Srecko Sostar

I have nothing against advices or instructions that can be helpful. You speaking about preparations, experience that GB collected from past till now. You mentioned central monitoring location. What is Warwick, sort of Pentagon? Drones, satelites, spies, central intelligence "guided by spirit"? How can human experience, GB experience be helpful for Armageddon? For some local wars, disasters and similar turbulence they can have some experience and good preparation. But JW people expecting Armageddon, and all WT efforts are to prepare JW people for Armageddon. Kingdom will destroy all that opposes God. This is message in publication? Or not any more?

Some religious people love their clergy. Some not so much. Some non-religious people have same feelings. JW people not loving any clergy but only own clergy. Problem will be solved if WT publication start to teaching own members about "connotations".... wrong one and positive one. :)))

Huh Tom! Wife went to evening cong. meeting now. How about to asking her about this what all JW's know when she comes back? :))) Oh ,no i can't expect she would tell me anything, because she are not allowed to talk with me about congregational, spiritual things. Ohh, what a pity!!

I can agree. But GB wouldn't. :)) They wrote in WT study edition how JW members need to be ready to listen/obey any instructions from GB to elders channels, because that will save their lives. Elders who are reading this article can draw some useful conclusions from the account we have just considered: (1) The most practical step that we can take to prepare for the coming attack of “the Assyrian” is that of strengthening our faith in God and helping our brothers to do the same. (2) When “the Assyrian” attacks, the elders must be absolutely convinced that Jehovah will deliver us. (3) At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. (4) Now is the time for any who may be putting their trust in secular education, material things, or human institutions to adjust their thinking. The elders must stand ready to help any who may now be wavering in their faith. -https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pl/r1/lp-e?q=w13 11%2F15 20

Thanks for respond. What you described is concised also in wording you offer: "is the same as most businesses on Earth". Some examples from Bible give us another way how some individuals going to gain responsible positions. Young David was walking with sheeps and other domestic animals. Living simple life with no preparation for ruling over nation Israel as a King. But his youth had some need to prove himself and to his brothers and father, as mature and strong and brave. In one moment Samuel anointed David to be KIng. Just in a second. Nothing about going from bottom and then work his way up. :))))) Saul of Tarsus have some period about learning, but he didn't learned how to be apostle and member of Jerusalem GB. If GB in Jerusalem existed at all??!! He was chosen by Jesus as 11 before him. :))) Please, who had chosen GB in 1971? God? Jesus? Someone? Dear Anna. Majority of JW members don't know nothing about such "designation" for their congregational elders. In fact i believe how such knowledge will stumble many of your people. Few of you who participate here and read Court documents knowing these things. Your bro/sis living in blessed ignorance about this. It would be proper to say how few of you, few JW people here, "accepting" such terminology, but only for pro et contra conversations we making here. :)) Yours inner feelings for justice and ethic and truth NOT want, NOT wish, CAN'T accept this mixing of "holy things" and "secular (false religion) things" about leveling/equalization JW elders with Catholic clergy. But you are forced to do this because of loyalty to WTJWorg and "argumentation".

Out of topic, but just for fun. Revelation is very symbolic book. 1000 years can be also 24 human hours and can be millions of human years too. This two quote contradict itself. Question is: Why WT Lawyers not waiting for God's Justice ... in the future? From the Christian congregation's point of view, the worldly definition of clergy does apply to the elders. This is what @Anna said, not me. :))

No problem, don't worry, I understand you. We just comment Montana situation :))

From a worldly point of view the elders are clergy. From the Christian congregation's point of view, the worldly definition of clergy does apply to the elders. Than, result is the same: JW elders are clergy, priesthood. However, outside of a worldly situation (meaning a worldly situation like a court setting) a member of the Christian congregation will not view the elders as clergy, because they are not applying the worldly point of view. Is it doing bad to children (or CSA)?: -worldly situation or -situation inside JW congregation or -worldly situation inside JW situation who operate inside worldly system situation? Where, to Whom Courts belong? To worldly situation only? To satan, because he is god of this World? Courts belongs in Bible situation. They are God's Servants, and not devil's Servants (your Bible said so, your interpretation of Romans said so too). Bible situation says how all people (Christian congregants too) belong to Secular Authorities who making decisions who is who. In Montana situation JW elders prayed, asked Court to give them distinctive title - clergy, priesthood. Obviously they asked Court to give them something that God "failed" to give it to them. :)))

Me too doing this. For example, puting new colors on old walls. Driving 20 years old car, but not thinking twice when car mechanic man say, this or that must be changed, replaced. IT's called updating ! :))) And no one blame me (except myself) for not having more brain on question: how to build new passive house with green roof and how to buy electric car, even second hand ?! How about some investments? :))) through Henrietta Riley Trust?

How came to that, that they just found themselves to be in this opportunity? This formulation say how they had no "qualifications", but JUST had been GIVING opportunity to direct. Who gave them (GB) this opportunity from 1971 on ? WT Society Administration? Or God? Or mutual effort of human and spirit (similar to what was described in Acts, ..."we and holy spirit decided to ....") ?

Very good response from long term JW member. And very dissonante response!! From now on, because JW members obey secular laws (and because of agreements that WT Society and Courts made) in everything that not oppose to God's law, have to consider how to accept new terminology and to explain in publications and in field service when people ask about hierarchy inside Organization. It will be very interesting to see what would be reaction of new interested persons when congregants tell them, how JW Church elders are clergy only in Court cases against them, but in everyday life all are brothers. :)) WT Society giving few claims, few interpretations about one standard: God is above all 1) obey God's commandments 2) obey secular law 3) obey God's commandments above secular law 4) obey secular law in everything that not contradict and opposing to God's commandments 5) obey Secular authority and God's authority when they work together and making compromise I am very interested to see how and when this "new clarification" (in your's or some other formulation) will see daylight in WT publications and on JW meetings. :))

Supreme Court of Montana - Reversal, January 8 2020 I chose few paragraphs, and some accentuation. The parties agree that elders are “clergy” under Montana law. Relevant here, § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA, provides: “A member of the clergy or a priest is not required to make a report under this section if the communication is required to be confidential by canon law, church doctrine, or established church practice.” ¶12 Jehovah’s Witnesses contend they are excepted from the general mandatory reporting statute pursuant to § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA. ¶30 Jehovah’s Witnesses point out that imposing a narrow definition of confidentiality impermissibly could discriminate between different religious beliefs and practices, protecting confidentiality of reports made in a confession from a parishioner to priest, like the traditional Catholic practice, while offering no protection to a congregant’s disclosures to a committee of elders using a process like that followed by the Jehovah’s Witnesses. “It is the duty of courts, if possible, to construe statutes in a manner that avoids unconstitutional interpretation.” State v. Mathis, 2003 MT 112, ¶ 8, 315 Mont. 378, 68 P.3d 756 (citation omitted) ¶33 We hold accordingly that the undisputed material facts in the summary judgment record demonstrate as a matter of law that Jehovah’s Witnesses were not mandatory reporters under § 41-3-201, MCA, in this case because their church doctrine, canon, or practice required that clergy keep reports of child abuse confidential, thus entitling the Defendants to the exception of § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA We can reverse now something else: Did WT Society and all included in spreading "spiritual truths and doctrines" lied to general public and JW members by claiming how JW congregations have not clergy, priesthood class and how elders in congregations are not clergy, priesthood?

I believe how money can't REPAIR the Trauma. Money can do other things, other sorts of help for victim.

I am glad that someone helping people in need. But, because of your unappropriate way of how involving our names here, i will give you back (you ask for this) in this way: That doesn’t surprise us, for even Satan transforms himself to appear as an angel of light! - 2.Cor.11

Jesus: "The kingdom of heaven ...." ??!!

.... to protect financial assets, if i may say. Because there is no more need to protect Organization in sense of dignity and "to not drag God's name through the mud". CSA problem is strong in so many Institutions, religious and non-religious. In that, from secular point of view, JW organization is like every other organization. And they (world) have no need to pay more attention to WTJWorg than to every other religion or institution of any sort. What problem is : JW members and Management are worried about how worldly/secular people will look at them and what they will think about them - and that is, in JW' minds as: Only True Religion and God's Earthly Organization. In this aspect , from JW point of view, JW leaders found it very important to "protect organization" as the most holy in the world. Image of Organization have to be without spot, mainly in the view of members, who have to bring themselves into thinking how World have to see WTJWorg as only true and clean organization, in one hand, and because of that, this same World have to want to destroy and persecute WTJWorg, in second hand. One part of JW mind need some sort of "recognition" made by satan' World, and other part of JW mind in the same time wish to be "persecuted" in some form, as proof that they are and belong to only true religion. It comes to the point where self-realization (individual and as organization) about the correctness of one's own path is not enough. A dose of martyrdom is required. But again, not so high a dose as to cause harm in the financial stability of the Corporation. The best option, for Corporation, would be some sort of problems and persecution toward members, without reaching too much for money of organization, without doing financial harm to the corporation.

If Montana have such law than that is obviously lawful how Supreme Court of Montana found elements that released elders and WT and Congregation from responsibility of such report. I am not expert to read documents in such a way and to see what is what into details. What is interesting, again, from several cases and Court documents known to public, is very strong interest of WT Society and JW elders to be considered in front, before secular authorities, as clergy, priesthood with all legal rights as Catholic clergy. In fact WT lawyers using Catholic clergy as example, how they want to be treated in the exactly same way. WT Society, elders and regular members have history of preaching against all religions and theirs priesthood who are instruments of satan, and how these churches and their priesthood lies to people and teach falsehoods. But now WT Society asking, in fact demands to be treated exactly in the same way, to be in same level of "spiritual position, authority" that have Catholic clergy. That is something disgusting, for observers. When taking such position, JW elders drinking "same wine of adultery" with their Catholic "colleagues". JW church has not "confession" doctrine as Catholic church has. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989217 Why? Because, JW church had not clergy ....until now :)))

JW elders are clergy and WT Lawyers have said so! The JWorg website for the public has "erroneous" information about this subject. :)) When will this "new light" about the WT Society Management structure come out titled, "What exactly are the elders in fact?", and will this be announced and presented during meetings to members, as a "clarification"?

Physical appearance of angels (in various cases that Bible described) was supernatural, or?

I also agree with this reality. But I also think it is then necessary to separate the idea that WT promotes. Again we need to ask ourselves: How does "true knowledge of God" multiply? Through "progressive knowledge"? In other words, this may mean that errors and accuracy occur through attempts. And so the results change. If one can describe the "progressive knowledge" of the Organization in this way, then it has nothing to do with their claim that the "holy spirit leads" GB and Organization with the same method, "progressive knowledge." If the holy spirit uses the "progressive knowledge" method, what is it different from the human "progressive knowledge" method? Human using "progressive knowledge" from the beginning. Somehow we can tell it is "invention" made by God when he created human brain. In Eden, Adam and Eve and their children accumulate their knowledge with years and experience. And in similar way WT Society done about Bible. I found interesting quote: “We tend to think human knowledge as progressive; because we know more and more, our parents and grandparents are back numbers. But a contrary theory is possible - that we simply recognize different things at different times and in different ways.” No matter what is the case, I am not sure how we should involve "holy spirit" in our mathematics. WT Society and GB claims how they are "guided by spirit", is just moving ordinary human try to understand something with various methods of thinking ("progressive knowledge") on "higher level" to put impression on members, who want to believe how exactly that what WT publications bring them, is/are "God's truth". Change of methods how to gain "progressive knowledge" is visible in "changed approached about type and antitype". Your article say: In times past, it was more common for our literature to take what might be called a type-antitype approach to Scriptural accounts. The Bible narrative was considered the type, and any prophetic fulfillment of the story was the antitype.... Additionally, it has been found that some of the older explanations about types and antitypes are unduly difficult for many to grasp. The details of such teachings—who pictures whom and why—can be hard to keep straight, to remember, and to apply. Of even greater concern, though, is that the moral and practical lessons of the Bible accounts under examination may be obscured or lost in all the scrutiny of possible antitypical fulfillments. ....Should we conclude that Bible narratives have only a practical application and no other meaning? No. Today our publications are more likely to teach that one thing reminds us of or serves to illustrate another. They are less likely to present many Bible accounts in a rigid framework of prophetic types and antitypes. For example, we can rightly say that Naboth’s integrity in the face of persecution and death reminds us of the integrity of Christ and his anointed. However, we can also be reminded of the faithful stand of many of the Lord’s “other sheep.” Such a clear and simple comparison has the hallmark of divine teaching.* - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015202 ..hallmark of divine teaching.. What is "divine teaching"? When WT Society had "divine teachings"? Before or after "changed approach"? Who caused "progress"? God, or human need to change what is old and making problem for WT GB theology?

That would need some research. But i am positive it can be found. :))

It doesn't matter if .... we will looking on this doctrine as of minor importance :))) and if that WT explanation have no significance and influence on some other WT explanations :)) I am in late 50's, perhaps you too. We are "younger" .... definitely :))))

Supreme Court of Montana - Reversal, January 8 2020 I chose few paragraphs, and some accentuation. The parties agree that elders are “clergy” under Montana law. Relevant here, § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA, provides: “A member of the clergy or a priest is not required to make a report under this section if the communication is required to be confidential by canon law, church doctrine, or established church practice.” ¶12 Jehovah’s Witnesses contend they are excepted from the general mandatory reporting statute pursuant to § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA. ¶15 The Jehovah’s Witnesses religion has established procedures for responding to allegations of serious sin, such as child molestation, within a congregation. When elders receive a report of physical or sexual child abuse, they are instructed to immediately call the Watchtower legal department in New York to determine whether the laws of their jurisdiction require them to report the abuse to authorities. According to the Jehovah’s 9 Witnesses, elders will report child abuse to secular authorities if required by law; otherwise, they address it internally. ¶30 Jehovah’s Witnesses point out that imposing a narrow definition of confidentiality impermissibly could discriminate between different religious beliefs and practices, protecting confidentiality of reports made in a confession from a parishioner to priest, like the traditional Catholic practice, while offering no protection to a congregant’s disclosures to a committee of elders using a process like that followed by the Jehovah’s Witnesses. “It is the duty of courts, if possible, to construe statutes in a manner that avoids unconstitutional interpretation.” State v. Mathis, 2003 MT 112, ¶ 8, 315 Mont. 378, 68 P.3d 756 (citation omitted). ¶31 Finally, both the state and federal constitutions prohibit this Court “from considering whether certain religious conduct conformed to the standards of a particular religious group.” ¶33 We hold accordingly that the undisputed material facts in the summary judgment record demonstrate as a matter of law that Jehovah’s Witnesses were not mandatory reporters under § 41-3-201, MCA, in this case because their church doctrine, canon, or practice required that clergy keep reports of child abuse confidential, thus entitling the Defendants to the exception of § 41-3-201(6)(c), MCA CONCLUSION ¶34 The District Court erred in ruling that Jehovah’s Witnesses were under a mandatory duty to report Peter or Holly McGowan’s disclosure of Maximo’s abuse and thus were negligent per se for violating § 41-3-201, MCA. We reverse and remand for entry of summary judgment in favor of Jehovah’s Witnesses. - https://jwsurvey.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Opinion-Published.pdf Well, again we see how WT Society have double talk. They claim how JW's have NO CLERGY CLASS. But it seems how in Montana they have clergy class. And they want to have the same privilege as Catholic priests, because otherwise they would have felt RELIGIOUS DISCRIMINATION. Where there is a priesthood, clergy, there are lay people. What JW members would say if they could know....?

I just ask: Are they in the heaven now? And what is evidence how they were resurrected in spiritual bodies in the 1914 (as i can recall) as WT Society made claim? I am not concerned about it because the true anointed have no need to seek each other in that way. Perhaps most of them are quite old today, and many old people, as we know, in general have no interest and motivation for digital technologies: whatsapp groups, facebook, google ..... :)))