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Forced "new light", but only slightly


Shiwiii
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Why does it take the Inquisition into the CSA by governments around the world, lawsuits in many countries and  the threat of non-profit status in a few countries to FORCE the wt/gb to amend the CSA policy?  The article is in the May 2019 WT and the title of the article is "Love and Justice in the Face of Wickedness". 

 

 

"13 Do elders comply with secular laws about reporting an allegation of child abuse to the secular authorities? Yes. In places where such laws exist, elders endeavor to comply with secular laws about reporting allegations of abuse....So when they learn of an allegation, elders immediately seek direction on how they can comply with laws about reporting it."

 

I can see that they still won't enforce reporting to the police each and every CSA case only if required by law.  Key word is "REQUIRED" .

 

"14 Elders assure victims and their parents and others with knowledge of the  matter that they are free to report an allegation of abuse to the secular authorities. But what if the report is about someone who is a part of the congregation and the matter then becomes known in the community? Should the Christian who reported it feel that he has brought reproach on God’s name? No. The abuser is the one who brings reproach on God’s name."

 

Finally, they finally get it that it is the wrong doer who is the bad guy and not the reporter.......but, I'm sure this is just lip service. And here's why:

 

 

16 When they learn that someone in the congregation is accused of child abuse, elders endeavor to comply with any secular laws about reporting the matter, and then they conduct a Scriptural investigation. If the individual denies the accusation, the elders consider the testimony of witnesses. If at least two people—the one making the accusation and someone else who can verify this act or other acts of child abuse by the accused—establish the charge, a judicial committee is formed. 

 

And there you have it, two witness rule still in effect and no mandatory reporting of CSA unless mandated by law.

However, what is the true gain here? Not much, but some is better than nothing, the fact that whoever reports is not the bad guy, the abuser is.  What a wonderful provision made by the loving Jehoverning body. I hope that one day the gb/wt will be on par with humanity in reporting ALL accusations of CSA or any abuse for that matter. 

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Moved a bunch of posts from another thread to here. This will effect posts by @Witness, @Srecko Sostar, @Anna, @JOHN BUTLER, @TrueTomHarley, @Shiwiii.

I should have added, to the one who doesn't recognize it.   You appear to be very hopeful that these "clearly stated instructions" will be followed.  How many such instructions have been changed or co

Why the heck is WT trying to assert the clergy-penitent privilege to allow elders to NOT report to authorities? Exhibit A: (State of Delaware v. Laurel Delaware Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesse

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CSA - the acronym - should be first written out, then referred to as an acronym later. If you mean child sexual abuse you are the one to say it first.

Initialism

  1. Canadian Space Agency
  2. Confederate States of America
  3. (UK) Child Support Agency
  4. (Northern Ireland) Central Services Agency
  5. (US) combined statistical area
  6. community-supported agriculture
  7. community service announcement

and many more, e.g.  .... Standards Association/Accreditation.

 

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27 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

CSA - the acronym - should be first written out, then referred to as an acronym later. If you mean child sexual abuse you are the one to say it first.

Melinda,  Come on. This IS the wt we're talking about. Well known fact here what CSA means in wt world

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1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

Do elders comply with secular laws about reporting an allegation of child abuse to the secular authorities? Yes. In places where such laws exist, elders endeavor to comply with secular laws about reporting allegations of abuse....So when they learn of an allegation, elders immediately seek direction on how they can comply with laws about reporting it."

I can see that they still won't enforce reporting to the police each and every CSA case only if required by law.  Key word is "REQUIRED" .

You are missing the point completely.

The WT has to make this situation clear, and it has all to do with the victims /survivors rights. This is because unless there is a requirement by law for elders to report, the reporting can be left up to anyone else, the victim, the victim's parents, the victim's family or anyone who learns of the abuse as per par 14. If the law says the elders are mandated to report, then the elder has to report even if the victim, the victim's parents, the victim's family or anyone else does not want them to report it. It's the same with child protection agencies and social workers. In states or countries where those people are mandated to report, then they have to, regardless whether the client wants it or not. In fact when counseling a victim/survivor the counselor has to warn them that they will have to report anything the victim/survivor tells them. Then it is left up to the victim /survivor to disclose or not to disclose. It has everything to do with confidentiality and the rights of the victim/survivor. Not every victim/or survivor wants it reported, so if it is not mandated by law,  as an elder/counselor you are leaving that right to the victim/survivor, but in order to be able to do that, you have to be clear on what the law says first!

So again I repeat: This is because of the confidentiality and rights of the victim/survivor not because the elders are trying to get out of reporting.

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3 minutes ago, Anna said:

You are missing the point completely.

This situation has to be made clear, and it has all to do with the victims /survivors rights. This is because unless there is a requirement by law for elders to report, the reporting can be left up to anyone else, the victim, the victim's parents, the victim's family or anyone who learns of the abuse as per par 14. If the law says the elders are mandated to report, then the elder has to report even if the victim, the victim's parents, the victim's family or anyone else does not want them to report it. It's the same with child protection agencies and social workers. In states or countries where those people are mandated to report, then they have to, regardless whether the client wants it or not. In fact when counseling a victim/survivor the counselor has to warn them that they will have to report anything the victim/survivor tells them. Then it is left up to the victim /survivor to disclose or not to disclose. It has everything to do with confidentiality. Not every victim/or survivor wants it reported, so if it is not mandated by law,  as an elder/counselor you are leaving that right to the victim/survivor, but in order to be able to do that, you have to be clear on what the law says first!

You are missing the point. 

The point is that people, especially children, are easily coerced into NOT reporting for fear of retribution from the offending person(s). This happens in a lot of cases involving not just CSA but domestic abuse. If these incidences are reported by mandate or not, but still reported, then the PROPER authorities can get involved and asses the situation. The elders/gb/wt/boe/ or ANY faction of the wt are not only ill qualified to handle such cases, they are incompetent at best. 

like I said, the ONLY thing gained here is that the wt now recognizes that the abuser is the bad guy and not the person reporting to the PROPER authorities.    

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1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

If at least two people—the one making the accusation and someone else who can verify this act or other acts of child abuse by the accused—establish the charge, a judicial committee is formed. 

 

And there you have it, two witness rule still in effect

Of course two witness rule has no influence on how secular authorities will handle the case. The two witness rule is merely applicable in a congregational setting, ie. the judicial committee.

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20 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

The point is that people, especially children, are easily coerced into NOT reporting for fear of retribution from the offending person(s).

Well then what is your point? If the victim doesn't speak out, then there is nothing to report, is there? And if someone has reasonable suspicions, then they can go to the secular authorities and the elders can't they?

20 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

The elders/gb/wt/boe/ or ANY faction of the wt are not only ill qualified to handle such cases, they are incompetent at best

like I said, the elders etc. are concerned with congregational matters. With regard to law enforcement, that is obviously left up to the relevant competent authorities. I do not see anything in that article stating otherwise.

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9 minutes ago, Anna said:

Well then what is your point? If the victim doesn't speak out, then there is nothing to report, is there? And if someone has reasonable suspicions, then they can go to the secular authorities and the elders can't they?

So when the ms or elder molests a child and tells the child that he/she will kill them or their family or the family dog , scares them into submission, its ok because they didn't want to tell. Is this what you are saying? Or how about the wife that is getting the crap beat out of her and fears for her life, let it continue because she is scared to report for fear of more abuse? Riiiiight. Sounds like a good plan Anna. 

14 minutes ago, Anna said:

like I said, the elders etc. are concerned with congregational matters. 

Then leave crimes to the police instead of covering them up! Report the crime and THEN deal with the sin. 

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20 minutes ago, Anna said:

Of course two witness rule has no influence on how secular authorities will handle the case. The two witness rule is merely applicable in a congregational setting, ie. the judicial committee.

Yes but if there are not two witnesses then there will be 'no case to answer', especially if the accused is an Elder. 

And if there is 'no case to answer' then there will of course be nothing to report to the authorities. 

And if the victim continues to make complaint against the Elder, then the victim will be disfellowshipped for slander. 

I have the mag up online now. 

" 15 In the congregation, before the elders take judicial action, why are at least two witnesses required? This requirement is part of the Bible’s high standard of justice. "

Is this really the case in Child Abuse ? Does it say this in the Bible regarding Child Abuse ?

I think not. I think it refers to a disagreement between two adults. 

I do not think God or Christ would put this pressure on young children. 

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4 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

So when the ms or elder molests a child and tells the child that he/she will kill them or their family or the family dog , scares them into submission, its ok because they didn't want to tell. Is this what you are saying? Or how about the wife that is getting the crap beat out of her and fears for her life, let it continue because she is scared to report for fear of more abuse? Riiiiight. Sounds like a good plan Anna. 

This was not what we were discussing. We were talking about the elders being mandated or not mandated to report. What you have mentioned above has nothing to do with that. And I have no idea why you would think I thought it was ok for the victim not to report, if I wouldn't know there was even a victim in the first place? How can anyone do anything if they don't know about it? The perpetrator is not going to say anything, is he?

What you have described happens in ALL spheres of society, religious or non religious.

14 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:
29 minutes ago, Anna said:

like I said, the elders etc. are concerned with congregational matters. 

Then leave crimes to the police instead of covering them up! Report the crime and THEN deal with the sin. 

Who is covering up? If it is not up to the elders to report (by law) then it is up to the victim/survivor/family/friends/ or anyone else (like John Butler) to report. If these people do not want to report, as I have already mentioned, it is their right not to. And if it is someone other than the victim/survivor,  they will have to consider whether or not they will honor the wishes of the victim/survivor who does not want it reported.

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