TrueTomHarley

Lap dance all you want, Jack. You have moved on, so it is hardly your concern.

Yes and no.
Yes, in that you can reach a point, per your own judgement, where you say: 'I've pretty much done all I can do as a teacher. The public Bible studies at the Kingdom Hall represent your best path forward at this point.'
No, in that you don't write anyone off. You can visit forever if you see fit, bringing specific points, bits of encouragement, or invitations, to your student's attention. You just may feel free to ratchet down your attention for a given person, but you never have to vacate entirely unless you want to.

I'm going to have another go at this.
I do not think that 'TrueTom vs the Apostates!' is a great book in its writing. It is adequately written. It gets the job done. It is even a little haphazard in its organization. Another person might do it better.
However, it is a great book in that it is the only one of its kind. And it should not be. There should be more, but there are not. I am convinced that there are many friends and onlookers who need such material. Maybe there shouldn't be, but there are.
@JW Insider, more than any single person, helped me in my writing of it. His input was very slight, no more than a sporadic word or two on occasion, sometimes publicly, sometimes not. Where I was too aggressive or undiscerning, his observations put me back on track. Where I was flat-out wrong on a few things, he bluntly corrected me and thereby made my work more effective. He knows where I am coming from. Where I ignored him I afterwards came to realize why I shouldn't have.
Whether it is wise for him to carry on at such length as he does here I do not know. But I do know why he does it and why he does it the way he does it. I respect him for it, and I cannot detect an ill motive. That is not to say that he might not be loony, but in my case, he has proven more valuable than he knows.

Hopefully that has not happened.
Without weighing in on whether he is bad association or not, he is one of the very few who offered constructive criticism of CSA matters. Whether he should have done so on this forum is a matter for others to haggle over, but the fact is that he did and I benefited from it.
For example, the Philadelphia.com slimed JWs with a front page lead that must have been seen by everyone in the city and well beyond. It was too much for me.  I subsequently declared war on this sort of thing. I submitted a reply to them. This was a big deal for me, to reply at length to a prominent source and tell them they owed it to their readers to publish my reply as prominently as they published the slam. There was a chance that they would do so. I didn’t want to screw it up. I ran it by JWI privately, knowing he has Bethel experience, he reasons well, and he wants to see CSA matters resolved WITHOUT burning Bethel to the ground. (the solution of the opposers) He did not disappoint me. He made valuable suggestions, most of which I accepted.
What follows is what I sent to the Philly source, followed by the refined version that is an early chapter of TTvtAp.
https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2018/07/an-open-letter-to-the-philadelphia-inquirer-because-they-did-not-acknowlege-much-less-print-the-sent.html
https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/01/four-incendiary-articles.html
So he helped me. A lot. I don’t care if he is bad association or not. If I was worried about bad association, I would not be here. Nor would you.
It takes a while to know the players & you do not know them yet. Both of us worked very hard to retain him on this forum. Besides, I am not sure that he is gone. As for JWI, he spots him everywhere as does the groundhog his shadow.
 I pleaded with @The Librarian (that old hen) that if for nothing else, Allen should be honored because he proves the resurrection.
As to your point about John being more obnoxious and still remaining here, THAT point is certainly valid.

In fact, the problem is solved and everyone not completely unhinged knows it.
Witnesses have always been free to report. The unsettling aspect of the CSA cases is that many chose not to do it because they thought they might be bringing reproach on God’s name. Now, beyond any possibility of misunderstanding, it is spelled out for them and for elders that they are not. The problem is solved.
There are always going to be ‘What ifs.’ At some point one must have some confidence in the power of parents to be concerned for their children. It is not easy to get between a mama bear and her cub. You make it sound like a walk in the park. Reporting to authorities has now been endorsed. The two witness rule becomes irrelevant, as it always was to outside authorities 
In the rare situation that nobody has payed the slightest attention to Christian values taught, if wrath or revenge is feared, mama bear may have to flee the house. This has always been the case with in abusive families. The point is that she now knows she has a green light to do it, and can summon whatever authority there is for domestic violence and she need not think she is failing God, the congregation, her family, or anyone else.
Sometimes I think that these virulent opposers will not be satified until there is a cop stationed in every Witness home.

He does not. He would like to, but his last two books, because they address things important, will always be available free in some digital format.
Obviously, this undermines any efforts to make a living via selling books.

In fact, the problem is solved and everyone not completely unhinged knows it.
Witnesses have always been free to report. The unsettling aspect of the CSA cases is that many chose not to do it because they thought they might be bringing reproach on God’s name. Now, beyond any possibility of misunderstanding, it is spelled out for them and for elders that they are not. The problem is solved.
There are always going to be ‘What ifs.’ At some point one must have some confidence in the power of parents to be concerned for their children. It is not easy to get between a mama bear and her cub. You make it sound like a walk in the park. Reporting to authorities has now been endorsed. The two witness rule becomes irrelevant, as it always was to outside authorities 
In the rare situation that nobody has payed the slightest attention to Christian values taught, if wrath or revenge is feared, mama bear may have to flee the house. This has always been the case with in abusive families. The point is that she now knows she has a green light to do it, and can summon whatever authority there is for domestic violence and she need not think she is failing God, the congregation, her family, or anyone else.
Sometimes I think that these virulent opposers will not be satified until there is a cop stationed in every Witness home.

You have displayed that you know very little of Einstein. If you did, you would realize that my sense of humor is spot on and everyone else’s is warped.

I am ashamed. Ashamed and mortified. As ashamed as my dog was when the cops found cats on his hard drive.

This would depend on how you see the operation of the Presidency versus the Governing Body. Who is anointed, and who worked closely with the anointed enough though they were not part of the anointed class.
People seem to forget Brother F. Franz knew C.T. Russell. What CTR administrative obligations were and what he would delegate to a board of directors. Did F.Franz proofread the writing department articles to see if they were consistent with scripture, or was that a responsibility he passes on to the GB? The GB does that now.
I can recall an assembly talk where Fred stated, that's what the book says, its here in print. NO one really truly knew the Presidents just like they don't really know the GB. Those are hypotheticals by witnesses that "interact" at some point with them. Therefore no one has the right to speak about someone they truly don't know. That's the bottom line if you want to continue calling ourselves Christian.
The problem with Bethel at that time was a cleansing of apostates. Perhaps JWI lost a good friend by being disfellowshipped. But still, that's no excuse under God's law. Yes, Fred was the framer on how elders should conduct a committee to ensure the congregation would be maintained clean under scriptural bases. That didn't make him a hardnose, or an inhumane person to stick with the bylaws of scripture.
That was part of the Bethel gossip along with his ability to understand scripture. Some people thought he wasn't qualified. That was a question I asked JWI. Fred was more qualified than anyone at that time. That's why he enjoyed translating scripture into different languages.
There is far more that can be said, it would take a book to yield such information.

Yeah, @JOHN BUTLER, where you can’t come.
Nyah, Nyah, Nyah.

Yeah, @JOHN BUTLER, where you can’t come.
Nyah, Nyah, Nyah.

Okay. Still, you seem to indicate that you knew him, too. What was he like?
Yeah. That’s fair. I guess I do. I mean, he’s been where I haven’t.
Whether it’s a good idea for him to blab away as he does, I have no idea. I was livid about it at first, but I have grown used to it. The point is, he is going to do it whether I am here or not, so I just glean what I can, always keeping in mind that it is through the eyes of another. That’s why I asked about how it looks through your eyes.
I am probably one of the few here who has not read Ray’s book. I might someday but have no immediate plans. Such things are just red herrings to me, a distraction. I mean, if my books were about personalities, I would go there. But they’re not. My books are what of Jehovah’s Witnesses as a people have done, not so much the individuals in it. I tell a lot of stories, but internal ‘power struggles,’ if they are that, do not interest me.
 

Yeah, @JOHN BUTLER, where you can’t come.
Nyah, Nyah, Nyah.

Okay. Still, you seem to indicate that you knew him, too. What was he like?
Yeah. That’s fair. I guess I do. I mean, he’s been where I haven’t.
Whether it’s a good idea for him to blab away as he does, I have no idea. I was livid about it at first, but I have grown used to it. The point is, he is going to do it whether I am here or not, so I just glean what I can, always keeping in mind that it is through the eyes of another. That’s why I asked about how it looks through your eyes.
I am probably one of the few here who has not read Ray’s book. I might someday but have no immediate plans. Such things are just red herrings to me, a distraction. I mean, if my books were about personalities, I would go there. But they’re not. My books are what of Jehovah’s Witnesses as a people have done, not so much the individuals in it. I tell a lot of stories, but internal ‘power struggles,’ if they are that, do not interest me.
 

I suppose. 
But somewhere there is a story of some old-time Bethelite who, when the younger ones would start squabbling over something, would tilt back and marvel at how Jehovah was able to do SO MUCH with what little he had to work with.
I mean, there’s always going to be people. They’re always going to do things. How God pulls a rabbit out of his hat with them around I’ll never know, but he consistently does.
It’s not my area of focus, that’s all. If I was shocked at it, I wouldn’t be here.
You commented a while back about pulling back the curtain at Oz. The fact that GB members show themselves on TV indicates to me that they pull back the curtain upon themselves as well.

Are you really still in school? Well well well. Most here are far older. You express yourself uninhibitedly.
What!? A day off? For cold weather??!!!
You kids are soft!
Why, back in MY day....
#WalkFiveMiles #Uphill #BothWays.  

I suppose. 
But somewhere there is a story of some old-time Bethelite who, when the younger ones would start squabbling over something, would tilt back and marvel at how Jehovah was able to do SO MUCH with what little he had to work with.
I mean, there’s always going to be people. They’re always going to do things. How God pulls a rabbit out of his hat with them around I’ll never know, but he consistently does.
It’s not my area of focus, that’s all. If I was shocked at it, I wouldn’t be here.
You commented a while back about pulling back the curtain at Oz. The fact that GB members show themselves on TV indicates to me that they pull back the curtain upon themselves as well.

Are you really still in school? Well well well. Most here are far older. You express yourself uninhibitedly.
What!? A day off? For cold weather??!!!
You kids are soft!
Why, back in MY day....
#WalkFiveMiles #Uphill #BothWays.  

I believe it was at a District Convention, and the speaker was exhorting those not to believe every dumb thing, when the he related the one about the sole Witness walking the gritty streets at night with all the Society’s money and how he escaped mugging on account of the huge angels walking alongside.
”What was he doing alone at night with all the Society’s money?” the speaker said. “I’m sure the Society would like to know.”
I’ll overlook this bit of clumsiness just once. The byline for ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates!’ is a Dylan line: “The game is the same, it’s just up on another level.”
It is best to blame things like this on autocorrect. May its inventor rot in hello.

I believe it was at a District Convention, and the speaker was exhorting those not to believe every dumb thing, when the he related the one about the sole Witness walking the gritty streets at night with all the Society’s money and how he escaped mugging on account of the huge angels walking alongside.
”What was he doing alone at night with all the Society’s money?” the speaker said. “I’m sure the Society would like to know.”
I’ll overlook this bit of clumsiness just once. The byline for ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates!’ is a Dylan line: “The game is the same, it’s just up on another level.”
It is best to blame things like this on autocorrect. May its inventor rot in hello.

In fairness, he has downvoted me, and he will no longer have occasion to downvote @James Thomas Rook Jr.. For the next year, James says, we will hear nothing from him...zip...zero...nada...as he writes the successor to Asimov’s trilogy.
Of course, I am keeping a sharp eye out for that work. I may already have spotted it in a recent novel of a mysterious visit from a planet of apostates! “We come in peace,” they say slyly upon deboarding their craft. “See? We have shaved our beards. Take us to your leaders. How many are there of them now? Seven? Eight?” I don’t trust them.
There is a earthing character whom everyone likes named TrueTim. He approaches and extends a hand of welcome, only to be savagely rebuffed. “Get your hands off us, you damned dirty ape!” they bellow. 
 
 

I believe it was at a District Convention, and the speaker was exhorting those not to believe every dumb thing, when the he related the one about the sole Witness walking the gritty streets at night with all the Society’s money and how he escaped mugging on account of the huge angels walking alongside.
”What was he doing alone at night with all the Society’s money?” the speaker said. “I’m sure the Society would like to know.”
I’ll overlook this bit of clumsiness just once. The byline for ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates!’ is a Dylan line: “The game is the same, it’s just up on another level.”
It is best to blame things like this on autocorrect. May its inventor rot in hello.

In fairness, he has downvoted me, and he will no longer have occasion to downvote @James Thomas Rook Jr.. For the next year, James says, we will hear nothing from him...zip...zero...nada...as he writes the successor to Asimov’s trilogy.
Of course, I am keeping a sharp eye out for that work. I may already have spotted it in a recent novel of a mysterious visit from a planet of apostates! “We come in peace,” they say slyly upon deboarding their craft. “See? We have shaved our beards. Take us to your leaders. How many are there of them now? Seven? Eight?” I don’t trust them.
There is a earthing character whom everyone likes named TrueTim. He approaches and extends a hand of welcome, only to be savagely rebuffed. “Get your hands off us, you damned dirty ape!” they bellow. 
 
 

In fairness, he has downvoted me, and he will no longer have occasion to downvote @James Thomas Rook Jr.. For the next year, James says, we will hear nothing from him...zip...zero...nada...as he writes the successor to Asimov’s trilogy.
Of course, I am keeping a sharp eye out for that work. I may already have spotted it in a recent novel of a mysterious visit from a planet of apostates! “We come in peace,” they say slyly upon deboarding their craft. “See? We have shaved our beards. Take us to your leaders. How many are there of them now? Seven? Eight?” I don’t trust them.
There is a earthing character whom everyone likes named TrueTim. He approaches and extends a hand of welcome, only to be savagely rebuffed. “Get your hands off us, you damned dirty ape!” they bellow.