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Armageddon comes in two phases...


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1 hour ago, Arauna said:

 There is no time in heaven but Jehovah puts everything in a timeline for us humans here on earth.... so I rephrase what I said above so that you can understand it:  Jehovah allowed Moses to write down what happened in heaven about Job,  so we know that this incident happened in the lifetime of Moses, or just before, in the area of Oz. 

I think you should read the definitions of spiritual, literal, symbolic, before you write another article again.  the meaning of spiritual means it is how it affects a person themself. So when you use this word in a sloppy way it could mean that the person only experienced the event within themself and it was not a real event outside the person.  I tried to indicate to you there is a difference in the meanings but you are too stubborn to even look up  if you could have been wrong.   I could be wrong too....... but I am humble enough to acknowledge it if I make a mistake....... are you?


On 8/25/2022 at 3:05 AM, Arauna said:

The earthly time of Job was just before Moses came to Oz.... so we can place these literal events in a earthly time frame.  (There is no physical time in heaven).

10 hours ago, BroRando said:

Not according to scripture. "However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day." (2 Peter 3:8)

Now, this imposter uses No Scripture to support her wrong opinion. and claims she is humble.  Yet, when the Apostle Paul pointed out that Peter stood condemned.. Peter did not condemn Paul but called him a beloved brother. Peter did not make a false accusation and claim Paul personally slandered him. Just like Satan, you refuse to be corrected and now fighting against Holy Spirit. I will not stop you. Go ahead if your pride is that important to you.

Galatian 2:11  However, when Ceʹphas came to Antioch, I resisted him face-to-face, because he was clearly in the wrong.* 12  For before certain men from James arrived, he used to eat with people of the nations; but when they arrived, he stopped doing this and separated himself, fearing those of the circumcised class.t 13  The rest of the Jews also joined him in putting on this pretense, so that even Barʹna·bas was led along with them in their pretense. 14  But when I saw that they were not walking in step with the truth of the good news, I said to Ceʹphas before them all: “If you, though you are a Jew, live as the nations do and not as Jews do, how can you compel people of the nations to live according to Jewish practice?”

2 Peter 3:15  Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him, 16  speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant* and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.


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More than enough scriptures were used at the convention.  I am not a teacher or a debater on this forum. I give logical opinions - that is it. You can take up some of the thoughts which are in li

Ok, I referred to our recent 3- day convention which you are not taking into consideration. . My language was not perfect, I agree, just as yours does not properly define literal and spiritual events.

I dunno. In that case we’d all be disciples of you-know-who, who quotes scriptures by the truckload but they never apply.

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42 minutes ago, BroRando said:

Now, this imposter uses No Scripture to support her wrong opinion.

You use tons of scriptures and make an independent (self-willed) conclusion. Your own  conclusion is more important than Jehovahs word. 

Have you looked up the definitions of the words you misused.... or are you too proud?  English is not my first language and I can tell you that you create the wrong impression by using the wrong words....no scriptures needed to tell you that! 

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39 minutes ago, Arauna said:

You use tons of scriptures and make an independent (self-willed) conclusion. Your own  conclusion is more important than Jehovahs word. 

Have you looked up the definitions of the words you misused.... or are you too proud?  English is not my first language and I can tell you that you create the wrong impression by using the wrong words....no scriptures needed to tell you that! 

Again no scriptures. You learned from your apostate friends.  You'll be removed from the Congregation soon enough.  Maybe you already have?

You're not a Jehovah Witness. Trying to fool Holy Spirit will not go well for you.   But Peter said: “An·a·niʹas, why has Satan emboldened you to lie to the holy spirit and secretly hold back some of the price of the field? (Acts 5:3)

You have certainly been embolden by Satan, but your pride blinds you and now the drifting away begins because you can't see the unseen things.

2 Corinthians 4:18

while we keep our eyes, not on the things seen, but on the things unseen. For the things seen are temporary, but the things unseen are everlasting.

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12 minutes ago, Arauna said:

You quote the scriptures with weird apostate explanations.  Is the pot calling the kettle black?

Ahhhh... so you are admitting you are on the outside of our inner rooms.   Looking for a way to sneak in?  It won't work. 

Hebrews 10:26  For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, 27  but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a burning indignation that is going to consume those in opposition.

Hebrews 6:4 For as regards those who were once enlightened and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit 5  and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things,* 6  but have fallen away, it is impossible to revive them again to repentance, because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame.


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On 8/23/2022 at 11:22 PM, Arauna said:

Gog of Magog, at the end of the millenium, will be a similar united resistance movement against jehovah  but it is not a  second phase of "Armageddon".  It will be an attempt to take over with human rule..... just like Adam and Eve did.  But the scale of suffering and a great tribulation such as the world had never seen before, will not be associated with it. 

No. Gog of Magog (Satan's Entire Political System of things) is destroyed in the First Phase of Armageddon. Then, Jehovah's People will be protected during this period of a thousand years for several reasons.

  • “No more will there be an infant from that place who lives but a few days, Nor an old man who fails to live out his days. For anyone who dies at a hundred will be considered a mere boy, And the sinner will be cursed, even though he is a hundred years of age." (Isaiah 65:20)
  •  "All the peoples of the earth will have to see that Jehovah’s name has been called upon you, and they will be afraid of you." (Deuteronomy 28:10)
  • "They will not cause any harm Or any ruin in all my holy mountain, Because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah As the waters cover the sea." (Isaiah 11:9)

As for the second Phase of Armageddon, Jehovah will destroy Gog and Magog with LITERAL fire and consume the rebels after the 1,000 years. "Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea." (Rev 20:7-8)

So....after the 1,000 years, does Gog and Magog (Rebels) die off. They die the second death as Adam and Eve did, but they do not die off little by little, but rather they are destroyed literally for all to SEE. "But fire came down out of heaven and consumed them." (Rev 20:9)

So what the difference?  Jehovah destroyed Adam and Eve in the day of a thousand years he allotted them to produce offspring. "So all the days of Adam’s life amounted to 930 years, and then he died." (Genesis 5:5)

Those who die during Christ's Millennial Reign are brought to nothing because Jehovah promised, "they will not cause any harm Or any ruin in all my holy mountain."

But after the 1,000 years, the judgment day has concluded and Jesus 'hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.' (1 Corinthians 15:24)  

Therefore, anyone rejecting Jehovah's Sovereignty will be destroyed literally. "But fire came down out of heaven and consumed them." (Rev 20:9)



During the first phase, under the direction of Jesus, angels will “separate the wicked from among the righteous” and destroy them. (Mt 13:40-42, 49)  Those alive who are 'wicked' when the Great Tribulation begins, die off.  Whether the 70 or 80 years of lifespan are cut down in the same manner when Jesus destroyed unfaithful Israel to 40 years in the wilderness is possible, but we do not know. Not everyone will be the age of zero but may be of all ages even 80 or older.  At any rate, their death could be sped up if they try to do harm to the Great Crowd. That would definitely speed up their death... instead of dying off.

However, before the second phase of destruction begins. Jesus 'hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.' (1 Corinthians 15:24)  Since Jesus and the 144,000 brought mankind to Perfection in the manner that Adam and Eve had it, prior to sinning. Such one's will have the prospect of everlasting life.

The sad thing is, they (Gog and Magog) choose to follow in the same footsteps of Adam and Eve and rebel with the result being catastrophic and instant.  It's JEHOVAH himself that destroys them before an audience of Earthy and Heavenly Subjects. 

After all, isn't Armageddon associated with fire and the second death?  To claim the wicked will not be destroyed after the 1,000 years have ended would be in error.

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On 8/26/2022 at 12:30 PM, BroRando said:

you are admitting you are on the

You have shown what you are sir.  You have been exposed as an  egotistical..... puffed up.....human being.   When someone does not agree with you .....you take the route of personal insults, false accusations and twisting of the others person's words to get a  cheap "win"' at any cost.  You protect your ideas asif they were the bible itself.

Satan also quoted Jehovahs words and put a deceitful spin on it.... as he did with Eve.  Quoting the bible and putting false reasoning with it  - is not a truth. 

I have always been polite and put some reply on your "icons to your greatness "  on this forum to get a conversation going.... but now I realized..... you are not interested in an honest discussion of your "not-so-well-thought out ideas" .... You do not want any discussion on this forum........of any of your teachings.

You want your  words hanging here untouched  as a picture icon of your greatness.  And if someone upsets your apple cart and finds a dent in your reasoning -  you show a very ugly side to your personality.


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Jesus told the crowds all these things in parables, and he did not tell them anything without a parable35 so that what was spoken through the prophet might be fulfilled:

I will open my mouth in parables;
I will declare things kept secret
from the foundation of the world.   Matt 13:34,35

The meaning of the Greek word rendered “parable” –  "a comparing, comparison of one thing with another, likeness, similitude".

Matt 24 speaks of factors, segments, that comprise an event that one of you says is spiritual – “birth pains”.  I agree. But… how can the factors themselves, which cause symbolic, spiritual “birth pains” be taken literally?  There is no consistency in that reasoning.  Jesus, who spoke in parables, said that the coming of the kingdom will not arrive with observation.  He told his disciples/apostles that the kingdom is “within you”, “in your midst”. (Luke 17:20,21)

Those anointed in Jesus day, and the anointed today, are under the woman covenant, (Gal 4:26); they experience the spiritual signs said to be “birth pains”. In Revelation it is this “woman” promise and those under that promise, that are giving “birth”; collectively and individually giving “birth” to the Kingdom. (Gal 4:19) The Kingdom was not “born” in heaven in 1914, otherwise all the sealed anointed would be ruling with Jesus Christ and God Kingdom would be here.

Besides, one of you is saying there is another “birth” about to happen.  Two births?  Just like two Armageddons? 

Satan’s “showy display” of literal war, pestilence, famine, earthquakes, etc., cannot attribute to spiritual “birth pains”.  His “world” will not be giving birth to the Kingdom.  JWs give Satan more attention than Jesus Christ and the anointed members of his Body, who comprise the spiritual Temple.  Why are you looking at Satan’s world for the coming of the Kingdom of God, when Jesus said his kingdom is NO PART OF THIS WORLD? Again, he said to his disciples, "the kingdom is within you" - they will be experience the birth pains.  Satan has the ability manipulate the spiritual signs by making them visible, as physical signs in his realm.  

“Earthquakes in various places”, that affect the heart –Job 37:1,2; Ezek 38:18,19; Isa 64:1,2; Hag 2:7; Amos 9:9; Heb 12:25-27 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+37%3A1%2C2%3B+Ezek+38%3A18%2C19%3B+Isa+64%3A1%2C2%3B+Hag+2%3A7%3B+Amos+9%3A9%3B+Heb+12%3A25-27&version=NKJV

Since Rev 12:2 tells us it is those under the new covenant “woman” who are experiencing these birth pains, the signs are significantly felt by the anointed “Israel”.

Yet, even those residing with them will experience some of their effects.    

“Nations will rise against nations, kingdom against kingdom”.  JWs are from all nations of the world.  From opposite sides of the globe, you two are warring with each other over interpretation of scripture.

Matt 24:6 – “And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars”.

 I “war” against the teachings of the GB – they “war” against myself, Pearl, Rachel and other so-called “apostates”.  Apostates are “warring” with each other.  JWs “war” against apostates.  It is a war of words pertaining to truth, or lies; doctrines taught by the governing body, and the uprising it causes against their falsehoods.  And certainly, the uprising is kingdom against kingdom – the “kings of the earth” which are Christ’s anointed kings.  (1 Pet 2:5,9; Rev 1:5;5:9,10) Just read the scriptures to SEE that you are wrong in applying the "kings of the earth" to the world's rulers. 

What does the GB do to retaliate in this war of words? Hire lawyers to support their desire to sue individuals; and do their best to shut people up, and shut them down.  Can you imagine Jesus taking people to court over what he taught?  

Thomas Jefferson:  “It is error alone which needs the support of governmentTruth can stand by itself”.

But while JWs are in the middle of this spiritual war, they still believe that Satan’s theatrical display is part of symbolic “birth pains”.

If you say you believe in the word of God, then listen to what it says!

“ For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ”  2 Cor 2:3-5

“Famines” - “Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord God,
“That I will send a famine on the land,
Not a famine of bread,
Nor a thirst for water,
But of hearing the words of the Lord.”  Amos 8:11

Why would the anointed “Israel” in the last days be suffering from not hearing the words of the Lord?  Check your Belief Clarified list!  Recall all your failed doctrines, dates, inability to understand the meaning “this generation”, the locusts of Joel, just to name a few recent ones.  1914 is a LIE.  

Matt 24:24,25 – more signs that affect the anointed “elect”; and are the reason for the existence of spiritual famine and pestilences in the organization.(1 Tim 4:1)

“Pestilences” –“And their scribes and the Pharisees complained against His disciples, saying, “Why do You eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?”

31 Jesus answered and said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”  Luke 5:30-32

Under false teachers, false prophets, truth has been thrown down to the ground. (Dan 8:12) Evidence is in the trail of failed teachings.  The anointed are silenced – people who have the spirit of truth in their heart, but are not allowed to meet together, not allowed to contribute spiritual food. (1 John 2:20)  Who does?  Elders, not anointed, who have not had God’s spirit poured into their hearts. (Rom 5:5) Are the anointed priests able to teach God’s word as scripture says they should? (Mal 2:7) Can they provide the healing words of Jesus Christ?  Are they able to provide their spiritual sacrifices of praise by doing so? No, the elders have taken over that role, just like Korah desired to usurp the priesthood in Moses' day.  2 Thess 2:3,4

“In the rebellion, the army was given up, together with the regular sacrifice. The horn threw truth to the ground and was successful in what it did.”  Dan 8:12

This is why you have spiritual famine and pestilence in the organization.  You are blind to the need of truth from Jesus Christ (Rev 3:17-19), who would provide his priests with the spiritual food to feed all under an authentic faithful and discreet slave/steward of God’s household (Eph 2:20-22)…IF the anointed turned to him, and away from false prophets.  Matt 24:45-51

“Lawlessness” - "Because lawlessness will multiply, the love of many will grow cold.” 

Lack of love is lawlessness, according to Jesus Christ.  Matt 24:12  The laws of God are fulfilled in love through Christ. (Rom 13:8)  If God’s laws are not taught, which they aren’t in the Wt., then lawlessness thrives, which it does. The organization easily disfellowships people, cutting off all acts love, even to one’s child. You will say God’s laws ARE taught.  No, because the teachers who have His laws written in their hearts, have been silenced. (Heb 8:10) The GB “rule”, and dismiss their brothers and sisters in Christ. It is they, who have made the decree that the anointed cannot “bond” together.  Is that an act of love shown for the anointed Body of Christ?  (1 Cor 12)   The spiritual Temple that they represent, has been trampled by the elders who replaced them as priests.  1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:1,2   An idol/organization has taken its place.  Rom 1:25; Rev 13:1,2,5-7; 16:13-16  And now your fake priests serve the idol.  

Ezek 44:6-9 - “Say to the rebellious people, the house of Israel, ‘This is what the Lord God says: I have had enough of all your detestable practices, house of Israel. When you brought in foreigners, uncircumcised in both heart and flesh, (not anointed elders)  to occupy my sanctuary, you defiled my temple while you offered my food—the fat and the blood. You broke my covenant by all your detestable practicesYou have not kept charge of my holy things but have appointed others to keep charge of my sanctuary for you.’

“This is what the Lord God says: No foreigner, uncircumcised in heart and flesh, may enter my sanctuary, not even a foreigner who is among the Israelites.

"Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!'  Matt 7:22,23

JWs reside with the “disgusting thing standing in the holy place”; the holy place is  the Temple of God.  That “disgusting” abomination of desolation is described above in Ezek 44:6-9.  It is the same abomination that Daniel and the apostle John said would occur in the last days.

Again, what is desolated? The Temple of God, made of “living stones” in the anointed. People are downtrodden, threatened with expulsion and loss of family by a wicked slave who demands obedience to whatever teachings and decrees they may dish out. (Matt 24:48-51)  And yet all of you look to Satan’s world for the fulfillment of Matt 24.  Everything, every word Jesus spoke in Matt 24, applies to God's "Israel" and those who are with them.  

If anyone can perceive the presence of the abomination of desolation, you are to flee. Dan 11:31; Matt 24:15,16; Mark 13:14; 2 Thess 2:3,4,9-12; Rev 11:1-3; 18:4-8; 14:6-11

Armageddon happens just once, in the symbolic “valley of decision” – a war of truth against lies.  Joel 3:14  There is no other "Armageddon" a thousand years after the Kingdom comes. God's promise made in Rev 21, are steadfast and true.

God is not a man, that he might lie,
or a son of man, that he might change his mind.
Does he speak and not act,
or promise and not fulfill?  Num 23:19


The Disgusting Thing














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On 8/25/2022 at 11:11 AM, Peter Carroll said:

ovide the scipture not your opinion

You are supposed to know it:

Revelation 19: 19 onward " And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the one seated on the horse and against his army.+ 20  And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet+ that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast+ and those who worship its image.+ While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur.+ 21  But the rest were killed off with the long sword that proceeded out of the mouth of the one seated on the horse.+ And all the birds were filled with their flesh."

1Sam 17: 46 " This very day Jehovah will surrender you into my hand,+ and I will strike you down and cut off your head; and on this day I will give the corpses of the camp of the Phi·lisʹtines to the birds of the heavens and to the wild beasts of the earth; and people of all the earth will know that there is a God in Israel."

Birds of prey is a symbolic way of saying: real living corpses that can be eaten - meaning literal death.  

Jer 7: 33

"And the dead bodies of this people will become food for the birds of the heavens and for the beasts of the earth, with no one to frighten them away".

These are figurative depictions of literal events that will take place = people will lose their lives and be viewed as  eaten by unclean birds.  




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As a 75 year old person who has been blind, twice, I recommend to see an opthamologist and get a Rx for Pilocarpine 2% eye drops. I have been using them for 17 years, and they dramatically improve your “depth of field”. Without glasses I can see leaves on trees and power lines 400 feet away, and close up see the texture of currency 7 inches away.  PLUS outdoors it’s like having built-in sunglasses, and bright lights don’t bother you anymore.

In Camera terms it’s like the difference between f:2.8, and f:16. 

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On 8/28/2022 at 1:50 AM, Arauna said:

I often write very late at night due to  our time difference

The neat thing about the internet is it doesn’t matter. Write what you write and go to bed. I’ll make sure the ruffians don’t erase it while you sleep. Then when you wake and see ten dumb comments appended to your remark, blast away.

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