Srecko Sostar

7 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The principle of "job change --> name change"

like your previous comment.

What was first job of The Word? Create! What was the first job of Michael? To fight! What was the first job of Jesus? To dye!

So Jesus get back to previous job position - to fight,again. After he will finish fighting, then he will get back to first job of creating, again? Or to some other future job change with name change?  

7 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

COMMON PRACTICE IN JEWISH SOCIETY

do i understand well? You are talking only about Jewish society, earthly people? You are not talking, i guess, about possibility that Spirits society members passing through the transition of changing names? I don't no what verse show us that angels or princes go through some personal drama in heaven and get new, different name. 

Or do i must lightening a little :))))

"Divine Education is Worth a Thousand Years of College"

I can agree only if we make public consensus that "divine" have nothing against all  other "education" that people not consider as "divine". 

But, all what it is in fact "education" can not be cut to pieces, with our personal inclinations to make distinction between two main level of "education", that JW member head thinks exist; religious, spiritual (in fact WT) education, and  on other side all earthly, worldly, scientifically, materialy education (in other name (fanatical expressed ) "satanic" education").

If god create universe and life as most of us believe, then he have not only "divine" but also "college" degree education :)))))    

Divine education is all sort of educations,and  not just "knowing" few verses from bible, hehe.

My understanding is that Jesus is one person, Michael is another person. 

If anyhow Jesus would be the Michael, than at the end of his prayer, bro on stage would be able to tell with no problem, and without surprise to public, "in Michael name, amen" :)))))))))  

13 hours ago, Bible Speaks said:

That was Samson’s downfall. Delilah maneuvered him

Both Samson's ladies was manipulators. And Samson was type of person who like that in some way. He personally choosing first and second wife. So, you can not blame one and other not. Both are "guilty as charged" :))))   

I am very sad because all kids in the world who died because of various reasons.   

As my memory serves me, MAIN, PRIMAR reason for collecting money (in this or that methodology or organizational way how to do it)

 IS TO HELP POOR MEMBERS OR CONGREGATIONS. Read the Bible, not old Jew type and anti-type GB illustrations.  and explanations models.

NOT to building headquarter (cathedral :))), branch Bethels, ..... but helping people to have enough for life, in flesh and spirit.  

 

 

11 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Paul

- one thing that i like with Paul is that he worked (if bible reports are correct in this )))) with own hands on "worldly job" to be able supporting himself. Most of elders and ministerial servants doing in this way too, and that is ok. But top elders in Bethel and in WT are not good example to be compared with Paul in this matter.

Wish you all best.  

24 minutes ago, Anna said:

Raymond's opportunity to really expose this "huge problem".

Do not know, of course, what Raymond knew and not about paedophilia. When i was said "huge" i was thinking as big in  in relation to;

a) the general attitude of the JW organization and the excitement that its members are a highly moral person

b)  the number of members worldwide and the number of victims and their perpetrators, which are not publicly known, except for the Australian number that has become public, some write about 20-30 thousand pedophiles in JW. That's not a small figure for 8 million JW. Publication WT once wrote that every year some 80,000 members are excluded/disfellowshipped. So it is "huge" number no matter what was "sin".

39 minutes ago, Anna said:

$80 million dollars on stamps

or on luxury of new headquarters and WT logo on drain elements,  huh 

42 minutes ago, Anna said:

The organization is about preaching the good news

members are preaching for sure, but one big part of WT religious bureaucracy have different mission  

Thanks for conversation.  

"Germany Grants Highest Legal Status to Jehovah’s Witnesses" - i tried to found this article on Croatian JWorg to see how some terminology was translated to be able better understand the article but there is not existing this article - ??

Some quote from main source JWorg (english):

"Now that the Witnesses have finally been granted public law status in all German states, they are viewed as a single religious entity and enjoy the benefits that this status provides....the Witnesses applied for public law status because of the benefits...registered throughout the country as a public law corporation,...more than 2,000 congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany now function under a single corporate structure... Adjustments in an association’s structure resulting from an appointment of new elders, purchase of property, or the renaming or merging of congregations had to be reported to the government...A longtime elder in one congregation commented: “Now we have greater freedom to use donated funds to support the public ministry of congregation members.”...Without the superior legal status of public law, Jehovah’s Witnesses were not viewed as a mainstream religion...many false allegations against the Witnesses can be refuted....false allegation that they belonged to a ‘sect’ rather than to a religion.”...

All in all, WT corporation in Germany are now  lifted on higher level of religious bureaucracy (german people always has been organized very well :)))  and WT long asking, searching that JW be recognized as mainstream religion was successful. Now they are  officially  joined to  Babylon the Great with all others mainstream and less mainstream religions. Because of money issue of course, as first and main reason :))) at least they are now "function under single e corporate structure" according to article. 

Definition of corporate  Merriam-Webster

44 minutes ago, Anna said:

Incredibly huge? That is a relative concept.

I agree. Everything is relative, depend where some man position is. If you are victim nothing is easy, but if you are just observer who is not touched by other people suffering or problem, indeed all that is "relative" :((((

44 minutes ago, Anna said:

A drop in the ocean. The majority of cases are settled out of court, and don't forget, the WT uses its own lawyers, so no lawyer fees there.

How can you be so insensitive again?? First with other people's feelings and problems in life, and now with other people's  money? Drop? That is not drop because most of JW members are not rich with money, have modest income. And everything have to be payed, even own lawyers in this way or another

44 minutes ago, Anna said:

It was never hidden.

Yes it is! And still now you have no one court case or settlement out of court announced on JWorg TV, not mentioned about how much money they paid to victims in his reports. No columns in Yearbook on that issue. That is  nothing but hiding.

44 minutes ago, Anna said:

principles are great,

"Two or three witness rule principe" are also great. haha 

15 hours ago, Anna said:

new circumstances, but the principles behind them do no change

Dear , "new circumstances" are in this; problem of child molestation in JWorg are incredibly huge. And it was "huge" because of numbers of victims and court cases, and millions of $ that WT Corporation have to pay. It is also because it was hidden in front JW members all this decades. 

"Principles" is/are something else. Principles are not that, after reading some bible verses or reports man come to conclusion, to inspirational "new light" and say; "this is bible principle!" No, verses, events that you are reading are other people experience and way how they solve their problems. That is not always role model how you, today must solving your problems.   

"Principles"  - with this word, especially when someone add "Bible principles", human leaders in WT corp. are caused more problems than would be without such idea.

Bible is "TWO EDGED SWORD" !          

On 9/28/2017 at 18:58, Gone Fishing said:

alternative suggestions.

Hi, as i see you have good intention. But in JW org there is/are no alternative nor suggestions. Only "obey" WT. :)  

“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

Biblical practice that was legalized on the level of religious and political authority in the Israeli people.

As all Bible books are inspired, than this particular text, reports are given by authority of god through Moses and other leaders in those patriarchal days are also for benefit not only for past days but for this days too :)). But it should be borne in mind that such customs, in fact laws, war laws and other laws, are not unique to the Israeli nation alone. This was the case with the nations that existed before Israel, during Israel and after Israel.

So, that is how we come to the first question. Why does the Israeli newborn nation have, as some today presume, "exalted, superior moral laws", but in these decrees, are the same as the laws of pagan peoples.  

Go through  books, Numbers 31, Deuteronomy 13:16;  20:14; Judge 5:30, and especially for this comment i would put accent on Deuteronomy 21:10-14. After reading verses and context, ask your conscience as first step - Would you do that as male, soldier for god?? How would you respond if your family been attacked  from such soldiers? And if you female - how would you feel that strangers kill your family and took you with them as war spoil? To take you because you are beautiful and virgin, because he, soldier want you? What is inspired and divine and loving in such commands?

But, hey this is normal practice for pagans and normal "bible" practice for god's chosen people. 

Here we come to issue of slavery. . When the Bible refers to female slaves who do not “please” their masters, we’re talking about the sexual use of slaves. Likewise when the Bible spells out the conditions for marrying a slave (see Exodus 21:7-11).   We have examples as Abraham and Sara. Sara gave her female slave to be sexual slave to her husband for particular reason. We have Joseph who has been  in young age, slave for others, but later he became lord, dynast and have own slaves, and generating slavery in Egypt, in time of food shortage. We can talk also about, military slavery,  debt slavery and economic slavery  for reasons of natural catastrophes and social problems on small or grand scale. 

If someone think that slavery has been better, more compassionate, more merciful in Israel then in "pagan" nations i will put ? on that. 

To go back on the beginning of post, practice and customs in old Israel  today causing disgust and disbelief in modern people's life even, i supposed in the mind of every normal JW member. Celebrating birth of own child looks very harmless and innocent to me.

Have a good day and night without nightmares after picturing, visualize yourself bible events and customs and practice about which you will never hear, study in public talks or study editions of WT  

1 hour ago, John Houston said:

I want to hear this!

hehe, ok i will take time, not immediately, please be little patient, and will pick few things that was "biblical" practice of old Jew nation. Such things, rules, paragraphs was incorporate in the Law, and by that legislative body in Israel nation was just obey what God has said (if God said that!?) and legalised practice, custom and rules that, in fact was not, i think, something specific for nation of Israel only, but for all or many other nations way of dealing with similar life matters in those time.   

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It's all about money with these guys.

Your apple. :)) and the tree of knowledge. 

11 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

They didn't say angels did they?

I was not listen yet Annual Meeting, in fact this is meeting which should be called with real name Annual Shareholders assembly :))))

Ok, on angels. Nothing is new about that. They always have this idea, of helping angels, because of some bible texts. And they promote that idea from time to time. For us who has been inside JW for long time, knowing that very well. For newbie is new.    

13 minutes ago, Bible Speaks said:

Keep reading the Chariot is on the MOVE! 

?????

:)))) i would not call you naive but sincere, it sounds better  

12 minutes ago, Bible Speaks said:

Learn what the Master says today!

Oh dear, do you want to tell by this sentence how Master has been silence in past decades? and that He is not One who showed old light to GB/FDS?  

I am not "attacking" without knowledge about "old and new light". What i am doing is something that is very good in fact.  Actually -  

1) „It is not religious persecution for an informed person to expose publicly a certain religion as being false. … To make a public exposure of false religion is … a public service.“ - Watchtower magazine, Nov 15, 1963, Article: „Execution of Divine Judgement upon False Religion“, page 688, par. 3.

2) It also does not hold back from exposing religious falsehood.—Matthew 15:9; 23:27, 28. - https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/which-religion-is-true/

As you can see "old light" from 1963 is the same as "new light" on JW library in 21 century. In other words nothing has changed, The Same Light Still Shining.    

6 minutes ago, Bible Speaks said:

Not a Biblical practice

6 minutes ago, Bible Speaks said:

“There is nothing better for them than to rejoice and to do good during one’s life; and also that every man should eat and indeed drink and see good for all his hard work. It is the gift of God.

Dear BS, Biblical practice is very wide concept. And some Bible practice that God JHVH allowed and even commanded through the law, prophets, priests and kings is something that would not be good to practice today. Do not "force" me :))) to count bible reports about old Jew practice.

1 hour ago, Bible Speaks said:

the Jews did not believe in Birthdays neither did Jesus

I do not understand the semantic in your wording choice, selection

"I do not believe in birthday."

What is "birthday" that anyone should believe in that? :)))

1 hour ago, Bible Speaks said:

Jesus inaugurated

Jesus never told nothing against custom or people who celebrate birthday. What Bible report said that he proclaimed how celebrating birthday is a sin, against God? But he counted some other things as bad, didn't he?

Wedding rings, white dress for bride, cake, wedding anniversary (aka birthday of marriage) and similar customs have "pagan" source, but still JW members doing this all and more. So please, be kind and look both side of medal.

What today JW or anyone else have with Jewish customs and traditions? But you put all that as role models and guidance as  something that will pleased God if we imitate. Did not God all that Jewish stuffs live in fire and dust? 

And Jesus was not "ordinary" Jew. Why you compare him with other people of his time. He came to change everything from the very fundament. Not only to change but to replace all that what Jewish had. He is the first one who sit and eat and fun with sinners, HE changed The LAW with such behaviour. And you today have problem if somebody want to memorize the day of birth. Awake dear   

“Because Christians can be loyal both to God and to earthly governments they can take oaths of allegiance to defend the Constitution, as is required of citizens in some countries in order to get a passport.” Watchtower 1964 Sep 15 p.551

“Christians refused to . . . sacrifice to the emperor’s genius—roughly equivalent today to refusing to salute the flag or repeat the oath of allegiance.” Watchtower 1975 Aug 15 p. 497

 Mat 1:18- "This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about : ...

Luke 2:11- "Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. 12 This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.” 13 Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying, ..."

Mat. 2:11- "On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh." 

This is the third mentioned birthday in the Bible besides two you mentioned. And as we all very clearly can see it is nothing against God if people rejoicing and giving present to person that was born on particular day.

Children that has been killed by Herod are not killed because birthday party for Jesus (angels, great company of heaven, shepherds, parents, singing, gifts) but because Herod.

Thanks for good post :)))