Srecko Sostar

Be murdered or be killed ... for victim is the same end.

I agree, again. But why would words that carry Moral and Ethical obligation for all (elders and rank and file members), ... why there is a need for such selection about "spiritual food" for elders that is not allowed to be read by all other members ("Shepherd book" is what i have in mind at moment)?

In Croatian we don't have two sort of words as in English (murder vs kill) so i had to help myself a little with few google searching. murder noun - the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. kill verb - to cause someone or something to die Question One from my 5-year-old girl after hearing about Bin Laden: What’s the difference between being murdered and being killed? Maxine, Kew Answer ** Definitive ** Name: Laurence, Chiswick Qualification: Criminal barrister Answer: If whoever shot and killed him believed they were working in self-defense, then it would be a killing and not murder – and self-defence can be a pre-emptive strike. We’ll obviously never know what his motives were. Name: Joe, Battersea Qualification: Not enough Answer: If you murder somebody, your intention would be solely to kill them. If your intent wasn’t to kill them but you do, then it is not considered murder. Murder is a killing where the intent is proved. (James O’Brien: You’re right. But this doesn’t answer how the killing of Bin Laden wasn’t murder.) Name: Michael, Grayshott Qualification: Answer: I think it’s a killing We are in a de facto state of war with Al Qaeda. The action in Afghanistan is sanctioned by the UN. The mission would have been to capture or kill Bin Laden. (James O’Brien: But under the Geneva Convention, you’re not allowed to shoot an unarmed man, are you?) WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder? In case of Israel Nation perhaps because of this: Rules for War 20 “When you go out to battle against your enemies, and you see horses, chariots, and many more people than you have, you must not be afraid of them. The Lord your God is with you—and he brought you out of Egypt. 2 “When you go to the battle, the priest must go to the soldiers and speak to them. The priest will say, ‘Men of Israel, listen to me! Today you are going against your enemies in battle. Don’t lose your courage. Don’t be troubled or upset. Don’t be afraid of the enemy. The Lord your God is going with you to help you fight against your enemies. He will help you win!’............... 0 “When you go to attack a city, you must first offer peace to the people there. If they accept your offer and open their gates, all the people in that city will become your slaves and be forced to work for you. But if the city refuses to make peace with you and fights against you, you should surround the city. And when the Lord your God lets you take the city, you must kill all the men in it. But you may take for yourselves the women, the children, the cattle, and everything else in the city. You may use all these things. The Lord your God has given these things to you. That is what you must do to all the cities that are very far from you—the cities that are not in the land where you will live. 16 “But when you take cities in the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you must kill everyone. You must completely destroy all the people—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. The Lord your God has commanded you to do this. It can be said how to murder "enemies" who don't want to be your slaves was justified and legalized under Israel Legislative. Israel had Civil Government, and Enemies also had Civil Government. It seems how Israel Government has expanded the term "wrongdoer" not only for own people, but wanted to become Policeman for surrounding nations too .... and to colonized them. "To Murder enemies" is concept that existing in mind of God. Prophesied "enmity" in Genesis book must have only one solution: Us or Them. Murder is only option. Winner will interpret this act as "legal". Coexistence is not possible. In Bible terminology, God created Sovereign Government. But in the same time devil done the same, and God never (in Bible text) negate fact and reality how he also constitute Sovereign Government. If God allowed him to even start something as Rebellion Movement it is interesting how God also allowed him to Legalized that same Rebellion. Devil has Territory, has Subjects, has Law - and that for sure is fundamental precondition to form Sovereign Government. If Final Solution will come someday in the future, perhaps that will be fight between this two Legal and Sovereign Entities. Warriors (on one or both side) who will die in the battle will die with pride for king and homeland :))) This is just one aspect that first came to my mind after reading Your topic :))

"...it would not be unchristian to report the matter to the authorities.." All people sometimes need advice, support, opinions on some of the things they are facing. It is evident from this segment that the WT Organization has raised generations of members who seeking permission for some activity in their own lives because they do not dare to make decisions on their own, without organization, which perhaps may "embarrass God and his visible organization." Would it be interesting to find out how that came about? Why can't members exist without their leaders and their instructions, and why can't leaders stop deciding for their members? :))) general distribution

I am fully agree how only this 7 emoji can't present our reactions on something :))

Human life is made of, at least, two aspects (this is limited view, of course): What we want to do and what we doing. About producing: spiritual food (fruit). If Jesus is Source of truthful spiritual food that is made, presented and spread TODAY through humans as tools, as agents, as means of transmission, then it would be normal to believe how such "fruit" is (have to be) without blame. About producing: physical and verbal deeds (fruit). If People are imperfect free will individuals who can't do nothing without errors, than we need to give and ask for forgiveness. But because nothing is Black and White and nothing about Organized Religion is clear, we shall never have (i am sort of pesimist) nothing that is flawless.

I don't know, of course, what sort of feeling and in what degree, level, is in soul of JW members while obeys commands about not speaking, greeting with ex-JW. Is that hate, animosity, anger, pride ...? But, it is condition, human relation that need to be book written about it. :))

Because of possibility (proved until now) how some dishes are indeed poisoned on the table with other food, what will be advice, how to give warning to people around the table to not eat specific food?

As it is well known, JW's have to follow two sorts of laws. One is Law expressed in Jesus teachings and commands .... and simultaneously , next is Secular law (under "satan" influence, as it is explained and understand by bible scholars). Obviously, every law have some moments when paragraphs don't give explanation and guidance how to resolve something. For example, blood ban in Bible talking how eating blood is forbidden, but this law have nothing to say about transfusion and saving life. So, people who want to pleased god, making deep thinking and bring human commands about bible's law. Secular law also have same problematic. Life making new challenges and need for new details in law making production of various paragraphs. JW's are blessed in all this confusion. When one law don't have clear guideline about something, perhaps another one has ..... and vice versa. In other words, JW people have no excuse about, because of any sort of shortage in this two kind of Laws, what and how to act in difficult situation. :))

Perhaps WT lawyers should go against secular legal laws and system in this issue about terminology and fight for same "privileges" as Christendom Priests, but not to be named as "clergy". And with such act put existing religious hypocrisy on Next Level. :))

Yes, and this bring more confusion. JWorg don't have clergy-laity distinction, but have heavenly and earthly class, also have priesthood and not priesthood class, anointed and not anointed class, males as Heads and females as not Heads - BUT all are (male and female) ordained ministers. :))

You noticed this very well. Thanks ! How we would know it is about Catholic priests if news reporters didn't mentioned their religious affiliation? :)) Perhaps Tom thinking about rank and file Catholic members ? But rank and file Catholic are mere "laity". Inside JWorg rank and file members are not "laity" :)))

You are right in conclusion how "involved parties" are those who may decide. WT elders, when came to position to hear about something comes to be also "involved parties" because they have information. Even more, they alone examining such information and classified them into "truth" or "lies". Well, if this serious men, elders, have such crucial knowledge about crime act, what making them to be without responsibility toward - truth, justice, involved parties and victim first? Do we have to mention advice's made by many of this same elders, not to go to "worldly courts" because of god's name and organization honor? Perhaps "public" is all those people who don't know nothing or not know enough about CSA and Court cases in JWorg? Then will have at least two class: 1) JW people Public and 2) Worldly people Public. Which of this two groups will be more devastated after WT "kickback"? Or will these WT kickback be presented in two envelops, one for worldly public and one for JW public?

Geoffrey Jackson in his talk comparing GB with "watch dog who barking for no reason in a middle of the night" in 3:04 of this video. He send message how watch dog and FDS have similar "enthusiasm". :)) It is funny, but also very concerning if you are member of organization under such religious Leaders.

Yes, this verses are somehow in opposition to Peter's words about, obey god more than men. But you made good choose to show César Chávez how GB brake this Jesus' commands. Giving information to secular authorities they ask for, about CSA inside JWorg is not something that would make god to look bad or dishonor His Name, but and only make WT Society, JWorg and GB leaders to look as any other human organization. That is something what make them scary. Because it would bring shame to Them not to Him !! I guess how God can handle The Truth, all sort of Truths. But human can't !! The Truth, in cases like this when it have role of revealing bad things, has only one outcome - to destroy self made image. Until you don't get to that point, people will continue with same manner (bad manner) of behavior. Well, Revealing The Truth is braking point, to take the blame and make change for better .....or to stay living in denying mode (fantasy world) continue with cognitive dissonance and choose "explanations" that will support The Lie.

:)) I am not the only one :)) JW members live in own sort of fantasy too.

Secular government is in position to give report to their citizens, about what they doing, who voted for this or that government. If people are not satisfied after get to know what politicians/leaders doing, many governments will be replaced with new "governing body", by voters. WT Society Leaders are not placed in their position by members, and members can't change policy and direction of Corporation. But even ordinary members today can be in position to collect information about organization he/she belong to. And because members can't change "governing body" rulers, by voting, he/she can vote for him/her self and leave organization because of many sorts of corruption inside WT Society.

In cases when CSA is in question, and we are here under this topic, clear mind and responsible people will cooperate with secular authorities in contributing to prevent, to stop or to punish this sort of crime. We are not speaking about normal "daily paper trail". It is about crime trail !! Who is that "anyone"? Members are that "no one (nobody)". Their status not giving them any chance to see "daily paper trails" of WT. And in general JW people are not interested for that. Also, "normal daily business" is not something that people in general have to know about. They (members) are allowed to give (donate) money but are not entitled to know when and why and how much money is used to pay when WT lawyers fight against CSA victims ??!! Public interest for JW members would be to know this sort of "daily paper trails" about how WT operate in this issues. In this WT failed and they are hiding this as many other does.

WT Society is a PRIVATE Corporation. The business of this company produces documentation of various content. They are about finances, investments, business cooperation and correspondence inside and outside the company, human resources, employee dispute resolution documents, information on the number and status of members .... and many more. Each state has legal provisions on how much and what kind of documents an institution should keep and how long it must be kept. It is quite certain that the WT Society owns and collects many other documents too, based on its choice and need. The governing structures of the company decide which documents and what information to make public. We have to expect how many things will stay "hidden" from members eyes or secular people sight, even from secular authorities insight in Court cases. WT Society has NO INTEREST to inform own members about Court cases involving CSA and similar. They have NO INTEREST to display PDF or other format of Court documents for OPENLY reading inside JWorg and congregations. They have NO OBLIGATION (EXCEPT MORAL AND ETHICAL OBLIGATION) to give members full information what is going on about some issue. For example, issue of: "blue envelops" or "special blue envelops", "confidential file","sealed confidential envelopes", "Do Not Destroy", "notes in secure place", Confidential Records (sealed envelopes) .... 20. If the authorities request confidential congregation records or ask that elders give testimony regarding confidential congregation matters, the elders should promptly telephone the Legal Department - page 128 1. It is recommended that elders check their jw.org e-mail inbox at least once each week. Confidential information should not be sent using outside e-mail providers. Use of jw.org e-mail is governed by the "Terms of Use" policy available on jw.org. - page 193 21. Judicial Files and Other Confidential Reports: After a judicial committee, an appeal committee, a committee handling a request for disassociation, a reinstatement committee, or one or two elders handling a matter of wrongdoing have met with an individual, a brief summary of the proceedings is prepared and signed by the elders involved. The summary should be prepared regardless of the outcome of the meeting, for example, if the case was dismissed because of lack of evidence. (See 12:41-42.) The summary should include only pertinent facts and the final determination of the person's standing in the congregation; it should not contain personal opinions. Any personal notes should be destroyed. No judicial information should be posted on Congregation's Publisher Records (S-21). 22. If the matter involves a disfellowshipping, disassociation, or reinstatement, the elders handling the case should ensure that only the following documents are placed in a sealed envelope: (1) Brief summary of the proceedings. (2) Notification of Disfellowshipping or Disassociation (S-77) form. (3) Congregation's Publisher Records if not reinstated. (4) Any correspondence to or from the branch office regarding the wrongdoer. (5) Any letters requesting reinstatement. (6) Any letter of disassociation. 23. If the matter involves judicial reproof or another matter involving wrongdoing handled by one or two elders, the elders involved should ensure that the sealed envelope contains only the brief CHAPTER 22 "SHEPHERD THE FLOCK OF GOD" CORRESPONDENCE AND RECORDS summary and any correspondence to or from the branch office regarding the wrongdoer. 24. The following information should be written on the front of the sealed envelope: (1) Name of the individual. (2) Action taken by the congregation, if any, and the date of such. (3) Any judicial restrictions imposed and the date the restrictions are removed. (4) Names of the elders who handled the matter. (5) The words "Do Not Destroy" for matters involving accusations of child sexual abuse (established or not). 25. The sealed envelope should be placed in the congregation file by the secretary. If there is a need to open these files in the future, such as in connection with a plea for reinstatement, this should be done only by the elders who are assigned by the body to handle the matter. 26. The sealed envelopes containing records on individuals who have not been reinstated should be kept indefinitely. If the person has been reinstated a full five years or has died, usually the file should be destroyed unless the case involved an accusation of child sexual abuse or an adulterous marriage or the committee believes there is some other reason to retain it. The same retention policy applies to records involving judicial reproof and wrongdoing handled by one or two elders. If it is determined that a sealed envelope should be retained after an individual has died, the date of death should be written on the outside of the envelope. If one or more of the elders who handled a specific case are no longer available, the Congregation Service Committee will assign other elders to determine if the file should be retained. "SHEPHERD THE FLOCK OF GOD" CHAPTER 22 CORRESPONDENCE AND RECORDS 27. If a person entered into an adulterous marriage, the file should be kept for five years after the judicial action and thereafter as long as the innocent former mate is alive, unmarried, and has not been guilty of sexual immorality (por-ne-ia).-See 12:10-12 - pages 200-202

My heart is dying for her For a long time, there is nothing left on this path And it's time that I wake up from sleep Although I know that I will love for all times Forgotten touch of her lips She pulls my threads and it has to be like that She is the most beautiful of all I know She pulls my threads and it has to be like that I know that I'll stay alone forever Because I repeat her name as a prayer even in dream And everything still smells of home And when I don't talk about that, my heart is dying for her My heart is dying for her Do I give up everything?, dear, forever Like a dream she remains even when she leaves The only one who knows my secret Now without her all steps lead me to the empty And the heart is just a sound in the chest She pulls my threads and it has to be like that She is the most beautiful of all I know She pulls my threads and it has to be like that I know that I'll stay alone forever Because I repeat her name as a prayer even in dream And everything still smells of home And when I don't talk about that, my heart is dying for her My heart is dying for her Do I give up everything?, dear, forever Copyright © Maryanchy This translation is protected by copyright law. Copying and publishing on other websites or in other media is not allowed without a written permission of the author. All rights reserved. / Sva prava pridržana. https://lyricstranslate.com

🥰 Perhaps i am pessimist, but this two not working together (many, often times) in same direction. For example, understanding other people emotions, words and deeds and circumstances need to be understood through our mind or understanding, emotions .... and our experience. Complete lack or insufficiency of some level in needed measure of some or of all of this segments (and many more) will not bring to "enough" love and/or understanding for people in closer or distant places.

1 - manipulate 1: to treat or operate with or as if with the hands or by mechanical means especially in a skillful manner manipulate a pencil manipulate a machine 2a: to manage or utilize skillfully quantify our data and manipulate it statistically— S. L. Payne b: to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage being used and manipulated by the knowing men around him— New Republic 3: to change by artful or unfair means so as to serve one's purpose : DOCTOR suspected that the police reports were manipulated— Evelyn G. Cruickshanks 2 - manipulation the action of influencing or controlling someone or something to your advantage, often without anyone knowing it: Maybe this is more appropriate to call it as - "blackmail" or "carrot". And than, this "tool" is sort of manipulation :)) ....for good or for bad. Future will bring answer.

Watch from minute 53.00 - 56.00 - "...so we will never change our Scriptural position on that subject....." His lips said that :)))) https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/StudioMonthlyPrograms/pub-jwb_201711_1_VIDEO JW Broadcasting—November 2017

@AuthenticJWinsider Please, i am curios to know What makes you to be authentic? ... in comparison with @JW Insider ... or something else?

What benefit WTJWorg try to accomplish with giving criticism on one political system especially in moment when WT Corporation is under ban? Did JWorg not understand consequences and seriousness of this words, and how such statement will sound, when one US Corporation going to compare two political systems that was part of one Nation in USSR and Russia history? Are WTJWorg representative who gave this statement is a historian who giving picture of position of religion in USSR communist state and Russia now, on some Convention of historians? Do WTJWorg try to say how history of political system in North America is better than this in Asia? How such standpoint can be in harmony with JW preaching how all and every political system is under devil control and it is not good? WTJWorg working under US State political system and Laws. Do WT have aspiration or wish and hope that this political system and laws to be implemented in Russia too? What is a purpose when one of elders in JW congregation going outside of his primarily responsibility: to be shepherd of Jesus' flock, and not from a flock of Russian president ?