wrong reason, it doesn’t last. You don't need to see what would happen if you stopped reporting, true motives become apparent sooner or later regardless. That was my point. Yes, I agree, and it does get on my nerves when I hear such expressions as “so many years in time in full time service" etc. as if these persons are somehow better than someone who is like the widow. But we all know that is not true. If we place too much stock on what others think then obviously that is foolish, because it is ultimately what Jehovah thinks that counts, and he knows our hearts and circumstances. Those who elevate themselves or others because of "titles" well, that's their problem....in the end they too will stand in front of Jehovah and render an account, regardless of what title they have.

I guess I was asking for this (your long post - just kidding! ) Sorry, I always seem get suspicious when people start objecting to reporting field service. Thank you for explaining. It would be dishonest of me to claim that there is never a problem such as you or Peter have mentioned. I think we are all aware that there are those who just go out to count hours etc. But I have never known a pioneer to last more than a few years just counting hours. If that was the only motivation. Because naturally there cannot be any JOY just counting hours. But to view field service as a Christian duty, and if time and circumstances permit, to do that duty full time, then I don’t see that as a problem. There are duty bound instructions in the Greek scriptures ; you must love your wife as your own body, (even if you can’ stand the sight of her, and hate your body), you must love your neighbour (even if you couldn’t care less about anyone because you are a hermit by nature). Although Jesus instructions to make disciples is not prefixed by a must, it is evidently a command. But it’s not easy for some to come out of their comfort zone and talk to complete strangers. I think we are unnecessarily placing too much importance on the question of “legality” because really, when we get down to the grass roots, if someone is only concerned with doing things to the “letter” but his doing so is not linked to faith, then that person will eventually fail and will end up with no faith. However, if we view “legality” as a means of keeping order, and not something that robs one of “Christian freedom” or as per Galatians 3, then we have the right attitude. This will separate the “free riders” from those who are genuine. The term “free rider” I have from an interesting article written by two non-Witnesses in the Journal of Contemporary Religion. Essentially, free riders eventually become nominal Witnesses at best, or totally inactive or disfellowshipped at worst. The authors make a good but obvious point: If free riders were not screened out, then we would have essentially the same situation that exists in all of Christendom’s religions, we would all end up nominal Witnesses (my words). In any case, what I am trying to say is if we have a proper view of “legality” then this should not interfere with our whole souled service for the right reasons because we would have the "law" written on our hearts.

That was my fault I'm afraid. I shouldn't mention names in that context, especially not villainous ones. I will try not to do it again.

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