Srecko Sostar

1881 as Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society

1884 as Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society, Inc

In 1896, the society was renamed Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, Inc

WTBTS of Pennsylvania, New York  and other sister companies around the world.

Corporation have (to mention few things): Registered Agent, Share per Value, Number of Authorized shares of Stock, Directors, Officers, Corporate Law, Business Administration, Limited Liability, Delegated Management, The Board of Directors, Shareholders.

Annual Meeting is nothing else but Annual Meeting of Shareholders (300-500 in WT)  Program is mixture of Bible interpretations and  reports about company's operations in the current year with and how looks plans for future period.  

This is what JW members listen  in fact via JW TV broadcast National Television. (lucky for them without any commercials about shampoo or pasta..., for now. Asking for money is not commercial :)))))  

1 hour ago, Cheepcheep said:

vindication

Definition of vindicate

vindicated; vindicating

transitive verb

1a :to free from allegation or blame

b (1) :confirm, substantiate 

(2) :to provide justification or defense for :justify

c :to protect from attack or encroachment :defend

 

1 hour ago, Cheepcheep said:

sanctification

Definition of sanctification

1:an act of sanctifying

2a :the state of being sanctified

b :the state of growing in divine grace as a result of Christian commitment after baptism or conversion

 

 

If you allow me to say; Do not worry about JHVH as name or He as God. He can take care of himself quite well.

JW members, or you as one of them ,  need to take care about personal, private protecting own sanctification because - "The generic meaning of sanctification is "the state of proper functioning."  In the theological sense, things are sanctified when they are used for the purpose God intends. A human being is sanctified, therefore, when he or she lives according to God's design and purpose.

Wish  you all best! :))

 

 

On 10/8/2017 at 14:29, Ann O'Maly said:

End of a long era. Yearbooks have been produced for about 90 years!

My ex friend, he is still JW (dissident JW, hehe) ones told me how Yearbook is modern Bible for JW. Wonder, what he thinking now or what he told after heard this good news. :))))   

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

5 hours ago, J.R. Ewing said: But as we know, with the “purge” there we 29,893 that got disfellowshipped,

I remembered that  one WT study edition mentioned (before 25-30 years) how cca 60 000 JW members are df every year. Recently i have been read that this number now is about 80 000 per year.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

Sure, we also have carried over some odd doctrinal traditions, but there is no excess focus on such kinds of doctrines. When the GB have looked more closely at some of these through careful Bible study, they have made changes that seem to be almost always for the better, in my opinion. And is it a bad thing that the rest of us follow their lead, and adjust our thinking right along with them? Not at all. It shows that we are not married to the incorrect doctrines of the past. It shows that we humbly follow along and understand  that progress will continue. We don't think it necessary to get out there and clamor for changes on our own timetable. We are satisfied that the rate of progress is reasonable. When Brother Splane gave a talk about this recently, he used the example of a person who just loved the ideas about the "great pyramid" but that when the change was made, he humbly accepted and followed the lead. He used this as an example for those who just loved the ideas about the prophetic dramas in all the Bible narratives and parables. Yet now that these hundreds of doctrines are being dropped, the brothers will humbly accept and follow the lead -- appreciating the progress.

This is a public forum, however, open to people who can read material and evidence from anywhere. So it is also a good place for Witnesses to show that they can hold their own opinions too. And even for fellow Witnesses, there is something called the Inoculation Effect or Inoculation Theory that can make it easier for other Witnesses to understand what kinds of changes and effect the Internet will undoubtedly have on us in the next few years. We will either have to completely change our focus onto "low-information" converts, or face facts. I prefer that we allow all ends of the information spectrum without prejudice.

It depends on JW person, and how he/she have need to focus himself on particular doctrines :))))) 

Adjust our thinking is good thing. But is that necessary to be according to GB adjustments or to some other source/s  is/are for further consideration.

Would  it be ok that JW member and/or person who are in study process to become JW, be warned in advance, that with accepting today's "light" he/she is not in "light" at all? And to understand how "the truth" at this very moment of his present  time, while he adopts it  as "pure water of truth from JHVH  spiritual table" is/are in fact under huge question and with real possibility and not only possibility but reality, how big portion of "food" is/are incorrect doctrines? And that his Second Yes (on second baptismal question from June 1 1985), on the day of baptism, means Yes for the progress will continue   And Not For The Main Reason - "You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." Because he in fact don't know the truth for reason of - the truth are in progress and no one knows what will progress look like.  

You are, dear JWI, very experienced and you know very well how own opinions ended after judicial committee found that person is not "repentant enough and want to hold on own opinions" - ahahhaha. Because what is the purpose of having Own Opinions only on this or similar Forums and not be able that "this fire inside you" go out in the world and give testimony to other, to be Witness for Jesus, as he command or ask or hope we would be? To give even wrong testimony, it is not fail, because tomorrow is new day and our personal truth will experienced enlightening and will be new truth next day. :)))) 

 

7 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Barbara Anderson

This is from her official website;

Barbara Anderson was a member of Jehovah’s Witnesses from 1954 through 1997. She worked at Watchtower’s headquarters in Brooklyn, NY, from 1982 to 1992 where during her last four years there, she researched the movement’s official history (published in 1993) and did research as well as wrote a number of articles for their Awake! magazine. While working in the organization’s Writing Department, Barbara discovered that the Watchtower organization covered up child sexual molestation committed by Jehovah’s Witnesses..... 

7 hours ago, Nicole said:

Previous case law has confirmed the ability of religious or private voluntary groups to govern themselves and dictate who can be a member.

Normally. :):)

7 hours ago, Nicole said:

Wall was expelled from the congregation for getting drunk and not be properly repentant,...The church committee concluded he was “not sufficiently repentant.”

Perhaps my English is not sufficient, but here i see two separate issue. 1) expelled from congregation 2) not be properly repentant. My question is, For what reason Wall was disfellowshipped? Because of "for getting drunk" or because he was not been "properly repentant" ??? If he was df because of "been drunk" we can complicate issue on this with questions; Who can determine "drunkenness", by what parameter  public can see that one person is drunk? By his walking left/right? By alcometer and degrees of alcohol  in blood as in traffic law? Who and how and by what behaviour others can said, He is drunk? What is permitted level of alcohol in JW congregation to be able to say, this bro or sis drinking too much?  This questions are just for mediate a little more on issue. 

Another  thing is "not be properly repentant". This is very slip area. Even for "spiritually mature" elders :))))). I will not talking this time about how "Sheperd book" try to explain what is the "signs" of "truthful" repentance. It is complicated for elders to be judges of MOTIVES, and by entering in repentance issue, that is what in fact it is. Entering in "heart and mind and kidneys". Elders has no education, education of several levels, only some personal experience, to be able to properly look into  the "deepness of soul".

So by that i hold understanding how no one can be, and should not be disfellowshipped due to "quantity, types and the way of expression" of repentance.  

7 hours ago, Nicole said:

“Secular judges have no authority and no expertise to review a church membership decision,” said a statement from Andre Schutten, a spokesman for the group.

This is area for lawyers and philosophers and other sociologists and anthropologist. But i would cut this "knot" very easy for the purpose of this panel discussion. Romans 13:1 nwt said:  "Let every person* be in subjection to the superior authorities,+ for there is no authority except by God;+ the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.+ 2  Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves. 3  For those rulers are an object of fear, not to the good deed, but to the bad.+ Do you want to be free of fear of the authority? Keep doing good,+ and you will have praise from it; 4  for it is God’s minister to you for your good. But if you are doing what is bad, be in fear, for it is not without purpose that it bears the sword. It is God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath* against the one practicing what is bad.      

By this inspired words, as to my interpretation and understanding , secular authority can, if they want, going into the field of "church rules and regulations, customs and social mores of group" to determine is it acceptable or not.           

Perhaps GB stick to the story of multiplying Masters money in too literal meaning and working with money in various ways. Investments funds of all sorts, buying, selling and building real estates. ... And is it not strange how US people, citizens are founders of WT Company-Religion? Because US are very good soil for prosperity in various way.    hehe  

The Witnesses purchased the building in 1975 . 

Who normally would have spend money to buy building in this old  wicked system just before 1975 Armageddon ??  

Did Jesus, when on earth, wear a beard? Certainly it was a custom strictly held by the Jews. Jesus, born a Jew, “came to be under law” and he fulfilled the Law. (Ga 4:4; Mt 5:17) Like all other Jews, Jesus was dedicated to Jehovah God from his birth, by reason of the Law covenant, and was under obligation to keep the whole Law, including the prohibition on shaving the extremity of the beard. Also, at the time that Jesus was on earth, the Roman custom was beardlessness. Therefore, if Jesus had been beardless, he would have been challenged as being either a eunuch or a Roman. Significantly, a prophecy concerning Jesus’ suffering states: “My back I gave to the strikers, and my cheeks to those plucking off the hair.”—Isa 50:6.  - Insight, Volume 1 p. 266-267

In old Israel "spiritual paradise" of 1 century male congregants wear beard. That was fine way to show they belonged to true religion in opposition to Romans who surrounded them, physically and spiritually .

Today JW members living also in own spiritual paradise. And they are surrounded too, physically and spiritually, by "Romans and Egyptians and others". But it is little confusing, because one part of those "worldly people" wears beards and one part not. So it is really difficult for GB to make up their mind and chose what is the best solution for male JW members. How to make right distinction between JW who wear beard and non-JW who wear beard too?? How to make right distinction between JW who are beardless and non-JW who are also beardless?? :))))))

11 minutes ago, Witness said:

Nope, it's not the same

yeah, not the same. I put ? by mistake. Thanks. Will delete sign ? :))

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

you would not understand the 'ransom' properly to be able to receive any mercy from Jehovah in the first place - if you did not understand these basic teachings of the bible properly

Just to heat up a little about; sin, ransom, dead.

 "What Does the Bible Really Teach?", chapter five about Ransom, JWorg library quotes;

 "It is a gift from God to mankind... Clearly, then, when Adam disobeyed God and was condemned to death, he paid a very high price. His sin cost him his perfect human life with all its blessings. (Genesis 3:17-19) Sadly, Adam lost this precious life not only for himself but also for his future offspring. God’s Word says: “Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.” (Romans 5:12). ...The idea of a ransom basically involves two things. First, a ransom is the price paid to ...Second, a ransom is the price that covers, or pays, the cost of something....By sacrificing, or giving up, his perfect life in flawless obedience to God, Jesus paid the price for Adam’s sin. Jesus thus brought hope to Adam’s offspring.—Romans 5:19; 1 Corinthians 15:21, 22......

21 hours ago, Anna said:

...they have been waiting, and waiting...

So my question was, what could have made them disappointed?  

Is waiting problem? What Bible say:

"Hope deferred makes the heart sick,    but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life." (Proverbs 13:12)

Who, what can bring hope, comfort instead disappointment: 

"For just as we share abundantly in the sufferings of Christ, so also our comfort abounds through Christ."(2. Cor 1:5)

BUT as  explained here "sufferings of Christ", NOT in sufferings according to GB interpretations of  what are, what can be, what have to be this sufferings. Would people be disappointed for reasons of Christ teachings or for reasons of human interpretations on Christ teachings?? You or me can take that luxus (done from our comfortable room)  and judge motives and reasons for someone's disappointed and perhaps so called "spiritual fall". But is it fall or just awakening from dream and deceived mind we builded through years in JWorg?

Answers for your question are not, can not be  just "simplified edition" (WT magazine simplified edition, hehehe) as we can conclude in first look. We can make "general conclusion" but it would be unjustifiable and without deep insight on human and influence of this or that  thing that was make them compliant, easily influenced from organized religion hierarchy (clergy, priests, elders, GB) My comments are just starting to open the door for answers.    

12 hours ago, Anna said:

By the way I couldn't find that quote in the WT you cited. I'm sure its there somewhere. I personally don't like the term "obedience" with respect to humans, but rather cooperation.

¹⁵ Spiritual food from the faithful and discreet slave class is disseminated to local congregations by appointed elders. The Bible admonishes us: “Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over your souls as those who will render an account; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you.” (Heb. 13:17) Does this mean that congregation elders are infallible? Of course not! God sees their imperfections more clearly than any human can. Still, he expects us to be submissive. Cooperating with the elders, even though they are imperfect, gives evidence that we accept Jehovah’s authority. - w08 6/15 p. 21-22

Things that would be damaging us is/are accepting anything that this imperfect humans told members they have to do. 

Biblical logic is this:

One Bible verse (Heb. 13:17) told people how they need to obey other human who are leading, governing over other group of people. It is a little weird that Paul talking about "elders" (in fact human who have same imperfections as "flock") as those who "keeping watch over your souls" . How one human can watch soul of another human at all? Adult person can watch over kids and children. But  after person had come to some "maturity" he/she is responsible to own "soul" not John or Mark. You personally will give "answer" for yourself. And no one else will be responsible for your fall or rise.  

Second Bible verse (Rom. 13:1) said: "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which is from God. The authorities that exist have been appointed by God. Here we have command that "elders and flock" are under "worldly authority". Did/Does JWorg obey all what secular authority put on JW members? We all know that it is not the case. WT JW org found "biblical reasons" why not to obey, to be submissive to secular authority. For the same way of logic it would be normal for JW flock to refuse to obey (to put himself in submissive position) some or many or every instruction that come from GB, elders or WT Company.

Third Bible verse. (Eccl. 8:9) "All of this I have seen, and I applied my heart to every work that has been done under the sun, during the time that man has dominated man to his harm. " Even WT teaching that it is not JHVH will, it is not natural, that men rule over another men. And how He is not created men for such purpose. But WT Company still have hierarchy as any other worldly Company (or church).

51 minutes ago, J.R. Ewing said:

This way, you can "like" each other!!

Oh man :)))

You have done little or lot of research by quoting some bible verses, but please "translate", put it in plain and simple language of life you live every day, if possible.    

3 minutes ago, J.R. Ewing said:

to “Srecko” sarcasm,

-quotation from some WT article, i supposed:  "Ask yourself: ‘Does my religion promote genuine love toward all, even toward those who may want to hurt me?"

Mr Erwing You can be partially right in your  response to me. But my copy/paste of this sentence had other purpose. To put in some everyday reality with this claim and to hear answers; what is, how look like that essence, that moving power in religious doctrine, in teachings in deeds "of my religion". To be possible and to be sure how that "something" in "religion"  can, will, would produce in some believer, or in me personally,  to "love" someone whose intention is to hurt you. 

"Normal" reaction on someone's "attack" on you is to make self defend or to fight back or to run away. But how is looks like "loving your attacker" is little mystery to me.

What is "genuine" love?

What is meaning of , how looks like "love toward hurter?

How looks promoting love to hurter? 

41 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

the car

But "the car" is here, it is reality, it exist, it moves. No matter about what those around "the car" thinking  

23 hours ago, Bible Speaks said:

Ask yourself: ‘Does my religion promote genuine love toward all, even toward those who may want to hurt me?

On 10/29/2017 at 05:08, Anna said:

But really, it's only weeding out those who are disappointed over selfish things, why else would they be disappointed?

Anna, it is possible that i missed a point, or not understand quite clear, in this sentence. Would you simplified it for me, please, in some other words.

Selfish things (what selfish things?) and - who done selfish things? Disappointed people? Or people who are not disappointed and stay in WT org?  

Thanks in advance.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

surely 'liking' the comment of an apostate is a form of association.

If person (JW or ???...) buy some product from some worldly private person, company did he/she by that "liking" this satan world. If bro or sis recommended to other bro or sis how this product  is good and useful did he/she gives "liking" to satan world? And by that became supporter of "evil things"?  

You complicate your life and mind and emotions and spread own insecurity. You will "stumble" some weak, fragile person here.   

But i can understand. Just do it. It is normal. Do not be afraid of your thoughts.    

20 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

Your clarity in explaining this dilemna indicates your experience of it , it would seem.

No. I just have different mind and emotions. Nothing special. ;)) 

When i was JW i was not have such aversion to ex members, even do not meet them at all. But before few years on district convention (1-2 days) i say hello to one disfellowshipped sister from my ex congregation. She just answer with look. But that was saw one brother who do not know that i know "status" of that sister. He cam e to me and friendly say how she is df. I just listen with no words. Than he went to sister and told her how she must "warning" people around her that she is df and telling aloud "I am unclean, Iam unclean!".

Idiotic :))))))))  

P.S. I remembered i meet  few times df members, but they are acted the way they do not want contact. Then i was much younger and inexperienced and somehow unprepared for something that i stand for today    

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I would never ever say "I can not help you anymore."

can't help more than i am doing talking with you :)) or do you like if i invite you for a coffee, hehee

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is a matter of showing consideration for the other person

this is nice, but as GB see things you have not to take care about ex members. So, stumbling me, yourself or some other on this forum is always possible

3 hours ago, Anna said:

it's only weeding out those who are disappointed over selfish things,

No Anna, i disagree with this final conclusion you had made on people. 

3 hours ago, Anna said:

those who endure to the end will be saved.

:))) that is true, hehe

11 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

stumbled someone

I know how some of you, or almost all, as JW member had doubts and conscience questions about talking with someone like me. But according to some WT publications texts of GB given advice or can be said instructions, Forum like this and other kind of similar "gatherings" of JW members (arguing, discussions, expressing thoughts, comments and similar, that are not in line with official, temporary teachings) are in fact some kind of "rebellion", and going against "Mother organization" .

JW members had not WT approval, permission to talk in this manner even if they had some "questions". According to GB instructions, if any of you have some "serious questions about your faith and WT doctrines" you need to go to elders, because they are entitled to hear and to help you in any "spiritual doubts or question". By WT you are all in break of the rule and by that show "disrespect" for FDS aka GB and by their logic, this is directly disobeying JHVH.

I can not help you any more. You have find solutions in your conscience, whatever, however your conscience looks like, in whatever condition it is.   No hard feeling.              

17 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I was about to explode over this but then

:))))) i am not worthy of your nerves ....

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

LOVE is the sign of a true disciple - anointed or not.   I chatted with a smart but sweet anointed sister in South Africa and she said to me....... Arauna, when in doubt -- show love (and I do show self-sacrificing love) when in doubt - because this always brings the best results!

Hi! Your post is interesting. And you highlight few good thoughts, generally. When you connecting this two;  "LOVE is the sign of a true disciple" and "Arauna, when in doubt -- show love" that remind me of something -

We have some bible records, examples, lessons from Jesus or before him and after him. Next we have inside state of mind and heart, conscious and something you called "social" maturity. And third thing we have "social" influence from WT Society and society inside self  as group that existing on various level inside JWorg; family, friends, congregation, brotherhood in small and wide space. As fourth thing i would mentioned two parallel power that are in JW member. That is Natural, God given conscience at one side and "bible trained" conscience builded by WT JWorg social influence as kind of group consensus based on Bible and WT Charter and other written and unwritten rules, code, traditions.  

In some situations these two kind of senses (conscience) on what is wrong and right are in conflict. I noticed that in, for example, situations when JW meet with ex members, accidentally meet on the street or similar. JW member suffocate, represses this Natural conscience (to show love or let me to used wording in "simplified edition" :)))) to show just polite behaviour, bon-ton, "social" maturity) and not want to say even Hello to ex JW. Some JW are fanatically hold on this GB instructions, some are more or less liberate and make greetings. So, whatever conclusion or decisions you personally have or made if found yourself in such situations, for me it is interesting that South Africa sister counsel -

"When in doubt--show love"