TrueTomHarley

“Fearing” that something will happen is much less solid than it having happened ”Allegedly” fearing it is a further qualification still. Not exactly solid ground you are on, is it, lady? There is a full court press on, to be sure. If they prove as toothless as your allegations, there is nothing to fret over. https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/03/a-class-action-suit-in-quebec.html

In time, when a few such fishing expeditions turn up nothing, we can expect such clarifications as in the May 2019 Watchtower to carry the day. https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/forums/topic/77381-the-reproach-of-child-sexual-abuse-falls-on-the-abuser/

How can you be so dense? It can be only willfull. When you read secularly how early Christians spread their faith far and wide throughout the then-known world, do you write the source to point out that it was not really they that did it, but God? Answering your previous question, I begin to “glean” from your comments that there is almost nothing about Jehovah’s Witnesses that you agree with and that your entire representation here is a fraud.

This is true of anyone running any sort of substantial organization This statement also means that they may not, and so is only laying the groundwork for another one of Witness’ vitriolic rants. This is because ‘you must not muzzle the ox while it is threshing’ This is because you have to go see work that you are overseeing This is because they may not know their way around. It will hardly do to arrive late at the meeting to direct kingdom interests because you took a wrong turn at the Seven Eleven. Oh, all right! Make them hitchhike.

Well...you remind me of a government wonk—a person totally obsessed with the minutia of government that interest most people barely at all. Do you actually have any other beliefs other than that the bad boys have closed you out? Seriously. I have no idea what you believe on any other subject. You do not speak of anything else, and it may be only an assumption that you stand for many of the things that Jehovah’s Witnesses stand for. Any remark about the worldwide united preaching campaign that the GB has organized and coordinated prompts nothing but derision from you, so that one wonders whether you think proclaiming the kingdom is even a good thing—maybe the kingdom is in our hearts. Any remark about urgency of the last days similarly prompts equal bile from you, so that once again, one wonders whether you think there will even be an end of this system—perhaps you are among those who think that Christianity will yet convert the world. The point is that nobody has any idea what you think other than that the current governing arrangement should be dynamited, even though most JWs think it is doing an overall pretty good job. Unless I am speaking with those who think that all good people go to heaven—and they are becoming a rarety in these parts—I don’t even mention that a tiny number of humans will one day be part of the heavenly government. Few care. It is not a primary concern for most people. For you it appears to be the ONLY concern, but for most people the hope of everlasting life on earth is what grabs them. That there will be some humans to rule as kings with Christ in heaven is a detail for most people to be filled in later. It is just the same regarding human governments. Few people are overly concerned about the intricacies of government. Only the wonks are. You are talking past most of us. Plus, your incessant condemnation of the GB for any problems encountered today gives the impression that you think the Lord’s words are wrong—that without the GB to louse things up the world would embrace Christianity, rather than hate it as it does.

What’s wrong? Ribbon on your typewriter run out of ink? It is as I’ve said before. When the GB discusses scripture, I get the sense of the woman battling with the invisible spirit forces. When Witness discusses scripture, I get the sense of of eavesdropping on a family feud, the black sheep of the family torturing every verse to advance the complaint that the 8 anointed have done them dirty. There is something very strange about these constant vitriolic complaints with intermittent warnings that ”JWs, this means your lives.” It’s as though the Cabinet official of the Office of Widgets cries that Trump is doing him dirty and expects me to get all worked up over that, as if I have the resources to police these things. It may be that when I was asked: ‘do you mean to write a book about this “crazy anointed woman?” I should have said ‘yes’ and let that be the end of it.

People can partake of the emblems for several reasons. The first to consider is the correct one, from the JW point of view—that one truly has been called to heaven in order to rule with Christ, to be one of the “kings who will rule over the earth.” But there are other reasons. The Watchtower has suggested that emotional or mental unbalance can play a role, if someone has undergone significant loss or stress. Newness can play a role, if a person has not completely shaken off the church model that all good people go to heaven. Spirit influences can come into play—the “historian” anointed came from a family in known for clairvoyance, and his father (grandfather?) had been a much-in-demand water witch. What is spiritual disturbance and what is psychological interference? Since the beginning of time, believers of anything have reported strong, even overwhelming, religious experiences. It’s not for me to figure it out. None of the above are going to partake unworthily, for that is a major no-no that all of them would respect. All will truly believe it, even if it is not actually so for some. The trick, then, becomes how to separate the wheat anointed from the chaff anointed so that the spacey LSD brother does not end up running the worldwide organization. All things being equal, the present GB members are just as likely as anyone else to be mistaken in their belief that they are anointed. But all things are not equal, and this is why the present arrangement of the GB comprising the slave in its totality is such a good one. They have been tested for decades prior to being invited as a GB members. They have spent a life-time in full-time service to God. Most of them have served in settings more lowly than those of the ones they are later to lead. They have proven their humility and their ability to get along, working shoulder to shoulder with Christians from all backgrounds. It is entirely different from simply partaking in the Boise, Idaho congregation and then expecting that everyone will begin deferring to you on that account. (In the event that there are any anointed in the Boise Idaho congregation, rest assured that I just pulled that location out of my hat.) Those truly anointed over the model that I have come to believe is correct do not mutter that the wicked 8 have stolen their thunder. Their stature in whatever congregation that they are in has not changed. They were never in it for the recognition. They look upon their assignment primarily as a future role. For now, they are undergoing training much like Moses underwent after bumping off the Egyptian taskmaster. He thought then that his time of shining brightly as the sun had arrived. It hadn’t. It would arrive in the future, but only if he submitted to the training of the field. That is how the true anointed can be expected to behave, in my view. Their declaring abroad the excellencies will be in complete cooperation with those now taking the lead in that work—even my LSD spacey anointed one understood that. In my estimation, he thereby meets a major description of anointing more so than the ones who separate and bellyache, yet offer nothing as a substitute. Has Witness truly experienced the heavenly calling? Maybe. But let her conduct herself a little bit more dignified than the Democrat pundit constantly complaining that wicked Trump stole the election that should have gone another way. Even in the heavenly assignment—I mean, who can say?—but it seems that there will have to be some delegation of authority. Or will it be an earth carved up into 144000 fiefdoms, with each anointed overseer ever sensitive to his fellow anointed trying to pull rank, trying to demonstrate that they are the greatest. Shouldn’t they be expected to have moved on from that model?

“American studies show that Jehovah's Witnesses have the highest turnover of any religion,1 as supported by Watchtower figures presented in this section.” Easily compensated for by the high participation rate of those who stick. After all, the members of a great many denominations may not actually leave, but how would you know if they did?

“We made Miller the number 2 most popular brand in the country and everybody said ‘Nobody will drink that stuff.’” - Mickey Spillane

They have quarter walls on the platform of the new Kingdom Hall I visited. Most taking the platform would walk up from the side, disappear behind one end of the wall and then reappear from the other end to take the speaker position. I only saw one person do it differently. It is just a small thing. Hardly worth mentioning. Petty, anyone? I ought to rise about the temptation to say anything. But.....on the other hand........ IT DROVE ME NUTS! Why would anyone do it that way? I know how this happens. Someone starting doing it thinking it looked more “dignified.” Others thought it was a cool idea, and followed suit. That is how these things work. There is never a ‘rule’ though occasionally there is an unwritten rule which you cope with by just ignoring it. The way you stop this nonsense is by deliberately flying in the face of it. Structures vary, but usually there is but a single step from the auditorium to the platform—it runs the width of the platform—and you mount that step any old place that you happen to be—let the stuffy other brothers think that you are barbaric if they must. What is more likely to happen is that they will come to think the other way is a little silly. They see it done that way at the Assembly Hall and they try to carry over the experience to the Kingdom Hall. At the Assembly Hall, that seats 1000, well—of course! Just like in any auditorium, you have to enter through a door in the back and then come on stage behind a curtain or a half wall. You can’t just take stage directly from the auditorium because you would have to clamber up a 2 or 3 foot wall, and that would look ridiculous. Entering from behind the short walls at the Kingdom Hall makes just the opposite impression. The walls are convenient places to store junk behind, most likely—unused mike stands and the like. It’s not for a pretentious means for entry when you can just walk up easy as pie from where ever you are! “Sure!” says my wife. “You always know just the way it should be. Of course! Everyone else is doing it wrong. Only Tom knows the way to do it!” Finally, that woman is catching on! DO IT RIGHT, BROTHERS!

We would find some of those cans—the kids and me—when we hiked the Allegheny trails and got points for each pop or beer can that we found. Extra points awarded for one of these old-timers. Is the front molar I found in the Miller Lite can yours?

Is this the one you bought as the final hurrah before the system was to end but then didn’t?

Focus on the purpose of the anointing. They have a lot of work to do, if this verse is any indication. Has the GB been doing that work? No matter how much one may dislike them, one will not dispute that they have organized a massive worldwide preaching campaign of a unifying message. Have others done the same? There are many faiths that evangelize, but almost always their message ends where the JW message begins: that there is a God who has arranged that our sins be forgiven. Do they “declare abroad the excellencies?” What excellencies? They just declare abroad that he exists. More often than not, they declare that Jesus IS God. When the GB discusses Revelation and like passages, I get the sense of massive super-human empires battling it out—beasts, women, false prophets, merchants of the earth. It doesn’t mean that the GB is right in every particular, but then, they say as much in the introduction to the Revelation Climax book. When Witness discusses Revelation and like passages, I get the sense of eavesdropping on a family feud—the “good” anointed redirecting every verse to show out the “bad” anointed have outmaneuvered them, have hogged all the glory, and are living the good life on the backs of the “oppressed” sheep. It gets old. Really? It’s a little late to be changing horses midstream, methinks. Are we really so very far from the end of this system of things that we can lollygag along and wait for major overhaul of everything? For that matter, does Witness even think that there is an end fast approaching? She has never really offered any specifics on spiritual matters, other than the “bad” anointed have done dirty to the “good” anointed, for which they should be hung high. Me—I’ve got a good gig going with these guys. I get significant support both spiritually and logistically. Why on earth would I trade that in to side with “renegade anointed” if they are that, who connect with each other via Skype, and who have offered little more than blistering criticism of those who I think are overall doing pretty well? Witness is frequently imploring me to go back and reread her words so as to give her feedback—what did I “glean” from this or that speech? She suspects I didn’t read her messages thoroughly. It’s a little difficult to partake of a meal when it is doused in vinegar. If she didn’t continually malign those taking the lead she might find me more receptive to her words. In fact, maybe it is that expectation—that you can douse the meal with vinegar yet still expect it to be savored that makes me wonder if she is not, in her words, “this crazy anointed woman.” I can categorically say that she is not, for if she is crazy, then she is not anointed, and if she is anointed, then she is not crazy. If she is both, then there is reason to think that the new system will be as nutso as this one, and perhaps it is time for me to check out now and join Srecko.

It is still jumbled & incomplete. Are we to take from this that men not anointed cannot be highly spiritual & upright? What? How would you hear of it other than whether they have partaken of the emblems? If others have witnessed it, do you doubt their reports? Are you seriously suggesting that, in an organization that makes such a big deal about being anointed, the ones taking “control” of the worldwide organization would not partake of the emblems? And if they have, is there reason to doubt their calling any more than yours? I have never witnessed you partaking, either.

I missed that, and you are right. It changes the nature of the comment. The ol pork chop is right. I do read too fast sometimes & seize upon things that I read too much into. Sorry.

They never take the signs down out in the backwoods. From last year:

Fred, from the group home, would hug complete strangers in public. It was one of his goals (set by others, not by himself) for him to cut it out, but I used to just keep an eye out for him—most people were not offended at all. They could see in a heartbeat his condition, but there were some who did recoil, and these I interceded for. There is an autistic son of one in the congregation whose care prevents either from attending too much. There are several in the tow of a sister who, along with her husband, takes several in as guardians. Sometimes you see them. Sometimes you don’t. I spend time with them all when they appear, though as you said, most don’t. I probably wouldn’t either if I did not have the background that I wrote of. Perhaps you would not either. I’ll come back to this subject. You’ve touched some fine memories.

The question that a more humble person might ask is: “Are you questioning that I am anointed?” The only qualification you have displayed for being anointed is to say that you are. Nice work if you can get it. Am I questioning it? No. However - and this is key - neither am I confirming it. How would I know? I can only observe that your input does not square very well with what I have come to expect of ones anointed. Let me tell you of my experience with those who have partaken of the emblems. There were 5 of them in a city congregation I once attended—I almost think 6, though they did not all overlap. This was extremely unusual. It was rare for a congregation to have even one anointed. Were they all truly anointed? Again, how would I know? However, the demeanor of some gave serious pause for thought. One chugged the wine at a Memorial celebration in defiance of ones who she thought might be doubting her calling. Another one would stare in the most spacey way and instantly made anyone uncomfortable. He was part of a large influx of interconnected young people in the early 70s that came into the truth and he was legendary among them for having had consumed great quantities of LSD. I actually came to like him because he never ever was critical and his response to anyone that was was that they should allow love to smooth it all over, but one could only get so close to him because he weirded everyone out. I think I would be better at it today and I wish I still had the opportunity. Were these two truly anointed, in your estimation? There were three others. All began partaking ‘on my watch.’ I liked them all, or at least did at one time. One who used to be very hospitable, ever quick to extend herself for others, in time became so critical of congregation matters that the fifth anointed (I’ll get to her presently) ceased association with her. Another, prior to his partaking, had been appointed an elder, and the C.O, in observing that he met the scriptural qualifications, nonetheless confided to the BOE: “He’s not the most humble person in the world.” He used to impress impressionable one’s by stating something or other from history, and if they would question it, he would assert that he knew “because he was an historian.” In time I told him to knock it off. He was a history buff. An “historian” was a recognized, usually published, authority, and the only one who recognized his authority was him. He actually is published now, I am told. He has authored a few apostate books. Before leaving the congregation (I honestly don’t remember the circumstances of either—only that I was not a part of it) he became such a close associate of the aforementioned anointed (had one ‘recruited’ the other?) that there was talk of immorality—both were married—but to my knowledge that was never proven. The fifth anointed sister I gave the memorial talk for. Her son said prior, when I asked him for input, that he wanted her heavenly hope to stand out. I said ‘no can do’ but then assured him that he would be happy with the talk, which he was. I observed somewhere along the line that so-and-so gave indication of the heavenly calling and that some of us might scratch our heads and say ‘how can that be?’ My answer: Be there in the new system and then you will find out—we don’t have to know everything. She had been out of the truth for many years, stumbled over a matter that could be expected to stumble more persons than not. She began partaking soon after being reinstated. She was a family friend, as were the preceding two. If I was given the assignment to rate them, she would have been the closest one to genuine—maybe they all were, or maybe none of them were—but she would have been the closest in my estimation. if you were invited to her home, you knew that you were in for a scriptural discussion, and yet the impression she leant was totally unlike you (this is a little unfair, because I know you only through your posts, whereas I knew her in person) in that she avoided any impression of being full of herself or of instructing. Her demeanor was more like that of a coach. She was fully cooperative with congregational arrangements in every way, unlike the preceding two, but similar to the LSD-imbibing one. I’ll go one more, from the sister congregation. This was an elderly sister also model in her speech and conduct. Nobody questioned her anointing, though I learned much later to my surprise that her own fleshly sister had her doubts. I don’t want to harp on the following because everyone is capable of saying some dumb and pious thing, but when I asked her to fill in for a Bible study while I was away—it was with the elderly Czech woman who I think I have told @Annaabout, the woman who, in hindsight, probably came to regard me like a grandson, and who faded from the picture just as I was getting married—she responded to an offer of refreshments by quoting Jesus: “My food is to do the will of the One who sent me.” My student kept commenting about this when I returned. “It is theater!” she sputtered. I throw the experience in because it is in accord with a tendency suspected with anointed persons to come across as pious. Or did it lend support to her sister’s suspicions that hers was not truly genuine? No idea here. But what I have been told and have come to believe about those anointed is that they do not in any way put themselves above others in the congregation, much less talk down to them. Your move, lady. (I see that you have just answered, so this comment and yours might not have any bearing upon each other)

It may be that she said something nasty to the Pres and she has been tagged for ‘Abuse.’

I also worked with people with special needs. It was the most emotionally rewarding job that I have ever had, https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2008/06/a-willowbrook-l.html

Never have I seen anyone so in love with the notion of instructing others, who writes a long passage & and subsequently comes back to it, asking what the reader gleaned from it—never for one second doubting his obligation to read it, nor the certainty that the words constitute pearls of wisdom that would bestow light if only...if only...the reader would let himself be molded by them. who was so ready to regard me as her star pupil when I but asked a few simple questions, and was so crushed to learn that it was not so. I’m asking the questions here, ma’m. As naturally as the sun rises, you assume the right to hurl the most incendiary charges at faithful men striving mightily and delivering much amidst continual and often unhinged opposition. You become so nasty at times that even @The Librarian (that old hen) has arisen to rebuke you. And only after a single year in the JW organization! It took but a single year to claim the heavenly calling & to shortly thereafter know that everyone else was doing it wrong & that YOU could instruct the sheep better than they! It’s unbelievable! I’m asking the questions here.

“A patient man am I, down to my fingertips. The sort who never would, ever could let an insulting remark escape his lips.”

Do you feel that God’s true “organization” manifests itself in any way on earth?

I didn’t say that. However, I have no such plans at present. Interaction on this thread is all that I have in mind right now. Maybe something on my own blog as well, but if so, names will be changed. And possibly a few hundred million flyers printed up and dropped by blimp over major metropolitan areas. Other than that, nothing at all. As you know, I am never mean-spirited. And whenever there are exceptions to that rule, it is only like tribulation that lasts ten days.

If you do know then you are doing better than I. Trying to get my head around it, for now. I admit that it makes no sense to me. You are very critical of the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Is there anything about organization that you like?