Srecko Sostar

You are right on this and many more what today's Russell-ites, Rutherford-ites and GB-ites boys and girls doing.... if you are not member of same group and have own life outside of all this. Otherwise , listen more what @James Thomas Rook Jr. have to said about it :))

Main issue is about present time. I would like if you like to comment this moment first GB as representatives of 144000 are, in this moment, individuals who benefit in using material assets that is in possession of WT Society. Perhaps there is some other members of 144000 who serving in some Bethel facilities and are in position to use accomodation and some similar benefits of been in some particular service of that kind. Title looking for another perspective. Not about future, because in a future all of them (GB and rest of 144000) should be in Heaven. Of course, as i recall latest idea presented in publication, there is explanation how some or all of them, will survived Armageddon and stay flesh and blood to teach and guide rest of JW's. In that case your questions are important. But, i would like to hear your thoughts about present circumstances when GB declared how they had been appointed (in 1919) only for sharing food. Here is more details what include Jesus' "belongings on Earth". These “belongings” include the growing “great crowd” of “other sheep.” - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20090215/They-Keep-Following-the-Lamb/ In addition to providing nourishing spiritual food “at the proper time,” “the faithful steward” would be appointed over the entire body of Christ’s attendants and assigned to manage all of Christ’s interests on earth, “all his belongings.” What would this entail? 8, 9. What “belongings” is the slave appointed to manage? 8 The slave’s responsibilities include the supervision of the material facilities used by Christ’s followers to carry out their Christian activities, such as the world headquarters and branch offices of Jehovah’s Witnesses, as well as their places of worship—Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls—throughout the world. More important, the slave also oversees spiritually upbuilding programs of Bible study at weekly meetings and periodic assemblies and conventions. At these gatherings, information on the fulfillment of Bible prophecies is dispensed, and timely direction on how to apply Bible principles in daily life is given. 9 The steward’s responsibilities also include the supervision of the all-important work of preaching “this good news of the kingdom” and making “disciples of people of all the nations.” This involves teaching people to observe all the things that Christ, the Head of the congregation, commands to be done during this time of the end. (Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20; Revelation 12:17) The preaching and teaching work has produced “a great crowd” of loyal companions of the anointed remnant. These “desirable things of all the nations” are undoubtedly to be counted among the precious “belongings” of Christ administered by the faithful slave.—Revelation 7:9; Haggai 2:7. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20070401/Loyal-to-Christ-and-His-Faithful-Slave/ Because GB, after gave this "food in proper time" (is it proper time when they late cca 96 years?) aka information on the fulfillment of Bible prophecies is dispensed, and timely direction on how to apply Bible principles explained in 2015 WT study material, i would like to here what you think: 1) Did Jesus gave up of His authority and responsibility to take care about His belongings on Earth in 1919? 2) If Jesus had choose to take away this privilege of managing His possession by hands of GB in 2015, did he choose someone else on Earth to do this job, and do we know who? Why Jesus decide to do this.... in fact is this His decision or decision made by GB? Is this sort of degradation on behalf of GB? Did Jesus found GB to be negligent in manage? 3) When Jesus was on Earth he had nothing against Juda to take care about material things aka money. He allowed him to take care. Why GB think this Bible verses to be prophetic and to apply on them, and later changed interpretation of particular verses? 4) Does Jesus managing his Earthly possession by own hands now? How we can "prove" answer? ....add your question :))

...my failure, because of own feeling that people should be first, above

Don't worry about that. As they moved "appointment over all belongings" to the future, they can make same with "appointment for sharing spiritual food" in the future too. It would need some deep thinking how to manage this issue, but "believe me", it is possible. :)) And JW's will not feel the change. JW's not feels any change about "all belongings". The same Society still have all influence over "belongings". And we know what "belongings" includes. JW's aspect still stay the same. Only many of members now have to go to some other congregational meetings because of "merging". Are "mergings" product of new doctrine? Did GB give info on: Who are now in charge "over all belongings"? (good idea for new topic, it is made now) I think that was not explained in WT study articles, not even in a simple edition :))

In view of the foregoing, what can we conclude? When Jesus comes for judgment during the great tribulation, he will find that the faithful slave has been loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics. Jesus will then delight in making the second appointment—over all his belongings. Those who make up the faithful slave will get this appointment when they receive their heavenly reward, becoming corulers with Christ. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20130715/who-is-faithful-discreet-slave/ “All his belongings” over which the “faithful and discreet slave” class is appointed must refer to all the spiritual things that belong to him on earth in connection with his established heavenly kingdom - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101973027 1) members ?? 2) real estate and money ??

Do you mean this? "Special knowledge", in sense it was different than that of main Christendom (Catholic church) but also similar or sourced in other smaller religious groups. And "special faith", in sense he want to believe he found "new and better" or even as he had been chosen for "mission". I wasn't studied about this things as i should. @JW Insider handled with more materials (and have better memory than me :))) to bring out so much or enough quotes (WT publications) to support discussion, to give corrective perception on issues like this, and to introduce reader into unknown possibility, reality. WT Society and today successors of religious inheritance (all doctrines and methodologies used to find "the truth") aka GB carry a sort of "burden" of that past. Perhaps they are somehow "forced" to stay on such track, path of the past, don' know. If they are aware of fact how past doctrines are not bringing to the future but contrary, holds them in ambys of past spiritual wrongs, because they are afraid of making clear and painful cuts, it is understandable, but also makes whole situation hopeless. It can be, based on experience we see till today, how easiest way to escape from spiritual "errors" they found in idea of "progressive understanding". According to this, Bible Truth never changed, but human (GB) understanding does. To this idea one thing also remain not understandable: what is Bible truth? Because no one is able to say - where we are now standing, on what point in this progress?! How much steps exists from point A to B in this progressive understanding? Because they made a claims how human living at close end of this system they assured themselves, as many time before, how this "present truth" must be good enough and supported by God. With this attitude you are on a good way to be deceived and self deceived.

We raised issue on some other level. They witnessed to their faith and hope, and to some literal manifestations. But precisely said, they not witnessed in a way that we consider as word "witness" primatly means. It would be as someone today gave testimony as witness on Court about something, and he say to Judge: "I didn't saw what happened but I believe i know what happened because this was promised to me that will happen. And things that i saw are exactly that." Religious people today depending on testimonies made by people in the past who not witnessed to some events, to some they did. Also, people today put trust on people who wrote about this things and also to translators. And finally, people put their trust on spiritual mediators aka church leaders, who are strong force that drive faith and hope of people in particular direction. People in Jesus' days was under promise and expectations that day will SEE supernatural events as Proof how individual who doing this is Send By God. I think how WT Society take this position in their explanations. So, miracles are of important things that surrounding life and faith of people in Israel from the very beginning. Without miracles, many of events described in Bible, would never happened and history will be different and present will be different. No matter did such miracles really happened or not. Christian faith, before and today, would be in some other format without miracles. Christians in 1 century was totally in miracles of all kind. Today, things are different. faith gave a person insight to understand the end of the gentile times in 1914 way before the event of WW1 happened. If i understand what i read before about this correctly, faith he had (Russell) gave him wrong insight and understanding. Other people' faiths, around Russell, also accepted same things that made them to be in wrong expectations too. It seems how "faith" (own or other' people) is not trustful. It is not what makes things come true. Faith of man, who is blind, who believe he will see, not makes him cured of blindness because of mere faith. Someone who has power to do miracle, have to cure him from blindness. Than, this man' faith have value and justification. Otherwise is superstition, empty hope. Faith (to believe something) not need knowledge. Because knowledge would say, miracles are not possible. Do we have some "special" knowledge? WT Society teaches how 1 century miracles are not possible today. Russell had some "special" knowledge and some "special "faith". And that ended in past. His legal heirs wants to make all that as progress on a way to "ultimate knowledge and faith".

In Act 5 we see how apostles were busy with Jesus' teaching and because of that they fall under persecution. As a tool for defending themselves they said: 29 Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings! 30 The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross. 31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins. 32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.” They claim how they witnessed of these two things: 1) Jesus raised from dead 2) Jesus was exalted to God' own right hand Peter and apostles claimed how they are witnesses of this two things. No one of them saw by own eyes Jesus' resurrection. And two of apostles didn't recognize resurrected Jesus when he appeared to them ("they were kept from recognizing him" - verse said, Luke 24)..... When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God - Mark 16 He began to be parted from them, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.” - Act 1:9 As we see from this Bible verse, cloud made impossible for apostles to see how he sat down. Important questions are: What sort of witnesses were apostles? To what events they witnessed? They saw resurrected Jesus but not recognized him and they didn't saw nothing what was happened in the Heaven about his sitting down. Now, we have their claim how holy spirit is also witness to this two events. And they call for HS, in front their persecutors, as some sort of undeniable proof to their claims. Perhaps they expected how persecutors will be afraid to go against HS and stop to persecuted them. But that didn't happened. I see here these subject: Apostles calling for HS because they personally didn't saw nothing of spoken claims. But it seems how they want to tell us, how individuals who received (will receive in a close of far future) HS will be in position to see invisible things. But to receive HS you have to Obey. Apostles send message to persecutors how then are not Obeying HS and as result they can't receive HS and as next result they can't see or to be witnesses of this two events. Did apostles received HS to see invisible things? How it came about that HS didn't open their eyes to recognize Jesus at first sight? They didn't been inspired at that moment? But after they were? It seems how these Bible verses talking about importance to be under influence of HS, or to be inspired, as precondition to be able to see, and understand, what is going on. Now we came again to one of crucial questions. Is it possible to be inspired by HS and as such, in that condition of mind, hearth, spirituality, to be Witness for things not heard and not seen in literal sense? Because only if we are inspired we See things, invisible. Not only invisible because they are in some other place and time in Universum. But also to see invisible things here on Earth, in the Bible, in WT Society, JW congregation and in society as whole? To what things JW's witnessing today? And what sort of witnesses they are? Are they merely witnesses of their own faith, beliefs? Are they witnesses to "signs"? But as was already said and as it is written in the Bible looking or searching for "signs" are not what Jesus recommended. Of what importance then is, to be witness of 1914 events? or other events in WT history and her life as Mother Organization?

Perhaps GB act is in a manner as playing roulette. Each time they are sure how this time they will win. With other people's money. With other people's faith and hope.

I believe how some sort of quotas and normative about hours still exists. Average system. 15 minutes of preaching for old people, active, inactive, (3 or) 6 month periods ...etc. GB and Helpers speaking about "theocratic carrier" as opposite to "university education" that only worth for "worldly carrier" and "own pleasures" and " self-fulfillment that not helps other people" - and that is very, very wrong as they explained. Because after Armageddon, we will not need doctors and lawyers. Now, this moment, as Morris III says, we need many skillful workers, plumbers, bricklayers, carpenters .... This means, tomorrow (and partially they are today) all this hand skills will be over brain skills, because building program will be of main concern after Armageddon. Perhaps, @Anna , teachings and instructions, as mentioned above, are "fraudulent". Does this makes Organization or some people in it "fraudulent" is on observer to say. With this in mind we can also comment 1914 and all knowledge, teachings, instructions, beliefs and hopes around that period of time.

Is it possible to assume how life span from Adam to nowadays are not falling in some mathematical order or in order to be shut down in full at some moment .... like Tom's fan ? What this huge difference in years of life span in various time periods says, explains? We would expect how life span, now (because of global end aka Armageddon), would be miserably law, to the point that babies dies at birth. But that not happens. Obviously, something else we need, and not fan, as more understandable explanation why psalmist speaking about 70-80 years as sort of proper normative for measuring that amount of years in human life as some normal length. Would be any difference if life span is 455 years and then go to dust?

I would suggest ...... first to strip down and then take a shower :))

You helped me a lot to understand. Thanks :))) ... how many days or years dead fan spins, in your example?

I forget. Apologize. Old Testament is just shadow of new things that will come and replace Old Law :)) Old Testament : Don't count! New Testament: Count!

One ordinary day in a Paradise. Eve said: "Adam, what shall we do today? If you have plan go fishing, don't stay whole day by the river". I have new recipe, and will prepare fine supper, but you have to come before day ends. Just watch at the sun and when sun come two ell measure above the top of the red tree, that is moment when you have quickly walk back for meal.

Death was punishment for Adam sin. I don't recall what verse said Adam and Eve will live this or that number of years before they die. Verse that say: “in the day that you eat from it you shall surely die" not giving specific number of how long human will live. "Day". This is something that is under interpretations. No one know for sure of what day JHVH thought about. And what Moses thought when wrote word "day" or whatever that word had been. And what did translators understand later, word "day" is. WT Society interpreting day as 1000 years. But that is not only calculation that word "day" have. Genesis context also speaking about "day", seven of them. And no one of bible scholars today in WT Society don't say how such day is 1000 years long. Adam lived in Genesis context, not in some other Bible book context when one day is one year or other similar and not similar parable, prophetic day - year etc.

purpose is: pay money and you will be spared purpose is: to serve in the army purpose is: to serve in the army purpose is: the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and it incited David against them to say, “Go, number Israel and Judah." What is context, why WT Society count members? Does secular authority need such informations? Does WT Society preparing for war? Does WT Society calculates how much money can each member bring into organization? Or how much calendars have to print? Or how much money they will send as a gift to each member?

Who can tell it is wrong or right context ?

I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. - John 10 Yes, here exist a risk how sheep imagine how he/she is a Jesus' sheep, but in fact belongs to some other flock. Perhaps "to gather" in spiritual context? Not necessary to be counted, numbered while be on meeting or convention. You already know how God hate that "his people" to be counted. We have Bible precedents on that. Perhaps WT Society should to stop count how many JW's are worldwide. :)) While doing that WT leaders shows attitude how They Know who belong to Jesus' flock. Do they know? Do you know? ......with all due respect, i really don't know what are you talking about :))

Sorry, your illustration with car driving is funny. Go, please, on YT and you will learn a lot how not to drive. Auto-school is place for first lessons. .....if you didn't know before :)) I suppose how his flock is made of people who put faith in him and listen to his voice and how he directs them by his spirit (for example, when two or three gathered in my name i am with them). We don't need to turn around nothing. Few words is enough, don't you agree?

1) The stars are under Jesus' full control, power and direction. 2) If someone on a body of elders needs correction, Jesus will see to it that this is done in his own time and way." Deceiving and in manipulate form. In first sentence writer showing idea how Jesus will fix all things and give justice and proper help to people who are hurt by elders. In second sentence comes new message: Do not have hope how Jesus will do it because of you (or in your lifetime). You are not of His primary interest, you are just sheep. Bigger picture is more important than you as individuum. The idea of "spirit guided organization" is also a trick?? We don't have any clear Bible example from 1 century or earlier how elders today should or need to handle CSA. Perhaps we can find some other modern problem too,that is not pictured in Bible. In spirit of this words i would give serious question about JW doctrine how elders are appointed by holy spirit. Here you said how elders are people who need to be in spirit and recommendations and guidelines of laws, principles and boundaries. Again, very stretchy and with strong human influence on things. It seems to me, how JW members have to decide in own mind, do they want to continue with idea of God's appointments or human appointments of church servants. We misunderstand each other. I gave point on subject; Do Jesus have interest to be First and Last in decisions that are about His Flock and Congregation, or He leave that to elders. In fact i ask, WHO RUN church? Jesus or WT Society with elders? You gave answer down: "snow globe" in general beliefs of JW's

excellent movie

I am not talking about "dodos" ... and you know that very well. :))) You showed little attempt to redirect my words. This is something what i wouldn't expect from you :)) The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit. Hmmm, i would understand how person who are born of Spirit KNOW exactly who he/she is and where he/she is going. If so, then WT multiplication of all sort of knowledge is so "dodo". :))