Anna

Excellent point!

Of course the account in Genesis is scriptural, and Psalms and Peter too, as you must specifically be referring to the "thousand years as one day with Jehovah." What was unscriptural was to say that just because we had a doctrine that said that all the 7 creative days were 7,000 years each (not scriptural) for a total of 49,000 years -- that a point that was 6,000 years into the 7th of those days should be significant as a time marker related to the end of this system. That would be building an unscriptural point on top of an unscriptural point which also happens to defy Jesus words that neither he nor the angels knew the day or the hour. After all, if that 6,000 year point really had been the significant time marker for Armageddon, if we only knew how long it was between Adam's and Eve's creation -- then surely the Son and the angels would have already known that time marker. Right?

Exactly the same point I have often made. This is why I don't blame the Watchtower for the personal decisions I have made, and this is why I never complain that I lost out on anything.
Edited to add: This is why I also have never expressed any kind of resentment, because I don't feel any. Someone on here who comments very little could testify that it was just early this morning when he asked me what I thought of my time at Bethel and my complete answer was:
I enjoyed it. I learned a lot. Loved the work. I'm an artist and worked in the art department. Then I got a lot of research assignments, so I got to go to the library a lot.

I believe it was at a District Convention, and the speaker was exhorting those not to believe every dumb thing, when the he related the one about the sole Witness walking the gritty streets at night with all the Society’s money and how he escaped mugging on account of the huge angels walking alongside.
”What was he doing alone at night with all the Society’s money?” the speaker said. “I’m sure the Society would like to know.”
I’ll overlook this bit of clumsiness just once. The byline for ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates!’ is a Dylan line: “The game is the same, it’s just up on another level.”
It is best to blame things like this on autocorrect. May its inventor rot in hello.

I think we might be a little harsh in judging F. Franz for having said this, as from your statement above it was obviously nonsensical. I feel it was just his way of saying things, or maybe the way some people spoke. Although it came across as haughty, I doubt Fred's intention was to put himself above God. Who does that?

All the anointed I have ever known were elders, except for the sisters of course.

GB also needs instruction just like everyone else.  When Jesus fed the 5 thousand with two fishes and few loaves, his disciples were to form groups of people and then distribute this food to them. I have no doubt that the disciples not only distributed the food they had from Jesus, but they also ate it themselves. And Jesus did too.
‘Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word * that comes from Jehovah’s mouth.’  The GB are not exempt from this. Not only that , but in reply to Satan, about changing the stones into bread, Jesus applied this to himself too, that he relied on his Father for spiritual food. So if Jesus needs "instructions" from Jehovah, how much more so the GB?  The only one that doesn't need to be spiritually fed is Jehovah.
* the Bible

In fairness, he has downvoted me, and he will no longer have occasion to downvote @James Thomas Rook Jr.. For the next year, James says, we will hear nothing from him...zip...zero...nada...as he writes the successor to Asimov’s trilogy.
Of course, I am keeping a sharp eye out for that work. I may already have spotted it in a recent novel of a mysterious visit from a planet of apostates! “We come in peace,” they say slyly upon deboarding their craft. “See? We have shaved our beards. Take us to your leaders. How many are there of them now? Seven? Eight?” I don’t trust them.
There is a earthing character whom everyone likes named TrueTim. He approaches and extends a hand of welcome, only to be savagely rebuffed. “Get your hands off us, you damned dirty ape!” they bellow. 
 
 

... many, many years ago i heard JW people talking the same "story"here mentioned. 
You open interesting question. Why would god provide help, protection to some JW and not to other JW. When i was much younger, that means, many, many years ago ... again, i heard another "story", true or not, do not know. Some young sisters preached  from house to house (from flat to flat in building) to some young man. A re-visit was agreed. They came next time and then several men raped them.
So, again why would "angels that stand around you as protectors" in preaching service and in life, generally, allowed this crime to happened ?????????????????????????????
Is the answer? To be proved how this World is in power of evil one????... or maybe ...."People must answer on Universal Questions about god's sovereignty, ...or this .....Would people obey god from Love?????? .... or maybe ... So I reflected on all this and concluded that the righteous and the wise and what they do are in God’s hands, but no one knows whether love or hate awaits them. 2 All share a common destiny—the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad,[a] the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not........
I have seen something else under the sun:
The race is not to the swift
    or the battle to the strong,
nor does food come to the wise
    or wealth to the brilliant
    or favor to the learned;
but time and chance happen to them all.
Please, Do not joke/yoke me with this or similar answers !!!!!!!!!

Which is true. The Bible has been written for everyone's spiritual instruction. The Bible is the instructor. Without reading it, the holy spirit wouldn't be able to bring anything out.  John 14:26  "But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you". Jesus was telling his disciples they would recall everything he taught them, and they wrote it down for us, and today the holy spirit will help us to recall what we have read. Holy spirit is also needed to understand what they wrote. Not everyone understands, because if they did, we wouldn't have so many contradictory "Christian teachings" based on the same writings.
In other words:
In context, John was writing about those anointed in the first century. At that time only the Hebrew scriptures were available.  He said the holy spirit would anoint them and guide them into all the truth. They wouldn't need anyone to teach them (perhaps such as the scribes and pharisees?). This is why the apostles were able to write the Christian Greek scriptures. They were under inspiration from the holy spirit. And they were commissioned to spread the good news about the Kingdom and Jesus with the holy spirit helping them.
John, we are going round in circles because we are both talking about two different things. Maybe that’s my fault because I have not explained it very well. Yes, more will be demanded of the one who was given a bigger job. Logically! But that does not change that all people’s LIVES have the same worth. Otherwise you would be saying God discriminates on account of position, that somebody with a higher position has more value in God’s eyes than someone of a lowly position. In fact God has chosen the lowly ones to put the more important ones to shame. Intellect, power, position and wisdom are not deciding factors in whether God approves of them more than another person. God reads hearts.
I was using the word Judge as a verb, not a noun:
Judge  (noun)
1.a public official appointed to decide cases in a court of law.
2.a person who decides the results of a competition or watches for infractions of the rules.
3. a person able or qualified to give an opinion on something.
Judge (verb)
1.form an opinion or conclusion about. come to the conclusion, conclude, decide, determine; consider, believe, think, deem, view;
 
 

Which is true. The Bible has been written for everyone's spiritual instruction. The Bible is the instructor. Without reading it, the holy spirit wouldn't be able to bring anything out.  John 14:26  "But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you". Jesus was telling his disciples they would recall everything he taught them, and they wrote it down for us, and today the holy spirit will help us to recall what we have read. Holy spirit is also needed to understand what they wrote. Not everyone understands, because if they did, we wouldn't have so many contradictory "Christian teachings" based on the same writings.
In other words:
In context, John was writing about those anointed in the first century. At that time only the Hebrew scriptures were available.  He said the holy spirit would anoint them and guide them into all the truth. They wouldn't need anyone to teach them (perhaps such as the scribes and pharisees?). This is why the apostles were able to write the Christian Greek scriptures. They were under inspiration from the holy spirit. And they were commissioned to spread the good news about the Kingdom and Jesus with the holy spirit helping them.
John, we are going round in circles because we are both talking about two different things. Maybe that’s my fault because I have not explained it very well. Yes, more will be demanded of the one who was given a bigger job. Logically! But that does not change that all people’s LIVES have the same worth. Otherwise you would be saying God discriminates on account of position, that somebody with a higher position has more value in God’s eyes than someone of a lowly position. In fact God has chosen the lowly ones to put the more important ones to shame. Intellect, power, position and wisdom are not deciding factors in whether God approves of them more than another person. God reads hearts.
I was using the word Judge as a verb, not a noun:
Judge  (noun)
1.a public official appointed to decide cases in a court of law.
2.a person who decides the results of a competition or watches for infractions of the rules.
3. a person able or qualified to give an opinion on something.
Judge (verb)
1.form an opinion or conclusion about. come to the conclusion, conclude, decide, determine; consider, believe, think, deem, view;
 
 

Exact same thing that Allen Smith accused me of stating, too. It's still just as untrue. Fred Franz did not endorse the assumption of the end of the world in 1975. I've sometimes been the first to correct that false notion when naive opposers have made such a claim about Fred Franz on this very forum. For Fred Franz it was not about him endorsing 1975. Fred Franz considered it "an appropriate time for God to act" based on the unscriptural idea he held at the time that the creative days must have each been 7,000 years long, and that God's great rest day, should appropriately include the 1,000 year reign and still end end within a very short period of time after the year 2975. (The year 2975 was listed in the chart in the 1966 book, "Life Everlasting In the Freedom of the Sons of God.") The Watchtower that same year said:
*** w68 8/15 pp. 499-500 pars. 30-33 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man’s existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah’s loving and timely purposes.
But it was always more about the closeness to 1975, since 1975 marked the 6,000th year of that 7,000 year period. You might be aware that I've been consistent about that point all along on this forum. 1975 got emphasized because of that available point of measurement, yet it was NEVER stated that the world would end in 1975, nor that Armageddon or the end of this system would occur in that year. The point was that it MIGHT, which was a very true statement; we had no reason to believe it couldn't. And we had every reason to be extra alert because we were given many reasons to believe that the end of the system must have been about to occur, not necessarily in 1975, but at least in the decade of the 1970's. From just before the 1970's started, right up until early in the year 1975, the year was emphasized because it was "Biblical" date in a sense, but no one ever said that the end could not come before 1975, or even a few years after 1975.
Combined with our view of world events at the time, this made sense and many statements were made that would convince a normal person that Armageddon could come in 1975 or within a matter of months, not years, beyond 1975.
*** w68 8/15 p. 499 par. 30 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.
To a careful reader, this statement says that at the most we had about until October 1977 until we entered the last thousand years of that "rest period" which would (appropriately and lovingly and purposefully) run parallel with the thousand year reign of Christ. (Because after 1977 it would now no longer just be a measure of months, but years, in the plural, and we had just been told that it may be weeks or months, but NOT YEARS.) Then a small note in the same Watchtower reminded us that another factor might add or subtract 6 months to that limit. This could potentially have pushed that maximum limit out until April 1978. 
This explains why the talks, the Awake! and Watchtower magazine covers, Circuit Assembly lapel badge messages, and even Watchtower subscription campaigns (in the late 60s and early 70s) made several references to the "mid-70s," "the decade of the 1970's," "What will the 1970's bring?" "Who will conquer the world in the 1970's?" etc.
*** w71 9/15 p. 561 pars. 10-12 Set Apart from the World ***
With populations exploding all over the earth, many nations now stand at the brink of starvation, and disaster is predicted by experts for the mid-1970’s. Rather than fit in with political promises of a bright, materialistic tomorrow, this devastation on earth fits Jehovah’s prophecies on mankind’s waywardness in the “last days.” . . .  And now, as we enter the 1970’s, an astonishing picture presents itself.
*** w69 11/1 p. 668 How to Avoid Regrets ***
Just as we looked back over the past five years, let us look five years into the future. That will be the year 1974. What will we be regretting then? What are we doing right now, or failing to do now, that years from now we will wish we had done or had done differently? Jehovah has provided sufficient information so that we can definitely know the trend of future events. His Word reveals that we are without question fast approaching the end of this entire wicked system of things. (Matt. 24:3-14; 2 Tim. 3:1-5; 1 John 2:17) . . .
So when the end of this system of things soon comes, what will be our greatest need?
But it was not even a new point about the end of the 6,000 years ending in the 1970's:
*** w74 8/15 p. 507 No Spiritual “Energy Crisis” for Discreet Ones ***
In 1943 the Watch Tower Society’s book “The Truth Shall Make You Free” did away with the nonexistent extra 100 years in the period of the Judges and placed the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence in the 1970’s. It also fixed the beginning of Christ’s presence, not in 1874, but in 1914 C.E.
Back then (in 1943), the end of 6,000 years was not 1975, but 1976. And it was also not a new point to discuss the gap between Adam's creation and Eve's creation that could effect the expectation of the 1,000 year reign starting immediately that year. The only difference was that all the arguments were for a longer time gap between Adam and Even, and by 1968, all the arguments were for a shorter time gap between Adam and Eve.
*** w55 2/1 p. 95 Questions From Readers ***
. . . six thousand years of God’s rest day would be ending in the fall of 1976. However, from our present chronology (which is admitted imperfect) at best the fall of the year 1976 would be the end of 6,000 years of human history for mankind, 6,000 years of man’s existence on the earth, not 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh seven-thousand-year period. Why not? Because Adam lived some time after his creation in the latter part of Jehovah’s sixth creative period, before the seventh period, Jehovah’s sabbath, began.
Why, it must have taken Adam quite some time to name all the animals, as he was commissioned to do. Further, it appears from the New World Bible Translation that, even while Adam was naming the animals, other family kinds of living creatures were being created for Adam to designate by name. (Gen. 2:19 footnote d, NW) It was not until after Adam completed this assignment of work that his helpmate Eve was created. Since God created nothing new whatever on the seventh day, Eve must have been created on the sixth day; and this the divine record confirms in its account of the sixth day: “God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them.”—Gen. 1:27, NW.
The very fact that, as part of Jehovah’s secret, no one today is able to find out how much time Adam and later Eve lived during the closing days of the sixth creative period, so no one can now determine when six thousand years of Jehovah’s present rest day come to an end. Obviously, whatever amount of Adam’s 930 years was lived before the beginning of that seventh-day rest of Jehovah, that unknown amount would have to be added to the 1976 date.
This was the big difference in emphasis about 1975. Note, how every point of "delay" above is refuted just 13 years later:
*** w68 8/15 pp. 499-500 pars. 30-33 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the “sixth day,” which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam’s 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or “day” ended, and how long Adam lived into the “seventh day.” And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.
31 In regard to Adam’s creation it is good to read carefully what the Bible says. Moses in compiling the book of Genesis referred to written records or “histories” that predated the Flood. The first of these begins with Genesis 1:1 and ends at Genesis 2:4 with the words, “This is the history of the heavens and the earth . . . ” The second historical document begins with Genesis 2:5 and ends with verse two of chapter five. Hence we have two separate accounts of creation from slightly different points of view. In the second of these accounts, in Genesis 2:19, the original Hebrew verb translated “was forming” is in the progressive imperfect form. This does not mean that the animals and birds were created after Adam was created. Genesis 1:20-28 shows it does not mean that. So, in order to avoid contradiction between chapter one and chapter two, Genesis 2:19, 20 must be only a parenthetical remark thrown in to explain the need for creating a “helper” for man. So the progressive Hebrew verb form could also be rendered as “had been forming.”—See Rotherham’s translation (Ro), also Leeser’s (Le).
32 These two creation accounts in the book of Genesis, though differing slightly in the treatment of the material, are in perfect agreement with each other on all points, including the fact that Eve was created after Adam. So not until after this event did the sixth creative day come to an end. Exactly how soon after Adam’s creation is not disclosed. “After that [Adam and Eve’s creation] God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.” (Gen. 1:31) After the sixth creative day ends, the seventh one begins.
33 This time between Adam’s creation and the beginning of the seventh day, the day of rest, let it be noted, need not have been a long time. It could have been a rather short one. The naming of the animals by Adam, and his discovery that there was no complement for himself, required no great length of time. The animals were in subjection to Adam; they were peaceful; they came under God’s leading; they were not needing to be chased down and caught. It took Noah only seven days to get the same kinds of animals, male and female, into the Ark. (Gen. 7:1-4) Eve’s creation was quickly accomplished, ‘while Adam was sleeping.’ (Gen. 2:21) So the lapse of time between Adam’s creation and the end of the sixth creative day, though unknown, was a comparatively short period of time. The pronouncement at the end of the sixth day, “God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good,” proves that the beginning of the great seventh day of the creative week did not wait until after Adam and Eve sinned and were expelled from the Garden of Eden.

You spelled sauna wrong. I won't marry you.

“I was hanging in the suana with Fred thumbing a soggy copy of Ray’s book that Dan had squirreled out of the safe, hoping Albert wouldn’t go off on some spiel on UFOs or whatever, and that he would postpone his latest jetting around the globe gig, where he always made me ride baggage class, when...” uh oh, I’m not that sufficiently gets the job done.

I never said that I thought God's active force cannot be transmitted to humans like in ancient times,  in fact I said that of course it could and is. But it is apparent that the holy spirit doesn't help people perform some kind of miracles or see some kind of visions today. This is what Christendom claims for its saints. It doesn't seem that this is what the GB claims.
I don't think JW Insider implied the GB are self-serving. Did he?
I am thinking you mean how does this view differ from RF.  Well I don't think RF thought the GB were self-serving all the time, he did highlight their human imperfections and failings though. But really this would have only been surprising to those who thought the GB members were somehow different from all the rest of the brothers in the faith. But they give us o reason to believe they are. Apparently they themselves are domestics too.

I am sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. Can you rephrase it please?
It was an explanation of how the holy spirit works, nothing to do with not really getting the holy spirit. The holy spirit works through the Bible. It is not a tongue of fire on top of your head like it was in the 1st Century.
I don't think anyone is disputing that God gave the apostles  power of healing and removing demons. But those days are gone. I am not saying Jehovah couldn't make this happen again, but He obviously has not chosen to do that in our day.
Everyone receiving the same holy spirit doesn't mean you have to be on the same page. That depends entirely on you and how you respond to the direction of that spirit.

You raise some good points, and they, and some other comments, have given me an idea for a topic on the JW - only closed club. So when I get a bit more time I will put something together.

I know what you mean. But I think it makes a little more sense when we whittle that number down to a few (as in feeding many through the hands of a few). More like a function performed (someone’s got to do it) rather than any superiority or specialness on anyone's part.  I think the WT that talked about the anointed wished to highlight that there is no difference between the anointed still on earth, and the earthly class, apart from their future destinations. So if there is no difference, it logically figures that they are all domestics, whether it be the anointed scattered throughout the earth, the earthly class, or the anointed members of the GB. Obviously once in heaven, they are very different from the earthly class, in every way.
A situation that I think (in my mind) kind of illustrates the “domestics/anointed/FDS rolled into one” idea is when during the memorial (I am only using the memorial for the purpose of an example, not any significance that it is the memorial) emblems are passed around. Towards the end, the attendants who have been passing the emblems around also need the emblems to be passed to them.  All this is done in a symbolic way of course, but the point is that their function as emblem distributors is just a logistical function to get the emblems from platform, to one row to the next, and then back to the platform. This action or job does not include the symbolic observation of the emblems on their part. I don’t know if I have explained this very well, but I am sure you will let me know if I’m not making any sense at all

Yep do it in secret. Just like the GB does.   

That's how I understand it. Basically, I feel that this "method" applies to any true Christian, whether anointed or not, and no need to be a member of the FDS either. The holy spirit is there for anyone who asks for it. But I  believe someone, a body, has to have the job of dispensing Bible truths, or food at the proper time if you will. I know you feel a bit differently about it. But it makes logical sense to me. Do I think that this "body" might or should receive a little bit more direction from the holy spirit than anyone else? On account of the job they do, it would seem reasonable that they might/should. Of course if Jehovah could make the stones cry out, then he can easily use a a group of people to do the same. Do I think this has been the case? To the exclusion of bad mistakes, I would say, in certain circumstances, yes. I feel certain he has blessed the effort of those who promoted Bible truths.  But He has obviously allowed blunders to be made as well. The GB are convinced they are a tool in God's hands, and I honestly cannot see why they couldn't be. As for "feeling special" about a decision, I think I prefer to leave that to the Mormons or Born Again Christians

The earth is a big place, I would assume anointed members like to live in their place of choice. Or do you think they should all live in a compound?
That's utter nonsense. The anointed are free to do as they wish, like any other member of the congregation. Their identity is revealed, whether they like it or not, when they partake of the emblems at the memorial. 
More nonsense. They can dispense as much spiritual food as they like, to anyone they like.  Throw them out? What, where, how? Such nonsense....
 

An interesting point, because we (some of us) tended to defend the idea (GB=FDS) by saying that it never made that much sense that all of the anointed would be both domestics and FDS. Yet here we are right back with one of the original problems with the doctrine that I, at first, thought had been overcome.

That's how I understand it. Basically, I feel that this "method" applies to any true Christian, whether anointed or not, and no need to be a member of the FDS either. The holy spirit is there for anyone who asks for it. But I  believe someone, a body, has to have the job of dispensing Bible truths, or food at the proper time if you will. I know you feel a bit differently about it. But it makes logical sense to me. Do I think that this "body" might or should receive a little bit more direction from the holy spirit than anyone else? On account of the job they do, it would seem reasonable that they might/should. Of course if Jehovah could make the stones cry out, then he can easily use a a group of people to do the same. Do I think this has been the case? To the exclusion of bad mistakes, I would say, in certain circumstances, yes. I feel certain he has blessed the effort of those who promoted Bible truths.  But He has obviously allowed blunders to be made as well. The GB are convinced they are a tool in God's hands, and I honestly cannot see why they couldn't be. As for "feeling special" about a decision, I think I prefer to leave that to the Mormons or Born Again Christians

The earth is a big place, I would assume anointed members like to live in their place of choice. Or do you think they should all live in a compound?
That's utter nonsense. The anointed are free to do as they wish, like any other member of the congregation. Their identity is revealed, whether they like it or not, when they partake of the emblems at the memorial. 
More nonsense. They can dispense as much spiritual food as they like, to anyone they like.  Throw them out? What, where, how? Such nonsense....
 

Yes, that is truly sad. It helps me to think of a few scriptures, this one particularly with reference to to the conscientious objectors:
"For it is agreeable when someone endures hardship and suffers unjustly because of conscience toward God. For what merit is there if you are beaten for sinning and you endure it? But if you endure suffering because of doing good, this is an agreeable thing to God". (1Peter 2:19)
For God is not unrighteous so as to forget your work and the love you showed for his name by ministering and continuing to minister to the holy ones. (Hebrews 6:10)
And these in general:
"Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we will receive heavier judgment". (James 3:1) and  
"But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him" Luke 12:48
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of the Christ, so that each one may be repaid according to the things he has practiced while in the body, whether good or bad". 2 Corinthians 5:10
"For the true God will judge every deed, including every hidden thing, as to whether it is good or bad". (Ecclesiastes 12:14)
"So, then, each of us will render an account for himself to God" (Romans 14:12) etc...