Anna

One thing is being constantly oriented in this way, and the other is merely using "numbers" as a guide. A good Elder is also a good Christian, and as a good Christian he will act in a Christian way, regardless of numbers. Something tells me this discussion we’ve got going on here has much deeper significance than just having a tizzy over a few record cards and how elders respond to them. Surely we all agree that blowing ones trumpet is wrong, and condemned by Jesus on many occasions. So really, it can’t be about that, otherwise it would be too obviously hypocritical. Numbers by themselves mean something, but not everything, and as JWI points out IF as a publisher, we are merely concerned with the hours we put in, then we are blowing our own trumpet and merely performing token service. There are some who actually are like that, but eventually this backfires. I've known a few pioneers who left the truth to lead a selfish life. Maybe they had just been concerned about numbers. But we also have to be honest and admit that usually if someone is spiritually low, then the first thing (with Jehovah's Witnesses) is that field service suffers because out of the heart's abundance the mouth speaks. It was relatively easy for the disciples to be eager about spreading the word. They’d witnessed Jesus’ resurrection, were filled with holy spirit and experienced divine support. Charged with immense zeal to tell everyone about Jesus, they made Christianity spread like wildfire. BUT, the situation today is entirely different. What motivation is there to do what they did? What motivation is there to make disciples of all nations? What motivation is there to preach the good news? Not much evidently since most members of Christendom’s churches either think that this work is done, or leave it to the pastor, and if they believe there is still room to save a few souls they do not go out and teach the people the truth about God and his purpose. They barely even lead a Christian life themselves. So if reaching a certain amount of numbers, (besides the love of neighbour), is what initially motivates one to get out of bed and go out and preach, then what is wrong with that? I mean, who of us doesn't admit to occasional reluctance in going out in FS rather than shopping/ golfing/staying in bed etc. and then, and despite "wrong" motivation, being rewarded with a really good and productive call and being happy that we had made the effort, despite initial "wrong" motivation? Therefore I cannot agree with this statement: In fact, this is going the way of the sentiments of Carl Olof Jonsson, (and others) whose ideas are very similar to the rest of Christendom, and are a cop out contrary to Paul's admonition to Timothy and by extension any Christian: "Preach the word; be at it urgently in favorable times and difficult times; reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all patience and art of teaching. For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled. They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories. You, though, keep your senses in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelizer, fully accomplish your ministry"- 2Tim.4:2-5 So it seems this conversation has developed more into an excuse to take it easy as evangelizers, rather than whether it is right to record or not to record. By the way, I had a study with a lady who was amazed and impressed at the fact that every JW preaches the word, and for free! It was completely foreign to her since all she knew from her Church was organizing jumble sales (rummage sales) for charity. And that was their ministry. As a side issue, she also said that she had learned more from a few months studying the Bible with JWs than she had learned in 2 years in the church (she had previously been an atheist and "converted" because of a requirement to be able to adopt a child).

My mother in law, who is living with us, daily takes her blood pressure, glucose reading and weight and records it in a chart, so that when the doc checks on her once a month, she knows exactly where she is and can adjust any medicine acordingly. She just increased her insulin by one point and said that she wished other patients kept such a meticulous chart as it would not only make her job easier, but would ensure better care for the patient.

Someone should tell him that swallowing little blue pills will work better.

I used to when I was a teenager. Spontaneous drop ins were great as there was an excuse to take a break from homework or some other mundane task! But now our lives are so planned out, even our relaxation time, that any interruption is not really welcomed especially if you have no time to prepare physically or mentally. I thought I would personally kill the two elders that "dropped in while passing by" after I had had sinus surgery and looked like I had been severely beaten up. I was resting on my chaise, still partially drugged up, and lo and behold, I see these two guys walking past my window. Normally I wouldn't have answered the door, but the combination of the hydrocodone and my fuzzy mind, I thought it was something important, I had no idea it was going to be one of our elders and the CO! I hadn't told anyone about the surgery, and they must have wondered why I was absent for his visit, plus it was raining and they were looking for things to do, lol. Anyway, the week after that I took that elder aside and wagging my finger at him I jokingly but seriously told him to never ever do that to me again! I think because they are guys, brothers don't understand that women like to put themselves together before accepting visitors.

You don't know whether they drove past to get their time in, or because they didn't want to come unannounced. What do you know, maybe one of them went home and contacted sister so and so later. Personally, I would not want someone just popping in impromptu, especially if there is more than one person. A phone call, and maybe an appointment would be much better. You are just being critical, without knowing facts.

I suppose by spiritual ranking you mean spiritual health, which is usually an indicator of overal health and happiness. Therefor those who are spiritually low, as indicated by some factors you mention, then those need more help and encouragement than others, or as you put it, "need to be dealt with". I'm afraid you make it sound more like a science than a humanity.

It is not rocket science of course. Unfortunately there exist some members of the congregation who are a little "different" and because of that don't get included, and sometimes get outright ignored by the majority. A brother once told me about his wife and two sons. His wife had severe depression, but despite that, would come and sit at the back of the hall. From what he said, I gathered the friends pretty much ignored her. Maybe because they just didn't know what to say to her. Maybe because she was "weird". Unfortunately, it also seems that no one paid much attention to her sons either. Sadly, both her sons left the truth, and one remarked that with the true religion there is supposed to be love, and he didn't feel any love. Of course, that may have just been an excuse, but I know for a fact that there can be many cliques inside a congregation and if you happen not to fit in one, you can be very much on your own, and feel it. Cliques are a natural phenomenon. Mother's with young children hang out with other mothers with young children. Teenagers hang out with other teenagers etc. We have 3 older sisters in our congregation who ALWAYS sit together, so much so that one elder called them the 3 amigos from the platform. But there are some friends that just don't fit anywhere. That is why it's so important to "widen out" and put in special effort to include them. Which means real effort on our part, because it may mean not only inviting that "weird" family to our party, but also paying attention to them on a regular basis....

Phew!

I know.....my question just begged for that famous line. But I was actually being serious . You see we don't do that gun thing in Europe. For starters, it would be very difficult to conceal one, especially in the summer, as most bothers take their jacket off at the meeting (no air conditioning). However, I do realise, from watching dozens of westerns, that a true American cowboy doesn't go anywhere without his cowboy hat and gun. Hence I guess not all brothers in America are cowboys

If someone at the KH gave you a hug would they feel it?

I don't think I would have argued with you either!

That's what I'd like to know......maybe it's not to JWI comment....

2034 huh?

That's @TrueTomHarleysome times he's serious, other times not, and sometimes it's difficult to tell if it's fact or fiction. He's a writer you see. But I will let him explain himself, if that's what he wants to do....

I didn't know either, until a friend in Bethel told me....

@tromboneck P.S. We could stretch it even more with using the example of Br. Morris's son who I believe is 43? (or 45) and of the anointed. Assuming his son got baptized when he was 18 in 1992, just before Br. Franz dies, then he will also be among the 2nd generation. So that would "buy" us an extra 46 years (if we were to say he lived to be 89). I think 50 years is about the maximum years you can count. Of course as you say, the anointed don't have to wait until they die. But still, this gives us up to 50 years or so, where the end can come anytime between now and then.

Tom, I am assuming you are asking me this question. If you remember Br. Splane (in I can't remember which month's broadcast) explained that the "2nd" generation of anointed would have to be contemporaries of the "1st" generation. This 1st generation would have had to be anointed in 1914 . He used the example of Br. Franz who was born in 1893 and baptized April 1914. Thus, anyone who became anointed during Br. Franz's lifetime and is still alive now, is of the 2nd generation. Br. Franz died in 1992, so anyone who was of the anointed before then (and is still alive) is of the 2nd generation, because their anointed life overlapped with that of Br. Franz. The youngest members whose lives overlapped with that of Br. Franz and who are still alive and who we know of, are in their early 50's (eg. Br. Jackson and Br. Sanderson) So, in theory, this does buy us about 35 years or so, assuming both brothers live to be in their late 80's and the great tribulation hasn't come before then.

They have explained it, just like I quoted.

Our congregation is beardless, bar one sister, she's been wearing one for years. She doesn't care about the peer pressure. She's one bold character with a backbone of steel. Besides, the elders have never counseled her about it as far as I know...

But you also have to take into consideration the anointed of the overlapping generation, i.e those who were alive before the last known anointed of 1914 died. So that buys the "2nd generation" of anointed up to (approximately) 35 years.

Apparently not!

I don't think Allen liked me saying "I like it when you get carried away" he gave me a negative point, my first one on here I think!! Boo hoo, I think I'm upset an I'm going to cry, and there isn't even a crying emoticon on here! And I think the Librarian is dead, she's not been chastising anyone for changing the subject for a while now, I mean look at the previous 1914 thread, although a reconciliation has been reached, its all gone silly on there. Everything is falling apart. I think I'm going to go out in the garden, sulk, and eat worms....good night everyone

You don't need to tell us what you are going to do......why not just do it

I remember reading that on your blog some years ago! It was enjoyable. What is telling though is your comment above that "it's a little dated" Nah, that wasn't it. But seriously, it was quite a presumptuous statement. The brother in writing must have felt he had had an epiphany.

That's ok I like it when you get carried away Yes, the example you present would be perfect, because as you say, dogmatic explanations are SO susceptible to revisions, so much so that it is not really a prudent thing to do.....and references would be great for those who wish to "make sure of all things". I think @ComfortMyPeoplementioned once that it would be nice to have more of a commentary style for some of our publications and use more expressions such as "perhaps", "most likely", "it would be reasonable to conclude", ....etc. But that has not been the style of the society (although improving a little) and my theory is, and I have mentioned this before, that the GB feel like they must speak with authority, otherwise they may lose respect and trust, i.e. the parent/child model. However, this has backfired in more ways than one quite a number of times... P.S. I think one particular book had quite a few overt dogmatic statements on things that no one could possibly know for sure, it was one of the prophetic books we studied at our book study, either Isaiah, Ezekiel or Daniel. I remember one mature, studious sister got a little upset and exclaimed; how can they know that! I wish I could remember what it was...