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To get to the meaningful core of what Armageddon is about, which is the battle of truth against lies, we look at Israel’s sins of the past.  Today’s spiritual “Israel” comprised of the anointed ones, is also steeped in sin, resulting from a testing delusion put upon them by Satan; a delusion that is passionately called “the truth”.   Luke 22:31; 2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 13:1,2,11 

God does expect us to seek Truth.  Ps 25:5; Matt 7:7,8; John 4:23,24; 8:31,32; 14:6 

Yet, today’s “Israel” is feeding on the lies of their leaders/prophets. Matt 7:15; Acts 20:29; Rev 16:13,14  

When reading Ezekiel chapter 13, notice that the term “whitewash” helps reveal what is behind the organization’s ‘new light’ label.  Many translations use the phrase, “untempered mortar”, a few say “loose mud”, or “chalk”; all are descriptive of the organization’s attempt to cover over unstable teachings that do not last.  John 15:16,5 

“untempered mortar” is defined as “whitewash" used to patch a wall, creating the facade of beauty.

As an example:

Matt 23:37 – “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.”

Why were these teachers described by Jesus as whitewashed tombs?

“You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”  John 8:44-47

By choosing to deny Christ’s words of truth which offer eternal life, they remained in spiritual darkness, alienated from God and life.

 “The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.”  John 6:63

“If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.” 1 John 1:6

The battle of truth against lies was evident then, and is now, as it reaches the end point in these last days.  The “two witnesses” (“two “meaning truth – John 8:17) proclaim the revealing message from Christ, while false prophets battle against it, with their lies. Dan 12:9; Rev 1:11; 11:3; 1 John 4:6 

Ezekiel chapter 13:

The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who are now prophesying. Say to those who prophesy out of their own imagination: ‘Hear the word of the Lord!This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to the foolish (“wicked”) prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing

Your prophets, Israel, are like jackals among ruins. (Lam 5:17,18; Ps 44:19)

 You have not gone up to the breaches in the wall to repair it for the people of Israel so that it will stand firm in the battle on the day of the Lord( Ezek 22:30)

Their visions are false and their divinations a lie. Even though the Lord has not sent them, they say, “The Lord declares,” and expect Him to fulfill their words. (Ps 50:21; Isa 57:11) 

Have you not seen false visions and uttered lying divinations when you say, “The Lord declares,” though I have not spoken? (Ezek 22:28; Rev 16:13,14) 

“‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Because of your false words and lying visions, I am against you, declares the Sovereign Lord.My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign Lord.  (Rev 13:8)   

10 “‘Because they lead my people astray, saying, “Peace,” when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash,  (Jer 23:13,17; 1 Thess 5:3) 

11 therefore tell those who cover it with whitewash that it is going to fall. Rain will come in torrents, and I will send hailstones hurtling down, and violent winds will burst forth. 

12 When the wall collapses, will people not ask you, “Where is the whitewash you covered it with?”

13 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: In my wrath I will unleash a violent wind, and in my anger hailstones and torrents of rain will fall with destructive fury. (Ps 18:12,13; Isa 30:30 [Heb 12:1] Ps 147:17,18; Matt 24:30; Rev 11:3,5; Rev 8:7; Matt 7:24,25}  

14 I will tear down the wall you have covered with whitewash and will level it to the ground so that its foundation will be laid bare. (Matt 7:26,27; 1 Cor 3:10,13)  When it falls, you will be destroyed in it; and you will know that I am the Lord.

15 So I will pour out my wrath against the wall and against those who covered it with whitewash. I will say to you, “The wall is gone and so are those who whitewashed it,16 those prophets of Israel who prophesied to Jerusalem and saw visions of peace for her when there was no peace, declares the Sovereign Lord.”’ 

Pearl Doxsey:

I have come to appreciate, that "walls" stand for doctrines/teachings. Just as the city wall protects the city from their enemies, so do doctrines defend against threats to faith, but they also offer boundaries to keep a "flock" in an enclosure. My point, is that Ezekiel "dug" a hole in the wall. (Ezek 12:4-7) We know the meaning of "digging" (Prov 2:2-5; Matt 13:44), and when we combine these symbols (digging, wall) I take it as scrutiny of teachings (1 John 4:1; 1 Thess 5:21) which weakens a wall of false doctrine, just as digging holes in a literal wall would. We are told (according to this symbolism) that the "wall" of apostate Jerusalem will fall (see Ezekiel 13:10,11,12,14,15), no matter how much they "whitewash" their teachings.

I am certain of this connection and meaning of "wall", because the fall of Jericho’s wall is inextricably linked with the "end", and to Revelation (Heb 11:30; Luke 21:20; Josh 6:15,20,8; Rev 8:2,6).
The "wall" of false teachings will "fall", leaving all those within that city defenseless and conquered. The wall they trusted in will fail them.

(From “Wall/Christ’s Side” 4womaninthewilderness)

As a child, I was occasionally assigned to clean the chalk boards after school, using water and a large cloth.  Most children rode the bus home to the far reaches of the farming community I lived in. I was one of the few who walked home from school, which gave me the opportunity to stay longer.  I remember the satisfaction of washing away the day’s writings to reveal a clean board, ready for the new day’s teachings. 

JWs, from the outset, the organization has added layers and layers of decaying interpretations to its doctrines, like smudged chalk accumulating on a dirty chalkboard. This is the reality behind the organization’s new light philosophy.  In its history, it has never returned to the clean pure truth of Christ’s Word. 

To understand why God allows his people to submit to this powerful delusion, please see:

 “Who is to Blame?”

“Spreading Tribulation – Tainted or Tested?”

“Satan’s Fall”

4womaninthewilderness blogspot

 

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To get to the meaningful core of what Armageddon is about, which is the battle of truth against lies, we look at Israel’s sins of the past.  Today’s spiritual “Israel” comprised of the anointed ones,

The funny thing is that what he was saying is a legitimate Christian belief, even we Jehovah's Witnesses believe this too so it is not only us so that teachings isn't soley exclusive to Jehovah's Witn

Dear Sir, I see no scriptures to support your words, yet you are telling me I need to focus on the Bible itself.     What I do notice is if I speak against a WT lie, you tend to support the lie as tru

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@Witness Spiritual Israel consist of all those under Christ (i.e. followers, converts, disciples, Apostles, heirs of the promise as mentioned in Galatians etc.), not solely the chosen ones, and second, how can you speak in this sense when originally you watered down what Christ will soon be doing in the glory of his Father? For, in the past, you negated what Jesus will be doing concerning the wicked persons and those who do not accept and or obey God by means of the good news gospel.

Lastly, that word (κεκονιαμένοις) has 3 meanings concerning the verse:

  • to cover with lime, plaster over, whitewash
  • the Jews were accustomed to whitewash the entrances to their sepulchres, as a warning against defilement by touching them
  • term applied to a hypocrite who conceals his malice under an outward assumption of piety

The contextual meaning of the word used in Matthew 23:27 one of the 3 is used; parallel both to Acts 23:3 and Deuteronomy 27:2; 27:4. Whereas there are only 2 Occurrences of the word in gospel of Matthew and the book of Acts.

That being said, the other person is new, his account is evidently in it's infancy.

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11 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Spiritual Israel consist of all those under Christ (i.e. followers, converts, disciples, Apostles, heirs of the promise as mentioned in Galatians etc.), not solely the chosen ones, and second, how can you speak in this sense when originally you watered down what Christ will soon be doing in the glory of his Father? For, in the past, you negated what Jesus will be doing concerning the wicked persons and those who do not accept and or obey God by means of the good news gospel.

"Spiritual Israel consist of all those under Christ (i.e. followers, converts, disciples, Apostles, heirs of the promise as mentioned in Galatians etc.), not solely the chosen ones,"

From the WT website:  The name God gave to Jacob. It came to refer to all his descendants collectively, at any one time. The descendants of Jacob’s 12 sons were often called the sons of Israel, the house of Israel, the people (men) of Israel, or the Israelites. Israel was also used as the name for the ten-tribe northern kingdom that broke away from the southern kingdom, and later as a term for anointed Christians, “the Israel of God.”Ga 6:16; Ge 32:28; 2Sa 7:23; Ro 9:6.  
nwtstg

Are you anointed?  Are all believers in Christ anointed?  Do you believe all are part of the Temple of God that “comes down out of heaven” to bring God’s Spirit and blessings to all the children of God?  Rev 3:21; 2 Tim 2:12; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22

As the New Covenant/promise of life, the Bride, the firstborn of God, brings life to the rest of God’s children when united with her “Husband”. James 1:18; Rev 14:4; 21:2,3,9,10; 22:17 If God calls all His children, “Israel” in the Kingdom, so be it.

“Who is Israel?”  4womaninthewilderness 

 "how can you speak in this sense when originally you watered down what Christ will soon be doing in the glory of his Father? For, in the past, you negated what Jesus will be doing concerning the wicked persons and those who do not accept and or obey God by means of the good news gospel."

John 14:6 - “I am the WAY, the TRUTH, the LIFE.”    Oh, by the way, I am also the DESTROYER, EVEN THOUGH I TOLD YOU…

 “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. John 10:7-10

God’s Word through Christ carries life.  The rejection of God’s Word carries its own condemnation.  Man is already under the curse of sin and death/destruction. (1 Cor 15:26) Without accepting, believing in Christ, and obeying his Word, we are left to the Destroyer.  We are left to our sins as the result not accepting Christ’s redemption.  John 15:10; 1 John 5:12; Gal 3:22

1 Cor 15:22 - “For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.  

The DESTROYER is Satan and his minions, thieves who “comes only to steal, kill and DESTROY”

Isa 33:1

Jesus Christ, who is the Word of Life,  is not the Destroyer. John 1:1-4

The Spirit is the one who gives life. The flesh doesn’t help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.  John 6:63

 “Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the one to come.”  Matt 12:32

 

11 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

That being said, the other person is new, his account is evidently in it's infancy.

I was giving this person a chance to explain his  feelings.   Why do you bring it up?   Life as a JW is hard enough to make sense of the Word of God.  Tossing your hat into the ring is part of the “confusion” prevalent during the last days.  Rev 17:5 (Isa 28:15)

 

 

 

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@Witness Please focus on the Bible itself, for such does not concern anything but it. Those of Spiritual Israel are those who are the church of the Christ, which includes ALL persons, not solely the chosen ones, I remember explaining the Spiritual House and what the New Covenant conveys and what it means for Christians. It would be understandable if the New Covenant was exactly like the Old Covenant in terms of the status of Natural Israel whereas solely those of Israel are evidently in the tent, but with the New Covenant, this is both Jews and Gentiles, not solely Jews.

Second, what you now mention does not negate watering down Jesus' role in God's Purpose and Will, and what he will do to the wicked and those who are against God when it comes to Yah's glory - which lines up with the last time Jesus' role was brought up.

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3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

@Witness Please focus on the Bible itself, for such does not concern anything but it. Those of Spiritual Israel are those who are the church of the Christ, which includes ALL persons, not solely the chosen ones, I remember explaining the Spiritual House and what the New Covenant conveys and what it means for Christians. It would be understandable if the New Covenant was exactly like the Old Covenant in terms of the status of Natural Israel whereas solely those of Israel are evidently in the tent, but with the New Covenant, this is both Jews and Gentiles, not solely Jews.

Second, what you now mention does not negate watering down Jesus' role in God's Purpose and Will, and what he will do to the wicked and those who are against God when it comes to Yah's glory - which lines up with the last time Jesus' role was brought up.

Dear Sir, I see no scriptures to support your words, yet you are telling me I need to focus on the Bible itself.     What I do notice is if I speak against a WT lie, you tend to support the lie as truth.  You tend to support the GB and the organization.    In this case, the WT tells the truth about who “Israel” is, since they have successfully captivated and surrounded the camp of “saints” with their lies. Col 2:8; Rev 13:1,5-7,10,11; 16:13,14; 20:9 The only way to draw prey, is with a little truth.  Amos 3:5; Rev 8:10-11

It is interesting that in this case of Watchtower teachings, the truth about who spiritual “Israel” is, you are calling a lie.   

 

Jesus’ names and descriptive roles:

The Logos/Word

Michael (“Who Is Like God?”)

Savior

Master

Bread of Life

Faithful and True

Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace…the light of the world.

 

The role/names of Satan:

Deceiver

Father of the Lie

the Destroyer

Murderer

Dragon, Apollyon, Accuser, Leviathan….the ruler of darkness.  

I have not watered down Jesus’ role whatsoever. But, to say Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace, is the Destroyer, is blasphemy. 

Again, you show no scriptures to prove otherwise, while I already have. You appear not to see the distinction between light and darkness, evil and good, life and death.   The two do not mix.

Don’t become partners with those who do not believe. For what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness? 15 What agreement does Christ have with Belial? 2 Cor 6:14,15a

 

 

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21 hours ago, Witness said:

Dear Sir, I see no scriptures to support your words, yet you are telling me I need to focus on the Bible itself. 

And yet there was a discussion regarding the spiritual house and those who are in said house.

On the contrary, there is Scriptural support.

In the Old Testament, God had foretold that the Old Covenant, otherwise as the Sinaic Law covenant would be replaced with another, the New Covenant. The New Covenant is a biblical interpretation originally derived from a phrase in the Book of Jeremiah. iI refers to It is often thought of as an eschatological age, otherwise known as the Messianic Age or The World to Come by some, in addition, it is related to what we already know about God's Kingdom.

Jeremiah 31:31-34, which reads:

The New Covenant

[31] “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, [32] not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. [33] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34] And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

The Old Covenant's (Sym. Haggar; bounded woman) mediator between God and Natural Israel is the Son of Amram, Moses. In this Covenant, the people that represent the other party are the Isrealites. And around this time people were validated by animal sacrifices and what was to be followed was written on stone tablets.

The New Covenant's (Sym. Sarah; free woman) mediator between God and Spiritual Israel is the only begotten son of the true God, child to Mary and Joseph, Jesus (Imanuel). In this Covenant, the people that represent the other party are the both Jews and Gentiles. And around this time people were validated by Jesus giving his life for mankind (Jesus' Sacrifice) and what was to be followed was written within our hearts.

The difference is that in the New Covenant we are to follow and adhere the Foremost Commandment and all that hangs from it, as what Jesus said to those who asked him, such was held to a high importance to him, hence what I always reference, Shema Yisrael.

We also know that Jesus spoke with his disciples regarding the New Covenant.

As we see below:

Luke 22:20 - And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood

(ref. Matthew 26:26-28; Mark 14:22-24)

For an honest Christian and Bible reader would point out that even the Christ himself has stated as is mentioned above, that he [Jesus] plainly said the New Covenant involved His blood being shed (Jesus referred to a New Covenant, which is an allusion to Jeremiah 31:31 as seen above).

The New Covenant immediately came into effect after Jesus' death and just days later we see what has taken place at Pentecost, read Acts 2, as is what can be read in Galatians and or Romans, etc, for the New Covenant allowed not just Jews, but Gentiles to be in the church of the Christ, and all of them, who uphold the teachings and believe and worship in God and accept the word of the prophet he sent, of whom he made Christ, Jesus, all these people are in union with the Christ, man or woman, rich or poor, etc and to this day, the New Covenant is in effect, hence why there is a huge importance in the good news gospel and the Messianic Age of which must be professed - for I believe you claimed to be of the chosen ones, why is it you say there is no support when the Bible speaks the truth itself? Again, be focused on the Bible.

For True Christians who are in union with the Christ uphold and know that and believe that Jesus is the mediator of the New Covenant, and that the Blood of Christ shed at his crucifixion is the required blood of the covenant. The New Covenant is an agreement between God and Jesus Christ, and within this agreement, it includes all who are united with Jesus Christ, or as the Bible says, all those who are in [union with] Christ.

The Covenant that is by means of Jesus' blood is mentioned time and time again, there is no reason to brush off what Spiritual Israel entails, for all of Spiritual Israel are of the Spiritual House, not solely the chosen ones.

  • 1 Corinthians 11:25 - In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
  • 2 Corinthians 3:1 - Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you?
  • 2 Corinthians 3:6 - who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
  • Hebrews 8:8 - For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
  • Hebrews 8:13 - In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
  • Hebrews 9:15 - Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
  • Hebrews 12:24 - and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

That being said, you mentioned Galatians before, do you not consider your brothers and sisters in Christ as the heirs who are also of the house, all in union with the Christ despite not being of the chosen ones, the firstfruits?

Do not ignore those in union with the Christ.... The very reasons I questioned you earlier in my comment on this thread.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

What I do notice is if I speak against a WT lie, you tend to support the lie as truth. 

Originally you were talking about the WT, you only brought them up after the fact when you spoke in confusion of those in union with the Christ as is Jesus' kingship whereas you had watered down his role in the past.

That being said, I only speak in regards to falsehood and conspiracies, of which you tend to pose.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

In this case, the WT tells the truth about who “Israel” is, since they have successfully captivated and surrounded the camp of “saints” with their lies.

Before you mentioned the WT, you left out the fact of the heirs who are also of Spiritual Israel, for even in the past you mentioned, as well as misused, what is said in Galatians 3, therefore, one can coin and or question what you convey, and it can be said to focus on what the Bible says if you completely missed what the New Covenant concerning Christians convey.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

Col 2:8; Rev 13:1,5-7,10,11; 16:13,14; 20:9 The only way to draw prey, is with a little truth.

But you shed little truth yourself, you attempt to draw prey, but instead you found a lion of God from amongst the bushes and brushes. Now, for you to say:

21 hours ago, Witness said:

I see no scriptures to support your words, yet you are telling me I need to focus on the Bible itself.

Only shows readers of how misguided you are concerning what was mentioned, only afterwards instead of speaking in regards to what was asked, you brought up the WT. I will tell you again - focus on the Bible itself, for not once until now you speak without the mentioned of the WT, and yet when something is address, you use the WT as some sort of shield and or cover, and your attempt, for your appeal to motive is not as effective, and never was.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

It is interesting that in this case of Watchtower teachings, the truth about who spiritual “Israel” is, you are calling a lie.   

If I believed Spiritual Israel to be a lie, my heavy spoken words concerning the New Covenant would been nothing, but as I told you before, I uphold the New Covenant and you at times shown a distaste in such.

Everyone knows what Spiritual Israel is and who they are in union with, let alone the house of which they all dwell, yet you do not recognize all of Spiritual Israel, you only pointed out that the chosen ones were only of this fold in regards to your comment, hence why I made the response and the only thing you can bring up is the WT.... For it seems, you have no ground to stand on unless JWs pick you up by your feet.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

I have not watered down Jesus’ role whatsoever.

Please, do not kid yourself:

 

21 hours ago, Witness said:

But, to say Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace, is the Destroyer, is blasphemy.

Jesus is both survivor and King, he is the one who will put an end to the wickedness, he will come with a sword to end all badness and bring forth peace in the name of his God and Father, Yahweh. Jesus will also be the one to battle with Satan and his demons as he has done so in heaven and he will be the one to close them away, and eventually, after his Kingship, Satan and his demons will be destroy, by means of destruction that is everlasting - ceasing to exist, and the last enemy that will be dealt with is death itself.

All is explained in our last discussion, so before you take a shot, make sure there is no evidence to claim concerning such:

And Jesus further explained here, same thread:

The irony of it all, in that discussion you ignore ALL references, which further shows who is not too focused on the Bible.

That being said, if I last recall, what is even worse is you pointed out that God had sent Satan to the Egyptians, for you equated Satan to the Destroyer in that verse (not to mention how you twisted the Strong's in that discussion):

On 10/27/2018 at 10:40 AM, Witness said:

Whatever damage is done to humans who are judged by Christ as not worthy of the Kingdom, is at the hand of the Destroyer, Satan. God removes His protection, and Satan steps in. Exod 12:23

And I told you why this is, you ignored it by jumping to JWs again.

The verse in question says the following:

  • Exodus 12:13 - The blood shall be a sign for you, on the houses where you are. And when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and no plague will befall you to destroy you, when I strike the land of Egypt.

Pretty sure this isn't Satan talking and or taking that action.... And it seems somebody is not paying attention to the Old Testament's book of Exodus (Torah). Then again your past comments alluded to God giving Satan the satisfaction of doing actions of this extreme concerning Israel.

So please, show some honesty...

21 hours ago, Witness said:

Again, you show no scriptures to prove otherwise, while I already have.

I did. I only posed question because you did not speak of the heirs who are of Spiritual Israels, for those of Spiritual Israel were not only the chosen ones, but rather, those in union with the Christ as well. You even stated this, alongside with me when we spoke of the Spiritual House in our earliest discussion, and even that time, you actually attempted to use the Bible more than running to the WT.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

Don’t become partners with those who do not believe. For what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness? 15 What agreement does Christ have with Belial? 2 Cor 6:14,15a

And yet you are good with God's Order being changed, accept lies and later claim you know nothing and choose to know nothing while tooting the same horn again and again, moreover, the fact that you willfully ignore those in union with the Christ when they too are of the New Covenant, last I checked, chosen ones, were aware of who is of Spiritual Israel, their brothers and sisters who follow the Christ and worship his God, yet you do not recognize these persons, yet attempt to quote what Paul had said in the past. That, Witness, is being hypocritical.

So I ask again, why water down what the Christ will come to do and why ignore those who are of Spiritual Israel? And stated before, focus on the Bible this time and solely the Bible, for you did so originally and then spouted more WT silliness.

In addition, it puts what you said about the Living Stones to question now.

That being said, regarding the titles and such you linked with Jesus and with Satan, how about next time, learn to that some titles ans phrases are linked with others as well, reasons why the Strong's are clear in this notion to which as seen in the linked thread you showed confusion. But by means of your logic, The Assyrians must have had dealing with God's adversary rather than God concerning King Hezekiah.



 

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@Jeff Danby Welcome to the area once called Controversial Posts whereas discussion can be made and you can be a challenger and or challenged. Originally, this area, before it was a club consist of ALL topics and over time a JW only clubhouse.

That being said, do not expect to get an answer from someone who claims to be of the chosen ones, yet as we can see here, ignores the heirs who are with the Christ also.

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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

@Jeff Danby Welcome to the area once called Controversial Posts whereas discussion can be made and you can be a challenger and or challenged. Originally, this area, before it was a club consist of ALL topics and over time a JW only clubhouse.

That being said, do not expect to get an answer from someone who claims to be of the chosen ones, yet as we can see here, ignores the heirs who are with the Christ also.

If @Jeff Danby is a JW, you have thoroughly confused him, since he believes that “Israel” is comprised of the anointed ones, as do I.    That may soon change with shocking “new light” when “Jehovah’s spiritual temple”/organization/idol becomes known as “Israel”.  Will you be ready for baptism then?

 

 

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

he verse in question says the following:

  • Exodus 12:13 - The blood shall be a sign for you, on the houses where you are. And when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and no plague will befall you to destroy you, when I strike the land of Egypt.

Pretty sure this isn't Satan talking and or taking that action.... And it seems somebody is not paying attention to the Old Testament's book of Exodus (Torah).

Exod 12:23 - "When the Lord passes through to strike Egypt and sees the blood on the lintel and the two doorposts, he will pass over the door and not let the destroyer enter your houses to strike you."

Heb 11:28 -  "By faith he instituted the Passover and the sprinkling of the blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn might not touch the Israelites."

Isa 14:12 - "Shining morning star, how you have fallen from the heavens! You destroyer of nations, you have been cut down to the ground."

Isa 33:1 - "Woe, you destroyer never destroyed, you traitor never betrayed! When you have finished destroying, you will be destroyed. When you have finished betraying, they will betray you."

God, and Christ are our judge, not our executioner.  

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37 minutes ago, Witness said:

If @Jeff Danby is a JW, you have thoroughly confused him, since he believes that “Israel” is comprised of the anointed ones, as do I.    That may soon change with shocking “new light” when “Jehovah’s spiritual temple”/organization/idol becomes known as “Israel”.  Will you be ready for baptism then?

We do not know if he is a JW or not, granted this is a forums whereas now the only access here is by means of a club, and majority of folks on this platform was here, granted the history of this forum.

I haven't confused him, I merely speak of what the Bible talks about concerning God's people, those of Spiritual Israel who are in union with the Christ - nothing more.

How do you know what he believes if he had said nothing more but 3 words?

That being said, you continue to interject because originally, what he had said to you was concerning the Bible, not JWs or the WT, you are only adding the JW/WT because you've been called out to question regarding Spiritual Israel.

39 minutes ago, Witness said:

Exod 12:23 - "When the Lord passes through to strike Egypt and sees the blood on the lintel and the two doorposts, he will pass over the door and not let the destroyer enter your houses to strike you."

Heb 11:28 -  "By faith he instituted the Passover and the sprinkling of the blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn might not touch the Israelites."

Isa 14:12 - "Shining morning star, how you have fallen from the heavens! You destroyer of nations, you have been cut down to the ground."

Isa 33:1 - "Woe, you destroyer never destroyed, you traitor never betrayed! When you have finished destroying, you will be destroyed. When you have finished betraying, they will betray you."

This has already been addressed in the last discussion, the same one linked and you had been refuted, especially when you spoke of God sending Satan to the Egyptians, you are only repeating your folly, Witness. 

 

  • That being said, you made the mistake that stating the Bible, and or there is no Scriptural Support for the New Covenant concerning Spiritual Israel. How does your claim add up when there is Scriptural Evidence concerning such?
  • Second, you speak of Spiritual Israel, and yet you ignore the heirs. Why only mention the chosen ones, but not God's people also, in which the Kingdom of God is for them also? What is the reason to single them out and ignore that they are of the same Spiritual House? Remember, yous aid it before, that Christians are in union with the Christ...
  • Lastly, you claim you never watered down Jesus' Kingship, and yet there are comments from you, even you posting a picture when you questioned Judith. Did you purposely forget what God's original purpose and will concerning mankind was all about, and how his only begotten son fairs into the mix?

I suggest you focus on the Bible in regards to these 3 points, granted that was originally posted to you in addition to the first.

As an additional question, because I asked you this before (and you avoided purposely) and since you want to be bold by quoting Exodus...

Who was the Destroyer found in verses 13 and 23 of Exodus 12 according to you?

The one thing I do not like other than slander is someone who wants to defile what is true of what is written in the Bible itself. And among other things, someone who twists what the New Covenant conveys, for they ignore the fact of whose blood has been shed to enable it for mankind because of Adam's sin.

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12 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

As an additional question, because I asked you this before (and you avoided purposely) and since you want to be bold by quoting Exodus...

Who was the Destroyer found in verses 13 and 23 of Exodus 12 according to you?

You must be kidding.  

On 7/18/2019 at 8:13 PM, Witness said:

The role/names of Satan:

Deceiver

Father of the Lie

the Destroyer

Murderer

Dragon, Apollyon, Accuser, Leviathan….the ruler of darkness.  

 

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    • Joshua 2 ---> 1 Now after the death of Moses the servant of the Lord it came to pass, that the Lord spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying, 2 Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel. 3 Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses. 4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast. 5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life: as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee: I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee. 6 Be strong and of a good courage: for unto this people shalt thou divide for an inheritance the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give them. 7 Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper withersoever thou goest. 8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. 9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest. 10 Then Joshua commanded the officers of the people, saying, 11 Pass through the host, and command the people, saying, Prepare you victuals; for within three days ye shall pass over this Jordan, to go in to possess the land, which the Lord your God giveth you to possess it. 12 And to the Reubenites, and to the Gadites, and to half the tribe of Manasseh, spake Joshua, saying, 13 Remember the word which Moses the servant of the Lord commanded you, saying, The Lord your God hath given you rest, and hath given you this land. 14 Your wives, your little ones, and your cattle, shall remain in the land which Moses gave you on this side Jordan; but ye shall pass before your brethren armed, all the mighty men of valour, and help them; 15 Until the Lord have given your brethren rest, as he hath given you, and they also have possessed the land which the Lord your God giveth them: then ye shall return unto the land of your possession, and enjoy it, which Moses the Lord's servant gave you on this side Jordan toward the sunrising. 16 And they answered Joshua, saying, All that thou commandest us we will do, and whithersoever thou sendest us, we will go. 17 According as we hearkened unto Moses in all things, so will we hearken unto thee: only the Lord thy God be with thee, as he was with Moses. 18 Whosoever he be that doth rebel against thy commandment, and will not hearken unto thy words in all that thou commandest him, he shall be put to death: only be strong and of a good courage.
    • 6 Now Jericho was straitly shut up because of the children of Israel: none went out, and none came in. 2 And the Lord said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour. 3 And ye shall compass the city, all ye men of war, and go round about the city once. Thus shalt thou do six days. 4 And seven priests shall bear before the ark seven trumpets of rams' horns: and the seventh day ye shall compass the city seven times, and the priests shall blow with the trumpets. 5 And it shall come to pass, that when they make a long blast with the ram's horn, and when ye hear the sound of the trumpet, all the people shall shout with a great shout; and the wall of the city shall fall down flat, and the people shall ascend up every man straight before him. 6 And Joshua the son of Nun called the priests, and said unto them, Take up the ark of the covenant, and let seven priests bear seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark of the Lord. 7 And he said unto the people, Pass on, and compass the city, and let him that is armed pass on before the ark of the Lord. 8 And it came to pass, when Joshua had spoken unto the people, that the seven priests bearing the seven trumpets of rams' horns passed on before the Lord, and blew with the trumpets: and the ark of the covenant of the Lord followed them. 9 And the armed men went before the priests that blew with the trumpets, and the rereward came after the ark, the priests going on, and blowing with the trumpets. 10 And Joshua had commanded the people, saying, Ye shall not shout, nor make any noise with your voice, neither shall any word proceed out of your mouth, until the day I bid you shout; then shall ye shout. 11 So the ark of the Lord compassed the city, going about it once: and they came into the camp, and lodged in the camp. 12 And Joshua rose early in the morning, and the priests took up the ark of the Lord. 13 And seven priests bearing seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark of the Lord went on continually, and blew with the trumpets: and the armed men went before them; but the rereward came after the ark of the Lord, the priests going on, and blowing with the trumpets. 14 And the second day they compassed the city once, and returned into the camp: so they did six days. 15 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that they rose early about the dawning of the day, and compassed the city after the same manner seven times: only on that day they compassed the city seven times. 16 And it came to pass at the seventh time, when the priests blew with the trumpets, Joshua said unto the people, Shout; for the Lord hath given you the city. 17 And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the Lord: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent. 18 And ye, in any wise keep yourselves from the accursed thing, lest ye make yourselves accursed, when ye take of the accursed thing, and make the camp of Israel a curse, and trouble it. 19 But all the silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the Lord: they shall come into the treasury of the Lord. 20 So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city. 21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. 22 But Joshua had said unto the two men that had spied out the country, Go into the harlot's house, and bring out thence the woman, and all that she hath, as ye sware unto her. 23 And the young men that were spies went in, and brought out Rahab, and her father, and her mother, and her brethren, and all that she had; and they brought out all her kindred, and left them without the camp of Israel. 24 And they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein: only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the Lord. 25 And Joshua saved Rahab the harlot alive, and her father's household, and all that she had; and she dwelleth in Israel even unto this day; because she hid the messengers, which Joshua sent to spy out Jericho. 26 And Joshua adjured them at that time, saying, Cursed be the man before the Lord, that riseth up and buildeth this city Jericho: he shall lay the foundation thereof in his firstborn, and in his youngest son shall he set up the gates of it. 27 So the Lord was with Joshua; and his fame was noised throughout all the country.
    • As referenced in the Bible Book of Joshua
    • 19 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; 2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. 3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat. 4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: 5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. 6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, 7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. 8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. 9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. 10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. 11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door. 12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: 13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it. 14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law. 15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. 16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the Lord being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city. 17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed. 18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord: 19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die: 20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live. 21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken. 22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar. 23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar. 24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven; 25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. 26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt. 27 And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the Lord: 28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace. 29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt. 30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters. 31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth: 32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. 33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. 34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. 35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. 36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. 37 And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day. 38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.
    • 3 Now Jehoram the son of Ahab began to reign over Israel in Samaria the eighteenth year of Jehoshaphat king of Judah, and reigned twelve years. 2 And he wrought evil in the sight of the Lord; but not like his father, and like his mother: for he put away the image of Baal that his father had made. 3 Nevertheless he cleaved unto the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, which made Israel to sin; he departed not therefrom. 4 And Mesha king of Moab was a sheepmaster, and rendered unto the king of Israel an hundred thousand lambs, and an hundred thousand rams, with the wool. 5 But it came to pass, when Ahab was dead, that the king of Moab rebelled against the king of Israel. 6 And king Jehoram went out of Samaria the same time, and numbered all Israel. 7 And he went and sent to Jehoshaphat the king of Judah, saying, The king of Moab hath rebelled against me: wilt thou go with me against Moab to battle? And he said, I will go up: I am as thou art, my people as thy people, and my horses as thy horses. 8 And he said, Which way shall we go up? And he answered, The way through the wilderness of Edom. 9 So the king of Israel went, and the king of Judah, and the king of Edom: and they fetched a compass of seven days' journey: and there was no water for the host, and for the cattle that followed them. 10 And the king of Israel said, Alas! that the Lord hath called these three kings together, to deliver them into the hand of Moab! 11 But Jehoshaphat said, Is there not here a prophet of the Lord, that we may enquire of the Lord by him? And one of the king of Israel's servants answered and said, Here is Elisha the son of Shaphat, which poured water on the hands of Elijah. 12 And Jehoshaphat said, The word of the Lord is with him. So the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat and the king of Edom went down to him. 13 And Elisha said unto the king of Israel, What have I to do with thee? get thee to the prophets of thy father, and to the prophets of thy mother. And the king of Israel said unto him, Nay: for the Lord hath called these three kings together, to deliver them into the hand of Moab. 14 And Elisha said, As the Lord of hosts liveth, before whom I stand, surely, were it not that I regard the presence of Jehoshaphat the king of Judah, I would not look toward thee, nor see thee. 15 But now bring me a minstrel. And it came to pass, when the minstrel played, that the hand of the Lord came upon him. 16 And he said, Thus saith the Lord, Make this valley full of ditches. 17 For thus saith the Lord, Ye shall not see wind, neither shall ye see rain; yet that valley shall be filled with water, that ye may drink, both ye, and your cattle, and your beasts. 18 And this is but a light thing in the sight of the Lord: he will deliver the Moabites also into your hand. 19 And ye shall smite every fenced city, and every choice city, and shall fell every good tree, and stop all wells of water, and mar every good piece of land with stones. 20 And it came to pass in the morning, when the meat offering was offered, that, behold, there came water by the way of Edom, and the country was filled with water. 21 And when all the Moabites heard that the kings were come up to fight against them, they gathered all that were able to put on armour, and upward, and stood in the border. 22 And they rose up early in the morning, and the sun shone upon the water, and the Moabites saw the water on the other side as red as blood: 23 And they said, This is blood: the kings are surely slain, and they have smitten one another: now therefore, Moab, to the spoil. 24 And when they came to the camp of Israel, the Israelites rose up and smote the Moabites, so that they fled before them: but they went forward smiting the Moabites, even in their country. 25 And they beat down the cities, and on every good piece of land cast every man his stone, and filled it; and they stopped all the wells of water, and felled all the good trees: only in Kirharaseth left they the stones thereof; howbeit the slingers went about it, and smote it. 26 And when the king of Moab saw that the battle was too sore for him, he took with him seven hundred men that drew swords, to break through even unto the king of Edom: but they could not. 27 Then he took his eldest son that should have reigned in his stead, and offered him for a burnt offering upon the wall. And there was great indignation against Israel: and they departed from him, and returned to their own land.
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