New Light: Fruitage Does Not Refer to Results

[Queen Esther]

NEW UNDERSTANDING, THAT ALMOST HAPPENS INADVERTED.....
At the last meeting of the Watchtower, we were considering the article "Jehovah loves those who" bear fruit with endurance "
In this article a new understanding on the part of the slave was opened to our mind.
Paragraph 9 specifically says:
"What is the fruit that we must produce?" Without a doubt, it must be something that we can all carry out, and what work has Jehovah commanded us all his servants? The preaching of the message of the Kingdom.
Not many brothers and sisters captured this new understanding since they even came to quote me at the end of the meeting, an appointment that was made precisely the previous meeting based on a 2008 Watchtower, which says:

8:15. To be one of those who "retain [the word] and bear fruit with endurance", we must understand, assimilate and recognize the value of the Word of God. When we read the Bible and Christian publications, we need to pray and meditate.
The first type of terrain is hard, the second is shallow and the third is full of thorns. The fourth, on the other hand, is a good land that produces fruit (Luke 8: 8). Remember that the sower of the parable can not control the results. Knowing this comforts all Christians and in particular those who have been many years, even decades, preaching faithfully without much apparent results. Why is that fact comforting them? The sower's fidelity is not measured by the results of their work. This was confirmed by Paul when he said: "Each person will receive his own reward according to his own work" (1 Corinthians 3: 8). What is rewarded is the work, not the results
A sower of the word may not see that his work is bearing much fruit; however, that does not mean that you have been less diligent or faithful than others
(end of quote)

According to the brothers, what was said in paragraph 9 of the study of the Watchtower IS THE SAME thing that the Watchtower of 2008 already said. Even the one in 2010 and the one in 2015, said the same thing.
BUT THEY ARE IN AN ERROR

It really does not say the same thing. Let's look good.
According to these ancient Watchtowers, what is called FRUIT? TO THE RESULTS, to the disciples. Therefore, the slave used to say that we should not worry if we do not get much fruit in the form of disciples.

But now, the new understanding, makes us see that the FRUIT IS THE OWN PREACHING and that the seed that we sow, does not produce fruits, but more seeds.
This understanding is more adjusted to Jehovah's way of thinking, where endurance applies more to the fruit of PREACHING, and is what our Father rewards.

[Evacuated]

On 7/17/2018 at 7:59 PM, Queen Esther said:

the new understanding,

It may be for many that this is a new understanding.

However, the thought has been expressed with varying degrees of clarity over the years. I thought this quote from the 2003 WT  in a discussion of John 15:8 was pretty clear:

*** w03 2/1 pp. 20-21 pars. 9-11 “Keep Bearing Much Fruit” ***

9 To answer properly, we need first to understand what constitutes Kingdom fruitage. Would it be correct to conclude that bearing fruit means making disciples? (Matthew 28:19) Does the fruit that we would bear refer primarily to individuals whom we help to become baptized worshipers of Jehovah? No. If that were the case, the situation would be deeply discouraging for all those dear Witnesses who have been faithfully proclaiming the Kingdom message for years in less responsive territories. Why, if the Kingdom fruit that we bear is represented only by new disciples, such hardworking Witnesses would be like the barren branches in Jesus’ illustration! Of course, that is not the case. Then, what is the primary Kingdom fruitage of our ministry?

Fruitful by Spreading Kingdom Seed

10 Jesus’ illustration of the sower and the different types of soil points to the answer—a heartening answer for those who witness in less productive territories. Jesus said that the seed is the Kingdom message found in God’s Word and that the soil represents man’s figurative heart. Some seed “fell upon the good soil, and, after sprouting, it produced fruit.” (Luke 8:8) What fruit? Well, after a wheat stalk sprouts and matures, it produces as fruit, not little wheat stalks, but new seed. Likewise, a Christian produces as fruit, not necessarily new disciples, but new Kingdom seed.

11 Therefore, the fruitage in this case is neither new disciples nor fine Christian qualities. Since the seed that is sown is the word of the Kingdom, the fruitage must be a manyfold duplication of that seed. The bearing of fruitage in this case refers to making expressions about the Kingdom. (Matthew 24:14).

Where there is a bit of a change of emphasis is the inclusion of this footnote on p.14 in the 2018 WT article:

While “bearing fruit” also applies to producing “the fruitage of the spirit,” in this article and the next, we focus on producing “the fruit of our lips,” or Kingdom preaching.—Gal. 5:22, 23; Heb. 13:15.

This in itself is not new, but does appear to contradict the statement in para 11 of the 2003 article (the fruitage in this case is neither new disciples nor fine Christian qualities), and is a return to the thought expressed in a number of earlier (ancient) articles which include the "fuitage of the  sprit" with the "fruitage of lips" as appropriate evidences of active Kingdom seed. For example:

*** w83 8/15 p. 23 par. 14 United Fruit Bearers ***
they must “keep bearing much fruit.” This they do by producing Christlike qualities of the new personality, including “the fruitage of the spirit.” (Galatians 5:22, 23; Matthew 28:19, 20; Colossians 3:5-14) But to be really fruitful they give active expression  to such qualities by sharing in the work of preaching “this good news.” (Matthew 24:14)

*** w60 9/1 p. 537 par. 6 Awake Worshipers in the Time of the End ***
 However, the one who hears the Word of truth and gets the sense of it really does bear fruit of a right kind. He brings forth in his life fruitage of Christian qualities, referred to at John 15:8, and which brings glory to the Father. He is consistent in offering “to God a sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of lips which make public declaration to his name.” (Heb. 13:15) 

This inclusion of the fruitage of the spirit along with the preaching was reintroduced in WTs in 2004 and 2011:

*** w04 1/1 p. 9 par. 4 Let All Declare the Glory of Jehovah ***
4 Jesus Christ told us how to glorify God. He said: “My Father is glorified in this, that you keep bearing much fruit and prove yourselves my disciples.” (John 15:8) How do we bear much fruit? First, by sharing whole-souled in preaching the “good news of the kingdom” and thus joining with all created things in “telling” about God’s “invisible qualities.” (Matthew 24:14; Romans 1:20) Moreover, in this way we all have a share—directly or indirectly—in the making of new disciples who swell the chorus of praise to Jehovah God. Second, we cultivate the fruitage produced in us by holy spirit and strive to imitate Jehovah God’s superlative qualities. (Galatians 5:22, 23; Ephesians 5:1; Colossians 3:10) As a result, our daily conduct glorifies God.
 

*** w11 4/15 p. 18 “The Fruitage of the Spirit” Glorifies God ***
The fruit Jesus mentioned includes both “the fruitage of the spirit” and “the fruit of lips” that Christians offer to God by means of the Kingdom-preaching work.—Heb. 13:15

So it is all really another confirmation of Jesus's words at Matt.13:52:

“That being the case, every public instructor who is taught about the Kingdom of the heavens is like a man, the master of the house, who brings out of his treasure store things both new and old.”

?
 

[wii.all.4.raro]

In 2008, we hosted the Pioneer School for that year. One of the talks discussed this question. what are the fruits? Each person gave a different answer. One said its the preaching. Another said it's the placements! Still another said it was the fruit of the spirit.

Jesus told the Pharisees, 'if you don't believe me, believe the works. In any case, wisdom is proved righteous by her children.'

In the gospels, the word works, and fruit are used in place of children. So which is it?  D?! All of the above?

[Queen Esther]

Thanks for your interesting comment,  dear  @wii.all.4.raro....  ?

Many greetings from my home country, North Germany ???

( just now a very rare, hot summer-time )

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

The article was OK ... until paragraphs 9 and 10, if memory serves .....

It was OK after that.

Paragraphs 9 and 10 were  the most convoluted mish-mash I ever read to try and Biblically justify .. WHICH IT DID NOT ... that the plain common sense observation that sometimes a Farmers' BEST efforts do not produce a crop ... as there may not be enough rain, or there is too much rain, or hailstones destroy the crop .... or insects eat the crop ... or perhaps rocky soil was all there was to plant on in the first place.

OK... I understand that ... "STUFF HAPPENS".  Everybody that knows about farming understands that.

It always has .... and always will.

... but to propose such convoluted and specious  reasoning to explain why globally there is a DECREASE in active Jehovahs' Witnesses by over 700,000 publishers last year, after spending about TWO BILLION hours "sewing seed", is solid evidence that they are MANIPULATING Scriptures to try and support the idea that there is a reasonable Biblical explanation of all of this going on.

It is plain common sense.

The "scriptural explanation" is pure garbage, and makes no sense at all.

If you twist ideas into pretzels with word gymnmastics in the World, it is called deception.

They have to have about 18 numbered paragraphs in every Watchtower to fill the pages of an article to meet the timing requirements of the Watchtower Study.

It is of no avail if you fill it in with paragraphs 9 and 10, which are garbage reasoning, and unadulterated lying.

It is such blatent and brazen cluelessness that I was able to write this entirely from memory.

...perhaps it was paragraphs 10 and 11 ... whichever has the least actual  "grain" of truth.

 

 

 

[Evacuated]

On 7/25/2018 at 8:38 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

a DECREASE in active Jehovahs' Witnesses by over 700,000 publishers last year,

You did say this in another post about the 700,000:

"So, have we actually had that much decrease, and does anybody have any "official" numbers to verify what I heard today from the platform?

Did you get that figure verified? 2016 peak plus 2017 baptised comes up about 168,000 short (not unusually) but this in an overestimate particularly when based on peak figures as some of last years will be included in the baptism figure. We don't have average pub. figures for 2017, (or I can't find them).

Anyway, it sounds a bit similar to that recent report on the forum of a brother announcing at the assembly that the GB think the preaching work has now been completed. I beleive he got "beamed up" somewhere after that!

Whilst acknowledging the obvious emotional content of your rant, I am still trying to understand your reason for it.

The idea that kingdom fruitage which ALL must produce relates to the actual word of the kingdom does not appear to be out of harmony with the illustration Jesus used? (Matt 13:19 etc). And to relate that fruitage to the effect of the kingdom message on an appreciative heart as being the point of the parable doesn't appear to be a cause for consternation. After all, Jesus himself said that speech would be a product of the heart's abundance didn't he? (comp.Matt.12:34).

Remembering that Jesus is actually the sower of the good news is important too, because his genuine followers, whilst not able to do all that he did, can do that which was his core activity (Luke 4:43). The requirement that all produce fruitage is significant, because not all individually make disciples, although all can have a collective share. So it seems entirely reasonable that the evidence of good soil is the production of more seed, the fruitage expected of one preached to is that...they preach (Rom.10:8-10).

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

3 hours ago, Gone Away said:

You did say this in another post about the 700,000:

"So, have we actually had that much decrease, and does anybody have any "official" numbers to verify what I heard today from the platform?

Did you get that figure verified? 2016 peak plus 2017 baptised comes up about 168,000 short (not unusually) but this in an overestimate particularly when based on peak figures as some of last years will be included in the baptism figure. We don't have average pub. figures for 2017, (or I can't find them).

Last Saturday I verified with the Elder from our Congregation that he heard TWICE from a speaker at the Assembly the "fact" that there were now 7,500,000 active Witnesses, and the previous number I was aware of was 8,200,000 .  He said he would call the Branch to triple check that number, but I have not gotten back with him to find out what he found out ... but the "published" number through official channels (the Assembly speaker) agrees with my gut feeling, information gleaned from all sources, and the fact that we are now making up excuses for why "that" happened, with the referenced Watchtower article that we studied.

It sounds very reasonable, agrees with my general knowledge and personal observations, and the Watchtower's reaction to "something" that would cause them to generate another "overlapping generations" type fantasy explanation, and attribute it to Biblical wisdom.

3 hours ago, Gone Away said:

Anyway, it sounds a bit similar to that recent report on the forum of a brother announcing at the assembly that the GB think the preaching work has now been completed. I believe he got "beamed up" somewhere after that!

There have been quite a few Brothers "disappearing mysteriously" in the past year, without any explanation.

Your observation "... a brother announcing at the assembly that the GB think the preaching work has now been completed", although officially specious shows others "higher up in the theocratic food chain" possibly have information or observations that leads them to conclusions considerably out of the "mainstream" dogma.

As always ... I could be completely wrong, but until I have better information, I have to "go with what I know" .... at any particular point in time.

With better information I can stop on a dime, and give you nine cents change.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

On 7/17/2018 at 8:59 PM, Queen Esther said:

and that the seed that we sow, does not produce fruits, but more seeds.

This statement is SF i think. 

The plant life cycle starts with a seed; every seed holds a miniature plant called the embryo. Some seeds are capable of growing even after many years if they are kept cool and dry. When a seed falls on the ground, it needs warmth and water in order to germinate; some seeds also need light. After being planted in the soil for a few days, the seed absorbs water and swells until the seed coat splits. The tiny root pushes down and grows, looking for water and nutrients.  It is important that the seed is planted in the right place at the right time in order for it to germinate. Germination is the process by which an organism grows.  Some plants flower within days while it takes others months or even years. 

Final product of seed is fruit. Fruit in final stage have new seed or seeds. An new seeds producing new fruits. Natural circle created by God. Without seed there is no fruit. Without fruit there is no new seed.

Bible is full of examples about natural agricultural life in Israel land, soil. Statement that you  or WT made above is more about artificial Monsanto production of food :))))  

On 7/17/2018 at 8:59 PM, Queen Esther said:

This understanding is more adjusted to Jehovah's way of thinking,

JHVH way of thinking ??? :)))))