Srecko Sostar

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

When you have people working for you

sorry, i have wrongly supposed that all this bro and sis working for God or Jesus :))))))

13 hours ago, Witness said:

he only endorses what he has built – the Body of Christ.

superb!

13 hours ago, Witness said:

Disfellowshipping is a spiritual “stoning”

excellent compare !   

5 hours ago, Anna said:

They do this full time, so when would you expect them to go to work to earn money for a living?

JTR gives you, Anna, biblical answer :)) on non biblical question, hehehe.

No hard feeling dear Anna, but what to do with such logic that are opposite to main purpose and expectations that JHVH have from the first day when he was threw first human from paradise. Do Work my son, do work. In paradise was the way of living not to do nothing hard, but smiling and giving names to animals, and eating and sleeping. Obviously some people today want to create paradise again. "You do work but i will not work - because you working already"     :))))

11 hours ago, Witness said:

is really twisted

Thanks for your ability to notice, to see, to understand and have good, accurate perception on WT GB manipulation they doing  with the "help" of Bible, Jesus and JHVH. They made one explanation that suites to them for reason of "daily politics theme in regard to so called apostates"  with two confusing verses that belong to so different time events and reasons of why it was told to Israel.

In fact GB put JHVH and Jesus on opposite camps. Jesus said, who see me see father... i am not telling nothing that my father not telling...and similar". But here, for need to give lesson to JW members, WT GB followers, they said how OT words have more power than NT words. Despite the fact how that same JHVH prophesied that he will made New Law in Heart of people not on stone or paper. But no, GB stick with OT "stone heart" and not on NT "spirit heart" that is not bond to written law, regulations, paragraphs, rules ....... from human. 

You point very well on GB discrepancy. I will continue with comments on this part from WT magazine paragraph; .... "Jesus encouraged his followers to love their enemies, but God's Word also says to "hate what is bad." When a person persists in a way of badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of his make-up..."

1 )Jesus IS GOD'S WORD :))) so this word BUT have no place in  GB interpretation. 

2) Second, they dare to put themselves as God. God is able to see in deep things of "heart and kidneys" , but here GB said that they know what is with person and made final judgement about "bad is ingrained" in person's heart with no hope to change. This is blasphemy, GB put themselves in Judge Throne and suggest that all average JW member have also the same right and power to analysed other people heart and make own judgement what would be future of that person. Idiotic premise. 

Tragedy and comedy in one     

 

Is this sound like hate speech?

Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.11 
"Apostates “quietly” bring their ideas into the congregation, like criminals who secretly bring things into a country. Apostates use “counterfeit words.” This means that they say things that make their false ideas sound true, like criminals who make false documents look real. They try to get as many people as possible to believe their “deceptive teachings.” Peter also said that they like twisting the Scriptures. They explain Bible verses in the wrong way to make others believe their ideas. (2 Peter 2:1, 3, 13; 3:16) Apostates do not care about us. If we follow them, we will leave the road to everlasting life. 
... The Bible says that apostates are mentally diseased and that they use their teachings to make others think like them. (1 Timothy 6:3, 4) Jehovah is like that good doctor. He clearly tells us to stay away from false teachers. We must always be determined to follow his warning. 

Watchtower 2004 Feb 15 p.28 
"It would be a mistake to think that you need to listen to apostates or to read their writings to refute their arguments. Their twisted poisonous reasoning can cause spiritual harm and can contaminate your faith like rapidly spreading gangrene. (2 Timothy 2:16, 17) Rather, imitate God's response to apostates. Job said of Jehovah: "Before him no apostate will come in." - Job 13:16." 

Watchtower 1993 November 1 p.19 
"True Christians share Jehovah's feelings toward such apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On the contrary, they "feel a loathing" toward those who have made themselves God's enemies, but they leave it to Jehovah to execute vengeance." 

Watchtower 1992 July 15 pp.12-13 Christ Hated Lawlessness-Do You? 
"The obligation to hate lawlessness also applies to all activity by apostates. Our attitude toward apostates should be that of David, who declared: "Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you " 

Watchtower 1961 July 15 p.420 A Time and Place for Everything 
Jesus encouraged his followers to love their enemies, but God's Word also says to "hate what is bad." When a person persists in a way of badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of his make-up, then in order to hate what is bad a Christian must hate the person with whom the badness is inseparably linked. Indicating that Jesus did not mean for us to love the hardened enemies of Jehovah, David expressed this God-approved attitude: "Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies."-Matt. 5:44; Amos 5:15; Ps. 139:21, 22. 

Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?

Legal Department and lawyers which are involved in process have documents. Own and from prosecutor. But have no obligation to put it in public. Whether they have documents (transcripts) it depend, i think, did they ask for transcript, did Russian court have obligation or not to produce transcripts to lawyers. 

But no matter on reality did they have or not documents, JW members are "not authorized, entitled to hear confidential informations"  :))) and will never be!

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

I speak from a worldly perspective.......We are not different to other people - the same as everyone else.  The only difference is that one cannot remain a Witness without Jehovah's spirit.

Apologize if i am little boring in responding to your comments, but as you know already - "When words are many, transgression is not lacking"

I would like to point to one problem that arise in JW Organizational perception and perception from JW member. If JW member want to be true Jesus follower than he need, must to reject "worldly perspective" in purpose to be more close to Jesus personality and imitating his faith and to show "fruits of spirit", and to dress on "new personality". Purpose is in that true Jesus disciple can be different (in positive way) from people who do not want or wish or are not familiar with "godly personality". That is possible as you already wrote with JHVH spirit. 

So, you are confusing yourself and us who reading your thoughts with opposite standpoint, again, - "your worldly perspective" how it is need to deal with people who are lazy or have other kind of problems in JW church AND with your suggestion, request that all true JW member, including yourself, have to show "JHVH spirit".  But is it good, possible to mix "worldly perspective with JHVH spirit" and in the finals be satisfied in own eye, and in eye of other christians how our position before god is very well?   

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

but people expect the JW organization to be

If you think about JW people expectation, here is good to say how all people have some rational and irrational "expectation" about congregation and people inside  and WT organization at all, and on Bible interpretations about present and future promises that was made by GB. :))))

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

With money that other witnesses pay for.....With money that other witnesses pay for ...

Here i would like to say, how is not Natural that some people supporting other people who are health and able to work with own hands and earn money for daily bread. So this WT organizational arrangement (Bethel, missionary, pioneers, some traveling elders) where some people are in position to live on other people's expense is not normal. It is like in Catholic church against which WT talking a lot, but shows similar illness in this matter.

Have a good evening  

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

We are not an American company.

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

BUT the other side of the coin is: ...

 

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Any company in the world works this way.   Why should they tolerate ...

:))))))))))))))))))) Dear Aruna you supporting and defending two statement that  are opposite to each other. Hard to understand  . One defending holiness of WT organization but other supporting "worldly" way of how WT dealing with office stuff, personnel, workers on various levels inside the WT Corporation. 

But i agree on your thoughts, how many bro and sis have personal ("hidden", ahahhahaa motives why want to be in Bethel) Some are benevolent and tolerantly, some are naive and some are looking for "status" in JW society. This characteristic proves that JW member are not so much different, better then "worldly" people. As popular song say, "people are the same where ever you go  ..... tralalallaala". 

On 4/21/2017 at 19:20, Shiwiii said:

No one should be banned from worshiping in the manner in which they see fit. 

Hi Shiwiii :). This is very democratic and modern attitude. But I think how things are on other levels. Namely, GB like very much to talk about "bible principles" and many of them are in OT. IN Old Testament The LAW said people have to be stoned and killed if they "worshiping in the manner they see fit."     :))))))))))

So, think that it is count only - who have power and authority in the moment. In one old WT magazine GB shared the same look on the apostates and stoning them if they can, but because we live in our time and political systems that is not possible for GB to put in practice.

"Could Someone Be Disfellowshipped For Not Believing In...?"

My answer on this will be in indirect way. And that would give you new perspective on WT mentality. Elders are nothing else but product of Corporation. And they, in general, acting in that manner. 

This topic, the question is certainly interesting. I will tell you personally experience with two elders. After they told me how they not believes in anything that WT teaches,  I have asked both of them, the same questions. And I got the same answers. 

My first question was: If they does not believe everything from the  WT publications, how is possible that they, from the podium, teaching others what they personally does not believe?Second question was: Do you have a peaceful conscience, because you are telling others how they need to believe  that what you, in fact, not believes?

They answered me; " I say that's so in the literature (that is stated in magazine, study article) and I'm not talking about my personal beliefs."

My final question was;  Why don't you act like JW kids at school, on biology class, when it comes to evolution theory and the emergence of life. JW children say, give answer in class to all students and professors ; "School book say that human came in life by evolution. But i don't believe in that. I believe how god created humans."  Why you not doing the same as that brave JW children? To say from podium, or while sitting in auditorium giving comment; "WT  book, magazine, publication say this/that.. but i don't believe in such teaching, i believe ...?" 

After that they stayed silence. 

On 6/21/2017 at 15:19, TrueTomHarley said:

This is absolutely incorrect

"If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things.... all evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years... as a young person you will never fulfill any career that this system offers.

If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone"!

Awake! issue of May 22, 1969 on page 15, published by WT

5 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

the mantra:

hehe, all around us we can hear various "the mantra", in JW org also :)))))))))

"education" is not only get informations, knowledge, acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition, the fact or state of knowing; the perception of fact or truth; clear  and certain mental apprehension.

when someone is educated that also including and human, moral values. 

Better world will not come without "educated" people.You can be very honest and truthful, but if you are not knowing, for example, cultivating your garden (to care about ecosystem, soil, water, animals and much more.... you (people in general) will finally destroy quality of life. You can believe in  JWorg as you wish and read magazines as you wish, but that not give assurance that you will not get to the point as we have now in that matter. WT Company, JW org using all modern product and "destroying Earth also as other non JW  believers by using trucks, cars, air-conditions, printing machines, computers etc. All  that would not be possible without pollution industry which support such products we all using. So, please do not put WT religion (and spiritual education) on piedestal of religion supremacy. It is out of place.  

 

thanks for informations!

lot of searching must be valuated

Why no one give some comments on "Christian life and ministry" ,hehehe

On 3/18/2017 at 14:36, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

where trials were held in the city gates for all those inside the city and outside the city to be able to see with their own eyes how Justice was administered.

James has highlighted very important text that GB not obey. If they using "two witness" rule from old and new testament as "principle" for congregational judicial procedure, than that must be in front all congregation. They "pick", what they wish, from bible reports and then doing as they like it.

Completely another is about  Matthew 18:15-17. Here is not about a witness of sin, crime who will support allegation. Here is about witness that you bring to another person with whom you have problem, and this one or two witness will be witness/ess of your words and approach to bro or sis, witness/ess of your conversation about something. NOT a witness on words or deeds of the accused, the suspect that make you endangered, offended, upset, BUT witness/ess of YOUR response to something that made you worry.  

On 5/27/2017 at 15:53, Mike Hora said:

It is more complex

...yes it is. But WT Corporation have no obligations to gives thorough reports to JW members where, how, for what and how much money was used. Members are nothing to WT Corporation, just members which are expected to give donations to "charity".  

11 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

In an organization that puts such value on Bible truth, wouldn't it make sense to discontinue a theory that has proven unreliable and has even mislead JWs? The GB did the opposite. They manufactured a new definition ...

This fine sentences remind me on GB claim how there is  "no purpose to repair this world, participate in activities to improve the world, JW members do not need to participate in them, why repair a sinking ship."

GB doing contrary to the advice that shares to others. Repairing doctrines that is good for nothing, but only to throw in garbage bag.

11 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Its education gives exclusive attention to training the mind, and none (or little) to training the heart,

In the Croatian model of education, elementary school and secondary school have the name, content - upbringing and educational program. And teachers and professors, as they can, as they wish, as they are able doing that, with more or less successful. But, does not the Bible and JW literature say that education and giving upbringing ( the treatment and instruction received by a child from its parents throughout its childhood. ) is the primary task of parents  and not of school teachers?? So, please do  not blame school system for world's problems and  bad behaviour of young people. Parents and old, mature people are "guilty" of that, because they giving bad example to young!!

11 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This is more in the category of picking up job skills.

hahahahaha. If you can't blame deeds you blame owner of deeds :)))) 

similar is with "cross" I comment about it under some other conversation, but will copy/paste my comm here also;  

Reasoning from the Scriptures, page 89, Cross, JWorg library;

The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau·rosʹ], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . . Even amongst the Romans the crux(from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.”—Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.

BUT GO TO ORIGINAL TEXT and see dropped text. WT put dots (...) instead text.

The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau·rosʹ], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. But a modification was introduced as the dominion and usages of Rome extended themselves through Greek speaking countries.

Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole and this always reminded the more prominent part. But from the time that it began to be used as an instrument of punishment a transverse piece of wood was commonly added; not, however, always even than.....The following text continues, describing the types of crosses and the ways in which the convicts were murdered...,others extending their arms on a patibulum. There can be no doubt, however, that the latter sort was the more common and that about the period of the gospel age crucifixion was usually accomplished by suspending the criminal on a cross piece of wood. But this does not itself determine the precise form of the cross; .... The following text continues by describing 3 types of crosses.  —Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376

On 9/14/2017 at 14:00, TrueTomHarley said:

Jehovah's Witnesses do not ignore education but they do redefine it. 

This is interesting thought!

And also is interesting, significant, when in the magazine Awake interviewed highly educated individuals who have become JW. In our language edition of magazine, Croatian, during the interview, they are addressed with personal pronouns, You (plural). How come that brother interview other brother or sister with plural You. :))) for what reason?

-but this  introduction is just for little fun time :))))))

JW redefine education? No, they was redefine the purpose of life today, by telling people what to do and what not. They redefined the "normal" human needs in a way to speak to them, wait, you will be art painter, musician, scientist .... in the near future after Armagedon. Today you need to work some simple job just to have "bread and water", rest money give to Corporation for preaching work. You will be happy that way because bible teaching so.

I am "average" person. Average job. Working since my age of 17, worked various jobs; bookbinder, metal worker, all kind of house jobs that people need, gardener, and last 12 years am janitor in one high school. Last 2 years went to extra education, and last month successfully finished it. Now have diploma for "business secretary" and this last two years working half time as janitor and other half as school administrator. And i like it. Little in school administration with papers and peoples, other part some fixing works, going to town on delivery jobs. Communicate with all sort and age of people. Twice time i was helped and participate in school stage art, performance and went with drama group to few Croatian towns, to Italy, San Remo, take first place twice :)))).  

So called "worldly" education is for all people, not only for "worldly" :))))))))))))) 

On 9/10/2017 at 01:56, Gone Fishing said:

brothers, that there are not many wise in a fleshly way

The problem arises when people who choose  themselves to be "the foolish things of the world" became really foolish in generating doctrines and instructions that have no connection to god. But they convinced themselves how they are wise in the presence of, before God.

So, who can help them? Man? God? No one.  Because why would they listen to "wise man in a flesh"? An with god, god decide to live them in their security of false wisdom to show to others how look the end of human wisdom, again. With or without prefix - "wise" or "foolish"  

17 hours ago, Witness said:

earthly calling vs heavenly calling

i think how number problem of 144000 in the year 1935 give reason to WT leaders of those days to make solution on issue and found verses in bible to confirm idea of heavenly class. Just  opinion that exist among people. If Jesus want rulers (kings and priests) they can do that job living on Earth too. Must not go to heaven. To rule " above, on, upon" the earth. Rulers must not be 500 km in earth orbit be able acting as kings. They can do the same job walking in midst of their subjects. But real relation between 144000 and people must be better and higher than king-subject relationship. But not like in old Israel time, that people must working for kings and their courtiers. :))))))))  give them food, gold, sons and daughters, ahahhaha. You never know, people are perishable goods, especially when they have money and power over  other human. 

Why would God need them in the heaven? They can do the same job on earth too. Jesus as man show how this is possible. He was the ruler, king and priest - walking with his feet on earth, on dust and water. And people liked him :)) 

6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

my name

my Croatian name Srećko in english is Happy, Lucky (Felix) :)))))))))) maybe i will be lucky at the end of life, have to wait to see, ahahhahaaa

7 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Or to some other future job change with name change?

I forgot JHVH. He  changing roles and jobs but still hold same name JHVH.