Like the Days of Noah...

[Arauna]

On 7/28/2021 at 12:17 PM, BroRando said:

disgusting thing is certainly disgusting in its fight against the

I think there are 6 scriptures referring to the disgusting thing of destruction standing in the holy place.... Rome first decimated all surrounding cities before it came for Jerusalem.  Similarly today the modern day disgusting thing will decimate before it turns on the people of Jehovah. The UN  is this destructive force. They are destroying fresh water dams in USA - letting fresh water run into the sea and soon to remove dams.  Farmers will not have water.... supply chains of meat are decimated etc.  .... all for their Agenda 2030 plan.   Much decimation and suffering lies ahead.  Jehovah will judge these elites pushing this new secular world order. 

[BroRando]

31 minutes ago, Arauna said:

I think there are 6 scriptures referring to the disgusting thing of destruction standing in the holy place.... Rome first decimated all surrounding cities before it came for Jerusalem.  Similarly today the modern day disgusting thing will decimate before it turns on the people of Jehovah. The UN  is this destructive force. They are destroying fresh water dams in USA - letting fresh water run into the sea and soon to remove dams.  Farmers will not have water.... supply chains of meat are decimated etc.  .... all for their Agenda 2030 plan.   Much decimation and suffering lies ahead.  Jehovah will judge these elites pushing this new secular world order. 

 

17 Goals to Transform Our World, the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development. The Sustainable Development Goals are a call for action by all countries – poor, rich and middle-income – to promote prosperity while protecting the planet. They recognize that ending poverty must go hand-in-hand with strategies that build economic growth and address a range of social needs including education, health, social protection, and job opportunities, while tackling climate change and environmental protection." Therefore the prophecy, "It puts under compulsion all people—the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves—that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead, and that nobody can buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name" at (Rev 13:16-17) will have come in Full Force. A door to door enforcement if need be.

Read more...

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

17 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

International Bible Students had since pass. Where have you been?

http://www.internationalbiblestudents.org/

Who are the Bible Students?"

The association of International Bible Students has existed continuously since the days of Pastor Charles Taze Russell to the present. In Brother Russell's day, the IBSA was a cooperative association of Bible Student congregations worldwide, all united by the common beliefs taught in Brother Russell's Studies in the Scriptures series. The Watchtower was merely a publishing house and lecture service, with NO central control over these thousands of associated, but independent congregations.

I presume this is out of date then ? 

 

[Space Merchant]

38 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

http://www.internationalbiblestudents.org/

Who are the Bible Students?"

The association of International Bible Students has existed continuously since the days of Pastor Charles Taze Russell to the present. In Brother Russell's day, the IBSA was a cooperative association of Bible Student congregations worldwide, all united by the common beliefs taught in Brother Russell's Studies in the Scriptures series. The Watchtower was merely a publishing house and lecture service, with NO central control over these thousands of associated, but independent congregations.

I presume this is out of date then ? 

 

lol you can't be serious? The link says international bible students, but the website in question is an archived database of what the IBSA was when it existed. IF you are trying to humor me, you just did.

Evidence to that is archived information with no updates, the website even tells you they do not produce anything. That statement you stated says who are the Bible students, it does not make any indication of the IBSA itself, granted, from the IBSA several groups were formed, in this case, the Jehovah's Witnesses.

More so history isn't your strong point, and you simply set yourself up badly here.

There has not been any update on that website, and it has a collection and even archives of what was professed by them and others, i.e. links takes you elsewhere to information that isn't in associated with IBSA. The links relay to other sources that isn't of IBSA, more so, does not even associate with IBSA. and it is not secure (very telling when source is checked, meaning anything can be put there).

Something tells me you pulled the first item off of a google search, when to the "about" page to copy that quote. Therefore - You sought to Excalibur, but you found a wooden sword instead.

This also pushes the fact that to Res Lite's credit, and the evidence, the group broken into different groups, as shown here, this picture below can also be found online for the general public to see.

There are 5 Associated Bible Students, DBSA is included among them, then there are the Free Bible Students, 3, making it a total of 8. Max number being 11, which includes the Laymen's, Jehovah's Witnesses, and The Free Man Group. There are other groups that came out of the Associated and Free branches, but I am focusing on the early ones of which DBSA is a part of.

 

                                   

 

That being said, you walked into a bear trap with this one for your claim. Let's see if you can hold to your so called source.

2 Questions for you since you provided this link:

Question 1 - If the IBSA is present today as you claim, then why do Free and Associated Bible Students and the latter, such as groups similar to DBSA exist after the schisms?? If the IBSA existed, there wouldn't be a need for such groups and JWs would not even be here. 

Question - 2 From your link, as you claim the IBSA is active today, can you name a few updates from the years 2020 and 2021? What updates have they done so far concerning God and or Scripture (Remember - the IBSA was a unified group since it's inception)? I can give you a list of DBSA activities [1950-1963], even recent updates [2020-2021], I have information on the other ones, but since I brought forth Res Lite, he will be my example. They differ from other Bible Students as well as the JWs themselves.

In fact, here is the most recent information about them:

Quote

• Today the Dawn continue publication of Russell's Studies in the Scriptures, as well as booklets written by various Bible Students. They also produce radio and television programs.

 

• Current membership in America is difficult to estimate from the number of conventions. In the late 1980s they had a membership of about 60,000.

 

• In 2007 The Dawn Magazine 75th Anniversary 1932–2007 gave a brief history of the group.

 

• DBSA actually has a notable location - Longwood, FL

Clearly this group is active.

So I will wait since you want to make make the claim.

As pointed out,

You'll have to explain why you suggest the IBSA exist today when there are different associated and free Bible students that came out of them, as well as the JWs. For if they existed, the JWs may not have even been existing as we speak.

Second, you stated they are active despite the fact their time has passed. If they are active as you claim, can you bring up any recent activity from them, by quotation and a source?

That is what is on the table right now.

I'll wait. and there is a meme for that one too, which seems to be right for this occasion:

                                                         

 

Also other facts, which shows us the IBSA eventually broke into various groups (You do not have to read it but it is here so people can see your folly)

Quote

1909 - Even when Russell was still alive, some Bible Students didn’t accept a new understanding and decided to move away. They are called the “Free Bible Students”, and it seems most of them are in Australia. It is claimed that there are more that 100 members today.

In April they decide to publish their own magazine and set up their own society in lieu of the Watch Tower Society, called the Pastoral Bible Institute. But Johnson and one of the three remaining directors objected that a new Society was unscriptural because it contradicted certain interpretations of Bible prophecies by Johnson. Johnson is reproved for spreading his own teachings without the approval of the committee.

In November Johnson decided to publish a periodical to counter the Watch Tower and the PBI and to present the epiphany truths that, from his standpoint, are a further development of the parousia truths. By 1920 he had set up his own entity called Laymen’s Home Missionary Movement, whose doctrine is seen as the extension of that of Russell.

In Portland, in December, some Bible Students considered that the Watch Tower wasn’t firmly enough against the war and formed their own group, called the Stand Fast Bible Students Association. The Elijah Voice Society would be created in 1923 to try to join together the different congregations, but I think this group hasn’t survived.

In December, the Pastoral Bible Institute began publishing their own magazine, The Herald. It is still published on the Internet.

Also, in Australia it was created the Berean Bible Institute, for those congregations of Bible Students which didn’t accept the Watch Tower Society. Today it is estimated that there are still several dozens of members.

 

[Pudgy]

I have carefully read the preceding conspiracy theories, opinions, conjectures, observations, wild-ass guesses, and delusional paranoid nattering nabobs of negativity, and would like to offer an alternative explanations to the more prevalent fantasys being extolled and advocated here .........

 

.... words are often a mere shadow of their true meaning ....

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

23 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

That is what is on the table right now.

Thank you for all the information, and i stand corrected. You are right I don't dig deep enough. 

OK, even the meme is funny.  On this occasion I bow to your superior knowledge. Thank you. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems the name still exists though but as part of the JW Org. 

https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-details/?regid=216647&subid=0

INTERNATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS ASSOCIATION

Charity number 216647 

Activities - how the charity spends its money

Promoting the Christian religion by helping congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses & others with their spiritual & material welfare. We provide facilities for the production of Bible literature & housing for members of the order of special full-time servants. Conventions for Christian education are arranged & the public are invited.

Income and expenditure

Data for financial year ending 31 August 2020

-------------------------------------------------

They also run an Estate agents (Real estate?) business selling property too. https://ibsaproperty.com/

------------------------------------------

But that is all off topic, and as I say I stand corrected. 

 

 

[Space Merchant]

@Patiently waiting for Truth The Jehovah's Witnesses were AFTER the Schisms, 3 of them to be exact. Likewise with the other groups, even the DBSA. 

And no, do not make assumptions, that information only took 2 minutes of research, that is elementary knowledge just by the history itself.

If you forgot, here is the image again, you should know this because you are a former Jehovah's Witness, granted you always said because you were once part of the faith, you knew everything:

                         

You made the claim that the IBSA still exist, it was already known of Associated and Free Bible Students, and how the JWs came to be as noted below:

19 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

There are 5 Associated Bible Students, DBSA is included among them, then there are the Free Bible Students, 3, making it a total of 8. Max number being 11, which includes the Laymen's, Jehovah's Witnesses, and The Free Man Group. There are other groups that came out of the Associated and Free branches, but I am focusing on the early ones of which DBSA is a part of.

So you are attempting to justify a UK only based Charity? Your own quotation kills your resolve:

8 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Promoting the Christian religion by helping congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses & others with their spiritual & material welfare. We provide facilities for the production of Bible literature & housing for members of the order of special full-time servants. Conventions for Christian education are arranged & the public are invited.

You were asked on activities, not names also...

Not to mention your link leads to sources that shows Data analytics for for financials, you were asked on recent activities of the IBSA itself (of which you claim are still active DESPITE the schisms), as in gospel preaching and the like. Not to mention you deliberately, and knowingly went around history to justify misinformation. That is essentially lying on purpose.

As a side note, your original link has no connection at all, so it shows you are just looking for something to justify nothing.

That being said, the focus originally was about FACTS over OPINION. Just this IBSA thing alone, you made an unproven statement. You later tried to use the above to justify yourself which ultimately puts you in error.

Again, misinformation, misconception, opinions with no factual backing.

You asked before what it takes to achieve knowledge and or understanding of core teachings, the answer was very simple - Research. In this case, only a few seconds of searching, which you could have done instead of jumping to your own conclusions, which was seen as a bluff.

What makes it even worse now, in regards to Witness' remark, you just proved the GB to be in the right when it comes to people jumping to conclusions without having all the facts and going about listening to misinformation to draw your own conclusion, mainly from things that former witnesses use and conjure up some narrative to intertwined it with something; mixing what is seen by the public with false information.

There is a saying we have in the US, that fits this type of situation - Congratulations, you just played yourself. 

Anyway, it is very easy to find the activities of the other groups in regards to their gospel spreading, etc. as is the difference between them; from the Associated Bible Student Factions and the Free Bible Student Factions, as well as apart from the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Free Man group, again with DBSA, their recent activities, in example (http://www.dawnbible.com/2021/2108cl-1.htm), likewise with what was quoted before.

That real estate notation is irrelevant. If it was International (definition - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/international), it would not be secluded to the UK only, likewise with your latter link, which goes a contradiction on your part.

That being said, if the IBSA existed today, there wouldn't even be groups that came out of it, which is why I asked you to answer question 1 and 2. IBSA would still be active, even maintain their Restorationists roots and go about how those in Restorationism operate - The DBSA would not exist, The Layman's and the Free Man, or any of the Associated/Free Bible Student groups would not exist because they'd all already be under the umbrella of the IBSA, an international group with the same motive and operation. Even the Jehovah's Witnesses would not exist, nor the name "Jehovah's Witnesses" would ever be given at all. There wouldn't be any Schisms, no Rutherford or anyone else, etc. But that, my friend, is in a different realm of reality, an imaginative one, a "What If" type situation.

When you discover time travel, JB, perhaps you can do whatever you wish, alter the timeline so to speak.

All that said, you show yourself an example of someone who goes about unproven things, misinformation and the like - and now, it is shown for all to see, so you should have kept that IBSA card tucked away in your pockets, so to speak.

[Space Merchant]

10 hours ago, Pudgy said:

I have carefully read the preceding conspiracy theories, opinions, conjectures, observations, wild-ass guesses, and delusional paranoid nattering nabobs of negativity, and would like to offer an alternative explanations to the more prevalent fantasys being extolled and advocated here .........

 

.... words are often a mere shadow of their true meaning ....

I can relate to that because I have debated conspiracy theorists before, the legit ones, not the the alleged ones the MSM brands people.

Sadly, but true, there are conspiracy theorists in the Abrahamic Faiths (i.e. those who believe God as given people superpowers by means of magic.... Yeah it gets that weird), some of which, I had mentioned before.

That being said, this "IBSA conspiracy" can be considered debunked.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

15 hours ago, Pudgy said:

words are often a mere shadow of their true meaning ...

Scott Adams has a good gig going. 

[Arauna]

The premier sign of hate - OCD........is the following symptom.: no matter what the subject ..... you shall find a way to push your hate agenda - related to the subject or not.    The subject is irrelevant -it is the overpowering desire of hate that always wins and its repetitive nature of the disorder.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

                       

And you presume that people studying the Bible with JWs were ever taught this ?

Well not here in the UK. not back in the 1960's / 70's. 

Do you think this is taught in Kingdom Halls or via vidoe link now ?  

The JW teaching was, and probably still is, that it was a smooth transition from Rusell to Rutherford then to the JW org. 

I don't think you gave a link as to where this diagram came from., but I see it's on Wikipedia.... 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

                       

And you presume that people studying the Bible with JWs were ever taught this ?

Well not here in the UK. not back in the 1960's / 70's. 

Do you think this is taught in Kingdom Halls or via vidoe link now ?  

The JW teaching was, and probably still is, that it was a smooth transition from Rusell to Rutherford then to the JW org. 

I don't think you gave a link as to where this diagram came from., but I see it's on Wikipedia.... 

The manner and purpose of conducting a “Bible study” with people interested in the JW religion is not to get to know how the WT Society came into being, it is not the history of the Organization as a Corporation.

The purpose of “studying” is to reject “wrong” religious or secular ideologies and to fully accept WTJWorg theology. Some details of the Organization's historical transitions can be found in other WTJWorg publications, but comprehensive and/or complete insight cannot be gained by reading a single book that would provide a complete historical overview with all the details. After all, history is written by “winners”. And that most often means that the truth will be distorted or significantly changed.

PS

"Proclaimers" book, for example, dealing with historical overview of Corporation. But is not available on every language and by that not for every JW member in the World. Even if it is available on language of some JW member that would not mean she/he would read it and find some gaps and questions about Organization.

For sure they will not find "diagram" as showed here.